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Finding clients: Online VS face-to-face?

Finding clients, online or offline? It is now easier to find clients and promote oneself, but on the other hand, the market is getting much more competitive. Let’s find out which way is better.

As real estate agents, we both hate and love the Internet. On one hand, it is now easier to find clients and promote oneself, but on the other hand, the market is getting much more competitive. The online way or the traditional way, which one is better? Let’s find out.

Face-to-face real estate expert

👍🏻Easier to secure clients

Usually, when clients come to consult you face-to-face, they’re not just “browsing around”, especially for making an important financial decision like real estate equity investments. They probably heard about you from a friend and did a little market comparison and research before they decide to talk to you. Clients do not want to waste their time and effort to compare many agents and agencies. In these cases, all you have to do is be prepared for the meeting, show the clients your expertise and share your professional experiences. If your first impression is good enough, the clients will probably hire you right away.

👎🏻Limited marketing channels

Traditional marketing channels for real estate experts can be limited. There are not a lot of platforms, like Denzity, for you to showcase your expertise or communicate with your potential clients. So, it can be challenging to find clients. All you can do is treat every job seriously and hope that your clients will introduce you to their friends.

Online real estate expert

👍🏻More room for you to shine

Social media is a whole new planet for you to explore. With social media platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook, every individual can do their branding. Under this competitive environment, most real estate experts have a few areas of expertise, like Malaysia real estate market, Vietnam real estate equity investment, or feng shui. Agents can share their insights on these social media platforms and reach out to potential clients. Now there are even prop-tech platforms like Denzity where you can communicate with potential clients directly online. With the right techniques, you can get more exposure than ever.

👍🏻Easier communication

Online meeting technology has certainly improved greatly under the pandemic. It is now easy to do video calls no matter where you are, all you need is a stable Internet connection. You can easily communicate with your clients, answer their questions more promptly, and make a better impression. Agents can also join online real estate community groups to share their professional experiences and insights into real estate equity investment enthusiasts. Online communication allows agents to interact with other experts and learn from each other.

👎🏻Real estate agent market is more competitive

Clients can now browse the profile of thousands of real estate experts in like three hours with the Internet. This makes agents harder to stand out in the crowd. Yet, you can treat this as an opportunity to develop your specialty. Become an expert in a particular niche, like rental problems, oversea real estate equity investments, or immigration. This way you can attract more clients and stay competitive.

It is important to maintain your edge in this competitive environment. To do so, you have to invest in yourself. Be your public relations and marketing manager. Build your reputation by creating an online profile. Show the world what you’ve got. Join Denzity today and get your name listed on our extensive directory so that you can reach out to your potential clients. If you have anything particularly interesting you want to share, or you’re specialized in a certain area in real estate equity investment, let us know and maybe you will be the next real estate expert featured in our latest educational series Denzity Insights!

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Denzity Insights: Canada Real Estate Outlook 2020 With Robert Veerman


Canada Real Estate Outlook 2020 With Robert Veerman

Connect:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-veerman-26a88345/

The Canadian real estate market has been popular among overseas investors for the past few years. As some of our users asked us about how the COVID-19 and economic downtown have impacted the market, we think it’d be great to have a real estate expert to shed light on this topic. Today, we have Robert sharing his insights.

Robert Veerman is a commercial real estate broker at CBRE Canada. He buys and sells investment and development properties in Canada with a focus on Vancouver and Toronto.

  • The impact of COVID on the Canadian real estate market
  • The shift in investors preference
  • The outlook for the remainder of 2020
  • Any major macro influences that would affect the market

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Sources:

US Federal Reserve: https://www.federalreserve.gov

Anchored Retail:

Safe Haven Investment Destination: In simple words, safe-haven investments are investments that are promising investments and have a comparatively short period of market failure

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/safe-haven.asp

China Global Tax Scheme:

H1B Visa: The H1B visa is an employment visa issued by the US government to foreign nationals in order to work in the US temporarily.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html

Capitalization Rates: Capitalization rate or cap rate is the percentage rate of a property’s income.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/capitalization-cap-rate/

Interest Rate: The interest rate is a certain percentage of the amount of money lent or borrowed that is charged by the lenders to the borrowers upon returning the original amount over a period of time. 

https://www.thebalance.com/what-are-interest-rates-and-how-do-they-work-3305855

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Our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

https://www.patinadesignlab.com/

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Darren :  Hey, Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert:  Thanks, Darren. Glad to be here.

Darren : Yeah, I mean, this is very exciting because we’ve been friends for so long, I think for more almost two decades. And it’s a good time to talk about our jam, real estate. So, you know, for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them about yourself and your work? 

Robert: Sure, yeah. My name is Robert Veerman. I’m a commercial real estate broker at CBRE in Canada. I cover two major markets here, Vancouver and Toronto in buying and selling real estate. 

Darren: So for the audience, right, I used to live in Vancouver. So when it comes to like Vancouver real estate, I’m always very excited. Because even though every time I go back to Vancouver, there’s so many changes. So there’s one thing that I’m sure a lot of people are curious about, it’s how has Covid-19 impacted the Canadian Real Estate Market at large, especially in Toronto and Vancouver markets? 

Robert: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think Covid definitely is impacted. Everything everywhere around the world. I’ll just talk about it from a timeline perspective. So Covid, kind of first hit, or I would say the lockdowns first happened in Canada, in the middle of March. So for the first two months, I’d say in March and April, there was this virtual shutdown of everything. And that meant for real estate as well. So for residential real estate, as well as commercial real estate, I’d say all kinds of activity trading just stopped. But what was happening in the background, in a huge way was everyone was just trying to figure out how Covid and how this lockdown was going to impact their portfolios, how it was going to impact their real estate. So I was spending a lot of time with clients at that point, not buying and selling stuff, but helping them just shore up the portfolio, buying a lot of data points to understand that. I mean, real estate, fundamentally, is user landlord, you collect rent from the tenants, and then usually the landlord has some kind of financing on it, and you’ll use that rent to pay the banks. So the fact that this is worth running, and there’s this whole fear that, you know, people couldn’t pay rent, because, you know, for example, restaurants, they couldn’t, serve food, and they couldn’t pay rent, they had no money, and the landowners wouldn’t get money, and the banks don’t get money, and the whole system would basically shut down. So there’s this whole fear of having a liquidity crisis. That being said, the, I guess the government response, federal, provincially, and municipally, has been fantastic. And they have definitely worked very, very hard to create a lot of liquidity. And I’d say overall in the industry, everyone in it, from banks, to landlords, to tenants to government have been very, very, very hands on and very shoulder to shoulder working together to make sure things are okay. So now I’d say since then, moving forward to June, July, August, September, things have definitely stabilized. There’s been a new norm that’s set in. And honestly, things are really back to business with, you know, covid precautions, of course.

Darren :  That’s good to know, because it’s something that I hear a lot. And then obviously we’re now in September, and a lot of places around the world are recovering. So due to Covid-19 and the economic impacts, right, do you see a shift in investors preference when it comes to their mandates? 

Robert:  Yeah, for sure. I mean, everyone has shifted their mandates. I mean, to a degree, like the most flexible guys, like myself have definitely shifted my business. The private equity guys, you know, the individual investors have definitely shifted their business, even like the larger institutional investors, obviously, they have a lot at stake, they have a lot of existing portfolio, a lot of existing assets, but even they have adjusted their outlook on the market. Generally speaking, most things have come out of it unscathed. Most guys, artists in steel position. Now there have been a few shakeups like three deals I’m working on right now are receivership deals.They’re you know, properties where the landlord or the owner base a default on their mortgage and has no means to repay it and the bank has been possessing them and forcing them to sell and I’d say a lot of private investors naturally gravitated towards those deals. And, you know, there’s definitely a frenzy of activity, I’d say, from everyone across the board asking me, “Robert, you know, what kind of deals do you have, like receivership deals? Like, Where can I buy 50 cents on the dollar.” And this definitely did occur mostly in the development space, because those are at the most risk defaulting, you know, like, it’s not a development property it’s not like a income property, where you’re just collecting rent from a tenant. Development property, you know, you require certain things like pre sales, you know, you have ongoing construction, and you have much higher leverage loans. So if anything stops for whatever reason, it can have a much bigger impact on your bottom line. So, that’s definitely happened. But that being said, it hasn’t been the norm. Like, there’s definitely more people asking for that kind of product than there is available. And the pricing, though, it’s not exactly what people expected, you know, people are looking for 50 cents of the dollar. But the reality is, it’s more like 70, 80, 90 cents in the dollar. Because at the end of the day, a lot of these properties are backed by mortgages from banks, and the banks will have loan to value ratios of, you know, 70%, 80%, and the banks themselves don’t want to lose money. Yeah, I mean, I think another big trend I would say is that debtors cheat. And it’s definitely here to stay. And, you know, the US Federal Reserve now is that they’re gonna keep rates low for the foreseeable future. The Bank of Canada is really in lockstep. And financing overall is like much cheaper, it was very hard to get in the beginning of Covid, because the banks themselves couldn’t even underwrite what was happening. But now that things have settled down, the banks can kind of see the trajectory again. And financing is very, very, very cheap. So because of that, actually, I’d say there’s three main asset classes that are very, very much in demand. Not like receivership type deals, but like more normal market deals, that’s multifamily, industrial and it’d say grocery anchored retail. Those are the three asset classes that have continued to do well through Covid, if not have done better. Just to give you a brief example, for grocery retail, I talked to a few of like the biggest grocery stores in Canada. And they’re saying that their sales through Covid, you know, from March till now has been the highest ever on record, more than during Christmas season more than Thanksgiving. So their business is booming, long and short. Multifamily, people always need a place to live. And we’ve done a servia profile of all our investing base, Google multifamily. And I’d say 90%-95% to 99% of them reported that they have no issue collecting rent, and industrial logistics, it has always been in vogue. It always been popular even before Covid. And even now with more online shipping. You know, and what have you it just continues to be popular. 

Darren : I see. So, you know, like I know you for quite some time, right, and you’re quite involved with the Asian investors such as Hong Kong and China, how’s the demand for Canadian assets fared over during 2020? 

Robert: I mean, I’d say, Canada has always been a popular destination for you know, international capital. It’s always been seen as a safe haven investment destination, not the greatest growth, you know, Canada’s not Vietnam. But, you know, very stable, and the kind of the economy is largely backed by the American, it’s a shadow of the American economy as well. So people have always come here. 2020 I haven’t seen that much asian interest. I think for several reasons. Mainland Chinese interest, there is still some and you know, we’re doing a couple of deals with them. But it has not been the wave that we’ve seen in the past, I’d say five to ten years in Canada. And I’d say one of the major reasons behind that is one, cap controls in China. It’s just harder and harder to bring money out of China. Two, it’s a trade war, right? So you know, like, if you’re a Chinese citizen, I think the Chinese government now is doing all it can to make sure that capital stays in China. I mean, you live in Hong Kong, if you’re a Chinese citizen in Hong Kong, you pay more tax income taxes living in Hong Kong than you do if you’re working in mainland China. So I think the Chinese government’s implementation of the global tax scheme is definitely pulling people back and having people second guess or, think, again, about taking capital out. But that being said, actually, a kind of interesting trend that I’m seeing right now, our team is seeing right now is that we’re seeing Chinese capital being redeployed into Canada, but not from China, but from other places in the world, namely, the US. I think the trade war is definitely forcing some players to sell their assets in the US whether for political reasons, or just no safety of their investment, I think there’s a general fear that having a capital in the American markets, you know, it may not be safe, right, if something can happen to it. So we’re actually seeing quite a few groups that have previously invested in the US but never invest in Canada, now looking at Canada. For Hong Kong, investors, I think there’s a big buzz about you know, more Hong Kong, investors looking at Canada, I’d say I’d see it on the residential scale.I think a lot actually, I’d say there’s a good number of Hong Kong people, you know, who I think have traditional ties to Canada, who are, you know, kind of redeploying back into Canada? And I wouldn’t say it’s more from a capital perspective, more from like, a living perspective. You know, I think I’ve had some people reach out to me, asking me about jobs here. And with the job environment, especially how real estate is in in Vancouver in Toronto. So I think there’s definitely a migration of people, but not necessarily capital from Hong Kong. 

Darren : I see. So what’s your outlook for the remainder of 2010? 

Robert: I think a lot of big deals are going to happen. One thing I forgot to mention, actually, you asked me about Asian investors but I’d say one of the main foreign investors in Canada right now are the Americans and maybe the Europeans. And I think for the rest of 2020, I think pencils are backed up in September. Todays september the 17th. The pencils are definitely backed up in September. And I think we’re going to see a lot of activity, we’re going to see a lot of big activity happen in the next few months, I’d say in the next six months, things may close in 2020. Things may also close in the first quarter of 2021. But I’m working on some deals, I can’t disclose what but a lot of the big players are making some big moves right now. Either they’re buying or selling and repositioning. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that, you know, we’re still a peak market. And, you know, Covid has created like a low market, there’s no longer much of a market force kind of pushing things up or push things down. And I think a lot of players are using this opportunity to make strategic place that they’ve always planned to make. But they’re executing on this now. So for the rest of 2020, what do I see? I see a lot more American firms buying up here, namely buying multifamily and office. I think the Americans have two plays, or one play up here. And that’s they know that all the tech companies Facebook, Amazon, Google, want to open have opened and want to open more offices in Canada. For some reasons, Canadian dollars lower. It’s the same timezone as the US. It’s a short flight from the US and to get international talent now so like your top programmers from China, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, where have you immigration to Canada is much easier. US you have to get an h1 b visa, which is kind of up in the air right now with the current administration. But in Canada, if you have a job offer to say, Facebook, for example, or Microsoft, and you’re an Indonesian, for example, or Brazilian, it’ll take two weeks to process and get you working in Canada. So I think they see that as a very attractive alternative, you know, to secure that human capital. And I think the American real estate companies, you know, are buying office based on that, they know that these tech companies still want to expand. And I think they’re buying multifamily as well, because it kind of goes hand in hand, if you have population coming in, they need a place to live. And they’ll be pressures on rent growth, especially in Vancouver and Toronto, like they can see here it’s like, what less than one 1%. So there’s no new product, if one person moves in, there’s like no, no, for them to live, right. So there’s a lot of pressure for rent to go up. And I’d say a lot of like the big institutions as well, they Canadian institutions, which have a very, very big presence in real estate in Canada and in the world honestly, they’re one like the biggest investors globally in real estate. In China, Hong Kong, Europe, what have you, they’re going to be making strategic moves, buying and selling in Canada as well. 

Darren : I see that’s very informative. So you know a lot of the audience have actually asked me beforehand of the show, is that during just about macro influence, what are some macro influence you think investors should be aware of in the next few years, which will impact the attractiveness of investor investing in Canada? 

Robert: I think there are three things for sure. There’s three main macro discussion points that people should be aware of, if you’re a small investor, or a super large investor, the first is interest rates. Interest rates are going to remain low for the support seeable future. What does that mean exactly? It means that debt is going to continue to be cheap, and that there’s going to be further pressure for cap rates to go down. And for those who don’t know what a cap rate is, it’s basically the income of a property, like the first year’s income or property, their expected return. So if interest rates continue to stay low or go down, there will be pressure for good quality assets, you know, that have strong rents for the spread between the cap rate and the interest rate to go down. I think that’s one major trend that people should pay attention to. The second major trend is taxes. Through Covid, I think Canada is in a fantastic job creating liquidity. But they’ve also added a lot of new money to the supply. They’ve created a lot of new money. And I think all over the world, governments are increasing their deficits, so to speak, to help pay for this short term instability. But at end of the day, they need to get that money back somehow. And they aren’t getting it back through increasing interest rates for you know, like government bonds, they’re clearly not getting it back from there. I think one easy, very easy way for them to get it back is through increasing capital gain taxes, or any kind of transactional tax for investor, right. For all the people who’ve gotten more and more money in these past few months, you know, it’s the easiest way to get it back just to tax them on their investments. So I would look out for any kind of sign of capital gains tax increase in Canada, their budget is being put forth next year in the spring, q1 q2 of next year. So that’s definitely a thing to watch out for. And I think a lot of the moves people are making right now isn’t potentially an anticipation of that. I think if capital gains goes up, any kind of transaction tax goes up, they’ll be less trades, it will make the underlying value of the asset or the real estate worth less, in fact, will make it worth more because for anyone to sell, they’re going to have to sell for more to get a certain return if their taxes are up. So I think it’ll make things more expensive. For good quality stuff, obviously for stuff that’s not desirable or has issues, then that stuff will probably go down. But for stuff that’s super desirable multifamily, industrial, super stable, super safe, grocery, those, like will be harder and harder to trade. And the people who own that stuff will probably be in the best position.I’d say the third trend is immigration. Growth. Another way that I’d say the Canadian government can pay for a lot of this deficit. And the way that it historically has is just the immigration, and that’s through. Immigrants bring money, they bring capital. And they also, you know, increase the GDP of the country. So I think that’s generally a positive sentiment for Canada, you know, increasing immigration, because that will increase growth overall. So I think that’s another major trend to look out for. 

Darren : That’s very informative. I think that like everything you’ve said, so far is very in depth, so thanks for your time. So for time being right, what are some ways that if someone watches this video and wants to ask you more questions in commercial real estate or as a whole, how would I suggest them to reach out to you? 

Robert: Yeah, I’m sure my contacts will be above or below. I mean, why should someone reach out to me, I’m a real estate broker. I work at CBRE. We’re the largest, actually the largest commercial real estate company in the world, full service real estate company. We have a lot of different business lines, from investment to capital markets, leasing, property management, asset management, you know, the whole gamut appraisal.Me Myself, I work on the investment side as a broker. Yeah, if you’ve any questions regarding commercial real estate, or in fact, like commercial real estate in Canada, for that matter, feel free to reach out to me send me an email, give me a phone call. I think for people that don’t know real estate, and perhaps like they’re on Denzity, you know, looking for more insight in real estate and how to get into it, I would say this, like, it’s, it’s a great asset type, it’s a great investment to get into. And you can start very, very small. I’d say some of the biggest portfolios I’ve built from just one small building, you know, using, I guess, a celebrity as an example. I was, I mean, I went to school down in LA, everyone always used to talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold Schwarzenegger is an actor. He’s this guy who came from Vienna, from Austria. He started buying commercial real estate, apartment buildings, actually, you know, when he first started. You buy one, and then you refi it a few years later, then you buy another one. And you just keep rolling, right? 

Darren : Yeah. You know, I think he covered a lot about his real estate deals in his book, how to recall. So it’s interesting because he make his money before his acting career kicks off. So yeah, I think real estate, I love this sector and that’s why we’re here. And I want to give a shout out to our High School St. George’s too, you know, that’s how I know you and have become friends. So I’m sure in round two, we can get other people like our friend Danny, who you know, as a pension guy is an investment manager, he can talk more about investing as a whole in real estate or even fixed income assets. So I’ll say again, thanks for your time, and I really appreciate your time, making this happen together. 

Robert: We’ll do, thanks Darren. 

Darren : Okay see you next time. Thank you. Good day. 

Robert: Cheers. 

Darren: Bye.


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Real estate expert: Online VS face-to-face?

Should I find a real estate expert online or should I do it the traditional way? That is a question.

Nowadays you can practically find anything online. Especially during the pandemic, online shopping has become the prominent trend. You can buy food, clothes, and services online, and even real estate expert services. Some people may think that real estate equity investment is too “serious” to be done online, however, there could be more pros than cons. Let’s look at the difference between online real estate expert and face-to-face consultation.

Face-to-face real estate expert

👍🏻Higher credibility

For traditional real estate agents, marketing relies heavily on offline strategies like direct sales. Agents and agencies can only build their reputations step by step with years of experience and excellent services. Customers usually decide to hire a particular real estate expert because their friends and families endorsed his or her service. This gives customers more confidence, knowing that they are in good hands.

👎🏻Less convenient

To do it the old-school way, you probably have to visit the real estate expert to start the consultation process. During the pandemic, it can be difficult to find a safe place to talk for hours. Also, for an investment as big as a real estate equity investment, you may want to compare the prices and fees of several agencies before you make a decision. You will then have to spend some time and effort to talk to a few real estate experts, and then compare their services manually. Just think about the workload.

Online real estate expert

👍🏻More sources of information

In the past, if you want to know more about a niche in real estate equity investment, you have to go to a local real estate agency and read their posters or brochures. If you are looking to invest in an oversea real estate market, let’s say, the Malaysia real estate market, then it could be a little troublesome because local real estate agencies may not have substantial information on this subject. Yet, now you can easily search online for information about other real estate markets. There are even prop-tech platforms like Denzity for you to look for real estate experts with specific expertise, like Vietnam real estate market, Malaysia real estate development, and feng shui.

👍🏻More extensive background search

With more choices comes more considerations when making decisions. To choose the best agent, comparison and background search are essential. You can utilize the Internet to do a more thorough background search on your agents.

👍🏻More channels to find agents

Instead of asking your friends who had purchased real estate before or checking out local real estate agencies one by one, you can now go online to do so. There are endless ways to find a real estate agent now. For instance, you can use Denzity’s directory to find the real estate expert that is just right for you. After figuring out what you want, you can apply the filter and browse real estate experts specialized in the area you’re interested in, like feng shui or Vietnam real estate market.

👎🏻Scammers

The Internet not only makes our lives easier but also scammer’s businesses. Let’s be honest here, there certainly are scammers in the real estate equity investment business. That’s why it is important to do research and seek consultation from credible organisations. For example, Denzity is a third-party platform for you to learn more about real estate equity investment and browse lists of unaffiliated real estate agents.

Do you prefer the online way or the traditional way? Let us know in the comment section.

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong


Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong

Connect with Michael:

Website: https://www.maiblocks.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amis-hong-kong/

Email: info@maiblocks.com

While real estate tokenization has been touted as a new movement, it hasn’t yet garnered significant momentum. As the coronavirus has accelerated the world economy’s digitization, has the pandemic pressure accelerated tokenization in real estate as well? In this episode, we have Michael sharing his thoughts on it.

Michael Wong is the co-founder of MaiBlocks Technology and MaiCapital, which is a fintech start-up in HK that aims to solve an age-old problem:  making illiquid investments more liquid.

  • Why is the security token offering a big topic in real estate?
  • How to participate in real estate tokenization
  • Things to be aware of while investing
  • Impact of COVID on real estate STO

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Source

Asia Security Token Alliance (ASTA): https://asiasta.com

MaiCapital: https://www.maicapital.io

MaiBlocks: https://www.maiblocks.com

Real Estate Security Token Offering: STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets.

Illiquid investment: Securities or assets that can neither be sold or exchanged easily for an equal value.

https://www.realtymogul.com/knowledge-center/article/what-are-illiquid-investments

Digitized fund: Digitized funds are capital funds that have been digitized with the use of blockchain technology.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of a blockchain technology is designed as such, so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

https://www.euromoney.com/learning/blockchain-explained/what-is-blockchain

REITs: REITs are companies or farms that manage or own properties that generate a stable income. With REIT investment, investors can enjoy a steady profit without going through any hassle of operating the asset.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reit.asp

STO exchange:  STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets. These tokenized assets can be traded on platforms known as STO exchanges.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Michael Wong

Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Hey, Mike. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Darren Wong:[00:00:00][00:00:00]嘿,Mike。嘿,謝謝你加入我們。

[00:00:01]Michael Wong: [00:00:01] Hey Darren. Good to see you again.

[00:00:01]邁克爾·王:[00:00:01]嗨,Darren。很高興再次見到你。

[00:00:03]Darren Wong: [00:00:03] Yeah, It’s been half like a year last time I see you.

[00:00:03]Darren Wong:[00:00:03]是的,我上次見到你已經是半年前。

[00:00:07]Michael Wong: [00:00:07] Yeah, it’s been a while. All these [00:00:10] interesting things happening in the world.

[00:00:07]邁克爾·王:[00:00:07]是的,已經有一段時間了。很多有趣的事情都正在進行中。

[00:00:11]Darren Wong: [00:00:11] Yeah, which is something that I’ll talk to you about, because we’re both in ASTA. And then we haven’t talked about what’s going to

[00:00:11]Darren Wong:[00:00:11]是的,因為我們都在ASTA,所以我會和你談談關於ASTA的事情。我們還沒談過市場會

[00:00:20] market or even what’s going on with regulation and even the real estate security token offering space. So this interview is something that I really want to talk to you about, even personally,

[00:00:20]發生什麼,甚至是關於監管,甚至是房地產安全代幣發行空間的變化。所以我是很期待這次的訪問的,即使是我個人也想

[00:00:30] to learn more what’s going on. So for the audience that don’t know who you are and what you do, would you mind give them a very short intro?

[00:00:30]瞭解更多情况。所以對於那些不知道你是誰和你做什麼的觀眾,你能給他們一個簡短的介紹嗎?

[00:00:38]Michael Wong: [00:00:38] Oh, sure, definitely. So Hi,

[00:00:38]邁克爾·王:[00:00:38]哦,當然,當然。嗨,

[00:00:40] everyone. My name is Michael and I’m a co-founder of MaiBlocks and MaiCapital. And what we’re doing here is we’re a FinTech

[00:00:40]各位。我叫Michael,是maiblocks和maicapital的聯合創始人。我們是一家在香港的金融科技

[00:00:50] startup here in Hong Kong that aims to solve an age-old problem, which is turning illiquid investments into something more liquid.

[00:00:50]初創公司旨在解决一個長久的問題,即將非流動性投資轉化為更具流動性的投資。

[00:01:00] And we’re trying to use the power of blockchain to help with that. So when people think about, for example, investing into real estate, traditionally, people would immediately associate that with

[00:01:00]我們正試圖利用區塊鏈的力量來幫助實現這一點。因此,當人們想到投資房地產,傳統上,人們會立刻聯想到

[00:01:10] something that’s very illiquid. So what we’re hoping is to use the power of blockchain to basically make this whole investment

[00:01:10]流動性很差的東西。所以我們希望利用區塊鏈的力量,基本上把整個投資

[00:01:20] much more liquid. We’re calling this as digitised funds. But you can check out more on our website as well

[00:01:20]變得更流動。我們稱之為數位基金。但你也可以在我們的網站上查看更多

[00:01:30] at maiblocks.com.

[00:01:30] 網址是maiblocks.com.

[00:01:31]Darren Wong: [00:01:31] So for people who don’t know about blockchain or crypto, what are the differences between the security token offering and initial coin

[00:01:31]Darren Wong:[00:01:31]那麼對於不瞭解區塊鏈或加密技術的人來說,簡單的來說,安全代幣發行和初始幣所提供的

[00:01:40] offering in simple terms?

[00:01:40]服務有什差別?

[00:01:42]Michael Wong: [00:01:42] Yeah, so there are a few key differences I would summarise them into a

[00:01:42]Michael Wong:[00:01:42]是的,所以我將它們總結為

[00:01:50] few key words. One is asset backed, the other one is regulation. And the third is risk. So both ICOs and STOs,

[00:01:50]幾個關鍵的差別。一個是資產擔保,另一個是監管。第三是風險。所以ICOs和STOs,

[00:02:00] STO meaning security tokens, use blockchain technology to enable a crowdfunding mechanism for people to raise capital.

[00:02:00]STO意為證券型代幣,使用區塊鏈科技為人們提供眾籌機制來籌集資金。

[00:02:10] And the key difference here is STOs are backed by actual tangible assets. These could be real assets like real estate, or it

[00:02:10]而關鍵的區別在於,證券型代幣是由實際有形資產支持的。這些資產可能是房地產之類的不動產,或者它

[00:02:20] could be income streams or profit streams, where ICOs are more promises of future services or

[00:02:20]也可以是收入流或利潤流,首次代幣發行(ICOs)是更多關於未來服務的承諾或者

[00:02:30] future products that you could use or buy. And so that’s one key difference is STO is backed by something that’s much more tangible.

[00:02:30]你可以使用或購買的未來產品。所以這就是一個關鍵的區別,證券型代幣是由更具體的東西支持的。

[00:02:40] The other thing is regulation. So there’s really, in many jurisdictions, STO is heavily regulated. There’s specific

[00:02:40]另一件事是監管。因此,在許多司法管轄區,證券型代幣受到嚴格監管。有具體的

[00:02:50] rules on what you can and cannot do, whereas ICOs in many cases are not. So the third key difference, which is risk,

[00:02:50]關於你能做什麼和不能做什麼的規則,而首次代幣發行在很多情况下則沒有受同等監管。所以第三個的關鍵區別就是風險,

[00:03:00] because the ICO is, in many cases, not properly regulated, it could be rampant with fraud and scams. And there’s a much

[00:03:00]由於首次代幣發行在許多情况下沒有得到適當的監管,所以舞弊和詐騙的情況有機會會猖獗。還有

[00:03:10] higher risk of speculation, where STOs is much more grounded.

[00:03:10]投機的風險更加高,在這種情況下,證券型代幣的基礎更為穩固。

[00:03:13]Darren Wong: [00:03:13] So obviously like blockchain has been a big topic for not only real estates, so is a really big industry and something that a lot

[00:03:13]Darren Wong:[00:03:13]顯然,區塊鏈不僅是房地產的一大主題,而且是一個非常大的行業,而且很多

[00:03:20] people, like yourself, obviously is thinking about, it’s gonna change how we look at trading and how we securitize something. So why is it huge

[00:03:20]像你這樣的人顯然在想,這將改變我們對交易的看法,以及我們如何將某些東西證券化。那麼,對於證券型代幣而言,

[00:03:30] for real estate when it comes to STO and then how’s the difference comparing to a REITs?

[00:03:30] 為什麼房地產是很重要的?和房地產投資信託相比又有什麼區別?

[00:03:37]Michael Wong: [00:03:37] Yeah, so real estate, as I started

[00:03:37]邁克爾·王:[00:03:37]是的,房地產,像我剛開始的時候提過

[00:03:40] earlier, people associated with investing in real estate is difficult to get in and also difficult to get out, meaning it’s very illiquid.

[00:03:40]與房地產投資相關的人很難入場,也很難離場,這意味著房地產的流動性非常低。

[00:03:50] Traditionally, in the real estate world, there aren’t that many ways to invest into real estate, especially on commercial properties.

[00:03:50]傳統上,在房地產領域,投資房地產的管道並不多,尤其是商用物業。

[00:04:00] Traditionally, either you go through private equity, which is still very illiquid in its form or through REITs, which is

[00:04:00]傳統上,你要麼通過私募股權,但它的形式仍然非常缺乏流動性,要麼通過房地產投資信託,後者就是

[00:04:10] essentially an IPO. So a listed process, which is much more liquid, so it allows a lot of people to get in, get out much easier, but it’s very expensive to

[00:04:10]本質上是首次公開募股。所以是一個上市的流程,流動性就大得多,所以讓很多人進出更容易,但結構的成本很高

[00:04:20] structure. So, what ends up happening is REITs tends to have many many assets under its portfolio. And

[00:04:20]因此,最終發生的是,房地產投資信託的投資組合中往往有許多資產。以及

[00:04:30] so the whole investment profile, the whole return profile, is washed out, is averaged out across many different

[00:04:30]整個投資組合,整個回報組合,都被抹去了,在許多不同的領域被平均化了

[00:04:40] assets. So for you seldom you would see single asset REITs, for example. STO in this case, because it is cheaper to structure

[00:04:40]資產。例如,你很少會看到單一資產的房地產投資信託。在這種情況下,因為證券型代幣的結構更便宜

[00:04:50] and is cheaper to issue, then it allows asset owners to structure single asset STOs, which would

[00:04:50]而且發行成本較低,因此它允許資產所有者構建單一資產的證券型代幣,這將

[00:05:00] offer similarly more liquid capabilities so people can get in and get out easier. So that’s one of the key differences between

[00:05:00]提供類似的更具流動性的功能,以便人們更容易投資。所以這是

[00:05:10] STO and REITs. There are other differences. For example, REITs are usually traded in public markets, which is only opened during business hours. Tokens

[00:05:10] 證券型代幣和房地產投資信託。還有其他不同之處。例如,房地產投資信託通常在公開市場交易,而公開市場只在營業時間開放。代幣

[00:05:20] can be traded 24/7, and there are also these various differences as well.

[00:05:20]可以全天候交易,而且也有這些不同之處。

[00:05:25]Darren Wong: [00:05:25] So obviously, it sounds really cool, right? I mean, just something that as a real estate investor, like,

[00:05:25]Darren Wong:[00:05:25]顯然,這聽起來很酷,對吧?我是說,作為一個房地產投資者,

[00:05:30] wow, that’s crazy. You can do that. But then, people have talked about this for a very long time, but how has it not be a mainstream? And then, in that regard,

[00:05:30]哇,太瘋狂了。你居然可以這樣做。但是,人們已經談論了很長一段時間了,但是它怎麼不是主流呢?然後,在這方面,

[00:05:40] obviously it’s not mainstream yet, what kind of challenges there are for the real estate asset being tokenized?

[00:05:40]顯然這還不是主流,房地產資產代幣化有什麼樣的挑戰?

[00:05:44]Michael Wong: [00:05:44] So on the first point, it has been talked about

[00:05:44]邁克爾·王:[00:05:44]所以關於第一點,我們已經討論過了

[00:05:50] this concept for over a year. And however it is still relatively new. It’s a new concept, especially to investors. And I think

[00:05:50]這個概念有一年多了。然而,它仍然是相對較新的。這是一個新概念,尤其是對投資者而言。我認為

[00:06:00] there are a few reasons. You know, one reason obviously is they are still a lot of hurdles to get through before you can actually issue an STO, including technology,

[00:06:00]有幾個原因。你知道,一個很明顯的原因是在你發佈證券型代幣之前還有很多障礙要克服,包括科技,

[00:06:10] regulation, even financial considerations. But we think there’s also one key element that’s been missing in this

[00:06:10]監管,甚至是財務方面的考慮。但我們認為還有一個關鍵因素在這生態系統上被遺漏

[00:06:20] ecosystem is exchange. A big benefit of STO is liquidity, so ability for people to exit the secondary

[00:06:20]就是交換。證券型代幣的一大好處是流動性,因此人們能够退出二級市場

[00:06:30] markets, like exchanges. However, exchanges that can support security tokens need to be properly regulated and licenced. And so, this depends on the

[00:06:30],就像交易所。然而,支持安全代幣的交易所需要得到適當的監管和許可。所以,這取決於

[00:06:40] regulator giving out licences to these operators. And right now, the regulator’s from all over the world it’s still been slow in distributing

[00:06:40]監管機構向這些運營商發放許可證。而現在,監管機構來自世界各地,在分配這些許可證上仍然很慢

[00:06:50] these licences, so the virus definitely put a

[00:06:50]而疫情肯定

[00:07:00] pause on all these activities as well. But we think over the next 6 to 12 months, we do expect more and more of these exchanges to pop out with

[00:07:00]暫停了所有這些活動。但我們認為,在未來6到12個月內,我們確實預計會有越來越多的適當的許可證和適當的監管的

[00:07:10] proper licences and proper regulation behind them. And so once these markets appear, then hopefully these liquidity will then show up.

