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Denzity Insights – Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

In the previous episode, we covered many aspects regarding real estate market research. Today, Anthony will share his insights regarding a different segment: the Hong Kong industrial market and the emerging interest in data centres.

  • Data Centre: Rising Demand 
  • Converting Buildings Into Data Centre
  • Hong Kong Data Centre – the comparative advantage

▶ Connect with Anthony:

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-wong-8ba67080/

▶ Source & Supporting:

Data Center – https://www2.colliers.com/en-HK/Research/Colliers-Radar-The-future-landscape-of-the-Hong-Kong-data-centre-market

RVD statistics – https://www.rvd.gov.hk/en/property_market_statistics/index.html

Buildings Digest – https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/whats-new/monthly-digests/index.html

Land Sale – https://www.landsd.gov.hk/en/landsale/index.htm

RCA – https://www.rcanalytics.com/

Data Centre: A data centre is an enclosed space where everything related to data is stored and handled inside a mass number of computers, devices through many servers and networks.

https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberpedia/what-is-a-data-center

5G: 5G is the abbreviation for the 5th generation, which refers to the 5th generation of the mobile or cellular networks.

https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/5g/what-is-5g

Land acquisition: It is the process by which the government can take over land or property that is privately owned and utilize it for other purposes, especially for public benefits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUtV3lo6Lg

Lease modification: It is the newly made changes in a lease that weren’t initially included in the agreement.

https://xplaind.com/510063/lease-modifications

Trunking: Trunking is the method that is used to accumulate multiple networks into a single one.

Town Planning guidelines:

https://www.info.gov.hk/tpb/en/forms/guideline.html

Power Supply: In simple words, it is an electrical device that supplies power.

Personal data ordinance: https://www.pcpd.org.hk/english/data_privacy_law/ordinance_at_a_Glance/ordinance.html

Wholesale Conversion: https://wholesaleconversion.com

Equinix: https://www.equinix.com

Sunevision: https://www.sunevision.com

Grand Ming: http://www.grandming.com.hk/cht/

industrial revitalization 2.0: https://www.landsd.gov.hk/en/reIntBuild/index.htm

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Darren Wong: [00:00:00] So Anthony, welcome back again.

王達倫:【00:00:00】【00:00:00】安東尼,歡迎再次光臨。

[00:00:02] Anthony Wong: [00:00:02] Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It’s good to talk to you again, really.

[00:00:02]安東尼·王:[00:00:02]好的,謝謝。謝謝您。很高興再次和你交談,真的。

[00:00:07] Darren Wong: [00:00:07] I mean, we do two shows and stuff like that.

[00:00:07]Darren Wong:[00:00:07]我是說,我們做兩個節目之類的。

[00:00:10] So the previously we’ve done a show just now about the research, for the audience who would be interested in learning how to do

[00:00:10]所以我們剛才做了一個關於這個研究的節目,給那些有興趣學習如何做的觀眾

[00:00:20] better research on locally or overseas investments. And then would you mind telling the audience who just jumped in without that context before about yourself? And then the episode before that,

[00:00:20]更好地研究本地或海外投資。那麼,你能告訴那些在沒有背景的情况下跳進來的觀眾關於你自己的事嗎?然後是之前的那一集,

[00:00:30] like, what’s that about?

[00:00:30]比如,這是怎麼回事?

[00:00:32] Anthony Wong: [00:00:32] So yeah, Hey, guys, everyone. If you haven’t checked out a video with Darren, please do check it out again. We talked about

[00:00:32]安東尼·王:[00:00:32]所以是的,嘿,各位。如果你還沒有和達倫一起看視頻,請再看一遍。我們談過

[00:00:40] how to invest real estate proactively and in-depth. So once again, I’ll introduce myself, I’m Anthony Wong. I’m currently a research manager at Colliers

[00:00:40]如何積極深入地投資房地產。所以,我再次自我介紹一下,我是黃東東。我現在是高力的研究經理

[00:00:50] International. I have an education background and real estate postgraduate degree, and have work experience in Greater China, US and now in Hong Kong. And I’m happy to give

[00:00:50]國際。我有教育背景和房地產研究生學位,有大中華區、美國和香港的工作經驗。我很樂意付出

[00:01:00] a little humble opinion about data centre, because this topic is really changing by the date. So really, can give out whatever I can take,

[00:01:00]對資料中心有一點謙虛的看法,因為這個話題確實會隨著日期而改變。所以真的,我能拿什麼就給什麼,

[00:01:10] and whatever I can get, and give my real estate research perspective on this topic, and pleasure to talk more about it.

[00:01:10]以及我能得到的任何東西,並給出我對這個主題的房地產研究的觀點,以及如何才能更愉快地談論它。

[00:01:17] Darren Wong: [00:01:17] Yeah, and for the audience that didn’t check out

[00:01:17]Darren Wong:[00:01:17]是的,對於那些沒有退房的觀眾來說

[00:01:20] the resource episode with you, please check it out. Because I think is a very good way to understand what it takes to learn about different assets. And in terms of how to

[00:01:20]資源集和你一起,請看一下。因為我認為這是一個很好的方法來瞭解瞭解不同的資產需要什麼。以及如何

[00:01:30] do research and everything like that. And then we decided to do a data centre episode, because it’s something that I mentioned in the previous episodes that a lot of my friends are looking into, it’s a very, very hot

[00:01:30]做研究之類的。然後我們决定做一個資料中心的插曲,因為這是我在前幾集裏提到的,我的很多朋友都在關注它,這是一個非常非常熱門的話題

[00:01:40] topic, it’s very exciting. So I’m just very happy that you’re able to be here and share with us. So let’s kickstart right away. Why is data centre segment become

[00:01:40]主題,非常激動人心。所以我很高興你能來這裡和我們分享。所以我們馬上開始吧。資料中心細分市場為何成為

[00:01:50] such a hot topic recently?

[00:01:50]最近這麼熱門的話題?

[00:01:53] Anthony Wong: [00:01:53] Yeah, I mean, data centre is becoming a hot topic, not just in APAC, but globally. I think it’s because of the

[00:01:53]Anthony Wong:[00:01:53] 是的,我的意思是,資料中心正在成為一個熱門話題,不僅在亞太地區,而且在全球範圍內。我想是因為

[00:02:00] global awareness that in the future, AI and technology and data usage is going to be a huge demand. And on top of that,

[00:02:00]全球意識到,在未來,人工智慧、科技和數據使用將是一個巨大的需求。除此之外,

[00:02:10] starting even a couple years back, data centres is already a growing kind of real estate sectors and technology sector and APAC region.

[00:02:10]從幾年前開始,資料中心已經是一個不斷增長的房地產行業、科技部門和亞太地區。

[00:02:20] This year with the COVID-19, lots of people are staying home, and they’re starting to be aware of the the demand side of what are the technology they

[00:02:20]今年有了COVID-19,很多人都待在家裡,他們開始意識到他們所使用的科技的需求方面

[00:02:30] can make, use and make leverage up when being at home, working from home either entertainment or working. And also work from home,

[00:02:30]在家、在家工作時,無論是娛樂還是工作,都可以發揮、利用和發揮杠杆作用。也在家工作,

[00:02:40] these technologies, how are they shaping their lifestyle, right? So from the management side of these data centres, and from the investment side, it’s really

[00:02:40]這些科技如何塑造他們的生活方式,對吧?囙此,從這些資料中心的管理方面,從投資方面來看

[00:02:50] changing by the day. So it’s really complex topic. And it’s something real estate practitioners, a lot of them themselves are getting themselves adjusted

[00:02:50]每天都在變化。所以這是一個非常複雜的話題。而這是房地產從業者,很多人自己也在調整自己

[00:03:00] to this sector. And as you know, TikTok just purchased a European data centre in Ireland yesterday, they’re going through a lot of US complications, but

[00:03:00]到這個區域。正如你所知,tick tock昨天剛剛在愛爾蘭購買了一個歐洲資料中心,他們正在經歷許多美國的複雜情况,但是

[00:03:10] they’re still investing quite a lot. And increasing cloud services, 5G implementation, a lot of

[00:03:10]他們仍在大量投資。以及不斷增加的雲服務,五張紙的實現,很多

[00:03:20] companies and countries and regions are heavily dependent on this technology and will be for a lot of emerging economies. According some of the market projections,

[00:03:20]企業、國家和地區對這項科技的依賴程度很高,很多新興經濟體也會如此。根據一些市場預測,

[00:03:30] APAC will have about 13.5 billion network devices, connections by 2023. Now from 8.6 billion in 2018, so that’s 5

[00:03:30]到2023年,亞太地區將擁有約135億臺網路設備和連接。現在是2018年的86億,所以是5

[00:03:40] billion of change. And also, the number of internet users will grow from 2018 2.1 billion to 3.1 billion in 2023. So

[00:03:40]十億的變化。互聯網用戶數量也將從2018年的21億增長到2023年的31億。所以

[00:03:50] the amount of data that’s related to that rusty said, was quite large, something that real estate practitioners who have to get into in the future.

[00:03:50]與rusty所說的相關的數據量相當大,這是房地產從業者今後必須涉足的領域。

[00:04:00] [00:04:00] Darren Wong: [00:04:00] Yeah. When I was three, four years ago, and then I’ve looked into it because of a friend of mine that was considering that, “hey,

[00:04:00][00:04:00]Darren Wong:[00:04:00]是的。當我三、四年前,因為我的一個朋友在考慮,“嘿,

[00:04:10] should I looking at data centre? Should I convert my building into data centre usage?”, which is coming in the next question, right? What are the requirements to convert a building

[00:04:10]我應該看看資料中心嗎?我是否應該將我的建築轉換為資料中心用途?”,下一秒也會來,對吧?改建建築物需要什麼條件

[00:04:20] to a data centre usage in Hong Kong, like in terms of like maybe floor loading, fire regulation and cooling? And at the same time is that, how many potential buildings can there be in Hong Kong to be converted?

[00:04:20]在香港的資料中心使用情况,比如地板荷載、消防調節和冷卻?同時,香港還有多少潜在的建築需要改造?

[00:04:30] And lastly, always most important thing as an investor is that, what is the typical cost per square foot to be convert?

[00:04:30]最後,作為一個投資者,最重要的是,每平方英尺的轉換成本是多少?

[00:04:40] [00:04:40] Anthony Wong: [00:04:40] Well, those are great questions, but I can’t comment too much on the prices, because it’s far fluctuating on different regions. So even if I give an average

[00:04:40][00:04:40]安東尼·王(Anthony Wong):[00:04:40]好吧,這些都是很好的問題,但我不能對價格做太多評論,因為不同地區的價格波動很大。所以即使我給出一個平均值

[00:04:50] price, it might not reflect the overall data centre market. With the new bredding prices, shocking, just purchased somewhere around, I would say, 4 billion

[00:04:50]價格,可能無法反映整個資料中心市場。以新的釀造價格,令人震驚,剛剛購買了大約40億

[00:05:00] Hong Kong dollars for a site in in ShaTin, for data centre site. So, to answer your question, really simply, there’s three ways for data centre,

[00:05:00]沙田語音站、資料中心站用港幣。所以回答你的問題,其實很簡單,資料中心有三種方法,

[00:05:10] real estate usage. One is wholesale conversion; another is land acquisition. And then the last is lease

[00:05:10]房地產使用。一種是批發轉化,另一種是土地徵用。最後一個是租賃

[00:05:20] modification. I think the easiest pathway would be wholesale conversion, which is simply really the change in the use of parts of its existing building.

[00:05:20]修改。我認為最簡單的方法是大規模改造,這實際上就是改變現有建築的部分用途。

[00:05:30] So for example, you have an industrial unit already, how do you convert it with the existing, for example, power lines that is necessitated

[00:05:30]例如,你已經有了一個工業組織,你如何將它與現有的,例如,必要的電力線進行轉換

[00:05:40] into the unit? What are the location that’s not affecting adjacent surrounding uses. So for wholesale conversion, there’s usually no fee for waiving

[00:05:40]進入單元?什麼地方不影響周圍的使用。所以對於批量轉換,通常不需要付費

[00:05:50] any conditions for the change of use. The data centre takes place in the existing building, which is typically according to the lands department and the

[00:05:50]任何改變用途的條件。資料中心位於現有建築物內,通常根據地政總署和

[00:06:00] government regulations has to be 15 years older. And the proposed building has to be zoning, industrial, commercial, and old use or other

[00:06:00]政府法規必須是15年前的法規。而且擬建的建築必須分區,工業、商業、舊用或其他用途

[00:06:10] specified uses business quotation. So, this is the easiest way in terms of cost flights. So if you’re able to convert into data centre, good for

[00:06:10]指定用途商業報價。所以這是最簡單的方法在成本班機。所以如果你能轉換成資料中心

[00:06:20] you. You can probably change it and if you are in trunking well, which there’s a lot of trunk lines powered by supporting that location, then there’s a high probability of

[00:06:20]你。你可以改變它,如果你是在中繼,有很多中繼線支持這個位置,那麼很有可能

[00:06:30] going through that wholesale conversion. Another thing is land acquisition, which is a government land that’s issued for sale for data center. And that

[00:06:30]進行大規模轉換。另一件事是土地徵用,這是政府為資料中心發行的土地。還有那個

[00:06:40] is usually a shootout in the lands department. And so, it’s usually a government site and from a land sale programme, stipulating data centres that what type of

[00:06:40]通常是地政總署的槍戰。所以通常是政府網站和土地出售計畫,規定資料中心

[00:06:50] uses back can the investors have the buyers are able to purchase and really

[00:06:50]使用回饋能讓投資者有買家購買,而且真的嗎

[00:07:00] depends what location it is and where it is too. And the last one is lease modification. As we develop, so for example, you have an old

[00:07:00]取決於它的位置和位置。最後一個是租賃變更。隨著我們的發展,例如,你有一個

[00:07:10] industrial building in Kwai Tsing, for example, which is really hot for data centres right now, how do you redevelop into higher data centres. There’s also regulations. So

[00:07:10]以葵青的工業塔樓為例,它現在對資料中心來說真的很熱門,你如何重新發展成更高的資料中心。也有規定。所以

[00:07:20] for example, the data centre portion of the redevelopment should be at least 40% assessed based on the

[00:07:20]例如,重新開發的資料中心部分應根據

[00:07:30] overall GFA. And another consideration is that the redevelopment has to take place on industrial block. So really, you have to look

[00:07:30]總建築面積。另一個考慮是,重建必須在工業區進行。所以說真的,你得看看

[00:07:40] through the Town Planning guidelines that outlines zoning plans, look in the land lease and see what the specifications. And as investor, most of all,

[00:07:40]通過概述分區計畫的城鎮規劃指南,查看土地租約,看看有什麼規範。作為投資者,最重要的是,

[00:07:50] you need to consider land premium. And that is subjective based on your location and what type of data centre you’re issuing. And what kind of company, are you an overseas

[00:07:50]您需要考慮土地溢價。這是主觀的,取決於你的位置和你發佈的資料中心的類型。什麼樣的公司,你是海外公司嗎

[00:08:00] company, local company? And how long are you proposing this development site for? So these are typically the three pathways to

[00:08:00]公司,當地公司?你打算把這個開發點建多久?所以這是典型的三種途徑

[00:08:10] go about on data centres development.

