Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Why Invest In UK Real Estate Now with Urosh Teodorovich

Why Invest In UK Real Estate Now with Urosh Teodorovich

Connect with Urosh:

WhatsApp:+852 6276 8567


About Locations Real Estate:

The UK real estate market has been popular among overseas investors due to their historical stability in politics and economy. But with Brexit, Covid-19, and the global recession, the real estate market has been on the downturn for many years. As the market has shown signs of recovering, are there any opportunities left? Today, we have Urosh to share his view. In this episode, we covered some major key questions that a lot of people have, such as the impact of COVID-19 and how the British National (Overseas) visa scheme impacts the market. 

Urosh Teodorovich is the General Manager at Locations Real Estate. Locations is a Hong Kong-headquartered boutique property agency that offers expert advisory in overseas investments in addition to HK local market real estate services. His team consists of industry experts with extensive experience in the sector which gives clients confidence and peace of mind in making their decisions – whether that’s buying a £9 million penthouse in Central London or upsizing to a new rental property in Sai Kung.

  • Why invest in the UK property market?
  • Which areas to look into?
  • Why invest now?
  • Who are the potential investors?
  • What to keep in mind while investing?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.


Terminology & Source:

BREXIT Referendum: BREXIT is the acronym for British Exit and it refers to the UK’s decision to leave the EU.

Buy-to-let Investment: Buy-to-let investment, also known as invest-to-let is the process in which investors buy properties to rent it out to make profits from tenants’ rents.

BNO [British National Overseas] visa scheme: The BNO visa scheme allows eligible candidates to apply for a residence visa to live, study and work in the UK.

Stamp Duty: Stamp duty is a kind of tax that is imposed in the form of stamps on legal documents by the government while buying a property.

Stamp Duty Holiday: A stamp duty holiday that is supposed to run till March 2021 was announced by chancellor Rishi Sunak, meaning homebuyers in England and Northern Ireland will be exempt from stamp duty when buying homes up to £500,000.


Shout out to our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!


Darren: Hey Urosh, welcome to the show.

Urosh: Hi, everyone, I’m Urosh Teodorovich. I’m the general manager at Locations real estate. Locations is a Hong Kong headquartered boutique property agency which offers expert advisory in overseas investments, as well as also in the Hong Kong local market. Our team consists of industry experts with extensive experience in the sector which of course gives our clients peace of mind in making their decisions. Whether that’s buying a £9 million penthouse in Central London or upsizing to a new rental property in Saikung.

Darren: Yeah, this is a very exciting topic because I’m sure we all know here that the ties between UK and Hong Kong are very strong. And then I was looking for someone from UK to tell us more about what’s going on because there has been a lot of things happening in the UK for the past couple years. And a lot of people are more and more interested in looking to UK investment. So thanks coming in. And thanks for making the effort to be and share with everyone here.

Urosh: My pleasure. Thanks very much for the invitation.

Darren: Yeah. So to start with, for people who might not be familiar with UK, would you mind briefly explaining to the audience the breaches in the UK that oversea real estate investors tend to invest and at the same time, how do you distinguish the area in terms of risk and reward?

Urosh: Sure no problem. Obviously, it’s one of the most important questions that gets asked. I would say broadly speaking, UK investment typically centers on London, it always has – capital city, it makes sense. But in recent years, this has developed into other very important second tier cities. I’d say that after London, I’d say Manchester then Birmingham and Liverpool have been core areas of focus. Now, when you mentioned risk reward, of course, this will depend somewhat on the needs of the individual investor and what their requirements are and in a sense how much they’re willing to expose themselves to risk. So, broadly speaking, let’s say the more blue chip investment areas, so, you know, looking at prime central London so even someone unfamiliar with London would be familiar with places like Knightsbridge and Chelsea and what have you. These sorts of areas on a longer timeline will usually be safe, but they might not have the same percentile game potential is that’s a fringe redevelopment areas. So places like Stratford or Ealing, which are along the cross rail project in London. Or for that same logic, any of the Northern powerhouse cities such as Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, which I’ve already mentioned, but of course, any potential upsets market will likely impact those areas first, and it depends on always, you know, the need to liquidate an asset at short notice. So anywhere where there is always going to be you know, a stronger demand in those kind of blue chip areas, they will be safer but it’s such that they demand higher prices.

Darren: Hmm, that’s kind of cool because like in Hong Kong, right, obviously, we see a lot of real estate opportunities from different places in UK. And like obviously, I think this episode’s focus is more on the big picture and I think maybe in the future like in round two, we can do specific different regions because in real estate the most important thing is, how do we know where or which place has opportunity miles away? So with those areas you just mentioned right, are there any areas you think are overrated or underrated?

Urosh: Well, so I actually mentioned Knightsbridge by name, so that actually brings me a good point into what I say is perhaps the more overrated but I’ll need to explain a little bit more detailed. So the ultra-luxe or what we could also describe as the super prime areas –  these world famous parts of London I mentioned Knightsbridge you Harrods department store is extremely popular with, you know a lot of our Far Eastern buyers who might know that as their key London landmark, more so in Buckingham Palace in some respect. But in these areas, you’ve got prices per square foot which are comparable to Hong Kong’s top residential areas. And yet most of these properties come without gyms with pools or any of these other facilities by comparison. So I would say that these can be seen as somewhat overrated, overrated especially with the prices that they command. But that being said, in the current market conditions transactions are down roughly 53% according to a recent report, and Bill prices in areas like Knightsbridge itself have fallen as much as 33% from the previous peak. I personally think this kind of price drop for the people that really really want to be in these ultra primaries could reinvigorate demand as people start hunting for these ultra-luxe bargains.

On the other hand looking at, let’s say the more underrated side. Now this will be a bit of an interesting one because it’s not so much an area so much as a type of investment I think is a bit underrated. So I’m sure as anyone who has even started to consider looking at overseas investment, they will know that you can’t go to any hotel in Hong Kong on a weekend, perhaps now with the Coronavirus. It’s a little bit different but in normal times, you would go in every single exhibition room, whether one was in the Excelsior, the former Excelsior Hotel in Causeway Bay, all the way to the Mandarin or the Marco Polo on Kowloon side. You can’t go to any exhibition room without there being a property exhibition and that could be Bangkok. Could be London, could be Manchester, could be New York could be LA, Sydney, there were projects all over the world. And I would say that the sheer number of UK developments being sold off plan across Greater China so including, you know, not just Hong Kong, but Shanghai, Beijing, what have you. I think the number of these developments coming out where they’re, you know, of course, every agency that is putting up these projects is going to say that they’ve got the best project in London or the best project in Manchester. And so I know from personal experience speaking to a number of my clients that many have found it difficult to navigate the options available. And this is actually where I think expert advice becomes most important. I would say that because some people have tended to get a bit put off by off plan or a new build investment. I would say that to consider this: If an investor has no intention of ever living or using and living in or using a property for themselves, then I would say that new build projects in both London and in the north of England can often be bought at this exact unusual time with fairly substantial discounts. And these properties also in most cases come with, let’s say 5 to 10 year builders guarantees for the property anywhere in like I said anywhere from five to 10 years depending on the project. Now, given that everything is new in a new built, this makes for a very low hassle investment because landlords over in Hong Kong or Shanghai or Guangzhou or wherever, they don’t need to worry about boilers stopping working, or radiators leaking or old copper wiring that needs to be replaced, or any of these other very real and very important issues that can face buyers who purchase a period property by comparison. So for this reason, I think yes, there’s a lot of different projects out there but with the right advice, choosing the right project can be a very sensible and shouldn’t be I don’t think it should be sidelined as a potential investment option.

Darren: Thanks for the detailed explanation because like I told you before I used to work in the fund, a real estate fund that focuses on UK asset too and I felt that they’re pretty similar when it comes to like UK asset because, you know, there’s a lot of things changing in the past couple years and I think that right now it’s a good time to go in, which obviously we talked about UK market you cannot not talk about Brexit still and what kind of impact – Yeah, I mean, we both know it’s a long impact, but you know, how has it changed since the Brexit has formally confirmed and then from the past and currently your outlook, how does Brexit impact the market in your point of view?

Urosh: So I think there are two ways to look at this. Look, from my personal perspective, I think that Brexit really shook up the market most with the initial referendum back in 2016. Okay, I think that that’s probably where the biggest repercussions felt, let’s say on on the property side, as you know, working within the industry and helping clients to invest overseas. That was the time where we saw the biggest impact that would affect your average investor, let’s put it that way. I mean, since then, I would say that the most major effect that’s been happening, you know, that has happened or that you know, will continue to be the case is that the GBP has been kept extremely low. There’s a lot of pessimism about the UK, you know, about its economy, about the political future about trading opportunities and so forth. And as a result, it’s kept the sterling at a very low level essentially for the last four years, and I would say that on top of all of the excellent reasons that there are to invest in the UK, interestingly enough, one source, I’d recommend Sables, they’ve got an excellent research team. And on their blogs recently, they’ve been doing a series of posts, I’d recommend any one of my clients or anyone interested in this aspect to go check them out. Because they talk about the price of acquiring, holding and selling properties at off the top of my head, I believe it’s $650,000 US dollars equivalent, $2 million US dollars equivalent, and then I think they do an ultra-luxe series of five or ten, I can’t quite remember the top one. But this is a very useful guide because what it shows is that Britain typically and London specifically ranks in the cheapest to buy, hold and sell of any of the major world cities I mean, when you think about Hong Kong stamp duty, it’s London, even at the top tier for luxury properties, it’s a veritable bargain. But I would say that from the Brexit perspective, you’ve got this currency play angle. So, on top of all of the other reasons to invest in the UK, you know, ultimately, it’s stood through many different issues historically. And, you know, Brexit is just whether one is for or against, it is simply seen by most as just another thing that will be you know, that will be addressed, handled, and that ultimately is just another step on the sort of route forward, she’s a bit of a cliche but yes. 

Darren: Yeah, that’s good. You know I now think time is this right Brexit is one other variables, how about COVID-19 because I remember that a lot of people I know who works for UK deal, they said that like, “Oh before Covid, it’s been getting really popular and then the market died again from COVID-19.” So it has been a while already, and then how has the virus impacted in the real estate market? And then where are we right now do you think?

Urosh: Well, I’m always happy to say this to clients right now is I get to give you some news with a big smile, which is that for a rare situation, I would say that really Coronavirus has in the only possible small benefit I can see has given a situation where it is much more of a buyers market at this time. I think that you mentioned about your own contacts. I’ve seen exactly the same thing. I’m calling you know my associates in London from when I was in Hong Kong or calling you know, and now seeing on the ground here in London the situation. I would say that very simply it froze the market. I think when it went into lockdown down a lot of people were really excited they were talking about this Boris bounce, you know that the market was bouncing back, transactions were going up and there was a real atmosphere of positivity earlier this year. Then unfortunately of course, Coronavirus happened, it’s caused huge impacts not just to the UK but worldwide. And I think that the simplest way to describe this is even deals which were quite far along were ground to a complete standstill. And I think that many sellers as a result, you know, let’s put it this way. They all thought, “Okay, fine. It’ll be one month, maybe of lock down.” Then one month passes, “Okay, maybe two months” and I don’t think anyone anticipated it would quite go on as long as it has. Why is this good news for any potential buyers? Well, a lot of sellers are increasingly motivated to sell for different reasons. And as such, I would say that buyers coming in from overseas are in a slightly more emboldened position in that they, you know, I think until recently, Hong Kong had a much less detrimental Coronavirus situation than comparable other Western European or even, you know, sort of North American locations. But what I would say is that with these buyers coming in from Hong Kong, they have the opportunity now to be quite aggressive in their offering. And I think that that is the discount levels that I’ve been able to achieve off of asking price for my clients is something that I haven’t seen. I don’t think I’ve seen this sort of level in the last five to eight years easily.

Darren: I see. Yeah, you know, I found a lot of people are more urgent recently. I think they talked about a lot about the stamp duty changes. And would you also elaborate on that as well and how it will impact the real estate market.

Urosh: So, the way that this stamp duty holiday works is actually very simple. It is a measure that was introduced to boost the transaction volume, which I actually mentioned earlier that there was a recent Coutts, which is the bank that they produced a report saying that transaction volumes were down in the region of 53%. Now, obviously, in a move to bid to increase in a bid sorry to increase the number of transactions in the market, the Conservative government here has implemented this stamp duty holiday. Now this applies to any properties which are purchased but which complete before the 31st of March, on or before the 31st of March 2020. Now this I would say as as expert advice I would say that this is great for anyone looking at particularly into Manchester or Birmingham or Liverpool because at £500,000 of course you could find different properties in London but they might not be as centrally located but with a budget of £500,000 pounds really you can have the sort of top tier ultra prime of Manchester Birmingham or what have you. Now, these properties up to half a million pounds sterling are completely Stamp Duty Free provide they complete so that means the project complete and it’s ready to live in before the 31st of March 2020. However, and this is an important however that I think is a distinction a lot of you know buyers in Hong Kong or across Greater China would be interested to know. Unless you are a first time buyer looking to live in that property and are a British subject, overseas buyers, and or second home buyers are what they call landlords, so buy to let investors will still have to pay the usual additional 3% stamp duty on their acquisition. So, it’s important because I would say that people telling investors that it is completely without stamp duty, even if they’re, you know, an investor based in Guangzhou, who is never going to live there and just wants to rent it out. There will still be some stamp duty requirement. But that’s not to say that they aren’t saving a pretty substantial amount of money by purchasing within this window. So as a result, I would say all transactions that we’ve been doing for the most part have been below £500,000 and in the north of England, but that has been for buyers wanting to take advantage of the stamp duty aspect.

Darren: I see. No, it’s good, because like you clarify a lot of things that I have questions for too. And then, you know, we both know, I’m in Hong Kong and you cannot not ask us this question is that how would the new the BNO (British National Overseas) visa scheme like, you know, potentially impact the markets because I think that’s a topic that I told my friends about asking you this question, they’re like, “Oh, my God, this you have to ask, I don’t know what hell is going on.” So would you like to elaborate on that?

1-2 minutes cut off, Urosh re-answered question

Urosh: Sure, actually, I’d be very happy to answer this question because of course it’s something on everyone’s minds at the moment, the newspapers, both in Hong Kong and in the UK are reporting heavily on this new BNO scheme due to start next January. We ourselves, Locations Real Estate has partnered with a top immigration solicitor here in the UK to offer initially free consultation and then advice on the quickest path to take on to Japan. But I would say that the simplest way to describe what the impact of that will be as far as I see it, is that having spoken to a number of my clients and especially some of the more conservative ones, because of course, this is a political hot topic. I think the international political wrangling of this, you know, we don’t have – I wish I had one but I don’t have a crystal ball. I can’t see in the future as to what different you know international superpass will do. But assuming that the BNO visa program is able to go ahead, I would say that even on a conservative basis, my clients anticipate in the region of 100,000 to Hong Kong, Chinese families, who would likely take advantage of this and as a result, relocate to the UK. Now, if you figure that the average Hong Kong Chinese buyer from I can say anecdotally, from my experience, but I, you know, many of my colleagues and I have always prepared notes on this, generally speaking, Hong Kong Chinese buyer goes in for £750,000 up to around 1.2 million, if they’re buying a buy to let investment in London. Now, if you times, you know, even the midpoint of those numbers by 100,000, it starts to become quite a bit dramatic number, and that’s the amount of money that is potentially going to be coming into the UK market. And, you know, Hong Kong people, I’m guilty of this myself having, you know, been born and bred in Hong Kong and I’m living there for three generations, we are used to a city where we have very close public transport where everything’s easy to get to. And I would say that we expect that anywhere we’d really want to go, we should be able to get there in about 15 minutes. London of course, it’s very massive geographically so it’s quite different. As such, I think the biggest impact is going to be that Prime areas, very convenient locations, areas which are desirable, are probably going to be targeted quite heavily by these incoming buyers. Now, that said, Hong Kong buyers, in my experience, are extremely savvy and they’re very good at sniffing out a good deal. And I would say that, you know, I mentioned that I thought that super prime in some cases was overrated, and I stand by that, but I would say that on the other hand, being clever and navigating the market such that, you know, if you know that a road over here will be, you know, £3000 per square foot, but just a seven minute walk over this way. It might be, you know, £1005 or £2000, or what have you, you can actually buy tactically and end up living in some of London’s very very good postcodes without having to pay that top dollar for it. And I would say that in some respects you know, what Locations have been doing is creating that link between London and Hong Kong such that even for buyers who are less familiar with it, we can explain what London is like in terms of Hong Kong and I think that having that you know, that local market knowledge on both sides is incredibly important.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. I think that’s the struggle with investing in UK because people have a very emotional tie, people in Hong Kong and at the same time people keep forgetting that it’s not Hong Kong. So there are a lot things that it makes sense to us in Hong Kong, how it works, it doesn’t necessarily make sense in UK and they need someone on the ground that actually understands UK to explain to people in detail like, hey, maybe if you’re living there, it’d be different than you actually investing or how is it like, what is it going to be like and what should you do about it, which comes to my next question right, what advice and tips can you give the audience if they’re interested in investing in the UK properties, regardless if they’re from Hong Kong or China or somewhere else?

Urosh: So I know this might seem like a cliche or like a marketing pitch from someone in the industry, but honestly, I can’t stress this enough. Have a good agent. I think making sure that you have a good rapport with, you know, whomever you have as your agent and making sure that they understand your personal requirements and objectives. Too many agents will send absolutely anything to all of their clients all the time and you know, the kind of hopefully something will stick approach. In most cases, you know, I’ve spoken to a lot of my clients and their previous experience was that agents would send them anything and anything and anything. And eventually, the hope was that the client would actually choose something because they were exhausted not because they found something they actually wanted. This is what I would describe, frankly, as a bad agent, but unfortunately, it’s a very common practice. Now, from the client side, I’d say that a tip for what they can do as well as themselves is to communicate, to be clear with your agent. Always ask as many questions as possible. And this might seem crazy, but be as specific as you can. I would be from my experience working you know, in this sector and especially dealing with ultra high net worths, where they tend to get the best opportunities at £25, £30, £35 million mark, the reason they find these amazing properties and they find the ones that are right for them is because they’re willing to spend an hour, an hour and a half, two hours, just talking about what they want and what more importantly, they don’t want. And a good agent will listen to all of this, take this all down. And we’ll never put a property in front of a client that they don’t think that they’ll like. And the very best agents will actually be able to say, “Look, this isn’t quite what you – this isn’t quite what you said you were looking for, but I think you’ll like it, have a look,  what do you think?” And that kind of relationship is totally invaluable. And frankly, it really doesn’t matter whether a client is buying for £200,000 in Liverpool, or whether a client is buying for £50 million  in London. At the end of the day they should should be getting the same quality of service and they should also be getting the same quality of advice.