[00:07:10] 交易出現。因此,一旦這些市場出現,那麼希望這些流動性會出現。

[00:07:20] And so that’s one of the reasons why it hasn’t really picked up in the mainstream. And regarding your second question on why

[00:07:20]這也是為什麼它沒有真正在主流中流行的原因之一。關於你的第二個問題為什麼

[00:07:30] hasn’t real estate asset owners swarm to doing tokenizing these assets? I think, in a lot of cases,

[00:07:30]房地產資產所有者不是蜂擁而至,將這些資產代幣化嗎?我想,在很多情况下,

[00:07:40] people are in a wait-and-see mode, whereas they don’t really want to be the first guy hooked and, so a lot of

[00:07:40]人們處於觀望狀態,但他們並不想成為第一個上鉤的人,所以

[00:07:50] people are just waiting for more success stories before they jump into this. So this becomes a little bit of a chicken and egg where you want to have good

[00:07:50]人們只是在等待更多的成功故事,然後才跳進來。所以這就變成了一個雞和蛋的情況

[00:08:00] assets out there but then you want to have good liquidity and which comes first.

[00:08:00]你想有好的資產在那裡,但是你也想要有良好的流動性,這就要看哪樣先發生。

[00:08:05]Darren Wong: [00:08:05] So in your opinion, what type of real estate asset type what

[00:08:05]Darren Wong:[00:08:05]那麼在你看來,什麼樣的房地產資產類型是什麼

[00:08:10] investment strategy that are best suited for tokenize? And then, what aren’t the best for tokenized?

[00:08:10]最適合代幣化的投資策略?然後,什麼不能作代幣化?

[00:08:16]Michael Wong: [00:08:16] Yeah, so, again, because this is still a very new

[00:08:16]邁克爾·王:[00:08:16]是的,再一次,因為這還是

[00:08:20] concept, so we want to remove as much of the uncertainties as possible. And so, by putting assets that

[00:08:20]一個相對新的概念,所以我們希望盡可能地消除不確定性。因此,通過將

[00:08:30] are less risky, that are already generating regular dividends or regular yields, those types of

[00:08:30]風險較小的,已經產生定期股息或定期收益的資產,這些類型的資產

[00:08:40] assets, I think, would make more sense for STOs today. And also commercial properties

[00:08:40]我認為,會對如今的證券型代幣來說更有意義。還有商用物業

[00:08:50] is going to be more interesting for STO space because there are already many different ways for people to invest into residential properties. Now, whereas commercial properties are

[00:08:50]對於證券型代幣空間來說會更有趣,因為人們已經有很多不同的管道投資自住物業。現在,商用物業

[00:09:00] still quite limited in the accessibility of it. So we think a mixture of these type of assets would be a better fit for now.

[00:09:00]它的可用性仍然非常有限。因此,我們認為,混合使用這些類型的資產將更適合現時的情况。

[00:09:09]Darren Wong: [00:09:09] I

[00:09:09]Darren Wong:[00:09:09]我

[00:09:10] see. So, I know because we talk a lot before about what kind of asset and everything, right? Is there something in your mind that you think it

[00:09:10]明白了。所以,我知道,因為我們之前談了很多關於什麼樣的資產和所有的事情,對吧?你認為

[00:09:20] should be, because less risky is a very broad term, is there a certain like size or even, for example, income generating and

[00:09:20]因為低風險是一個非常寬泛的術語,是否存在某種類似的規模,或者甚至,例如,產生收入和

[00:09:30] less risk? What does that mean to you? Does anyone know in your point of view, that’s it.

[00:09:30]較低的風險?這對你意味著什麼?有沒有人在你看來,就是這樣。

[00:09:33]Michael Wong: [00:09:33] I think there’s an element of, you know, how much of the market exists today. So if you throw

[00:09:33]邁克爾·王:[00:09:33]我認為有一個因素,你知道,是今天市場價值有多少。所以如果你扔

[00:09:40] something out that’s huge, let’s say a billion dollar worth of assets, probably the market is not there yet to pick up the whole

[00:09:40]一些巨額的資產,比如說價值10億的資產,可能市場還沒有能力可以

[00:09:50] piece of the asset. So in terms of size, I think we’re still in the 10 to 100 million dollar size,

[00:09:50]接收全部的資產。所以就規模而言,我認為我們仍處於1000萬到1億美元的規模,

[00:10:00] kind of the US dollar market. And in terms of risks, what we’re meaning is that there are different types of investment

[00:10:00]類似這樣的美元市場。就風險而言,我們的意思是有不同類型的投資

[00:10:10] properties. It could be a property where you’re just buying a piece of land where the whole property hasn’t been built yet, but it needs to be built up from ground up. So

[00:10:10]項目。它可能是一個你只是買了一塊土地的房產,整個房產還沒有建成,但它需要從頭開始建設。所以

[00:10:20] those, in many cases, are what we categorise as much more risky, versus where you already have an existing building that’s in an

[00:10:20]在很多情况下,這些是我們歸類為風險更大的地方,相比之下,你已經有了一棟物業是

[00:10:30] office building and you’re already collecting rent from existing tenants. We have an ongoing track record from the returns of the

[00:10:30]一棟辦公樓,你已經在向現有租戶收取租金。我們從物業的收益中獲得持續的記錄,

[00:10:40] property that we’ll, in our state, will categorise it as a more certain investment.

[00:10:40]在我們的情況下,我們將把它歸類為更肯定的投資。

[00:10:48]Darren Wong: [00:10:48] I see. I

[00:10:48]Darren Wong:[00:10:48]我明白了。我

[00:10:50] think that I feel like if we do this, like every single year, I think it will be like, you look back to how things are becoming and evolving, that would be kind of cool in the future from

[00:10:50]我覺得如果我們這樣做,每一年,我想它會像,你會回顧一下事情的發展和演變,那在未來會從

[00:11:00] speculating to it happens more cases in cases, because I obviously hope the industry goes well, too. So something that is in my mind be like, “that’s kind of cool if that happens”. And

[00:11:00]在推測到個案在逐漸發生,因為我顯然希望這個行業也能順利發展。所以在我的腦海裏會有這樣的想法,“如果真的發生了,那就太酷了”。以及

[00:11:10] so as if to follow up, so what other components or parties need to be involved or participate to make the real estate tokenization happen or matured?

[00:11:10]因此,如果要進一步的話,那麼,要使房地產代幣化發生或成熟,還需要哪些其他組件的加入或者哪方的參與?

[00:11:19][00:11:20] Michael Wong: [00:11:19] They are obviously different players. There’s technology players, there are financial players and obviously the real estate players. But I think a big key component is

[00:11:19][00:11:20]邁克爾·王:[00:11:19]他們顯然是不同的持分者。有科技的持分者,有金融的持分者,當然還有房地產的持分者。但我認為一個重要的組成部分是

[00:11:30] regulators, or the government. So basically having the government behind it, and putting

[00:11:30]監管者或者是政府。所以基本上是有政府支持,然後

[00:11:40] down the right rules and regulation to protect investors, I think that would give a lot of confidence to attract

[00:11:40]製定正確的規則和法規來保護投資者,我認為這會給投資者帶來很大的信心來吸引

[00:11:50] more, both retail and institutional investors to come into the space. So I think that is a big piece of this as well.

[00:11:50]更多,包括散戶和機構投資者來投資。所以我認為這也是其中的一個重要部分。

[00:11:57]Darren Wong: [00:11:57] I see. So for

[00:11:57]Darren Wong:[00:11:57]我明白了。所以

[00:12:00] existing real estate STO out there, what are things that the audience need to be aware of?

[00:12:00]現有的房地產市場的STO,觀眾需要注意什麼?

[00:12:07]Michael Wong: [00:12:07] Ultimately

[00:12:07]邁克爾·王:[00:12:07]最終

[00:12:10] what the investors will be investing is the underlying asset. The token really facilitates the investment but it’s not really the point of the

[00:12:10]投資者將投資的是相關資產。代幣確實有助於投資,但並不是

[00:12:20] investment, when you’re investing is the underlying property or real estate or whatever asset it is. So I think the key is the valuation of what you’re investing

[00:12:20]投資的重點,當你投資的是相關資產或房地產或任何資產。所以我認為關鍵是你投資的價值

[00:12:30] should focus mainly on that asset itself, rather than the token. So this removes a lot of the

[00:12:30]應該主要關注資產本身,而不是代幣。所以這就消除了很多

[00:12:40] speculative aspect of this. And I think that’s most important. I mean, the other parts also is you need to

[00:12:40]這是推測的性質。我認為這是最重要的。我是說,其他部分也是你需要去

[00:12:50] worry about the issuance and the service providers that are providing these tokens to you making sure that they’re

[00:12:50]擔心發行和向你提供這些代幣的服務提供者確保他們是

[00:13:00] legitimate. They are proper. That’s to protect you on investments.

[00:13:00]合法的。它們是正規的。這是為了保護你的投資。

[00:13:05]Darren Wong: [00:13:05] That’s good. Well, because like we’re both in Hong Kong and something that even I want to

[00:13:05]Darren Wong:[00:13:05]很好。嗯,因為我們都在香港,所以我想

[00:13:10] ask you, where are we with the real estate STO in Hong Kong, and then how’s activities with different countries at the moment?

[00:13:10]問你的是,香港房地產的STO發展到什麼階段了,以及現時與不同國家的活動如何?

[00:13:19]Michael Wong: [00:13:19] Hong Kong,

[00:13:19]邁克爾·王:[00:13:19]香港,

[00:13:20] frankly, has been relatively slow, compared to the rest of the world. I think the regulator has been pretty public

[00:13:20]坦率地說,與世界其他地區相比,進展相對緩慢。我認為監管機構關於支持數位資產和相關業務,包括STO

[00:13:30] about supporting digital assets and related business, including STO. However, we have not seen any

[00:13:30]已經相當公開了。但是,我們還沒有看到任何

[00:13:40] actual licences, for example, that’s given out to exchanges. But we do expect probably maybe that was

[00:13:40]實際發放給交易所的許可證。但我們認為可能是

[00:13:50] delayed by the virus pandemic. Hopefully we’ll see some progress closer to the end of this year.

[00:13:50]被疫情耽擱了。希望我們能在接近今年年底的時候看到一些進展。

[00:14:00] Compared to the US and Singapore, they actually have already issued licences to exchanges and major players in the space. So

[00:14:00]與美國和新加坡相比,她們實際上已經向該領域的交易所和主要參與者頒發了許可證。所以

[00:14:10] at least for now, seemingly, they’re moving a little bit faster than Hong Kong. But hopefully Hong Kong can catch up soon.

[00:14:10]至少目前看來,他們的速度比香港快一點。但希望香港能儘快趕上。

[00:14:17]Darren Wong: [00:14:17] So like you know,

[00:14:17]Darren Wong:[00:14:17]所以,你知道我曾

[00:14:20] at ASTA for a while, learning about the sharing insight about STO world and stuff like that. And there’s a lot of noise online too, and

[00:14:20] 參加過亞洲證券型代幣聯盟一段日子,學習關於STO世界的見解和諸如此類的東西。網上也有很多聲音,而且

[00:14:30] everyone have different opinions and stuff like that. What is something in this industry that you think is misunderstood or overrated?

[00:14:30]每個人都有不同的觀點和諸如此類的事情。在這個行業中,你認為什麼東西被誤解或高估了?

[00:14:35]Michael Wong: [00:14:35] I think there’s a lot of

[00:14:35]邁克爾·王:[00:14:35]我認為有很多對STO的

[00:14:40] misconception STO the T stands for token. But when people think about token, then a lot of people immediately associate that with ICOs

[00:14:40]誤解;T代表代幣。但當人們想到代幣時,很多人立刻將其與首次代幣發行聯系起來

[00:14:50] or a lot back in 2017 2018, where there were a lot of frauds and scams associated with ICOs and

[00:14:50]或更早的2017年和2018年,當時有很多與首次代幣發行和

[00:15:00] tokens, and so people will immediately become very risk averse on accepting does that idea, even though you know token is essentially

[00:15:00]代幣的詐騙和舞弊,所以人們一旦接受這種想法,就會立刻變得非常厭惡風險,即使你知道代幣本質上是這樣

[00:15:10] a term that we computer geeks come up with, to represent something that’s virtual. It’s

[00:15:10]一個我們電腦怪客想出的術語,用來表示虛擬的東西。它是

[00:15:20] really a tool, and a tool can be properly managed and the risk can be contained if

[00:15:20]真正的工具,如果周圍有足夠的保護措施,

[00:15:30] there are enough protections around it. And so, STO is nothing like these type of scam tokens out there. So I think that’s one of the biggest

[00:15:30] 則可以對工具進行適當的管理並控制風險。所以,STO和外面的這些騙局一點都不像。所以我認為這是最大的

[00:15:40] misconception of them.

[00:15:40]對它們的誤解。

[00:15:41]Darren Wong: [00:15:41] I see. So for the audience, right, who might be people who are technologists, real estate owners,

[00:15:41]Darren Wong:[00:15:41]我明白了。所以對於觀眾來說,對吧,他們可能是科技專家,房地產商,

[00:15:50] or people who just want to participate in this whole movement, what would you suggest that they can participate?

[00:15:50]或者只是想參與整個運動的人,你認為他們可以參加什麼?

[00:15:58]Michael Wong: [00:15:58] So,

[00:15:58]邁克爾·王:[00:15:58]所以,

[00:16:00] I think the best thing is to invest, to actually try it out. I think you won’t know how it works until you actually try it. I

[00:16:00]我認為最好的辦法是投資,真正嘗試一下。我想除非你真的試過,否則你不會知道它是怎麼運作的。我

[00:16:10] don’t mean going all out and put all your savings into it, but there are now more and more ways for people to

[00:16:10]並不是說全力以赴地把你所有的積蓄都投入其中,但是現在有越來越多的管道讓人們

[00:16:20] get on exchanges or websites where you can actually legally buy and invest in these STOs. So I would

[00:16:20]進入交易所或網站,在那裡你可以合法購買和投資這些STOs。所以我會

[00:16:30] encourage people to just try it out, put down a little bit of money just to see it and see how it works.

[00:16:30]鼓勵人們試一試,拿出一點錢來看看它是如何運作的。

[00:16:34]Darren Wong: [00:16:34] So just now, I think a couple questions ago, we talked about how COVID-19 might have

[00:16:34]Darren Wong:[00:16:34]剛才,我想幾個問題之前,我們討論了新冠肺炎可能令

[00:16:40] delayed a little bit of the process, right? But then even with COVID-19 and the recession, how do you think that they impact the real estate STO movement so far?

[00:16:40]整個過程有點延遲,對吧?但是,即使有了新冠肺炎和經濟衰退,到目前為止,你認為它們對房地產的證券型代幣有何影響?

[00:16:49]Michael Wong: [00:16:49] It’s

[00:16:49]邁克爾·王:[00:16:49]這

[00:16:50] interesting, because the pandemic, while it’s devastating to many people, forced a lot of people to think about how to do things differently.

[00:16:50]很有趣,因為疫情雖然對很多人來說是毀滅性的,但卻迫使很多人思考如何以不同的管道做事。

[00:17:00] And one of the key impact is just a lot less face-to-face time. Now even you and I have to

[00:17:00]其中一個關鍵的影響就是大大减少了面對面的時間。現在就連你和我都不得不

[00:17:10] talk over Zoom now instead of meeting face to face.        

[00:17:10]在Zoom上談話,而不是面對面見面。

[00:17:14]Darren Wong: [00:17:14] We’re twenty minutes away, you know. I could take a cab and find you. Yeah, sorry, keep going.

[00:17:14]Darren Wong:[00:17:14]我離你只有20分鐘的車程,你知道的。所以,我可以搭計程車來找你。是的,對不起,請繼續。

[00:17:20] Sorry about that.

[00:17:20]很抱歉。

[00:17:20]Michael Wong: [00:17:20] No worries. So a lot of traditional means of raising capital, such as private equities, a lot of deals close

[00:17:20]邁克爾·王:[00:17:20]別擔心。所以很多傳統的融資方式,比如私募股權,很多交易

[00:17:30] after face-to-face meetings, but then now these meetings don’t occur, and which means it’s much harder to close these deals. And so STOs offer an alternative way for

[00:17:30]在面對面會議之後成交,但現在這些會議沒有舉行,這意味著要完成這些交易要困難得多。所以STOs提供了一種替代方法讓

[00:17:40] people to, to close deals and raise capital. Furthermore, I think the pandemic is causing a lot of valuation

[00:17:40]人們去完成交易和籌集資金。此外,

[00:17:50] issues for real estate home and asset owners as well. And so, some of these guys are now looking into more alternative ways to raise capital,

[00:17:50] 我認為疫情病也給房地產房屋和資產所有者帶來了很多估值問題。所以,這些人中的一些人現在正在尋找更多的融資方式,

[00:18:00] beyond just the traditional means. And so I think STO is something that is now getting on their radar.

[00:18:00]超越傳統手段。所以我認為STO現在正被他們所關注。

[00:18:07]Darren Wong: [00:18:07] Yeah, because like, I think there’s a company that I

[00:18:07]Darren Wong:[00:18:07]是的,因為我知道有一家公司

[00:18:10] think we both know are doing like virtual roadshow, and then I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of cool”, and then I was looking at some tech recently were

[00:18:10]我們都知道他們在做虛擬路演,然後我想,“哦,這有點酷”,然後我最近在看一些科技

[00:18:20] like virtual showing, drones surveillance and stuff like that. I even, personally, I feel like this can work, everything combined together, it’s not only STOs about the investing

[00:18:20]比如是虛擬展示,無人機監控等等。我甚至,就我個人而言,我覺得這是可行的,所有的東西結合在一起,這不僅僅是關於STOs和投資

[00:18:30] world, about the real estate investing, how we come together to build in and more people can participate in all shape and size. And then so like the audience might not

[00:18:30]世界,關於房地產投資,我們如何團結在一起進行建設,讓更多的人參與各種形式和規模的投資。然後觀眾可能不會

[00:18:40] know that you’re from San Francisco, and I’m sure you have technologists thinking, what should we expect to see when it comes to the STO world in a few years time?

[00:18:40]知道你來自舊金山,我相信你有科技專家們在想,幾年後的STO世界出現,我們應該期待看到什麼?

[00:18:50] My point of view.

[00:18:50]我的觀點。

[00:18:51]Michael Wong: [00:18:51] I think we would expect a much more vibrant ecosystem with a lot of different players, with exchanges, with issuers,

[00:18:51]Michael Wong:[00:18:51]我認為我們會期待一個更加充滿活力的生態系統,也會有很多不同的參與者,有交易所,有發行人,

[00:19:00] with asset owners and investors right all together and seeing this whole story play out on a global basis as

[00:19:00]資產所有者和投資者齊心協力,在全球的層面上合作。

[00:19:10] well. So we’re not talking about Hong Kong people investing into Hong Kong assets, we’re talking about Hong Kong people investing into tokenize assets from the States, and people

[00:19:10]所以我們說的不是香港人投資香港的資產,而是香港人投資美國的代幣性資產;

[00:19:20] in Africa investing into assets potentially in Hong Kong. So I think that’s what we expect. It does take more time to build it out.

[00:19:20]非洲人投資於可能在香港的資產。所以我想這就是我們所期望的。它確實需要更多的時間來構建。

[00:19:30] But I think in three, four years time, this will be much more interesting.

[00:19:30]但我認為在三到四年後,這會更有趣。

[00:19:34]Darren Wong: [00:19:34] I see. If you have a message to everyone in the STO or real estate

[00:19:34]Darren Wong:[00:19:34]我明白了。如果你有話要告訴STO或房地產界別的每個人

[00:19:40] sector, and what would that be?

[00:19:40]那會是什麼?

[00:19:42]Michael Wong: [00:19:42] I think what’s happening in the world today is really a strong

[00:19:42]邁克爾·王(Michael Wong):[00:19:42]我認為當今世界正在發生的事情真的是一個

[00:19:50] indication that a lot of things needs to change and how they’re done. And there’s a lot of talks about

[00:19:50]明顯的指標來說明很多事情需要改變,以及如何改變。有很多關於

[00:20:00] whether globalisation was to exist with this pandemic still running rampant and people can’t travel and they can’t see each other. But I think

[00:20:00]全球化是否還會存在,因為疫情仍在肆虐,人們不能旅行,也看不見彼此。但我認為

[00:20:10] globalisation will still continue, but is in much less a physical form.

[00:20:10]全球化仍將會繼續,但其形式遠不是實體形式。

[00:20:13]Darren Wong: [00:20:13] I see.

[00:20:13]Darren Wong:[00:20:13]我明白了。

[00:20:14]Michael Wong: [00:20:14] Instead, I think a lot more things will happen online, right? We didn’t have these zoom calls much, at

[00:20:14]邁克爾·王:[00:20:14]相反,我認為發生更多的事情會在網上發生,對吧?在疫情之前,這些zoom的會議的發生頻率

[00:20:20] least much less frequent, before COVID-19. And so a lot of things will happen online, transactions will happen online, and STO is poised

[00:20:20]沒有像現在那樣頻繁。所以很多事情都會在網上發生,交易也會在網上發生,而STO已經做好了

[00:20:30] to replace a lot of these real-estate-type investments and transactions and activities.

[00:20:30]取代許多此類房地產投資和交易活動的準備。

[00:20:35]Darren Wong: [00:20:35] Actually, that sounds like a very good takeaway for the audience just to know what’s going on. And

[00:20:35]Darren Wong:[00:20:35]實際上,對於觀眾來說,這聽起來很不錯,因為他們知道發生了什麼。以及

[00:20:40] do you have other takeaways that you want the audience to take away from this whole video?

[00:20:40]在整個短片中,你希望觀眾從整個短片中還能獲得什麼其他收穫嗎?

[00:20:45]Michael Wong: [00:20:45] Yeah, I think it’s STO again, it’s a brand new concept. I

[00:20:45]邁克爾·王:[00:20:45]是的,我認為又是證券型代幣,這是一個新概念。我

[00:20:50] think it’s a very interesting concept, whether you’re an investor or an asset holder, it’s something that could be interesting and valuable to you. And so if you’re

[00:20:50]認為這是一個非常有趣的概念,無論你是投資者還是資產持有人,它都可能是你感興趣和有價值的。所以如果你

[00:21:00] looking into this a little bit more and you want to learn more about it, please check out our website, maiblocks.com,

[00:21:00]想瞭解更多資訊,請訪問我們的網站,maiblocks.com,

[00:21:10] m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com and you can even sign up on our platform and check out on deals that we start to have on our platform. And

[00:21:10]m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com,你甚至可以在我們的平臺上注册並查看我們平臺上有的交易。以及

[00:21:20] if you’d like to talk to us personally, maiblocks, we can offer an end-to-end service in the space of Sto. And we would love

[00:21:20]如果你願意親自與我們交談,maiblocks,我們可以在證券型代幣的領域提供點到點的服務。我們希望

[00:21:30] to talk to you about it.                   

[00:21:30]能和你談談。

[00:21:31]Darren Wong: [00:21:31] That’s great. I think, Well, obviously, I will include everything in the show notes. And then I think we should meet up soon because it’s been a while.

[00:21:31]王達倫:太好了。我想,嗯,很明顯,我會把所有的東西都放在資訊欄裡。我想我們應該儘快見面,因為已經有一段時間了。

[00:21:40] Thanks so much for your time. Because we know what Denzity insight, we cover a lot of different things. And STO has been this biggest biggest thing that

[00:21:40]非常感謝你抽出時間。因為我們知道Denzity涵蓋了很多不同的東西。而證券型代幣是其中最大的事情之一

[00:21:50] I even take a long time to learn and digest everything, so I hope that we have this more often some kind of long form discussions. And then even maybe we can

[00:21:50]我甚至要花很長的時間來學習和消化所有的東西,所以我希望我們能經常進行這類型比較長的討論。然後也許我們可以

[00:22:00] have this like whole every quarter of learning about STO what’s going on. So it’s something that I want to thank you for having the time to talk to us and then I hope the audience, too, will learn more about

[00:22:00]每季度都瞭解證券型代幣發生了什麼。所以我要感謝你們有時間和我們交談,然後我希望觀眾也能瞭解更多

[00:22:10] how the whole world will be coming a couple years time.

[00:22:10]未來幾年整個世界將會怎樣。

[00:22:13]Michael Wong: [00:22:13] Yeah, definitely. Thank you for taking the time to learning about our world. And I think this is a great channel for

[00:22:13]邁克爾·王:[00:22:13]是的,當然。感謝你抽出時間來瞭解我們的世界。我認為這是一個很好的渠道

[00:22:20] people like us to communicate new ideas to the world.

[00:22:20]讓像我們這樣的人向世界傳達新的想法。

[00:22:23]Darren Wong: [00:22:23] Yeah. Thanks so much and talk to you next time then, thank you.

[00:22:23]Darren Wong:[00:22:23]是的。非常感謝,下次再和你談談,謝謝。

[00:22:26]Michael Wong: [00:22:26] Alright, see you later. Thank you. Bye bye.

[00:22:26]邁克爾·王:[00:22:26]好的,回頭見。謝謝您。再見。

[00:22:27]Darren Wong: [00:22:27] Bye bye.

[00:22:27]Darren Wong:[00:22:27]再見。

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Malaysia Real Estate Investing For Foreign Investors with Nicholas How


Malaysia Real Estate Investing For Foreign Investors with Nicholas How

Connect with Nicholas:

Website: www.faizulridzuan.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholashowyew/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/faizul.ridzuan.official

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtfaizul/?hl=en

Email: nicholas@farcapital.com.my

WhatsApp: +60162056965

Today, we have Nicholas sharing about how to pick the right property in Malaysia by helping us expand our knowledge on this topic.

Nicholas How is the Head of Sales for FAR Capital. FAR Capital is one of the biggest private real estate buyer groups in Malaysia and they are on the quest to provide the framework and are committed to educating others on what the factors are that determine a profitable investment portfolio.

An investment guide to Malaysia Real Estate

What are the common mistakes investors make?

How to search for the right property in Malaysia?

Sources:

Home Ownership Campaign in Malaysia: HOC is a campaign led by the Malaysian government in order to increase home purchase or promote homeownership in the country.

https://www.propertyguru.com.my/property-guides/should-you-buy-a-home-ownership-campaign-hoc-project-pros-and-cons-30905

FAR Capital: https://farcapital.com.my

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Darren Wong: So hey Nicholas, thanks for coming to the show.

Insights with Nicholas How

Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] So hey Nicholas, thanks for coming to the show.

 Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]嗨,Nicolas,謝謝你來我們的節目。

[00:00:04]Nicholas: [00:00:04] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

 Nicolas:[00:00:04]謝謝。謝謝你邀請我

[00:00:05]Darren Wong: [00:00:05] Yeah, so to give the audience a bit of a background, we had a [00:00:10] show with Amos I think we launched about a couple of weeks ago and

 Darren Wong:[00:00:05]是的,為了給觀眾一些背景知識,我們在幾週之前邀請了Amos

[00:00:10] 上來我們的節目。 

[00:00:20] it got pretty popular. And then a lot of people told me that they’re actually thinking about Malaysia real estate markets. And then Amos was like, you’re someone that like in the whole market, people know who you are, and you could do a good job. So I’m pretty happy to have you here. And because it’s not only learning

 [00:00:20] 反應很熱烈。然後很多人告訴我,他們實際上正在考慮馬來西亞的房地產市場。然後,Amos說,你是整個市場中家傳戶曉的,而且你做得很好。所以,我很高興你在這裡。因為我們不僅要了解

[00:00:30] about Malaysia market it’s about how to be a better investor. So again, thanks for coming in and it’s gonna be a blast, yeah. So for the audience who may not know who you are, would you mind telling the audience about yourself and the company you work [00:00:40] for?

 [00:00:30] 馬來西亞的房地產市場,還關於如何成為更好的投資者。再次謝謝你的光臨。因此,對於可能不知道你是誰的聽眾,你可否向聽眾介紹自己[00:00:40] 和你工作的公司?

[00:00:45]Nicholas: [00:00:45] My name is Nicholas How. I’m the head of sales for FAR Capital, number one. So for FAR

 [00:00:45]Nicolas:[00:00:45] 我叫Nicholas How。我是FAR Capital的銷售主管。在FAR Capital,

[00:00:50] Capital, what we do is that we are actually the biggest buyers right now in Malaysia. Last year, we transacted approximately around 1.8 billion all the way up until this year. So for the past 18 months we

 [00:00:50] 我們所做的實際上是馬來西亞目前最大的買家。去年,直到今年,我們總共進行了約18億筆交易。因此,在過去的18個月中,我們 

[00:01:00] are arguably the biggest private buyer right now in Malaysia. So, why we’re doing this is because number one, we see a lot of investors, foreigners or

 [00:01:00]可以說是目前馬來西亞最大的私人買家。所以,我們之所以這樣做,是因為第一,我們看到很多投資者,外國人或 

[00:01:10] Malaysians, what they do is they invest without really understanding the fundamentals of our property investment. So from my experience out of

 [00:01:10]馬來西亞人,他們會在沒有真正了解我們房地產投資基礎的情況下進行投資。因此,根據我的經驗,

[00:01:20] 100 properties 97 of them will not make you money, it is only like three of them that will actually make you money. So, our objective, our vision for the company is to

 [00:01:20] 在100處的房產中,有97處不會賺錢,只有其中三處會真正為你賺錢。因此,我們的目標是,我們對公司的願景是 

[00:01:30] actually increase the knowledge of property investment, increase their investors’ knowledge so that they can actually make money. So as an investor, and the only thing that you want to do is make

 [00:01:30] 實際增加投資者對房地產投資的知識,以便他們實際上可以賺錢。因此,作為投資者,你唯一要做的就是 

[00:01:40] money, right, so we want to, we want to mitigate that, the people that are losing money. That’s the main objective.

 [00:01:40] 賺錢,對吧,所以我們想要,所以我們希望緩和那些正在虧錢的人。這是主要的目標。

[00:01:47]Darren: [00:01:47] I see. Yeah, I think when we had a [00:01:50] call, I think a month ago, and the call was actually really good because it obviously tells how much you care about this. And there’s one thing you measure right away it’s price, price, price, not

 [00:01:47]Darren:[00:01:47] 我明白了。對了,在大概一個月前,我們[00:01:50] 通過電話,這個通話實際上非常好,因為它顯然表明了你對此有多關心。而有一件事你立即衡量的是價格,價格,價格,而不是 

[00:02:00] location, location, location. Would you mind elaborating that to the audience? Because I think when you shared some insight about the Malaysia market and how things are, I was kind of shocked, I never

 [00:02:00]位置,位置,位置。你介意將其詳細介紹給聽眾嗎?因為我認為,當你分享一些有關馬來西亞市場和現狀的見解時,我感到非常震驚,我以前

[00:02:10] heard of that before. So would you mind elaborating that further?

 [00:02:10] 從未聽說過。因此,你介意進一步說明嗎? 

[00:02:13]Nicholas: [00:02:13] Alright, so I think everyone heard about this. Live on trauma calling location, location,

[00:02:13]Nicolas:[00:02:13] 好的,所以我想每個人都聽說過這一點,像咒語般的位置,位置,

[00:02:20] location. I think it went all the way until Hong Kong. It has been prevalent in Malaysia. But from research or from deepest point of view, when you look at it right, location actually

[00:02:20]位置。我認為這一直流行到香港。它在馬來西亞很普遍。但是從研究或最深層的角度來看,只要正確看待,位置實際上 

[00:02:30] doesn’t play that important of a role. I’ll give you an example. KLCC, majority of the Hong Kong viewers, your Hong Kong viewers would know where KLCC is right? They’ve got the best location in terms of

[00:02:30]扮演的角色並不重要。我舉一個例子。吉隆坡城中城(KLCC),大多數的香港觀眾,你的香港觀眾會知道KLCC在哪裡嗎?就地理位置而言,

[00:02:40] location wise, they’re the best. You’ve got your LRT station, you’ve got your shopping, one of the best shopping malls, you’ve got Grade A offices, you’ve got hotels, so in terms of location,

[00:02:40] 他們擁有最好的位置,他們坐擁黃金地段。那裡有輕軌站,購物場所,最好的購物中心之一,甲級寫字樓,酒店,因此在地理位置上, 

[00:02:50] there’s no place primer compared to KLCC. So that is like the financial center of KL. Yeah, or the oil and gas center of KL, right. But if

[00:02:50]與KLCC相比,沒有比它更好的了。這就像吉隆坡的金融中心。是的,或者是吉隆坡的石油和天然氣中心,對。但是如果 

[00:03:00] you invested in KLCC 12 years ago, right versus a suburban area called Puchong. There’s a suburban area in Puchong, if you

[00:03:00]你是在12年前投資在KLCC的話,相對於在城郊的蒲種(Puchong)。蒲種有一個城郊區,如果你 

[00:03:10] invested 12 years ago, in KLCC, you would not have made any money. In fact, you might have lost money compared to you investing in Puchong, the suburban area, you would have

[00:03:10] 12年前投資於KLCC,你將不會賺到任何錢。實際上,與在城郊的蒲種投資相比,你可能已經蒙受了損失

[00:03:20] easily doubled what you have, right? So for me personally, it is never about location. It is always about the price

[00:03:20]但相反,你的資產將輕鬆翻倍,對吧?因此,對我個人而言,這與位置無關。它總是與你最初買入 

[00:03:30] that you bought into. So it could be one of the not so pride area like Puchong, but if you have bought it cheap enough, over the long

[00:03:30] 的價格有關。因此,它可能是像蒲種這種沒有高度發展的地區之一,但是如果你以足夠便宜的價格購買了它,從長遠 

[00:03:40] run, the property price has got a higher tendency to increase or double versus paying a premium price for a premium location and it would just be

[00:03:40] 來看,與為優質地段支付溢價相比,蒲種的房地產價格有增加或翻倍的趨勢,相反,優質地點的地價只會

[00:03:50] stagnant. So for me, for the viewers for everyone else that is listening location, location location is important, but not as

[00:03:50] 停滯不前。所以對我來說,對於其他位置的觀眾來說,位置很重要,但不及 

[00:04:00] important as understanding the price that you’re paying. Not as important as understanding the median price that you’re paying. So from their point of view, so just to give a context to your viewers right,

[00:04:00] 了解你所支付的價格來得重要;不像了解你要支付的中位數來得重要。因此,從他們的角度來看,為了給你的觀眾一個框架,

[00:04:10] when they are coming to Malaysia, the first place that they’re looking at will always be KLCC. So that is how the agents has framed them. That’s how the real estate agency in Malaysia

[00:04:10]當他們來馬來西亞時,他們所關注的第一個地方永遠是KLCC。這樣便是那些代理商如何框著他們。馬來西亞的房地產中介 

[00:04:20] has brought them over. But what they do not understand is that in the KLCC, median price, anything you pick above 1500 ringgit, you will

[00:04:20] 就是這樣把他們帶過來的。但是,他們不了解的是,在KLCC的中位數中,如果你選擇的價格高於1500令吉, 

[00:04:30] not make money. So you understand median price, first and foremost, you understand the median of that area, and then you understand whether you’re buying below median, or above

[00:04:30] 你將不會賺錢。因此,你首先要了解的就是中位數,你要了解該區域的中位數,然後再了解物業價格是低於中位數還是高於 

[00:04:40] median, anything that you buy below median, you have got a higher chance of making money. And if you’re buying above median, that’s where you have a higher chance of losing [00:04:50] money.