[00:08:10]繼續進行資料中心開發。

[00:08:12] Darren Wong: [00:08:12] I see. I assume that the electrical power grid will affect the potential probability of it. Is there any

[00:08:12]Darren Wong:[00:08:12]我明白了。我假設電網會影響它的潜在概率。有嗎

[00:08:20] difference between, for example, the Hong Kong Island side and Kowloon side? And if so, is there any preference? Do companies normally do both or one of them?

[00:08:20]例如,香港島和九龍區之間的區別?如果是這樣的話,有什麼偏好嗎?公司通常是兩者兼而有之還是其中之一?

[00:08:30] [00:08:30] Anthony Wong: [00:08:30] Yeah, that’s a good question. I’m not electrician, so I can’t comment the specifications of my research. I’ve read a

[00:08:30][00:08:30]安東尼·王:[00:08:30]是的,這是個好問題。我不是電工,所以我不能對我的研究成果發表評論。我讀過

[00:08:40] lot about the macro side data centre, but digging down to the technicality, it’s a really complicated topic, which requires

[00:08:40]關於宏觀方面的資料中心,但深入到科技層面,這是一個非常複雜的主題,需要

[00:08:50] people with a substantial engineering background. So I’ll give you my two cents on it. I would say, in Hong Kong, really broadly, these principles are

[00:08:50]具有豐富工程背景的人。所以我給你兩分錢。我想說,在香港,從廣義上講,這些原則是

[00:09:00] having reliable power supply. So for example, 99% reliability is really, really high. So specification, you can also look up into the guidelines

[00:09:00]電源可靠。例如,99%的可靠性非常非常高。所以規範,你也可以查一下指南

[00:09:10] from Hong Kong government website, and also the Hong Kong, low electricity cost is really what is attracting a lot of investors coming to Hong Kong,

[00:09:10]從香港政府網站以及香港來看,低成本的電力正是吸引眾多投資者來港投資的真正原因,

[00:09:20] developing data centres, because the fact that Hong Kong is not only reliable, but these data centres are requiring huge amount of

[00:09:20]發展資料中心,因為香港不僅可靠,而且這些資料中心需要大量

[00:09:30] electricity usages on a daily basis. So you need to find locations that could support that, for example, you have to have a development that is on the trunk line, or the electricity line or power

[00:09:30]每日用電量。所以你需要找到可以支持它的位置,例如,你必須有一個在骨幹上的開發,或者電力線或電力線

[00:09:40] station that is able to support the data center development. Now having a lot of network connectivity, and Hong Kong is a good place, because its climate is relatively stable. So you

[00:09:40]能够支持資料中心開發的工作站。現在有很多網絡連接,香港是個好地方,因為它的氣候相對穩定。所以你呢

[00:09:50] don’t have really substantial typhoons that could tore down these electrical lines of buildings, though there is still risk out there. But we also don’t

[00:09:50]雖然仍然存在風險,但沒有真正的颱風會摧毀這些建築物的電線。但我們也沒有

[00:10:00] have the risk of earthquakes, such as Japan, such as some parts of Taiwan and places like that. So I think

[00:10:00]有地震的危險,比如日本,比如臺灣的一些地方和類似的地方。所以我想

[00:10:10] another thing of Hong Kong really that we talked about, and the Hong Kong data centre landscape is data protection, which is a lot of people are concerning, because the

[00:10:10]我們還談到了香港的另一件事,香港資料中心的前景是數據保護,這是很多人關心的,因為

[00:10:20] personal data ordinance, which is issued by the Hong Kong government protects personal data. And there’s a lot of controversy surrounding it because of the new NSL

[00:10:20]香港政府頒佈的《個人資料條例》保護個人資料。因為新的NSL,圍繞它有很多爭議

[00:10:30] that’s coming in. But, this is still really, really attractive because of whether whatever happens, data is always going to be important, especially in a populated area,

[00:10:30]那就來了。尤其是在這個地區,無論數據是否真的很有吸引力,

[00:10:40] like South China, Hong Kong, Greater Bay Area. So I think it’s definitely, in terms of geographical region wise, [00:10:50] currently, I think Tseung Kwan O has a really good foundation for data centres because of its strong existing infrastructure.

[00:10:40]比如華南、香港、大灣區。所以我認為,就地理區域而言,[00:10:50]目前來看,將軍澳擁有一個非常好的資料中心基礎,因為它有强大的現有基礎設施。

[00:11:00] But you can look at emerging locations like Lok Ma Chau, Tuen Mun, that are actually gained attraction in terms of infrastructure building into the catering

[00:11:00]但你可以看看像落馬洲、屯門這樣的新興地方,它們在餐飲業的基礎設施建設方面確實吸引了不少人

[00:11:10] these data centres. So these will progressively be issued out by the government in terms of when these infrastructure could be built.

[00:11:10]這些資料中心。囙此,政府將逐步公佈這些基礎設施的建設時間。

[00:11:18] Darren Wong: [00:11:18] I see. That’s very informative, by the way,

[00:11:18]Darren Wong:[00:11:18]我明白了。順便說一句,這信息量很大,

[00:11:20] thank you so much, because you cover a lot of ground: what’s most important about data centre, and why is there, and why isn’t there. So we talked about this before.

[00:11:20]非常感謝您,因為您涵蓋了很多領域:資料中心最重要的是什麼,為什麼有,為什麼沒有。所以我們之前談過這個。

[00:11:30] Singapore and Guangzhou are very popular right now, where data centre type of assets, right? What’s the overall landscape in Asia? And how is Hong Kong positioned?

[00:11:30]新加坡和廣州現在很受歡迎,資料中心類型的資產在哪裡?亞洲的整體情况如何?香港的定位如何?

[00:11:40] And at the same time, who are the major players globally in the region?

[00:11:40]同時,誰是該地區全球的主要參與者?

[00:11:46] Anthony Wong: [00:11:46] Yeah, for sure. I think, to

[00:11:46]安東尼·王:[00:11:46]是的,當然。我想,為了

[00:11:50] answer the global players first, you have Equinix, Global Switch, these are really, really large global companies. In Hong

[00:11:50]首先回答全球玩家,你有Econoks,global Switch,這些都是非常非常大的全球性公司。在香港

[00:12:00] Kong, you have Sunevision, which is owned by Sun Hung Kai, I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, but this Sunevision is a big

[00:12:00]孔,你有派遣部,是新鴻基的,我想如果我錯了,請糾正我,但是這個派遣部是一個很大的部門

[00:12:10] data centre operator that supports a lot of high tech IOT stuff in Hong Kong. So these are the local market periods. You have

[00:12:10]資料中心運營商,支持香港大量高科技物聯網。所以現在是本地市場時期。你有

[00:12:20] Grand Ming as well, which is also a semi local market player. Hong Kong is well positioned geographically, because it’s close to

[00:12:20]大明也是一家半本地市場參與者。香港地理位置優越,因為它靠近

[00:12:30] China. And China requires a lot of, for example, international data transporting hub, and Hong Kong can act as an intermediary, just like a financial hub, because

[00:12:30]中國。中國需要很多,例如國際資料傳輸中心,而香港可以充當仲介,就像金融中心一樣,因為

[00:12:40] data in the future is going to worth a lot of money as well. So Hong Kong is geographically advantageous. But yes, it is competing with Singapore, as you talked about.

[00:12:40]未來的數據也會值很多錢。囙此,香港的地理位置優越。但是的,正如你所說的,它正在與新加坡競爭。

[00:12:50] Singapore is the gateway to Southeast Asia. And it has some advantages: robust data privacy regulation, arguably stronger than Hong Kong.

[00:12:50]新加坡是通往東南亞的門戶。它也有一些優勢:强有力的數據隱私監管,可以說比香港强。

[00:13:00] But Hong Kong does have that geographical advantage. Singapore in some way does edge Hong Kong a little bit in terms of the internet speed,

[00:13:00]但香港確實有這樣的地理優勢。在網速方面,新加坡在某種程度上確實比香港略勝一籌,

[00:13:10] because they have existing a little more robust infrastructure. And also, Singapore has more lenient

[00:13:10]因為他們有更强大的基礎設施。同時,新加坡也更加寬容

[00:13:20] land supply towards the sector. So they’re more willing for the market players to bring in more investment, because they’re all given a lot of land. I think a

[00:13:20]部門土地供應。所以他們更願意讓市場參與者帶來更多的投資,因為他們都得到了很多土地。我認為

[00:13:30] shortage of land supply in Hong Kong can be a problem, and has been a problem in the past. But Hong Kong government and various other consulting agencies are foreseeing

[00:13:30]香港土地供應不足可能是一個問題,過去也是一個問題。但香港政府和其他各種諮詢機構都預見到了這一點

[00:13:40] a new document issuing, you have heard about in the policy address budget report yesterday, that industrial revitalization 2.0, that is going to be

[00:13:40]你們昨天在施政報告預算報告中聽說了一個新檔案,那就是工業振興2.0

[00:13:50] a positive factor in terms of issuing more land for industrial and high tech and for these startups to prosper. So, yes, we are

[00:13:50]這是一個積極因素,有助於為工業和高科技以及這些初創企業提供更多的土地。所以,是的,我們是

[00:14:00] in a tricky platform. But I think once these conflicts, such as the US trade war, COVID,

[00:14:00]在一個棘手的平臺上。但我認為一旦這些衝突,比如美國貿易戰,科維德,

[00:14:10] and everything settles down, I think Hong Kong will emerge even stronger because of the geographical location. And the existing strong infrastructure, as we mentioned about the

[00:14:10]一切都安定下來了,我認為香港會因為地理位置而變得更加强大。以及現有强大的基礎設施,正如我們提到的

[00:14:20] electricity supply, the amount of human capital that can support this kind of industry.

[00:14:20]電力供應,能够支撐這類產業的人力資本數量。

[00:14:29] Darren Wong: [00:14:29] I see. That’s

[00:14:29]Darren Wong:[00:14:29]我明白了。那是

[00:14:30] interesting thinking about as grand scheme of thing, the geographical location, not only financial, it seems like even for the data side, the industrial side, it still have a

[00:14:30]有趣的是,作為一個宏大的計畫,地理位置,不僅是金融,似乎即使對於數據方面,工業方面,它仍然有一個

[00:14:40] benefit of it. And then I was planning to ask you more about the Guangzhou and Hong Kong relationship in terms of the data centre side. Would you mind to have some opinion on that?

[14:40]的好處。然後我打算問你更多關於廣州和香港在資料中心方面的關係。你介意對那件事發表意見嗎?

[00:14:51] [00:14:50] Anthony Wong: [00:14:51] So Guangzhou and Hong Kong? Yeah, for sure. So, Hong Kong currently, in the north of Hong Kong, if you go through the

[00:14:51][00:14:50]安東尼·王:[00:14:51]那麼廣州和香港?是的,當然。所以,現在的香港,在香港的北部,如果你經過

[00:15:00] border between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, there’s a place called Lok Ma Chau. So, not much always close to Hong Kong and Mainland China border, which is

[00:15:00]香港和深圳交界處,有一個地方叫落馬洲。所以,不太經常靠近香港和中國大陸的邊界

[00:15:10] desirable for tech companies just across the border like Tencent, Baidu, Huawei, DJI, which is drone company. So there’s currently proposed 87

[00:15:10]對於像騰訊(Tencent)、百度(Baidu)、華為(Huawei)、DJI(無人機公司)這樣的跨國科技公司來說,是個不錯的選擇。所以現在有人提議87

[00:15:20] hector of Hong Kong Shenzhen innovation and technology park at Lok Ma Chau, specifically catered towards R&D and technology, and startup incubators. So this kind of development will

[00:15:20]位於落馬洲的港深創新科技園,專門為研發和科技以及創業孵化器提供服務。所以這種發展會

[00:15:30] likely push even greater demand for data centres because of technology companies that are able to leverage upon Hong

[00:15:30]由於能够利用Hong的科技公司,可能會推動對資料中心的更大需求

[00:15:40] Kong because Tencent, we still don’t have a really popular usage of alipay and WeChat Pay in Hong Kong, we’re still relying on HSBC payme, right?