Darren: That’s really good because I think that’s what Denzity also wants to do, because we felt that there’s a lot of bad players out there. There’s good players, great players. There’s a lot of bad players and a lot of people keep forgetting that you have options. And hopefully someone like you – we’ll find more people like you to help more clients and help more people because reality is that, you know, it’s very hard sometimes to understand these concepts because real estate is not something that everyone knows about it. Everyone has a familiar experience with it. So I just want to say thanks for your time because there are a lot of things that even in my head I might want to go into deep detail. But before we go right, would you mind telling the audience how they can find you and reach out to you for more details and more surface?

Urosh: Certainly, so if you’re interested in finding out more about investment opportunities in the UK, or if you’d simply like to arrange a free real estate consultation, please feel free to contact me directly. I’m Urosh, my number is +85262768567. And I can be reached by that by caller, by WhatsApp. Or you can email me at

Darren: Yeah, and I have everything in the show notes. And then obviously, I’ll include everything you just said. And I want to say thanks for your time. I’m sure a lot of people who watch this will appreciate your insight because like, even a lot of things you said before, it’s different than other guests we have. You’re very detailed in explaining to people and really want them to understand what’s going on so I hope that you’ll come back for round two in the future and then again, thanks for your time.

Urosh: It’s absolutely my pleasure and I look forward to the next time we’re able to speak on a maybe even more specific topic.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much.

Urosh: My pleasure. Thank you very much. Speak soon. Bye bye.

Darren: Bye!


Darren :嗨,Urosh,歡迎你來表演。

Urosh: 大家好,我是Urosh Teodorovich。我是Locations公司的總經理。Locations是一家總部設在香港房地產代理機构,為海外投資與香港投資者當地市場。我們的團隊由行業專家組成,在這一領域擁有豐富經驗,這當然給我們的客戶帶來信任。無論是在倫敦市中心買一棟價值900萬英鎊的頂層公寓,還是在西貢的一處新的出租房產。

Darren :是的,這是一個非常令人興奮的話題,因為我相信我們都知道,英國和香港的關係非常緊密。然後我在找一個英國專家告訴我們更多關於過去幾年英國發生了很多事情。很多人越來越有興趣尋求英國投資。所以謝謝你來。感謝你努力與每一個人分享。


Darren :是的。首先,對於那些可能不熟悉英國的人,你能不能簡單地向聽眾解釋一下,在英國,海外房地產投資者傾向於投資,同時,你如何區分風險和回報方面的地區?

Urosh: 沒問題。顯然,這是被問到的最重要的問題之一。我要說的是英國投資通常以倫敦為中心,它總是有-首都,這是有合理的。但近年來,這已經發展成為重要二線都市。我想說的是,在倫敦之後,曼徹斯特、伯明罕和利物浦都是焦點所在。現在,當你提到風險報酬時,當然,這在某種程度上取決於個人投資者的需求以及他們的要求是什麼他們願意冒多大的風險。所以,廣義地說,讓我們假設更多的藍籌股投資領域,所以,你知道,看看倫敦市中心即使是不熟悉倫敦的人也會對騎士橋和切爾西之類的地方很熟悉。這些領域的時間跨度很長通常是安全的,但他們可能沒有相同的百分比特遊戲潜力,因為這是一個邊緣再開發地區。所以像斯特拉特福德或伊林,在倫敦的交叉鐵路項目沿線。或者按照同樣的邏輯,任何北方像曼徹斯特、利物浦、伯明罕這樣的大城市,我已經提到過了,但當然,任何潜在的混亂市場都可能首先影響這些地區,而且這取決於是否需要在短時間內清算資產。所以任何地方都有要知道,在這些藍籌股領域,需求更大,他們會更安全,但他們要求更高的價格。

Darren :嗯,這有點酷,因為像香港一樣,對吧,很明顯,我們在英國看到了很多不同地方的房地產機會。很明顯,我認為這一集的重點是大局,我想也許未來像第二輪,我們可以做具體的不同區域,因為在房地產領域,最重要的是,我們如何知道幾英里以外的地方或哪一個地方有機會?所以對於你剛才提到的那些領域,你是否認為有些領域被高估或低估了?


Darren :謝謝你的詳細解釋,因為[00:08:20]就像之前告訴過你我在基金工作那樣,這是一家房地產基金,也關注英國資產,我覺得他們在喜歡英國資產方面非常相似因為,你知道,在過去的幾年裏,很多事情都在發生變化,我認為現在是進入的好時機,很明顯,我們談到了英國市場,你不能不談英國脫歐還有什麼影響-是的,我的意思是,我們都知道這是一個長期的影響,但是你知道,自從英國脫歐正式確認之後,它發生了什麼變化從您過去和現在的展望來看,您認為英國脫歐對市場有何影響?


Darren :是的,那很好。你知道我現在認為時間是正確的脫歐是另一個變數,那麼COVID-19呢,因為我記得我認識的很多為英國協定工作的人,他們說,“哦,在COVID之前,它變得非常流行,然後市場又因COVID-19而死亡。”所以已經有一段時間了,然後病毒是如何影響進來的房地產市場?你覺得我們現在在哪裡?


Darren :我明白了。是啊,你知道,我發現最近很多人都比較急。我想他們談了很多關於印花稅的變化。您能否也詳細說明一下這一點,以及它將如何影響房地產市場。

Urosh: 所以,這個印花稅假期的運作管道其實很簡單。這是一項旨在促進交易量,我之前提到過,最近有一家銀行發佈了一份報告,稱交易量下降了53%。現在,很明顯,為了新增為了新增市場交易數量,保守黨政府實施了這個印花稅假期。現在這個適用於已購買但在2020年3月31日或之前完工的任何物業。現在作為專家的建議,我想說這對任何人來說都是非常好的尤其是在曼徹斯特、伯明罕或利物浦,因為50萬英鎊當然可以在倫敦找到不同的房產,但它們可能不是位於中心位置,但預算為500,000英鎊,您可以擁有頂級的房產曼徹斯特,伯明罕,或者其他什麼地方。現在,這些高達50萬英鎊的房產完全是印花稅免費提供他們完成,這意味著項目完成,並準備在2020年3月31日前入住。然而,這是一個重要的不過,我認為這是一個區別,很多香港或大中華區的買家都有興趣知道。除非你是希望居住在該房產的首次購房者,是英國人,海外買家,和/或第二套住房的購買者就是他們所說的房東,所以買房出租的投資者仍然需要支付通常額外的3%的印花稅他們的收購。所以,這一點很重要,因為我要說的是,人們告訴投資者這一點完全沒有印花稅,即使他們,你知道,是一個在廣州的投資者,永遠不會住在那裡,只想租出去。還會有一些印花稅要求。但這並不是說他們在這個視窗內購買並沒有節省相當可觀的錢。囙此,我會假設我們所做的所有交易大部分都低於500,000英鎊,而且在英格蘭北部,但是對於那些想要購買的買家來說印花稅方面的優勢。

Darren :我明白了。不,這很好,因為像你一樣澄清了很多我也有疑問的事情。然後,你知道,我們都知道,我在香港,你不能不問我們這個問題是,新的英國國民海外簽證計畫會對市場影響?因為我想這是我告訴我的朋友們要問你這個問題的一個話題,他們會說,“哦,天哪,你必須問這個,我不知道到底發生了什麼事。”所以你想詳細說明一下嗎?

Urosh:當然,我很樂意回答這個問題,因為現在每個人都在想這個問題,香港和英國的報紙都在大量報導這項定於明年1月開始實施的BNO新計畫。我們自己,Locations Real Estate已經與英國的一比特頂級移民律師合作,提供最初的免費諮詢,然後就前往最快路徑提供建議。但是我想說的是,就我看來,最簡單的方式來描述這將產生什麼樣的影響,就是在與我的一些客戶,特別是一些比較保守的客戶交談後,當然,這是一個政治熱門話題。我認為國際政治爭論,你知道,我們沒有-我希望我有一個,但我沒有一個水晶球。我不知道將來會發生什麼不同的是,你知道國際超級通行證可以。但假設BNO簽證計畫能够在前面,我要說,即使是保守的基礎上,我的客戶預計,香港的中國家庭大約有10萬人,他們可能會這樣做的好處是,遷移到英國。現在,如果你認為香港中國買家的平均水準,根據我的經驗,但我,你知道,我和我的許多同事一直都在準備這方面的筆記,一般來說,香港的中國買家出價75萬英鎊以上如果他們在倫敦買了一個買一賣的投資,大約120萬。現在,如果你乘以,你知道,甚至是那些數位的中點到了100,000,這個數位開始變得有點戲劇性,這就是可能進入英國市場的資金量。而且,你們知道,香港人,我自己對此感到內疚,你們知道,在香港出生和長大,我在那裡生活了三代,我們是過去是一個公共交通非常便利的都市。我想說的是,無論我們想去哪裡,我們應該能在15分鐘內趕到那裡。倫敦當然,它的地理位置非常大,所以很不一樣。囙此,我認為最大的影響是在黃金地段,非常便利的位置,理想的區域,很可能會成為重點目標這些新來的買家。現在,也就是說,以我的經驗,香港買家非常精明善於嗅出一筆好買賣。我要說的是,你知道,我提到我認為在某些情况下,超級素數被高估了,我堅持不過,我想說的是,從另一個角度來說,如果你知道這裡會有一條路,每平方英尺3,000英鎊,但從這條路走七分鐘就到了。它可能是,你知道的,1005英鎊或2000英鎊,或者你擁有什麼,你實際上可以在策略上購買,最終住在倫敦一些非常好的郵遞區號,而不必為此支付最高的一美元。我想說的是尊敬的各位,您知道,我們在倫敦和香港之間建立了聯系,即使是對那些不太熟悉的買家來說熟悉這一點,我們可以解釋一下倫敦在香港的情况,我認為,擁有了這一點,雙方的本地市場知識非常重要。

Darren :是的,當然。我認為這就是在英國投資的困難,因為人們有一種非常情緒化的聯系,在香港的人,同時人們總是忘記這不是香港。所以在香港有很多事情對我們來說是有意義的,它是如何運作的,在英國不一定有意義,他們需要一個在當地真正瞭解英國的人向人們詳細解釋,比如,嘿,如果你住在那裡,可能會和你實際投資不同,或者投資會怎麼樣,會是什麼樣子你該怎麼辦呢?我的下一個問題是,如果聽眾有興趣投資英國房產,不管他們來自香港、中國還是其他地方,你能給他們什麼建議和建議?


Darren :這真的很好,因為我認為Denzity也希望這樣做,因為我們覺得外面有很多壞經紀人。有優秀的經紀人,偉大的經紀人。有很多不好的經紀人,很多人總是忘記你有選擇。希望有人喜歡你-我們會找到更多像你這樣的人來幫助更多的客戶,幫助更多的人,因為事實是,你知道,有時候很難理解這些概念,因為房地產不是每個人都知道的東西它。每個人都有熟悉的經驗。所以我只想對你的時間表示感謝,因為有很多事情,即使在我的腦海裏,我也可能想深入探討。但在我們走之前,你介意告訴我觀眾如何找到您,並向您尋求更多細節和更多表面資訊?


Darren :是啊,我在節目記錄裏都有。很明顯,我會把你剛才說的都包括進去。我想感謝你抽出時間。我相信很多看這個節目的人都會欣賞你的洞察力,因為就像,即使是你之前說的很多話,也和我們的其他客人不一樣。你非常詳細地向人們解釋,真的很想讓他們明白發生了什麼,所以我希望你以後會回來參加第二輪,然後再次回來,謝謝你的時間。


Darren :是的,當然。好吧,非常感謝。


Market Updates 未分類

Featured on am730: The lack of information in overseas real estate investing and how to solve it

Original post on [In Chinese]:

The lack of information in overseas real estate investing and how to solve it

Despite being affected by the corona virus outbreak and the increased social distancing restrictions, Hong Kong investors continue to look for overseas real estate investment opportunities vigorously. This growing demand is not going away anytime soon.

In 2019, Singapore held over 230 overseas property exhibits and Kuala Lumpur featured 118 exhibitions. Shockingly, a report published by Soho App found that Hong Kong hosted over 1,626 overseas property exhibitions in 2019 (an average of more than 31 every week)! The unprecedented amount of exhibitions in Hong Kong clearly show the Hong Kong investors’ desire for overseas properties has become a necessity instead of just an investment tool or an immigration tool for asset allocation. In this period of uncertainty, Hong Kong people are more inquired about emigration and homeownership overseas. It is critical to ask,  “can I trust the sources handed to me?” If research is not done thoroughly, investments might not turn out as expected. 

Especially for busy people, looking for overseas real estate opportunities is very troublesome. Conducting research and due diligence take a lot of time and effort to ensure the information is reliable. Besides knowing who is trustworthy (such as real estate agents and the developers), every investor has many worries, uncertainties, and questions while looking for the right properties for them. “Should I look into the Malaysian real estate market or the Vietnam real estate market?” “What taxes do I have to pay if I want to invest in the United Kingdom?” “Where is the best place for me to buy a second home in Canada?” and many more. Even professional investors have a tough time finding trustworthy information in real estate! These enormous pains need to be solved. This is where technology can help to transform the industry.

PropTech (Property Technology) is a new global movement that uses technology to create new opportunities in real estate. By utilizing PropTech, investors can get more information, tips, and insights by gaining direct access to a community of industry experts when searching for their real estate investment – saving time and effort when sourcing information and conducting due diligence. With experts’ knowledge and insights, investors can make better-informed decisions like never before. According to the KPMG Global PropTech Survey, 86% of real estate leaders agree that PropTech brings more opportunities for investments through more accurate predictions and reliable information. Getting investors closer to experts can unlock their full potential and succeed in real estate investments – both locally and abroad.

Denzity (, a PropTech Hong Kong startup, is a free online resource for investors to learn, network, and find solutions for their overseas real estate investment search by gaining access to a global real estate community of industry experts. By utilizing the technology of the platform, investors can broadcast their questions related to overseas real estate investing to the community. Then, they can get answers directly from real estate experts of the right domain expertise (such as professional real estate agents, developers, world-class investors, advisors and more). By bringing investors closer to experts worldwide, Denzity helps investors to get a better sense of  where to invest, what to invest, and how to invest in real estate – saving time while gaining better insights. The more you know, the less fear you’ll have to look for the right property.



在2019年,新加坡及馬來西亞分別舉行了超過230場及118場的海外物業展銷會;反觀香港,根據蘇豪應用程式(Soho App)顯示,香港同年竟然舉行高達1626場海外物業展覽會,相當於每星期31場!歷史新高的數據清晰反映香港買家不再視購買海外房地產為投資工具,或為移民而安排的資產配資工具,而是他們真正有海外置業的需求。在這嚴峻時期,香港人對移民與海外置業需求殷切。在置業過程中,買家必須經常提出這個問題:「我獲得的資訊可信嗎?」「如果事前沒有做足研究,投資回報會否不符預期?」


Proptech (Property Technology, 房地產科技)是通過運用科技,在房產市場創造新投資機會的一個全新全球運動。運用房產科技後,買家可省去不少時間和精神,便可直接聯繫行業專家的圈子,獲取更多資料、貼士及遠景,以進行盡職審查。有了專家的真知灼見,買家便可以作出最佳決定。根據KPMG全球房產科技調查,86%的房產領袖同意,通過房產科技通提供的準確預測與可靠資訊,能夠為買家帶來更多機會。一旦買家和行業專家連接上,就能夠在本地及海外市場釋放所有投資的潛力。

Denzity (是一家香港房產初創公司,為買家提供學習、聯絡和解答海外房產投資疑問的免費網上資訊平台。通過運用平台上的科技,投資者可以提出有關海外房產投資的疑問,然後會有專業的房產投資員(如專業房產經紀、承建商、頂尖投資員、顧問等)解答。通過連結你和全球的專業人士,Denzity讓買家更知道自己想投資什麼、投資哪裡,以及怎麼投資。既省時,又能獲得更好的意見,認清需要,無懼投資風險。

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Real Estate Tokenization: Everything You Need To Know with Jason Chan

Real Estate Tokenization: Everything You Need To Know with Jason Chan

Connect with Jason:




Real estate tokenization has been a popular topic in the real estate sector. It can potentially be a new medium by which everyday investors can overcome the traditional barriers to enter the real estate market.

In this episode, Jason provides an in-depth overview of how real estate tokenization works.

Jason Chan is an associate in the funds and financial regulatory team in Sidley Austin Hong Kong. He focuses on investment funds formation transactions, including real estate funds and tokenized funds, as well as a diverse range of financial regulatory matters related to funding managers and Fintech companies. Notably, his team worked on Asia’s first tokenized fund.

  • What is Real Estate Tokenization?
  • What are the pros and cons of tokenization?
  • What are the things to be aware of?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.


Terminology & Source:

Security Token Offering: While both STOs and ICOs have the same process of making an offer of tokens or cryptocurrencies to the public, STO is more secure because the platforms need to abide by the laws and regulations, guaranteeing security.

Real Estate Security Token Offering: STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets.

Initial Coin Offering: Initial coin offering is the process in which cryptocurrencies are sold for a limited period of time in order to raise funds for a project.

Tokenized funds: Tokenized funds are capital funds that have been tokenized with the use of blockchain technology.

Crowdfunding: Crowdfunding is the way in which a new business or organization reach their target amount by collecting small amounts of money from a large number of individuals in return for a profit or some benefit. It typically takes place on the internet.–what-you-need-to-know

Real Estate Crowdfunding: Real Estate Crowdfunding is when real estate firms collect capitals by crowdfunding. It allows investors to become a shareholder of the property by spending only a little amount of money and without going through the hassle of any middleman. For companies, it’s an easy way to raise a handsome capital which would otherwise be difficult to extort.

Real Estate Peer To Peer Lending: Real Estate P2P enables borrowers to borrow money for real estate projects, directly from the investors or lenders without having a bank involved. The investors can own a small share in the invested property and get a good percentage of annual return.

Peer to Peer Lending: Commonly known as P2P, peer to peer lending platforms connect investors to parties who are looking for a loan without going through any traditional financial institution such as a bank or a middleman.

Digital security: Digital security tools let you keep all your online info protected from an intruder. The protected items can be anything starting from your personal info to your banking info, and even the software you use.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of blockchain technology is designed as such so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

Distributed ledger: Unlike blockchain, the records within a distributed ledger do not have to be in blocks or in chains. This database can replicate and share data across the world and without having a central administrator. A blockchain is a form of Distributed Ledger Technology(DLT).

Fractionalization: Fractionalization refers to the concept of having shared ownership of the same asset or property, as well as splitting the benefit as per the ownership amount that comes out of the property.

Smart contract: Smart Contract computer programs ease the process of digitally verifying different bits of a contract. It does not require a middleman and is comparatively inexpensive and time-efficient.

Securities & Futures Commission Of Hong Kong: SFC is responsible for maintaining and securing the future industry by promoting market regulations.

SFC Type 1 License: Dealing in securities. Examples: Trading /broking stock options for clients,

trading bonds for clients, buying / selling mutual funds and unit trusts for clients, placing and underwriting of securities.