[00:04:40]中位數,任何低於中位數的物業,就有更大的獲利機會。如果你付的價錢是高於中位數的話,你就有更大的機會

[00:04:50] 會虧損。 

[00:04:52]Darren Wong: [00:04:52] So you know, that’s something that’s interesting, because that’s the point you mentioned before over the call. And I was kind of shocked. I never thought that way. So in that regard

Darren Wong:[00:04:52]所以,你知道,這很有趣,因為這是你之前在通話中提到的重點。我有點震驚。我從來沒有那樣想過。所以在這方面 

[00:05:00] what are some things that the audience can do to mitigate that because it sounds like a very gray area, like there are assets that you have to buy, certain price points, but then that is a gray

[00:05:00]觀眾可以採取哪些措施來緩解這種情況呢?因為這聽起來像是一個灰色地帶,例如你必須購買某些資產,在特定的價格點,但那是個灰色

[00:05:10] area because not many people can afford it, for example, in this case, right, how would we mitigate it?

[00:05:10]地帶,因為沒有多少人能負擔得起,例如,在這種情況下,對,我們將如何緩解呢? 

[00:05:15]Nicholas: [00:05:15] So how we mitigate it is that I’m going to be sharing my screen if you don’t mind.

[00:05:15]Nicolas:[00:05:15]因此,我們的緩解措施是,如果你不介意,我將會共享我的屏幕。 

[00:05:19]Darren Wong: [00:05:19] Sure go [00:05:20] ahead, yeah.

Darren Wong:[00:05:19]當然[00:05:20],去吧。 

[00:05:27]Nicholas: [00:05:27] There are actually a few criterias for your investors or for your viewers alright. So there are actually a few criterias that you need to be aware

[00:05:27]Nicolas:[00:05:27]實際上,對於你的投資者或你的觀眾來說,有幾項標準。因此,實際上你需要留意幾項標準 

[00:05:30] of. I’m going to share with you this – actually quite a simple investment criteria. There’s only five. So let me share my [00:05:40] screen…I can’t share screen.

[00:05:30]。我將與你分享這一點-實際上是一個簡單的投資標準。只有五個。因此,讓我分享我的[00:05:40]屏幕…我無法分享屏幕。 

[00:05:43] Darren Wong: [00:05:43] Okay so what I can do is you can tell me which slide and then I can put that on our videos.

Darren Wong: [00:05:43]好吧,我能做的就是你告訴我哪張幻燈片,然後將其放到我們的影片中。 

[00:05:49]Nicholas: [00:05:49] Alright so [00:05:50] this is actually slide number five, alright? So, slide number five, you can actually see there’s a five investment criteria for your particular viewers. So, what happens is this

Nicolas:[00:05:49]好吧,[00:05:50]這實際上是第五張幻燈片,對吧?因此,在第五張幻燈片中,你實際上可以看到針對特定觀眾的五個投資標準。所以事情是這樣的 

[00:06:00] number one, if you’re looking at buying into Malaysia, the first thing you need to look into is the international expat community.

[00:06:00]第一,如果你打算在馬來西亞置業,那麼你需要考慮的第一件事就是國際社區。 

[00:06:10] So as a Hong Kong buyer, the first thing you need to understand is that you must look into the expat community. That’s where the Hong Kong people are. That’s where they

[00:06:10]因此,作為香港買家,你需要了解的第一件事是,你必須了解移居海外者的

群體。那就是香港人的所在地。他們在那裡 

[00:06:20] spend their days there. That’s where they buy their property, that’s where they send their kids to school. That’s where they buy their groceries. You need to have this kind of support system in place.

[00:06:20]在那裡消磨時光。那是他們置業的地方,那是他們送孩子上學的地方。那是他們買雜貨的地方。你需要這種的支持系統。 

[00:06:30] First things first, you need to get that support system in place for you to have a very meaningful stay in Malaysia, right? There’s no point for you buying in a place even though the building might be great,

[00:06:30]首先,你需要有一個支持系統,才能在馬來西亞享有非常有意義的住宿,對吧?即使建築物可能很棒,但是你沒有一個支持系統的話,也沒有必要在某個地方置業吧

[00:06:40] but you’ve got no support system. So always focus on the international expat community. These people have been in Malaysia for the past 10-15 years. They know for a fact that whether the property that they bought is actually a good one

[00:06:40]。因此,請專注於國際社區。這些人過去10到15年一直在馬來西亞。他們知道一個事實,那就是他們購買的房產實際上是否是一個好的物業 

[00:06:50] or a bad one, right. Number two, always focus on the international schools. Now I’m gonna take a step into KLCC right. There’s a reason why the rich

[00:06:50]還是不好的物業。第二,始終專注於國際學校。現在,我將在踏入KLCC。在馬來西亞的有錢人,

[00:07:00] people in Malaysia, right, or the rich people who are the experts don’t particularly choose KLCC, if they’ve got a family it’s because the lack of

[00:07:00]或者是外來的有錢人並沒有特別選擇KLCC,如果他們有家庭,那是因為KLCC缺乏 

[00:07:10] international schools in KLCC, right? So if you are single, the likelihood of you choosing KLCC is quite high, because, you

[00:07:10]國際學校,對吧?因此,如果你單身,那麼你選擇KLCC的可能性就很高,因為 

[00:07:20] know, you’d want to stay there, there’s got a nightlife, that et cetera, et cetera. But if you’ve got a family, you’ve got a wife, two kids and a dog, right? You don’t want to choose KLCC, because there’s a lack of international schools, or you need to drive two hours, to and for approximately, two hours to just to send your kids to school and go back

[00:07:20]你會想呆在那裡,那裡有夜生活,等等。但是如果你有一個家庭,你有一個妻子,兩個孩子和一條狗的話,你不會想選擇KLCC,因為那裡缺少國際學校,或者你需要開車兩個小時左右才能送孩子上學並返回 

[00:07:30] to your office, right? So always focus on international schools, you need to have that if you’re looking

[00:07:30]到你的辦公室,對吧?所以,你想在這裡在長期居留的話

[00:07:40] to stay here longer. The third one is actually the commercial vibrancy, and also the first class infrastructure. You don’t want to stay in a place where there’s not even a

[00:07:40] 必須專注於國際學校 。第三個實際上是商業活力和一流的基礎設施。你不會想呆在一個沒有正式的 

[00:07:50] proper mall, right? So you’ve got to always look for something with a proper mall, with a proper grocer that you can do your shopping in and your first class infrastructure meaning

[00:07:50]購物中心的地方吧?因此,你必須尋找一個有合適的購物中心,可以買菜的雜貨店的地方。而一流的基礎設施是指

[00:08:00] your highways, alright. So all these things contribute to a better living standard, if you’re planning to stay here, or you’re planning to invest here, because you see, once you buy into

[00:08:00]高速公路,好的。所以,如果你打算留在這裡,或者打算在這裡投資,那麼所有這些事情都會有助於改善生活水平,因為一旦你在

[00:08:10] Malaysia, the dream or the bargain is to actually rent it out to expats. Right? The expats will always look into these criterias first and foremost, so the chances of

[00:08:10]馬來西亞置業,最理想的情況是把物業出租給外籍人士。對吧?外派人員會始終首先考慮這些標準,所以 

[00:08:20] you getting an expat tenant is much higher if you follow the criteria, right? So number four, you always have a plan B, right? So I know it’s going to be

[00:08:20]如果你遵循這些準則,你得到外籍租戶的機會會高得多,對吧?所以第四點,你總是會有一個B計劃,對吧?所以我知道這將會是 

[00:08:30] very, very hard for your viewers to identify the median price because it takes local knowledge of local capabilities to identify

[00:08:30]對於你的觀眾來說,確定中間位價格非常非常困難,因為需要有本地的知識來確定 

[00:08:40] the median price of the area, and then use the property to benchmark against the median price of the area. So you need the local knowledge, right? So it’s actually quite rather simple if it’s for your

[00:08:40]該區域的中間價格,然後使用該物業來作為該地區的中間價格的基準。所以你需要當地知識,對吧?因此,對於你的觀眾來說

[00:08:50] own viewers. You always have a plan B. Now, what Plan B means is this. A lot of people are agents in the approach you, they’ll say hey, you’re buying for own stay so it

[00:08:50]其實十分簡單。你總是需要有一個B計劃。現在, B計劃的意思是,很多人是採用這種方式的代理商,他們會說,嘿,你是買來自住的,所以

[00:09:00] doesn’t matter. As long as you like it, buy, you can afford, buy. that is not a good idea or a good strategy. The reason why is because what if you want to move back to 

[00:09:00]沒關係。只要你喜歡,就買吧,只要你負擔得起,就買吧。但那不是一個好主意或一個好的策略。原因是因為如果你想在5至10年後搬回

[00:09:10] Hong Kong after 5 to 10 years? What if you want to move back? Right? What if you want to move to Singapore? Right? People need change, people want change, right? So having a

[00:09:10]香港該怎麼辦?如果你想回去怎麼辦?對吧?如果你想搬到新加坡怎麼辦?對吧?人們需要改變,人們想要改變,對吧?所以有一個 

[00:09:20] plan B makes sure that you number one, first and foremost, you don’t lose money, right? So always look for properties that will give you a 4% rental yield.

[00:09:20]B計劃確保你首先,你不會有虧損,對吧?因此,請務必尋找能給你帶來4%租金收益的物業。

[00:09:30] So now, why do I say that is that if you look at the median price of a median price of KLCC, and you take any properties in KLCC, take the rental, the average

[00:09:30]現在,為什麼我要說的是,如果你看一下KLCC的中位數價格,並且你選擇KLCC中的任何物業,那麼就將租金,

[00:09:40] rental on that area, divided up by your purchase price, you can actually see you can roughly know whether you’re hitting the 4% or not. So always focus on the properties that will give you the 4% and

[00:09:40]該區平均的租金除以買入的,你實際上可以大致了解到自己是否達到了4%。因此,請始終專注於可為你帶來4%和的物業

[00:09:50] if you can hit the 4% rental you’re relatively safe, you’re at least on median, right? So number five, always remember never pay

[00:09:50]如果你能達到4%的租金水平,那你就相對安全了,你至少位於中位數,對吧?所以第五點,記住永遠不要付出 

[00:10:00] foreigner price. Now this is an insight to your viewers. This is an insight to your investors that a lot of people dare not say it out loud. I’m gonna make a lot of enemies right here

[00:10:00]外國人的價格。現在,這對你的觀眾來說是一種見解。這是對你的投資者的一種洞悉,很多人不敢大聲說出來。我這樣說將會在這裡結交很多敵人 。

 [00:10:10] to say this but I will say it out. A lot of times these projects that are brought over to Hong Kong are all the mitering for meaning we cannot

[00:10:10]但我會說出來。很多時候,這些移交給香港的項目都意味著我們無法在當地

[00:10:20] sell, Malaysians don’t want to buy; I’ve exhausted every opportunity, every avenue to sell to Malaysians, I cannot sell. Now I bring it to Hong Kong

[00:10:20]出售,馬來西亞人不想買入;我已經用盡了所有機會,每種途徑賣給馬來西亞人,但我無法賣掉。現在我把它們帶到香港 

[00:10:30] hopefully, willingly taking in people who are most likely getting suckered into this. So they always have a foreigner price that they sell it to Hong Kong.

[00:10:30]希望能吸引到那些最有可能掉下陷阱的人。因此,他們總是以外國人的價格賣給香港人。 

[00:10:40] The reason why is because even with the Malaysian price this price does not make sense to Malaysians. Even the Malaysians noble rich, Malaysians are rich. If you look at the Mount

[00:10:40]原因是因為即使以馬來西亞價格計算,這個價格對馬來西亞人也不合理。即使是馬來西亞人高尚的有錢人,馬來西亞人也有錢。如果你看滿家樂的

[00:10:50] Kiera price versus the KLCC price, yeah actually more or less the same. Look at ttdi Obasanjo more or less the same, but the Malaysians will buy Mont Keira, the Malaysians will buy Bangsa, will buy ttdi

[00:10:50] 價錢與KLCC的價錢,實際上差不多一樣。看看Taman Tun Dr. Ismail (TTDI)的Obasanjo差不多還是一樣,但是馬來西亞人會購買滿家樂,馬來西亞人會買入Bangsa,也會買入 TTDI。

[00:11:00] and they will not buy overpriced, hyped up stuff, right or predominately KLCC. So those are the things that they are actually pushing out to foreigners,

[00:11:00]他們不會購買定價過高或大肆炒作的東西,對吧,或是KLCC。這些就是他們實際上向外國人推出的東西, 

[00:11:10] the leftovers that nobody wants. So focus on these five criterias you will most likely never make the wrong purchase focus on these five areas. That’s my advice to your [00:11:20] buyers.

[00:11:10]沒有人想要的物業。因此,專注於這五個標準,專注在5個標準上的話,你很可能不會做出錯誤的決定。這是我對[00:11:20]買家的建議。 

[00:11:20]Darren Wong: [00:11:20] Right that’s really good because there’s a couple of things you mentioned it’s something I think I told you before I used to be on the buy side. And then we always understood that

Darren Wong:[00:11:20]很好,因為你提到了幾件事,是我以前作為買家時曾經告訴過你的。然後我們總是明白到 

[00:11:30] if some deals are pushing foreigners from across the board, like across the ocean or something, there’s a really big foreigner price and it’s

[00:11:30]如果某些交易以一洋之隔的外國人為目標的,那麼交易的價格會是龐大的外國人價格,而且 

[00:11:40] something that I hope that our product can bridge and the same that you can find direct channel, find direct expert in the location instead of paying a

[00:11:40]我希望我們的產品可以橋接,你可以找到直接渠道,可以直接找到當地的專家,而不是支付一定的佣金 

[00:11:50] premium because there’s no point and then that 1% or 2% means a lot when it comes to real estate investing. So go back a little bit and obviously by the way, that was really good insight because it’s somebody

[00:11:50]因為那毫無意義,然後就房地產投資而言那1%或2%的佣金意味著很多。所以回頭再說一遍,顯然,那是非常好的見解,因為有人 

[00:12:00] that not only applies to Malaysia, it’s applied to many different cities it’s that, for example, you said before the tenant might be different maybe just because you’re single or like me, or living in the

[00:12:00]這不僅適用於馬來西亞,還適用於許多不同的城市,例如,你之前就說過對於租戶來說可能有所不同,可能僅僅是因為你是單身或者像我一樣,是住在 

[00:12:10] city, but if you think about putting yourself in the shoes on someone who’s a family, they might be something else. So I want to go back a little bit on the fourth point, right? When [00:12:20] you say 4% rent, does that mean the gross or net?

[00:12:10]城市,但是如果你是有家室的,那就可能有另一些考慮的因素。所以我想回到第四點,對吧?當[00:12:20]時,你說租金是4%,那是毛額還是淨額? 

[00:12:26]Nicholas: [00:12:26] It could be gross, right? To get 4% rental [00:12:30] you are looking across, I’m not very familiar with the interest rate in Hong Kong. But in Malaysia right now, it’s actually less than 3%. The effective rate is

Nicolas:[00:12:26]可能毛額,對嗎?要獲得4%的租金[00:12:30],我對香港的利率不是很熟悉。但目前在馬來西亞,這一比例實際上不到3%。實效率為 

[00:12:40] 3.5, 3.4. You’re getting a 4% basically means that you’re covering everything that you have. So taking 4% is actually not a bad deal, especially if you’re a foreigner buying something

[00:12:40] 3.5,3.4。你獲得4%基本上意味著你能回本。所以拿取4%實際上不是一件壞事,特別是如果你是一個外國人

[00:12:50] here, right? So for me hitting that 4% is good enough for the foreigners. And just to add on to your point right saying

[00:12:50]在這裡購買物業,對嗎?所以對我來說,達到4%的租金對外國人來說足夠了。只是為了補充你的意見

[00:13:00] that looking at agents or looking at, you know, experts or whatnot, right? My suggestion to your viewers, don’t believe any expert, any agent, anyone,

[00:13:00]在中介或專家或其他專家,對吧?我對你的觀眾的建議是,不要相信任何專家,任何中介,任何人, 

[00:13:10] just follow the five criteria, you can make your own decision really. So just like that, yeah, you have just broken the code of investing in Malaysia alright. So you don’t have to believe me, you don’t have to believe

[00:13:10]只要遵循這五個標準,你就可以真正做出自己的決定。就是這樣,你剛剛拆開了在馬來西亞投資的密碼。所以你不必相信我,你不必相信 任何人

[00:13:20] in whoever so long as you follow this criteria and say, “Hey, do I have an expat community here? Hey, do I have an international school here? Hey, do I have a you know, first class infrastructure,

[00:13:20]只要你遵循此標準並說:“嗨,這裡有外國人社區嗎?嗨,這裡有國際學校嗎?嗨,這裡有一流的基礎設施 

[00:13:30] my commercial vibrancy is there? Can I get a 4% complete for me? Can I get a 4% and actually, am I paying a foreigner price here? What is everybody paying around here?” With these five criteria

[00:13:30]和商業活力嗎?我可以得到4%的租金嗎?我可以得到4%的租金,實際上,我是在支付外國人價格嗎?每個人都付什麼樣的價格呢?”有了這五個標準 

[00:13:40] you will never go wrong with investing in property as a foreigner.

[00:13:40]你作為外國人投資房地產絕對不會出錯。 

[00:13:44]Darren Wong: [00:13:44] I see. Because I’m sure you’re aware, this show, this whole series is for [00:13:50] foreigners to learn about the different markets and in this case, it’s the Malaysia properties right. So I have a two part question because a lot of people start rely on real estate platforms, right and then

[00:13:44]Darren Wong:[00:13:44]我明白了。因為我想,你也知道這整個節目,是讓[00:13:50]外國人了解關於不同的市場,在這種情況下,這是馬來西亞房地產的產權。所以我有一個兩部分的問題,因為很多人開始依賴房地產平台,然後 

[00:14:00] I know that in Malaysia there’s you know, Iproperty, Property Guru, Brickz, like already useful and what is something that people can rely on and at the same time

[00:14:00]我知道在馬來西亞,像Iproperty,Property Guru,Brickz已經很有用,人們可以同時依賴什麼呢? 

[00:14:10] what are somethings that they are not good at, you know you need that five criteria before to compensate. And another question is with these platforms

[00:14:10]它們不擅長的是什麼,你知道需要那五個標準來輔助。另一個問題是這些平台 

[00:14:20] or other ways, what are some ways that you suggest them to assess and search for the right properties?

[00:14:20]或其他方式,你建議他們有哪些方法能評估和尋找對的物業? 

[00:14:26]Nicholas: [00:14:26] Okay, so I’m gonna say the first tackle, [00:14:30] the first question first, what’s the pros and cons right? I think each and every platform has got their own strengths. Use Brickz. Personally, I use Brickz,

[00:14:26]Nicolas:[00:14:26]好的,所以我要回答第一個問題,[00:14:30]首先要問的第一個問題是 它們的優缺點,對吧?我認為每個平台都有自己的優勢。就像Brickz。我個人使用Brickz, 

[00:14:40] I use Brickz to identify the products that are transacted prices. Brickz, always has the transacted prices right. I use Brickz and then

[00:14:40]我使用Brickz來確定物業的交易價格。Brickz總是有正確的交易價格。我用Brickz然後 

[00:14:50] I go over to Iproperty or Property Guru to actually double check on the listing price. So the reason why is because of this, there’s

[00:14:50]我轉到Iproperty或Property Guru來仔細檢查定價。之所以這樣是因為 

[00:15:00] also practice in Malaysia, again, I’m gonna be making a lot of enemies here alright. Listing price is 1 million ringgit, meaning I’m asking from you Darren, I’m selling my property to

[00:15:00]同樣在馬來西亞的做法是,我會再次的結交很多敵人。定價為一百萬令吉,這意味著我向Darren你問,我要把我的物業以一百萬令吉

[00:15:10] you at 1 million ringgit. When I go over to Brickz and I look at the transacted price right, it becomes 2 million ringgit. So it’s illogical, right? I’m telling you, “Hey Darren,

[00:15:10]賣給你。當我到Brickz並查看交易價格時,該價格變為200萬令吉。這不合邏輯,對吧?我告訴你,“嗨,Darren, 

[00:15:20] you want to buy my property a million ringgit?”, then you tell me, “No, I want to buy it for 2 million.” It doesn’t make sense, right. But this is what’s happening in Malaysia in some

[00:15:20]你想以一百萬令吉的價錢買我的物業?”然後你告訴我:“不,我想以200萬令吉的價錢購入。”這沒有道理,對吧。但這在馬來西亞正在發生

[00:15:30] part of Malaysia, some part of games on peninsula some part of the projects right? Due to the fact that they want to mark up the transaction price, it’s a fake transaction.

[00:15:30]在馬來西亞的某部分,在半島上的一些樓盤的一些把戲,對吧?由於他們想提高交易價格,這是假的交易。 

[00:15:40] So they use this transaction to show to investors and say look, I’ve got a transaction price of 2 million, but in actual fact, the actual asking price is only a million ringgit. So for me,

[00:15:40]因此,他們利用此交易來向投資者展示並說,我的交易價格為200萬令吉,但實際上,實際要價僅為100萬令吉。所以對我來說 

[00:15:50] to your viewers what I would suggest is to use Brickz to identify the transaction price, once you identify which one then go over to Iproperty or Property Guru to identify those

[00:15:50]對你的觀眾來說,我建議你使用Brickz來確定成交價格,一旦確定了價格,然後轉到Iproperty或Property Guru來確定

[00:16:00] particular projects, give those agents the call to check, double check and triple check the numbers. Use that one. That’s what buying properties right. As for

[00:16:00]特定項目,給那些中介打電話檢查,仔細看清楚並再三檢查銀碼。用那個銀碼。這就是購買房地產的正確方法。至於 

[00:16:10] rental in itself in Iproperty and Property Guru, there’s a lot of rental being asked. So the rental let’s say for example is 3000. ringgit right? Transacted rental might be

[00:16:10] 在Iproperty 和 Property Guru上出租的物業,有很多都被問價。舉例來說,租金是3000令吉對吧?成交的租金可能是 

[00:16:20] a bit lower, technically, from my experience, majority of them are a bit lower, call them to ask, not as, not as the renter, but as an owner,

[00:16:20]低一點,從技術上來說,根據我的經驗,很多的物業的租金都會比較低,打電話給中介問,不是以租客,而是以業主, 

[00:16:30] call the agents to ask them, “Hey, I’m an owner of this property. Can you tell me how much realistically can you rent it out?” The agents will tell you the truth, “Oh actually, you

[00:16:30]打電話給中介,問他們:“嗨,我是這套房產的業主。你能告訴我你實際上可以以什麼價錢租出?” 中介會告訴你真相,“噢,實際上,你 

[00:16:40] can only rent it out for $2500.” But I’ll put $3000 just in case they negotiate then we’ll bring it down. So use those platforms wisely. Use

[00:16:40]可以以2500元租出去。“但我會寫3000美元,以防他們討價還價,然後我們會把價錢降低。所以,請明智地使用這些平台。 

[00:16:50] those platforms to identify the prices, the actual prices, I’m teaching you the insight trick of how to use it, and use it wisely. That’s how the second question apologies I actually [00:17:00] missed the second question.

[00:16:50]用這些平台來識別價格,實際的價錢,我正在教你如何使用並明智地使用它的洞察力技巧。這就是如何第二個問題很抱歉我其實[00:17:00] 跳過了第二個問題

[00:17:02]Darren: [00:17:02] Oh so I think you mentioned before, what suggestions do you have for the audience to assess and search for the right [00:17:10] properties?

[00:17:02]Darren:[00:17:02]噢,我想你之前已經提到過,所以你有什麼建議供觀眾評估和搜索正確的[00:17:10]物業? 

[00:17:11]Nicholas: [00:17:11] Alright, look at again, go back to the five criteria. Once you identify the five criteria, you identify you.

[00:17:11]Nicolas:[00:17:11]好吧,再看一遍,再次回到五個的標準。一旦確定了五個標準,你就可以確定你的地區

[00:17:20] Search via Property Guru or Iproperty or anyway search for those properties and identify those. For me, my suggestion to your viewers is use those

[00:17:20]然後通過Property Guru或Iproperty進行搜索,或者搜索這些物業並進行標識。對我來說,我對你的觀眾的建議是使用那些 

[00:17:30] search engines, you will find any and all type of properties, okay. It’s just that

[00:17:30]搜索引擎,你會發現所有類型的不同的物業,好的。就是這樣 

[00:17:40] the caveat to it is that how do you then identify? Is this property good or bad? So that’s the only caveat. So for me, I use Property Guru and Iproperty to search for properties. It is just that from there onwards, how do I then identify whether this one is good? Please bear in mind or remember the first

[00:17:40]只是要注意的是,你如何確定這物業是好是壞呢?這是唯一的警告。所以,對我來說,我使用Property Guru和Iproperty來搜索物業。只是從那以後,我該如何確定這物業是否好?請記住

[00:17:50] rule, hard and first rule is that 97% of the properties in Malaysia won’t make money. So you need to, your audience needs to use the five criteria again to assess or [00:18:00] identify that 3% of the properties.

[00:17:50]首要的規則是,馬來西亞97%的物業不會賺錢。因此,你需要,你的觀眾需要再次使用這五個標準來評估或[00:18:00]確認那3%的物業。 

[00:18:03]Darren Wong: [00:18:03] I see. So there’s something that you mentioned before it’s called the property grading template from you.

Darren Wong:[00:18:03]我明白了。所以,你之前提到過一樣東西,它被你稱為物業評分模板。 

[00:18:10] Would you mind telling the audience like how they use it because I think you’re generous enough to tell us that, hey, there’s a place where you can download a link in the show notes and everything. Like Would you mind elaborating on what

[00:18:10]你介意告訴觀眾是如何使用它的嗎?因為我認為你已經慷慨地告訴我們,嗨,你可以在節目的資訊欄下載這條鏈結還有其他的資料。你介意詳細說明 

[00:18:20] this is for and then how people can use it?

[00:18:20]它的用處和人們能如何使用它嗎?

[00:18:22]Nicholas: [00:18:22] Right. So I’m going to use this grading system that we have faculty has used this grading system. Right. You have a grade A, B, C, D,

[00:18:22]Nicolas:[00:18:22]好的。所以,我會用這個在FAR Capital也使用的評分系統。有五個等級,A,B,C,D, E級。

[00:18:30] and E. Right? 97% of them, the properties like the 97% will be grade C, D, and grade E. Now what does that

[00:18:30]其中有97%的房產,分別是C,D和E級。 那是

[00:18:40] mean? Grade E, I’m going to go for grade E, grade E is where you actually lose more than $100,000. If you purchase a property

[00:18:40]什麼意思?E級,首先是E級,E級實際上是你損失超過100,000令吉的物業。如果你今天買入物業 

[00:18:50] today, when you want to sell it five years later, five years later down the road. So you will be losing more than $100,000. So

[00:18:50]當您想在五年後將其出售時。你將損失超過100,000令吉。所以 

[00:19:00] that’s one. Number two, in terms of cash flow, negative will be more than $600 all the way to $2000 ringgit. Every month,

[00:19:00]那是其一。第二,在現金流方面,負數將一直超過600令吉直到2000令吉。每個月, 

 [00:19:10] you’re losing money up until $2000 a year. And if you sell, you lose more than $100,000 ringgit. So there’s a huge loss, right? So

[00:19:10]你都在賠錢,可以去到每年 2000令吉的損失。如果賣出,你將損失超過100,000令吉。所以會有巨大的損失,對不對?所以 

[00:19:20] that’s grade E. So there’s also a grade D. Where you’ve got no profit, even if you sell or you lost $50,000 ringgit when you sell. Negative every month up until $500

[00:19:20]那是E級。然後到D級。即使你賣出,你也沒有獲利,什至賣出時損失了$ 50,000令吉,而且每月都有高達500令吉的負數。

[00:19:30] ringgit, so that’s grade D, right. Grade C is that you don’t lose, you don’t win when you sell. Your cash flow is break

[00:19:30]那是D級,對。C級是當你賣出時,打和了。你的現金流每個月

[00:19:40] even every month, meaning your rental is just enough to cover in installments, plus your maintenance fee. So that’s grade C, 97% of the properties in Malaysia will fall into grade C, grade D and grade

[00:19:40]都收支平衡,這意味著你的租金足以支付分期付款的費用和維護的費用。所以,這是C級,在馬來西亞97%的物業都可分為C級,D級和 

[00:19:50] E. So what we are looking for in FAR capital there’s only grade A and grade B and which I hope from your audience’s as well they’re going to be using this

[00:19:50] E級.因此,我們在FAR Capital尋找的只有A級和B級,我也希望你的聽眾也將使用此

[00:20:00] template to look for properties as well. So grade B is where upon completion when you sell it, there’s minimum 10% upside.

[00:20:00]模板來尋找物業。B級是你賣出時會有10%的升幅。

[00:20:10] Cash flow is positive cash flow by $100 to $200.All right, grade a is where upon exit the property, when you sell the

[00:20:10]現金流是有一到兩百元的增幅。好的,A級是當你出售物業時,

[00:20:20] property, you’re making 20%. While cash flow will be positive more than $300 ringgit. So, we are focusing on Grade A and Grade B only.

[00:20:20]你賺了20%。而現金流則有多於三百元的增幅。所以,我們只會專注在A級和B級的物業上。

[00:20:30] So, how do you then access capital appreciation and cash flow right? Again, you go back to the original template, the criteria

[00:20:30]那麼,你如何才能獲得資本增值和現金流呢?再次,您回到原先的模板,即那五個條件 

[00:20:40] that we have, the five criteria so as an foreign investor, there’s a lot of properties that you can’t be buying. Anything that is below 1 million ringgit in Kuala Lumpur you can’t buy; anything below 2 million ringgit in

[00:20:40]我們有五個條件,所以作為一名外國投資者,有很多你無法購買的房地產。在吉隆坡,任何低於一百萬令吉的物業你都無法購買;在] Salalah,低於200萬令吉的物業

[00:20:50] Salalah, you can’t buy. So you have to buy above 2 million you have to buy above a million. So you’re even more limited in terms of property that you’re purchasing. Understand this

[00:20:50你都無法購買。因此,你必須購買200萬以上的物業,而你必須購買100萬以上的物業。因此,你所買入的物業受到了更大的限制。了解這個 

[00:21:00] grading. Use this grading, and then you use those criteria. If you use those criteria, you’re most likely to hit either a Grade B or C. Will you be able to

[00:21:00]評分。使用此評分,然後套用那些標準。如果使用這些標準,則最有可能找到是B級或C級的物業。有可能

[00:21:10] hit a grade A? The answer is yes, but you’re looking like a diamond in the rough. You’re the whole of careless law law. Mind you, I can only think of

[00:21:10]買到A級的物業?答案是可以,但是機會很微。在整個吉隆坡找到的機會很少。提醒你,我只能想到 

[00:21:20] one project in the past two to years. Only one project that is suitable for foreign investors.

[00:21:20]在過去的幾年中只有一個項目。只有一個是適合外國投資者的項目。 

Darren: [00:21:23] Wow, that’s very, very crazy then. Wow. Wow, that’s a that’s a very, very crazy, then.

Darren:[00:21:23]哇,那真是太瘋狂了。哇。哇,那真是太瘋狂了。 

[00:21:30] You know, it’s very hard to find one but I’m sure if someone like you has the groundwork, has the potential, has all the knowledge and everything they can get that kind of opportunities because it’s hard for us I mean, like

[00:21:30]你知道,雖然很難找到一個很好的物業,但是我敢肯定,如果像你一樣打好基礎,而又擁有潛力,擁有需要的知識和一切,他們可以得到這種機會,因為這對我們來說很難,我的意思是 

[00:21:40] if today for example, if I’m not from Hong Kong, where would I know where to invest? And so same as the logic too so it’s often someone on the ground would be a lot easier.

[00:21:40]以今天為例,如果我不是香港人,我怎會知道應該在哪裡投資?而相同的邏輯,因此通常內行的人會容易很多。 

Nicholas: [00:21:48] Let [00:21:50] me add on a bit. Even for Malaysians as well, a lot of Malaysians will be investing in the wrong projects.

Nicolas:[00:21:48]讓我再說[00:21:50]。即使對於馬來西亞人來說,很多馬來西亞人也會在錯誤的項目上進行投資。 

[00:22:00] I know for one project that when they started selling they were selling it for $800 to $900,000 ringgit landed property right. And everybody’s

[00:22:00]我知道一個項目,當他們開始出售時,他們以80到90萬令吉的價錢出售樓盤。每個人的 

 [00:22:10] net give up on first day, the first month, first launch, everything sold out the bought it for $800,000 ringgit. Upon

[00:22:10]網路在第一天,第一個月,首次發行時斷線了,所有的物業都以80萬令吉的價錢賣掉了。到 

[00:22:20] completion I believe there was two to three years ago if I remember correctly, it became a grade E, negative every month was $2500 to $3000 ringgit. When they sell now they

[00:22:20]樓盤完成時我相信是兩到三年前,如果我沒記錯的話,它就變成了E級,每個月的虧損是2500到3000令吉。他們現在賣的時候 

[00:22:30] are looking at $200,000 easily $200,000 to $300,000 loss. So, is that a good investment? The answer is I would say the answer is no in terms of my

[00:22:30]損失是200,000令吉,在200,000到300,000令吉之間的損失。那麼,這是一筆好投資嗎?答案是我會說,就我而言,根據我的標準,答案是不是的。 

[00:22:40] criteria. So what happened is that they actually went against everything the criteria stand for. Is there commercial vibrancy. The answer is no. Is there actually

[00:22:40]因此,發生的事情是他們實際上違反了標準所代表的一切。有商業活力嗎?沒有。真的有

[00:22:50] international schools? No. Is there expat community? No. So a lot of times Malaysians tend to buy properties thinking that they are investors but once they put into the grading system, once they put it into the criteria it becomes totally very, very clear to the investor that they will lose money. But there’s a caveat to it, the criteria for local investors

[00:22:50]國際學校嗎?沒有。有外籍人士社區嗎?沒有。所以很多時候,馬來西亞人傾向於以認為自己是以投資者的身份來購買物業,但是一旦他們進入評級體系,一旦將其納入標準,他們就會非常非常清楚地知道他們會賠錢。但有一個警告,當地投資者的標準 

[00:23:00] and criteria for foreign investors will be [00:23:10] different.

[00:23:00]和外國投資者的標準是有所不同[00:23:10]。 

[00:23:13]Darren Wong: [00:23:13] I see. Okay. Well, I mean, the local one I’m sure we can do a part two in the future if there’s so many gems, there’s so many questions that

Darren Wong:[00:23:13]我明白了。好的。好吧,我的意思是,對於當地房地產投資我們可以之後再開一集來討論。我們有很多問題

[00:23:20] we’re not even halfway yet. So, obviously on behalf of the audience, thanks so much for teaching us how to do it because it means a lot and then so you know, like obviously, right now, the COVID-19 you know,

[00:23:20]我們還沒完成一半。所以,顯然地,代表聽眾,非常感謝你教給我們如何該如何投資。因為這對我們來說意義重大,因為你知道,就像現在,顯然,你知道新冠肺炎,

[00:23:30] like the whole world has had impact from. So, I just want to know, right, with COVID-19 at this moment in time, where do you think we are in the cycle

[00:23:30]對全世界都產生了影響。所以,我想知道,在新冠肺炎肆虐的這個時刻,你認為我們處於房地產市場週期中的什麼位置?