[00:15:40]香港因為騰訊,我們在香港還沒有真正流行的支付寶和微信支付,我們仍然依賴滙豐支付,對嗎?

[00:15:50] So, when I was working in China, all these financial payment platforms, almost no one uses

[00:15:50]所以,我在中國工作的時候,所有這些金融支付平臺,幾乎沒有人使用

[00:16:00] cash anymore. If you even go to rural areas, everyone except WeChat Pay, so you can tell how much of that financial data is really valuable and how much in relation back to data centres,

[00:16:00]現金。如果你去農村地區,除了微信,其他人都會付費,這樣你就可以知道這些金融數據中有多少是真正有價值的,以及有多少與資料中心有關,

[00:16:10] how much that is indeed in need. And I would say another place in Hong Kong, not bordering China is

[00:16:10]確實需要多少錢。我想說的是,香港的另一個地方,不打擾中國

[00:16:20] Tuen Mun. It is a very strategic location, the link between Chek Lap Kok and Tuen Mun that is supposed to be completed in 2020. This will create a lot of long term

[00:16:20]屯門。這是一個非常有戰畧意義的位置,連接赤?角和屯門,預計在2020年建成。這將產生很多長期的影響

[00:16:30] development opportunities, giving a lot more opportunities, long term growth, because it’s close to the airport, which is an International Airport. So

[00:16:30]發展機遇,給予更多機會,長期增長,因為它靠近國際機場機場。所以

[00:16:40] anywhere of these transportation hubs like borders and places with strong trunk lines and safe places

[00:16:40]這些交通樞紐中的任何一個,比如邊界和具有强大幹線和安全場所的地方

[00:16:50] in terms of geographically safe, stable climate wise, it’s a good place, and Hong Kong is at the right place of having that geographical

[00:16:50]就地理安全、氣候穩定而言,這裡是丹麥藝術家的好去處,而香港正是擁有這一地理位置的合適地點

[00:17:00] and infrastructure advantage.

[00:17:00]和基礎設施優勢。

[00:17:01] Darren Wong: [00:17:01] I see. So what are typical yield on data centre compared to traditional industrial building? And how long the lease contract and

[00:17:01]Darren Wong:[00:17:01]我明白了。那麼,與傳統工業建築相比,資料中心的典型收益率是多少?租賃合同和

[00:17:10] operators are typical for? Lastly, what’s the trend over on the demand for data centre in those regard? And do you think that the next 5 to 10 years,

[00:17:10]操作員是典型的?最後,在這些方面,對資料中心的需求趨勢如何?你認為未來5到10年,

[00:17:20] it’s going to be good? What would you think of that?

[00:17:20]會好起來的?你覺得怎麼樣?

[00:17:24] Anthony Wong: [00:17:24] Yeah, so the yield of the data centre is it’s about

[00:17:24]Anthony Wong:[00:17:24]是的,所以資料中心的收益是

[00:17:30] traditionally, it’s been about three 3.5%. It’s approaching 4%, because rents are really leveraging itself, which the yield is actually higher than

[00:17:30]傳統上是3.5%。它接近4%,因為租金確實在杠杆作用,收益率實際上比

[00:17:40] grade A offices in Hong Kong, which is about a high 2%. So it makes an attractive investment, because we can have greater returns and

[00:17:40]香港甲級寫字樓,約占2%。囙此,這是一項有吸引力的投資,因為我們可以獲得更高的回報

[00:17:50] typically more stable yields. Because usually, these contracts of the data centres, the leases range from 8 to 10 years or more, because you

[00:17:50]收益率通常更穩定。因為通常,這些資料中心的契约,租賃期從8年到10年甚至更長,因為你

[00:18:00] have really expensive equipment being shipped into these sites, right? So these racks, and usually these leases are longer because you want to protect these equipment

[00:18:00]是否有非常昂貴的設備被運到這些地點,對嗎?所以這些機架,通常這些租約更長,因為你想保護這些設備

[00:18:10] longer and able to operate longer in a specific location and move to a different location, and there might be a lot of problem as well. So usually typical

[00:18:10]時間更長,能够在特定位置操作更長時間,並移動到另一個位置,而且可能會有很多問題。所以通常是典型的

[00:18:20] tenants like to stay in a data center longer. So that creates more of a stable yield, not just high yield, stable but high yield. And rents have been progressively going up, for

[00:18:20]租戶喜歡在資料中心逗留更長時間。這樣就創造了更穩定的產量,不僅僅是高產,穩定而且高產。租金也在逐步上漲,因為

[00:18:30] example, this year, year-on-year has already gone up 5 to 10%, and depending on which region, right? So it is exciting. To answer where is the demand or where is the future trend going? There’s a lot of trend that is propelling the sector. And when you look at the COVID induced remote office solutions, and cloud computing, a lot of companies are willing for the employee to work from home or

[00:18:30]比如,今年同比已經上漲了5%到10%,這要看哪個地區,對吧?所以這是令人興奮的。回答需求的方向或未來趨勢如何?有很多趨勢在推動這個行業的發展。當你看到COVID誘導的遠程辦公室解決方案和云計算時,很多公司都願意讓員工在家裡或

[00:18:40] on

[00:18:40]開

[00:18:50] a rotational basis. I think Hong

[00:18:50]輪換制。我想洪

[00:19:00] Kong, work from home is not going to be as impacted. For example, that notion is not going to come back. But for example.

[00:19:00]孔,在家工作不會受到影響。例如,這種想法不會再出現。但舉例來說。

[00:19:10] Places like San Francisco, which is tech, and in some places, you’re gonna drive an hour to your office. In Hong Kong, transportation still really convenient. So remote

[00:19:10]像舊金山這樣的地方,科技含量很高,在某些地方,你要開車一個小時到你的辦公室。在香港,交通還是很方便的。太遙遠了

[00:19:20] solutions in other areas that requires more working, transporting time will be really, really useful.

[00:19:20]其他需要更多工作和運輸時間的解決方案將非常非常有用。

[00:19:30] As we talked about the MNC corporates and these high tech companies will obviously be at the forefront of

[00:19:30]正如我們所說的,跨國公司和這些高科技公司顯然將走在

[00:19:40] driving this data centre use because of their data data demand. Another thing is online and retail e-commerce that’s been going on in 5 to

[00:19:40]由於他們的數據數據需求,推動資料中心的使用。另一件事是線上和零售電子商務,這在5到

[00:19:50] 20 years almost, since Amazon came in and I think consumer demand is increasing and shifting towards online shopping. And retail should invest in online shopping

[00:19:50]差不多20年了,自從亞馬遜(Amazon)問世以來,我認為消費者的需求正在新增,並轉向線上購物。零售業應該投資於網上購物

[00:20:00] platforms, and enhancing, for example, different distribution strategies. And these kind of online shopping requires a lot of

[00:20:00]例如,不同的分銷策略。這種網上購物需要很多

[00:20:10] data use as well. And data centre creates a really kind of roadmap for these different online shops can, as an intermediary, to give information for

[00:20:10]數據使用也是如此。資料中心為這些不同的線上商店創建了一個真正的路線圖,作為仲介,可以為

[00:20:20] consumers and the owners themselves. And last but most, I think, data centre, it is emerging. But even further than

[00:20:20]消費者和所有者自己。最後但最重要的是,我認為,資料中心正在興起。但甚至比

[00:20:30] that, there has to be more of a green and sustainable data centre development coming into play. As you know, data centre, as we talked

[00:20:30]囙此,必須更多地發揮綠色和永續的資料中心發展的作用。如你所知,資料中心,正如我們所說

[00:20:40] about previously, data centres is really energy intensive. It provides a lot of power, and it consume a lot of energy. So

[00:20:40]以前,資料中心確實是能源密集型的。它提供了大量的能量,也消耗了大量的能量。所以

[00:20:50] the large operators, actually right now, like international operators, like Equinix, Equinix, has actually adopted renewable practice by using

[00:20:50]大型運營商,實際上現在,像國際運營商,比如equinix,equinix,已經通過使用

[00:21:00] a lot of their electricity supply from renewable energies like solar power, wind power. They actually committed and a lot of companies will be

[00:21:00]他們的大量電力來自可再生能源,如太陽能、風能。他們真的承諾了很多公司會

[00:21:10] following that, especially with the ESG and the post-COVID trend of environmental awareness, these companies are actually trying to achieve the 100%

[00:21:10]在這之後,特別是隨著ESG和環境意識的後COVID趨勢,這些公司實際上正在努力實現100%

[00:21:20] efficiency in terms of renewable energy. On top of that, you have a really great policy platform, such as the UN 2030

[00:21:20]可再生能源的效率。除此之外,你還有一個非常好的政策平臺,比如聯合國2030

[00:21:30] sustainable agenda, ESG guidelines, as we talked about, which will even push these companies to go for renewable energy that is sustaining data centres. So I see

[00:21:30]永續議程,ESG指南,正如我們所說,它甚至會推動這些公司採用可再生能源來維持資料中心。所以我明白了

[00:21:40] this as a future pathway and how data centre is developed.

[00:21:40]這是一個未來的途徑,以及如何開發資料中心。

[00:21:44] Darren Wong: [00:21:44] And that’s very, very good. I think that’s a very good way to

[00:21:44]Darren Wong:[00:21:44]非常非常好。我覺得這是個很好的方法

[00:21:50] summarise too. There’s so many questions popping up in my head right away, but I’ll leave it for asking you on your profile and for Denzity profile and everything and more and more. And then so for people who might

[00:21:50]總結一下。我腦子裏馬上就冒出這麼多問題,但我還是把它留給你在你的個人資料上問你,再問你密不透風的個人資料等等。對那些可能

[00:22:00] want to know more about this segment and the previous episode of research and so on, what are couple ways that people can find you, know more about you and your work?

[00:22:00]想瞭解更多關於本部分和前一集的研究等等,人們可以通過哪些管道找到你,瞭解你和你的工作?

[00:22:09] Anthony Wong: [00:22:09] Yeah,

[00:22:09]安東尼·王:[00:22:09]是的,

[00:22:10] for sure. So, we have published a data centre report in April so even go on google and type in data centre, future landscape data centre

[00:22:10]當然。所以,我們在4月份發佈了一份資料中心報告,甚至可以在穀歌上輸入資料中心,未來景觀資料中心

[00:22:20] specifically and you type it in and type in Colliers International. We actually did a 14-page report specifically analysing locally based in Hong Kong, where to invest in data

[00:22:20]具體地說,你輸入並輸入高力國際。實際上,我們做了一份14頁的報告,專門分析了香港本地的數據投資地點

[00:22:30] centre. We have a strong research and evaluation team, if you’re more interested and have investment thoughts or just curious about this

[00:22:30]中心。我們有一個强大的研究和評估團隊,如果你更感興趣,有投資想法或只是好奇

[00:22:40] sector, feel free to just take a look at the document or reach me out, or reach our company, some of the representative. But my email is

[00:22:40]或者直接從我們公司的代表那裡拿到一份檔案。但我的電子郵件

[00:22:50] anthony.wong@colliers.com. Make use of those reports and give you a perspective on where our data centres moving towards. And then we give a lot of insights, how not only Hong Kong itself and how our

[00:22:50]安東尼·王@高力網.利用這些報告,讓您瞭解我們的資料中心走向何方。然後我們給出了很多見解,不僅是香港本身,還有我們

[00:23:00] international forces like we talked about Singapore, how are we competing with our competitors? So, do feel free to reach out via my email address

[00:23:00]國際力量就像我們談到的新加坡,我們如何與我們的競爭對手競爭?所以,請隨時通過我的電子郵寄地址聯系

[00:23:10] or take a look at our reports.

[00:23:10] 或者看看我們的報告。

[00:23:13] Darren Wong: [00:23:13] That’s great. Obviously, as I said before, I’ll have everything in the show notes. And I want to say thank you so much. Thanks for sharing

[00:23:13]Darren Wong:[00:23:13]太好了。很明顯,就像我之前說的,我會把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記裏。我非常感謝你。謝謝分享

[00:23:20] with us. And then I, even myself personally, I learned a lot through your sharing. And then hopefully, you can come back for round two, because, just alone, I’m sure if I come to the next

[00:23:20]和我們一起。然後我,甚至我個人,通過你們的分享我學到了很多。然後希望你能回來參加第二輪,因為,就一個人,我肯定我會來下一輪

[00:23:30] segment, let’s say, in the future maybe retail or office or anything big changes, your one of the first person I’ll talk to see, hey, Anthony, just come on board, round two again. So thanks

[00:23:30]比如說,未來可能是零售業、辦公室、牙醫或其他什麼大的變化,你是我第一個見到的人之一,嘿,安東尼,來吧,再來第二輪。所以謝謝

[00:23:40] a lot for your time and effort. Because it’s something that like I care about is that people know more about what’s going on, and niche market that data centre, industrial, different sections of it,

[00:23:40]你花了很多時間和精力。因為我關心的是,人們對正在發生的事情有更多的瞭解,以及利基市場,資料中心,工業,it的不同部門,

[00:23:50] too. We can cover that in the future. So thanks a lot again.

[00:23:50]也是。我們可以在將來討論這個問題。再次感謝你。

[00:23:52] Anthony Wong: [00:23:52] Yeah, for sure. It’s my pleasure. This sector is changing quite a lot. So for sure, the next time we chat about it, we’re going to see new

[00:23:52]安東尼·王:[00:23:52]是的,當然。這是我的榮幸。這個行業正在發生很大的變化。所以,下一次我們聊這個的時候,我們會看到新的

[00:24:00] exciting things coming in, for example, the transaction by TikTok, yesterday, it was quite exciting. So it’s a very exciting topic to talk about. And thanks for having me here. For sure.