Singapore Regulatory Authority MAS: MAS works as Singapore’s central bank as well as its financial regulatory authority.

Real Estate Tokenization Whitepaper:


Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!


Darren: Hey, Jason, how’s it going?

Jason: Good. How are you? 

Darren: Good. You know, as I said just now it’s like, very hectic. But you know, this is important because a lot of people, obviously have a lot of question with real estate STO, STO as a whole. And I’m sure someone like you will give people a better idea of what exactly is going on and down with the technicality behind that. So people who doesn’t know who you are, would you mind telling them what you do and the work that you’re working on?

Jason: Yeah, sure. So I’m Jason Chan. I’m an Associate at Sidley Austin, focusing on funds and financial regulatory. So my practice focuses on investments on formation transactions, which includes real estate funds, of course, and tokenized funds, as well as a diverse range of financial regulatory matters related to fund managers and FinTech companies. So my team has worked on Asia’s first tokenized fund and we’ve also recently assisted a client in launching their tokenized quants, hedge fund investing in currency.

Darren: I see. So for people who doesn’t understand about the whole question of ownership segment, right, what does real estate tokenization mean and how is it different than like real estate, crowdfunding or real estate peer to peer?

Jason: Yeah so in short, tokenization generally means moving traditional non-digital securities to a digital form using the blockchain technology and real estate tokenization specifically means that enabling investments in the form of digital tokens backed by real estate in the real world. So, these tokens can represent either equity that economic interest or revenue stream generated from the real estate asset. At the core of tokenization is as I mentioned, blockchain technology which is a type of distributed ledger where you secure identical copies of data across a network of authorized stakeholders, and we can leverage the secure immutable policies of blockchain technology for the tokenization, which can facilitate additional fractional ownership with secure transaction records and also very quick settlement process. So there are a few kind of like advantages of tokenization which includes like fractionalization, which lowers the barriers of entry for investments, operational efficiency, data transparency and most importantly for most of the investor, liquidity. So, I mean, like in terms of difference between real estate crowdfunding and real estate tokenization, while both of them allow for fractionalization of traditionally big ticket investments such as real estate, it lowers the the barriers of entry and also democratize the whole access of real estate asset. So the main differences between the two are basically threefold. So first of all, unlike tokenized real estate, there’s no liquidity in real estate crowdfunding. So investors are often unable to treat these investments on the secondary market and there’s no exit option for investors. So, for tokenized real estate, you can, the investors can often trade these tokens with directly b2b to other investors or they can trade some of them when they are listed in an exchange, they can trade it on an exchange. Second of all, real estate crowdfunding does not provide for the operational efficiency enjoyed by tokenization via the use of blockchain technology. For example, the blockchain technology can allow you to use smart contract for automation for certain compliances and also post issuance process, such as dividend distribution. And thirdly, Real Estate Crowdfunding is usually just simply crowdfunding of equity of that interest in rate estate. But for tokenization, you can basically tokenize anything like it can be other aspects of real estate such as revenue stream and also economic economic interest from real estate assets. 

Darren: So it sounds like the real estate security token offering is actually like a 2.0 crowdfunding then, am I correct? 

Jason: Yeah, yes, basically. 

Darren: Yeah. I see. So what are the key elements to make a real estate tokenization work? 

Jason: Yeah, so other than, of course, the real estate asset itself, and also the asset owner. The other elements are all key players in real estate. Tokenization includes, of course, the technology platform provider, which is like the guide who actually knows the blockchain and provides the technology platform so you can move the interests of the real estate onto the blockchain. So that’s, of course the most fundamental thing and of course, I’m a lawyer so I’m going to say a lawyer is a key thing in real estate. 

Darren: Just don’t forget that.

Jason: Yeah, yeah. Never forget that. It’s very important to ensure that legal documentation reflects the commercial intention of the investors and also the issuer. Administrators are also very important, they handle all the administrative methods, which are really annoying, such as the registered members subscription and etc. Tech advisor, they provide very good advice as to how to structure it the most tech efficient way, or the security token issuance. And finally, of course, because it’s dealing with real estate, we need a real estate valuer. Who can value the underlying real estate asset for the issuer.

Darren: Well, you know, I’ve been hearing about real estate tokenization for many, many years, but it doesn’t seem like the industry has much, you know, cases or things that are going on. What’s the reason behind that? Or I’m sleeping under a rock, like, I just want to know what’s going on there. 

Jason: Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. So there hasn’t been a whole lot of real estate tokenization. There are a few outside of Asia but those are mostly very small projects and also usually for very private investors. So, I think the main two main reasons for real estate tokenization not being as popular as it should be is first of all, the incomplete ecosystem and infrastructure. So, generally speaking the tokenization ecosystem and infrastructure globally I think is not fully developed yet. This may be due to just very unclear restrictive laws and regulations, it can be a lack of expertise or talent or simply that there is insufficient amount of players in the market due to a lack of interest or interest in the new industry because the whole blockchain and tokenization industry is relatively new. So, a lot of things are still being developed. Second of all, I think that there’s currently a lack of investor or financial industry players interested and confident. So, larger traditional institutional investors, and financial industry players, I’m not exactly comfortable with the concept of security tokens, nor blockchain so that they’re still very skeptical about anything that’s blockchain, anything that’s related to cryptocurrency. However, during these months, especially, I think they are absurd trying to offset the market and there has been more interest from in-q incumbent financial industry players, more high net worth individuals, family offices, and also tech companies who are getting into the scene.

Darren: I see, yeah, I was gonna ask you too because we’re like recovering from COVID and the recession. Does Covid help or worsen the tokenization potential?

Jason: Yeah, I think it actually does help speed up the whole interest in adaptation of real estate tokenization. So I think there are two reasons. So first of all, because economic activities are slowing down these days, asset managers and investors have more time to explore new ways they can manage their investments, with more flexibility. And one of the options out there being tokenization. So everyone kind of like, has more time to actually not do the deals and actually look at new ways of doing deals. And more importantly, I think during the economic downturn, many investors are looking for exit option for the investments, but they’re not able to do so at the moment because of the illiquid nature of their of certain investments such as, like, if they invest in private equity fund real estate or real estate funds they have a long lockup period or they can only usually withdraw when it’s the end of the term of the fund. So now they are looking at ways where they’re resisting ways that they can easily exit and build the interest, the investment in the future. And organization is definitely one of the more attractive options available.

Darren: I see. So going back to one of the questions I just asked you, and you kind of covered it, right. You know, how you talk about, like, a lot of investors are not looking at it yet, and a lot of players are missing. So it’s not only today, it’s like a three, four things are missing. So in your point of view, how is the ecosystem of tokenization at the moment? What else is missing? And what kind of parties are involved in order to make everything happen?

Jason: Yeah, so I think for the time being, like, as I mentioned, the ecosystem infrastructure of real estate tokenization, it’s really at its early stage and is far from complete or mature like a traditional counter, like financial counterparts. For example, in Hong Kong, there’s yet to be a regulator or licensed asset trading platform approved by the Hong Kong securities regulator, so the SMC. And in Singapore, the regulator approves traditional trading platforms backed by the Singaporean government. But generally there’s a lack of interest in security token issuance. So, I mean, like in different jurisdiction, they do different things. And I think, also, like many market players are still warming up to this relatively new technology and way or fundraising. In terms of the parties getting involved in order to list the project, I mean, in addition to that, the few that I mentioned just now like the technology platform lawyer, administrator, tech advisor, and real estate, valuer, I think, of course, the most important thing is the investor. So the investor needs to be interested in order for people to stop thinking about issuance of real estate tokens, and that’s the main driver for I mean, like money is the main driver for most businesses. So, yeah, I think that’s still kind of missing at the moment.

Darren: I see. So all of that right, obviously, followup this debt, you know, where are we at in Hong Kong with the RESTO, you know, there is a security token offering. And then, Sharif, is there any projects going on? Or should we see any product listings coming up soon?

Jason: Yeah, so in Hong Kong, so I’ll cover basically Hong Kong and Singapore because we recently issued a report covering those two jurisdictions. So in Hong Kong, we are seeing that tokenization and virtual asset ecosystem are trying to get more established anyway, and more market players are following us in this space. So in terms of the regulatory environment, it’s getting clearer because the SFC is giving quite a bit of guidance generally, and they have been granting licenses to my managers who manages cryptocurrency and security tokens, so we anticipate that the SFC will soon, sometime this year grab their first virtual asset trading platform license across which hopefully, fingers crossed, hopefully make the ecosystem more complete and more welcoming to the asset owners looking to tokenization because ultimately, the promise of tokenization is increasing liquidity, right. So then no trading platform doing ads, investors won’t be comfortable enough to get into the tokenization market. And if there’s no investors, as I mentioned, there’ll be no asset owner who wants to tokenize the asset. So ultimately, if the infrastructure is built in Hong Kong, that there is a trading platform, it will help a lot. And in Singapore, we’re seeing that as I mentioned, we think that the Singapore Regulatory Authority MAS has already approved two government backed security token exchanges. And so the network is, in a sense more mature than that of Hong Kong. And that said, we’re actually seeing less security token offering in Singapore at this age when compared to Hong Kong. It’s kind of weird. So I’m guessing that perhaps market players in the Southeast Asian countries are still warming up to this new way of raising. That said, because the government is trying to push for Singapore to be the Asian FinTech hub. I think we will definitely see more tokenization projects coming in the next 12 to 18 months. And in terms of opportunities, I think a lot of traditional financial institutions are still looking into tokenization but not really fully dived into this market. So we’re seeing more newer and smaller market players who will take this opportunity to have trial basis whole industry and gain a first mover advantage over the incumbent bigger players in the financial and real estate market. For example, like there are usually smaller projects, which they serve as test case for them to show that investors that oh actually it works, and also for them to kind of figure out and smooth out all the operational and practical problems before they go to the bigger market and tell all their existing investors, “Hey, like we have this tokenization project, which is huge and you should be part of it.” So, I think this will take some time. And also like all these players will have to give a bit more investment into  these kind of projects before they can actually grow the market and also it will be a very steep learning process for all the markets.

Darren: I see, Well for Denzity, right, we hope that people are participating in more real estate investing. So when you talk about this whole thing, in my head I was like, “I really wish this happened because it takes only one or two people like the lawyers obviously and all the different regulatory, when combined together to make this happen.” It’s like a community though, you know, you have to push forward. So, with that, right, what are some things that an investor should keep in mind when it comes to really tokenization?

Jason: Yeah, so as a lawyer, I’m going to talk about regulations, right. So from a regulatory point of view, definitely, globally speaking, like regulatory regimes surrounding tokenization it’s very difficult now, difficult to navigate, especially for newer players in the financial industry, if they are from a technology background. So for those who are in the finance industry, that are usually more used to being regulated by securities regulators, but for tech industry players, they usually come free and do whatever they want. So if they want to do it a proper way and they want to get on board, some bigger financial institutions on board, they will have to navigate the securities related regulations before they actually kick start a project. So please seek proper legal and regulatory advice as a lawyer. Jokes aside, yes, that’s that’s actually very important because we do see securities regulators take enforcement actions against non compliant projects, especially if they’re very public. So on an operational level because we have assisted clients and doing that tokenization project recently. So from experience, because blockchain and digital assets are newly introduced in this world of asset management, there’s no like established standard or modus operandi as to the responsibilities and industry standards for party service providers, such as administrator, custodian, technology service providers. So there are situations from our experience where they’re engaged and only a very late stage of the tokenization and the asset owner or the Manage fund manager finds out in the very last minute that the service provider is actually not able to accommodate any proposed arrangements. So we have to change all the documentation, we have to figure out all the mechanism so there’s no it’s no standards, so they don’t know what standard to meet in a sense. So I mean, it’s logistically, from an operational perspective, I think when doing a tokenization project, these service providers need to be engaged at a very, very early stage of tokenization and the documenting.

Darren: I see. So like, for the past two years, right, are there any type of cases like in 2019, 2020 that are successful?

Jason: Yeah. So, we are globally speaking we are lucky, we see a lot of success case organization generally. And, it covers all types of assets, any types of asset you think you can think of, that are traditionally illiquid or big ticket So, such as art and of course real estate, private equity and other exotic asset classes or commodities. So in addition to tokenization of a single piece of asset for example, a single piece of land or single piece of art, more recently, we are actually seeing more interest in tokenization of funds and state funds so we have recently helped our client launch a tokenized actively manage quant fund, which features cryptocurrency as one of the asset classes. So, if you want more details definitely contact us and, and let us know if you’re interested. So, I mean in terms of these project size of these success cases, we know that there are usually at this stage relatively small. For Example, it’s still kind of like one asset, a small piece of asset and with very few investors and generally just a generally smaller scale fundraise.  Projects are usually done by the manager or the asset owner as a proof of contact or communicate. So for them to kind of figure out all the operational and logistical aspects before they go on to do bigger projects.

Darren: So what type of landlords or estate owners should or should not participate in real estate tokenization.

Jason: Okay, to me, all asset owners should at least consider tokenization because we do anticipate that it will become increasingly popular. As I mentioned, there’s a lot of benefits to tokenization and investors are looking into it. So they will eventually, some of them will eventually demand tokenization as part of their term for investments. So like, if you are a real estate owner, at least kind of know what it is and think and put it at the back of your mind. Because in case someone asks you, oh, can we tokenize this because I want liquidity for my investment and in the future, at least you know what it is and you can talk to the relevant people, for example, my book are also the liquify. And with that said I mean, like the asset owners should consider how they can structure that tokenization project. So whether it’s a single project single asset fund, a multi projects fund blind pool or do they only tokenize their equity or beneficial ownership or economic interests are just a revenue stream. So things like what kind of interests of the real estate asset they should tokenize and when doing this, they have to bear in mind of their specific business operation and management strategy. So, if you don’t want any management decision, maybe when tokenizing you should put some of the management account faulting into the tokens that you issue. If you want to retain the management then maybe you should only tokenize the economic interest. If you want to still retain the ownership then you should only perhaps tokenize the revenue stream or tokenized asset, as opposed to the equity or the economic interest. 

Darren: That’s cool. This is a lot of things to digest. And, you know, I’m still learning about it. So for firms that want to participate in real estate tokenization what do they need to have?

Jason: Yep. So I mean, as I mentioned just now for folks who want to participate in the real estate tokenization as these tokens are usually considered a security in most jurisdictions, at least most of the popular jurisdictions, they will have to comply with the local securities laws and regulations. And perhaps in those jurisdictions, they might have this virtual assets specific rules and regulations. So, for example, in Hong Kong, if the Fed wants to market or distribute a security tokens, it will have to obtain a type 1 license with the SFC or find a type 1 license who’s registered with the SFC as well as notify the SFC. As well as the licensee, they have to notify the SFC office plan to distribute security token. And for example, if you want to become a virtual asset trading platform trading security tokens of real estate, then the SFC has also issued licensing terms and conditions for these operators locked back in last year, which sets out some eligibility and regulatory requirements for security token exchange to operate in Hong Kong all for Hong Kong person. So, and also for Asset Management, asset managers who manages funds with exposure to virtual assets, depending on the level of their exposure to these virtual assets, they might also have to notify the SFC of such investments and comply with the relevant virtual asset managers specific terms and conditions. So basically, you have as a lawyer we always have to remind you to be compliant and think about the regulatory issues before you go on to pursue a project. 

Darren: No, like, I feel like for the past, like 20, I don’t know how long we’ve done maybe 20 minutes. It’s like this one lecture in university, but it is so much more fun and engaging and there’s a lot that’s interesting. Oh, yes, I feel like that and obviously that’s what we hope with this whole Denzity insights channel. It’s that people can have more engaging learning same time is that you’re someone who has the credentials to do that. You know, you’re not just someone on the internet. So on a personal note, right, it’s something that I’m just curious to know more about and how you think about it, right? How do you feel about learning this whole industry? Because I don’t know what you have done, what kind of like field you’re in or what kind of sector you were in before. But how do you feel after learning all that and how do you feel about the future of this whole, you know, real estate STO potential?

Jason: Yeah, so I think because the benefits are quite obvious to many investors, I think many larger players are really looking into it and some of them are asking us about the regulatory framework, as well as the commercial aspects of these real estate STO so I think they’re really thinking about it when they are doing future projects. Maybe they won’t really deep dive at this very moment considering all the factors and economic downturn but in the future, they would definitely get into it and I see like, generally speaking the blockchain industry, many of the larger financial players are getting into the game for example, modality and also like northern trust, they are getting into the virtual asset custody business. So I mean, like they’re getting serious about it and we do see a lot of institutional investors looking at virtual assets as a viable and also not reliable but one of the future asset classes that they look to have exposure in so I think it’s a good time to start learning about real estate tokenization because it will become popular I think and I do think the ecosystem will be mature enough in the future for this serious kind of investment by institutional and financial investor.

Darren: That’s kind of cool. I mean, again, hoping for ASAP. So, what kind of takeaway do you want the audience to have with this video?

Jason: Yeah, so I think five main takeaways is a bit much but it’s fine. So first of all, advantages of tokenization, which includes lowering variable acts of entry for investments, operational efficiency, data transparency and most importantly liquidity, which is very important to investors. Second point the ecosystem and infrastructure of real estate organization is still at its very early age. And as it has to be mature enough for serious industry players to join. Third point, marketing players are warming up to this new way of amazing and the regulatory environment is getting clearer and investors are considering tokenization as an attractive potential exit option. Fourth point being, as traditional financial institution are not yet dived into this market, new and smaller market players should take into account this opportunity to trailblaze the industry and gain the best mover advantage. And lastly, it’s a sales pitch. So we had one of the agents first tokenized fund and we have recently assisted a client in launching a tokenized quant fund investing in cryptocurrency. So find us if you have any questions about tokenization.

Darren: I mean, everything falls under that one takeaway. But then how do people find you, what some ways that you would suggest people to reach out to you and learn more about it?

Jason: Yep. So if you’re interested in knowing more about real estate tokenization, tokenization generally, or just want to see how we can help with your tokenization project, you can reach out to me by email at You can also read about tokenized Real Estate tokenization in a report that we have co authored with Liquefy, Colliers, and KPMG. And I think we can provide you with a link somewhere afterwards. 

Darren: Yeah, that’s cool. That’s good. And then I think that that’s something that like even this whole interview, there’s a lot things I didn’t digest, and then I just want to say thanks for your time because you know, it is something that I am really looking forward to and it’s good to have an update on that. So someone with a professional background like yourself, just to know more about what’s going on, it’s an exciting time it’s still wild west, you know? So kind of cool.

Jason: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so inviting me to this.

Darren: I just want the audience to know more about what’s going on out there. And yeah, so let’s try again next time and again, thanks a lot. And then maybe we can do a longer form next time with updates. That’d be great.

Jason: Yeah, sure. Sure.Thank you very much.

Darren: Thank you. Have a good one then.

Jason: Thank you. Yeah, you too. 

Darren: Bye bye.


Darren :嘿,Jason,最近怎麼樣?