[00:23:40] of the real estate market and then what kind of area and type of investments should oversea investors consider more?

[00:23:40]那麼海外投資者又該考慮什麼樣的地區和類型的投資呢? 

[00:23:47]Nicholas: [00:23:47] Okay. You will have to go [00:23:50] over to slide number four. Okay. So at slide number four, you can actually see the recession in 2009. And what is

[00:23:47]Nicolas:[00:23:47]好的。請[00:23:50]滑到第四張投影片。好的。所以,在第四張投影片上,你可以看到2009年的經濟衰退。 

[00:24:00] happening in 2020. So I’m bragging. The reason why I’m bragging is because Malaysia navigated COVID-19 perfectly. I say that because our

[00:24:00] 我之所以在誇耀是因為馬來西亞完美地處理了新冠肺炎。 

[00:24:10] government did a fantastic job containing COVID-19. They did a fantastic job in the stimulus package so that our economy, even though it’s going through a recession, we

[00:24:10] 政府在處理新冠肺炎方面做得非常出色。他們在刺激經濟的計劃中做得非常出色,因此即使經濟處於衰退之中,我們的經濟 

[00:24:20] will come back up faster, we will come back up stronger. If you look at number one, right, the statue reserved for the banks, we need the cash to be saved right is at 1%

[00:24:20]會更快恢復,我們會變得更強大。如果你看第一點,對,這是銀行的存款準備金,我們需要那些現金保留在1% 

[00:24:30] while in 2020, we have more cash, right? OBR at that particular time he said 2% are right now he said at this but this one was done quite some time was a

[00:24:30]而到2020年,我們會有更多現金,對吧?OBR在那個特定的時間說2%就是現在他說的這個,但是這個我們已經做了一段很長時間了 

[00:24:40] 2.5%. We have actually reduced the rate even further, right. In 2009. Over 30 billion stimulus was actually announced. Well, this year due to COVID-19, we announced over 200 and

[00:24:40] 2.5%。實際上,我們實際上已進一步降低了利率。在2009年。實際上宣布了超過300億元的刺激方案。好吧,由於新冠肺炎,今年我們宣布了二千

 [00:24:50] 50 billion stimulus packages. In 2009 that was during the financial crisis, right? There’s no moratorium, so everybody still has to

[00:24:50] 五百億元的刺激方案。在2009年的刺激方案是因為金融危機,對吧?那時沒有遲延償還期,所以每個人仍然必須 

[00:25:00] pay their loan. In 2020, there’s automatic load monitoring, which for the next four for six months, we don’t have to pay for our loan, meaning we’ve got cash in hand. So that

[00:25:00]償還貸款。在2020年,有自動貸款監控,在接下來的四到六個月,我們無需償還貸款,這意味著我們手頭有現金。以便 

[00:25:10] actually saves a lot of people from defaulting in the loop. So what happened after 2009? Right? So this is actually what

[00:25:10]實際上使很多人免於違約。那麼,2009年之後發生了什麼?實際上是 

[00:25:20] happened. So in terms of COVID, in terms of the financial crisis right, what actually happened is that it takes a lot of other

[00:25:20]發生這些。所以,就新冠肺炎而言,就金融危機而言,實際上發生的事情是 

[00:25:30] dominoes in the market before a property bull run happens. So for capital, right, we take this opportunity COVID-19 to actually buy a lot of properties.

[00:25:30]在房地產牛市發生之前,需要觸發很多骨牌效應。因此,對於資本而言,我們藉新冠肺炎這個機會來買入很多物業。 

[00:25:40] The reason why is because we see in the next 12 to 24 months, we will have a property bull run. Property bull run in Malaysia typically will happen

[00:25:40]原因是因為在接下來的12到24個月內,將出現房地產牛市。馬來西亞的房地產牛市通常會發生 

[00:25:50] after four dominoes fall. And what happens is that the property prices tend to double right, so I’m going to go on to slide

[00:25:50]在四個骨牌效應後。會發生的事情是房地產價格會趨向翻倍,所以我將繼續講下去

[00:26:00] number seven. Slide number seven is what I call the four horsemen.

[00:26:00]第七張。第七張投影是我所說的四名騎士。 

[00:26:06]Darren: [00:26:06] Wait, I’m sorry if we could stop a little bit. For the SRR, [00:26:10] OPR, what do they mean?

Darren:[00:26:06]等一下,對不起,如果我們能停下來一點。什麼是SRR [00:26:10] 和OPR? 

[00:26:12]Nicholas: [00:26:12] The SRR is actually the reserve that the banks will need to have.

[00:26:12]Nicolas:[00:26:12] SRR(Statutory Reserve Requirement)實際上是銀行需要擁有的法定存款準備金率。 

[00:26:20] In 2009 what happened is that they’ve got less of the cash, more subject to external shocks or pressure. While right now we’ve got a better banking system,

[00:26:20]在2009年,發生的事情是他們的現金更少了,更多地受到了外部衝擊或壓力。雖然目前我們有一個更好的銀行系統, 

[00:26:30] we have got a stronger bank right? OPR is our overnight policy rate where that is where our interest rate is benchmarked against. So in 2009, what happens that is actually do 2% in 2020,

[00:26:30]我們擁有更強大的銀行。OPR(overnight policy rate)是我們的隔夜政策利率,並以此作為基準利率。因此,在2009年,發生的情況實際上是2020年的2%, 

[00:26:40] or just for the 2.5 you have to change it. I’ll be changing it to two. We’re

[00:26:40]或僅需更改2.5。我將其更改為2%。我們是 

[00:26:50] actually the lowest since America, since our independence day. This year. Our OPR is the lowest. So in terms of buying property, you have got the lowest

[00:26:50]實際上是自我們獨立日以來,自美國以來的最低水平。今年。我們的OPR最低。因此,就置業而言,你擁有最低的 

[00:27:00] interest meaning your repayment every month is actually much, much lower. Here’s the reason why a lot of people, if they see the opportunity, this is the year that they will buy.

[00:27:00]利息意味著你每月的還款額實際上低得多。這就是為什麼很多人(如果他們看到機會)將在今年置業的原因。 

[00:27:09]Darren: [00:27:09] I see. [00:27:10] So go back to four horsemen, right. That’s interesting. So would you mind elaborating on the four horsemen slide a bit more.

[00:27:09]Darren:[00:27:09]我明白了。[00:27:10]所以,回到四名騎士那裡。那很有意思。因此,你介意詳細介紹一下四名騎士嗎? 

[00:27:17]Nicholas: [00:27:17] So what happens Darren, [00:27:20] if you look at historical data, right time, there’s a property bull run, the property bull run happened in 2010, all the way up to

Nicolas:[00:27:17]所以Darren,是這樣的,[00:27:20]如果你查看歷史數據,時間,有一場房地產牛市,那場房地產牛市發生在2010年,直到 

[00:27:30] 2013. That’s where the prices property prices, double, double, double, you need to queue up to buy property right. Before that happened, there’s actually four triggers or the four horsemen that we call

[00:27:30]2013年。那幾年房地產價格在翻倍,翻倍,翻倍,翻倍,你需要排隊置業。在此之前,我們實際上有四個觸發器或四名騎士 

[00:27:40] that right. The first one is actually OPR cut. OPR cut meaning the interest rate being cut. So the government at that particular time cut the OPR

[00:27:40]第一個實際上是OPR的削減。OPR下調意味著降息。因此,政府在特定時間削減了OPR 

 [00:27:50] rate. Very, very similar to what is currently happening in 2020. Right, so number two, they made it very, very easy to

[00:27:50]非常非常類似於2020年發生的事情。對,所以第二,他們使大家非常非常容易 

 [00:28:00] buy properties. At that particular time in 2009, it was something called a DIBS developer interest bearing scheme, meaning during construction, you don’t have to pay anything,

[00:28:00]購買物業。在2009年的那個時間,這就是所謂的DIBS,這意味著在施工期間,你無需支付任何費用, 

 [00:28:10] you only start paying upon completion of the property, right? In Malaysia, I’ll give you a context in Malaysia, if you buy a property during construction, you need to service your loan, you need to pay a certain amount

[00:28:10]你只在物業完成後才開始付款。在馬來西亞,我會給你一個在馬來西亞的情況,如果你在建設期間購買物業,則需要償還貸款,需要支付一定金額 

[00:28:20] for the interest right? At that particular time the developer pay for your interest, you only pay full amount upon completion. This year, and last

[00:28:20]的利息。在那個的時間,開發商支付你的利息,你只需要在完成時支付全額費用即可。今年和去年,

[00:28:30] year 2018. The government came up with HOC policy, which is called the home ownership campaign right, which is to ease people, especially Malaysians to actually buy property.

[00:28:30] 2018年。政府提出了HOC政策,也就是擁屋計劃,目的是讓人們(尤其是馬來西亞人)實際地購買物業。 

[00:28:40] The third one is the mega infrastructure launch. Every time the government started a mega infrastructure and that in 2009, as well, where all the high rise are being [00:28:50] built. You’ll see this happening, right now we’re actually seeing it the same. You’ve got your LRPs. You’ve got your you’ve got your LRT bill, your MRT too, you’ve got your HSR.

[00:28:40]第三個是大型基礎設施的啟動。每次政府啟動大型基礎設施時,以及在2009年,所有高樓大廈都在[00:28:50]那時建成。你會看到這種情況的發生,現在我們實際上已經看到了同樣的情況,有LRP。有輕軌,地鐵和高鐵。 

[00:29:00] You’ve got your ECRL being built this year, and those are the money that has been poured into the infrastructure. The last one, the last one,

[00:29:00]今年也會興建東海岸銜接鐵道,這些錢已經投入到基礎設施中。最後一個是

 [00:29:10] that is the key catalyst or spot market to a property bull is actually the stock market bull run. So what happens to Malaysians, I’m not sure

[00:29:10]房地產牛市的關鍵催化劑或現貨市場實際上是股市牛市。那會對馬來西亞人有影響,關於香港 

[00:29:20] about Hong Kong, Malaysians tend to gamble more on the stock market, they make a lot of money from the stock market the profit from that they buy property. So, if you look

[00:29:20] 我不確定,因為馬來西亞人傾向於在股市上冒險,他們在股市中賺很多錢,然後把那些利息購入物業。所以,如果你看 

[00:29:30] into right now, if you look at the Malaysian stock market, especially the glyph counters, everybody doubled and tripled. I’ll give you an example, Supermax a glove maker

[00:29:30]現在的情況,如果你看一下馬來西亞的股票市場,尤其是字形計數器,每個人都翻了一倍到三倍。我舉一個例子,知名的手套製造商Supermax 

[00:29:40] fourth biggest in Malaysia right, went from $1.52 all the way up to $15 ringgit, meaning 100,000 invested there,

[00:29:40]是馬來西亞第四大的手套製造商,它的股價從1.52令吉一路攀升至15令吉,這意味著在短短四個月內, 

[00:29:50] in a short period of four months became one hundred thousand invested, it became 1 million. So you’ve seen that it is a crazy stock market bull run

[00:29:50] 就有10萬令吉投資於它,再變成了一百萬。所以你已經看到今年會有瘋狂的牛市發生 。

[00:30:00] happening this year. So when will the property bull run happen? It will happen in next 12 to 24 months.

[00:30:00]那麼何時會有房地產牛市呢?它將在接下來的12到24個月內發生。 

[00:30:08]Darren: [00:30:08] I see. No, I [00:30:10] think Hong Kong has a similar kind of mindset because a lot of people here, like, you know, they play stock because they don’t have enough money yet. And once they get enough money, they go to the real estate market. So the world

[00:30:08]Darren:[00:30:08]我明白了。我[00:30:10]我認為香港也有類似的心態,因為這裡的很多人都喜歡玩股票,因為他們還沒有足夠的錢。一旦他們有足夠的錢,他們就會去房地產市場。所以這個

[00:30:20] trend is very similar. And I think that it’s not only about Hong Kong, you know, Hong Kong is one of the biggest stock markets kind of in the world trading. But this is very similar on that regard. And by the way, what you

[00:30:20]趨勢非常相似。我認為,這不僅與香港有關,香港是世界上最大的股票交易市場之一。但這在這方面非常相似。順便說一句,你 

[00:30:30] have explained to the audience is very useful. It’s something that like, I’m sure, like, even for myself just by reading through your slides, I learned so much from it. So thank you so much on that,

[00:30:30]對聽眾的講解很有用。我敢肯定,即使對於我自己來說,光是看你的投影片,就令我獲益良多。所以非常感謝你。 

[00:30:40] too. So you know, like I said before, right, I talked to Amos and other people that are from Malaysia as a guest, we can go on hours and hours. And I think that is very, very good insight. And I’m sure people will

你知道,我之前也提到,我邀請過來自馬來西亞的Amos和馬來西亞的嘉賓上來,我們一直談下去。而我認為這是非常非常好的見解。而且我相信人們會 

[00:30:50] reach out to you to want to talk more about it. And there’s just only a couple more questions that I have. For example, right, what other tips do you have to summarize everything for the audience to take away

[00:30:50]想與你聯繫,以便再作深入的了解。我只剩下幾個問題。例如,你還有其他哪些貼士來總結所有內容,令觀眾可以從中受益

[00:31:00] from, because I’m sure a lot of us have a lot of questions, a lot of ideas what to do next, if you have anything that you want to capsulate and kind of remind the audience on what to do.

[00:31:00]因為我敢肯定我們很多人都會有很多問題,有很多想法下一步該怎麼做,如果你有什麼想概括的內容,和提醒聽眾可以做些什麼。 

[00:31:12]Nicholas: [00:31:12] [00:31:10] So for your audience, right? If they’re buying property there’s a few things you need to do. Of course there are the five criterias right. You also need to look in the

[00:31:12]Nicolas:[00:31:12] [00:31:10]對你的聽眾來說,對吧?如果他們要置業的話,則需要做一些事情。當然,有那五個標準。你還需要查看 

[00:31:20] affordability of the market. So I’ll bring you all the way until slide 12. So slide

[00:31:20]市場的承受能力。因此,我將直接去到投影片12。 

[00:31:30] 12 is actually about the median household income by state. So I thank you for your question asking. If I’ve got money should I be investing in KL or should I be

[00:31:30] 12實際上是關於各州家庭收入的中位數。因此,感謝你提出的問題。如果我有錢,我應該在吉隆坡投資還是應該 

 [00:31:40] investing in Johor. Same price 1 million ringgit, 1 million yeah. If you look at Kuala Lumpur, right in 2019, their

[00:31:40]投資柔佛州呢?同樣的價格100萬令吉,是100萬。如果你看一下吉隆坡,就在2019年,他們的 

[00:31:50] median household income is actually at $10,000 ringgit, above $10,000 ringgit so to pay for a million ringgit condo for them. It is actually quite reasonable.

[00:31:50]家庭收入中位數實際上是$ 10,000令吉,高於$ 10,000令吉,因此要他們為公寓公支付一百萬令吉。這實際上是很合理的。 

[00:32:00] Achievable. But if you go all the way to down to Johor, then you can actually see that their income level is actually hovering at $6000 ringgit. So, I mean, your viewers and myself and yourself must agree right.

[00:32:00]是可以實現的。但是,如果在柔佛州,那麼你實際上可以看到他們的收入水平實際上徘徊在6000令吉。所以我的意思是,你的觀眾以及我自己和你自己都必須同意

[00:32:10] If you’re earning $6000 ringgit, you cannot pay $5000 ringgit for installment, right, The leftover $1000 you cannot eat. I mean, you have to pay for your food you have to pay for internet and whatnot. Let’s be honest,

[00:32:10]如果你的收入為$ 6000令吉,則無法支付$ 5000令吉的分期付款,對吧,剩下的$1000無法負擔你的支出。我的意思是,你必須應付你的日常開銷。說實話, 

[00:32:20] you cannot survive it. So hence, where I’m coming from is that you need to understand what’s the median

[00:32:20]不然,你無法生存。因此,你需要了解每個州的 

[00:32:30] income of each state. And then to see whether the property that you’re buying, can it be sustained by the local market.

[00:32:30] 平均收入是多少。然後查看你所購買的房產是否可以由當地市場維持。 

[00:32:40] So going back to the fourth part, the fourth criteria, if anything would happen, if you want to move to Singapore, if you want to move to back to Hong Kong, right, can you actually rent it out? So there’s

[00:32:40]回到第四部分,第四標準,如果有任何事情發生,如果你想搬到新加坡,如果你想搬回香港,對,你可以實際租出它嗎?所以有 

[00:32:50] only so many expats who can rent it out. You need to make sure that, you know, if expats fail, can you actually rent it up to the local market, which of course, logically speaking, there’s a bigger

[00:32:50]只有一部分的外國人可以把物業租出去。你需要確保,如果不能租出給外國人,你是否可以將其當地市場在出租,當然,從邏輯上講, 

[00:33:00] pool of market right? So focus on those things and always focus on the five criterias, always focus on these particular household income, and you’d be quite safe. Now

[00:33:00]這裡有更多的市場對吧?因此,專注於這些事情,並且始終專注於那五個標準,始終關注這些特定的家庭收入,你將非常安全。現在 

[00:33:10] the prediction that we’re having right to do to sum it all up – that will be page 10. You will look at interest

[00:33:10]我們對所有內容進行總結在第10頁。你會看到利率

[00:33:20] rate, we are actually having the lowest interest rate right now, as of today, the lowest interest rate for the past since our independence day, right? We’re expecting one more round to be

[00:33:20]實際上我們現在的利率最低,到今天為止,是自獨立日以來的最低利率,對吧?我們希望再進行一輪 

[00:33:30] cut. Anything that you buy, net price, yeah, anything that you buy that is below $600,000 with a 4% rental yield will be the best performer.

[00:33:30]縮減。是的,你所購買的任何物業(淨價格),如果你購買的物業價格低於600,000令吉且租金收益率為4%,都是表現最佳的。 

[00:33:40] So your SBA could be 1 million ringgit, but try to get something with a 40% discount if you could. All properties in Malaysia will be under pressure, always by new.

[00:33:40]因此,你的SBA可能是100萬令吉,但如果可以的話,請嘗試以六折的價格買入。馬來西亞的所有地產都會承受壓力,總是會受到壓力。 

[00:33:50] More infrastructure is coming. So I’ve just given you the four horsemen right, focus on the infrastructure, focus on where the infrastructure is, when is it being completed and you will see the bull run

[00:33:50]更多基礎設施即將到來。所以我講了四名騎士,分別是專注於基礎設施,專注於基礎設施的位置,何時完成,你將看到牛市 

[00:34:00] coming. MRO basically what it says that this page 11 MRO is basically saying that multiple rental options, don’t just focus on the expat tenant. Of course, having the

[00:34:00]的到來。MRO基本上在說的是,第11頁MRO基本上是說有多種租賃選擇,而不僅僅是關注外籍租戶。當然, 

[00:34:10] expat tenant is great, but also focus on the local market as well. That’s where the median income for each state is happening. You’re gonna see a lot of developers under pressure.

[00:34:10]有外籍租戶很棒,但也要關注本地市場。那就是每個州發生收入中位數的地方。您將看到很多開發商面臨壓力。 

[00:34:20] That’s nice for your investors. Identify this kind of projects, make sure that these developers have got the capability to finish

[00:34:20]這對你的投資者來說很好。找到這類項目,確保這些開發商具有完成興建的能力 

[00:34:30] building it and then you’re going to get a good deal. The last one is actually, myself we’ll – we’re going to get a lot of people hating us for sharing all this information, but I guess it from

[00:34:30]然後你會得到一個好的成交。最後一個實際上是我自己,我們會-很多人討厭我們分享這些信息,但是我想 

[00:34:40] that point of views that your viewers as long as they follow, they use the five criteria, they will not lose money.

[00:34:40]只要你的觀眾遵循以下觀點,使用這五個標準,就不會虧本。 

[00:34:47]Darren: [00:34:47] Yeah. Yeah, that’s [00:34:50] great because like, I know that a lot of people in the real estate sector they try really hard to sometimes like please everyone and try not to say too much unless it’s like off the record,

Darren:[00:34:47]是的。是的,這是[00:34:50]很棒,因為我知道,房地產行業的許多人有時會非常努力地嘗試討好所有人,並儘量不要多說,除非是私底下

[00:35:00] but I believe that like, I think it’s time to really democratize and help people more about these things, because otherwise the industry will never improve and progress further, you know?

[00:35:00]但是我相信,現在是時候真正實現民主化並幫助人們更多地了解這些事情了,因為否則,該行業將永遠無法改善並進一步發展。

[00:35:10] So I really appreciate what you’re doing here. I really do. And what’s something that you and your firm have been working on recently? Because right now with COVID-19, I’m

[00:35:10]因此,我非常感謝你在這裡所做的事情。真的。 所以你和你的公司最近在做什麼?因為新冠肺炎的關係,我

[00:35:20] sure you guys are buying more and more properties, like what other things are you working on at the moment?

[00:35:20]肯定你們正在買入越來越多的房地產,你還有在進行什麼其他項目嗎? 

[00:35:25]Nicholas: [00:35:25] We are actually only working on buying properties. To be fair,

[00:35:25]Nicolas:[00:35:25]我們實際上只是在購買房地產。公平地說, 

[00:35:30] right now, the deals are coming in fast, they are good deals, we are always looking for good properties. So long as they meet our grading criteria, we will be buying it.

[00:35:30]現在,有很多交易進來,它們是很好的交易,我們一直在尋找優質的房地產。只要他們符合我們的評分標準,我們就會購買。 

[00:35:40] We are currently just focusing on buying right now to be honest, because if you look at a market rate, the lowest would be us, I don’t think they’re going to go any lower. It

[00:35:40]坦白地說,我們目前正專注於買入物業,因為如果你以市場價格來看,最低的就是我們,我認為它們不會繼續下跌。它 

[00:35:50] can only go up from this year onwards, and this is probably the best time for local, for foreign investors to actually buy something in Malaysia. So for us,

[00:35:50]從今年開始只能上漲,這可能是本地投資者和外國投資者在馬來西亞置業的最佳時機。所以對我們來說 

[00:36:00] we are actively hunting; our predominant focus right now is to buy as much as we can. So we are not focusing on any other things besides buying right

[00:36:00]我們正在積極尋找;我們目前的主要重點是盡可能多的買入物業。因此,除了買入物業以外,我們不專注於其他任何事情 

[00:36:10] now. So thank you to COVID-19 in the sense that you know, it actually allows developers to drop, giving them more pressure and allowing them to drop the

[00:36:10]因此,在某種意義上,我要感謝新冠肺炎,它實際上使開發商下調價格,給他們更大的壓力,並允許他們進一步去

[00:36:20] prices even further. So from my firm, for my clients, they are buying things that are up to 30 to 40%. discount. And for your investors,

[00:36:20]降價。因此,對於我的客戶來說,對我的公司,他們所購買的物業最多有30%到40%。折扣。對於你的投資者 

[00:36:30] right, I’m going to share this we are buying something that is actually in the middle of Mount Keira which is expat hub, you’ve got to Koreans, the Japanese, the

[00:36:30]我要分享的是,我們要購買的物業實際上位於滿家好(Mont Keira)的中間,這是外國人集中地,韓國人,日本人, 

[00:36:40] Americans, the Europeans, the Hong Kong, all of them are staying there and you’re buying something that will actually make you money, at least $500

[00:36:40]美國人,歐洲人,香港人都呆在那裡,而你購買的物業實際上是可以使你賺錢,每月至少有500令吉

[00:36:50] ringgit per month in terms of cash flow. But of course those are only for my investors right.

[00:36:50]的現金流。但是,這些當然只給我的投資者。 

[00:36:55]Darren: [00:36:55] No I get it, I get it. I really think that like we should do more of these

Darren:[00:36:55]我明白了。我真的認為我們應該做更多這樣的事情 

[00:37:00] because there’s so many questions I have, but I will reserve it for next time because like they’re questions for example, right I was thinking about the culture of what’s going on, with the wealth for example, I know a

[00:37:00]因為我有很多問題,但是我會留在下一次才問,因為是像這樣的問題,例如,我在想是關於文化上的問題,例如,財富,我知道 

[00:37:10] lot of Malaysia as a country is getting a lot wealthier, what’s going to happen? What’s your prediction in years now? And then we can reserve that for next time because there’s so many things and obviously like

[00:37:10]馬來西亞作為一個國家,正在變得越來越富裕,將會發生什麼?你對未來幾年來的預測是什麼?然後我們可以留待下一次才回答,因為有很多東西,顯然 

[00:37:20] I’m sure the audience will want to ask you more questions. So like, what are some ways that you suggest the audience reach out to you? Through emails or LinkedIn or is there a way to find you [00:37:30] to talk to you more about this kind of stuff?

[00:37:20]我確定觀眾會想問你更多問題。如此,你建議觀眾通過哪些方式與你聯繫?通過電子郵件或LinkedIn,是否可以找到你[00:37:30]與你更多地談論這種事情? 

[00:37:33]Nicholas: [00:37:33] I think you can send me an email. They can also WhatsApp me. I am faster in WhatsApp. They can also Facebook me. I

[00:37:33]Nicolas:[00:37:33]我想你可以給我發送電子郵件。他們也可以使用WhatsApp。我在WhatsApp中回答更快。他們也可以在臉書上找我。

[00:37:40] will be faster in WhatsApp and Facebook. I will check my emails

[00:37:40]我在WhatsApp和Facebook中會更快地回答。我每天會檢查我的電子郵件一次 

[00:37:50] once a day so do expect delays. But if you want a faster response, you want to understand more about whatever, just WhatsApp me. I’ll pass you my number and also my [00:38:00] email and also my facebook.

[00:37:50]所以要預計會有延遲。但是,如果你想要更快的回應,或是想了解更多,請whatsapp我。我會把我的電話號碼和[00:38:00]電子郵件以及我的facebook給您。 

[00:38:01]Darren: [00:38:01] Yeah, so I’ll have everything in the show notes, and the slide you have to offer and the property grading template as well to make sure everyone knows where they can

[00:38:01]Darren:[00:38:01]是的,所以我會資訊欄中提供這些資訊,以及你提供的投影片和物業分級模板,以確保每個人都知道他們可以在哪裡 

[00:38:10] find them. And I just want to say, because this is like 30 minutes, I don’t think it’s really enough. But thanks so much for your time. And then I’m really looking forward to round two, and then I really

[00:38:10]找到它們。我想說,因為這只有30分鐘,我認為這並不足夠。但是,非常感謝你的寶貴時間。然後我真的很期待下次的見面,然後我真的 

[00:38:20] appreciate the time that you happen to give, and the thoughts that come into preparing everything we have.

[00:38:20]感謝你付出的時間,以及準備的一切。 

[00:38:24]Nicholas: [00:38:24] No problem. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:38:24]Nicolas:[00:38:24]沒問題。謝謝。謝謝你邀請我。 

[00:38:26]Darren: [00:38:26] Yeah, thank you and then talk to you next time then. Thank you.

Darren:[00:38:26]是的,謝謝,然後下次再見。謝謝。 

[00:38:30]Nicholas: [00:38:30] [00:38:30] Alright.

Nicolas:[00:38:30] [00:38:30]好的。 

[00:38:32]Darren: [00:38:32] Good day. Bye.

]Darren:[00:38:32]祝你有個美好的一天。再見 。

[00:38:33]Nicholas: [00:38:33] Bye.

Nicolas:[00:38:33]再見。 

Nicholas: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Darren Wong: Yeah, so to give the audience a bit of a background, we had a show with Amos I think we launched about a couple of weeks ago and it got pretty popular. And then a lot of people told me that they’re actually thinking about Malaysia real estate markets. And then Amos was like, you’re someone that like in the whole market, people know who you are, and you could do a good job. So I’m pretty happy to have you here. And because it’s not only learning about Malaysia market it’s about how to be a better investor. So again, thanks for coming in and it’s gonna be a blast, yeah. So for the audience who may not know who you are, would you mind telling the audience about yourself and the company you work for?

Nicholas: My name is Nicholas How. I’m the head of sales for FAR Capital. So for FAR Capital, what we do is that we are actually the biggest buyers right now in Malaysia. Last year, we transacted approximately around 1.8 billion all the way up until this year. So for the past 18 months we are arguably the biggest private buyer right now in Malaysia. So, why we’re doing this is because number one, we see a lot of investors, foreigners or Malaysians, what they do is they invest without really understanding the fundamentals of our property investment. So from my experience out of 100 properties 97 of them will not make you money, it is only like three of them that will actually make you money. So, our objective, our vision for the company is to actually increase the knowledge of property investment, increase their investors’ knowledge so that they can actually make money. So as an investor, and the only thing that you want to do is make money, right, so we want to, we want to mitigate that, the people that are losing money. That’s the main objective.

Darren: I see. Yeah, I think when we had a call, I think a month ago, and the call was actually really good because it obviously tells how much you care about this. And there’s one thing you measure right away it’s price, price, price, not location, location, location. Would you mind elaborating that to the audience? Because I think when you shared some insight about the Malaysia market and how things are, I was kind of shocked, I never heard of that before. So would you mind elaborating that further?

Nicholas: Alright, so I think everyone heard about this, the mentra calling location, location, location. I think it went all the way until Hong Kong. It has been prevalent in Malaysia. But from research or from the deepest point of view, when you look at it right, location actually doesn’t play that important of a role. I’ll give you an example. KLCC, majority of the Hong Kong viewers, your Hong Kong viewers would know where KLCC is right? They’ve got the best location in terms of location wise, they’re the best. You’ve got your LRT station, you’ve got your shopping, one of the best shopping malls, you’ve got Grade A offices, you’ve got hotels, so in terms of location, there’s no place primer compared to KLCC. So that is like the financial center of KL. Yeah, or the oil and gas center of KL, right. But if you invested in KLCC 12 years ago, right versus a suburban area called Puchong. There’s a suburban area in Puchong, if you invested 12 years ago, in KLCC, you would not have made any money. In fact, you might have lost money compared to you investing in Puchong, the suburban area, you would have easily doubled what you have, right? So for me personally, it is never about location. It is always about the price that you bought into. So it could be one of the not so pride area like Puchong, but if you have bought it cheap enough, over the long run, the property price has got a higher tendency to increase or double versus paying a premium price for a premium location and it would just be stagnant. So for me, for the viewers, for everyone else that is listening location, location location is important, but not as important as understanding the price that you’re paying. Not as important as understanding the median price that you’re paying. So from their point of view, so just to give a context to your viewers right, when they are coming to Malaysia, the first place that they’re looking at will always be KLCC. So that is how the agents has framed them. That’s how the real estate agency in Malaysia has brought them over. But what they do not understand is that in the KLCC, median price, anything you pick above 1500 ringgit, you will not make money. So you understand median price, first and foremost, you understand the median of that area, and then you understand whether you’re buying below median, or above median, anything that you buy below median, you have got a higher chance of making money. And if you’re buying above median, that’s where you have a higher chance of losing money.

Darren Wong: So you know, that’s something that’s interesting, because that’s the point you mentioned before over the call. And I was kind of shocked. I never thought that way. So in that regard what are some things that the audience can do to mitigate that because it sounds like a very gray area, like there are assets that you have to buy, certain price points, but then that is a gray area because not many people can afford it, for example, in this case, right, how would we mitigate it?

Nicholas: So how we mitigate it is that I’m going to be sharing my screen if you don’t mind.

Darren Wong: Sure go ahead, yeah.

Nicholas: There are actually a few criterias for your investors or for your viewers alright. So there are actually a few criterias that you need to be aware of. I’m going to share with you this – actually quite a simple investment criteria. There’s only five. So let me share my screen…I can’t share screen. 

Darren Wong :Okay so what I can do is you can tell me which slide and then I can put that on our videos. 

Nicholas: Alright so this is actually slide number five, alright? So slide number five, you can actually see there’s a five investment criteria for your particular viewers. So what happens is this number one, if you’re looking at buying into Malaysia, the first thing you need to look into is the international expat community. So as a Hong Kong buyer, the first thing you need to understand is that you must look into the expat community. That’s where the Hong Kong people are. That’s where they spend their days there. That’s where they buy their property, that’s where they send their kids to school. That’s where they buy their groceries. You need to have this kind of support system in place. First things first, you need to get that support system in place for you to have a very meaningful stay in Malaysia, right? There’s no point for you buying in a place even though the building might be great, but you’ve got no support system. So always focus on the international expat community. These people have been in Malaysia for the past 10-15 years. They know for a fact that whether the property that they bought is actually a good one or a bad one, right. Number two, always focus on the international schools. Now I’m gonna take a step into KLCC right. There’s a reason why the rich people in Malaysia, right, or the rich people who are the experts don’t particularly choose KLCC, if they’ve got a family it’s because the lack of international schools in KLCC, right? So if you are single, the likelihood of you choosing KLCC is quite high, because, you know, you’d want to stay there, there’s got a nightlife, that et cetera, et cetera. But if you’ve got a family, you’ve got a wife, two kids and a dog, right? You don’t want to choose KLCC, because there’s a lack of international schools, or you need to drive two hours, to and for approximately, two hours to just to send your kids to school and go back to your office, right? So always focus on international schools, you need to have that if you’re looking to stay here longer. The third one is actually the commercial vibrancy, and also the first class infrastructure. You don’t want to stay in a place where there’s not even a proper mall, right? So you’ve got to always look for something with a proper mall, with a proper grocer that you can do your shopping in and your first class infrastructure meaning your highways, alright. So all these things contribute to a better living standard, if you’re planning to stay here, or you’re planning to invest here, because you see, once you buy into Malaysia, the dream or the bargain is to actually rent it out to expats. Right? The expats will always look into these criterias first and foremost, so the chances of you getting an expat tenant is much higher if you follow the criteria, right? So number four, you always have a plan B, right? So I know it’s gonna be very, very hard for your viewers to identify the median price because it takes local knowledge of local capabilities to identify the median price of the area, and then use the property to benchmark against the median price of the area. So you need the local knowledge, right? So it’s actually quite rather simple if it’s for your own viewers. You always have a plan B. Now, what Plan B means is this. A lot of people are agents in the approach you, they’ll say hey, you’re buying for own stay so it doesn’t matter. As long as you like it, buy, you can afford, buy. that is not a good idea or a good strategy. The reason why is because what if you want to move back to Hong Kong after 5 to 10 years? What if you want to move back? Right? What if you want to move to Singapore? Right? People need change, people want change, right? So having a plan B makes sure that you number one, first and foremost, you don’t lose money, right? So always look for properties that will give you a 4% rental yield. So now, why do I say that is that if you look at the median price of a median price of KLCC, and you take any properties in KLCC, take the rental, the average rental on that area, divided up by your purchase price, you can actually see you can roughly know whether you’re hitting the 4% or not. So always focus on the properties that will give you the 4% and if you can hit the 4% rental you’re relatively safe, you’re at least on median, right? So number five, always remember never pay foreigner price. Now this is an insight to your viewers. This is an insight to your investors that a lot of people dare not say out loud. I’m gonna make a lot of enemies right here to say this but I will say it out. A lot of times these projects that are brought over to Hong Kong are all the “leftover” – meaning we cannot sell, Malaysians don’t want to buy; I’ve exhausted every opportunity, every avenue to sell to Malaysians, I cannot sell. Now I bring it to Hong Kong hopefully, willingly taking in people who are most likely getting suckered into this. So they always have a foreigner price that they sell it to Hong Kong. The reason why is because even with the Malaysian price this price does not make sense to Malaysians. Even the Malaysians noble rich, Malaysians are rich. If you look at the Mount Kiera price versus the KLCC price, yeah actually more or less the same. Look at ttdi Obasanjo more or less the same, but the Malaysians will buy Mount Keira, the Malaysians will buy Bangsa, will buy ttdi and they will not buy overpriced, hyped up stuff, right or predominately KLCC. So those are the things that they are actually pushing out to foreigners, the leftovers that nobody wants. So focus on these five criterias you will most likely never make the wrong purchase focus on these five areas. That’s my advice to your buyers.