[00:24:00]令人興奮的事情來了,例如,昨天的滴答交易,非常令人興奮。所以這是一個非常令人興奮的話題。謝謝你讓我來。當然。

[00:24:09] Darren Wong: [00:24:09] Okay,

[00:24:09]Darren Wong:[00:24:09]好的,

[00:24:10] thank you. See you next time, then. Thank you.

[00:24:10]謝謝。那麼下次見。謝謝您。

[00:24:12] Anthony Wong: [00:24:12] Yeah, for sure, have a good one. Take care. Bye bye.

[00:24:12]安東尼·王:[00:24:12]是的,當然,祝你愉快。當心。再見。

[00:24:14] Darren Wong: [00:24:14] Bye.

[00:24:14]Darren Wong:[00:24:14]再見。

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

5 Reasons Why Vietnam Is Becoming Asia’s Latest Property Hotspot

The prospects of Vietnam real estate remain optimistic and are the brightest among Asian countries

5 Reasons Why Vietnam Is Becoming Asia’s Latest Property Hotspot

2020 is a challenging year for global investors. While no country can avoid the pandemic’s economic downturn, the prospects of Vietnam real estate remain positive and are the brightest among Asian countries. This article highlights 5 crucial factors driving foreign buyers’ interest in this rising Southeast Asian country.

1. Growing economy
2020 is a challenging year for global investors. But Vietnam has received international praise for its efficient and effective response to the COVID-19 outbreak. While no country can avoid the pandemic’s economic downturn, the prospects of Vietnam real estate remain optimistic and are the brightest among Asian countries. Data released by the General Statistics Office of Vietnam estimated a 1.81 percent growth to Vietnam’s GDP in the first half of 2020. The estimation is encouraging as Vietnam is one of the few countries that achieved positive growth during the pandemic.

2. Foreigners friendly policy
It used to be very difficult for foreigners to own property in Vietnam. But now, thanks to the Vietnamese government’s support, buying a property in Vietnam has become easier for foreigners. Since 2015, foreigners can purchase as many real estate units as they want, provided that they do not buy more than 30 percent of the units in each new residential project. Foreigners are also allowed to use and control the land they lease with a leasehold period of up to 50-70 years. If you want to find out more details, speak to a Vietnam real estate expert to find more.

3. Improved infrastructure
The urban development in Vietnam has been a miracle, and the Vietnamese government is very supportive. Various expressway projects are being planned or under construction to improve connectivity within major cities. For example, the North-South expressway is a Vietnamese expressway running from Hanoi to Cần Thơ. It has been described as Vietnam’s future transport foundation. The expressway will be 1,941 km long, with a total cost estimate of US$18.5 billion. Meanwhile, with rapid urbanization, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh are building rapid transit systems in the hope of reducing private vehicle ownership and improving air quality. The ambitious infrastructure plan will undoubtedly bring many benefits to the Vietnam real estate market.

4. Affordable prices
The good thing about Vietnam is that it is a fast-growing country. In Vietnam, home prices are considered very affordable compared to traditional property hotspots such as Hong Kong and Singapore. The average price of apartments in Hanoi is estimated to be US$1,493 per sq. m. in Q2 2020. Despite rising prices, Vietnam’s luxury apartments seem like an attractive deal for wealthy investors who used to sky-high prices back home or in countries like Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong.

5. Offer great yields
Rental yield is the return on investment in percent (%) when comparing the property’s current value to the rental income. In Vietnam, yields can reach up to 6%-8%, especially in popular areas. According to multiple sources, Hanoi offers the greatest yields compared to other cities. Thanks to its strategic location, the capital is becoming extremely popular among the Asian real estate community. Flying to Hanoi takes you less than 2 hours from Hong Kong and about 5 hours from Shanghai. Real estate experts also expect property rental yields to further rise in the future as demand increases.

Want to buy property in Vietnam? Reach out to a trusted real estate community for more information!

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Market Updates 未分類

Top 4 Cities In Vietnam To Watch in 2021

Vietnam is becoming Asia’s latest property hotspot.

Top 4 Cities In Vietnam To Watch in 2021

Vietnam is booming! Forget about the traditional real estate hotspots like Hong Kong and Singapore. Vietnam is becoming Asia’s latest property hotspot. In 2015, Vietnam opened up to foreign real estate investors, and it has become one of the hottest topics among the real estate community ever since. Currently, foreigners can purchase as many real estate units as they want, provided that they do not buy more than 30 percent of the units in each new residential project.

With a relatively strong economy (data released by the General Statistics Office of Vietnam estimated a 1.81 percent growth to Vietnam’s GDP in the first half of 2020. The numbers are promising as Vietnam is one of few countries that achieved positive growth during the pandemic) and an ambitious infrastructure plan. The property market in Vietnam is enticing and offers excellent yields.

For newbies, you may have heard of Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City. But Vietnam is more than that. In this article, we’ll introduce 4 cities that you should pay attention to in 2021.

Hanoi

Hanoi is the country’s capital and the second-largest city. It is also the cultural and industrial centre. Life in Hanoi is very enchanting for those who love to explore Vietnamese history and culture. The city retains its Old Quarter, which features very distinctive Vietnamese architecture and tradition. Meanwhile, Hanoi is where embassies, start-ups, and NGOs locate, which increases the size of the rental market. The average price of apartments in Hanoi is estimated to be US$1,493 per sq. m. in Q2 2020. Despite rising prices, Hanoi’s luxury apartments seem like an attractive deal for wealthy investors from regions like Hong Kong and mainland China. Thanks to its strategic location, flying to Hanoi takes you less than 2 hours from Hong Kong and about 5 hours from Shanghai.


Ho Chi Minh City

Being the largest city in Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City is praised as Vietnam’s economic hub. It has attracted the largest expats because it is the largest financial and economic hub in the country. The rapid growth of the population increases the demand for apartments. For years, Ho Chi Minh City led Vietnam in terms of FDI attraction. In 2017, there were 7,494 projects issued with valid investment certificates, accounting for 13.9% of the country’s total FDI. Ho Chi Minh City has 11 industrial zones with a total area of more than 1,700 hectares; practically anything of business significance happening in Vietnam goes through Ho Chi Minh City. Real estate experts believe the real estate market of Ho Chi Minh City will remain strong in the coming years.


Nha Trang
Looking for luxury holiday flats? Nha Trang is for you! Being the coastal area of central Vietnam, the economy of Nha Trang rises significantly. Nha Trang is well known for its beaches and scuba diving and has developed into a popular destination for international visitors. While the tourism industry is greatly affected by the pandemic, it will bounce back as Vietnam has received international praise for its efficient and effective response to the COVID-19 outbreak. Nha Trang is the city to watch in 2021!


Da Nang

In 2017, Da Nang was chosen to host the APEC Economic Leaders’ Week, a sign to show its importance to the country. Da Nang is only hours away from significant domestic and foreign markets such as Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, China and India, making a favourable destination for foreign real estate investment. According to real estate experts, the most popular properties for foreign investors in Da Nang are high-end resorts, hotels and beachfront villas.

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Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: Real Estate Research Like A Pro With Anthony Wong

Real Estate Research Like A Pro With Anthony Wong

Conducting proper research can be key to a successful real estate investment as it has a huge role to play in several ways. That’s why it is important to know where and how to get the correct information since data is often inaccessible to many. Therefore, we decided to cover this topic with Anthony Wong, a real estate research expert.

  • Methods & sources that investors should leverage
  • The process of assessing the different type of projects
  • When conducting research in emerging market

▶ Connect with Anthony:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-wong-8ba67080/

▶ Source & Supporting:

Realinflo: https://www.realinflo.com

Colliers International: https://www2.colliers.com/en

Real Capital Analytics: https://www.rcanalytics.com

Buildings Department: https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/index.html

Data Centre: A data centre is an enclosed space where everything related to data is stored and handled inside mass number of computers, devices through many servers and networks.

https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberpedia/what-is-a-data-center

APR: APR or annual percentage rate is the percentage of the amount that the borrower needs to pay to the lender per year.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/apr.asp

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

======


Anthony Wong_ep24

[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Darren Wong: [00:00:00] Well, Anthony, welcome to the show.

[00:00:00][00:00]Darren Wong:[00:00:00]好吧,安東尼,歡迎收看節目。

[00:00:04]Anthony Wong: [00:00:04] Hi, it’s a pleasure to be here.

[00:00:04]安東尼·王:[00:00:04]嗨,很高興來到這裡。

[00:00:06] Darren Wong: [00:00:06] Yeah. So, I think we met a couple months ago

[00:00:06]Darren Wong:[00:00:06]是的。我想我們幾個月前見過面

[00:00:10] through our friend Gary from a RealInflo. And then I remember when we talked about having the show, and then your background is very good

[00:00:10]通過我們的朋友加里從一個真正的流入。我記得我們談過舉辦這個節目的時候,你的背景很好

[00:00:20] because our show is about helping audiences to learn about how to make better judgement, and better-informed decisions when it comes to real estate investing. So, if someone from your background have

[00:00:20]因為我們的節目旨在幫助觀眾瞭解如何在房地產投資方面做出更好的判斷和更明智的決策。所以,如果你背景的人

[00:00:30] the knowledge professionally, and have a very broad view of different location, how to think about investment is something that I’m really happy that you’re here to share with everyone here.

[00:00:30]專業的知識,對不同的地點有著非常廣闊的視野,如何思考投資是我非常高興的事情,你能在這裡與大家分享。

[00:00:40] [00:00:40] Anthony Wong: [00:00:40] Yeah, certainly. I mean, it’s a pleasure, get to know to Gary, who actually worked in my company before he came in and did a little

[00:00:40][00:00:40]安東尼·王:[00:00:40]是的,當然。我是說,很高興認識加里,他來之前在我公司工作過,做過一些事情

[00:00:50] presentation and modelling about his business line, RealInflo. If you haven’t checked out it, it’s a real estate platform, basically an extract of different real estate

[00:00:50]關於他的業務線,真實流入的演示和建模。如果你還沒看過,那就是一個房地產平臺,基本上是不同房地產的摘錄

[00:01:00] information, combining every data platform into one. Yeah, to start off with I’ve given introduction of myself. I’m Anthony Wong. I’m currently a research

[00:01:00]資訊,將每個數據平臺組合為一個。是的,首先我做了自我介紹。我是安東尼王。我現在在做研究

[00:01:10] manager at Colliers International. My education is that I have a master’s degree in real estate development. And previously, I’ve worked in China, and US

[00:01:10]高力國際的經理。我的教育是取得房地產開發碩士學位。以前,我在中國和美國工作過

[00:01:20] and now in Hong Kong. And I’ve worked in developers, which is client side and the consultancy side. I’ve also worked in several smaller startup side projects

[00:01:20]現在在香港。我在開發商工作過,也就是客戶方和諮詢方。我也曾參與過一些小型的創業項目

[00:01:30] previously, when I was interning during my university. So, for my current role, my responsibilities include writing research reports, managing

[00:01:30]以前,我在大學實習的時候。所以,對於我現時的角色,我的職責包括撰寫研究報告,管理

[00:01:40] database, as well as supporting a local team to execute client projects. So, every single quarter, as you know, there’s four quarters a year, and we have to produce

[00:01:40]資料庫,以及支持本地團隊執行客戶項目。所以,每個季度,如你所知,一年有四個季度,我們必須生產

[00:01:50] four reports per year, including retail, industrial, office and capital markets. So, one of the more interesting projects, which we’ll talk in a later

[00:01:50]每年四份報告,包括零售、工業、辦公和資本市場。所以,一個更有趣的項目,我們將在稍後討論

[00:02:00] episode is that data centre, we’ve recently published a research radar report on data centre market in Hong Kong, about smart technology, IOTs,

[00:02:00]關於資料中心,我們最近發佈了一份關於香港資料中心市場的研究雷達報告,關於智慧科技、物聯網,

[00:02:10] and how that is driving demand of higher data usage and what kind of sectors is changing in the upcoming years because it is gaining a lot attraction. And

[00:02:10]這是如何推動對更高數據使用率的需求的,以及在未來幾年中,哪些行業正在發生變化,因為它正變得越來越有吸引力。以及

[00:02:20] we’ll talk more about that in terms of industrial conversion, development, acquisition in the later chapter. But I’m happy to talk about my experience background. And now go back to you, Darren.

[00:02:20]我們將在後面的章節中從產業轉型、發展、收購等方面進行更多討論。但我很樂意談談我的經歷背景。現在回到你身邊,達倫。

[00:02:30] [00:02:30] Darren Wong: [00:02:30] Yeah, well, thanks for sharing because, I think when we prepping the show, and then you talked about we start with having one episode about how to do a better research, how

[00:02:30][00:02:30]Darren Wong:[00:02:30]是的,謝謝你的分享,因為,我想當我們準備節目的時候,你說我們從一集開始講如何做更好的研究,怎麼做

[00:02:40] to understand about investing overseas or locally. And then you mentioned data centre, where same time is that a lot of my friends are looking to data centre to invest or look into how to

[00:02:40]瞭解海外或本地投資。然後你們提到了資料中心,同時我的很多朋友都在找資料中心投資或者研究如何投資

[00:02:50] restructure it, which that’s why we dedicated for two different episodes for this. So, let’s start with the research side, because I think the information is interesting. So, for the

[00:02:50]重組它,這就是為什麼我們為此專門製作了兩個不同的劇集。所以,讓我們從研究方面開始,因為我認為這些資訊很有趣。所以,為了

[00:03:00] audience who might not be familiar, would you mind explaining what a real estate researcher does? And what a typical day would be?