Darren :很好。你知道,就像我剛才說的,很忙。但你要知道,這很重要,因為很多人顯然對房地產STO有很多疑問。更好的瞭解,到底發生了什麼,以及背後的技術性問題。對於那些不知道你是誰的人,你介不介意告訴他們你正在做的工作呢?

Jason:是的,當然。所以我叫Jason Chan。我是Sidley Austin的助理,專注於基金和金融監管。囙此,我的業務集中在對資訊交易的投資上,其中當然包括房地產基金和標記化基金,以及與基金經理和金融科技公司相關的各種金融監管事項。囙此,我的團隊一直致力於亞洲第一隻代幣化基金的開發,最近我們還協助一比特客戶推出了他們的標記化基金,即對沖基金投資於貨幣。

Darren :我明白了。囙此,對於那些不瞭解所有權部分整個問題的人來說,房地產標記化意味著什麼?它與房地產、眾籌或房地產對等交易有什麼不同?




Darren :是的。我懂了。那麼,讓房地產標記化工作的關鍵要素是什麼?


Darren :別忘了。


Darren :好吧,你知道,我聽說房地產標記化已經很多很多年了,但是這個行業似乎沒有太多,你知道,案例或事情正在發生。這背後的原因是什麼?或者我睡在石頭下麵,就像,我只想知道那裡發生了什麼。


Darren :我明白了,是的,我也要問你,因為我們就像從科維德和經濟衰退中恢復一樣。Covid是否有助於或惡化標記化的潜力?


Darren :我明白了。回到我剛才問過你的一個問題,你也有點掩飾了,對吧。你知道,你是怎麼說的,比如說,很多投資者還沒有看到它,很多球員都失踪了。所以不僅僅是今天,就像三、四樣東西不見了。那麼在你看來,現時標記化的生態系統如何?還缺什麼?為了讓一切發生,有什麼樣的當事人參與?


Darren :我明白了。很明顯,所有這些都是正確的,你知道的,我們在香港的回報是什麼,你知道嗎知道,這裡有一個安全代幣。然後,有什麼項目在進行嗎?或者我們是否應該很快看到產品清單?


Darren :我明白了,對丹奇蒂來說,我們希望人們參與更多的房地產投資。所以當你談到這件事的時候,在我的腦海裏,我想,“我真的很希望這件事發生,因為這只需要一兩個人,比如律師和所有不同的監管機构,當結合在一起的時候,就可以實現這一點。”這就像一個社區,你知道,你必須向前推進。那麼,有了這些,對吧,投資者在真正進行標記化時應該記住哪些事情?


Darren :我明白了。比如,在過去的兩年裏,有沒有像2019年、2020年這樣成功的案例?


Darren :那麼什麼樣的房東或業主應該或者不應該參與房地產標記化。


Darren :那很酷。這有很多事情需要消化。而且,你知道,我還在學習。所以,對於那些想參與房地產標記化的公司來說,他們需要什麼?


Darren :不,好像,我覺得在過去,大概20分鐘,我不知道我們做了多長時間,也許20分鐘。就像大學裏的這節課,但它更有趣,更吸引人,還有很多有趣的東西。哦,是的,我有這種感覺,很明顯這就是我們希望整個Denzity insights頻道能做到的。這是因為人們可以有更具吸引力的學習同時,你是一個有資格這樣做的人。你知道,你不僅僅是網上的人。所以就我個人而言,對吧,我只是好奇地想知道更多,你是怎麼想的,對吧?你對學習整個行業有何感想?因為我不知道你做過什麼,你在什麼樣的領域,或者你以前在什麼行業。但是在瞭解了所有這些之後,你有什麼感覺?你對整個房地產市場的未來有什麼看法?

Jason:是的,所以我認為,因為對很多投資者來說,收益是非常明顯的,我認為很多大的參與者都在研究這個問題,他們中的一些人正在問我們監管框架,以及這些房地產STO的商業方面,所以我認為他們在做未來的項目時確實在考慮這個問題。考慮到所有的因素和經濟衰退,也許他們現在不會真正深入研究,但在未來,他們肯定會投入其中,我看到,一般來說,區塊鏈行業,許多較大的金融參與者正在進入遊戲,例如,形式,也像northern trust,他們正在進入虛擬資產託管業務。所以我的意思是,就像他們開始認真對待這件事一樣,我們確實看到很多機構投資者把虛擬資產視為一種可行的、也不可靠的資產類別,但他們認為這是未來資產類別中的一種,囙此我認為現在是開始學習房地產代幣化的好時機,因為它將變得流行,我想我也一樣對於機构和金融投資者的這種嚴肅的投資,我認為生態系統在未來會足够成熟。

Darren :有點酷。我是說,再次希望儘快。那麼,你希望觀眾對這段視頻有什麼樣的收穫?


Darren :我的意思是,所有的東西都屬於那個外賣。但是,人們是如何找到你的,你會建議人們用什麼方法來接觸你並瞭解更多資訊呢?


Darren :是的,那很酷。很好。然後我覺得這就是整個採訪的內容,有很多事情我沒有消化,然後我只想感謝你的時間,因為你知道,這是我非常期待的事情,很高興有一個最新的進展。所以像你這樣有專業背景的人,只是想知道更多的事情發生了,這是一個令人興奮的時刻,它仍然是狂野的西部,你知道嗎?有點酷。


Darren :我只想讓觀眾更多地瞭解外面的情况。是的,讓我們下次再試一次,非常感謝。也許下次我們可以做一個更長的表格。那太好了。


Darren :謝謝。那就好好吃一頓吧。


Darren :再見。

Real Estate Knowledge

4 Common Ways To Use Feng Shui For A Fortuitous Investment

Feng shui, the mysterious ancient Chinese science that the world loves. Feng shui masters believed that the position of the building and furniture could influence one’s fortune in various aspects.

Feng shui, the mysterious ancient Chinese science that the world loves. Oriented from China, feng shui is mainly used in architecture for good fortune. Feng shui masters believed that the position of the building and furniture could influence one’s wealth in various aspects. Based on what we sourced from our experts and community, here are some common feng shui ideas for a fortuitous real estate equity investment, even if you’re looking at Southeast Asian real estate markets like Vietnam real estate market or Malaysia real estate market.

Location, location, location

Real estate equity investment is all about location. We all know that. But this is also true when it comes to feng shui. It is crucial to look at the position of your preferred building before you purchase it. For example, it is auspicious to have a roundabout, a mountain, and a garden near the building. On the other hand, if there is a curved road, a construction site, or a footbridge near your flat, then it may cause harm to you and your family’s health. In general, a building with a bright view, ventilated air, and good lighting will be a safe choice.

Floor number is not the same for everyone

In Chinese culture, the number 4 is considered ominous because it sounds like “death” in Chinese, while number 8 is deemed to be auspicious because it sounds like “fortune”. Therefore, most people will choose floor numbers with 8 and avoid floor numbers with 4. However, feng shui masters suggest that this is not the case. Each number represents a basic element: metal, wood, water, fire, and earth; just like each person. So, it is more important to examine if the floor number matches your own “fate” instead of merely looking at general guidelines. If you’re in doubt, try to seek some inspirations from the latest Denzity series where Denzity founder Darren Wong talks to feng shui real estate expert Allen Kong. 

Positions of doors are the key to your fortune

The position of the main door is very important in feng shui. One of the main considerations in feng shui is “Qi”, which roughly translates into “air”, and doors are responsible for the transportation of Qi. There are certain dos and don’ts while designing your flat. The main entrance should not face any other doors, including those inside the flat and those of your neighbors. The main door should not face any windows, lifts, toilets, or kitchens. Pretty complicated right? That’s why people usually hire a feng shui  in real estate expert before they start decorating.

Points of fortunes

There are different points of fortunes inside a flat. Feng shui experts will calculate the exact positions of these points according to the time of the year and the flat owner’s fate. To achieve the most from these points, you have to place specific furniture on specific locations. For instance, a piano can be placed on “the point of fortune” because the movement of playing the piano can increase cash flow, and children’s bedroom can be placed in “the point of academia” to improve their academic performances. In contrast, the toilet should not be placed in these two points.

Feng shui has become a hot topic in recent years in the field of real estate equity investments. Although some may see it as superstition, some people discovered that feng shui could be explained by science. For example, it is not only auspicious to separate the kitchen with the toilet, but also hygienic. Any thoughts on whether feng shui practices should be applied in real estate equity investments? Let us know in the comment section!

Market Updates 未分類

Launching Denzity Platform

Launching Denzity Platform


Follow us

Check us out:






Hey everyone!

Today, we have some exciting news for you – we are launching the Denzity Platform!

If you are not familiar with what we do, let’s start by pointing out the obvious here:

Real estate investing is super complicated and very time-consuming.

If you are a busy person, like most of us, you are probably squeezing every bit of time between tasks finding clues to your next real estate investment – from browsing many bit size articles aimlessly to chatting with many people that might know very little about what you need… After months and months of research, maybe you’ll find a few options you might like… In the end, the investment might not turn out what you have expected. The worst of all –  you might get scammed by bad players — years of effort and savings down the drain.

Even professional investors have a hard time finding information in real estate. It can be, honestly, exhausting to find trustworthy sources. That’s why Denzity is here.

Denzity is a global community of industry experts, here to help you in your real estate exploration. Break all the myths and misconceptions with sound insights, open dialogues, and peer-reviewed content from professional real estate agents, developers, world-class investors, advisors and more. By bringing you closer to Experts worldwide, Denzity lets you focus on what matters most: getting a better sense of where, what, and how to invest in real estate – both locally and abroad.

Want to learn more about the Southeast Asia market? Type in the region you’re interested in, like the Malaysia real estate market or the Vietnam real estate market. Instantly you’ll be able to access insights from the community of experts with the right domain expertise. 

Experts are here to answer any questions you might have, such as ‘Which area is up and coming?” “What kind of tax do I need to pay?” “Where is the best place for me to buy a second home?” “Who can I trust to help me buy the apartment?” – whatever comes to your mind. No more wandering around and wasting time. Most importantly, it is totally free!

With Denzity, you can stay in touch with the Experts to learn more and get notified when they reply to you. You can also save their insights to revisit later and share them with the people you care about with just a few clicks away.

Sign up for Denzity today to unlock your full potential in real estate investing.














Are you a real estate expert (professional real estate agent, developer, world-class investor, advisor, or other)?

Contact us at to create a profile and get started!

Market Updates 未分類

FAQ when purchasing Malaysia real estate

Kuala Lumpur,  the capital of Malaysia
Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia

With the high property prices in Hong Kong, many Hongkongers seek to invest in overseas real estate markets. Markets near Hong Kong, like Japan real estate market and Taiwan real estate market, are popular choices. Yet, in recent years, investments in the Southeast Asian market has been on the rise. More people are looking for real estate equity investments in Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia. These countries usually have a lower property price and low language barrier, making them the new favorite for Hongkongers.

To suit the high demands of immigration applications from Hong Kong, the Malaysian government has launched Malaysia My Second Home Programme to allow foreigners to stay in Malaysia for a longer period of time, making it more appealing than ever to invest in Malaysia real estate market. Based on what we sourced from our experts and community, let’s look at some FAQs related to real estate equity investment in Malaysia.

Q: Are there any limitations for Hong Kong citizens when investing in the Malaysia real estate market?

A: Yes. Although foreigners are allowed to purchase real estate in Malaysia or even enjoy permanent land ownership, there are still limitations regarding the price of the property. The limitation amount varies among cities, yet it is a general rule that foreigners cannot purchase the low-cost properties reserved for Malaysian citizens.

Q: Should I find a real estate agent from Hong Kong or Malaysia?

A: It is always recommended to find a real estate expert that specializes in the Malaysia real estate market, or preferably has experienced living in Malaysia. The easy way to go will be to check out the directory on Denzity and look for Malaysia real estate market experts. Real estate experts will share their insights on their expertise, including tips for Malaysia real estate equity investment, rent returns, or even visa problems and MM2H programme.

Q: Can I apply for a mortgage when investing in the Malaysia real estate market?

A: Yes. You can do it from a local Malaysian bank, or some of the banks in Hong Kong like HSBC and Standard Chartered Bank. Usually, Malaysian banks tend to favor Malaysian citizens when it comes to a mortgage. Locals can apply for a 90% mortgage easily, yet for foreigners, it is usually 70%. If you do your mortgage through a Hong Kong bank, then the mortgage amount will be even lower. We advise you to consult your real estate expert to find out the best solution according to your financial status.

Q: What kind of fees do I have to pay?

A: It is more or less similar to Hong Kong. You have to pay various types of taxes regarding the type of property you purchase, including stamp duty, property tax, and land tax. You will also need to pay legal fees, land registry fees, and some administrative fees for the government. Double-check with your real estate expert before you confirm the payment of anything.

Q: What are the return rates of letting my property in Malaysia?

A: That highly depends on the location of your property. According to the Annual Property Market Report published by Malaysia National Property Information Centre in 2019, the average return rate would be 3-6%. Yet, for properties in the “Golden Triangle”, it can go up to 10%. After earning your profit, make sure to check out the tax deduction criteria to see if you can be exempted from paying your taxes. In case of any problems, you can consult Malaysian real estate experts and other real estate equity investment enthusiasts from Denzity.

Investing in the Malaysia real estate market is easy and convenient, but it can be confusing as well. If you have any questions, be it big or small, go ahead and post it on Denzity Directory ( for real estate experts from all over the world to answer your doubts.

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Get To Know Toronto Real Estate Market with Gencan Lam

Get To Know Toronto Real Estate Market with Gencan Lam

Connect with Gencan:

• Website: https;//

• LinkedIn:

• Facebook:

• Instagram:

• YouTube:

• Twitter:

• WeChat: gencanlam

• Email: 

They say home is where you make it. Toronto, Canada has been that home to millions for years, with a large proportion of it being immigrants. This is due to Canada’s ever-growing tech industry, world-class education and health care system, growing opportunities and many more.

Today, Gencan will walk us through the Toronto real estate industry and tell us how it is important to look at the long term view of the local market and how there are more than just numbers to take into consideration before making the investment.

• How does Toronto differ from other metropolitan cities?

• Why should you choose Toronto as your investment destination?

• Which areas in Toronto to look into?

• What are the up and coming areas?

• How does the tax and mortgage work for foreign investors?

Gencan is a real estate agent from the 6ix, in Toronto, Canada. He works at a real estate brokerage in Toronto called Landpower Real Estate – a combined 15 years of award winning real estate experience, serving clients through buying, selling homes, investing in pre-construction, and property management. Having lived, schooled and worked in the Greater Toronto Area for the last 20 years, he considers himself as a city guide who can help investors navigate around the city.

Terminology & Source: 

Greater Toronto Area: The Greater Toronto Area or GTA is Canada’s largest and North America’s fourth large metropolitan city. It consists of six regions and is one of the most diversified places in the world due to its massive number of immigrants.

CN Tower: Canada’s famous landmark CN Tower was constructed in 1976 and is located in Toronto, Canada. CN is the abbreviation for Canada National.

Sources: Landpower real estate:

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.


 Shout out to our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

You can check out their work at

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!



Darren: Hey, how’s it going?

Gencan: How’s it going? Good.

Darren: Good, good, good, good. Yeah. So I’m excited about this episode, because I mentioned to you before I really miss Toronto and for the audience who doesn’t know about my upcoming, I used to live in Toronto for three, four years. So when I reached out to you to talk about Toronto, like “Hey can you tell the audience and myself more about Toronto? I was pretty excited about this whole episode.  

Gencan: That’s great. I was excited when you told me you’re actually originally from Toronto as well. Yeah. And it’s great to meet another fellow Toronto person in Hong Kong. 

Darren: Yeah. Well, before anything, right. Would you mind telling the audience more about yourself? 

Gencan: Sure. So yeah, Hey Darren. Thanks for having me. My name is Gencan. I’m a real estate agent from the six in Toronto. Together with a partner of mine who is also my brother, we work in a real estate brokerage firm in Toronto called Land Power real estate. We have combined 15 years of award winning real estate experience. 

So yeah, I’m a real estate agent from Toronto. I’ve been living here for 20 years of my life. And I partnered with my brother about five years ago and we serve our clients through buying homes, selling homes, investing in pre-construction real estate and property management. And to tell you a little bit about myself, as I mentioned before, I was actually born in Hong Kong but I moved to Toronto when I was 10 years old, and I’ve been here for over 20 years now. Language wise, I speak Mandarin, Cantonese and English. And so like living here in Toronto, it was a pretty seamless process when we moved here, and having also lived, schooled, and worked in the Greater Toronto Area, for the last 20 years, we really consider ourselves city guides that can help investors navigate around the city. 

Darren: That’s good. And it’s kind of like my story too because I remember when I go to Toronto, there’s a huge asian community. Even though I’m like miles away from Hong Kong, it feels somewhat at home and still different. And then so for some audience that might not know about Toronto, right, people don’t know about how the Greater Toronto Area have a lot of different neighborhoods. And then you know as to Drake, as you said before this just before the coin the six, can you give us the audience, a brief introduction of GTA and where oversea real estate investors tend to invest?

Gencan: So when you talk about Toronto, and the six, it’s been a very popular term, and in recent years, Drake has talked about it in his songs. And it really comes down to our area code, our area code is 416, and six or seven. So 416 is original area code, 647 is pretty much past the year 2000. So a lot of the young millennials will relate to the six or seven. And so it’s a six that really differentiates ourselves from the other numbers and the six main areas that also make up the Greater Toronto Area is also why the number six is also important. So there’s the old Toronto there Scarborough, there’s East York, North York, Etobicoke and York. So these are the six main regions in the Greater Toronto that we have. The GTA is also the largest metropolitan city in Canada with over 6.4 million people, and the fourth largest city in North America, and the other big cities just trailing behind which especially with city, LA and New York. In Canada, the largest city, Toronto is really a leader in business, finance, technology, entertainment and culture. And what makes Toronto really different is that we have a lot of immigrants and we’re extremely multicultural. We have over 250 in the cities in over 170 languages. So if you’re from Toronto, you’ll have lots of different cultures. So you have, you know, Asians you have Black, Latin American, Arabs, and a lot of Indians in fact, and so living in Toronto like we always feel like at home no matter what kind of race we are, there’s not much racial discrimination. So we feel really comfortable living here in Toronto.

But like you mentioned in the question, out of the six areas in the Greater Toronto Area, the most important area of the mall is the downtown Toronto area, which overseas investors will find some of the best real estate opportunities. And in these areas in the GTA, most of the most important iconic landmarks in Toronto are found in the downtown Toronto major core. So things you’ll find are such as the financial district in Toronto, which you’ll find the TSX the Toronto Stock Exchange and the major credit quarters, the harbourfront where you’ll find the the Lake Ontario and most of the waterfront properties. The entertainment district where you find all the nightlife, Toronto International Film Festival arts and lots more. So for Toronto a lot of the investments have been coming through the downtown Toronto area because there’s a lot of iconic landmarks that I’ve mentioned. The subway extension is also in Toronto and the root of it is in Toronto with the subway and also the go train on the CN Tower. How can I forget the CN Tower is also in the major core so naturally for a lot of investors they want to invest in something that they’re more used to so Toronto is definitely where a lot investors could invest in.