Darren Wong: Right that’s really good because there’s a couple of things you mentioned it’s something I think I told you before I used to be on the buy side. And then we always understood that if some deals are pushing foreigners from across the board, like across the ocean or something, there’s a really big foreigner price and it’s something that I hope that our product can bridge and the same that you can find direct channel, find direct expert in the location instead of paying a premium because there’s no point and then that 1% or 2% means a lot when it comes to real estate investing. So go back a little bit and obviously by the way, that was really good insight because it’s somebody that not only applies to Malaysia, it’s applied to many different cities it’s that, for example, you said before the tenant might be different maybe just because you’re single or like me, or living in the city, but if you think about putting yourself in the shoes on someone who’s a family, they might be something else. So I want to go back a little bit on the fourth point, right? When you say 4% rent, does that mean the gross or net?

Nicholas: It could be gross, right? To get 4% rental you are looking across, I’m not very familiar with the interest rate in Hong Kong. But in Malaysia right now, it’s actually less than 3%. The effective rate is 3.5, 3.4. You’re getting a 4% basically means that you’re covering everything that you have. So taking 4% is actually not a bad deal, especially if you’re a foreigner buying something here, right? So for me hitting that 4% is good enough for the foreigners. And just to add on to your point right saying that looking at agents or looking at, you know, experts or whatnot, right? My suggestion to your viewers, don’t believe any expert, any agent, anyone, just follow the five criteria, you can make your own decision really. So just like that, yeah, you have just broken the code of investing in Malaysia alright. So you don’t have to believe me, you don’t have to believe in whoever so long as you follow this criteria and say, “Hey, do I have an expat community here? Hey, do I have an international school here? Hey, do I have a you know, first class infrastructure, my commercial vibrancy is there? Can I get a 4% complete for me? Can I get a 4% and actually, am I paying a foreigner price here? What is everybody paying around here?” With these five criteria you will never go wrong with investing in property as a foreigner. 

Darren Wong: I see. Because I’m sure you’re aware, this show, this whole series is for foreigners to learn about the different markets and in this case, it’s the Malaysia properties right. So I have a two part question because a lot of people start rely on real estate platforms, right and then I know that in Malaysia there’s you know, Iproperty, Property Guru, Brickz, like already useful and what is something that people can rely on and at the same time what are somethings that they are not good at, you know you need that five criteria before to compensate. And another question is with these platforms or other ways, what are some ways that you suggest them to assess and search for the right properties?

Nicholas: Okay, so I’m gonna say the first tackle, the first question first, what’s the pros and cons right? I think each and every platform has got their own strengths. Use Brickz. Personally, I use Brickz, I use Brickz to identify the products that are transacted prices. Brickz, always has the transacted prices right. I use Brickz and then I go over to  Iproperty or PropertyGuru to actually double check on the listing price. So the reason why is because of this, there’s also practice in Malaysia, again, I’m gonna be making a lot of enemies here alright. Listing price is 1 million ringgit, meaning I’m asking from you Darren, I’m selling my property to you at 1 million ringgit. When I go over to Brickz and I look at the transacted price right, it becomes 2 million ringgit. So it’s illogical, right? I’m telling you, “Hey Darren, you want to buy my property a million ringgit?”, then you tell me, “No, I want to buy it for 2 million.” It doesn’t make sense, right. But this is what’s happening in Malaysia in some part of Malaysia, some part of games on peninsula some part of the projects right? Due to the fact that they want to mark up the transaction price, it’s a fake transaction. So they use this transaction to show to investors and say look, I’ve got a transaction price of 2 million, but in actual fact, the actual asking price is only a million ringgit. So for me, to your viewers what I would suggest is to use Brickz to identify the transaction price, once you identify which one then go over to Iproperty or PropertyGuru to identify those particular projects, give those agents the call to check, double check and triple check the numbers. Use that one. That’s to buy properties right. As for rental in itself in Iproperty and PropertyGuru, there’s a lot of rental being asked. So the rental let’s say for example is 3000. ringgit right? Transacted rental might be a bit lower, technically, from my experience, majority of them are a bit lower, call them to ask, not as, not as the renter, but as an owner, call the agents to ask them, “Hey, I’m an owner of this property. Can you tell me how much realistically can you rent it out?” The agents will tell you the truth, “Oh actually, you can only rent it out for $2500.” But I’ll put $3000 just in case they negotiate then we’ll bring it down. So use those platforms wisely. Use those platforms to identify the prices, the actual prices, I’m teaching you the insight trick of how to use it, and use it wisely. That’s how the second question apologies I actually missed the second question. 

Darren: Oh so I think you mentioned before, what suggestions do you have for the audience to assess and search for the right properties? 

Nicholas: Alright, look at again, go back to the five criteria. Once you identify the five criteria, you identify the area. Search via Property Guru or Iproperty or anyway search for those properties and identify those. For me, my suggestion to your viewers is use those search engines, you will find any and all type of properties, okay. It’s just that the caveat to it is that how do you then identify if this property is good or bad? So that’s the only caveat. So for me, I use Property Guru and Iproperty to search for properties. It is just that from there onwards, how do I then identify whether this one is good? Please bear in mind or remember the first rule, hard and first rule is that 97% of the properties in Malaysia won’t make money. So you need to, your audience needs to use the five criteria again to assess or identify that 3% of the properties.

Darren Wong: I see. So there’s something that you mentioned before it’s called the property grading template from you. Would you mind telling the audience like how they use it because I think you’re generous enough to tell us that, hey, there’s a place where you can download a link in the show notes and everything. Like Would you mind elaborating on what this is for and then how people can use it? 

Nicholas: Right. So I’m going to use this grading system that we at FAR Capital has used this grading system. Right. You have a grade A, B, C, D, and E. Right? 97% of them, the properties like the 97% will be grade C, D, and grade E. Now what does that mean?Grade E, I’m going to go for grade E, grade E is where you actually lose more than $100,000. If you purchase a property today, when you want to sell it five years later, five years later down the road. So you will be losing more than $100,000. So that’s one. Number two, in terms of cash flow, negative will be more than $600 all the way to $2000 ringgit. Every month, you’re losing money up until $2000 a year. And if you sell, you lose more than $100,000 ringgit. So there’s a huge loss, right? So that’s grade E. So there’s also a grade D. Where you’ve got no profit, even if you sell or you lost $50,000 ringgit when you sell. Negative every month up until $500 ringgit, so that’s grade D, right. Grade C is that you don’t lose, you don’t win when you sell. Your cash flow is break even every month, meaning your rental is just enough to cover in installments, plus your maintenance fee. So that’s grade C, 97% of the properties in Malaysia will fall into grade C, grade D and grade E. So what we are looking for in FAR capital there’s only grade A and grade B and which I hope from your audience’s as well they’re going to be using this template to look for properties as well. So grade B is where upon completion when you sell it, there’s minimum 10% upside. Cash flow is positive cash flow by $100 to $200.All right, grade a is where upon exit the property, when you sell the property, you’re making 20%. While cash flow will be positive more than $300 ringgit. So, we are focusing on Grade A and Grade B only. So, how do you then access capital appreciation and cash flow right? Again, you go back to the original template, the criteria that we have, the five criteria so as an foreign investor, there’s a lot of properties that you can’t be buying. Anything that is below 1 million ringgit in Kuala Lumpur you can’t buy; anything below 2 million ringgit in Salalah, you can’t buy. So you have to buy above 2 million you have to buy above a million. So you’re even more limited in terms of property that you’re purchasing. Understand this grading. Use this grading, and then you use those criteria. If you use those criteria, you’re most likely to hit either a Grade B or C. Will you be able to hit a grade A? The answer is yes, but you’re looking like a diamond in the rough. The whole of KL is hard. Mind you, I can only think of one project in the past two to years. Only one project that is suitable for foreign investors. 

Darren Wong  

Wow, that’s very, very crazy then. Wow. Wow, that’s a that’s a very, very crazy, then. You know, it’s very hard to find one but I’m sure if someone like you has the groundwork, has the potential, has all the knowledge and everything they can get that kind of opportunities because it’s hard for us I mean, like if today for example, if I’m not from Hong Kong, where would I know where to invest? And so same as the logic too so it’s often someone on the ground would be a lot easier. 

Nicholas: Let me add on a bit. Even for Malaysians as well, a lot of Malaysians will be investing in the wrong projects. I know for one project that when they started selling they were selling it for $800 to $900,000 ringgit landed property right. And everybody’s net gave up on the first day, the first month, first launch, everything sold out the bought it for $800,000 ringgit. Upon completion I believe there was two to three years ago if I remember correctly, it became a grade E, negative every month was $2500 to $3000 ringgit. When they sell now they are looking at $200,000 easily $200,000 to $300,000 loss. So, is that a good investment? The answer is I would say the answer is no in terms of my criteria. So what happened is that they actually went against everything the criteria stand for. Is there commercial vibrancy. The answer is no. Is there actually international schools? No. Is there expat community? No. So a lot of times Malaysians tend to buy properties thinking that they are investors but once they put into the grading system, once they put it into the criteria it becomes totally very, very clear to the investor that they will lose money. But there’s a caveat to it, the criteria for local investors and criteria for foreign investors will be different. 

Darren Wong: I see. Okay. Well, I mean, the local one I’m sure we can do a part two in the future if there’s so many gems, there’s so many questions that we’re not even halfway yet. So, obviously on behalf of the audience, thanks so much for teaching us how to do it because it means a lot and then so you know, like obviously, right now, the COVID-19 you know, like the whole world has had impact from. So, I just want to know, right, with COVID-19 at this moment in time, where do you think we are in the cycle of the real estate market and then what kind of area and type of investments should oversea investors consider more?

Nicholas: Okay. You will have to go over to slide number four. Okay. So at slide number four, you can actually see the recession in 2009. And what is happening in 2020. So I’m bragging. The reason why I’m bragging is because Malaysia navigated COVID-19 perfectly. I say that because our government did a fantastic job containing COVID-19. They did a fantastic job in the stimulus package so that our economy, even though it’s going through a recession, we will come back up faster, we will come back up stronger. If you look at number one, right, the statue reserved for the banks, we need the cash to be saved right is at 1% while in 2020, we have more cash, right? OBR at that particular time he said 2% are right now he said at this but this one was done quite some time was a 2.5%. We have actually reduced the rate even further, right. In 2009. Over 30 billion stimulus was actually announced. Well, this year due to COVID-19, we announced over 250 billion stimulus packages. In 2009 that was during the financial crisis, right? There’s no moratorium, so everybody still has to pay their loan.  In 2020, there’s automatic load monitoring, which for the next four for six months, we don’t have to pay for our loan, meaning we’ve got cash in hand. So that actually saves a lot of people from defaulting in the loop. So what happened after 2009? Right? So this is actually what happened. So in terms of COVID, in terms of the financial crisis right, what actually happened is that it takes a lot of other dominoes in the market before a property bull run happens. So for capital, right, we take this opportunity COVID-19 to actually buy a lot of properties. The reason why is because we see in the next 12 to 24 months, we will have a property bull run. Property bull run in Malaysia typically will happen after four dominoes fall. And what happens is that the property prices tend to double right, so I’m going to go on to slide number seven. Slide number seven is what I call the four horsemen.

Darren: Wait, I’m sorry if we could stop a little bit. For the SRR, OPR, what do they mean?

Nicholas: The SRR is actually the reserve that the banks will need to have. In 2009 what happened is that they’ve got less of the cash, more subject to external shocks or pressure. While right now we’ve got a better banking system, we have got a stronger bank right? OPR is our overnight policy rate where that is where our interest rate is benchmarked against. So in 2009, what happens that is actually do 2% in 2020, or just for the 2.5 you have to change it. I’ll be changing it to two. We’re actually the lowest since America, since our independence day. This year. Our OPR is the lowest. So in terms of buying property, you have got the lowest interest meaning your repayment every month is actually much, much lower. Here’s the reason why a lot of people, if they see the opportunity, this is the year that they will buy.

Darren: I see. So go back to four horsemen, right. That’s interesting. So would you mind elaborating on the four horsemen slide a bit more.

Nicholas: So what happens Darren, if you look at historical data, right time, there’s a property bull run, the property bull run happened in 2010, all the way up to 2013. That’s where the prices property prices, double, double, double, you need to queue up to buy property right. Before that happened, there’s actually four triggers or the four horsemen that we call that right. The first one is actually OPR cut. OPR cut meaning the interest rate being cut. So the government at that particular time cut the OPR rate. Very, very similar to what is currently happening in 2020. Right, so number two, they made it very, very easy to buy properties. At that particular time in 2009, it was something called a DIBS developer interest bearing scheme, meaning during construction, you don’t have to pay anything, you only start paying upon completion of the property, right? In Malaysia, I’ll  give you a context in Malaysia, if you buy a property during construction, you need to service your loan, you need to pay a certain amount for the interest right? At that particular time the developer pay for your interest, you only pay full amount upon completion. This year, and last year 2018. The government came up with HOC policy, which is called the home ownership campaign right, which is to ease people, especially Malaysians to actually buy property. The third one is the mega infrastructure launch. Every time the government started a mega infrastructure and that in 2009, as well, where all the high rise are being built. You’ll see this happening, right now we’re actually  seeing it the same. You’ve got your LRPs. You’ve got your you’ve got your LRT bill, your MRT too, you’ve got your HSR. You’ve got your ECRL being built this year, and those are the money that has been poured into the infrastructure. The last one, the last one, that is the key catalyst or spot market to a property bull is actually the stock market bull run. So what happens to Malaysians, I’m not sure about Hong Kong, Malaysians tend to gamble more on the stock market, they make a lot of money from the stock market the profit from that they buy property. So, if you look into right now, if you look at the Malaysian stock market, especially the glyph counters, everybody doubled and tripled. I’ll give you an example, Supermax a glove maker fourth biggest in Malaysia right, went from $1.52 all the way up to $15 ringgit, meaning 100,000 invested there, in a short period of four months became one hundred thousand invested, it became 1 million. So you’ve seen that it is a crazy stock market bull run happening this year. So when will the property bull run happen? It will happen in next 12 to 24 months. 

Darren: I see. No, I think Hong Kong has a similar kind of mindset because a lot of people here, like, you know, they play stock because they don’t have enough money yet. And once they get enough money, they go to the real estate market. So the trend is very similar. And I think that it’s not only about Hong Kong, you know, Hong Kong is one of the biggest stock markets kind of in the world trading. But this is very similar on that regard. And by the way, what you have explained to the audience is very useful. It’s something that like, I’m sure, like, even for myself just by reading through your slides, I learned so much from it. So thank you so much on that, too. So you know, like I said before, right, I talked to Amos and other people that are from Malaysia as a guest, we can go on hours and hours. And I think that is very, very good insight. And I’m sure people will reach out to you to want to talk more about it. And there’s just only a couple more questions that I have. For example, right, what other tips do you have to summarize everything for the audience to take away from, because I’m sure a lot of us have a lot of questions, a lot of ideas what to do next, if you have anything that you want to capsulate and kind of remind the audience on what to do.

Nicholas: So for your audience, right? If they’re buying property there’s a few things you need to do. Of course there are the five criterias right. You also need to look in the affordability of the market. So I’ll bring you all the way until slide 12. So slide 12 is actually about the median household income by state. So I thank you for your question asking. If I’ve got money should I be investing in KL or should I be investing in Johor. Same price 1 million ringgit, 1 million yeah. If you look at Kuala Lumpur, right in 2019, their median household income is actually at $10,000 ringgit, above $10,000 ringgit so to pay for a million ringgit condo for them. It is actually quite reasonable. Achievable. But if you go all the way to down to Johor, then you can actually see that their income level is actually hovering at $6000 ringgit. So I mean, your viewers and myself and yourself must agree right. If you’re earning $6000 ringgit, you cannot pay $5000 ringgit for installment, right, The leftover $1000 you cannot eat. I mean, you have to pay for your food you have to pay for internet and whatnot. Let’s be honest, you cannot survive it. So hence, where I’m coming from is that you need to understand what’s the median income of each state. And then to see whether the property that you’re buying, can it be sustained by the local market. So going back to the fourth part, the fourth criteria, if anything would happen, if you want to move to Singapore, if you want to move to back to Hong Kong, right, can you actually rent it out? So there’s only so many expats who can rent it out. You need to make sure that, you know, if expats fail, can you actually rent it up to the local market, which of course, logically speaking, there’s a bigger pool of market right? So focus on those things and always focus on the five criterias, always focus on these particular household income, and you’d be quite safe. Now the prediction that we’re having right to do to sum it all up – that will be page 10. You will look at interest rate, we are actually having the lowest interest rate right now, as of today, the lowest interest rate for the past since our independence day, right? We’re expecting one more round to be cut. Anything that you buy, net price, yeah, anything that you buy that is below $600,000 with a 4% rental yield will be the best performer. So your SBA could be 1 million ringgit, but try to get something with a 40% discount if you could. All properties in Malaysia will be under pressure, always by new. More infrastructure is coming. So I’ve just given you the four horsemen right, focus on the infrastructure, focus on where the infrastructure is, when is it being completed and you will see the bull run coming. MRO basically what it says that this page 11 MRO is basically saying that multiple rental options, don’t just focus on the expat tenant. Of course, having the expat tenant is great, but also focus on the local market as well. That’s where the median income for each state is happening. You’re gonna see a lot of developers under pressure. That’s nice for your investors. Identify this kind of projects, make sure that these developers have got the capability to finish building it and then you’re going to get a good deal. The last one is actually, myself we’ll – we’re going to get a lot of people hating us for sharing all this information, but I guess it from that point of views that your viewers as long as they follow, they use the five criteria, they will not lose money.

Darren: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great because like, I know that a lot of people in the real estate sector they try really hard to sometimes like please everyone and try not to say too much unless it’s like off the record, but I believe that like, I think it’s time to really democratize and help people more about these things, because otherwise the industry will never improve and progress further, you know? So I really appreciate what you’re doing here. I really do. And what’s something that you and your firm have been working on recently? Because right now with COVID-19, I’m sure you guys are buying more and more properties, like what other things are you working on at the moment?

Nicholas: We are actually only working on buying properties. To be fair, right now, the deals are coming in fast, they are good deals, we are always looking for good properties. So long as they meet our grading criteria, we will be buying it. We are currently just focusing on buying right now to be honest, because if you look at a market rate, the lowest would be us, I don’t think they’re going to go any lower. It can only go up from this year onwards, and this is probably the best time for local, for foreign investors to actually buy something in Malaysia. So for us, we are actively hunting; our predominant focus right now is to buy as much as we can. So we are not focusing on any other things besides buying right now. So thank you to COVID-19 in the sense that you know, it actually allows developers to drop, giving them more pressure and allowing them to drop the prices even further. So from my firm, for my clients, they are buying things that are up to 30 to 40%. discount. And for your investors, right, I’m going to share this we are buying something that is actually in the middle of Mount Keira which is expat hub, you’ve got to Koreans, the Japanese, the Americans, the Europeans, the Hong Kong, all of them are staying there and you’re buying something that will actually make you money, at least $500 ringgit per month in terms of cash flow. But of course those are only for my investors right.

Darren: No I get it, I get it. I really think that like we should do more of these because there’s so many questions I have, but I will reserve it for next time because like they’re questions for example, right I was thinking about the culture of what’s going on, with the wealth for example, I know a lot of Malaysia as a country is getting a lot wealthier, what’s going to happen? What’s your prediction in years now? And then we can reserve that for next time because there’s so many things and obviously like I’m sure the audience will want to ask you more questions. So like, what are some ways that you suggest the audience reach out to you?  Through emails or LinkedIn or is there a way to find you to talk to you more about this kind of stuff?

Nicholas: I think you can send me an email. They can also WhatsApp me. I am faster in WhatsApp. They can also Facebook me. I will be faster in WhatsApp and Facebook. I will check my emails once a day so do expect delays. But if you want a faster response, you want to understand more about whatever, just WhatsApp me. I’ll pass you my number and also my email and also my facebook.

Darren: Yeah, so I’ll have everything in the show notes, and the slide you have to offer and the property grading template as well to make sure everyone knows where they can find them. And I just want to say, because this is like 30 minutes, I don’t think it’s really enough. But thanks so much for your time. And then I’m really looking forward to round two, and then I really appreciate the time that you happen to give, and the thoughts that come into preparing everything we have.

Nicholas: No problem. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Darren: Yeah, thank you and then talk to you next time then. Thank you.

Nicholas: Alright. 

Darren: Good day. Bye.

Nicholas: Bye.


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4 Common Feng Shui myths busted!

Feng Shui Myths Busted
Feng shui, a forever mysterious yet intriguing topic. Yet many scammers out there trying to make a fortune by misinterpreting this ancient school of study.

Feng shui, a forever mysterious yet intriguing topic. Some may call it superstition, yet some find it magical and terrifyingly accurate. Yet, there are many scammers out there trying to make a fortune by misinterpreting this ancient school of study. Based on what we sourced from our experts and community, let’s bust the 4 most common feng shui myths about real estate equity investment today.

Points of fortune are the most important thing in a flat

When decorating a new home, most people will consider placing the right furniture on the right points on fortune, for example, placing the children’s room on “ the point of academia”  to improve academic results. However, merely considering the positions of these points of fortune are not enough. The exact positions of these points should be calculated carefully with consideration of the time of the year, the birth year of the house owner, and the position of the flat itself. In simpler words, the points of fortune are different in every flat. Some feng shui amateurs may try to determine these spots by themselves after reading a few articles online, and that may not be a good idea. To achieve the most desirable result, you should find a feng shui master to calculate the points of fortune specific to your flat and your fate. You can check out Denzity’s new directory to find trust-worthy and credible real estate experts who specialize in feng shui.

Road-facing flats are bad and should be avoided at all cost

Most feng shui rules will tell you to avoid flats facing roads. This rule sounds simple enough, yet it may not be as definite as you think. There are various types of roads, and you have to consider the nature of the road. If it is a straight and long highway, this is probably not good for your health. However, if the road is short and wide, or maybe decorated by trees on the side, then it may even be good for you.

Feng shui rule books should be followed word by word

Feng shui is an ancient science. It was developed in ancient China, and we can all agree that real estate equity investment has changed a long way. One of the major differences would be the shapes of the flats. In the past, people usually built houses by themselves, and houses were built in rectangles or squares. Yet, nowadays, the shapes of flats are determined by developers and to save spaces, most of the flats in Hong Kong are not in rectangular shapes. Even for markets less competitive like the Malaysia real estate market and Vietnam real estate market, it is very rare to find a perfectly rectangular flat. That creates a problem because ancient feng shui relied heavily on the relationship of the flat with the surrounding environment. With the change in building structure, it is unreasonable to follow the old rules because some of them may not be applicable anymore. Check out our conversation with the feng shui master on Denzity Insights  to learn more about modern feng shui practices.

Feng shui DIY is ok, as long as I follow the advice of feng shui masters

It is now easy to look up some simple feng shui rules online, but it is never that simple. Feng shui is a complicated subject and sometimes, a small change can make a big difference. Unable to examine the situation individually, feng shui masters usually give generic advice on television or online. For example, they may say metals are good in offices for people born in the year of dragon, so you hang a decorative sword on the wall, not knowing that sharp metal objects are harmful to your fate. Therefore, it is always the best to consult a trustworthy feng shui master.

Do you have any interesting stories about real estate equity investment? Share with us in the comment section!

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker


Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker

Connect with Tom:

Website: https://www2.colliers.com/en-hk/experts/tom-parker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-parker-mrics-924407a5/

Email: tom.parker@colliers.com

The surveyor plays an essential role, but a lot of real estate investors do not fully understand their work. Today, we have Tom to tell us more about it.

Tom is a Chartered Surveyor at Colliers International Hong Kong. He works within the Valuation and Advisory Services department where he is responsible for providing property valuation and consultancy advice to institutional and private investors across Asia. 

  • What are the key roles of a surveyor?
  • What are the different types of surveyors?
  • How do surveyors impact an investment?
  • Why is it necessary to engage with one?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Darren: Hey, Tom.

Tom: Hey, Darren, how’s it going?

Darren: It’s good. Good. Thanks for coming in, because I think I met you, I think last year, close to last year. And there were happy hour drinks with a bunch of people in our industry. And last month, again, I met you with my friend Gary. And it’s great to talk about, you know, our work. And something that I really want to know as a surveyor, because to give you my background before I used to work in real estate funds so the only time that I worked with a surveyor is for Appraisal. But then obviously for developments, for other works that tend to be more and given different surveyors. So this episode is explored more on that kind of subject. And so thanks for coming in and I hope this is a blast for all of us.

Tom: Brilliant, thank you for having me and yeah looking forward to it.

Darren: Yeah, well, for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them your background and a bit about yourself?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So, hey, everyone. My name’s Tom Parker. I’m a manager in the Federation Advisory Services at Colliers in Hong Kong. I’ve been working in Hong Kong for close to two years now. Previously, I was working in the United Kingdom, where I began work in 2011. So I’m a chartered surveyor. So that means I’m a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and I’m an RICS registered buyer as well. So most of my work essentially involves carrying out evaluation and advisory projects across Asia. So not just limited to Hong Kong, I still do some work in the United Kingdom as well. So it’s a fairly global remit. But essentially the main role I have is helping clients make investment decisions, helping them manage their portfolio, effectively, making sure they’re getting the right advice to make these decisions.

Darren: I see well so for the audience and myself who are not familiar with surveyors and appraisals, would you mind telling the audience a broad intro of the concept and what they do?

Tom: Sure. So essentially, appraisal is a function of a surveyor. So you can have surveyors for various different roles. There are surveyors who appraise arts and antiquities, there are surveyors who will measure land surveyors who be involved in the construction of projects. They’ll look at building defects, they’ll estimate building costs, what building materials are required. But most surveys generally, if you hear the term general practice surveyor, they’re typically property surveyors and normally commercial surveyors as well. So one of our roles is appraisal. And then alongside that, we’ll also do landlord and tenant work, we’ll do agency work as well. So we perform the full function. Appraisal is essentially giving a value for property or building at a certain point in time. So that’s one of the many roles we can fulfill.

Darren: So, yeah, I’m like living under a rock so there are a lot of questions I have regarding this subject. So before anything, right would you mind because just now you mentioned that there’s commercial surveyors, there’s a residential surveyor, what other types are there? And then what are the types that a new real estate investor tends to work with?

Tom: Okay, so the easiest thing to do is to split into three different pathways. So there’s property surveyors. There are land surveyors. And then there are art and antiquity surveyors. So the art and antiquities is quite a small arm. It’s a fairly niche part of surveying. And they’ll essentially look at the fine art, give values for fine art. They’ll appraise the additional value if it’s fine art at all, for instance, one example could be, I’m from southwest England, you may have heard of the graffiti artist Banksy.

Darren: Yeah.

Tom: Properties that have a Banksy on them, which a few do in Bristol, that can have a major impact on the value of that property. So we’ve seen vast differences between properties that have the Banksy on and the one next to it doesn’t. So that’s one side of things. Then the land surveyors, they will typically they’re the people you often see out on the street. They’ve got the tripods. They’ve got the cameras. They’re looking at distances. They’re looking at different heights of land. That’s how surveyors originally came about so that was that. A primary role, hence the term surveyors, it was surveying land, say, maps that you see produce. Where you see the contour lines. Where you see the heights of mountains. That was work originally produced by surveyors. That, too, is still quite a – it’s become much more of a niche part of surveying. So typically when someone says I’m a surveyor, I’m a chartered surveyor, they’ll be talking about property surveying and then we can split that into commercial, which is four sites. I generally look at commercial buildings, that’s offices, shops, industrial properties could be things like hospitals, schools as well. Then there will be residential space and then you’ll also have real surveyors as well. You don’t see them as often in Hong Kong. Fairly common in the UK and they will look predominately at farmland. They will work on the sale of large tracts of land. They’ll also look at alternative energy projects as well. Power stations that sort of work. And then there’s building in quantity surveyors as well. So a building surveyor is someone who you would call if you’re looking to buy a building, but you want to know, does this property have any defects? If I buy it today, how much money am I likely to be spending over the next five to ten years? I’m keeping this property up to standards. And then there’s quantity surveyors as well. And they generally work with long construction projects. And their job is to say, okay, to complete this project, you will need X number of bricks, certain amount of time. So they’ll work alongside the costing of a project to make sure all the materials are delivered on time. And you know exactly how much it’s going to cost. Now generally the main thing is commercial space.

Darren: Obviously, because in real estate surveying obviously has a very important role, which I’ll go into detail later on. And then just I think a lot of people, when they think about surveying, it works closely with conveyancing. Would you mind explaining it as well on the conveyancing as surveryors role in the process?

Tom: You see, conveying is essentially buying and selling assets. So a surveyor, you don’t need to have a surveyor to work with you to buy or sell land, but I would say it would be highly recommended. And there’s a number of reasons why. So if you bring a surveyor in when you’re looking to buy or sell a piece of land in the first instance, their role will be purely advisory. So you could say, look, I’m interested in disposing of this property. Can you come in and have a look at it? And a surveyor can come in and the first and they can do is give you an appraised of the value of the property. So at that stage, you know, straightaway, “Okay, my building is worth X million Hong Kong dollars.” So you’ve got a good idea of what you should be to sell it for in the market so you can have a fair degree of confidence when you do get an offer as to whether that represents market value or not. Another role for them may be to have them work with you to look at whether a dispose of this is in your best interests at that time. So you may say, okay, we’re looking to dispose this property in the next six months, but the surveyor might come on board and say, well, actually, have you considered this? And that could be a multitude of reasons why selling the property at that particular time isn’t in their best interests. So the surveyor should be able to work with them to help them come up with a much more fought out and structured disposal program. Then it comes onto the technical side of things. So a lot of the work that we still do is agency based. So we would represent the particular seller to help them find a buyer for the property. And that would involve not just finding the buyer, but also ensuring the terms upon which the sale is agreed, “Are they best suited to the seller and the best terms that they can get?” So that helps them know that they’re getting – so they’ll be getting their advice all the way through the process. Then when it comes onto the actual legal side of the conveyancing, the surveyor will work with their client alongside the solicitors to make sure that the client is getting real estate specific advice. So although a lot of solicitors are most solicitors will have a fair degree of knowledge in real estate when it comes down to some of the more technical aspects of real estate, it still pays to have a surveyor there in your corner to help you understand what it might mean for you if you agree to a certain term, what a certain clause may mean to make sure you’re fully clued up for about the process. And I think they can add the value that perhaps the solicitor can’t do in that instance.

Darren: I see. Because, like, it seems like a very technical work when I listen to it and everything it seems like it requires a lot of studying, a lot of experience, a lot of insights that a lot of people in the real estate industry might not even know. So what do you need to become a surveyor and what kind of license do you need to be one?

Tom: Again, this depends on what sort of survey you want to be and which professional background, which professional body you want to be a member of. So typically the term surveyor sits alongside the term charter surveyor. So if someone says to you, I’m a chartered surveyor or if you see the designation MRCS FRCS after their name, that will mean they’re a member of the institution of charters. So this was the original professional body. It was founded, I think it was founded in 1868 so it’s a fairly old body, take you back quite a long way. So to become a member of the RICS, first we have to do a RICS accredited degree. Now, this is something I think a lot of people who are looking to go into real estate don’t always realize straight away. So it’s something I didn’t realize myself. So my undergraduate degree was in geography. Well, actually, if you want to become a chartered surveyor and you want to do it as quickly as possible, you need to do an accredited degree. So I then did the master’s degree in real estate in order to get that Rik’s accreditation. Once you’ve got that, then you then need to find a job. So you’ll start off as a graduate surveyor. And typically graduate surveyors will work within different departments at the business so they can see, do I want to work in valuations? Do I want to work on professional advisory? Do I want to work for an agency? They’ll have the chance to explore different areas of business. And then as they’re doing this, they’ll be building up – we call it an APC diary. So the APC is an Assessment’s Professional Competence. And your diary is something you fill in as you’re going. So you have to do this over two years. And at the end of the two years, you can do your APC, the Assessment Professional Competence. And that consists of an interview and a presentation. And within that interview, the assessors will decide, does this person demonstrate the professional and ethical standards in order to become a chartered surveyor? So if you do fantastic, that’s great. You’ve passed and you become a Chartered Surveyor. The other route, and this is something that’s open to people who don’t perhaps have professional experience, sorry who don’t have the accredited degree is the professional experience route. So this would allow someone who’s accumulated a certain number of years of professional experience the chance to go straight through to the interview process. So a panel can then decide whether they have enough experience to date, whether they’ve got the qualities required. There’s different routes and not having an RICS degree is not necessarily the end of it but for younger people coming into the industry, it’s the quickest and the easiest way to become chartered.

Darren: That actually sounds like a lot of work. When you say it out loud, I’m just like, “Wow, I’m just really happy that I didn’t have to go through that path because I know it’s a technical.” I’m not someone that like you kind of just read some books and just know how it works. And it does require a lot of particularist experience and study and to be really good at one. So, you know, it’s something that is a very, I wouldn’t say rough, it’s more like it’s an interesting pathway, I would say, in the real estate sector. So it’s kind of cool. So, you know, like obviously this show, I’m sure you’re aware, is for investors or people who want to understand real estate, learn more about investing overseas or locally, and what’s the best way of the whole process. So there’s something that I want to know your point of view on is that what are some potential risk for real estate investors when they neglect engaging with their surveyors? You know, because just now, I think the question we mentioned before is that, you know, in some process, you’ll have to have one. But then it’ll be very important to be as advisors or having a longer team to help you out. So I would like to have your opinion on that.