[00:03:00]可能不太熟悉的觀眾,您介意解釋一下房地產研究員的工作嗎?那會是什麼樣的一天呢?

[00:03:07] Anthony Wong: [00:03:07] Yeah, for sure. I mean, in real estate

[00:03:07] Anthony Wong: [00:03:07]當然可以。我是說,在房地產領域

[00:03:10] research, you really get touch upon in different areas of things, not only just in real estate, you have to understand economics, stock market,

[00:03:10]研究,你會接觸到不同領域的事情,不僅僅是在房地產領域,你必須瞭解經濟學、股票市場,

[00:03:20] interest rates, all kinds of stuff. So, you have to be really, really aware of what’s happening in the economy, and everywhere, basically. So typically, I start off my day with reading

[00:03:20] 利率,各種各樣的東西。所以,你必須真正地,真正地意識到經濟中正在發生的事情,以及所有地方,基本上。所以我通常從閱讀開始我的一天

[00:03:30] a lot of market news, like Bloomberg, Routers, SCMP, HKEJ, or even local news like that, just to get a sense of how the economy is doing that

[00:03:30]很多市場新聞,比如彭博社、路由器、SCMP、HKEJ,甚至是當地的新聞,只是想瞭解一下經濟是如何運作的

[00:03:40] day or that quarter or that month. And after just reading news off it, it really depends what kind of project I’m working on. For example, in the

[00:03:40]某日或該季度或該月。在剛剛讀過新聞之後,這取決於我在做什麼樣的項目。例如,在

[00:03:50] past quarter, we published four quarterly reports, if you haven’t checked out, go to our Colliers International website, and it has the four sectors indicating

[00:03:50]過去一個季度,我們發佈了四個季度報告,如果您還沒有查看,請訪問我們的高力國際網站,上面有四個部門顯示

[00:04:00] how the market is doing. So yes, the four core markets we talked about is office, retail, industrial and capital markets. For office, it’s really, for us,

[00:04:00]市場情况如何。所以,是的,我們談到的四個覈心市場是辦公、零售、工業和資本市場。為了辦公室,真的,為了我們,

[00:04:10] as a researcher, every single month, we have to go through monthly meetings without brokers to understand how the rental changes are doing,

[00:04:10]作為一名研究員,每個月,我們都要在沒有經紀人的情况下召開月度會議,以瞭解租金的變化情况,

[00:04:20] what are the tenancy arrangements, what the vacancy rates, who are moving in and out of these new leases. For example, in Central and core areas in the past couple of

[00:04:20]租賃安排是什麼,空置率是多少,這些新租約的入住者和搬出者。例如,在中央和覈心區

[00:04:30] months, seeing a lot of changes because of the trade wars, the COVID-19, all that kind of market turbulence going on. So really keeping

[00:04:30]幾個月來,由於貿易戰,COVID-19,所有的市場動盪都在發生。所以真的

[00:04:40] close intact with the brokers, with the market players is really important on our daily flow. In terms of retail side, yes, you have

[00:04:40]與經紀人、市場參與者保持完整的關係對我們的日常交易流非常重要。在零售方面,是的,你有

[00:04:50] to get in close touch with the brokers, but not only that, you have to do a lot of self-research. So, for me recently, I published retail reports. We have to

[00:04:50]要與經紀人保持密切聯繫,但不僅如此,你還需要做大量的自我調查。最近,我發佈了零售報告。我們必須

[00:05:00] understand retail sales, we have to understand exports, imports, where are the sort of goods coming in, and how are the vacancy rates responding to

[00:05:00]瞭解零售銷售,我們必須瞭解出口、進口、商品種類以及空置率如何應對

[00:05:10] that. And also understanding incoming travellers, visitor travellers demand, when you look at it, almost 70 to 80%, back then all the travellers are from Mainland China,

[00:05:10]那個。同時也瞭解到入境旅客,旅客的需求,如果你看一下,差不多有70%到80%的旅客來自中國大陸,

[00:05:20] so they buy a lot of luxury goods. But now the trends are changing, it’s more like necessities, supermarkets are doing really well. No longer luxurious goods are doing well in the market right now. So

[00:05:20]所以他們買了很多奢侈品。但現在趨勢在變,更像是生活必需品,量販店的生意真的很好。現在市場上不再是奢侈品了。所以

[00:05:30] really being able to, and that’s why going back to the point reading market means understanding how the economy is going and reflected a research report. Industrial, as I talked about, it’s going through a

[00:05:30]真正能够做到這一點,這就是為什麼回到重點閱讀市場意味著瞭解經濟發展情况並反映出一份研究報告。工業,就像我說的,它正在經歷一個

[00:05:40] lot of changes as well. As you know, as a lot of people do know the supplies really limited. It’s not as substantial as

[00:05:40]還有很多變化。正如你所知道的,很多人都知道供應確實有限。它沒有實質性的

[00:05:50] residential, where there’s a high demand, but industrial is going to go through a big change in terms of the higher demand for data centres, the higher demand for higher

[00:05:50]住宅區,那裡的需求很高,但工業區將經歷一場巨大的變化,即對資料中心的需求越高,對資料中心的需求就越高

[00:06:00] quality industrial buildings, and a better location in support of that. And lastly but not, capital markets. That used to be one of the largest revenues [00:06:10] stream and consultancies, really trying to find big buyers. I mean, you can buy a billion dollar, a

[00:06:00]優質的工業建築,以及更好的位置來支持這一點。最後但不是資本市場。這曾經是stream和consultancies收入最大的公司之一,真的在尋找大買家。我是說,你可以買10億美元的15個幫手

[00:06:20] billion-dollar transaction and be a broker, and in between, you can get a big commission and back, it gives the companies a big portion of revenue during good times.

[00:06:20]10億美元的交易,做個經紀人,在這期間,你可以得到一大筆傭金,然後再回來,這會給公司帶來很大一部分的收入。

[00:06:30] But in tougher times, it’s tougher. So, the capital markets right now we’re really trying to help them to find distressed assets. Selling, advising our capital markets team to

[00:06:30]但在更艱難的時候,情况會更艱難。所以,資本市場現在我們真的在努力幫助他們找到不良資產。建議我們的資本市場團隊

[00:06:40] advise the clients where to buy properties. Hotel sector is a good one, because hotel is really having really low APR rate. So, giving them a really

[00:06:40]建議客戶在哪裡購買房產。酒店業是個不錯的行業,因為飯店的年利率確實很低。所以,給他們一個真正的

[00:06:50] good perspective and good direction in terms of how they deal with their clients and giving them a lot of resources is what I do on a daily basis. And I’m

[00:06:50]在如何與客戶打交道方面,以及給他們提供大量資源方面,我每天都要做的就是要有良好的視角和良好的方向。我是

[00:07:00] really happy to be part of the team and giving support our various brokers team.

[00:07:00]非常高興成為團隊的一員,並為我們的各個經紀人團隊提供支援。

[00:07:05] Darren Wong: [00:07:05] it sounds like a lot, a lot of reading and understanding. Because not only there you are being an

[00:07:05]Darren Wong:[00:07:05]聽起來有很多,很多閱讀和理解。因為你不僅在那裡

[00:07:10] economist, you’re being on the ground, talking to someone like broker in the forefront, and then you have to keep learning every single day. And not only real estate, right? Because real estate is a

[00:07:10]經濟學家,你在實地工作,和像經紀人這樣的人在前線交談,然後你每天都要不斷學習。不僅僅是房地產,對吧?因為房地產是

[00:07:20] big, big sector, but then the ecosystem with stocks, equity, debt, there’s so many neurons that you have to juggle with. And obviously, like not all the audience

[00:07:20]龐大的行業,但是在股票、股票、債務的生態系統中,有太多的神經元需要你去處理。顯然,不像所有的觀眾

[00:07:30] had the luxury that they can sit down and learn about these things every single day. But then it seems like it’s good to have someone like you to weave out and say, “hey, let’s make something very simple, ABCD,

[00:07:30]他們每天都可以坐下來學習這些東西。不過,有你這樣的人來編織,然後說,“嘿,讓我們把事情做得很簡單,ABCD,

[00:07:40] how to do it,” and then maybe, in the future, you become a researcher, you can do a lot more of that. So, being in the professional firms, what are some sources of knowledge that you can access

[00:07:40]如何做到這一點,“也許將來,你成為一名研究人員,你可以做更多的工作。那麼,在專業公司裏,你能獲得哪些知識來源

[00:07:50] to, which the audience might not gain access? Or have a harder time to have those knowledges?

[00:07:50]到,觀眾可能無法訪問這些內容?或者更難掌握這些知識?

[00:07:57] Anthony Wong: [00:07:57] Yeah, for sure. I mean, as a researcher, we

[00:07:57]安東尼·王:[00:07:57]是的,當然。我是說,作為一個研究者,我們

[00:08:00] do you have access to certain amount of knowledge that the public don’t have. But actually, majority of the resources that we do get is actually free to the public, and

[00:08:00]你能接觸到公眾所沒有的知識嗎。但實際上,我們得到的大部分資源實際上是免費的,而且

[00:08:10] just that the public are not aware of it. So, for example, besides our internal database, which we support our rentals

[00:08:10]只是公眾並不知道。例如,除了我們的內部審計資料庫,我們支持我們的租賃

[00:08:20] and vacancy every single month, for our office grade A brokerage team, which we provide different kinds of data. Yes, that is really kind of hard, difficult to

[00:08:20]並且每個月都有空缺,對於我們辦公室的甲級經紀團隊,我們提供不同種類的數據。是的,那真的有點難,很難

[00:08:30] retrieve because we manage our in-house database. But on top of that, things like land supply, land tender sells, those are all available in the market, for example, in the

[00:08:30]檢索,因為我們管理我們的內部資料庫。但除此之外,土地供應、土地招標出售等都是市場上可以買到的,例如

[00:08:40] lands apartment, you can go on the land sale section, and there’s different kinds of land tender documents, and you can look at different past bidders who bid at the land,

[00:08:40]土地公寓,你可以去賣地部分,那裡有不同種類的土地招標檔案,你可以看看不同的過去的競買人誰在等待土地,

[00:08:50] and what are the sort of trajectory. For example, most recently, there’s a lot of Chinese buyers, as you know, China Mobile just purchased an industrial site in ShaTin, a couple more sites

[00:08:50]軌跡是怎樣的。例如,最近有很多中國買家,你知道,中國移動剛剛在沙田購買了一個工業網站,還有幾個網站

[00:09:00] in Tuen Mun that various other Chinese companies. Understanding they’re not out there, but you just have to dig deeper into these websites. And

[00:09:00]在屯門,有許多其他中國包裹。瞭解他們不在那裡,但你只需要深入挖掘這些網站。以及

[00:09:10] another one is, if you have a piece of land, for example, investor, where do you go about to start up beside higher concern? Before you do due diligence, you can go on planning

[00:09:10]另一個問題是,如果你有一塊土地,比如說,投資者,除了更高的關注點之外,你要去哪裡創業?在你盡職調查之前,你可以繼續計畫

[00:09:20] department about outline zoning plan portal, which kind of shows you what are the limitations, restrictions regarding that area, for example, building heights, for example,

[00:09:20]關於分區規劃大綱的部門入口网站,它向您展示了該區域的限制和限制,例如,建築高度,

[00:09:30] zoning, for example, how many GFP that’s allowed. Plot ratio, that’s a good one. Really, it’s really available out there, but it’s really finding the sources. Another

[00:09:30]分區,例如,允許多少GFP。容積率,不錯。真的,它真的有,但它真的在尋找來源。另一個

[00:09:40] resource and knowledge that I gained access to, which a lot of people have heard of, is Real Capital Analytics. And that’s a subscription platform we do. And it’s mainly in

[00:09:40]我獲得的資源和知識,很多人都聽說過,是真正的資本分析。這是一個訂閱平臺。主要是在

[00:09:50] support of various valuation teams that we do have. And also capital markets team, for example, understanding what the recent transactions. What are the transactions that went over 4

[00:09:50]我們所擁有的各種評估團隊的支持。還有資本市場團隊,比如,瞭解最近的交易情况。超過4的交易有哪些

[00:10:00] billion dollars, for example, and what kind of market we are going for that specific lump sum or what the client is requesting. Another free

[00:10:00]億美元,比如說,我們要在什麼樣的市場上一次性付清,或者客戶要求什麼。另一個免費的

[00:10:10] platform, RCA, obviously, the one I talked about requires a sign up and you got to pay for it. But another free platform, I would say it’s really looking at the

[00:10:10]平臺,RCA,很明顯,我說的那個需要注册,你必須付費。但是另一個免費的平臺,我想說它真的在關注

[00:10:20] rating evaluation department, which they have a popping market statistics. We have all kinds of resources out there that could show you the trajectory of the

[00:10:20]評級評估部門,他們有一個快速的市場統計資料。我們有各種各樣的資源可以告訴你

[00:10:30] rental and capital value market flow. Another one is also the Buildings Department, if you want to look at the go-to-completion where the

[00:10:30]租金和資本價值市場流量。另一個也是建築部,如果你想看看要去哪裡完成的話

[00:10:40] progress instead of going on site and actually check out what’s going on. Actually, buildings apartments show you what are the progress in the development by telling you

[00:10:40]不是去現場,而是去看看到底發生了什麼。事實上,樓房公寓通過告訴你發展的進展來告訴你

[00:10:50] what kind of structure phase they are in. So, I think really this be resourceful. A lot of information is for your benefit, and the government do a really good job in terms of maintaining it. It’s really going

[00:10:50]他們處於什麼樣的結構階段。所以,我覺得這真的很有策略。很多資訊都是為了你的利益,政府在維護方面做得很好。真的很順利

[00:11:00] out there and find it and really have a strong, and maintain your own database, for example, what kind of sectors you’re going for, maintain it and have your own database in terms of going forward. I’m sure different

[00:11:00]找到它,然後真正擁有一個强大的資料庫,並維護您自己的資料庫,例如,您要選擇什麼樣的行業,維護它,並擁有自己的資料庫,以便未來發展。我肯定不一樣

[00:11:10] consultancies have different database, of course, but generally, they should be consistent in terms of the objectives supporting their local teams or their investment.