Darren: Yeah, I think when you tell me about it it like reminds me of a lot of Toronto like you know, when you talk about different area and stuff like that, I’m kind of have the image in my head like walking through the streets and then driving around and stuff like that. So you know, like Toronto real estate market has become a very hot topic, among a few circles. I mean, what’s the reason behind that? And then again, the trend and how do you think it’s going to be like the next couple years? 

Gencan: So a lot of the hot topic of Toronto in recent years, has been talking about two things. So the immigration and the tech sector. So these two things are huge in Toronto right now. And as I mentioned, we have a Liberal government. So immigration is really welcomed. And so we have, because of how multicultural our city is, we have people coming from India, from Asia, all parts of Asia, from Italy, we have a huge Italian background, from Arab so we actually have a really good mix of a lot of different people coming to Toronto, and because of how good our education system is, or good, how good our healthcare is, a lot of people have been moving to Toronto in recent years. And because of how open our government is to immigration, we’ve actually seen an increasing number of immigration and growth every single year. So just immigration wise is a huge contributing factor to our talented nurse in Toronto. And second thing I want to talk about is the tech jobs. So the tech jobs in Toronto is really something that if you’re in a tech industry, you’re going to be talking about Toronto was one of the top tech growth cities in North America. So it’s been a hot topic for the last couple years. But just a couple facts I want to talk about, we actually have the fastest growing tech market in North America actually having a better tech job growth in New York City, Seattle and Boston combined. It’s something that we’re very, very proud of. We have 290,000 skilled workers and making one of the largest tech hubs in the world. So when you talk about tech hubs, people usually think about San Francisco, New York. But Toronto was actually, you know, trending on top of being one of the fastest growing tech markets. And we actually saw a 54% increase in our tech jobs over the past five years. And really, now it ranks number three, just behind San Francisco and Seattle. So it’s definitely a very good industry that a lot of people a lot of young grads are looking to and moving here. 

Darren: So it sounds like because of the tech boom, for example, right, A lot of new areas or hip areas and stuff like that, is there any area that you think is like because of that whole movement with work coming in that is kind of booming, it’s kind of exciting to see how it developed?

Gencan: So, the tech industry, you’ll find in two main areas in Toronto. So, in the major downtown core, as I mentioned many times, that’s where most of the employment is. And most of the major headquarters of the tech giants in the world, like Google, Amazon, Yahoo, Uber, they’re all centered in the downtown core area. And the reason why a lot of people, a lot of corporate headquarters moved there is because you have all the lifestyle criteria there so you have all the top restaurants within walking distance you have a lake waterfront. People in the tech industry really like enjoying life, you know, like you have Google having   some of the best like headquarters you have in the world, some of the best interiors so I think lifestyle is a huge proportion to what the tech companies want to move in Toronto and because we have such a good lifestyle aspect to it. Food is also a really important aspect of downtown. We have some of the best and most diverse restaurants. So I think lifestyle wise, you know, listens to the waterfront, it’s really important to people moving in Toronto. And the second area that I want to mention is in Waterloo. So Waterloo is around an hour and a half from Toronto. But you can’t talk about Toronto’s tech industry or Canada’s tech industry without talking about Waterloo. So Waterloo is actually home of rim, which is blackberries like an original manufacturer. So Waterloo actually brewed a lot of tech talents in Canada and the world because they have some of the best programs in universities from University of Waterloo, Western so it’s basically these two areas Toronto and Waterloo which is stimulating all the growth in the tech industry.

Darren: I see. So Greater Toronto Area is huge area, people look at the map, they don’t realize that it’s like, you know, downtown, for example, take an hour from an end to another end, and then going to Scarborough Mississauga and everything is a huge area right? And so I’m just wondering, right, are there any places around those areas that is really popular among oversea investors that you think is overrated or overpriced?

Gencan: So, when you talk about overrated or underrated areas, I would talk about areas that always have hidden potential. And when we talk about overrated, you can’t forget that there’s also a lot of underrated areas. That is also on the other end of the spectrum. So overrated areas in Toronto, I would say there are quite a couple and the reason is because everyone just invest in areas that they know about. So in Toronto, most people invest in what they know about if it’s close to CN Tower, or if it was close to financial district, if it’s close to the University of Toronto, so these areas are where a lot of people invest in, but throughout the past couple of years, because a lot of people have invested in these areas, it may have created a saturated kind of investment area because the prices have been really expensive. It’s always invest in a very established neighborhoods, with all these, you know, these iconic landmarks. So I feel that if you’re looking at an area with high growth, it’s not going to be in all these major hotspots in Toronto, I would look at the outskirts. So when I talk about the outer skirts, I talked about the fringe areas in Toronto. Maybe around 20 minutes away from the downtown core accessible to public transit, or through highways, or with more government infrastructure building in those areas with, you know, go train or with other financial centers. So we feel that Toronto everyone knows about the main areas in Toronto or most people do. But we really want to find as realtors the best valued areas. So the underrated areas, the up and coming areas that we feel can make our clients the most money.

Darren: Well, that’s exactly what we’re thinking because like, you know, when we think about our platform, and our view that we’re making is that to let people understand that, it’s not only about the two or three streets, you don’t have to necessarily go for those areas. And there are all different areas that you can explore. So this is something that like, I preach you for that reason, too. So how would you suggest differently if investors are either planning for self uses or investment only. 

Gencan: So for self use, I would say the biggest difference right now, if you asked me about self user investment is really the lifestyle. For self use, I would ask a lot of questions such as how big your family is, let’s say what kind of lifestyle you prefer, what kind of school you’re going to, where you’re going to be working. So I think a lot of the differences with self use and investment is that you really want to get personal with the investor. So investors personal preferences are something that we really want to get to the bottom of, and we really want to understand. So for us to really understand and match a particular investment to our investor, we really want to get to understand them, because there’s so many different areas in Toronto that you can actually make money in. And we’re not going to say, “Hey in area A, you’re going to make this much of a turn over this place.” Because it’s all relative, if you have a place that has a really good return, the prices are always going to be a little bit more expensive, but a place that has less return, it might be very established might be more stable. So understanding a client’s personal preferences is very important. So I can give you an example. So let’s say if a client has children who wants to go to university, we would recommend them into university areas such as University of Toronto, and those areas are traditionally more expensive, but they’re very stable. They’re very established neighborhoods, which get very good rental returns. But if they want that convenience, that’s something they can go towards and conversely, if you think about investment, I would talk more about the numbers. So what’s the return? What’s the major infrastructure that’s going to be building in the area? What are the hot pockets that will get the highest returns in an X number area, X number of years? So I think it’s a little bit dislocated with the personal aspect for end user, but for investment wise, for strictly investment wise, I would also recommend clients it’s just as important because when I recommend investments to clients, I want to tell them that, “Hey, if you’re investing for a strictly end user, what’s the last thing that can happen if the market crashes?” If the market crash, I think the number one thing you can consider is “Hey, what if I live in there? What if I actually have a chance to live in there? Would I still buy in this place?” So one of the few questions I like to ask is, if they’re willing to live in that in that place, while investing in the same place. I think having those two components will really mitigate a lot of the risk factors because a lot of times when people just look at investment, just as strictly number factors, they can just look at pretty much anywhere in the city. But having that aspect, if they can actually move in, it actually opens up to more personal preferences, which I would have like a balanced approach between the two. 

Darren: That’s actually really good advice, because, you know, I was thinking, I was always telling people to think about, if you were miles away in that location, so obviously, like you think a lot differently, which comes to my next question, right, what are some things that oversea investor should be aware of when they assessing the opportunities in Toronto?

Gencan: So there’s a lot of factors. I think I mentioned a couple like, whether it’s close to like universities, if it’s close to the Financial District, if it’s close to, you know, different subway stations, I think the important thing is understanding the intention and the preferences of the investor. Some of the things that I usually like to break it down to my client is a couple things. So TTC or the public transit is a major, major, major thing I always like to talk to my clients about, because Toronto is actually not accessible by walking like an entire GTA. There’s a lot of different smaller parts of the GTA that you actually need to have a car. It’s like Hong Kong, so like Hong Kong or Asia, in most of the Southern Asian cities, most of the cities are connectedby subway or by train, but in Toronto like in some areas you have to have a car, you have to drive to the highway or have access to local amenities in different parts of the city. For example, a place like Markham, you have to travel by car to the place because if you take it by TTC or public transit, it might take an hour and a half. So I think that some of the things that overseas investors have to do, as one of the top things is think about the transit as it’s really different. It’s really the North American transit system is really different than the transit system in Asia. So I think that’s number one thing. Another thing is to talk about the schools. So what type of schools would the investor be leaning towards? So Toronto has a lot of different schools and when I talk about schools, I want to talk about the universities because that’s one of the most important in the GTA area, but every school has its own benefits, and it’s better programs, the better major programs. You mentioned that you want the Queens, entirely amazing as this program. But as I mentioned previously, like a school like University of Waterloo, it’s good for finance and also engineering and like gearing towards a more tech based epic career. And then you have Hamilton, you have like a University of McMaster, which is really good for business. And then yeah, your u of t which is good for everything. So I think knowing the type of schools that you want to invest in or like the client who wants to have children invest in particular areas, I think that’s really important. Lastly is employment. Employment is really important. I think that there’s a lot of again, there’s a lot of different sub pockets for more popular types of jobs. So there’s the financial district in Toronto, which has all the headquarters. But then if you go another area in the GTA closer to Markham, you have more types of labor jobs or different types of tech jobs outside of the Greater Toronto Area. So I think jobs wise, TTC and, and also the school is also very important when assessing opportunities. 

Darren: I see. So for overseas investors, right, what kind of tax and how much would they get charged if they invest in overseas real estate in Canada?

Gencan: Yeah. So in 2017, the Government of Ontario announced that there was going to be a 15% non-resident speculation tax so this is pretty much to tax any foreign buyers interested in buying real estate in Toronto, Ontario. So this 15% tax is slapped on the closing of any property. So for example, if you’re buying any property in Toronto, let’s say a condo in downtown Toronto in Yorkville, and you have a closing date of two months after you purchase a property that 15% tax is due on the closing in two months. I’ll give you another example. If you’re buying a preconstruction property that is closing in three to four years, the 15% tax is not due until you close so it’s actually four years after. So this 15% is added on top so for example, if it’s a $500,000 condo than the 15% tax will be 65,000 that’ll be added on top to the to the purchase price. However, with the tax rate now, there’s actually a tax rebate eligible if you actually qualify. So there’s a couple of different qualifications to see if you’re actually qualify. But one of the more popular one is, if you purchase a property as non resident, let’s say you’re from Hong Kong, you buy a property in Toronto, if you actually apply to become a Canadian permanent resident, and within four years of the real estate purchase, you can actually be eligible to get the rebate back. So that’s quite interesting. I think a lot of people have been interested in moving to Toronto. So people have been doing that. 

Darren: I see. By the way, you have been very thorough like the answers that you have so far. Thanks a lot. You know, like, we interviewed a couple of guests so far and some of them only give kind of like a very high level answer, but you get really in depth and I want to appreciate you and say thank you so far. Yeah. So like I’m sure it’s a big topic, right, I think you guys are still under COVID. How did the COVID impact of market and then you know, during these times, are there any opportunities that investors should look at? 

Gencan: Yeah, so in Toronto, the real estate market was actually extremely strong preCovid. So, during the last year, like the later stages of last year, in November, December, there was actually a lot of articles talking about how hot the 2020 market was going to be. And we had an extremely hot market, and we were actually primed to have maybe the best one of the years we’ve had in the last decade or so, like we’ve had in 2017 we had a really hot year. And then in 2020, we’re like, wow, this is actually crazy, and we’re possibly going to have a better year than 2017 we’re gonna have the same type of buyer mentality that we had. So it was definitely a seller’s market. So a lot of people buying, the demand was crazy. And there was a lot of multiple offer situation. So a lot of people were over bidding and the prices were really high. A lot of people sold at that time but COVID-19 hit and a lot of the fears about buying all of a sudden just stopped and just put on pause. So as COVID-19 hit in Toronto, it kind of hit slowly. And like as many countries and cities in the world, it suddenly spiked up a lot and basically our city decided to have a city emergency and pretty much stopped all the non essential services. So when we talk about non essential real estate is actually an essential service, but the non essential services is basically like malls, plazas, a lot of the small palm tree shops, they all stopped. So, it pretty much allowed this whole COVID-19 to take over all Toronto. So, as a result, a lot of people ended up staying home, jobless, they couldn’t go to work a lot of restaurants was not doing well. And our market basically tanked for two months. And so as you know, as people who previously bought in previous years who want to sell around this time, it was very tough for them. As sellers we saw like a market drop around 50% during this time for buyers, it was actually a very good time. So to answer your question, it was actually a very good time for investors to come in if they had money. So there’s always two sides of it. Whenever there’s a downturn in the economy, there’s always an opportunity for investors. So where investors who had money who were willing to move into a place immediately, it became a really good opportunity for buyers to come in to get a lot of property at a discounted rate. So that happened a lot in March and April. However, it really sucked for sellers, sellers really saw a really big decrease. So they really had like the bad end of the stick. However, something interesting that happened in Toronto is that Toronto really didn’t see a huge drop off like we see a recession. So usually, we have an actual recession in the city. In the economy, we’ll actually see no demand, we’ll see supply drop and everything drop. But we’re actually seeing demand actually being very resilient in Toronto. So we actually saw really healthy demand still in like a lot of agents circles and they were ready to pounce on a lot of properties and sellers because they didn’t have as many listings as before, the prices actually became more stable. So when the listings were less, were low, the buyers demand still remained high. So actually prices didn’t drop too much. So not to talk about it for too long, but the demand actually over exceeded the detriment of COVID-19. So actually, the prices continue to be relatively stable. So fast forward to May and June, we’re actually seeing a balancing and a lot more activity of prices going back to normal. So it’s quite an interesting state that we’re seeing in Toronto. And, I contributed really to the demand and I contributed to the immigration and people moving to Toronto. At the same time COVID you also see Hong Kong having a lot of protests, I’m sure, you know, their instability amongst other countries like Italy, like a lot of other countries in the world, which don’t see their own cities as some safe haven, but actually saw Toronto as something that’s more of a safe haven. So we actually see a lot of a spike in interest and people coming back. So yeah, we were really surprised. We were really surprised to see how resilient Toronto was, and so while condo prices dipped a little bit, it’s coming back up right now, actually. 

Darren: That’s good to hear. With that said, right, what are some tips and advice you would suggest to the audience?

Gencan: So, like specifically for Toronto, I would say, look at the long term view of Toronto, I think there’s a lot of good long term aspects and views that you see in Toronto that you may not see in other cities. And I think that living in Toronto, there’s so many different things that I can appreciate as having lived here for the last 20 years. A couple of things that come to mind – and the main things is our education system. We have one of the best education systems in the world, world class, University of Toronto is one of the top universities. Our healthcare, we have a free health care and amazing health care system. And also like our political climate, it’s relatively safe. So I think that looking at different cities when you’re investing in and assessing where opportunities I think you need to look at not only where the general investors have previously invested in, because if you look at a city like New York or London, or Cali, like San Francisco or LA, a lot of people have invested in those areas, but it might not be the best long term. If you look at certain cities outlook, it may be but because of how popular certain cities are, I think you want to look at areas and cities that are up and coming. So I think that when you’re assessing opportunities, having a more conservative outlook of your investment, you can invest in more established areas. But if you’re looking for potential for long term growth, which I always suggest to my clients, it’s always looking at up and coming areas. And for a city like Toronto, I think we have been improving in the last 10 years, steadily. So I think that’s some of the ways that I’ve been assessing for my clients.

Darren: That’s good. That’s something that like, even I remember, I asked you beforehand about what are some places up and coming, you know, kind of hip and stuff like that. So, would you mind telling the audience what street and what area would you suggest? And then, you know, are those younger crowds willing to pay more, you know, and then what are some kind of common activities, commercial activities besides just tech and other industry that you think might be long term as well? 

Gencan: Yeah. So when you talk about like hip and, and like popular areas, it’s still downtown Toronto, like most most young people still like living in downtown Toronto but in the downtown Toronto area like aside from like the six main areas in the GTA Greater Toronto Area, there are like sub pockets. So like I mentioned earlier, there’s the national district, there’s like the door filled area, there’s an entertainment district. There’s like a less legal area. So there’s a lot of these different pockets that are very popular among the young. The young millennial circles are the big yuppies. But one thing that I really like, promoting and talking about in Toronto is sports. We actually have an amazing sports fan base in Toronto, possibly some of the best in the world. And the reason is because we have for the best major sports in Toronto. So when you talk about Toronto, the major sports we have Toronto like NBA, Raptors, we have Toronto Raptors. For NHL, we have the Toronto Maple Leafs. For Major League Baseball, we have Toronto Blue Jays. And then for soccer, we have Toronto FC. So these sports teams that we have in Toronto actually allows people who live here to have access to games for the entire year. So, if you look at the seasons wide spread out, it’s actually split in the entirety of the year. So on any given night, on most nights, you’re able to catch a game, you know, you can walk to the game, you know, watch the Raptors, if you’re a soccer fan, you can watch a soccer game, and it’s all accessible by like major public transit areas. So if you’re a sports fan, and you live in Toronto, it’s a dream. 

Another thing that I was talking about in Toronto is the food. Food is the most diverse that we have. And it really talks about a good kind of flavor that we have and when we talk about the different types of immigration and different types of cultures, we have a lot of different flavors in Toronto. So you have a really big market for Asians, for Italians, for Greeks, for Indian for like white food. So we actually have a lot of sub pockets in these different ethnic groups. I don’t want to kind of like separate all these ethnic groups, but they are in different regions and I think I’m very proud to see a lot of different demographics, different areas. And it just shows to me, if you’re living in Toronto, you can actually find your group. And you can actually blend well and establish like a good business in your area if you don’t want to, you know, like assimilate with another group yet. It’s a very open neighborhood where like, you know, we have a lot of different international flavors everywhere. So, yeah, again, Toronto, we talked about the sports, the food and also like shopping. Shopping is also a very big thing in Toronto, and we have some of the best brand names, some of the best shopping in Toronto. 

Darren: I see. I feel like we’re doing the City of Toronto a favor of explaining people, advertising the city.

Gencan: More like a city guide now. 

Darren: No that’s good because when you say about the neighborhood, a lot of people just keep forgetting that real estate investing is important. But if you don’t understand how people live, the culture and how people interact, what’s the point, right? So this is something that I really appreciate. And, you know, if city of Toronto can, you know, pay us for advertising, let me know.