Tom: Yes, sure. So for me, investment or good investment is about de-risking yourself as much as possible. Typically, for less risky investments, say, putting your money in a high interest yielding account, that’s a fairly low risk investment. So your level of return is going to be pretty low as well. We’re talking maybe one percent possibly. With real estate, you can typically get a yield. Yields in Hong Kong are very light. But still, you’d be looking at the moment to get a yield of around between 2.5% through to 10% plus. Now, the higher the yield, the higher the level of risk is. But if you want to try and really understand that investment, I would say the best thing to do is to bring on board a professional advisor. So this should be someone who’s familiar with the local market, who’s familiar with the property type and who can give you a fair appraisal of that particular investment. So, for instance, maybe we have a client – hypothetical situation we have a client who’s looking to acquire a property in Thailand. Now they may look at the properties and think, “This is great. It’s offering us 9.5% yield every year. It looks like it’s led to some good tenants. It’s a nice new building. Where does that go wrong?” Well, actually, there’s quite a lot that can go wrong. A surveyor at the initial stage, they get to look at that property for you and look at what’s happened in the area around the property. For instance, it may be there’s some serious infrastructure works going on that will affect accessibilities for that property over the next couple of years. If you look at the tenant profile, they may have that market knowledge vacant advisor and say, “hey, your anchor tenant has been in the market for the past six months looking for a new property.” Now, that’s information that you wouldn’t normally have unless you start to speak to a professional. Now, if you speak to a general estate agent, they may tell you things like this in order to try and persuade you to either buy the property or not buy it. If you’re engaging a surveyor and you’re engaging a professional, you should be able to rely on that information much more. As you know, the surveyor doesn’t have a hidden agenda. They make it very clear to you at the start. If they’ve got a conflict of interest or not, if they have, they shouldn’t be acting for you. But normally they won’t if they’re active for you. So you can be confident that they’re giving you unbiased and independent advice. So that can help you formulate the strategy for acquiring a property. So you may look at it now and say, “Okay, 40% the property could be vacant in the next 18 months, what’s going on in the market?” And the surveyor would be able to work with them and say, well, actually, inquiries have dropped down by 20% over the past six months. We’re seeing rents falling and they’ve fallen over the past few quarters by around 5% que on que, and our projection is they’ll continue to fall as well over the next couple of quarters. So you can start to build up much more of a detailed method statement for getting ahead the investments or not. And that enables you to do a proper appraisal. And it may be that once you build in the void periods, once you build in the rental decline, once you build in all the other factors, once you’ve come up with a final figure, the surveyor might say, well, actually you’re looking at this property for $10 million baht. Actually, we only consider the property is worth $7 million baht, particularly if you want to achieve your your 8-9% yield. So it’s it’s helping you to derisk the investment. There’s other roles a surveyor could fulfill as well. So you maybe you employ a building surveyor alongside your commercial surveyor. And the building surveyor might say, well, I’ve had a look at the, I’ve had a look at the construction and there’s a couple of hazardous materials within the building or there’s a couple of inherent defects within the building. And whilst it may not be an issue at the moment, over the next five to 10 years, this may become much more of an issue and may require a significant level of capital expenditure to resolve. So it’s looking longer term as well and looking at what your costs are going to be over that period. So you can see initially an investor may look at the investment and think this is fantastic, but then if they drill down a little bit more, they may start to see some of the issues, some of the hidden costs and some of the some of the things they’re going to have to overcome over the next few years. So for me, it is about giving the investor all the information they need in order to make us as clear and as transparent decision as possible. And that’s really the value of a surveyor. And I’ve seen so many instances where people have gone to buy property and haven’t been properly informed about the property, haven’t taken the right advice and it’s it’s come back to hurt them further down the line. They’re not making as much money as they could have done or they’re ending up losing money.

Darren: For sure. I think something that people it’s like, you know, if you floss every day; people know that they just keep forgetting it. So obviously, hopefully this type of video will help people to remind them that, hey, maybe you should consider engaging with one or having some one on your team to have better decision making. And then so I’ll switch back to something you’re more familiar with the commercial setting right. What kind of role can surveyors do to impact with investments?

Tom: See, there’s, obviously, the initial work they’ll do before you’re looking to buy the property, which we just covered. And then there’s the ongoing management of the property as well. So a surveyor or surveying firm, because you’ll be using different arms or different types of surveyors to do this work, will be able to manage the property for you. They’ll be able to find new tenants. They’ll be here to give you advice on what’s happening elsewhere in the market. For instance, have similar buildings sold recently. Are you seeing certain tenants looking to move around? What’s going on in the market? It will help you to to really understand what’s going on and really give you that information you need to make detailed decisions. So when it comes to when it comes to board meetings, you’ve got to be very clear, very concise details to have exact to what’s happening. So you can make the best possible decisions. One of the roles but is often blurred with an estate agent is on the agency side of things. Using a surveyor for the agency is very different to using an estate agent. First of all, about the additional professional and ethical requirements that a surveyor has, they can’t act for you or they can’t do work if there’s a conflict of interest. So, you know, everything they’re doing for you is going to be in your absolute best interests. And the advice they’re giving you is not to make you make a decision. It’s not for them to make to make a quick dollar from you. It’s for you to make the best possible decisions. I think really for me, that is the fundamental quality of a surveyor. And the reason why people should continue to engage with surveyors is that level of trust and that level of transparency.

Darren: I see, you know, obviously throughout the questions so far, you kind of listed out a couple of ways that surveyors can help. Would you mind because like a lot of people, might need some explanation of how to walk through and everything. Would you mind doing a walk through on one or two scenarios on how and why people need to engage with surveyors and let’s say a fund or, you know, someone who’s got a family office or something like that.

Tom: Okay, so I guess one example could be there’s a fund who have several commercial office buildings. They are looking at what they should do with these properties. Should they hold on to them? Should they sell them? If they sell them, should they sell one or two or should they sell the whole thing? So I would say if you’re ever in this position, the best thing you can do is speak to a surveyor straightaway. The surveyor will be able to come in and provide that information for you. It’s the way that would work initially, I’d say the best thing you could do at this stage is or the initial step would be to get a full appraisal done of all the properties. So that should enable the fund to say, okay, these are our properties. This is what they would be worth if we were to sell them in the current market. So that enables you to look at what the potential returns are if you were to sell the property. The second stage, I would say, would be to undertake a full market, a market appraisal, sort of to look at what’s going on in the market, to look at what else is available. So the surveyor could work with them to say, well, if you sold these properties, you would potentially have a large amount of capital that you’d be looking to redeploy. Now, you could look to redeploy that in the local market. And we’ve identified a couple of opportunities for you. And they’ll be given a list of properties and details on the potential return. Details on what we consider the risks that those particular investments are, how we see that property evolving over time. So do we see it possibly being under the threat of high levels of vacancy? Do we see new buildings being built around it that could perhaps access competition so that should then enable the fund to say, “Well okay, well, if we do sell, this is what we could buy instead.” And that could be extended not just to the local market, but also to a more international scale as well. So it may be a fund asking us in Hong Kong to look at this for them. And we say, well, have you considered investment in Malaysia? And we could connect them with our experts in that part of the world who would then be able to help them see what’s available in that market as well. So it’s about giving them. We’re not telling them which decision to make. We’re giving them the data. We’re giving them the information they need in order to start making these decisions. Now, coming back to the valuation side of things within the valuation report, as well we will typically give advice on what could be done within the property in order to help preserve its value or improve its value. So one of the things we might say is the current average lease term is fairly short. So if we sell the property and you can only say what the current level of income is guaranteed for the next six months, that immediately starts to ring alarm bells for investors. Whereas if we could say to them, if you extended that from, say, at the moment, the average lease time is two years, if we extend some of these key tenants, look to tie them into new leases and perhaps tie them down for longer period maybe up to three years that could have this impact upon your overall value. It may even be that you could offer them a rental discount to get them to sign a longer lease. And that would still increase the value because it’s increasing the level of security investors would have about the level of income. So it’s helping them there to position the assets as well. So say if you did dispose of this asset, this is how you could make sure it’s in the best possible position in the market to achieve the highest possible price. Then if you do say, right, that’s it. We want to sell these two properties. Then you could bring this surveyor back in again to help you sell the property. So that would be a case of producing a suitable marketing program, sending it to various parties who they may know are currently in the market and helping the seller to achieve the best possible price for the property. Then once that’s done, they could work with them again in terms of where do we move the money now? What do we sink this capital into? So it is about providing them with all the advice and guidance and making sure that they’ve got all the information they need to make the decision first of all and then making sure that any decision they do make, they’ve been given the advice to make sure they’re positioning themselves in the best possible place so that they’re achieving the best, the best possible result they can. Now, there’s other roles that the surveyor could do as well in terms of looking at redevelopment, looking at what upcoming works required. The redevelopment tango in Hong Kong is always an interesting one. A number of buildings could be redeveloped to achieve a higher sale price. And that may also be something the client hasn’t initially considered but it could be something we give to them. So say actually, your property’s worth two billion Hong Kong dollars at the moment. However, you’ve got an opportunity to redevelop this asset and there’s a building that’s recently redeveloped just across the street, similar size, and that’s now worth four and a half billion Hong Kong dollars. So maybe they then work with them on the redevelopment to that asset so that they’ve got the best possible. They’ve maximized the value of that of that particular property.

Darren: I think you did a great job of painting the whole picture, because now, I’m sure everyone will be like now I understand the differences and then it sounds like you are also the investors very close alliance to like how to make the asset better, investment better and think better. And obviously, the decision making is still on the investors point of view. But you’re there to support them in every single journey. So you did a very good picture painting of what you do and what surveyors do as a whole, how does the industry evolved over the years? And then you know we both understand Property Tech and the power of it. What’s your view on how technology can change the whole landscape of it?

Tom: So just to give a bit of a brief history and in terms of our profession. So Surveryors actually the first use of the term surveyor was actually found in ancient Egypt. So surveyors worked back in Egyptian times. They helped to map the land when the Nile would flood each year. And then when the flood waters receded, they helped to map who or which particular farmer would have which particular parcel of land. So that’s how surveying started. And then even probably up till 200 years ago, that was still the main role of surveyors. It was about mapping land. And it was about registering ownership. Now, when the industrial revolution happened and you saw more more commercial buildings. So up until that point, you had shops sure, but typically, a shop was the ground floor of someone’s house. You didn’t really have factory buildings. You’d have farms, but no factories. And the concept of an office was still fairly, fairly abstract at that point. So when the industrial revolution happened, you started seeing much more in the way of development of commercial buildings. And then surveying evolved as well to meet the needs of the owners of these buildings. So at first, factories, offices, they would be developed by whoever it was who would one day occupy the building, but then they started realizing, okay actually, we want to move to a larger factory, but I would like to hold onto this one and try and find a new tenant. And that’s where surveying really started to change and become much more transactional, much more advisory in that regard as well. And that was really the birth of commercial surveying. Now, as an industry, surveying has been fairly slow to adapt to technological changes. From a boss who used to take great pleasure in telling me about how the standard day would start, they’d all sit around in the mayor room for two hours opening letters. And a number of my former colleagues, particularly older ones, they would still most of the work they did was on pen and paper. They still like to use tape measures, measure rods. They hadn’t moved on to perhaps a bit more I’d say recent developments. But actually, the likes of laser measures, computer aided design, that’s been around for a long time. But still, there’s been a reluctance particularly among our oldest surveyors to properly embrace that. We still see it today. I’d say, in terms of the use of technology, surveying is is behind many other sectors. Now, I’m not sure exactly what the reasons for this are. And I have to say as well in Hong Kong, it seems to be a particular problems. I’d say Hong Kong perhaps hasn’t fully embraced all the changes in the same way as some of the other parts of the world have. But going forward, I think technology has huge potential to severely disrupt our industry. So we’ve been looking at this a lot lately, say, for appraisal, one of the things you can start seeing a lot more of and you start to see in other parts of the world is automated valuation models. So these are essentially what you would do you’ll see on a lot of Websites, you can get free one done, you just put in your property address and details and it gives you a rough value where the automated variation models taken that a couple of steps further. So, again, you give all the details about your property and then within, say, 10 minutes, it can give you a fairly accurate valuation. So I’ve seen reports saying that they’ve managed to get the automated vibration models through in 95% accuracy. I’m not disputing that and I think that certainly will start to happen more. But that technology is still catching up. It’s still trying to fully incorporate all the all the subtleties that perhaps you need in order to appraise the value of a property. But that’s going to severely change the way we value properties. And for investors, instead of bringing on board a firm of surveyors to do the evaluation for them in say, two weeks, if they could get a figure of in 10 minutes and minimizing all these human errors, that’s got to be a major attraction. The other side of it is we’ve agency. So we’ve seen the rise of virtual agents. So at the moment, these don’t take on any physical form. It’s entirely, entirely based online. But I’ve seen some places where you go out and you have the virtual agent on your phone and you can say, “Oh, hey, what did what did this property sell for next door?” And the virtual agent will be equipped of all the with all the transaction information that’s available. Everything that you’re able to build into that database and they can say, oh, this property sold last year for this price. Now, normally, if you go in the command of property, whoever is showing you around should be able to tell you roughly what properties will sell for next door. But to have this service, to have someone who’s got all the information on hand, every single transaction you’ve got records of, that is incredibly valuable. And these electronic agents, they’re available 24/7. They have a 100% callback records. So really, that’s going to change massively how we buy and sell property. Now, does that mean the end of people like me, humans surveyors? No, absolutely not. I certainly hope not. I think there’s still real estate. Real estate is very much relationship driven still. And I think always will be. So I think these technological changes will help to compliment the industry and they will help to improve our standards as well. They’ll help us to minimize some of our errors, they’ll help us to become more efficient. But as far as valuation gaze, yes, a large part of valuation is scientific, but also valuation is still very much an art as well. And I’m not sure a computer model will therefore be able to fully capture that. They might do. But my thoughts of it is that they won’t. So I think that there will always be a role for human surveyors but certainly technology has enormous potential to change the industry as we know it.

Darren: Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of similar products to facilitate a surveyor like AVM, for example, like I remember when I heard about it, I was like “this is too good to be true.” But a lot of people in the industry would think that, hey, some market you can do AVM. Not all of them. And not all the asset class, you know, commercial there’s not much comparables besides it. Residential’s are easier but even rezoning or a new development is still going to be very different. At the same time, there’s drill and everything. but I believe that a surveyor is kind of like, there’s so many neurons, you can’t just have a computer and say, hey, it’s the best outcome. I believe there are more neurons that sometimes it’s not part of that which comes – because our mutual friend Gary has startup called inflow. And so I saw a guest post on it about the global measuring standard. And sorry about that, National Property Management’s standards, sorry about that and then would you mind explaining to the audience what that’s about, because I’m very new to it and it seems like a very big topic in the industry.

Tom: Yes. Absolutely. First off, I’ll just touch briefly on what you just said as well about AVM would work better in certain markets in Hong Kong, we’re very lucky. The market is very transparent. There’s a lot of comparable information around. Same in other markets, Australia, the United Kingdom as well. Very transparent markets in some of the less transparent markets like the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma. It’s much harder to find any comparable information at all. And even if you did, you can’t be that confident with it. You should never take comparative information you can find for these sort of markets and rely upon it. So that’s where again, it has potential. It has potential but there’s still a lot of issues. Then leading on to your next question about the international property measurement standards. I’ll refer to it as IPMS for short. Less of a mouthful, but that really is about transparency again and the information that’s available in the market. So before globalization, I’d say it didn’t matter as much different markets would have certain measurement standards and ways of measurement buildings they used. And it was fine because normally you didn’t need to know about other countries, other markets in as much detail as you do today. The issue we have now is if you’re in charge of the directive, the real state director for a large multinational company, you’re in charge of properties located all across the world. And if you’re comparing a property, typically what we one of the first things to look at with real estate is how big is it? How many square feet is it? How much is it worth per square foot? What can I rent it for per square foot, even down to what other running costs and typically running costs will be expressed, you might say it’s $30 US dollars a square meter to run this particular building. Everything is brought back to size. How much space do you need? It comes down to square feet again. But one of the issues we found and this was discovered probably relatively recently was only around 10, 15 years ago. But they looked at – they took the same office building, exactly the same floor plate. And they had various professionals from across the world try to measure the building and say how big that building was. And what they found is there was a 25% difference in unquoted areas between these professionals, which is enormous, it’s really enormous. And how can you make a decision about real estate and about property if you don’t even have the most basic of information available to enable you to do that. And what we were finding in the market is someone will come to us and they’d say, okay, we have 100 people, and in the UK we occupy one person per hundred square feet. So this is how much space we need. But then when you come down to looking for space, it may be that the UK is measured 25% larger than the market you’re looking at. So you may end up actually taking a space which is 25% too small. And we’ve seen that become an issue. And you see it is costly for businesses because they can’t fit all their staff into the office from the start and then they end up having to move once so they’ve spent all the money going into the office, and then they can only be there for one lease term before they have to move on to find a better, a larger building. So to help them with their decision making to make an even playing field, the idea of having a truly global measuring standard was introduced and it began life solely with offices from January 2016. So we haven’t seen huge uptake so far. But it’s certainly something if you speak to a Chartered Surveyor, it’s something they will be very familiar with and a chartered surveyor should be able to give you the area of building using the IPMS assets, so they should be able to look at both your buildings in different countries and give you a consistent measuring standard that you can then use to make decisions from. Now one of the reasons I think this is important for Hong Kong as well when it comes to finding office space in Hong Kong, you can very quickly become confused about what basis of measurement the landlord is using. You’ll see some landlords stating this office is 10 000 square feet gross. This is 10 000 square foot letter Bo. This is 10 000 square foot on whatever basis of measurement they want to use. This is fairly unique to Hong Kong in most other markets. All the landlords who use the same basis of measurement may not necessarily use IPMS, but they will use the same basis of measurement. But in Hong Kong, it can be very difficult to compare certain buildings because they’ve been measured in a different way. And this trips up a lot of occupiers here as well, because they might say, well, we looked at 10 000 square foot in this building, so it’s got to be the same in this building. Now, it all depends on what basis of measurement they’ve used. And you may think because you’re given the rent, they might say this is HK$20 a square foot. This building is HK$100 per square foot and think oh great this ones the cheaper building, but actually, it might not be. You may be paying more for the space you’re actually physically able to use because of the basis measurement they’ve used. So really IPMS is about improving transparency, letting occupier’s and letting decision makers see exactly how much space they actually have in the building. So it is a very important step.

Darren: I see, So it sounds like a very important thing to do, right? So let’s say if you have a big, you know, a broadcast or a voice through the whole industry, right, how would you tell them about how this standard can impact the industry? And I want to ask you more about why you think it;s not implemented yet? Because it sounds like something that from a surveyor point of view, it sounds very logical even when I heard a whole description of it, it sounds very logical so far but how come it hasn’t been taken so far?

Tom: Yes so I think that the IPMS is an initiative. So people who perhaps aren’t RICS members initially at first will be like oh it doesn’t apply to me, I don’t need to use this. And even people who are RICS members as well. It can be very difficult at the moment still to implement it. And a lot of that comes down to education. So a lot of clients will say we’ve always used this basis of measurement, it’s going to be very difficult for us to explain to our investors why the area has suddenly changed and you’re now telling me the property is 10% smaller than we believed it was. So that’s the difficulty. And I think that’s one of the roles as surveyors is to help raise the awareness of this among our clients and to show them the benefits of it, to help them feel more comfortable perhaps with utilizing it. It’s still fairly early days. As I said about technology in the real estate industry can be quite resistant to change. So I think it’s something you’ve going to start seeing more of going forward. And although it may be a while until all the landlords are using this, it may never get to that stage where landlords use this. But we should be in a position where if you’ve employed a chartered surveyor, they will be able to provide you the advice on this. And they’ll be to give you what the IPMS measurement is for the buildings you’re looking at. They may need to measure it again themselves. If the information isn’t available, but they should be to give you that information to help you make your decisions.

Darren: I see, so, I think today you’ve covered a lot of very important information about what a surveyor does, the future of it, what can be done and why is it important? What kind of take away do you want the audience to have? Regardless, there are maybe retail investors, family offices. What kind of tips do you have for them to find the best surveyors or engage a surveyor to help their investments?

Tom: Thank you, So firstly, you need to make sure you’re engaged in the right surveyor. Now, surveyors should be able to tell you straight away. For instance, if someone phoned me up and said, hey, I’m looking for some advice, I’m looking to buy a shopping mall complex in Australia, I would say straightaway, “Look, I don’t have the knowledge in order to assist you on that. However, I can refer you to a colleague who does have that knowledge.” So you want to make sure you’re using the right surveyor for the job. So surveyors should tell you this, but do look at their background, look at where they’re based, look at their track record. Look at what projects they’ve been involved in in the past. Make sure you get the best person to give you that advice. The other thing, and this is the absolute key, is have a chat with them. Explain what your desired outcome looks like. So the surveyor should be saying to you right from the beginning. Okay, what is your current reality? What’s the position you’re currently in? And now what is your desired reality? How do you want this to look? Once we’ve gone through the project and they should be able to give you some information there and then about how they will help you get from your current reality to your desired reality. But I think really it comes down to expertise. If you’re not using a real expert. You’re not going to be getting the full value for money. So you really need to make sure you’re using the right person. And I think that can be difficult to find, but typically, you want to find someone who’s in the market you’re working in or has a track record within that market.

Darren: I see. I mean, that’s what Denzity kind of wants to do too, because we thought that if we have a better assortment of different experts for example different types of surveyors, different experience, different expertise, then people will spend less time sorting to find the experts. And there won’t be miscommunications or disengagement with someone that cannot help you? So it’s something that always obviously to me, it makes a lot of sense, but something that a lot of investors tend to make. So I want to say thank you for this episode, for your time it’s very informative and for the audience who might want to find you, talk to you more about your services, how would you suggest they reach out to you?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m on Linkedin so you can search for Tom Parker MRICS. Yes. Or Tom Parker Collier’s and you should be to find me that way. Similarly, you could email me. Always very responsive to emails and happy to speak to people, even if they’ve just got a question about how to get into the industry as well. So my email is Tom.Parker@Colliers.com. And they are probably the two main methods to reach out and find me. I do produce a fair amount of media for other sources, but not on social media at the moment myself.

Darren: Okay, that’s fine. So I’ll include everything in the show notes and I want to say thank you for your time, it was a pleasure and I hope there’s a second episode where you can join us again, about maybe I’ll get Gary together, talk about the future of surveying, different type of a way of looking at it so thanks for your time again. Thank you.

Tom: No problem. Thanks, Darren. Thanks so much. Cheers.

Darren: Thank you, bye.

Tom: Bye bye.

Darren:Tom,嘿。 

Tom:嘿,Darren,最近怎麼樣?

 Darren:很好。好。感謝您的參與,因為我認為我遇到了您,我認為去年接近去年。在我們行業中,有很多人在歡樂時光裡喝酒。上個月我又和我的朋友Gary認識了。談論我們的工作真是太好了。還有一些我作為測量師真正想知道的事情,因為我曾經在房地產基金工作,所以我與測量師一起工作的唯一時間是評估。但是對於發展而言,顯然是在其他作品中往往會更多,並賦予不同的測量師。所以這關於此類主題更多。因此,感謝您的參與,我希望這對我們所有人來說都是爆炸。

Tom:太棒了,謝謝希望我和我都非常期待。

 Darren:是的,對於可能不知道您是誰的觀眾來說,您介意告訴他們您的背景以及您的工作嗎? 

 Tom:是的,絕對。所以,大家好 我叫Tom Parker。我是香港Colliers國際聯合會諮詢服務的經理。我在香港工作現在已經接近兩年了。以前,我曾在英國工作,於2011年開始工作。因此, 我是一名特許測量師。因此,這意味著我是英國皇家特許測量師學會的會員,並且我也是RICS註冊。所以我的大部分工作基本上都涉及進行評估和整個亞洲的諮詢項目。不僅限於香港,我還在英國從事一些工作。因此,這是一個相當全球性的任務。但本質上我的主要職責是幫助客戶制定投資決策,幫助他們有效地管理自己的投資組合,確保他們獲得正確的建議來製定這些決策。 

Darren:對於那些不熟悉測量師和評估師的聽眾和我自己來說,我感覺很好,您介意向聽眾大範圍介紹該概念及其作用嗎? 

Tom:當然。從本質上講,評估是測量師的職責。所以你可以有測量師擔任各種不同的角色。有測量師評估藝術品和文物,有測量師將測量參與其中的土地測量師項目建設。他們將研究建築物的缺陷,估計建築物的成本以及所需的建築材料。但是大多數調查一般來說,如果您聽到普通測量師,他們通常是財產測量師,通常也是商業測量師。因此,我們的職責之一就是評估。然後除此之外,我們還將進行房東和承租人工作,我們還將進行代理工作。因此,我們執行全部功能。評估本質上是給在特定時間點的物業或建築物的價值。這就是我們可以履行的眾多角色之一。

Darren:所以,是的,我就像生活在一塊岩石下,所以我對此主題有很多疑問。因此,在開始之前,您會介意的是,因為您剛才提到有商業測量師,有住宅測量師還有什麼其他類型?那麼,新的房地產投資者傾向於使用哪種類型的投資呢?

Tom:好的,最簡單的方法是分成三個不同的途徑。因此,有財產測量師。有土地測量師。然後是藝術品和古代測量師。所以藝術和古物相當小。這是測量的相當小眾的部分。他們本質上將看美術,提供價值用於美術。如果這完全是一門藝術,他們會評估附加值,例如,一個例子可能是,我來自英格蘭西南部,您可能聽說過塗鴉藝術家Banksy。

Darren:是的

Tom:擁有Banksy的房地產(在布里斯托爾有一些房地產)可能對該房地產的價值產生重大影響。所以我們看到啟用Banksy的屬性與相鄰的屬性之間存在巨大差異。這是事情的一方面。然后土地測量師,他們通常是您經常在街上看到的人。他們有三腳架。他們有相機。他們在看距離。他們看著不同的土地。那就是測量師最初的想法。一個主要角色,因此術語“測量員”,就是在測量土地,例如您會看到農產品。您在哪裡看到輪廓線。在這裡您可以看到高山。那是測量師最初製作的作品。那也仍然是–它已成為勘測領域的利基部分。因此,通常當有人說我是測量師時,我是特許測量師,他們會談論房地產測量,然後我們可以將其劃分為四個站點。我通常看的是商業建築,即辦公室,商店工業地產也可能是醫院,學校等。然後將有住宅空間,然後您還將擁有真正的測量師。您在香港並不常見。在英國相當普遍,他們將主要著眼於農田。他們將致力於出售大片土地。他們也會看替代能源項目也是如此。發電廠這樣的工作。然後還有數量測量師的建築。所以建築測量師就是你如果您想購買建築物,則會打電話給您,但您想知道,此物業有任何缺陷嗎?如果我今天買,我可能要花多少錢在未來五到十年?我正在將此建築物保持在標準水平。然後還有數量測量師。他們通常會長期建設項目。他們的工作是說,好的,要完成這個項目,您將需要X塊磚,一定數量的時間。因此,他們將與項目成本核算一起工作,以確保所有材料都按時交付。而且您確切知道要花多少錢。現在通常最主要的是商業空間。

Darren:顯然,因為在房地產調查中顯然具有非常重要的作用, 我將在後面詳細介紹。然後我只是認為,很多人在考慮測量時,它與轉售緊密相關。您是否願意在轉讓中作為測量師的角色中將其解釋為?

Tom:您看到,轉移實質上就是買賣資產。所以測量師,你不需要讓測量師與您一起買賣土地,但是我會強烈建議您這樣做。原因有很多。因此,如果您打算在首次購買或出售一塊土地時將測量師帶入,他們的角色將純粹是建議性的。所以你可以說,看,我對處置此財產感興趣。你能進來看看嗎?驗船師可以進來,首先,他們可以做的是為您評估財產的價值。所以在那個舞台上,您馬上就會知道,“好吧,我的大樓價值100萬港幣。” 因此,您對應該在市場上出售的商品有一個很好的了解,當您收到要約是否代表市場價值時,可以有相當的信心。他們的另一個角色可能是讓他們與您一起研究是否這樣做符合您當時的最大利益。因此,您可能會說,好吧,我們打算在未來六個月內處置此房產,但測量師可能會說,嗯,實際上,您考慮過這個嗎?這可能是在特定時間出售房產不符合其最大利益的多種原因。因此,驗船師應能夠與他們合作,以幫助他們提出解決方案。還有更多的爭奪和結構化的處置計劃。然後涉及到技術方面。所以我們做了很多工作仍然是基於代理機構。因此,我們將代表特定的賣方幫助他們找到該物業的買方。這不僅涉及尋找買家,而且還要確保達成買賣協議的條件,“它們最適合賣方並且可以得到最好的條件嗎?”這樣可以幫助他們知道自己正在得到-因此他們將在整個過程中一直得到他們的建議。然後,當涉及到實際的法律方面時產權轉讓,驗船師將與客戶一起與律師一起工作,以確保客戶得到房地產方面的建議。所以雖然很多律師是大多數律師,當涉及到房地產的一些技術性更高的方面時,他們將具有相當程度的房地產知識,但仍然值得付出您角落裡的測量師可以幫助您了解如果您同意某個條款,這對您意味著什麼,某個條款可能意味著什麼?確保您完全了解該過程。而且我認為他們可以增加律師在這種情況下可能做不到的價值。

Darren:我明白了。因為就像,當我聽它時,這似乎是一項非常技術性的工作,並且它似乎需要的所有東西都需要大量的學習,大量的經驗和深刻的見解。房地產行業的很多人甚至可能都不知道。因此,您需要成為一名測量師,並且需要成為哪種執照?

Tom:再次,這取決於您想參加哪種測量,要成為哪個專業背景,要成為哪個專業團體。通常術語“測量師”與特許測量師一詞並列。因此,如果有人對您說,我是特許測量師,或者您看到的名稱是MRCS, FRCS的名字後面,表示他們是特許機構的成員。因此,這是原始的專業機構。它成立了,我認為是成立於1868年,所以它是一個相當老的機構,帶您回去很遠。因此要成為RICS的成員,首先我們必須獲得RICS認可的學位。現在,我認為這是很多想要進入房地產領域的人並不總是立刻意識到。所以這是我沒有意識到的我自己。所以我的大學本讀地理。好吧,實際上,如果您想成為一名特許測量師,並且想要盡快完成,那麼您需要認可的學位。因此,為了獲得RICS的認證,我隨後取得了房地產碩士學位。一旦知道了然後您需要找到工作。因此,您將從研究生測量師開始。通常,研究生測量師將在業務,以便他們可以看到,我想從事估值工作嗎?我想從事專業諮詢嗎?我想為代理商工作嗎?他們將有機會探索不同的事物業務領域。然後,當他們這樣做時,他們會不斷成長-我們稱之為APC日記。因此,APC是評估的專業能力。還有你的日記是您隨時隨地填寫的內容。因此,您必須在兩年內執行此操作。在兩年結束時,您可以進行APC,即評估專業能力。然後包括訪談和演講。在這次面試中,評估人員將決定,此人是否證明其職業和道德標準,以便成為特許測量師?因此,如果您做得很棒,那就太好了。您已通過並成為特許測量師。另一條路線,這是東西這對那些可能沒有專業經驗的人開放,對不起沒有獲得認可學位的人是專業經驗的途徑。因此,這將允許積累了一定年限的專業經驗,有機會直接進入面試過程。這樣一來,專家小組就可以決定他們迄今為止是否有足夠的經驗,以及他們是否具備所需的素質。有不同的路線,沒有RICS學位不一定就是終點但是對於進入這個行業的年輕人來說,這是最快,最容易的特許經營方式。

Darren:這實際上聽起來像是很多工作。當您大聲說出來時,我就像:“哇,真高興我不必走那條路,因為我知道這是技術性的。” 我不是喜歡你的人,只是讀書和讀書知道它是如何工作的。它確實需要大量的專家經驗和學習,並且真的很擅長。所以,你知道,這是非常我不會說粗糙,這更像是房地產行業中一條有趣的途徑。有點酷。您知道,就像這次演出一樣,我確定您知道,適用於希望了解房地產,了解更多有關在海外或本地投資以及什麼是整個過程的最佳方法的投資者或人士。所以我想了解一下您的觀點,即房地產投資者在忽略與測量師的合作時會面臨哪些潛在風險?您知道,因為現在,我認為我們之前提到的問題是,在某些過程中,您將必須擁有一個。但是,成為顧問或擁有更長的團隊來幫助您將非常重要。因此,我想就此發表您的看法。

Tom:是的,肯定的。因此,對我而言,投資或良好的投資是要盡可能地降低自己的風險。通常,對於風險較小的投資,例如,將您的資金投入高息收益賬戶,這是一個相當低風險的投資。因此,您的回報水平也將很低。我們在說一個可能%。有了房地產,您通常可以獲得收益。香港的收益非常低。但是,儘管如此,您還是會尋找獲得收益率在2.5%到10%以上之間。現在,收益越高,風險水平就越高。但如果您想嘗試並真正了解這項投資,我想說的最好的辦法就是聘請專業顧問。因此,這應該是熟悉當地市場,熟悉房地產類型並且能夠給您對那項特定投資的公正評估。因此,例如,也許我們有一個客戶-假設情況,我們有一位客戶打算在泰國購置房產。現在他們可能會看一下屬性並認為“這太棒了。它每年為我們提供9.5%的收益。這看起來像是招募了一些好租戶。這是一棟漂亮的新建築。哪裡出問題了?” 好吧,實際上,有可能會出錯。最初的測量師,他們會去研究為您準備的物業,看看物業周圍地區發生了什麼。例如,可能正在進行一些嚴重的基礎架構工作,這將影響在未來幾年內該物業的可及性。如果您查看租戶資料,他們可能有空缺的市場知識顧問,並說:“嘿,您的主租戶已經進入了在過去六個月中尋找新房產。“現在,除非您開始與專業人士交談,否則您通常不會擁有這些信息。現在,如果您與一般房地產經紀人交談,他們可能會告訴您這樣的事情,以試圖說服您購買或不購買財產。如果您正在聘請測量師,並且正在聘請專業人士,那麼您應該能夠更多地依賴該信息。如您所知,驗船師沒有隱藏的議程。他們向您很清楚開始。如果他們存在利益衝突或沒有利益衝突,那麼就不應該為您行事。但是通常,如果他們為您活躍,他們就不會。這樣您就可以確信他們正在給予您沒有偏見和獨立的建議。這樣可以幫助您制定購置房產的策略。因此,您現在可以看一下,然後說:“好吧,有40%該物業在未來18個月內可能會空置,市場情況如何?”而且,驗船師將能夠與他們合作,說,實際上,在過去六個月中,諮詢量下降了20%。我們看到租金在下降,並且在過去幾個季度中下降了5% que on que,我們的預測是,在接下來的兩個季度中,它們還將繼續下降。這樣您就可以開始建立更多詳細說明是否進行投資的方法。這使您可以做一個適當的評估。可能是,一旦您在閒置期間建立了建築,一旦您建立了租金下降,又在考慮了所有其他因素之後,一旦得出了最終數字, 驗船師可能會說,嗯,實際上您是在以1,000萬泰銖的價格購入這處房產。實際上,我們只考慮該物業的價值為700萬泰銖,尤其是如果您想要達到8-9%的收益率。因此,它可以幫助您降低投資風險。 驗船師還可以發揮其他作用。因此,您可能同時僱用了建築測量師和商業測量師。建築測量師可能會說,嗯,我已經看了一下,我看了看建築,建築物內有幾種有害物質,或者建築物內有一些固有缺陷。和雖然目前可能不是問題,但在未來五到十年內,這可能會成為更多問題,並可能需要大量的資本支出來解決。所以它也需要更長遠的時間,並希望在這段時間內您的費用將會增加。因此,您可以看到一開始,投資者可能會看一下投資並認為這很棒,但是如果他們再深入一點,他們可能會開始看到一些問題,一些隱性成本以及一些他們將必須要做的事情在接下來的幾年中克服。因此,對我而言,這是向投資者提供他們需要的所有信息,以使我們更加清晰和盡可能透明的決定。這確實是測量師的價值。而且我見過很多人去買房而沒有去過的地方適當地了解了該物業,沒有採取正確的建議,這是回來對他們進一步造成傷害。他們賺的錢不如他們本來可以做的,否則他們最終會虧本。

Darren:當然。我想,如果每天用牙線剔牙,人們會感覺很像。人們知道他們只是忘了它。所以很明顯希望這種類型的視頻能夠幫助人們提醒他們,嘿,也許您應該考慮與一個人或團隊中的某個人交往,以便做出更好的決策。然後,我將切換回您正在使用的更熟悉商業設置權。測量師可以對投資產生什麼樣的影響?