[00:11:10]當然,諮詢公司有不同的資料庫,但一般來說,他們應該在支持本地團隊或投資的目標方面保持一致。

[00:11:18] Darren Wong: [00:11:18] I see. I think

[00:11:18]Darren Wong:[00:11:18]我明白了。我想

[00:11:20] there’s a cool idea that was just in my head is that, in the end of this whole show, what we can do is to have some links, and some kind of guidance to people where they can find these data. And even the

[00:11:20]有一個很酷的想法就是,在整個節目的最後,我們可以做的是建立一些連結,並對人們在哪裡可以找到這些數據進行某種指導。甚至

[00:11:30] report you said just now about what you have issued recently, and so on, put them all on the show notes. The other cool idea, I mean, there are a lot of times

[00:11:30]你剛才說的關於你最近發佈的內容的報告,等等,把它們都寫在節目筆記上。另一個很酷的想法,我是說,有很多次

[00:11:40] because I used to be working in the real estate fund, and there are reports that we know where the reports are. But a lot of people, let’s say for the audience that might not be familiar real estate, just don’t know where to go. So, I think that

[00:11:40]因為我以前在房地產基金工作,有報導說我們知道報告在哪裡。但很多人,比如說對於觀眾來說可能並不熟悉房地產,只是不知道該去哪裡。所以,我認為

[00:11:50] even though having this kind of episode, pointing out, and then having those kinds of things in the show notes to tell people where they can get, is kind of useful. So just like what you said, there

[00:11:50]即使有這樣的插曲,指出,然後在節目筆記中寫上這些東西,告訴人們他們可以去哪裡,這是很有用的。就像你說的,好吧

[00:12:00] are a lot of different information and methods and sources, right? What kind of audience should leverage and then use it when it conducts market research analysis easily at the [00:12:10] moment?

[00:12:00]有很多不同的資訊、方法和來源,對嗎?在[00:12:10]這一刻,什麼樣的受眾在輕鬆進行市場調研分析時,應該利用並使用它?

[00:12:12] Anthony Wong: [00:12:12] Yeah, what I talked about leveraging is really about being resourceful. So what I talked about previously, besides some of the

[00:12:12]Anthony Wong:[00:12:12]是的,我所說的杠杆作用實際上是關於足智多謀。所以我之前說的,除了一些

[00:12:20] sources that I’ve mentioned previously, is really interacting closely with, as a researcher really, interacting closely with

[00:12:20]我之前提到的資源,作為一名研究人員,與他們的互動非常密切

[00:12:30] local brokers and consulting agents, and getting deeper insight in terms of, besides these data from this information, what is the story behind driving these data?

[00:12:30]此外,從這些經紀人那裡得到的更深入的資訊是什麼?

[00:12:40] For example, if the yields are coming down, or the capital values are going up, what is the reason behind it? Is it because

[00:12:40]例如,如果收益率下降,或者資本價值上升,那麼背後的原因是什麼?是因為

[00:12:50] buyers are withholding the asset price, at the same time the flexible lowering the rental prices? There’s all kinds of a trajectory that

[00:12:50]購房者在預扣資產價格的同時,靈活降低租賃價格?有各種各樣的軌跡

[00:13:00] explained the underlying story behind those numbers. Really kind of doing both qualitative, which I talked about interacting with the people on ground, and

[00:13:00]解釋了這些數位背後的故事。真的是既定性又定性,我談到了和地面上的人互動

[00:13:10] quantitative, which is getting the information from the platform. And what kind of storyline and what kind of trajectory, what kind of POV you giving into

[00:13:10]定量,即從平臺獲取資訊。什麼樣的故事情節,什麼樣的軌跡,什麼樣的觀點

[00:13:20] your research reports, and your local brokers team and your local valuation team? And I think there’s a lot of specific indicators out there: GDP,

[00:13:20]你的研究報告,你當地的經紀人團隊和你當地的評估團隊?我認為有很多具體的名額:GDP,

[00:13:30] employment market stock prices. These are great. But there’s got to be some relation back to the real estate market. What is the story telling?

[00:13:30]就業市場股票價格。這些都很棒。但一定和房地產市場有某種關係。這個故事講的是什麼?

[00:13:37] Darren Wong: [00:13:37] I see.

[00:13:37]Darren Wong:[00:13:37]我明白了。

[00:13:40] Would you mind explaining and providing a walkthrough on a process of different kinds of projects that you can start with, like you found on project new-built and second hand

[00:13:40]您介意解釋一下並提供一個關於不同類型項目的過程的演練,您可以從這些項目開始,就像您在新建項目和二手項目中發現的那樣

[00:13:50] assets. Because I think it’d be good idea to give people a framework and say, hey, if you’re looking for deployment project, this is the framework pretty easily how to find resources and maybe new built and see

[00:13:50]資產。因為我認為給人們一個框架,然後說,嘿,如果你在尋找部署項目,這是一個很容易找到資源和新建的框架

[00:14:00] second hand assets.

[00:14:00]二手資產。

[00:14:02] Anthony Wong: [00:14:02] Yeah, I think they’re quite different in terms of new development,

[00:14:02]Anthony Wong:[00:14:02]是的,我認為他們在新的發展方面是完全不同的,

[00:14:10] development project, new buildings, secondhand asset. They’re managed by different investors, different operators, sometimes in private equity they you do it all.

[00:14:10]開發專案、新建築、二手資產。它們由不同的投資者、不同的運營商管理,有時在私募股權中它們都由你來做。

[00:14:20] But I think development project, I think you start off with, well, I’m a researcher myself, so I’m going to give you a researcher POV, not from a developer

[00:14:20]但我認為開發專案,我認為你應該從,好吧,我自己是一個研究員,所以我要給你一個研究員的觀點,而不是一個開發者

[00:14:30] view. So, as I talked about, really go through the lands department seeing one of the attendant notices by the lands that have been issued by the government right now.

[00:14:30]視圖。所以,正如我所說的,真的要去地政總署看看政府現在發佈的一份土地通告。

[00:14:40] Being aware of the policy address, the budget reports, sometimes they talk about, oh, we are aiming, for example, this year, we’re aiming for

[00:14:40]知道施政報告,預算報告,有時他們會說,哦,我們的目標是,例如,今年,我們的目標是

[00:14:50] 80,000 residential units that’s being injected into the market. And obviously, realistic speaking, how much of that is actually being injected, how much of a goal, so you can analyse

[00:14:50]正在向市場注入80000套住宅。很明顯,從現實的角度來說,有多少是被注入的,有多少是一個目標,所以你可以分析

[00:15:00] that in the past historical performance and see, okay, just because the government said 90,000, actually, in the past, there’s only half that’s been issued for it because of different restrictions

[00:15:00]過去的歷史表現,好吧,就因為政府說9萬,實際上,在過去,因為不同的限制,只有一半是為它發放的

[00:15:10] and time delays and development projects. So, understanding a market from these public platforms, I think newbuilt same as development

[00:15:10]時間延遲和開發專案。所以,從這些公共平臺來理解一個市場,我認為新造和開發是一樣的

[00:15:20] project, look at the buildings department, look at the construction timeline, we, a lot of consulting firms manage their own

[00:15:20]項目,看看建築部,看看施工時間表,我們,很多諮詢公司自己管理

[00:15:30] supply pipeline. So, when it will see when are the buildings being completed. That’s really, really important. And see when is a timing coming in, where’s

[00:15:30]供應筦道。所以,它什麼時候能看到建築什麼時候完工。這真的非常重要。看看什麼時候時機到了,在哪

[00:15:40] the liquidity going? I think, in terms of second-hand asset, that ranges quite a lot. It’s really about the

[00:15:40]流動性如何?我認為,就二手資產而言,這個幅度相當大。真的是關於

[00:15:50] investment side, and the investment side of second-hand asset, is really about knowing your market links. For example, in the capital markets team, it’s really

[00:15:50]投資方面,以及二手資產的投資方面,實際上是瞭解你的市場聯系。例如,在資本市場團隊中

[00:16:00] knowing in depth connections that could lead you to some lucrative transactions. And as a researcher, we just have to analyse what are the great

[00:16:00]深入瞭解可能會導致您進行一些有利可圖的交易的深層次聯系。作為一個研究者,我們只需要分析什麼是偉大的

[00:16:10] transactions in the past, and how that reflects the value of that specific client is buying. So, we give as much information as we

[00:16:10]過去的交易,以及如何反映特定客戶的購買價值。所以,我們提供了盡可能多的資訊

[00:16:20] can in the second-hand asset market and let them decide where are the good project to go for some transaction?

[00:16:20]在二手資產市場,讓他們决定好的項目去哪裡進行交易?

[00:16:28] Darren Wong: [00:16:28] I guess [00:16:30] that’s pretty informative as people framework how to think about it. So, when we met up a couple months ago, and I think that we talked about your

[00:16:28]Darren Wong:[00:16:28]我想[00:16:30]在人們如何思考的框架下,這是一個相當豐富的資訊。所以,幾個月前我們見面的時候,我想我們討論過你

[00:16:40] experience in Greater Bay Area when you are researching in the area, and focusing on that, and I think it’s a great idea to use that as a use case to talk about how to conduct research in the

[00:16:40]當您在大灣區進行研究時,體驗一下該地區的情况,並將其作為一個案例來討論如何在

[00:16:50] emerging markets because a lot of audience might be interested in Malaysia asset b&m asset, and obviously, you’re more in the Greater Bay Area. So I want to talk about your experience with that.

[00:16:50]新興市場,因為很多觀眾可能對馬來西亞資產b&m資產感興趣,而且很明顯,你更多的是在大灣區。所以我想談談你的經歷。

[00:17:00] How is the experience with conducting research in emerging market like the Greater Bay Area? How does that process, is it different than having developed area, is it really hard to find information, many more?

[00:17:00]在大灣區等新興市場開展研究的經驗如何?這個過程和開發區有什麼不同嗎?真的很難找到更多的資訊嗎?

[00:17:11] [00:17:10] Anthony Wong: [00:17:11] Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was in China about a year or so. And really on the south side of China, which is the Greater Bay Area, which they call it.

[00:17:11][00:17:10]安東尼·王:[00:17:11]是的,當然。我是說,我在中國呆了一年左右。在中國的南邊,也就是大灣區,他們稱之為大灣區。

[00:17:20] So these cities included two core cities and nine other second tier cities. The two core, obviously, Shenzhen and Guangzhou, which my offices were based at

[00:17:20]所以這些都市包括兩個覈心都市和九個其他二線都市。很明顯,這兩個覈心,深圳和廣州,我的辦公室就在那裡

[00:17:30] when I was conducting research and advisory business there from another consulting firm. I think it’s a lot different doing research and doing development in China,

[00:17:30]當時我在另一家諮詢公司做研究和諮詢業務。我覺得在中國做研究和開發有很大不同,

[00:17:40] because in the sense that as a researcher, marketing transparency is not as great as Hong Kong. For example, maturity of real estate market information is really, really difficult to retrieve.

[00:17:40]因為從某種意義上說,作為一個研究者,市場行銷透明度不如香港。比如,房地產市場的成熟度資訊確實很難檢索。

[00:17:50] There’s no united platform, as I talked about things like EPRC, which shows all the transaction for not that expensive

[00:17:50]沒有統一的平臺,就像我談到的EPRC一樣,它顯示所有的交易,而不是那麼昂貴

[00:18:00] mountain subscription fee, or lands apartment or buildings department where you can just go directly and get the information. And so I think transparency is really a one big thing. They

[00:18:00]山地訂閱費,或土地公寓或建築部,您可以直接前往獲取資訊。所以我認為透明度是一件大事。他們

[00:18:10] do have a platform called CREIS, which is the China Real Estate Intelligence System. And that is a hefty heavy price subscription allowing real estate

[00:18:10]有一個叫做CREIS的平臺,就是中國房地產情報系統。這是一筆巨大的高價認購,允許房地產

[00:18:20] petitioners to gain access to, for example, land values, residential transaction. But again, the downside is that how much of that data is accurate in China, because

[00:18:20]申請者獲得土地價值、住宅交易等資訊。但另一方面,中國的數據有多少是準確的,因為

[00:18:30] sometimes data has always been something that we as a researcher is concerned about. So, doing real estate research, compared

[00:18:30]作為一名研究人員,有時數據一直是我們關心的問題。所以,做房地產研究,比較

[00:18:40] to Hong Kong, takes a lot more time in the sense that we have to, instead of just relying on the data, sometimes you have to go on site and verify, is this project completed, and is this

[00:18:40]到香港,需要更多的時間,因為我們必須,而不是僅僅依賴數據,有時你必須去現場核實,這個項目是否已經完成,這是不是

[00:18:50] development actually has that much of a tendency in terms of vacancy. So when I was working and travelling between two cities and

[00:18:50]發展實際上在空缺方面有很大的趨勢。所以當我在兩個城市之間工作和旅行時

[00:19:00] Shenzhen, give you an example. My team members and I have to visit a lot of undeveloped office sites. For example, in Guangzhou and the south side, there’s a

[00:19:00]深圳,舉個例子。我和我的團隊成員不得不參觀許多未開發的辦公地點。例如,在廣州和南區,有一個

[00:19:10] second tier city called Foshan, luckily, we had a company car so we can go there, but we have to actually visit these retail sites and see

[00:19:10]二線都市佛山,幸運的是,我們有一輛公司的車,所以我們可以去那裡,但我們必須去這些零售點看看

[00:19:20] what other vacancies going on there. And we have to talk to local brokers to understand what are the situation that’s been going on in the market in terms of retail,

[00:19:20] 那裡還有什麼空缺。我們必須和當地的經紀人談談,瞭解零售市場的情况,

[00:19:30] walking through different models and analysing the guesstimation of what the vacancy rates are because it’s hard to really, really retrieve those data in

[00:19:30]瀏覽不同的模型,分析空置率的猜測,因為很難真正、真正地檢索到這些數據

[00:19:40] China. So, I think doing research in China requires a lot of time, patience, years of experience, being in the market

[00:19:40]中國。所以,我認為在中國做研究需要大量的時間,耐心,多年的經驗,在市場上

[00:19:50] and really swimming along it and having deeper connections with the local investors. When you thought about doing China, relationships number one really important.