This reminds me a lot about Toronto griefing. But Toronto is like there are a lot of things going on at the same time. And then, you know, it’s a really fun city to be at. And I only have like one or two more questions in my mind. Obviously mortgage is a big, big thing and a lot of people, I remember I actually told my friends that I’m going to interview and then they’re like, “Oh, I want to know about the mortgage.” So what are some tips that you can have for oversea investors when it comes to like getting a mortgage? 

Gencan: Yeah, so the topic about mortgage, it’s a little bit different than having a local buyer buy into real estate, when you talk about the mortgage every time I have an overseas investors interested in buying real estate here, I always recommend them to a mortgage broker that also works in Hong Kong. So when we talk about Hong Kong and Toronto, I think about TD Bank or HSBC, or RBC, which has both branches in Hong Kong and Toronto. So looking at buying real estate in Toronto, the process for buying for overseas investors has a little bit of a different deposit structure when you’re looking at real estate. So if you’re dealing with the overseas investors, it usually is a little bit of a greater deposit structure. So for example, if you’re looking at like a condo, condo development or a condo project, the minimum deposit for overseas investors would be around 30% to 35%.Compare that to a local investor, which should be around 20%. So getting a mortgage would be a little bit less for the overseas investor. but then at the same time, if you have, the necessary, like requirements such as Canadian citizen, or you have like a relative living here, or you have family living here, it makes the process a little bit simpler, but I would say, if you’re interested more about the mortgage, getting the mortgage side, I can definitely recommend someone to you guys. 

Again, I always like to work with people who work here who also have bank branches also in Hong Kong, like I said, HSBC, TD bank and RBC. They all have branches in Hong Kong. So it’s easier to start a bank account in both areas. And also when you’re departments.

Darren: I see, it sounds like you work a lot. It’s like, what else do you do, besides being like a real estate agent?

Gencan: For now, well, a personal hobby, I like to play basketball a lot. Lately I’ve been staying home a lot because of COVID-19. So, I’ve been cooking a lot in the home, learning new skills, taking some online courses. Yeah, it’s a big grind in Toronto. I haven’t stopped. There’s lots of activity coming back. So I’m happy to be here and, and talk to you, you know. Lots of Zoom meetings, lots of  webinars and stuff.

Darren: Yeah, cause like, you know, before I actually think about those questions to ask you, right. There’s actually a lot more. And it’s something that maybe for my personal interest, because I know I miss Toronto a lot and it’s something that  sometimes like, you know I just want to kind of like have an opportunity to think about, “Hey, what if I’m still in Toronto? How’s it going to be like, and what’s going on?” You know, there’s some things that it’s hard to learn just from the news. You have to sort of talk to someone to really have a better idea. So, you know, obviously we can do another clip because your insight so far, it’s a lot longer than I thought. What kind of takeaway do you want the audience to have from this video? 

Gencan: So I want to let everyone know that, Toronto is a very, very multicultural city. And, we have one of the most multicultural environments that you can find in the world. Not only in North America, we have a very welcoming, type of environment and we’re very nice. A lot of Canadians are very nice. We’re not discriminatory and we see that investing in Toronto is one of the more safe, havens that we’ve seen. And, having talked to different investors or representatives from different areas in the world, like I’ve talked to people in Hong Kong, New York, and, in Australia too, I feel like the environment of Canada poses a very good and balanced approach to a lot of different areas. So, like I mentioned previously, healthcare education, and public transit. The people who are living here, I think, it just combined to have a very balanced approach of investor haven, which I think, safetiness in your investment, is very important. And I feel that if you invest in a place that you can find peace in and have a stable growth, I think that’s very enticing for a lot of investors. Like for people in Hong Kong, I want to tell people in Hong Kong, there’s lots of people, lots of Hong Kong people in Toronto with a lot of establishments being a Hong Kong person here. I’d love to see more Hong Kong people in Toronto. I welcome you here because we need more of you guys. We need more Hong Kong people here to develop a bigger group here. So, I’d like to welcome you, you guys, if you’re ever interested and again, like, being in real estate and, having lived here, I consider myself like a city guide. So if you have any other questions about anything related to Toronto, feel free to ask me any time.

Darren: So for the people who want to reach out to you and learn more about, you know, Toronto real estate, what are some methods that you suggest to them to reach out to you? 

Gencan: Yeah. you can email me at my email. I believe the email will be provided on the website. or you can Wechat me or WhatsApp. I usually respond within 30 minutes. I try to really keep that, it’s something that’s really important to me. So, yeah, I respond usually quite quick so just a quick text or email is good for me.

Darren: Yeah, no, like, I just want to say like, thanks. You know, bring me down the memory lane again. And this is a lot more insightful than I expected because you know this is a lot, you know, thinking about how Toronto is, explaining the neighborhoods. So I really want to appreciate you and I’m sure the audience also appreciates your efforts so far. So thanks so much for your time. And then I hope to do another second episode with you. And I hope that you can join us next time too.

Gencan: Yeah, that’d be great. I hope I didn’t bore anyone and you’ll learn a little bit, and if you want to learn more again, feel free to contact me anytime. 

Darren: Great. Okay. So next time then. Thank you. Thanks so much for your time. 

Gencan: Thanks Darren. Take care. 

Darren: You too. Bye.







Gencan:當然。所以是的,嘿,Darren。謝謝你邀請我。我叫Gencan。我是在多倫多的房地產經紀人。我們和我的一個合夥人,也是我的兄弟,一起在多倫多一家名為 Landpower real estate的房地產經紀公司工作。我們結合了15年獲獎的房地產經驗。








Gencan: 那麼,科技產業,你會發現在多倫多有兩個主要領域。所以,在主要的市中心,正如我多次提到的,那裡是大部分就業的地方。而世界上大多數科技巨頭的主要總部,如穀歌、亞馬遜、雅虎、優步,都集中在市中心覈心區。很多人,很多公司的總部搬到那裡,是因為你有所有的生活方式標準,所以你有所有的頂級餐廳步行距離你有一個湖濱。科技行業的人真的很喜歡享受生活,你知道的,比如穀歌擁有世界上最好的總部,最好的內飾,所以我認為生活方式與科技公司想搬到多倫多的目標有很大的關係,因為我們有很好的生活方式。食物也是市中心一個非常重要的方面。我們有一些最好和最多樣化的餐廳。所以我認為生活方式明智,你知道,傾聽海濱的聲音,這對搬到多倫多的人非常重要。我想說的第二個地方是滑鐵盧。滑鐵盧離多倫多大約一個半小時。但你不能不談滑鐵盧就談多倫多的科技產業或加拿大的科技產業。所以滑鐵盧實際上是Rim的故鄉,Rim是黑莓的原始製造商。所以滑鐵盧實際上在加拿大和世界上培養了大量的科技人才,因為他們有滑鐵盧大學西部大學最好的課程,所以基本上是多倫多和滑鐵盧這兩個地區刺激了科技產業的增長。


Gencan:所以,當你談論高估或低估的領域時,我會說那些總是有潜在潜力的領域。當我們談論高估的時候,你不能忘記還有很多被低估的地方。這也是另一個極端。所以在多倫多被高估的地區,我想說有相當多的地區,原因是因為每個人都只投資於他們知道的領域。所以在多倫多,如果它靠近CN Tower,或者靠近金融區,如果它靠近多倫多大學,大多數人都會投資於他們所知道的領域,所以這些領域是很多人投資的地方,但是在過去的幾年裏,因為很多人在這些領域投資,可能已經形成了飽和因為價格一直很貴。它總是投資於一個非常成熟的社區,有這些,你知道,這些標誌性的標誌性建築。所以我覺得如果你看的是一個高增長的地區,它不會出現在多倫多所有的主要熱點地區,我會看看郊區。所以當我談到外裙時,我談到了多倫多的邊緣地區。距離市中心約20分鐘車程,可乘坐公共交通,或通過高速公路,或在那些有火車或其他金融中心的地區修建更多的政府基礎設施。所以我們覺得多倫多每個人都知道多倫多的主要地區,或者大多數人都知道。但作為房地產經紀人,我們真的想找到最有價值的領域。囙此,我們認為被低估的領域,以及我們認為可以讓我們的客戶獲得最大利潤的領域。




Gencan:很多。我想我提到過一對,不管是不是和大學很接近,如果是的話靠近金融區,如果靠近不同的地鐵站,我認為重要的是瞭解投資者的意向和偏好。有些事情我通常喜歡把它分解給我的客戶。所以TTC或公共交通是我經常和客戶談論的一件大事,因為多倫多是事實上,像一個GTA一樣走路是無法到達的。GTA有很多不同的小部件,你實際上需要一輛車。就像香港,就像香港或亞洲,在大多數南亞都市,大多數都市通過捷運或火車連接,但在多倫多,像在某些地區,你必須有車,你必須開車到高速公路或有通道都市不同地區的當地便利設施。例如,像馬卡姆這樣的地方,你必須開車去因為如果你坐TTC或公共交通,可能需要一個半小時。所以我認為海外投資者必須做的一些事情考慮一下過境,因為它確實不同。北美的交通系統和亞洲的交通系統是完全不同的。所以我認為這是第一件事。另一件事是談論學校。那麼什麼樣的學校呢投資者傾向於什麼?多倫多有很多不同的學校,當我談到學校時,我想談談大學,因為那是最重要的學校之一在GTA地區很重要,但每個學校都有它本身的好處,是更好的項目,更好的主要項目。你說過皇后大學,就像這個節目一樣棒極了。但正如我之前提到的,比如滑鐵盧大學(University of Waterloo)這樣的學校,既有利於金融,也有利於工程,更像是一個以科技為基礎的史詩般的職業生涯。然後是漢密爾頓,就像麥克馬斯特大學,這對商業非常有利。然後是的,你的大學對一切都有好處。所以我想知道你想投資的學校類型或者像那些想讓孩子在特定領域投資的客戶,我認為這非常重要。最後是就業。就業真的很重要。我覺得還有很多,有很多不同的小地區,適合更流行的類型工作。多倫多的金融區,總部都在那裡。但是如果你在GTA的另一個區域靠近Markham,你有更多類型的勞工工作或不同類型的科技工作大多倫多地區。所以我認為工作明智,TTC,還有學校在評估機會時也非常重要。




Gencan: 是的,所以在多倫多,房地產市場實際上非常強勁。所以,去年的11月、12月,和去年後期一樣,實際上有很多文章在談論2020年的市場會有多熱。我們有一個非常火爆的市場,我們實際上已經做好了準備,可能是過去十年中最好的一年,就像2017年一樣,我們度過了一個非常火爆的一年。到了2020年,我們會說,哇,這真是太瘋狂了,我們可能會有比2017年更好的一年,我們會有同樣的買家心態。所以這絕對是一個賣方市場。所以很多人買,需求是瘋狂的。而且出現了很多多次報價的情况。所以很多人出價過高,價格也很高。當時很多人都賣了,但是COVID-19撞了,很多關於購買的恐懼突然停止了,只是暫停了。所以當COVID-19在多倫多被擊中時,它的攻擊速度有點慢。和世界上許多國家和都市一樣,它突然激增,基本上我們的都市决定進行都市緊急救援,幾乎停止了所有不必要的服務。所以當我們談到不必要的房地產其實是一項必不可少的服務,但非必要的服務基本上就像商場、廣場、很多小棕櫚樹店一樣,他們都停了下來。所以,它幾乎讓整個COVID-19佔領了整個多倫多。所以,結果,很多人最終呆在家裡,失業了,他們不能去工作,很多餐館生意不好。我們的市場基本上連續兩個月下跌。正如你所知道的,作為前幾年買東西的人,現在想賣掉,這對他們來說是非常困難的。作為賣方,我們看到在這段時間內,市場下跌了50%左右,這實際上是一個非常好的時機。所以,回答你的問題,這實際上是一個非常好的時機,投資者可以進來,如果他們有錢的話。所以總有兩面性。每當經濟衰退時,投資者總是有機會的。所以,那些有錢又願意馬上搬進一個地方的投資者,就成了購房者以折扣價進場購買大量房產的好機會。所以這在三四月份發生了很多。然而,這對賣家來說真的很糟糕,賣家真的看到了一個非常大的下降。所以他們真的有點像棍子的壞端。然而,在多倫多發生的一件有趣的事是,多倫多真的沒有像我們看到的經濟衰退那樣出現大幅下降。所以通常情况下,我們的都市會出現真正的衰退。在經濟中,我們實際上看不到需求,我們會看到供應下降,一切都會下降。但實際上我們看到多倫多的需求非常有彈性。囙此,我們實際上看到了非常健康的需求,像很多經紀人一樣,他們已經準備好了對很多房產和賣家發起攻擊,因為他們沒有以前那麼多的房源,價格實際上變得更加穩定了。囙此,當掛牌量較少、較低時,買家的需求量仍然很高。所以實際上價格並沒有下降太多。所以不要說太久,但需求實際上已經超過了COVID-19的危害。所以實際上,價格還是相對穩定的。如此快的5月和6月,我們實際上看到了一個平衡和更多的活動,價格回到正常水准。所以我們在多倫多看到的是一個非常有趣的州。而且,我確實對需求做出了貢獻,我也為移民和遷往多倫多的人做出了貢獻。同時,你也看到香港有很多抗議活動,我敢肯定,你知道,他們在其他國家,比如義大利,像世界上很多其他國家,不把自己的都市看作安全港,但實際上把多倫多看作是一個更安全的避風港。所以我們實際上看到了很多人的興趣和回來的人。所以是的,我們真的很驚訝。我們真的很驚訝多倫多的彈性,所以雖然公寓價格下跌了一點,但它現在正在回升,實際上。







Gencan: 現在更像是一個都市嚮導。



Gencan: 是啊,所以關於抵押貸款的話題,和讓本地買家購買房地產有點不同,當你每次談論抵押貸款時我有一個海外投資者對在這裡購買房地產感興趣,我總是把他們推薦給一家也在香港。所以,當我們談論香港和多倫多時,我想到的是道明銀行(TD Bank)或滙豐銀行(HSBC),或加拿大皇家銀行(RBC),它們在香港都有分行香港和多倫多。所以看看在多倫多買房地產的過程當你在看房地產時,海外投資者的存款結構略有不同。所以如果你在和海外打交道投資者,這通常是一個更大的存款結構。例如,如果你從公寓、公寓開發或公寓項目來看,海外投資者的最低存款額約為30%至35%對當地投資者來說,應該是20%左右。所以抵押貸款對海外投資者。但同時,如果你有,必要的,比如加拿大的要求公民,或者你有親戚住在這裡,或者你有家人住在這裡,這會使過程簡單一點,但我會的比如說,如果你對抵押貸款更感興趣,我可以向你們推薦一個人。再說一次,我總是喜歡和在香港也有銀行分行的人一起工作,就像我說的,滙豐銀行、道明銀行和加拿大皇家銀行。他們在香港都有分公司。所以在這兩個領域開設銀行帳戶更容易。當你是部門的時候。













Thanks for being with us. See you next time!

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights – Standing on the shoulders of real estate experts

Denzity Insights is an ongoing project. In the future, we will invite more experts to share their work with us

It is never an easy decision to purchase real estate, especially when you don’t know a lot about this industry. You may wonder, is there a way to get in touch with some sort of real estate experts and learn more about a specific topic regarding real estate equity investment? Guess what, there is! Denzity Insights is a new education video series launched by Denzity. Real estate experts from all over the world are invited to speak with Denzity founder Darren Wong through an online meeting and share their professional experiences of a particular aspect of the real estate industry. We hope that through Denzity Insights, real estate investment knowledge can be more approachable for everyone. 

Like doctors, each real estate expert has their specialties. It can be a particular oversea market like the Vietnam real estate market or Malaysian real estate market, or something more interesting like Feng Shui or artificial intelligence in real estate. In each episode, our real estate experts will focus primarily on one to two topics and discuss it in depth with Darren. Thanks to his professional background in the real estate industry, Darren will guide audiences through a journey of knowledge exploration. To suit the need of different audiences, Denzity will also provide a bilingual transcript of these videos, making it easier to comprehend even as a real estate equity investment beginner.

As a real estate amateur, there are way too many channels nowadays to get information. However, here at Denzity, we help you to gather everything you need. Reliable and renowned real estate agents and agencies, the communication channels with other people in the real estate community, and a comprehensive yellow page to find every kind of expert you need. Now the Denzity Insights series can be a good starting point for you to learn something new in the real estate field. If you’re interested in a particular topic, let’s say the Malaysian real estate market. Still, you’re not sure where or how to get started, we recommend you to start watching the “A Guide To The Malaysia Real Estate Market with Amos Lim” to lay a strong foundation on this topic. Then you can make use of that knowledge to do a Google search, or talk to a real estate agent in real life. 

Why not start right off with Googling then, you may ask. While it may be convenient and easy to look something up online and get billions of results in seconds, the information you find may be too generic, or even inaccurate and useless. Without some basic knowledge on that matter, people may easily be misled, or even worse, scammed. In these situations, it is best to seek help from an expert. Through Denzity Insights, you can communicate with real estate experts and raise specific questions. Our experts will also answer each question in detail and give practical tips, instead of providing generic advice like those you may find in a random search result on Google. In the comments section, you can also interact with the real estate community sharing a similar interest. Our real estate community can not only provide the community support you need, but it also helps us to monitor the performance of our experts to maintain our credibility. 

Denzity Insights is an ongoing project. In the future, we will invite more experts to share their work with us. If you have any questions or any particular topic you’re interested in, please feel free to send us an email or leave a comment on our site.

Real Estate Knowledge

Top 4 tips for choosing the best real estate agent

Top 4 tips for choosing the best real estate agent
Choosing a real estate agent is like choosing a date. There are too many things to consider, and if you choose someone that is not right for you, then you are going to suffer for quite a while

Choosing a real estate agent is like choosing a date. There are too many things to consider, and if you want someone that is not right for you, then you are going to suffer for quite a while. Well, Denzity may not be a dating expert, but we know how to find the right real estate agent for you. Based on what we sourced from our experts and community, here are our top 4 tips. 

Do solid market research

There are too many real estate agents out there, so it is essential to do market research before you go to talk to one. The traditional way to find a real estate expert is through a real estate agency, or maybe one of your friends has a personal recommendation. Yet, it can be harder to find an expert with oversea market experience. In recent years, Hongkongers start to expand their investments to overseas real estate markets, especially South East Asian real estate markets like the Vietnam real estate market and the Malaysian real estate market. Although large-scale real estate agencies can usually recommend a few experts to you, it is easier to find these experts online. With Denzity, you can browse names and contact details of real estate experts from all over the world. It is also a platform for experts to share their professional insights. At the same time, as consumers, the decision-making process cannot be easier with so much information all laid out in one single site.

Make use of technology 

Technology makes our lives easier, and that is true for real estate equity investment as well. In the time of the coronavirus pandemic, we are getting used to communicating through online messenger apps. You can talk to experts through online meetings to stay safe and healthy, and it also saves a lot of time. With apps like Skype and Zoom, you can also arrange a meeting with more than one expert to enrich your consultation sessions. 