Tom:顯然,有在您打算購買房地產之前,他們將做初步工作,而我們剛剛介紹了該房地產。然後,還有財產的持續管理。所以測量師或測量公司,因為您將使用不同的部門或不同類型的測量師來執行此工作,因此將能夠為您管理財產。他們將能夠找到新的租戶。他們將在這里為您提供市場上其他地方的建議。例如,出售類似的建築物最近。您是否看到某些租戶想要四處走動?市場上發生了什麼?它將幫助您真正了解發生了什麼,並真正為您提供做出詳細決策所需的信息。所以什麼時候關於董事會會議,您必須非常清楚,非常簡潔的細節才能準確地了解正在發生的事情。因此,您可以做出最佳決策。角色之一,但房地產經紀人經常會在代理方面模糊不清。為機構使用測量師與使用測量師有很大不同房地產經紀人。首先,關於驗船師的其他專業和道德要求,他們不能為您服務,或者如果有必要,他們就不能工作。有利益衝突。因此,您知道,他們為您所做的一切都將符合您的絕對最大利益。他們給你的建議不是讓你做一個決定。他們不是要從您那裡賺錢。為您做出最佳決策。我認為對我來說, 是測量師的基本素質。人們繼續與測量師交流的原因是信任程度和透明度。

Darren:我知道,到目前為止,顯然在整個問題中,您都列出了一些驗船師可以提供幫助的方式。您介意嗎,因為像很多人一樣,可能需要對如何遍歷以及一切進行一些解釋。你介意做一個講解一個或兩個場景,說明人們如何以及為何需要與測量師互動,並假設有一個基金,或者,您知道有家族辦公室的人。

Tom:好的,所以我想一個例子可能是一家擁有幾座商業辦公樓的基金。他們是研究他們應該如何使用這些屬性。他們應該堅持嗎?他們應該賣嗎?如果出售它們,應該出售一兩個還是全部出售?因此,我想說的是,如果您曾經擔任過這個職位,那麼最好的辦法就是直接與測量師交談。驗船師將能夠進入並為您提供該信息。它的最初的工作方式,我想說,您在此階段可以做的最好的事情是,或者第一步是獲得完整的評估完成所有屬性。因此,這應該使該基金能夠說,好的,這是我們的財產。如果我們要在市場上出售它們,這就是它們的價值。當前市場。這樣一來,您可以查看如果出售該物業的潛在回報。我要說的第二階段是整個市場,一個市場評估,某種程度上看市場上正在發生的事情,看其他可用的東西。所以驗船師可以與他們一起說,好吧,如果您出售了這些房產,您可能會希望重新部署大量資本。現在您可以考慮將其重新部署到本地市場。我們為您找到了一些機會。並且會為他們提供屬性列表和詳細信息潛在回報。有關我們如何考慮這些特定投資的風險,如何看待該資產的詳細信息隨著時間的流逝。那麼,我們是否認為它可能受到高空缺的威脅?我們看到正在建造新建築物嗎可能會參與競爭,從而使該基金說:“好吧,如果我們確實賣出,這就是我們可以做的。 改為購買。”這不僅可以擴展到本地市場,還可以擴展到更國際化的規模。因此,這可能是一個基金請香港我們為他們研究一下。我們說,嗯,您是否考慮過在馬來西亞投資?我們可以將它們與我們位於世界各地的專家將能夠幫助他們了解該市場上的可用產品。所以這是給他們的。我們不是在說他們做出哪個決定。我們正在向他們提供數據。我們正在為他們提供他們所需的信息,以便他們開始做出這些決定。現在,回到估價報告中有關估價的方面,我們通常也會就物業內可以做什麼提供建議為了幫助保留其價值或提高其價值。所以我們可能要說的一件事是當前的平均值租賃期限很短。因此,如果我們出售房產,而您只能說出未來六個月的當前收入水平,立即開始為投資者敲響警鐘。鑑於我們可以對他們說,如果從目前的情況來看,平均租賃時間為兩年,如果我們擴展其中一些關鍵租戶,希望將他們與新租約捆綁在一起,也許將他們捆綁更長的時間,可能長達三年可能會對您的整體價值產生影響。您甚至可以為他們提供租金折扣,以使他們簽訂更長的租約。而且那仍然會增加的價值,因為它提高了投資者對收入水平的了解程度。因此,它也幫助他們在那裡放置資產。所以說,如果您確實處置了這項資產,您可以通過這種方法確保其在市場上處於最佳位置,以實現最高的價格。那如果你說對,那就是。我們要出售這兩個屬性。然後,您可以重新帶這個測量師,以幫助您出售財產。因此,這將是合適的營銷計劃,將其發送給他們可能知道目前在市場上的各方,並幫助賣方為商品爭取最佳價格。屬性。然後,一旦完成,他們可以再次與他們合作,確定我們現在將資金移至何處?我們將這筆資金用於什麼?所以這是關於向他們提供所有建議和指導,並確保他們掌握了做出決定所需的所有信息。,然後確保他們做出的任何決定都得到了建議,以確保他們將自己定位在最佳位置,從而實現目標最好的,他們可以做到的最好的結果。現在,在重新開發方面,測量師還可以扮演其他角色,研究即將開展的工作。香港的探戈舞總是很有趣的。許多建築物可以重建實現更高的銷售價格。這可能也是客戶最初沒有考慮的事情,但這可能是我們提供給他們的事情。所以說實際上目前該物業的價值為20億港元。但是,您有機會重新開發此資產,並且有一棟最近重新開發的建築物就在街對面,規模差不多,現在價值40億港幣。因此,也許他們然後與他們一起進行重新開發資產,以使他們擁有最大的可能。他們已將特定屬性的價值最大化。

Darren:我認為您在整個繪畫方面做得很好因為現在,我敢肯定每個人都會像現在一樣,我理解了差異,然後聽起來您就像也是投資者非常緊密的聯盟喜歡如何使資產更好,投資更好並且思考得更好。顯然,決策仍在投資者的角度。但是您可以在每一個地方為他們提供支持旅程。因此,您對自己的工作以及測量員的整體做了很好的繪畫,這些年來,行業是如何發展的?然後你知道我們倆了解Property Tech及其功能。您對技術如何改變其整體前景有何看法?

Tom:因此,僅簡要介紹一下我們的職業歷史。因此,驗船師實際上是在古埃及發現了驗船師一詞的首次使用。因此,測量師在埃及時代開始工作。當尼羅河每年洪水氾濫時,他們幫助繪製了土地圖。然後當洪水退去時,他們幫助繪製了誰或哪個特定農民將擁有哪個特定土地的地圖。這就是調查開始的方式。然後甚至直到200年前,這仍然是測量師的主要角色。這是關於測繪土地。這與註冊所有權有關。現在,當工業革命發生時,您看到了更多的商業建築。所以直到那時商店肯定是,但通常情況下,商店是某人房屋的底樓。你真的沒有工廠大廈。您將擁有農場,但沒有工廠。和概念那時的辦公室仍然相當抽象。因此,當工業革命發生時,您開始在商業建築的開發方式中看到更多。然後,為了滿足這些建築物的所有者的需求,也進行了測量。首先,工廠,辦公室不管是誰,有一天會佔領這座建築物,但後來他們開始意識到,好吧,我們想要遷移到一家更大的工廠,但我想抓住這個工廠,嘗試尋找新的租戶。這就是調查真正開始發生變化的地方, 在這方面變得更具交易性,也更具諮詢性。那確實是商業測量的誕生。現在,作為行業,為了適應技術變化,測量一直很慢。來自曾經非常高興的老闆告訴我標準的一天將如何開始,他們都坐在市長房間裡閒逛了兩個小時。我的一些前同事,尤其是年長的同事,他們所做的大部分工作仍然是筆和紙。他們仍然喜歡使用捲尺,量尺。他們沒有繼續前進我想說的是最近的事態發展。但是實際上,激光測量,計算機輔助設計之類的東西已經存在了很長時間。但仍然,特別是在我們最年長的測量師中,仍然不願意正確地接受這一點。今天我們仍然看到它。我會說,利用技術,勘測落後於許多其他部門。現在,我不確定到底是什麼原因。我在香港也不得不說,這似乎是一個特殊的問題。我會說香港也許還沒有完全以與世界上其他一些地區相同的方式接受了所有變化。但是展望未來,我認為技術具有巨大的潛力來嚴重破壞我們的工業。因此,最近我們一直在進行評估,例如進行評估,其中一件事是您可以開始看到更多東西,然後您開始在世界其他地方看到是自動評估模型。因此,從本質上講,這些就是您會在許多網站上看到的內容,您可以免費獲得一份,只需輸入屬性地址和詳細信息,它為您提供了一個粗略的價值,其中自動變化模型採取了進一步的步驟。所以,再次,您付出所有有關您財產的詳細信息,然後在10分鐘之內,它可以為您提供相當準確的估價。所以我看到有報導說他們已經設法以95%的準確度獲得了自動振動模型。我沒有爭議,我認為肯定會開始發生更多的事情。但是該技術仍在追趕。它仍在嘗試將所有評估屬性值可能需要的所有微妙之處。但這將嚴重改變我們評估屬性的方式。對於投資者來說如果他們能在10分鐘內得到一個數字,那麼他們就不用花兩週的時間來聘請測量師事務所為他們進行評估,盡量減少所有這些人為錯誤,這將是一個主要的吸引力。另一面是我們代理。 因此,我們已經看到了虛擬代理的興起。因此,目前這些還沒有採取任何物理形式。完全是基於在線。但是我看過一些地方,您外出時,手機上有虛擬座席,您可以說:“哦,嘿該物業在隔壁賣了什麼?”虛擬代理將配備所有可用的交易信息。建立到該數據庫中,他們可以說,哦,去年該物業以這個價格出售。現在,通常,如果輸入property的命令誰向您展示周圍的人,都應該能夠大致告訴您隔壁將出售哪些物業。但是要獲得這項服務,要有人掌握所有信息, 您有記錄的單筆交易,這是非常有價值的。這些電子代理商可以24/7全天候使用。他們有100% 回調記錄。因此,確實,這將大大改變我們買賣房地產的方式。現在,這是否意味著像我這樣的人,人類測量師?不,絕對不是。我當然希望不會。我認為仍有房地產。真實房地產仍然是很多關係驅動的。而且我認為永遠都會如此。因此,我認為這些技術變革將有助於稱讚行業,並且將有助於也要提高我們的標準。它們將幫助我們最大程度地減少一些錯誤,並幫助我們提高效率。但是就估值而言,是的,估值的很大一部分是科學的,但估值也仍然是一門藝術。而且我不確定計算機模型是否能夠完全抓住了這一點。他們可能會做。但是我的想法是他們不會。因此,我認為對於人類測量師來說,總會有一個角色,但是技術無疑具有的巨大潛力,可以改變我們所知道的行業。 

Darren:是的。我的意思是,例如,有很多類似的產品可以方便AVM等測量員使用就像我記得當我聽說它的時候一樣,我就像“這太棒了,難以置信”。但是行業中的許多人會認為,嘿,可以在某些市場上使用AVM。不是所有的人。並不是所有的資產類別,商業廣告除了它之外沒有太多可比性。住宅區比較容易,但即使是重新分區或新開發項目也將大不相同。同時,有演習和一切。但是我相信驗船師有點像,神經元太多了,你不能只是擁有一台電腦就說,嘿,這是最好的結果。我相信有時會有更多的神經元不屬於其中一部分-因為我們共同的朋友加里(Gary)擁有一家名為inflow的創業公司。所以我看到了關於全球測量標準的客座帖子。對此感到遺憾,國家財產管理的標準,對此感到抱歉,然後您會介意向觀眾解釋這是怎麼回事,因為我對此很陌生,在行業中似乎是一個很大的話題。

Tom:是的。絕對。首先,我將簡要介紹一下您剛才說的內容關於AVM在香港某些市場也能更好地工作的情況,我們非常幸運。市場非常透明。有很多可比較的信息。其他市場也一樣,澳大利亞,英國也是如此。一些透明度較低的市場中的透明度很高的市場像菲律賓,越南,柬埔寨,緬甸。根本找不到任何可比較的信息。即使你做到了,你也不會對此充滿信心。您永遠不要拿到可以為這類市場找到的比較信息,並依靠它。這就是再次具有潛力的地方。它有潛力,但是仍然有很多問題。然後繼續討論下一個有關國際財產計量標準的問題。我將其稱為IPMS簡短。少說幾句,但實際上又是關於透明度和市場上可用的信息。所以在全球化之前,我想說沒關係,因為不同的市場會有一定的測量標準和測量建築物的方式已使用。很好,因為通常您不需要像今天一樣詳細地了解其他國家和市場。 我們現在遇到的問題是,如果您負責該指令,則是一家大型跨國公司的真正國家主管,則您負責屬性遍布全球。而且,如果您要比較的是房地產,通常我們首先要考慮的是房地產它有多大?多少平方英尺?每平方英尺多少錢?我可以租用每平方英尺租金,甚至可以低至其他運營成本通常會表示運行成本,您可能會說,運行這棟特定建築物的價格為每平方米30美元。一切都帶回大小。您需要多少空間?它再次下降到平方英尺。但是我們發現的問題之一可能是在最近才發現的10,15年前。但是他們看著-他們走的是同一棟辦公樓,完全一樣的地板。他們有來自世界各地的各種專業人士嘗試測量建築物並說出建築物的大小。他們發現,兩者之間的未報價區域相差25%專業人士,這是巨大的,這確實是巨大的。甚至不知道如何決定房地產和財產提供最基本的信息,使您能夠做到這一點。我們在市場上發現的是有人會來找我們,他們會說,好的,我們有100人,在英國,每100平方英尺有1人。所以這就是我們需要很多空間。但是,當您開始尋找空間時,可能是英國的市場規模比您所尋找的市場大25%在。因此,您實際上可能佔用的空間太小25%。而且我們已經看到這成為一個問題。你看到的是對於企業來說成本很高,因為它們無法從一開始就讓所有員工都適合辦公室,然後他們最終不得不搬一次,所以他們花了所有的錢去辦公室,然後他們在他們不得不繼續尋找更好,更大的建築物之前,只能在那裡租用一個租期。因此,為了幫助他們做出公平競爭的決策,入了真正的全球測量標準的想法開始了人們的生活自2016年1月起僅在辦公室設有辦事處。因此,到目前為止,我們還沒有看到大量的採用。但是如果您與特許測量師交談,這是他們會非常熟悉的事情,並且特許測量師應該能夠為您提供建築區域使用IPMS資產,因此它們應該能夠查看您在不同國家/地區的兩座建築物,並為您提供一致的測量標準,然後您就可以使用該標准進行決策。現在,我認為這對香港也很重要的原因之一,在香港尋找辦公場所時,您可以很快就對房東使用什麼測量基礎感到困惑。您會看到一些房東說這間辦公室的總面積為10,000平方英尺。這是10,000平方英尺的字母Bo。無論他們要使用哪種測量基礎,這都是1萬平方英尺。這是相當在大多數其他市場上是香港獨有的。使用相同度量基礎的所有房東不一定使用IPMS,但他們將使用相同度量基礎。但是在香港,比較某些建築物可能非常困難,因為它們是以不同的方式進行測量的。這絆倒了很多這裡的住戶也是如此,因為他們可能會說,好吧,我們看著這幢大樓的10,000平方英尺,所以在這幢大樓中必須相同。現在,這完全取決於他們使用的測量基礎。您可能會想,因為得到了租金,他們可能會說這是每平方英尺20港元。這棟建築的價格為HK $ 100每平方步行,想一想,這間便宜的建築物真是太好了,但實際上可能並非如此。您可能會為實際可實際使用的空間支付更多費用,因為他們使用的基準測量。因此,IPMS的真正意義在於提高透明度,讓居住者和決策者確切了解他們實際上在建築物中有很多空間。因此,這是非常重要的一步。

Darren:我知道,這聽起來很重要,對嗎?因此,假設您在整個行業中擁有大型的,廣為人知的廣播或聲音,那麼您如何告訴他們該標準將如何影響行業?我想問您更多有關您為什麼認為它尚未實施的問題?因為這聽起來像驗船師的觀點,所以聽起來甚至很合乎邏輯當我聽到它的完整描述時,到目前為止聽起來很合乎邏輯,但是到目前為止還沒有被採納嗎?

Tom: 是的,所以我認為IPMS是一項舉措。所以也許不是RICS的人最初的成員會喜歡哦,這不適用於我,我不需要使用它。甚至是RICS的人成員也是如此。目前仍然很難實施。其中很多都歸結為教育。所以許多客戶會說我們一直使用這種衡量基礎,這對我們來說很難向投資者解釋為什麼該地區突然發生變化,您現在告訴我,該物業比我們想像的要小10%。這就是困難。我認為那是作為測量師的角色之一是幫助提高我們客戶之間的意識,並向他們展示其好處,幫助他們感到更多也許對使用它感到舒適。還很早。正如我所說的,房地產行業的技術可以抗拒更改。因此,我認為這是您將開始看到更多前進的東西。儘管所有房東都可能需要一段時間使用此功能,可能永遠不會到達房東使用此功能的階段。但是我們應該處於一個位置,如果您僱用了特許測量師,他們將能夠為您提供建議。它們將為您提供正在查看的建築物的IPMS測量結果。他們可能需要自己重新測量。如果該信息不可用,但是應該向您提供這些信息,以幫助您做出決定。

Darren:我明白了,所以,我想今天您涵蓋了很多非常重要的信息,這些信息涉及測量師的工作,其未來,可以做什麼以及為什麼這樣做重要嗎?拿什麼您想讓觀眾擁有嗎?無論如何,也許會有散戶投資者,家族理財室。您為他們找到最佳的測量師或聘請測量師幫助他們的投資有哪些技巧?

Tom:謝謝,因此,首先,您需要確保您選擇的是正確的測量師。現在,測量師應該能夠分辨你馬上就走。例如,如果有人打電話給我說,嘿,我在尋找一些建議,我想在紐約購買一家購物中心澳大利亞,我會直截了當地說:“看,我沒有知識來協助您。但是,我可以將您推薦給具有該知識的同事。”因此,您要確保您使用的是正確的測量師,因此測量師應告訴您但是請查看他們的背景,他們所基於的位置以及他們的往績。看一下他們過去參與過哪些項目。確保您有最好的人為您提供建議。的這是絕對的關鍵,就是和他們聊天。解釋您期望的結果是什麼樣的。因此,測量師應該從一開始就對您說。好的,您目前的現實是什麼?您目前所處的位置是?現在您想要的現實是什麼?您希望它看起來如何?一旦我們走了通過項目,他們應該能夠在此為您提供一些信息,然後提供有關它們如何幫助您從當前現實變為理想現實的信息。但是我認為這實際上取決於專業知識。如果您沒有使用真正的專家。你不會得到全部物有所值。因此,您確實需要確保使用的人合適。而且我認為可能很難找到,但是通常,您想找到某個人在您正在工作的市場中,或者在該市場中有往績記錄。

Darren:我明白了。我的意思是,這就是 Denzity想要做的事情,因為我們認為,如果我們擁有更多的不同專家,例如不同類型的測量師,不同的經驗,不同的專業知識,那麼人們將花費更少的時間進行分類以找到專家。而且不會與您發生誤解或脫離接觸有人無法幫助您嗎?因此,對我來說,這總是很明顯的,很有意義,但很多投資者卻傾向於這樣做。所以我想說聲謝謝您的這段時間這是非常有用的信息,對於可能想要找到您的受眾群體,與您更多地談論您的服務,您如何建議他們與您聯繫?

Tom:是的,絕對是。所以我在 Linkedin上,所以您可以搜索Tom Parker MRICS。是。或Tom·帕克·科利爾(Tom Parker Collier),您應該以這種方式找到我。同樣,您可以給我發送電子郵件。總是非常響應電子郵件,並樂於與人們交談,即使他們也只是對如何進入該行業有疑問。所以我的電子郵件是Tom.Parker@Colliers.com。它們可能是聯繫並找到我的兩種主要方法。我確實為其他來源製作了大量的媒體,但本人目前不在社交媒體上。 

Darren:好的,很好。所以我將把所有內容都包含在演出記錄中,我想說聲謝謝您的光臨,這是我的榮幸,希望第二集可以再次加入我們,也許我會得到加里一起討論測量的未來,以及不同的觀察方式,再次感謝您的寶貴時間。謝謝。 

Tom:沒問題。謝謝,Darren。非常感謝。乾杯。

Darren:謝謝,再見。

Tom:再見。

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FAQ when purchasing Vietnam real estate

Vietnam real estate market is one of the favorites of Hong Kong investors. The property in Vietnam is relatively low yet it has great potentials.

When considering an investment in the oversea property market, Hongkongers tend to choose somewhere cheap and somewhere near, making the South East Asia property market a very popular choice. Among common choices like Malaysia real estate market and Thailand real estate market, Vietnam real estate market is one of the favorites of Hong Kong investors. The property price in Vietnam is relatively low yet the market has great potentials. Here are some of the FAQs about real estate equity investment in Vietnam.

Q: Can Hong Kong citizens purchase Vietnam real estate?

A: Yes and no. It is okay for foreigners to purchase real estate in Vietnam, yet foreigners cannot purchase the land. In other words, foreigners can only have land use right, but not land ownership. However, with more and more foreigners investing in Vietnam real estate market, the limitations concerning real estate equity investment for foreigners have been more lenient.

Q: Where can I find a real estate agent for Vietnam real estate equity investment?

A: To suit the needs of foreign investors, most Vietnam real estate agencies can be found online. However, some of the sites do not provide an English or Chinese translation, so there may be some communication barriers. In that case, you can check out Denzity’s directory to look for Vietnam real estate experts. With the brand-new search filters, you can easily sort out real estate experts who specialize in Vietnam real estate market.

Q: What kind of taxes and fees do I have to pay when investing in Vietnam real estate market?

A: It is more or less the same as in Hong Kong. Investors have to pay value-added tax and registration tax for ownership. If you intend to let your property out for rent, you also have to pay personal income tax. To ensure you don’t miss any important fees, you’re advised to consult a Vietnam real estate expert. Where to find one you ask? Denzity has an extensive selection of real estate experts all over the world specializing in different sectors like tax, rental issues, and even feng shui. We’re sure you can find one that suits your needs.

Q: Can I do a mortgage in Vietnam banks?

A: No. It is shockingly hard for foreigners to apply for a mortgage in Vietnam unless you’re married to a Vietnam citizen, or have oversea Vietnam citizenship. The most common practice will be an installment plan. Vietnam banks usually require buyers to travel to Vietnam and hand in the documents by person. Remember to keep all the bank records to protect yourself.

Q: Can I let my property for rent in Vietnam?

A: Yes. Yet if you’re in Hong Kong, note that the currency used in Vietnam VND is not a major currency in Hong Kong, so when you transfer the money back to Hong Kong, you may need to pay a higher transfer fee. This also applies to all the fees you have to pay when purchasing Vietnam real estate. Some of the banks and agencies don’t even accept USD. Do check twice with your real estate expert and compare the fees of different money transfer channels before you decide which one is the best for you.

Purchasing Vietnam real estate market is indeed a good investment choice. Yet, with the language barriers, it is preferred to find a real estate expert in Hong Kong specialized in Vietnam real estate market to assist you along the purchase process. Go to Denzity today and start your real estate equity investment journey!

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Featured on am730: Hong Kong Properties Are Seriously Unaffordable For Millennials

Original post on [In Chinese]: https://www.am730.com.hk/column/Workplace/%e7%b5%82%e6%a5%b5%e6%b5%b7%e5%a4%96%e7%89%a9%e6%a5%ad%e6%8a%95%e8%b3%87%e6%8c%87%e5%8d%97-232085

Hong Kong Properties Are Seriously Unaffordable For Millennials

Hong Kong people would agree that the dream of owning a home is challenging for most millennials. On top of the land shortage, the increasing cost of living has taken away millennials’ dream to save up for their dream home. Even though this news wouldn’t surprise many people, how bad has the situation become? According to the annual Demographia Housing Affordability Survey, Hong Kong is the most expensive city to live in – 10th consecutive years! The status is unlikely to be toppled soon. A Hong Kong family would need to save up for almost 21 years, which is around twice the time needed for the runner ups, to afford a home in the city. What’s worse? Our Hong Kong Foundation, a think tank established by former chief executive Tung Chee-Hwa, predicts the average flat size will contract further to less than 430 sq. ft in the next few years, accounting for 45 percent of private housing supply in 2019. Imagine a 400 sq. ft space is roughly the size of a typical two-car garage – there is barely any wiggle room left with a kitchen, bathroom, and a single-bed mattress!

These conditions not only have caused bad living standards for millennials but their financial status is also in a tough situation. According to Numbeo (a research and data site), a single Hong Kong person’s monthly cost is no less than HKD 8,000. With an average monthly rent of more than HKD 10,000 for a 400 sq. ft flat, millennials might only have a few thousand left for savings. With all the increasing expenditures for daily necessities and expensive living costs, millennials barely save any to invest in Hong Kong real estate. It is time to rethink, “Is there a better place to invest in real estate?”, and “Is Hong Kong suitable for real estate investments?”

With social unrest and the COVID-19 pandemic, Hong Kong millennials grow interests in Southeast Asian real estate markets, such as the Malaysia real estate market and the Vietnam real estate market. They feel Southeast Asian countries have a better economic environment, while barriers to participating in real estate investing are lower than most emerging markets. According to Global Property Guide, the average price per sq. ft in Hong Kong is HKD 20,570, while average prices per sq. ft in Malaysia and Vietnam are HKD 2,480 and HKD 1,643. Purchasing a Hong Kong property costs almost ten times more expensive than that in other Southeast Asian countries! No wonder that Hong Kong millennials have decided to look elsewhere.

Hong Kong millennials must realize that there are plenty of real estate investment opportunities outside of Hong Kong waiting for them to discover. With the rise of PropTech, investors can now be more accessible to global real estate investment opportunities and have a better-informed decision to put their hard-earned savings to work. With our platform (https://denzity.io/), we let investors focus on what matters most: getting a better sense of where, what, and how to invest in real estate worldwide that they have never thought of before effortlessly.

香港80後嚴重付不起物業

香港人會同意夢想擁有房產對於香港80後非常困難的。除了土地短缺,生活成本的上漲更是奪走了80後為自己夢想家園儲蓄的夢想。雖然這些都不會讓很多人驚訝,可是情況會變得有多差?根據每年Demographia Housing Affordability Survey,香港連續十年成為生活最昂貴的城市!而且,這情況近期不會被推翻。一個香港家庭需要儲蓄21年才能在自己城市負擔起自己的房子,是其他國度城市人需要的兩倍時間。團結香港資金,一個前特首智董建華創立的囊團,預計未來幾年平均單位面積將縮小至430平方英尺以下,佔2019私人住房供應的45%。想像一個400平方英尺的空間相等於兩個標準車庫 — 裝進廚房、浴室和單人床床墊後也幾乎沒有擺動空間!

這些條件不但導致80後生活水平惡劣,而且在財務狀況也面臨嚴峻問題。根據Numbeo,一位香港人每月費用不少於 HKD 8000。對於一個400平方英尺的房子,平均每月租金超過 HKD10000,80後可能只剩下幾千塊錢儲蓄。隨著日用指出昂貴和生活費用增加,80後不可能積蓄任何錢投資香港房產。是時候重新考慮:「有更好的地方投資房產嗎?香港真的適合房產物業投資嗎?」

因為社會動盪與新冠病毒大流行,香港80後對於東南亞房產市場感興趣,如馬來西亞與越南的房產市場。他們覺得東南亞國家的經濟環境比較好,而且投資房地產的門檻比起其他新興市場還要低。根據Global Property Guide,香港物業每平方英尺平均價格HKD 20,570,而馬來西亞與越南物業則每平方英尺平均價格分別為HKD 2,480和HKD 1,643。在香港購買物業的價格是東南亞國家的十倍!難怪香港80後決定把目光鎖定其他地區。


香港80後必須知道香港以外還有很多房產投資機會等待他們去發現。隨著房產科技的興起,投資者現在可以更方便獲得全球房產投資機會與作出更明智的決定,將辛苦積累的金錢投資。通過我們的平台(https://denzity.io/),投資者會專注最重要的事情:探索他們想投資什麼、投資哪裡、怎麼輕鬆的投資全球海外房產。

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Hong Kong Commercial Leasing with Cydon Choi


Hong Kong Commercial Leasing With Cydon Choi

Connect with Cydon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cydon/

We have Cydon to share his insights on Hong Kong’s commercial real estate leasing market. Even though the city has been undergoing a lot of ups and downs. He feels there will be many opportunities up ahead.

Cydon Choi is the Senior Manager at JLL. He advises international and local clients on strategy and negotiations in the Hong Kong commercial real estate space.

  • How is commercial leasing different from residential?
  • What do the landlords look for in a tenant?
  • Which areas are tenants more attracted to?
  • What is the future of the Hong Kong commercial leasing market?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Source:

Commercial leasing broker: A commercial leasing broker is basically a middle man that brings landowners and tenants together and assist them with the whole leasing procedure.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/businessideas/leasing-broker

COVID-19: Current ongoing global pandemic.

https://www.who.int/

Rental concession: A rental concession can be a gift, a discount or any kind of goods or services provided to the tenant from the landlord, out of a contract. It is usually for a short period of time.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/rental-concessions-4172961

Rental deferment: Rent deferment allows tenants to postpone paying rents to a certain period of time, under certain conditions.

Coworking: Coworking is a cost efficient way for workers from different companies to work in a shared office space.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/coworking

Coliving: Coliving is a concept typically adopted by the youth to live in a full-furnished residence with private rooms and shared common spaces.

https://coliving.com/what-is-coliving

Coretail: Coretailing is when entities share a space as a retailing store.

Subdivided apartment: The subdivision of flats or apartments into several units is known as a subdivided apartment.

https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/safety-inspection/ubw/UBW-in-sub-divided-flats/index_ubw_subflat_intro.html

Swire: https://www.swire.com/en/global/home.php

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Transcript:

Darren: So hey Cydon. Hey, how’s it going, man?

Cydon: Very good. Thanks.

Darren: Yeah. First of all, thanks for coming in. And then even for myself right, I have work in, you know, as a buy side in real estate – commercial space, but I have never understood, you know, for example your side of Hong Kong leasing, the scope and what’s going on there. So it’d be great to have you tell people, the audience – myself included more about what you do and what opinions you have with the markets currently.

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, first of all, do you want me to do an introduction of myself or just dive right into it?

Darren: Sure.

Cydon: Yeah. Well, my name is Cydon and thanks for having me, Darren. So I’ve been in the commercial real estate space for about almost coming up to four years now. Before Hong Kong, before I moved to Hong Kong four years ago, I working in fast moving consumer goods. So with companies like Unilever, Clorox, and then make the move to Hong Kong four years ago where I started in the commercial real estate space with with an agency called Colliers. And then right after about two years, I joined Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL), also in the commercial real estate commercial leasing side and so here I am today.

Darren: There you go. And here we are. So first of all right, would you mind telling the audience what’s the scope for commercial leasing agents? And what are the things that you would do to date?

Cydon: Sure, well as commercial leasing brokers, what we are essentially is we are the clients most accountable person all the way from the beginning to finding an office and to all the way to the end of actually leasing the space and coming back to the terms and the conditions of the lease. So what I mean by this is we start with a discovery process usually of identifying what is the client’s organization. So, for example, if you are a company or a subsidiary, what your needs are, what the amount of space you need is, what district, what building quality, what proximity to partners and to other clients of yours that you need be, needing to be close to. So these are all factors in the very beginning of the search and then throughout the process, we then help you short list. And then finally pick the short listed and final buildings for us to negotiate on. So the final process of this would be to actually negotiate and to actually come to the best and final terms and conditions for the clients. And then that will close out the transaction after they move in.

Darren: I see. So I’m sure a lot of audience might be more familiar with residential like they have their own house. You know, they have investments , they have that kind of residential leasing. So what are some key leasing terms that is different when comparing from commercial to residential?

Cydon: That’s a good question. Yeah, because we most of us are most familiar with residential leases just from our daily exposure. I’ll say one of the main differences is the length of the contract term. The most common contract term for residential leases that we find in Hong Kong usually are one year fixed and then plus one more year of what we call flexibility. And this just means a renewal. And then after this term, your contract is on a month to month basis with the landlord and for commercial leases, usually they are around two to three years at least – three years being the most common. And in terms of the actual terms, the conditions and the clauses within these contracts, the residential leases, usually around three or four pages, would cover most of the conditions that you would actually sign on to. For commercial leases, it’s a lot more complex and there’s a lot more terms and clauses that covers the liabilities and protects the liabilities of the landlords as well. And so they can range up to something like 80 to 100 pages even. So those would be the quickest differences, I would say, between these two.

Darren: I see. I see. Yeah, I’m sure like, if someone has stay for so such a long time, it’s not only a year or two years, maybe up to three, four or five, six years right. And then I guess the leasing is going to be more expensive as well. I’m sure the landlord will want to know more about the tenant, more covenants behind that. So, in that regard right, what are some key things that like a commercial landlord will want to know about the tenants?

Cydon: Well, let’s be honest. Number one most important thing is whether or not a tenant can pay rent on time. I’d say that’s probably most of their concern.

Darren: That’s the most important thing.

Cydon: Exactly. It all comes down to money at the end of the day. So that’s what we kind of mean when we say a tenants covenant. So how secure this tenant is within the market, within the office market and how secure their ability to pay rent is. So, this is definitely top of mind for a landlord when it comes to finding a tenant. But there are also several factors that come into play when a landlord considers a tenant. One of them being the tenant profile. So how reputable is their name? Are they right for the building? You know, if they are a banking client? Are you really going to go into a building that’s full of, let’s say, media and tech companies? That’s probably not the right fit as well. So the very background and the industry nature of the tenants is very important to the landlord. And also one more thing is the growth as well. Landlords do love tenants that naturally have more hunger for space overtime as they go because who doesn’t want a tenant inside that eventually just wants more and more space and ends up leasing more and more of the building over time. So this is also a scenario that the landlord will consider whenever they look for things like Forkan,.

Darren: So on regard of like for the landlord to understand if the tenant can pay or not right, what are some kind of documents would a tenant usually need to provide no matter what to a landlord in order to prove that tenant can pay the landlord?

Cydon: Right. So the two most important documents that are the most commonly accepted by the landlord is the B.R. and the A.R. B.R., being the business registration. This one, basically, any type of business entity in Hong Kong would have on file. The other one is the annual return or the A.R. So this document proves how much the share value is and how much income, how much cash flow and how cash positive a business is. So this is usually a crucial document that the landlord will use to decide whether or not this tenant has enough covenants or enough ability to actually pay rent for the long term. So this will be the most important.