[00:19:50]並且真正地遊走於此,並與當地投資者建立了更深入的聯系。當你在做一個重要的關係的時候。

[00:20:00] So these clean market players, they give you a lot of insights in terms of making the job a lot easier.

[00:20:00]所以這些清潔市場的參與者,他們給了你很多關於讓工作更輕鬆的見解。

[00:20:06] Darren Wong: [00:20:06] I feel like we should ask Gary just to find the data for us,

[00:20:06]Darren Wong:[00:20:06]我覺得我們應該讓Gary幫我們找到數據,

[00:20:10] because there is so much hassle. And then I think there’s similar stories that when people told me about, when a couple years ago, half a half a decade ago, they

[00:20:10]因為麻煩太多了。我覺得有類似的故事,當人們告訴我,幾年前,5年前,他們

[00:20:20] went to Vietnam or Malaysia, same thing is that like, they have a very, very hard time. And obviously, right now because the demand is so high, they start building the whole infrastructure of data and information. But before that was

[00:20:20]去了越南或馬來西亞,同樣的事情是,他們的日子非常非常非常艱難。顯然,現在由於需求如此之高,他們開始構建數據和資訊的整個基礎設施。但在那之前

[00:20:30] really that, even you want to find out what’s going on, you got to be fly all the way there, be on the ground, you have to have two hours car ride, bumpy car ride, really measure

[00:20:30]真的,即使你想知道發生了什麼事,你也必須一路飛到那裡,趴在地上,你必須有兩個小時的車程,顛簸的車程,真正的量測

[00:20:40] every single thing to know what the hell is going on, because the data wasn’t there. So I think these are things that like office for emerging market, that’s the tricky part. And then which comes to

[00:20:40]每件事都要知道到底發生了什麼,因為沒有數據。所以我認為這些都像是新興市場辦公室,這是個棘手的問題。然後是哪一個

[00:20:50] the next question. What are some tips and insight you will share with the audience, especially when it comes to locally and abroad? Or in this case, emerging markets when the data is not as available?

[00:20:50]下一個問題。你將與觀眾分享哪些技巧和見解,尤其是在涉及本地和國外時?或者在這種情況下,新興市場的數據在什麼時候是不可用的?

[00:21:02] [00:21:00] Anthony Wong: [00:21:02] Yeah, I have worked in China, wouldn’t say a long time, and Hong Kong, a little more familiar with. I would say,

[00:21:02] [00:21:00] Anthony Wong: [00:21:02]對,再熟悉一點,我就不會在香港工作了。我會說,

[00:21:10] doing good research is about do what you can, honestly. Be open minded and resourceful, and talk to as many people, so if you want to go to a different

[00:21:10]誠實地說,做好研究就是盡你所能。思想開放,足智多謀,和盡可能多的人交談,所以如果你想去一個不同的地方

[00:21:20] country to do your investment, not just only ask a couple brokers, is this a good site to invest or are you took a plane trip there, and then

[00:21:20]國家做你的投資,不僅僅是問幾個經紀人,這是一個投資的好地方還是你坐飛機去那裡,然後

[00:21:30] “Oh, I like this place, that seems like a good vacation place”? But also really knowing the people, real estate is about community. So knowing what kind of location that

[00:21:30]“哦,我喜歡這個地方,那看起來是個不錯的度假勝地”?但也真正瞭解人,房地產是關於社區的。所以知道什麼樣的地點

[00:21:40] you’re intended to invest? What kind of community residents that gives you the sense of safety, sense of good education, good school boundaries? These are really, really important. And really make use of

[00:21:40]你打算投資?什麼樣的社區居民能給你安全感、良好的教育意識、良好的學校邊界?這些真的非常重要。真正地利用

[00:21:50] the resources that is provided by the local government. And Hong Kong, we’re really privileged to have a lot of resources that is issued out there. For emerging market, not so much, so

[00:21:50]當地政府提供的資源。而香港,我們真的很榮幸有很多資源是在那裡發行的。對於新興市場來說,不算太多,所以

[00:22:00] sometimes you might have to spend a little more time, a little more money, and a little more liquidity in terms of knowing the market or even worse. But the upside is that there’s more gains on

[00:22:00]有時候你可能需要花更多的時間、更多的錢和更多的流動性來瞭解市場,甚至更糟。但有利的一面是會有更多的收益

[00:22:10] top of saturated market like Hong Kong. Second of all, be really analytical and insightful. How to spot trends, as I talked about really read a

[00:22:10]香港等飽和市場的頂端。其次,要有分析力和洞察力。如何發現趨勢,就像我說的那樣

[00:22:20] lot of market news. Sometimes this news might give you a really good suspense, but how much is that actually reflecting the market, right? So really be

[00:22:20]很多市場新聞。有時候這條新聞可能會給你一個很好的懸念,但這實際上反映了市場多少,對吧?真的嗎

[00:22:30] critical in terms of some of news outlets. And also, be both quantitative and qualitative. Don’t just rely on data, rely on talking to different people and

[00:22:30]對一些新聞媒體來說很關鍵。而且,既要定量又要定性。不要只依賴數據,要依賴於與不同的人交談和

[00:22:40] understanding where the sources are coming. At the end of the day, you really start off real estate. Because real estate, everything

[00:22:40]瞭解資訊來源的來源。歸根結底,你真的要從房地產開始。因為房地產,一切

[00:22:50] is about location, right? So really understanding the locational context of it, from transportation, to building

[00:22:50]是關於位置的,對吧?所以要真正理解它的地理環境,從交通到建築

[00:23:00] highways, to geopolitical stability, to Macro, all kind of stuff. I think these are all really essential in terms of investing elsewhere in a place that you’re not

[00:23:00]高速公路,地緣政治穩定,Mac,各種各樣的東西。我認為這些都是投資其他地方的必要條件

[00:23:10] familiar with, for example, in emerging markets.

[00:23:10]熟悉新興市場。

[00:23:12] Darren Wong: [00:23:12] I think there’s a very good takeaway, because that’s something it’s easier said than done. It is a lot of homework, but you’ve got to do it because you’re

[00:23:12]Darren Wong:[00:23:12]我認為有一個非常好的外賣,因為這是說起來容易做起來難的事情。工作太多了,但你必須做,因為你

[00:23:20] putting years of savings into something that you might not get return or get a good return that is expected until years afterward. So before we jump into the

[00:23:20]把多年的積蓄投入到一些你可能得不到回報或是很好的回報的東西上,而這些東西要等到幾年後才能得到回報。所以在我們跳進

[00:23:30] data centre topic for the audience, maybe it just ends right here. How would they return to you to find out more about your work and yourself?

[00:23:30]針對觀眾的資料中心主題,也許就在這裡結束。他們會如何回到你身邊去瞭解你的工作和你自己?

[00:23:40] [00:23:39] Anthony Wong: [00:23:39] Yeah, for sure. So really, our work is really publicly available. You know, a lot of people don’t make use of it. We do a lot of consulting projects that you guys are

[00:23:40][00:23:39]安東尼·王:[00:23:39]是的,當然。所以說真的,我們的工作是公開的。你知道,很多人都不利用它。我們做了很多諮詢專案

[00:23:50] more welcome to check it out. It’s in the Colliers International website. And you go on, there’s a research tab that you click on research. And inside, there’s different sectors and you select

[00:23:50]歡迎大家來看看。在高力國際的網站上。你繼續,有一個研究標籤,你點擊研究。在裡面,有不同的區域,你可以選擇

[00:24:00] whatever region that you want to invest in, for example, you want to go with Malaysia, we have Malaysian quarterly reports that shows four or five different sectors office, industrial, retail, residential,

[00:24:00]無論你想投資哪個地區,例如,你想和馬來西亞一起投資,我們有馬來西亞的季度報告,顯示了四到五個不同的行業:辦公、工業、零售、住宅,

[00:24:10] capital markets that we publish reports consistently. So anyone who’s interested in the market, make use of the resource that we produce, because we want to help clients, we want to develop client relationships to

[00:24:10]我們一貫發佈報告的資本市場。所以任何對市場感興趣的人,都要利用我們生產的資源,因為我們想幫助客戶,我們想發展客戶關係

[00:24:20] go there. But honestly, we are really personal. So if you want to reach out to me personally, add me on LinkedIn, Anthony Wong. I’ve been called Colliers

[00:24:20]去那裡。但老實說,我們真的很私人。所以,如果你想親自聯系我,請在LinkedIn上加上我,安東尼·黃。我被稱為科利爾

[00:24:30] International, and you can find me there or reach out to my email via anthony.wong@colliers.com. I’m always able to help you find real estate

[00:24:30]國際,您可以在那裡找到我或通過安東尼·王@高力網.我總能幫你找房地產

[00:24:40] solutions or giving you just basic guidance in terms of career path, you want to go into the real estate or real estate research.

[00:24:40]解決方案或者只是在職業道路上給你一些基本的指導,你想要進入房地產或房地產研究。

[00:24:47] Darren Wong: [00:24:47] Yeah, obviously I’ll ensure all the links we

[00:24:47]Darren Wong:[00:24:47]是的,顯然我會確保我們所有的連結

[00:24:50] said before, the links for different public information and obviously Colliers, for example, the information you have, the report you have and the contact information. So for the people who are

[00:24:50]前面說過,不同公共資訊的連結,顯然是打給你的,比如你掌握的資訊、你掌握的報告和聯繫方式。所以對於那些

[00:25:00] interested to learn more about data centre, we are going to have a nice episode coming up within less than a week time, and then yeah, that’s it.

[00:25:00]有興趣瞭解更多有關資料中心的資訊,我們將在不到一周的時間內推出一集精彩的節目,然後是的,就這樣。

[00:25:07] Anthony Wong: [00:25:07] I’m looking

[00:25:07]安東尼·王:[00:25:07]我在找

[00:25:10] forward to it.

[00:25:10]前進。

[00:25:10] Darren Wong: [00:25:10] Yeah, for sure.

[00:25:10]Darren Wong:[00:25:10]是的,當然。

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

South Korean Real Estate For Beginners With Leo Wong


South Korean Real Estate For Beginners With Leo Wong

There are a lot of talks with the South Korea real estate market. We want to give an introductory video to allow overseas investors to know about the South Korea real estate market and discover where the opportunities are.

▶ Connect with the guest

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/leo-wong-067370146/

▶ Source & Supporting:

2030 Seoul plan: https://www.seoulsolution.kr/en/content/2030-seoul-plan

CHFT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zw3vT-BxJpdwtkAyLmdt4xHLZMFj7cam/view?usp=sharing

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As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript

Darren Wong: Hey, Leo, thanks for coming in.

Leo: Hey, hi, Darren, thank you for inviting me.

Darren Wong: Would you mind telling the audience about yourself?

Leo: My name is Leo Wong and I represent Fonto real estate. We are a firm of mostly  development projects in many different places around the world. Currently, we are most concentrated in San Francisco, the Bay Area in the United States. And also in South Korea. We already have some completed projects in those cities, and we’re looking to expand soon, just probably waiting for the economic situation to improve a bit. And then we’ll get ready and push out our products.

Darren Wong: I see. Yeah, it’s interesting because when I talk to your team, I really feel that it’s good that you guys cover different regions, and today we focus on South Korea, because a lot of people always tell me, “Hey, I want to invest in different places in Asia.” And myself, I’m not very familiar with South Korea so it’s good to have someone like you tell the audience and myself more about it. So for them and myself who might not understand the regions of South Korea, would you mind giving a brief introduction and description of how the city’s made up? And then what are a few areas that overseas investors tend to invest in? Lastly, what is the opportunity in terms of a macro point of view in the next few years?