Learn and make specific requests

It is hard to find the right expert if you don’t know what you are looking for. Before meeting your expert, it is crucial to list out your goals, your budget, and the potential concerns you may have. However, if you don’t have any idea and you’re just looking for some consultation, you can check out Denzity and its latest education series Denzity Insights for some basic knowledge. Through talking to real estate experts from different fields, Denzity allows readers to learn about a specific topic in the real estate industry. With a solid knowledge base, it will be easier for you to explain your requests to your expert, and more accessible for them to fulfil your needs. 

Communication, communication and communication

People always say the most important thing about real estate is location, location, and location. But during the decision-making process of choosing a real estate agent, it is more like communication, communication and communication. Even with the right real estate agent for you, you still have to communicate frequently and actively to get all your concerns covered. Don’t be shy to tell agents your requests. With Denzity, you can make good use of the Q&A session to ask questions and interact with different experts. What’s more, you can interact with other real estate investors. It is always nice to have some community support, and who knows, you can make some new friends! We hope these tips can help you to find The One real estate expert you’re dreaming of. Do reach out to us and let us know your comments

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Overseas Real Estate Investing & PropTech with Ariel Shtarkman

Overseas Real Estate Investing & PropTech with Ariel Shtarkman

Connect with Ariel:


When it comes to investment, information is key, especially when you are looking into investing in a foreign market. Accurate information can definitely help you understand the market better and assist you to make the right choices to have a smooth investing experience. But how do we gather reliable information, to begin with?

In this episode, Ariel Shtarkman talks about networking and technology, the two important factors to take into consideration while investing overseas. She also shares her experience and knowledge regarding the mentioned topic.

  • Why invest in overseas Real Estate?
  • How do you assess the risks involved?
  • Is overseas investing really worth the risk?
  • How do markets vary location wise?
  • Where does technology come into play?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.


Real Estate Private Equity: Real Estate Private Equity (REPE) is a type of real investment firm that takes capital from outside investors and invests mostly in commercial properties such as, hotels or malls and sells them after a certain period of time for a profit.

Structure finance: Much like mortgages or loans, structure finance is also a financial tool or instrument. But, unlike normal loans, structure finance is used by larger corporations, organizations or entities. The requirements vary case to case.

Due diligence: Simply put, due diligence is the investigation of the financial world. It is when a background or security check is performed on another party before making a transaction.

[Real estate investment] title: Real estate investing is investing in a property or asset, whether in the form of lands or buildings. The investment can include buying, owning or renting a property and using or selling it for profit.

Uran Land Institute: Urban Land Institute (ULI) is an organization that consists of 40,000 members worldwide, who are involved in any sort of professions related to Real Estate.  ULI members are dedicated to provide free research and education platforms to learn about the responsible use of land.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!



Darren: Hey Ariel, thanks for coming to the show. 

Ariel: Hi. 

Darren: Hi. So for the audience that don’t know about you, I’ll give you a little bit of an introduction from my side, because I think I met you three years ago. And then there was a talk about the future of Prop tech and you were one of the panelists on it. So I remember I reached out to you and asked you some questions. And somehow we just kept meeting up afterwards, something that is kind of interesting that after so many years, I still ask you questions about what’s going on in the prop tech space and real estate space. So it’s good to have you here.

Ariel: Thank you so much for inviting me, happy to be here.

Darren: Yeah. So for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them about you and your work?

Ariel: Sure. So My Name Is Ariel Shtarkman and I’m originally from Israel. I’ve been in Hong Kong now for 12 years. I started my career in real estate direction and real estate private equity in New York after graduating from Columbia Business School, and the fund I worked for, transferred me here in 2008 for a very exciting position in real estate, private equity. Of course, we all know what happened at the end of 2008 and 2009. So, a financial crisis happened and I was very fortunate to move to Citibank here in Hong Kong, and in Citibank and at several positions, I helped restructured some of those special situation deals in real estate. And I was involved in the structured finance team arranging primarily debt financing for real estate companies across Asia. 

A few years ago, I wanted to go my own route and always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So I started my own business, actually, several lines of business, if you will, I’m an investor in real estate, and I had a portfolio of assets in Hong Kong, which I actually sold a couple of years ago, and I’m always looking for more interesting opportunities. I have a separate venture in western New York real estate, with Asian family offices. And though those are more club deals, private equity type deals structured into the class of New York. And lastly, in the last, I would say 36 months since women really, I started to get more and more involved in the prop tech space. First, it was very interesting to me to understand how technology and innovation will change our really traditional industry. And as a learned more I realize that the only way to really understand how technology and real estate merge is to become an investor myself. So I’m an angel investor in several prop tech startups. I only focus on Prop tech in all my angel investing VC ventures, and we can talk more about kind of what opportunities I’m looking for. But, um, I would say in the last year, that became a much bigger portion of what I do, whether it’s constantly meeting startups, other investors and understanding the eco system and how we can push for innovation in real estate.

Darren: That’s cool. Because I think that when I’m preparing the material to have this recording with you it’s really a wide range looking at your resume. It’s like you have very vast experiences in the real estate space. And then you decided to digitize like look into this whole space. So this conversation is meant for looking at that because not only do you have those experience, but you actually do a lot of things cross border, you’re from Hong Kong, you’re in Hong Kong now, but you actually have deals from overseas, which is something that is very interesting, because you know, our channel is for overseas investors to find real estate opportunities. So it’s really exciting to have this. So for beginners today-

Ariel: I think, yeah, for your point, it is impossible to do cross border investments now without technology without a platform like yours, because it will be extremely difficult and inefficient really and this is where technology can play a major, major role.

Darren: Yeah, thanks for your shout out because it’s something that, you know, I think a lot of players are trying to do to bridge the gap inbetween of the whole ecosystem. So hopefully, you know, people can have more, understand what’s going on, know what is better, find people they can trust cross border. Well, so for beginners who are not familiar with real estate investing, right, would you mind telling them about why people would invest in oversea real estate market? Because it’s not easy? Because you can always invest somewhere close to you, maybe 20-30 minutes walk away from you, but why would you choose all the way from miles away or have to globe away sometimes?

Ariel: Sure. I think there are two main reasons really, one is of course portfolio diversification and my sort of network accompasses primarily private investors and family offices. And even in the last year since Hong Kong had been through some turbulence, and then COVID-19 situation, a lot of those investors while no one is planning to leave Hong Kong, but investors are looking to diversify outside. Real estate is something that traditionally Asian investors really love and understand. And I feel that that’s almost a natural segway into diversification, investing in real estate abroad, of course, easier said than done. As I mentioned, it is very, very difficult. But diversification is of course, one main reason. And second, I would say, looking for better returns. Now looking for better returns is tricky because as we know, Hong Kong real estate is very efficient, is very stable and it’s very, very expensive. I mean, even since the events of last year, plus the Covid-19 situation, well, of course, rents have been going down in some parts of the sector. But overall, you don’t see distress, you don’t see the market, significantly correcting, meaning that a lot of the investors think that it’s a little bit too expensive, a little bit too unaffordable, and they’re looking for opportunities and to without better words, to make more money on their real estate. Now, I think that’s a very important component of it, of course, risk. And if you are going to another country, how do you assess the risk of investing there versus investing in Hong Kong for example, where it is familiar mark, that’s 20 minutes from the home probably. But it’s a 2% or 3% capital. And that’s, of course a much bigger discussion. It’s by country, by city, by location, and etc. But I think that more and more investors are willing to take the bet for those stories. Diversification and better returns.

Darren: That’s good. Yeah, I think it’s good to have a overview understanding because a lot of people are always asking us like, why would you need a portal to find real estate oversea real estate investment? I was like, because you never thought of that. There’s a lot more out there that you just have more options as a whole. So, for your experience, right, I’m sure you’re one of the best people to talk to-

[cut off – break in between, removed 1-2 min of small talk] 

So for someone who has your experience right, I’m sure you have a lot of experience with you know, understanding what it takes to invest overseas. So how is it different compared to locally when it comes to the process and what are some things that you should be aware of for investors?

Ariel: Well, of course, in every real estate deal, you need to do pretty significant due diligence. Now, of course, if you live 20-30 minutes an hour away from the asset you will buy, physical due diligence is pretty easy. You just go to the area, and one of the things about real estate which will never go away is that the physical notion, right, a building on the right side of the street might be priced completely different from a building on the left side of the street because of many different reasons, better access, better views, Feng Shui, etc, etc. Right? So being able to see real estate for ourselves is of course, a very important benefit of investing locally. The rest of the due diligence, whether it’s financial due diligence, wonderful converse, models, documents, understanding the title etc, etc. I mean, although trickiest thing, whether you invest in Hong Kong or you invest in somewhere else. And now the really important aspect to take into account, of course, is the actual process and the related taxation. That’s a big thing. When you invest in New York, you’re structuring of taxes for a foreign investor is crucial, because otherwise all your return will be eaten by taxes. It’s not the case in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, the tax structure it’s much more favorable to investor say, and you don’t need to spend so much time figuring out well, what’s the equal thing to use so and of course that goes by geography. I would say the less transparent the geography like say it’s Vietnam, Cambodia and versus investing in Canada, right? You probably need to do much more due diligence not only on the asset itself, but on title, any regulatory issues, you need to be aware of who’s going to manage your assets? That’s another big thing, right? I mean, I invest with a local partner, or I invest in myself. So, you know, those are all many different components that go into investing in real estate. Now, I would say that the process is not dissimilar, whether investing assets in your local market versus outside, but what you’re hoping for is that you will have channels, trust channels. You can get all that information for the asset estimate abroad, because it’s obviously much easier to get access to information in your local market. 

Darren: I think that’s pretty good. I think you do a lot better job than I do when I explain to people the difference between oversea investing and locally so thanks for that, and we’ll copy yours for sure.

Ariel: No problem, any time. That’s why I’m your advisor.

Darren: Exactly, here you go. So you know that this channel, for a lot of people who are watching this a lot of them are Asian investors. And I know that like, you know, there’s a lot of different types of investors, Asian investors, I’ve met one of the many. Through the experience right, can you summarize what the Asian investors are usually like like their appetite and then location wise or certain type of risk and reward that they would like to have?

Ariel: Absolutely. And the thing again, I have a very focused expertise in what they do. So I haven’t covered all the markets. Definitely not globally, but that would give you sort of tidbits of information. So first, Asian investors and I’m talking about private investors family central. They love physical assets, much more than they love structure projects. And I know we’ll get structured products in later questions. What they mean by that they would like to be a part of a deal, investing in hard assets, rather than investing in fun. I mean that vehicles have been a bit popular, more popular in recent years. But I think that from my experience, at least, investors here want access to assets themselves, not to be removed several layers. So that’s number one. I would say in terms of geography I mean I’ve seen here investors who only invest in UK for example, as they pass for diversification. They know UK though obviously Hong Kong and UK have historical ties. They have been in the market for a long time. They don’t need to go to London. It’s not just London, it’s London and secondary cities, their family there. So a lot of people are very comfortable by now, investing in UK, because they just been doing that for a while, have the relationships and understand the tax structure which actually keeps changing but still, again, very comfortable. So they’re not moving from going to other places. Really no matter what the price in the UK is because they just feel it’s a good balance between what they have here and foreigners. There are some investors who prefer much more opportunistic assets, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, have all been kind of the favorite countries in a way for this type of investors. My reservations with that person – again, I’m an investor In real estate on a personal level myself and I run my office, I’m not sure how to quantify the risk, because the rewards is there. I mean, you see if you compare dollar for dollar, and of course, you get the great fortune, right, much better than in an established market. How do you quantify the risk? Again, if I have the right channel, to invest into those economists into those markets, and in all the due diligence I’m doing is, you know, enough or someone, a partner, like a partner on your platform, for example. If I can get that comfort, then I would be much more kin to say, you know, what I would like to allocate a portion of my portfolio in the kind of the more interesting, I would say, countries on the risk reward spectrum. And, of course, the US that was a big theme in the last 10 years, I would say since Global Financial Crisis real estate prices in the US took an unprecedented hit. And of course smart shoe masters saw opportunities, went to the US, the market of more than recovered its until COVID, I would say it’s been doing record absolutely record levels. I’m not sure what will happen now. Because I would say this started grabbing in the last 24 months, Asian investors overall took a break from looking at the US. Again, number of reasons. First of all, I think the US China trade war, sort of, even if it’s not directly affecting real estate, or directly affecting the Hong Kong investors. Some investors get nervous and they want to see how that plays out. Second, pricing again was just too expensive, and then you layer on top the taxation that you have in the US, which is much higher than here in Hong Kong, and it just became too expensive to go halfway around the globe and look for opportunities. And I think we will see how COVID-19 and the fact of real estate will play out. Real estate industry is ___ industry. We haven’t seen it yet. Because for example, retail in the US, took a dramatic hit I mean, just in the last two months with several degrees, all declaring bankruptcy meaning they are going to close shop, meaning you have more vacancies. Now again, retail has been suffering in the US for a while. I think it’s kind of like the last nail in the coffin. Will retail go away forever? Absolutely not. But there will be that restructuring period in the market that I played in New York, again, too early to tell because New York was shut down for two and a half months. And I’m involved in a construction project in New York, which basically construction stopped for almost three months and just now slowly reopened. How will it play out in terms of pricing and opportunities? We’re not sure yet, but it’s a wait and see. But I think to summarize kind of what I just said, again, I cannot touch every country because I don’t have experience in every country. I think that’s when that’s settled, ie., post Covid, I think that individual investors seeking here, whether it’s in Hong Kong or Asia, will be actually more interested to invest in other parts of the world. And whether it’s US whether it’s UK, whether it’s other parts of Europe, Asia, because everyone realized in this crisis, while in this crisis, the diversification is extremely important. And how you diversify in real estate, either you must across asset classes, but probably you need to diversify your job.

Darren: I see that’s a pretty good explanation, I actually want to know because like you cover a couple things, right? Like the recession, the virus spread and all that. And then obviously, your skill set is focusing on New York market, actually, would you mind like, giving the audience more detail about your work in New York? And then, you know, like, obviously, you covered some of your opinion on you know, this whole effect so far. So how would you plan to like, you know, defend or change a little bit or even look at different markets because of right now, where we are at the moment?

Ariel: So for me, it’s a little bit too early to say. I think because of what I mentioned we haven’t seen the dust settle. We haven’t seen valuations change in this world that way, we haven’t seen any distress again yet. I think me personally, the big thing for me is absolutely we need diversification. I’m not sure if my next deal in terms of diversification will be in the US actually, probably not. For the reasons I mentioned, I also worry about the trade war, upcoming elections, taxation. It’s tricky. And However, it’s also a question of really the price and where the market is. So I feel like a lot of investors definitely understand that they need to rethink the diversification strategies more than before, but where will it be where those countries, where those next purchases will be? Everyone is sort of looking for and it’s tricky, right? Because you want to get in at the lowest price. Always especially because everyone has been waiting for some cool down of prices. And that’s a thing globally, for a while. The question is, are you going to go in if New York _______, just an example. valuations don’t bite, whatever 10%-15%. And I’m not saying that this will happen, but just as an example, or, you know, Japan and other markets that a lot of investors from Hong Kong particular have been very interested and very active. Many people already have assets there and will we see sort of another surge of investors going to Tokyo, or going to Japan overall, because that is extremely cheap plus you might be able to see opportunities that you haven’t seen 24 months ago. So I know it’s like, I don’t like not responding directly to the question, but the reality I think we are a bit in that wait and see game.

Darren: I think that’s great because like, I think that all the world class investors that I know so far are very blunt about like, “Hey, you know, the world’s huge, you know, there’s a lot of things to look at. And then there’s no point of, you know, saying that you know everything,” and in fact that I think usually the world class investors are the ones that keep learning, understanding that there are things that they keep learning, understanding what stage they are in. So I think that it’s very refreshing to hear from you because it’s obvious with someone who has experienced like you, you will say out loud, “Hey, you know, it’s too early, you know, there are a lot of thing you need to look at, you never know what’s going to happen.” And then that’s why we have these kinds of channels because you know, there’s so much to learn, the more you learn, you realize there’s so much you don’t know. So I’ll shift a little – Sorry, sorry. Keep going.

Ariel: I just one point that I think is actually very relevant to what you do. I think that, you know, will, at least maybe in the prop tech circles, but but really in the real estate circle as well, one knowledge that post COVID-19 Real Estate will have to innovate much more than before. And innovation is across board, whether it’s the way we invest in real estate, the way revealed, the way we manage real estate. So it’s kind of adhering to the standards now, in terms of social distancing, and cleanliness, etc. And, basically, technology is really our friend, not a disruptive technology only will make it better. And I think that this is a big theme. That’s a thinking thing I would say, that investors are looking at. And then of course, consequentially is what are the geographies and asset classes that will be interesting, taken that technological advances. In other words, I mean, if I’m investing now in a market, which is kind of less developed, but what are my options in terms of I mean, others assets be built for the 21st century, or it’s still a little bit backwards? You know, again, I don’t have answers to this question. But I think that this is definitely sort of those big questions that investors in real estate are asking themselves much more than before.

Darren: It’s something that like is very interesting because it seems like a lot of people are also looking into tech right now in real estate, traditional real estate professionals, which is interesting, right? Because you have been really active with groups like, ULI (UrbanLand Institute) and prop tech space, actually what’s the reason behind that, like, how did you get to that realm, you know, from a traditional background like yours before?

Ariel: I think, as I mentioned, I’m a very active member of Ergamind Institute, and I served as a

senior content advisor for Utiliza Pacific. And I sit on the Hong Kong committee and I’ve been involved. Actually, since Business School since I was a student in New York because the organization for real estate, definitely in the US, and then became a premier organization for real estate professionals here in Asia. When I moved to Asia, you know I was just starting here. I helped to start the Young Leaders Group and I was chair for some time, etc. And that’s been going on for I think the last five years. I’ve been through my role as a very active member of life. I’ve been sort of pushing this agenda of innovation. I mean, what’s next real estate? How do we bring those innovative ideas, real estate to our audience, to the network of real estate professionals across the sector, whether it’s investors, developers, brokers, architects, other service providers, right, so, and I think that the knowledge sharing, and the community building is crucial because, as I learned in the VC world, I think the VC world is much more collaborative, in a way than the traditional real estate; traditional real estate world, you know, everyone’s doing deals, and people don’t collaborate. Don’t get me wrong, and you need a lot of people to make a project success, whether it’s your investment professionals, the leasing brokers, the architects, the designers, of course, the owners, developers, the consultants, etc, etc. And so there is definitely a collaboration on the project level. But in this ____ it goes beyond that. It’s really a community of both the startups and the investors, and I’m trying to work together to push those successful ideas forward. And I think it’s really, really important. For me personally, I think, as a real estate professional to stay connected, and I don’t have answers. I don’t know that yet, but this is why you need a lot of interesting people, either in your industry or in sort of like those parallely becoming my industry as well.