Darren: So let’s say if the tenant is not from Hong Kong, don’t necessarily have B.R is there something that you know, I’m sure you have more experience than me, what kind of stuff do they need to supply – the tenants that maybe oversea tenants that say, “hey, that’s my first presence in Hong Kong and I really want some type of good space,” so what kind of stuff would the landlord ask for to make sure that, you know, even though you’re miles away from HQ I would still want to lease out to you if you’re comfortable with it.

Cydon: Yeah. So unfortunately the Hong Kong real estate industry is still very archaic in terms of the amount of paperwork and documents and a very traditional way of mailing and stamping documents. This is still very, very much prevalent in the Hong Kong real estate industry. So unfortunately for oversea clients that are coming to Hong Kong, what they will really need to do is to set up a presence in Hong Kong so they’ll actually need to register under the Hong Kong Companies Registry. So they have already a registered presence here in Hong Kong. What they can do, though, is because they haven’t conducted business in Hong Kong, they could use overseas support, for example, very simply how much cash they have in, you know, in their corporate accounts. If they can prove anything to the landlord that they are a cash positive commercial tenant, then the landlord might actually consider moving forward with a lease, even without concrete Hong Kong proof that they have, an account here or with anything. It very much is still a very archaic type of system here. So very traditional still.

Darren: I sense some anger in there. We’re talking about paperwork and archaic, so I can sense how annoying things are if that’s the case.

Cydon: That’s right.

Darren: Yeah. So moving on right because I have so many questions to be honest. Like I wish this video can go longer. There’s a couple of questions in my head. I mean I talk to you a lot, but there’s always questions I have with real estate right. So like,you know, we’re all kind of in recession right now. And you know, I’m sure a lot tenants which there are a lot of people that we know that have tenants or they’re leasing somewhere that needs help. What are some things that you think landlords can do to help tenants out a little bit?

Cydon: So, unfortunately, like I said before, the landlords here in Hong Kong are quite traditional. Usually they’re not very flexible when it comes to rental terms or what we call concessions or relief. But what we’re seeing after three months of protest and after months of the Corona virus situation is that more and more landlords are now a little bit more open to what we call rental concessions, which can include rental relief. So maybe temporarily reducing the rental to help businesses, you know, kind of go through the hard times. But also we have negotiated or are negotiating terms like rental deferments, for example. Rental deferments would include simply delaying a rental payment or delaying certain months of payments until a certain time when, you know, when the conditions of the market recover for the business. I mean, this is obviously done on a very case by case basis. It really depends on how flexible the landlord is and how sympathetic they are to a tenant situation. But it also depends on the tenants nature of business as well. If you’re a semi retail tenant but, you know, due to the Corona virus, you could not have anyone come and there is absolutely no revenue whatsoever, I believe that is a very strong case to plea to the landlord for rental relief. But if you are a company that you’re able to really work from home most of the time and you can function and still bring in revenue over the course of this virus situation with a protest situation, then perhaps the landlord would not have that much flexibility for you. But I mean, aside from these, though, I would say that landlords can do a few things here and there, even without adjusting the rentals. Things are, for example, even simply as freezing or controlling the management fees. The management fee is something that every tenant in the building will have to pay. And usually this is by a per square foot basis that’s fixed. So something like a fixed costs like this, the landlord might be able to that’s a temporarily reduce it or control it so that at least the tenant will be able to to stabilize their costs over hard times. But I guess the other most important thing is that landlords should continue to upkeep their buildings as well to make sure that, you know, that right amount of talent and the right amount of traffic are still going into the building and out of the building because this is the only way for a business just to continue to bring in revenue. So I believe if landlords are able to do most of these or are at least flexible in some of these, then this will really help out some tenants during tough times like a recession.

Darren: Yeah, it sounds you know, like how we are in Hong Kong for the past one year almost, right? Yeah. It has been a really tough time. It’s really tough. So, you know, I’m sure landlords wants to have rental income and everything, but I think you need some help for the tenant, because that’s how we work together in Hong Kong. You know, join forces and stuff like that. So like I know that Covid-19 has a big topic. Everyone really uncertainty because they don’t know what’s going on. But beside that or include that, how do you feel the leasing market have evolved since you have been around for quite some time in this industry? I just want to know your opinion because no one really talks about, you know, the broker side or the leasing side, what’s going on, you know, how are these things turning to be or even outlook in the future, how is going to be?

Cydon: Right. I mean, this is a very, very complex situation that we’re in. There are so many underlying factors that are so variable in the market right now. But there are a few things that I think are going to prolong the sustainability of the Hong Kong – sorry, Hong Kong commercial real estate market. One is that even through any type of political or virus situation, such as what we just saw with the global financial crisis before and what we saw with the SARS virus before, hong Kong has always had a very quick recovery to these type of outbreaks or these type of significant events. And so I really don’t think that the Corona virus situation or the protest situation is really anything different. If anything, this might be a more prolonged nature of it. And the other thing is Hong Kong will still remain an important hub for commercial transactions and activity. A lot of MNC still think that Hong Kong is one of the best places in Asia to have their headquarters or APAC headquarters and also the developers here in Hong Kong are also very bullish on the outlook of Hong Kong. So not only are they cash rich, they are able to invest a lot and continue to invest in buildings and building up new projects and new infrastructure in the city. I mean that coupled with the fact that Hong Kong will always have a lack of land as one of the major issues being said, there are going to be many, many more creative ways that I believe developers will be able to develop projects. One of the things is that there are many concepts outside in the world right now in different cities where certain buildings are no longer purely for residential or purely for commercial. Some of them are, you know, cold living or coworking. And then some of them will have different types of amenities, all in the same building. So these are two types of new concepts that Hong Kong has the potential to explore. And Hong Kong has the potential to actually invest and built these type of developments. And so I think the leasing market will evolve to the point where a broker would not simply be just brokering an office space in an office building. We might be selling an entire type of different type of environment. The office might be within a coworking space, which is within a building which has co-living elements or different type of retail elements with different type of wellness elements, all within one giant type of an ecosystem, more environment. And I think this is where the leasing market might evolve to in the near future.

Darren: That’s cool. So it seems like what I’m getting at is that the asset itself, tend in the past tend to be a really specific type. For example a building might be pure residential, pure, you know, retail or whatever. But then obviously there are different types of tenants now. There are coworking, co-living and there’s a mixture of stuff, and the ecosystem now, it seems like the buildings have their own ecosystem to help each other so it’s no longer to be one type, you know, vanilla, just plain one type of asset. So with that right, because I know that everyone talks about coworking space, you know, the whole Wework thing and so on. It’s something that I’m sure like, you know, we’re all just guessing, what’s going on as feelings. In your point of view right, in Hong Kong co-living is a really big topic with the housing problems and stuff like that. I know you’re in commercial real estate, but kind of touched together, how do you feel about that industry, like getting along in the next couple years and then do you think those mechanisms are going to save Hong Kong or help Hong Kong a little bit on leasing?

Cydon: See co-living, I know there have been many types of developers and different types of businesses that have tried to launch co-living spaces here in Hong Kong. Some of them have been successful, but most of them have not. And I believe one of the main reasons is because the concept of co-living is still very foreign to a city like Hong Kong. And also the fact that, yes, land cost is extremely expensive and therefore the per square footage of whatever living space you’re living at will be extremely expensive either way. So I believe the cost differential between a regular, let’s say, subdivided apartment really wouldn’t be that different from a co-living type of environment. So, I mean, do I see co-living, you know, like skyrocketing out into a trend very quickly? I don’t think so. I think this will be a much more slower trend to develop here in Hong Kong when Hong Kong locals and expats start developing an appetite or at least an open mind to this type of concept.

Darren: So that’s co-living, how about like coworking or co-retail in Hong Kong. How do you feel about that?

Cydon: I think coworking definitely has a lot of potential here in Hong Kong. However, coworking spaces usually you attract two type of tenants. One is for startups. So for smaller startups who need office space immediately, but do not have the, let’s say, upfront capex to actually fit out a brand new office and to commit to a to a lease term, let’s say, for three years for a traditional office. So this will be a good target as well. And you know, they can range from one or two people as a business up to maybe like five or ten. And the other type of tenants that would be going to coworking spaces would be and what we call enterprise clients. So they might your HSBCs, they might be your standard charter. They might be these subsidiaries of these banks that focus on let’s say on technology, on media, on digital. And these are the type of teams that would actually take up a lot of space within the coworking, within the coworking operator, which is what Wework has done in the past here in Hong Kong. It’s unfortunate that Wework, the expansion was so quick that I believe in the past year a lot of its expansion had to be halted and had to be held back in the last few months. But I do believe that the demand is still there. We just do not have the same growth in terms of startups as some of the mainland cities like Shenzhen, for example. In terms of the explosive growth of the number of startups, Hong Kong is still lagging behind and so this is one of the major sources of the demand for coworking spaces. So I think, yeah, this is unfortunately, Hong Kong might not be the the most bullish market in terms of coworking spaces.

Darren: How about co-retail really quick? Just because it’s something that I felt a lot people, you know, we know local people who has done that kind of space before and I just want to know co-retail because it seems like no one really tapped into that market or there hasn’t been any boom going on.

Cydon: Right. So co-retail, unfortunately, it started picking up actually about two or three years ago when pop ups became a relatively new concept that people were open to. Unfortunately, again, the Hong Kong market is very traditional and a lot of businesses are very scared to try new concepts. We’re not we’re not a very forward thinking city. So unfortunately, some of these spaces might be empty for many months, even though it’s completely open for these type of co-retail concepts. But again, over the last couple of years, there hasn’t really been a very strong open mind or appetite for this type of space. So this is something that, again, Hong Kong will have to start educating and maybe providing incentives for these type of businesses to try out these type of co-retail concepts and find out for themselves that there are actually benefits to reap from these type of concepts.

Darren: Yeah, after listening to you, in my mind it’s like, I guess it’s time for the landlord to be like “hey, let’s try something new. Let’s help each other,” you know like, you never know it’s still wild wild west in my mind, right? So I have one more question left and then just more about, you know, talk more about something that I’m sure you are aware of, what are some areas in Hong Kong that you think tenants are more attracted to? And what type of new tenants are coming in for the past couple years or possible months or even you think foreseeable couple of months?

Cydon: Right. I think there are two districts in Hong Kong that are the hottest topic whenever it comes to commercial leasing, and that’s Hong Kong Islands East and also Kowloon East. So Hong Kong Island East would be where Tiku type of places. It’s basically where Swire’s kingdom is. Why we call Swire’s kingdom is because Swire basically owns all the commercial property within the entire Tiku Place portfolio, but also the City Plaza portfolio, just one station away. The reason why this is a district to kind of pay attention to is because there are so many new commercial developments there. There are brand new buildings coming out, basically every one or two years in this district, all managed and owned by Swire, all operated by Swire. So you understand that Swire is a very reputable landlord with very, very high quality specifications in all of their buildings. So this is a very, very attractive type of offering for office tenants looking for brand new relocation options. The most important part is its proximity to away from central or Admiralty. I mean, we’re talking a few stations away and even by car it’s only about ten to fifteen minutes max. So it’s a no brainer why there are so many tenants that are moving eastward into this type of district. And some of the major sectors that have moved in here includes legal so some of the law firms that are traditionally in Central and Admiralty actually have moved eastward into Tiku place. Some other traits include some financial institutions that normally would be in Central and Admiralty, but again, have found a place and found the Swire’s Tiku Place portfolio to be a very, very attractive relocation option. The other district would be Kowloon East.

Cydon: So Kowloon East was the second district that I mentioned. The reason why I mentioned Kowloon East is because there are many brand new triple grade A buildings that are being built in that area and landlords are offering very attractive incentives and packages to tenants that are willing to relocate to that area. So Kowloon East more specifically would include Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, which are always and always happen very traditionally industrial areas not really known for its offices. So this area actually had many years over the past little while to actually build up a reputation, to have some of the best office buildings in the city. The most important part, too, is the rental difference, really between the options in Highlands East and Kowloon East, because you have central rents that are averaging over HK$100, let’s say per square foot for a grade A building. And then if you move a little eastward into Highlands East, then you’d be paying maybe around HK$50 per square foot, that’s already half the price, and if you move over to districts like Kowloon East, which includes Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, you might be slashing that by half again to around let’s say HK$25 even tops, at tops HK$30 a square foot. And again these are brand new office buildings that are very high in specifications. So yeah, I think these are the two districts to really look out for.

Darren: It’s funny because like Swire right, whenever I go there. I’m just like “this whole area is a Swire kingdom,” when you said it’s a Swire kingdom I was like “Yes, that’s true. But I love Swire kingdom – I’m like a fanboy, like their stuff is really good. No, it’s so convenient. Everything around the area is like – I feel like I should get advertising costs from them, but I really like the area. I hope so. I don’t get paid for it for sure. But I think there’s a lot of interesting things that we covered up. What kind of take away would you want to give to the audience before you go?

Cydon: I would say one would be, despite everything that has happened in the past, in the past year, that has really shaken the confidence of a lot of investors and on a lot of people in Hong Kong, especially when it comes to the real estate market, is that there really is no doubt that Hong Kong real estate will still have a lot of value to play in the future because there is still a lot of potential here. The factors I mentioned before, such as lack of land, we also have very ambitious landlords with very deep pockets and also the ever changing, ever evolving, working and living demands of the people that are here in Hong Kong, but also coming in and out of Hong Kong. I mean, these many factories will keep driving many exciting initiatives that I think are going to happen in the commercial real estate space, especially when it comes to new developments and new concepts that will emerge over the next few years. So it is an opportunity and it is up to us, the next generation, to kind of step up and create these opportunities and kind of lead the city with it.

Darren: For sure. That’s a really good take away. Thank you. That was actually really good. So for the audience that wants to know more and reach out to you to learn more about the Hong Kong leasing markets, how would people reach out to you and talk to you and stuff like that?

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn. There really should only be one Cydon Choi that works at JLL, so it should be relatively easy to find.

Darren: I don’t think there will be another Cydon Choi out there so I think you’ll be fine.

Cydon: I really hope so. I really don’t think so. You’re right. So yeah, you can feel free to find me on LinkedIn, shoot me a message, or if you have any specific inquiries regarding commercial real estate spaces or any needs. You can also email me at my JLL email, which I’ll provide to Darren afterwards. And also, there are some good resources out there that are from JLL but also from other big agencies such as CBRE, Colliers. And we always will include quarterly reports and we send it to any type of tenants and we send it to the bottom market. I think these are very good resources to learn about different sectors of commercial real estate space as well. They can include office, retail, industrial, if you’re a residential person, yeah these things will be really good resources to kind of reference upon.

Darren: Yeah, if you don’t mind, I think I after this recording I’ll ask you for some kind of links and everything. And then I just want to say thanks a lot man. Thanks for coming in and then thanks a lot for telling me and the audience more about what’s going on because it’s something in our minds like not everyone thinks about real estate every day, but for people who do, you know, they think about it like, “Oh, my God. What’s going on out there? What’s the place to go?” So I really appreciate your time and thanks so much for being part of the show.

Cydon: No problem. Thank you for having me Darren, Cheers.

Darren: Yeah, thanks so much and have a good one then. See you later.

Cydon: You too, take care.

Darren: Bye bye.

Darren:嘿,Cydon。你好嗎?

Cydon:很好。謝謝。

Darren:是的。首先,謝謝你加入。甚至對我自己來說,在房地產行業做買家-商業房地產空間,但我從來就不瞭解,你知道,例如,你在香港的租賃,範圍和發生了什麼。你能告訴我就太好了人們,觀眾-我自己也包括了更多關於你現在做什麼和你對市場的看法。

Cydon:當然。是啊。首先,你想讓我做一個自我介紹,還是直接投入進去?

Darren:當然。

Cydon:是的。好吧,我叫Cydon,謝謝你邀請我,Darren。我一直在商業房地產的空間差不多要到四年了。在香港之前,在我四年前搬到香港之前,我快速移動消費品。囙此,與Unilever、Clorox這樣的公司合作,然後在四年內轉移到香港之前,我在一家名為Colliers的仲介公司開始了商業地產領域的工作。大約兩年後,我加入了仲量聯行(Jones Lang LaSalle)[JLL],也在商業地產商業租賃方面,我今天就來了。

Darren:現在。首先,你能告訴觀眾商業租賃代理的範圍是什麼嗎?你會做些什麼?

Cydon:當然,作為商業租賃經紀人,我們本質上是客戶最負責任的人,從開始到找到辦公室,一直到實際租賃空間和返回租賃條款和條件。我的意思是我們從一個發現開始識別客戶組織的過程。例如,如果你是一家公司或子公司,您的需求是什麼,您需要多少空間,什麼區域,什麼建築質量,離合作夥伴有多近和其他你需要的客戶,需要親近的客戶。所以這些都是蒐索開始時的所有因素然後在整個過程中,我們會幫助您完成短名單。最後挑選出最終的候選建築供我們談判。所以最後的過程是進行真正的談判並最終達成客戶。然後在他們搬進來之後就結束了交易。

Darren:我明白了。所以我相信很多觀眾可能更熟悉住宅區就像他們有自己的房子一樣。你知道,他們有投資,有那種住宅租賃。那麼,當從商業租賃到住宅租賃時,哪些關鍵租賃條款有所不同?

Cydon:這是個好問題。是的,因為我們大多數人對住宅租賃最熟悉,僅僅是從我們的日常接觸。我要說的一個主要區別是合同期限的長短。最常見的契约條款我們在香港發現的住宅租賃通常是一年固定的,然後再加上一年的彈性。以及這只意味著續約。在這個期限之後,你和房東的契约是逐月的商業租賃,通常至少為2-3年,最常見的是3年。從實際情況來看條款、條件和這些契约中的條款,住宅租約,通常大約有三到四頁,將涵蓋大部分條件您將實際登入的。對於商業租賃來說,這要複雜得多,而且有更多的條款和條款包括責任和保護房東的責任。所以它們的範圍甚至可以達到80到100頁。所以我想說,這將是這兩者之間最快的區別。

Darren:我明白了。我懂了。是的,我確信,如果有人在這裡住了這麼長時間,那就不僅僅是一年或兩年,也許最多也就3年、4年或5年、6年了。我想租賃費也會更貴。我確信房東會想瞭解更多關於房客的資訊,以及背後的契約。那麼,在這方面,像一個商業房東[00:05:10]想瞭解房客的一些關鍵事情是什麼?

Cydon:好吧,說實話。第一件最重要的事是房客能否按時付房租。我認為這可能是他們最關心的問題。

Darren:這是最重要的。

Cydon:沒錯。歸根結底都是錢。所以這就是我們說的房客的意思契約。所以這個租戶在市場上,在辦公大樓市場裏有多安全,他們支付租金的能力有多安全。所以,對於房東來說,這絕對是找房客的首要考慮。但是當房東認為是房客。其中一個是租戶檔案。那麼他們的名聲有多好?他們對大樓合適嗎?你知道的,如果他們是銀行客戶?你真的要去一個充滿媒體和科技公司的大樓嗎?那可能不太合適也是。所以租戶的背景和行業性質對房東來說非常重要。還有一件事也是增長。房東確實喜歡房客,他們自然更渴望加班加點他們之所以這樣做,是因為誰不想讓一個最終只想擁有越來越多空間、最終租賃越來越多房屋的租戶入住。所以這也是房東在尋找像福肯這樣的東西時會考慮的一個場景。

Darren: 所以對於房東來說,為了讓他們瞭解承租人是否能够支付或不正確,承租人通常需要什麼樣的檔案向房東提供任何東西,以證明承租人可以向房東付款?

Cydon:對。所以房東最普遍接受的兩個最重要的檔案是商業登記證和商業登記證。這一家,基本上是香港任何類型的商業實體孔會被立案的。另一個是年收益率或A.R.所以這份檔案證明了股票的價值一個企業有多少收入,多少現金流,有多積極。所以這通常是房東將要用於確定承租人是否有足够的契約或足够的能力支付長期租金。所以這將是最重要的。

Darren:如果房客不是香港人,就不一定有B.R。你知道嗎,我相信你比我更有經驗,他們需要提供什麼樣的東西?那些租客可能會說,“嘿,這是我第一次來香港,我真的想要一些類型的東西好的空間,“那麼房東會要求什麼樣的東西來確保,你知道,即使你離總部幾英里遠,如果你對它感到舒適,我還是想租給你。

Cydon:是的。不幸的是,香港房地產業在大量的文書工作和檔案以及非常傳統的郵寄和蓋章管道。這在香港房地產業。囙此,對於即將來港的海外客戶來說,不幸的是,他們真正需要做的是在香港設立辦事處,以便他們真正需要在香港公司注册處注册。所以他們已經在香港注册了。他們能做什麼,不過,因為他們沒有在香港開展業務,所以他們可以利用海外支持,例如,他們有多少現金在他們的公司帳戶裏。如果他們能向房東證明他們是現金充裕的商業租戶,那麼房東可能會考慮繼續租賃,即使沒有具體的香港證明,他們在這裡有帳戶或有任何東西。它在這裡,很多仍然是一種非常古老的系統類型。還是很傳統的。

Darren:我感覺到裡面有些憤怒。我們討論的是文書工作和古董,所以如果是這樣的話,我能感覺到事情有多煩人。

Cydon:沒錯。

Darren:是的。我有很多問題要問。我希望這段視頻能放得更長。我腦子裏有幾個問題。我是說我和你談了很多,但我對房地產總是有疑問。所以你呢知道嗎,我們現在都處在經濟衰退之中。你知道,我相信有很多房客,我們知道有很多人有租客或者他們租了個需要幫助的地方。你認為房東可以做些什麼來幫助房客解决一些問題?

Cydon:所以,不幸的是,就像我之前說的,香港的房東很傳統。通常他們在租賃條件上不太靈活或者我們所說的讓步或救濟。但是在三個月的抗議和數月的日冕病毒事件之後,我們看到的是現在越來越多的房東對我們所說的租房優惠政策更加開放,包括租房减免。所以也許吧暫時降低租金以幫助企業渡過難關。但我們也已經協商過了例如,談判租金延期等條款。租金延期包括延遲支付租金或延遲支付租金某些月份的付款,直到某個特定的時間,你知道,當市場的條件恢復業務。我是說,這個顯然是在個案基礎上完成的。這實際上取決於房東有多靈活,以及他們對房客有多同情情况。但這也取決於租戶的業務性質。如果你是一個半零售租戶,但是,你知道,由於冠狀病毒,你可以沒有人來,也沒有任何收入,我認為這是一個非常有力的理由,可以向房東請求减免租金。但如果你是你可以在家裡工作的公司,你可以在這種病毒的情况下,在抗議的情况下,仍然可以繼續工作並帶來收入,那麼也許房東對你沒有那麼大的靈活性。但我的意思是,除了這些,我想說房東可以在這裡或那裡做一些事情,即使不調整租金。例如,事情甚至是簡單的凍結或控制管理費。管理費是大樓裏每個租戶都必須支付的費用。通常這是以每平方英尺為基礎的,是固定的。像這樣的固定成本,房東也許可以暫時降低或控制它,這樣至少承租人可以在困難時期穩定成本。但我想另一件最重要的事是房東應該繼續維護他們的建築,以確保,你知道,適當數量的人才和適當的交通量仍然在進出大樓,因為這是企業繼續帶來收入的唯一途徑。所以我相信如果房東有能力要做到這一點,或者至少在其中一些方面保持靈活性,那麼在經濟衰退等艱難時期,這將真正幫助一些租戶。

Darren:是的,聽起來你知道,就像過去一年我們在香港的情况一樣,對吧?是啊。這段時間真的很艱難。真的很難。那麼,你呢我知道,房東希望有租金收入和一切,但我認為你需要一些幫助來幫助房客,因為這就是我們在香港的合作方式。你知道,聯手什麼的。所以我知道Covid-19有一個很大的話題。每個人都不確定,因為他們不知道發生了什麼。但除此之外,你覺得租賃市場在這個行業已經有一段時間了,有什麼變化?我只想知道你的意見,因為沒人會說話關於,你知道,經紀方還是租賃方,發生了什麼,你知道,這些事情會變成什麼樣子,甚至是未來的前景,會怎麼樣?

Cydon:對。我是說,這是一個非常非常複雜的情况。市場上有太多的潜在因素是如此多變現在。但我認為有一些事情會延長香港的可持續性——對不起,香港商業房地產市場。其一,即使在任何一種政治或病毒的情况下,例如我們剛剛看到的全球金融危機[00:14:40]和我們之前看到的非典病毒,香港對這類或這類疫情的恢復總是非常快的重大事件。所以我真的不認為柯洛納病毒事件或者抗議事件真的任何不同的東西。如果有的話,這可能是一個更持久的性質。另一方面,香港仍然是重要的商業交易中心活動。許多跨國公司仍然認為香港是亞洲設立總部或亞太區總部的最佳地點之一香港的開發商也非常看好香港的前景。所以不是只有現金充裕,他們才有能力大量投資,並繼續投資於建築和新建房屋都市的項目和新的基礎設施。我的意思是,再加上香港永遠會有土地不足的問題儘管如此,我相信開發人員將能够開發專案,但會有許多、許多更具創造性的方法。其中之一就是現在世界上有很多概念,在不同的都市,某些建築不再是純粹的住宅或用於商業。他們中的一些人,你知道,共生活或是共事。然後他們中的一些會有不同類型的設施,都在同一棟樓裏。所以這是兩種新的香港有潜力探索的概念。而香港有潜力投資興建這些類型的發展項目。所以我認為租賃市場將發展到這樣一個地步:經紀人將不僅僅是在辦公樓裏代理辦公空間。我們可能是銷售一整套不同類型的環境。辦公室可能在一個共同工作空間內,即在一個有共同生活元素或不同類型的建築內具有不同類型健康元素的零售元素,都在一個巨大的生態系統中,更多的環境中。以及我認為租賃市場在不久的將來可能會發展到這一點。

Darren:太酷了。所以我想說的是,資產本身,過去往往是一種非常特殊的類型。例如,一座建築可能是純淨的住宅,純,你知道,零售或其他什麼。但顯然現在有不同類型的房客。有共同工作,共同生活,還有各種各樣的東西生態系統現在,建築似乎有自己的生態系統來互相幫助,所以它不再是一種類型,你知道,(基本),只是一種簡單的資產。就這樣是的,因為我知道每個人都在談論共同工作空間,你知道,整個Wework之類的事情。我肯定是這樣的,你知道,我們只是猜測,什麼是感覺。在你看來,在香港,同居是一個非常大的話題,住房問題之類的。我知道你在商業地產,但有點感動,你覺得怎麼樣行業,比如說在未來幾年裏,你認為這些機制會拯救香港還是在租賃方面幫助香港?

Cydon: 看合作空間,我知道有很多類型的房地產開發商和不同類型的企業嘗試在香港推出合住空間。其中一些成功了,但大多數沒有成功。我相信其中一個主要原因是,對於香港這樣的都市來說,同住的概念還是很陌生的。還有一個事實,是的,土地成本極為昂貴,囙此,無論您居住在哪個居住空間,每平方英尺的成本都將非常昂貴不管怎樣。所以我相信普通的,比如說,細分公寓的成本差真的不會是不同於共同生活的環境。所以,我的意思是,我看到同居,你知道,像飛漲很快就成為潮流?我不這麼認為。我認為,當香港本地人和外籍人士開始對這類概念產生興趣,或者至少對這類概念持開放態度。

Darren:這就是同居,不如在香港一起工作或共同零售。你覺得怎麼樣?

Cydon:我認為在香港,共事肯定有很大的潜力。然而,共同工作空間通常會吸引兩類租戶。一個是創業公司。所以對於較小的初創公司需要立即提供辦公空間,但卻沒有,比如說,前期資本支出,無法實際安裝一個全新的辦公室,並承諾從a到比如說,傳統辦公室的租賃期為三年。所以這也是一個很好的目標。你知道,他們可以是一兩個人做生意大概五到十歲。而其他類型的租戶會去共同工作空間,我們稱之為企業客戶。所以他們可能是你的HSBC,可能是你的Standard Charter (Bank)。他們可能是這些銀行的副公司,專注於科技、媒體、數位。這類團隊實際上會佔用大量的工作空間合作運營商,這是我們過去在香港所做的工作。不幸的是,我們的擴張如此之快,以至於我相信在過去的一年裏,它的許多擴張都不得不停止,並且在過去的幾個月裏不得不被遏制。但我相信需求仍然存在。我們只是在創業方面沒有像深圳這樣的內地都市那樣增長。在就創業公司數量的爆炸式增長而言,香港仍然落後,囙此這是共同辦公空間需求的主要來源之一。所以我認為,是的,這是不幸的,香港可能不是最牛市的共同工作空間。

Darren:那麼合作零售真的很快嗎?只是因為這是我感覺到很多人,你知道,我們知道,當地人誰做過這種空間,我只想知道聯合零售,因為似乎沒有人真正進入這個市場,或者沒有任何繁榮。

Cydon: 對。所以,不幸的是,聯合零售在兩三年前就開始流行起來了,那時彈出式廣告成為一個相對較新的概念,人們對此持開放態度。不幸的是,香港市場非常傳統,很多企業都非常害怕嘗試新概念。我們不是我們不是一個很好的前鋒思考之城。不幸的是,這些空間中的一些可能會空置數月,即使它對這些類型的聯合零售概念。但是,在過去的幾年裏,人們並沒有真正的開放思想和”胃口”對於這種類型的空間。囙此,香港必須再次開始教育,並可能提供激勵措施,鼓勵這類企業嘗試這些類型的聯合零售概念,他們自己會發現,實際上從這些類型的概念中可以獲益。

Darren:是啊,聽了你的話,我想是時候讓房東說“嘿,我們試試新的吧。讓我們互相幫助,“你知道嗎,你永遠不知道在我的腦海裏,這還是一片荒蕪的西部,對吧?所以我還有一個問題要問,你知道,多談一些我相信你知道的事情,有哪些方面你認為租客更喜歡香港?在過去的幾年或幾個月,甚至可能會有什麼樣的新房客入住你認為可以預見的幾個月?

Cydon:對。我想香港有兩個區是最熱門的話題談到商業租賃,這是香港群島東部和九龍東部。所以港島東邊會是提庫式的地方很多地方。這基本上就是太古王國所在的地方。我們之所以稱太古王國,是因為太古基本上擁有整個提庫的所有商業地產Place portfolio,還有City Plaza portfolio,僅一站之遙。之所以這是一個值得關注的地區,是因為有這樣的地方那裡有許多新的商業開發專案。在這個地區,基本上每一到兩年就會有嶄新的建築問世,都是由太古,都是太古經營的。所以你知道太古是一個非常有信譽的房東,他們所有的建築都有非常非常高的質量規範。囙此,這是一種非常非常有吸引力的服務類型,適用於尋找全新搬遷選擇的辦公室租戶。最重要的是它離中環或金鐘較近。我是說,我們在幾站以外的地方即使是開車,最長也只有10到15分鐘。所以不難想像為什麼會有這麼多租客向東進入這類地區。以及一些主要部門已經轉移在金鐘有一些律師事務所搬到了這裡地點。其他一些特徵還包括一些通常位於中環和金鐘的金融機構,但它們又找到了一個位置,並且發現太古的Taikoo Place組合是一個非常非常有吸引力的搬遷選擇。另一個區是東部。所以九龍東是我提到的第二個地區。我之所以提到東九龍是因為在那個地區有許多嶄新的甲等建築,房東們提供的非常多對願意搬遷到該地區的租戶提供有吸引力。所以九龍東區更具體地說包括九龍灣和觀塘,這兩個地方一直都是非常傳統的工業區,並不真正為人所知辦公室。所以這個地區其實有很多年過去的一點點時間,實際上建立了一個聲譽,有城裡最好的辦公大樓。最重要的一點,也是租金的差异,實際上是在高地東部的選擇和九龍東,因為你們的中心租金平均超過100港元,比如說甲級建築每平方英尺的租金。然後如果如果你向東移動一點到高地東部,那麼你可能要支付每平方英尺50港元左右的價格,這已經是價格的一半,如果你搬到像九龍東,包括九龍灣和觀塘,你可能會把這個數位再削减一半,比如說最高25港元每平方英尺30港元。這些都是全新的辦公樓,規格非常高。所以是的,我認為這是兩個值得注意的地區。

Darren:這很有趣,因為就像太古,每當我去那裡。我就像“這整個地區是一個太古王國”,當你說它是一個太古王國時,我就像“是的,這是真的。但我喜歡太古王國-我就像一個粉絲,喜歡他們的東西真的很好。不,太方便了。周圍的一切都像-我覺得我應該得到廣告他們的費用,但我真的很喜歡這個地方。我希望如此。我拿不到錢。但我認為我們掩蓋了很多有趣的事情。你想在離開之前給觀眾什麼樣的建議?

Cydon: 我想說的是,儘管在過去的一年裏發生了很多事情,但這確實動搖了很多投資者和香港很多人的信心,尤其是當說到房地產市場,毫無疑問,香港房地產仍然有很大的價值可以發揮因為這裡還有很多潜力。我之前提到的因素,比如土地缺乏,我們也有很有野心的地主香港人的財力非常雄厚,他們的工作和生活需求也在不斷變化,不斷變化,不斷變化離開香港。我的意思是,這些工廠將繼續推動商業地產領域的許多令人興奮的計畫,尤其是在未來幾年內出現的新發展和新概念。所以這是一個機會,這取決於我們,下一代人,要站出來創造這些機會,並以此引領都市。

Darren:當然。這真是個不錯的建議。謝謝您。那真的很好。囙此,對於那些想瞭解更多、接觸到你、瞭解更多香港租賃市場的觀眾來說,人們會如何接觸你並與你交談之類的事情?

Cydon:當然。是啊。我是說,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我。真的應該只有一個Cydon Choi在JLL工作,所以應該相對容易找到。

Darren:我不認為會有另一個Cydon Choi,所以我想你會沒事的。

Cydon:我真的希望如此。我真的不這麼認為。你說得對。所以,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我,給我發個簡訊,或者如果你有任何關於商業地產空間或任何需求的具體詢問。你也可以在我的JLL郵箱給我發郵件,那之後我會提供給Darren。此外,還有一些很好的資源來自JLL,但也來自其他大型機构,如CBRE、Colliers。我們總是會包括季度報告,我們會發送它發給任何類型的房客,我們把它送到最低價市場。我認為這些都是很好的資源來瞭解不同行業的商業地產空間以及。它們可以包括辦公、零售、工業,如果你是一個居住的人,是的,這些東西將是非常好的參攷資源。

Darren:是的,如果你不介意的話,我想在錄完這段錄音之後,我會要求你提供一些連結和所有的東西。然後我只想說謝謝,夥計。謝謝你的光臨然後感謝您告訴我和觀眾更多的關於正在發生的事情,因為這是我們心中的一件事,不是每個人每天都在思考房地產,但對於那些這樣做的人,你他們會這樣想,“哦,天哪。外面發生什麼事了?去什麼地方?”所以我真的很感謝你的時間,非常感謝你能參加這個節目。

Cydon:沒問題。謝謝你邀請我,Darren,乾杯。

Darren:是的,非常感謝,祝你玩得愉快。回頭見。

Cydon: 你也是,保重。

Darren:再見。