Leo: Okay, sure. Let me kind of give a macro picture of the whole country first and then we’ll drill into Seoul, which is the major attention. First, administratively, South Korea has one special city, which is Seoul, and one special self governance city which is Sejong, and six metropolitan cities, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, Dajeon, Ulsan and Gwangju, and except these eight major cities, all lands are divided into a total of nine provinces called Bo, including one special autonomous province, that’s Jeju Island. And all these cities and toll on the same administrative regions. So if you’re familiar with the system in Japan, for example, then it’s pretty similar. So they have Philly, special cities, and then they have other prefectures. Okay. So, if we drill into Seoul now, especially, then, let me explain some of the major areas. So there are three major business districts within Seoul. The central business district, there’s the hongyun area, and then the second one is called Gangnam district, okay, oh, we call it Gangnam. And then the third one is called Yeouido business district. So, basically, just for ease of references, we call the first one CBD to central business district and then the second one is GBD, G for Gangnam and end of third this YDP which is the Yeong-deungpo. And these three main business district in Seoul houses about about 67% of the city’s largest office buildings. And while the first one, CBD tends to have a mixture of tenants such as news agencies, financial institutions and government agencies GBD tends to have more tenants from the IT sector and YDP tends to have more tenants from the financial industries, because it also  houses the KRX which is the Korean Stock Exchange. And one thing to note is that CBD and GBD are not just business districts, but they are also very famous for shopping, okay, CBD is within walking distance from Myeongdong, which has a lot of mainstream brands and GBD also has a lot of luxurious brands, flagships of course. And the second thing about the geographic features of Seoul is that it is divided in half by the Han River, okay. The local people called the area on the north shore of the river, Gangbuk. So, gang is the river in pok east north, okay. And area south of the Han River is Gangnam. So in this case, the word Gangnam is used differently. The first one is just referring to the GBD. In the second use is referring to the whole area south of the Han River. So in the 70s 1970s, over about 75% of Seouls population live in Gangbuk and Gangnam was at that time mostly farmland, and the government wish to diversify the population and to also cool down the Gangbuk real estate prices as they’re already tons of demands at that time on the lands of Gangbuk. The government limits new constructions in Gangbuk, starting in 1972, and encourages the development in Gangnam. So as a result, Gangnam’s real estate prices have started to skyrocket. And as a 2020 Gangnam has become the richest neighborhood not only in Seoul, but in entire South Korea. So it’s pretty ironic, you know, Gangnam was already developed to cool down Gangbuk. And now Gangnam becomes very expensive by his own right. And also Seoul has several satellite cities, just like most of the really big cities in the world, and the surrounding regions, okay including those satellite cities, is what we call Sudogwon. Collectively, it means the capital area in Korea, and some of the more well known satellite cities are Incheon,  Seongnam and Suwon. In properly some people already notice that the airport we use for to travel to Seoul is in Incheon.

Leo: Yeah, and let me also give some background about macroeconomics. Now, for Korea it has a severe aging populations just similar to the neighboring countries like Japan and in other developed countries like Germany or like France, okay. So, the fertility rate is continuously decreasing and the government expected in 2029, the population growth rate is expected to turn negative, the life expectancy has been steadily increasing so, people are getting older okay, and probably due to the improving medicine. So, in terms of the overall demographic structure it has been changing and expected to affect the country’s economy in the next decade. The population age 65 or above is expected to exceed 20% of the total population by 2025. And this age group, the population of this age group is expected to exceed 40% by 2051. So there’s really a large proportion of the whole population. So, in this case, the supply of labor will decrease because a lot of people are already really old and already retired and people will start saving more money for retirement, okay. So, in the simplest sense, more savings means less consumption, okay. And also according to the statistical department, the average number of household members is expected to decrease from about 2.5 persons in 2017 to about 2 in 2047. So, this decrease means that as time goes on, there will be more single person households. And as of now, many of the single person household members are in their 20s or 30s. But in the long run, they will become older. So, this decrease in single person households is likely to affect consumption patterns. And finally, I think another important factor to consider is the populations concentration in Seoul. While Seouls total land area is just about like 0.6% of the entire country, around 20% of the country’s population reside in Seoul. So urbanization is very severe, and it is expected to further accelerate while the population especially young people is flowing into capital areas, such as Seoul and the capital city, the metropolitan area, including the satellite cities, the population in non capital areas has been steadily decreasing over the past decades. And this occurs to some metropolitan cities as well, such as Busan. And they’re already young people flowing out of those big cities other than Seoul.

Leo: So let me talk about some of the promising area in businesses. Because of the increase in single person households that I just mentioned, the online purchase market is expanding, and more and more items are available online. In the past few years, the online food shopping has been a hit in South Korea, to store fruits, meat and vegetable, in fresh state a lot of more warehouses are in demand and were built. The new supply of warehouses in the capital city area was more than 2 million square meters in 2019. And difficult was about two times of the new supply in the year 2016/2017. So this trend is expected to only accelerate in the next few years, because as we are now facing COVID-19, more customers are turning to online malls to do their shoppings online.

Darren Wong: That’s very informative, because even from your explanation, I can see a lot of detail of what it’s going to become in a long term prospect. So you know, you mentioned a lot of different areas, a lot different things, do you think some of those areas are overrated for foreign investors?

Leo: I think from our perspective, we look at some of the really important sectors of whether the demand or the supply of an area are determined. And let me try to start from the beginning. To give the short answer first, is that I think currently Jeju islands is quite overrated. So in general, the most important determining factor of the real estate prices, at least in South Korea is the availability of jobs. For example, in South Chungcheong province,  Cheonan’s their house prices has been on the rise in the past decade because it is where the SK Hynix plants are built. So on the other hand, in the same province in a very similar locality,  Gongju and Buyeo, they’re very famous for cultural Heritage’s. So for example, they have much more tourists, but they have much less jobs. So in our understanding the property prices has risen much less. So we believe this fact that the availability of jobs in the region is the probably the most important determining factor for the real estate prices. So if there are more jobs, except of course, like, you know, jobs related to tourism, then there would be more people and more demands, and so the housing prices would rise. And in this perspective, Seoul has overwhelmingly more jobs than in any other areas in South Korea. And within Seoul itself, the GBD the Gangnam district has about 1.5 million white collar jobs. And the combined population in Busan and Daegu, the two major metropolitan cities in South Korea is 5 million. So from this, we see that Seoul real estate prices, especially in Gangnam, is bound to keep rising, even if the government has introduced a series of regulation in the past few years to inhibit Gangnams housing price rise, it is inevitable that the region’s real estate prices will keep rising. So we think that Seoul’s real estate prices are not overrated now and it’s a right decision to invest in the city, especially this Gangnam region with a strong fundamental support. And in contrast, Jeju Island is very heavily reliant on tourist industry in also Chinese capitals. And as we see in the recent months, the unstable relationship between the Chinese government and South Korean government and also COVID-19, the tourists from China and also Chinese capital have been decreasing in the past two years. So, Jeju Island also does not have a lot of white collar jobs or industrial jobs that could attract people to relocate to Jeju. So the real estate prices in Jeju Island has decreased in the past few years. And for this reason, the same reason we think that investing Jeju Island right now is not a good option. And also where in Seoul should investors explore other than the three city centers, we suggest investors to look at a information called the 2030 Seoul plan. And that is the urban master plan that Seoul Metropolitan Government announced in 2017. Okay, so from that plan, you can see that the government selected three city centers and also seven sub centers. And while the city centers already have a lot of jobs, we assume that in the seven sub centers and regional centers, jobs and residents will increase in the coming decades. So whether it’s a flat or small stakes for property, we believe that it’s profitable to invest in those areas, or at least the areas that have easy transportation connections with those areas. So we should pay attention to those places where jobs are about to increase. And we believe that if there are jobs, then there will be people and there will be demand for real estate.

Darren Wong: I see. But how would we suggest differently for investors that are either planning to sell to use or investment only?

Leo: I just mentioned before, the real estate market is rising especially in the hot areas that we just mentioned. The current South Korean government is strongly against individuals owning more than one residential unit. So they have introduced 18 new regulations since 2018. The same applies to non South Korean nationals purchasing residential real estate in Korea. So we strongly recommend not to buy more than one property or otherwise one will be subject to very high tax.

Darren Wong: I see. When it comes to tax, right, what kind of tax and how much would an oversea investor be taxed at?

Leo: As of now the overseas investors are subject to the same taxation as South Koreans, locals when it comes to owning properties. In other words, currently, there is no taxation that specifically bars foreigners from investing in South Korean real estate. There are about four, there are four major tax or levies to the government. The first one is a Stamp Duty, okay. And it could be up to USD $320, depending on the federal property, and the stamp duties come comparatively low compared to other countries. But there’s also another thing called the Acquisition tax, it ranges from 1% to 4% depending on the value of the property, okay, and also like its location. And there’s the third tax, which is called the Withholding tax, it ranges between 6% to 40% depending on the property value. This Withholding tax is very similar to property tax in other jurisdiction that you have to pay periodically, as long as you hold the property. And finally, there’s the Capital Gains tax. These capital gains tax is again, the nature is well known to most investors. Basically, it looks at the capital gain, that means the increase or appreciation in value between the time that you purchase the property and the value you sell the property and the difference would be the basis of the taxation.

Darren Wong: I see. How does COVID-19 impact the market and what are some opportunities investors should look at right now?

Leo: Due to COVID-19, as mentioned before, ecommerce is in more demand than ever. So there’s now more robust demand for logistics spaces, especially those with low temperatures to store vegetables. Another potential opportunity lies in smaller size offices. Due to COVID-19, some large scale companies reclassified their employees into smaller groups based on their residence and asks them to work at different offices for for the time being. And likewise, it is being that COVID-19 may be a stimulus for the decentralizing work scheme in the near future.

Darren Wong: I see. Like I think everything you said so far is so informative that even in my head, that picture is very clear on the opportunity. Beyond that, what are some tips and advice you would suggest to the audience? And is there anything they should be aware of when it comes to investing in South Korea’s real estate market?

Leo: I think we briefly talked about this. If one is to invest in residential property, then we should consider just investing in one property, rather than multiple properties because currently government’s letting high taxation upon those who own more than one property and also in Korea, the demand for hotel depends a lot on the number of Chinese tourists. This means that if the relationship between the People’s Republic of China in South Korea becomes more unstable then hospitality industry will get a large impact after the COVID-19 recovery, and of course, unless we see that the South Korean tourists market, the composition, changes to a much more touristy place from countries other than PRC otherwise then this is still a risk to hospitality investors.

Darren Wong: I see. You know, I have one more question because it’s something that my friend has asked me to ask you. It’s that, are there any hip places that a lot of younger crowds are willing to pay more rent for? In addition, where are a few places that a lot of more commercial activities are working in Seoul and that is worth looking into?

Leo: Well, in Seoul, you can classify the cities into different kinds of districts, namely the financial wealth district, hipstore districts, tourist education, and residential and two of the really popular so called hip places are Hongdae and Leetaewon, seems like early 2000s. But in the past decade that means from about 2010 to recently, it’s been undergoing refurbishment certification, so a lot of artists cafe and small size restaurants have moved out. Also in the past decade, Yeonnam-dong and Seongsu-dong has gained a lot of popularity among young people and they are quickly rising as hip places. Yeonnam-dong is located near Hongdae, the area has been a middle class residential district since the 70s. But instead of the high rise apartments, the area was mostly made up of about three storeys houses since the opening of Gyeongui Line the forest park nearby in 2016. The area went through a lot of commercialization, and several houses in Yeonnam-dong changed their usage in the past decade and became cafes and restaurants. Also, Seongsu-dong is located opposite to the GBD Gangnam business district across the Han River. So there’s a subway line and it takes around 20 minutes from Seongsu-dong to GBD. The area in Seongsu-dong used to be heavily industrial. We have a lot of small factories and workshops. But the artists and cafe owners from Hongdae started to move into this area, and they renovated the old factory size and turned them into from what’s crusty to rusty-interior design cafes and restaurants. And we contributed a lot to changing the overall atmosphere of these districts.

Darren Wong: It’s good. I mean, next time I’ll ask you which cafe to go to. It’s very informative. Thank you so much. Because I think, even for me you supplied some good photos and maps and everything to me. I’ll put everything in the show notes. And even during this video, we can go side by side with different stuff where people can see, trace it, and be like “Okay, this is what it looks like and what cities there.”  So, for people who are interested to look and talk to you more about South Korea’s real estate, how can they reach out to you and talk to you further?

Leo: I will leave my email address to you and they would be able to assess me directly. And that would primarily be the way we conduct communication between our staff and our potential customers.

Darren Wong: I get it. Okay, I’ll obviously put everything in the show notes. So I just want to say thank you so much for a very informative interview. And then hopefully next time you come in, you can tell us more about San Francisco, what’s going on over there.

Leo: Well, thank you very much.

Darren Wong: Thank you and have a good one, then.

Leo: You too.

Darren Wong: Bye.

Leo: Bye.


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Denzity Insights: Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks


Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks

Connect with Gordon:

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordon-franks-19279715/
  • WeChat: LFSHKGordon 
  • Email: gordonfranks@lfsbrokers.com 

Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks

In the past, we had an episode covering the United Kingdom real estate market, focusing on London. Since many investors are interested in regions outside of London in the United Kingdom, we’ve decided to invite Gordon, a real estate agent and mortgage broker, to share his insights on those regions. We have covered topics such as:

  • The areas overseas investors tend to invest in the United Kingdom
  • The areas that are overrated or underrated
  • The market outlook
  • And more.

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Sources

Lifestyle Brokers: https://www.lfsbrokers.com

NOMA Regeneration: https://www.noma-manchester.com

HS Two Rail Link: https://www.hs2.org.uk

Stamp Duty: Stamp duty is a kind of tax that is imposed in the form of stamps on legal documents by the government while buying a property.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stampduty.asp

Capital Appreciation: Capital appreciation or capital gain is an increase in the value of any investment.

https://www.fool.com/millionacres/real-estate-basics/real-estate-terms/what-capital-appreciation/

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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