Darren: So, you know, like, it’s interesting, because there are so many real estate platforms or property tech companies, you just happen to pop out, you know, kind of like, sprung out of nowhere for past couple years, and especially recently, right, it’s like in Hong Kong, I think just four to five real estate platform coming out this year. And then obviously mine, but you know, like, I just want to know, do you have any insight or ideas of why recently it’s been a big topic in real estate tech because this is something that I thought years before going into industry, I thought that this industry should be innovating years ago. But it’s only around now it’s when the whole industrys really starting, it’s like the little seeds just started sprouting a little bit. Do you have any viewpoints on that?

Ariel: I think particularly for Hong Kong, I think that there are a lot of really innovative people here. But on the real estate side, real estate has been having such a great run until last year. It’s almost that you didn’t need to innovate, I mean, as an owner in collecting rental checks, and everything was as normal. But I think the events of the last sort of 18 months shows that, well, we need to rethink how we look at our real estate. Again, technology, in my opinion, also get a little bit of a bad name with some of the owners or operators because, you know, we work for example, I mean that the builders disrupt of course, we’ll know what happened when we work, but you know, there is a lot of real estate industry that doesn’t like disruption. But technology in real estate doesn’t really bring disruption. It only brings wait for it brings collaboration, it brings ability to actually manage your assets better to understand what you have in your portfolio in a much better way to invest better, to, again, save costs, which is great. As a real estate investor, all I care about is really the bottom line of my asset. And if technology helps me to improve the bottom line, I’m interested. Right, and I think that back to sort of just a bit of a sidetrack to a question, but I think that what’s happened in the last, I’d say 18 months, there’s more and more discussion. In the real estate industry, well, we need to do something. We need to innovate. I think that COVID actually accelerated that on many levels. That’s why I think you see enough people now are doing more interesting things in real estate and trying to sort of figure out what is the next thing? What are the opportunities?

And the thing is you are coming out to talk about it with your platform at the right time, because people will be more willing to diversify. And I think that a lot of investors, I would say five years ago, I don’t think the market overall the Asian market was ready to invest in online platforms. I think that now people are more ready. Again, I cannot guarantee how many will be actually using the platform but you see my point, I think that it’s investor education.

Darren: I see. So you know, like, I know that you’d be working on several things before like Aqua Capital, Adam Assets. And I think that we chatted before, you know, you were thinking about having a prop tech fund or something like that. So how would you think all these tie together in terms of like, you know, moving forward?

Ariel: Well, I think for me, it’s natural progression really, I think that real estate will become more and more of an technology or technology savvy industry because it seems to die in this stage. So for me, you know, I’ve been always very passionate about real estate and about physical assets. And what’s interesting for me is how we make physical assets more compatible in a way with our smartphones, with our tablets, because we live digital lives, right, but how those digital lives connect to the physical space. And we met you know around those opportunites are so for me again I think it’s time for sort of an Asian based platform. It’s a VC platform, ideal platform, investing in startups only focused on prop tech. And there are a couple of platforms already but the thing is we’re still in early stages. It’s sort of an – natural progression how do I combine my personal investment experience really, the physical and the digital and bring them together?

Darren: I think that’s good because I already see that kind of merging together. And then, you know, you can say different businesses but the thing is in one, they’re just different kind of focuses. So what kind of take away would you like the audience to have from this video?

Ariel: Well, I think you know, what you like the audience to take away one of several things, I would say Prop tech and technology in real estate is huge. I think that now is the time to explore all the different options. Again, prop tech is a vast, vast industry. You and I talked about it many times. Yeah. I mean, I think what’s relevant is what are the solutions for the real estate investment development units. It can make them invest better, develop faster. Again, focus on the bottom line. What will help owners, operators, developers matters, and to stay competitive, right. I think another takeaway is that real estate investing in real estate growth is also probably here to stay and this trend will accelerate. Now, what I hope to see from your platform is that it’s a really a way for investors situated in Hong Kong learn about all those different markets that you will have, and seeing you know what, “actually, I’m feeling comfortable for this particular channel, I can do it.” And I feel comfortable, I understand my risks, and my rewards, etc, etc. And I think that again, diversification is a big theme right now, not just in real estate but anywhere in portfolio composition. And because the market overall is predictable.

Darren: So, like, so for people who wants to know more about, you know, obviously, oversea real estate investing, or for example, let’s say an US market that you’re familiar with, and also for prop tech, how would we suggest them to reach out to you and talk to you further more about it.

Ariel: Well, they can – I’m not sure how you’re doing it through a platform and you can always reach out to me, again, through your platform because you have those, the advisor section and I’m always happy to connect with people interested in pretty much anything we talked about. Because again through my experience on the VC side, I think that community is although a bit of an overused word, but a very important word for us to learn from each other. Especially in this day and age.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. And obviously I’ll include all your contact information in the show notes, people can reach out to you and then I want to say thanks a lot and you play a really key part for how Denzity is becoming what it is today and then continuously I really hope that I keep learning from you because you know, a lot of times I’m not in my basement and then working a lot and asking you about advice about real estate investing overseas, and about the pin point that investors have to go through, more important thing how to innovate personally, I want to say thank you through this medium because I never really properly thanked you for that.

Ariel: No, thank you so much for that. And I mean, I’m excited for you guys. You know, you and I’ve been talking for a while. As I said five years ago, might be too early. Now, I think it’s exactly the right time. So you just need to capture the market properly.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. And then so yeah, I actually want to do a second part next time. We want to have a longer form to dive deeper about your experience because I think a lot of people that not only the audience’s, but also in terms of like myself and others I know always talk about how they want to know what it takes to be one of the best real estate investors. Obviously, you are one of the very well known investors and you’re really humble about it. So thanks a lot again for your time. And let’s do this another time. 

Ariel: No problem. Thank you Darren.

Darren: Yeah, have a great day. Thank you.

Ariel: Bye, thank you everyone.


Darren :嗨,Ariel,謝謝你來參加。


Darren :嗨。所以,對於不認識你的觀眾,我會從我這邊給你做一點介紹,因為我想我三年前認識你。然後有人談論房地產科技的未來,而你也是其中會議分享人。所以我記得我聯系過你問了你一些問題。不知怎麼的,後來我們一直見面,有點有趣很多年來,我還是會問你一些關於道具房地產科技領域和房地產領域的問題。有你在這裡真好。

Ariel: 非常感謝你邀請我,很高興來到這裡。

Darren :是的。所以對於那些可能不知道你是誰的觀眾,你介意告訴他們你和你的作品嗎?

Ariel:當然。所以我叫Ariel Shtarkman,我來自以色列。我在香港已經12年了。我的職業生涯始於紐約的房地產方向和房地產私募股權哥倫比亞商學院(Columbia Business School)畢業後,我所在的基金於2008年將我調到這裡,在房地產、私募股權領域獲得了一個非常令人興奮的職位。當然,我們都是知道2008年底和2009年底發生了什麼。所以,一場金融危機發生了我非常幸運,我來到香港的花旗銀行,在花旗銀行和一些職位上,我幫助重組了一些特殊情况房地產交易。我參與了結構性融資團隊,主要為亞洲各地的房地產公司安排債務融資。幾年前,我想走自己的路,一直想成為一名企業家。所以我自己創業了,實際上,有幾項業務,如果你願意的話,我是房地產投資者,我在香港有一個資產組合,實際上幾年前就賣了,我一直在尋找更有趣的機會。我在紐約西部的房地產有一家獨立的公司,在那裡有亞洲家族理財辦公室。儘管這些交易更多的是緊密俱樂部投資,但私募股權類型的交易屬於紐約類別。最後,在過去的36個月裏,我真的開始越來越多地參與到房地產科技領域。首先,我很有興趣瞭解科技和創新將如何改變我們真正的傳統產業。作為一個學識淵博的人我意識到要真正理解科技和房地產是如何融合的,唯一的辦法就是自己成為一名投資者。所以我是幾家公司的天使投資人房地產科技創業公司。在我所有的天使投資風險投資中,我只關注房地產科技,我們可以更多地討論我是什麼樣的機會正在尋找。但是,嗯,我想說,在過去的一年裏,這已經成為我所做工作的一個更大的部分,不管是不是經常會見初創企業、其他投資者,瞭解生態系統以及我們如何推動房地產創新。

Darren :那很酷。因為我覺得當我準備材料準備這段錄音的時候,簡現你的簡歷。就像你在房地產領域有著豐富的經驗。然後你决定數位化就像看整個空間一樣。所以這次談話是這是因為你不僅有這些經驗,而且實際上你做了很多跨境的事情,你來自香港,現在在香港,但實際上你有來自海外的交易,這是一個非常有趣的事情,因為你知道,我們的專注是為海外投資者尋找房地產機會。所以這真的很令人興奮。今天對初學者來說-


Darren :是的,謝謝你的呼喊,因為這是一件,]你知道,我認為很多玩家都在努力彌合整個生態系統之間的鴻溝。所以希望人們能有更多,明白發生了什麼,知道什麼更好,找到他們可以信任跨境人員專家。對那些不熟悉房地產投資的初學者來說,對吧你能告訴他們為什麼人們會投資海外房地產市場嗎?因為這不容易?因為你總是可以在離你很近的地方投資,也許步行20-30分鐘離你很遠,但為什麼你要選擇一路從幾英里以外的地方,或者有時不得不離開地球?


Darren :那很好。是的,我認為有一個全面的瞭解是很好的,因為很多人總是問我們,為什麼你需要一個平台來尋找房地產海外投資?我想,因為你從沒想過。總的來說,你有更多的選擇。所以,從你的經驗來看,對吧,我相信你是最好的談話對象之一-


Ariel: 當然,在每一宗房地產交易中,你都需要做相當重要的盡職調查。當然,現在,如果你住的地方離你將要購買的資產20-30分鐘的路程,實體盡職調查就相當容易了。你只要去一個地方,關於房地產的一個永遠不會消失的東西就是,一個實體概念,對吧,一個建築街道右側的價格可能與街道左側的建築完全不同,因為有許多不同的原因,更好的通道,更好的視野,風水等等,對嗎?囙此,能够親眼看到房地產當然是一個非常重要的好處本地投資。其餘的盡職調查,不管是財務盡職調查,檔案、理解產權等等。我的意思是,儘管最棘手的是,你是否在香港投資或者你投資其他地方。現在要考慮的真正重要的方面,當然是實際的過程和相關的稅收。這是件大事。當你在紐約投資時,你對外國投資者的稅收結構是至關重要的,因為否則你所有的回報都會被稅收吃掉。香港不是這樣。在香港,稅收結構對投資者更有利好吧,你不需要花那麼多時間去弄清楚,什麼東西是可以使用的,當然還有地理位置。我想說的是,地理上的透明度越低,比如說越南、柬埔寨和投資加拿大,對嗎?你可能需要做更多的盡職調查,不僅對資產本身,而且標題,任何監管問題,您都需要知道誰來管理您的資產?這又是一件大事,對吧?我意思是,我和當地合夥人投資,或者我自己投資。所以,你知道,這些都是投資於房地產。現在,我要說的是,這個過程並沒有什麼不同,無論是在本地市場投資資產還是在外部投資,但需要有可信的通路,信任通路。你可以得到資產評估的所有資訊在國外,因為在本地市場獲取資訊顯然要容易得多。

Darren :我覺得很不錯。當我向人們解釋海外投資和本地投資的區別時,我認為你做的比我做的好得多,所以謝謝你的幫助,我們一定會照搬你的。


Darren :沒錯,給你。所以你知道這個頻道,對很多看這個節目的人來說,很多人都是亞洲投資者。我知道,就像,你知道,有很多不同類型的投資者,亞洲投資者,我見過其中一個。根據你的經驗,你能總結一下亞洲投資者通常喜歡什麼樣的偏好,然後從地理位置或他們希望擁有的某種類型的風險和回報嗎?


Darren :我知道這是一個很好的解釋,我其實想知道,因為就像你說的一樣,有幾件事,對吧?就像經濟衰退一樣,病毒在蔓延。很明顯,你的技能集中在紐約市場,實際上,你介意給觀眾更多關於你在紐約工作的細節嗎?然後,你知道,很明顯,你提到了你的一些觀點,到目前為止,整個效果。那麼,你會怎麼想,你知道,捍衛或改變一點,甚至看看不同的市場,因為現在,我們現時的情况?

Ariel: 所以對我來說,現在說還為時過早。我想因為我提到的事情,我們還沒有看到解決。我們還沒有看到這個世界的估值會發生這樣的變化,我們也沒有再看到任何危機。我個人認為,對我來說,最重要的是我們絕對需要多樣化。我不確定我在多元化方面的下一筆交易是否會在美國進行,可能不會。出於我提到的原因,我還擔心貿易戰、即將到來的選舉、稅收。這很棘手。然而,這也是一個真正的價格和市場在哪裡的問題。所以我覺得很多投資者肯定明白,他們比以前更需要重新思考多元化戰略,但這些國家會在哪裡,下一步的購買會在哪裡?每個人都在尋找,這很棘手,對吧?因為你想以最低的價格進入。尤其是因為每個人都在等待價格的降溫。這是一個全球性的問題,一段時間。問題是,你會去紐約嗎,只是個例子。不管10%-15%,估值都不會有什麼影響。我並不是說這種情況會發生,只是作為一個例子,或者,你知道,日本和其他市場,香港的很多投資者都非常感興趣,非常活躍。很多人已經在那裡擁有了資產,我們會看到另一批投資者湧向東京,或者整體上去日本,因為這非常便宜,再加上你可能會看到24個月前沒有看到的機會。所以我知道,我不喜歡不直接回答這個問題,但事實上,我認為我們有點處於觀望狀態。

Darren :我覺得這很好,因為我認為,我所認識的所有世界級投資者都很直截了當地說,“嘿,你知道,世界是巨大的,你知道,有很多事情要看。然後,你知道,說你什麼都知道“事實上,我認為通常世界級的投資者是那些不斷學習的人,明白他們在不斷學習的東西,瞭解他們所處的階段。所以我覺得聽到你的消息很讓人耳目一新,因為很明顯,對於像你這樣有經驗的人來說,你會大聲說,“嘿,你知道,現在還太早,你知道,有很多事情你需要看,你永遠不知道會發生什麼。”這就是為什麼我們有這樣的通路,因為你知道,有這麼多要學的東西多,學的越多,你就會意識到還有很多你不知道的。所以我會稍微改變一下-對不起,對不起。繼續前進。


Darren :這是一件非常有趣的事情,因為現在似乎很多人也在研究房地產領域的科技,傳統的房地產專業人士,這很有趣,對吧?因為你在ULI(UrbanLand Institute)和房地產科技界組織非常活躍,實際上,背後的原因是什麼,比如,怎麼做到的你知道嗎,你是從你以前的傳統背景進入這個領域的?

Ariel:我想,正如我所提到的,我是Urban Land Institute的一名非常活躍的成員,我擔任LI高級內容顧問。我是香港委員會的成員,我也參與其中。實際上,自從我在紐約讀商學院的時候,因為房地產組織,肯定是在美國,而且隨後成為亞洲房地產專業人士的首選機构。當我搬到亞洲的時候,你知道我剛從這裡開始。我幫助培養了年輕的領導者集團和我曾擔任過一段時間的主席,等等。我想這已經持續了五年了。我經歷了我的角色生活中非常活躍的一員。我一直在推動這個創新議程。我是說,下一個房地產是什麼?我們怎麼帶這些創新理念,向我們的觀眾,向整個行業的房地產專業人士網絡,無論是投資者還是開發商,經紀人、建築師、其他服務提供者,對,所以,我認為知識共享和社區建設至關重要,因為,正如我在創投界學到的,我認為創投界比傳統的房地產界更具合作性;傳統的房地產界,你知道,每個人都在做交易,人們不合作。別誤會我,你需要很多人才能使項目成功,無論是您的投資專家、租賃經紀人、建築師、設計師,當然還有業主、開發商、顧問,等等,所以在項目層面上肯定有合作。但在這件事上,它不止於此。這真是一個社區無論是創業公司還是投資者,我都在努力合作,把這些成功的想法推向前進。我認為這非常非常重要。就我個人而言,我認為,作為一個房地產專業人士,要保持聯系,而我沒有所有答案。但這就是為什麼你需要很多有趣的人,無論是在你的行業或類似的類似的成為我的行業。

Darren :所以,你知道,比如,這很有趣,因為有太多的房地產平臺或房地產科技公司,碰巧突然冒出來,你知道,有點像,在過去的幾年裏,尤其是最近,對吧,就像在香港一樣,我想今年推出四到五個房地產平臺。當然有我的(平臺),但是你知道,就像,我只想知道,你對為什麼最近它成為房地產科技領域的一個大話題有什麼見解或想法,因為這是我在進入行業之前的幾年裏,我認為這個行業應該在幾年前進行創新。但只有現在才是整個行業真正開始的時候就像小種子剛開始發芽一樣。你對此有什麼看法嗎?


Darren :我明白了。所以你知道,比如,我知道你之前會做一些事情,比如Atom Capital,Atom Assets。我想我們之前聊過,你知道,你在考慮建立一個房地產科技基金之類的。你會怎麼想你們都知道嗎?


Darren :我覺得這很好,因為我已經看到了這種融合。然後,你知道,你可以說不同的業務,但事情是在一個,他們只是不同的重點。那麼你希望觀眾從這段視頻中得到什麼樣的收穫呢?


Darren :對那些想瞭解更多的人來說,很明顯,你知道,海外房地產投資,或者舉個例子,比如說,你熟悉的美國市場,以及prop-tech,我們會如何建議他們聯系你,和你進一步談這個問題。


Darren :是的,當然。很明顯我會把你們的聯繫方式都寫在節目記錄裏,各位我可以聯系您,然後我想說非常感謝您,您是一個非常關鍵的角色,它是如何成為今天的Denzity,然後持續我真的希望我不斷向你學習,因為你知道,很多時候我不在地下室工作,經常向你諮詢有關房地產投資的建議在海外,關於投資者必須經歷的關鍵點,更重要的是如何進行個人創新,我想通過這個媒介向您表示感謝,因為我從來沒有真正感謝過您。

Ariel: 不,非常感謝你。我是說,我為你們感到興奮。你知道嗎,你和我已經談了一段時間了。就像我五年前說的,可能為時過早。現在,我想是時候了。所以你只需要正確把握市場。

Darren :是的,當然。所以,是的,我真的想下一次做第二部分。我們想用一個更長的表格來深入瞭解你的經歷,因為我認為很多人不僅是觀眾的,而且像我和我認識的其他人一樣,總是在談論他們想知道成為一個最好的房地產投資者需要什麼。顯然,你是一個非常有名的投資者,你真的很謙虛。再次感謝您抽出時間。我們下次再來吧。

Ariel:沒問題。謝謝你,Darren 。

Darren :是啊,祝你今天愉快。謝謝您。

Ariel: 再見,謝謝大家。


Thanks for being with us. Feel free to share your feedback!