PropTech is making waves in Hong Kong – a city that used to rely heavily on traditional real estate practices. Covid restrictions have forced the real estate industry to innovate and accelerate its digital transformation, although often to mixed results. Here we have PropTech pioneer, Leo Lo, to talk more about this thriving trend and what businesses should look out for.
▶ Key Discussion:
- PropTech 101
- PropTech Accelerating
- PropTech Trends in 2020
- Why PropTech in Hong Kong starts slow
- Real estate embraces innovation
- About Asia PropTech
▶ Connect with Leo:
▶ Source & Supporting:
PropTech (Property Tech): “PropTech” is a recent buzzword in commercial real estate. Similar to “FinTech” (‘finance + technology”), PropTech is a movement in the real estate market toward efficient systems rooted in exploring the digital landscape and tending to new consumption patterns. https://www.common.com/blog/2019/06/what-is-proptech-and-why-companies-are-developing-it/
ConTech (Construction Tech): ConTech is basically the technology used to innovate the way we plan, design, and build structures, as well as the manufacture and installation of their components. ConTech is, in fact, PropTech, due to the overlap that naturally arises between the two. https://medium.com/@OROCON_PRIME/what-is-contech-afaa8943691
Asia PropTech: Established in 2016, Asia PropTech is a community/association that connects PropTech players and industry stakeholders in Asia. It aspires to promote the adoption of PropTech in Asia and facilitate intra-regional trade in PropTech through events, knowledge sharing and management, and strategic partnership with PropTech peer organizations in Europe and the United States. https://www.asiaprop.tech/about-apt
UK PropTech Association: The UK PropTech Association (UKPA) is a not-for-profit membership organisation set up to drive the digital transformation of the property industry by promoting engagement between PropTech and Property businesses, and creating an environment conducive for PropTech innovation. https://ukproptech.com/about/
Global PropTech: Global PropTech is the first and leading global innovation platform for the real estate and construction sector. The platform focuses on developing insights, sharing knowledge between different countries, and matchmaking in order to create a future-proof industry. https://www.globalproptech.online/about-us/
Chartered surveyor: A Chartered Surveyor is a specialist who assesses properties for defects, future issues or problems. They can also work out the value of a property. www.reallymoving.com/surveyors/guides/what-is-a-chartered-surveyor
Automated valuation model (AVM): Automated Valuation Model (AVM) is a term for a service that uses mathematical or statistical modeling combined with databases of existing properties and transactions to calculate real estate values. The majority of automated valuation models (AVMs) compare the values of similar properties at the same point in time. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/automated-valuation-model.asp
Smart City: In general, a smart city is a city that uses technology to provide services and solve city problems. A smart city does things like improve transportation and accessibility, improve social services, promote sustainability, and give its citizens a voice. https://blog.bismart.com/en/what-is-a-smart-city
FinTech: Fintech is the term used to refer to innovations in the financial and technology crossover space, and typically refers to companies or services that use technology to provide financial services to businesses or consumers. https://www.thestreet.com/technology/what-is-fintech-14885154#:~:text=Fintech%20is%20the%20term%20used,services%20to%20businesses%20or%20consumers.
MLS Platform: The MLS is a tool to help listing brokers find cooperative brokers working with buyers to help sell their clients’ homes. Without the collaborative incentive of the existing MLS, brokers would create their own separate systems of cooperation, fragmenting rather than consolidating property information. https://www.nar.realtor/nar-doj-settlement/multiple-listing-service-mls-what-is-it
Virtual Reality: Virtual reality (VR) refers to a computer-generated simulation in which a person can interact within an artificial three-dimensional environment using electronic devices, such as special goggles with a screen or gloves fitted with sensors. In this simulated artificial environment, the user is able to have a realistic-feeling experience. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/virtual-reality.asp
Augmented Reality: Augmented reality (AR) is an enhanced version of the real physical world that is achieved through the use of digital visual elements, sound, or other sensory stimuli delivered via technology. It is a growing trend among companies involved in mobile computing and business applications in particular. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/augmented-reality.asp
Building Information Modelling (BIM): Building Information Modeling (BIM) is an intelligent 3D model-based process that gives architecture, engineering, and construction (AEC) professionals the insight and tools to more efficiently plan, design, construct, and manage buildings and infrastructure. https://www.autodesk.com/solutions/bim#:~:text=Building%20Information%20Modeling%20(BIM)%20is,and%20manage%20buildings%20and%20infrastructure.
Country Garden: Established in September 2017, Country Garden Properties (Hong Kong) Limited (Country Garden Hong Kong) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Country Garden Holdings Company Limited (stock code: 2007.HK). Country Garden Hong Kong has two residential projects currently under development, one is Altissimo in Yiu Sha Road, Ma On Shan and the other is in Carpenter Road, Kowloon City. https://www.countrygardenhk.com/en/aboutus
28Houses: 28Hse provides information for the Hong Kong property market, including latest property listings by agents and landlords, property transaction data, market news, used furniture trading etc. https://data.gov.hk/en/application/28hse
Evergrande: The Evergrande Group or the Evergrande Real Estate Group (previously Hengda Group) is China’s second-largest property developer by sales. It is based in southern China’s Guangdong Province, and sells apartments mostly to upper and middle-income dwellers. As of 2018, it is the world’s most valuable real estate company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergrande_Group
SoftBank: SoftBank got its start in 1981 in Tokyo. Founded as a telecommunications company, SoftBank now has a hand in a number of different areas, including e-commerce, finance, broadband, marketing, and more. The company has a portfolio including SoftBank BB, GungHo Online Entertainment, IDC Frontier, and more. In recent years, it has gone on a spending spree, buying up numerous smaller companies and initiating investments in many others. https://www.investopedia.com/news/what-softbank/
Katerra: Katerra is putting modern technology to work at all levels of building design and construction to help address some of the industry’s most entrenched challenges, utilizing many of the disciplines, processes, and technologies that drove the extraordinary productivity gains of industrialized industries over the last 50 years. We work in a growing number of construction market sectors – including multifamily, senior, affordable housing, educational, industrial, hospitality, medical, and commercial developments. https://www.katerra.com/faq/
Unicorn (for startup): A unicorn is a term used in the venture capital industry to describe a privately held startup company with a value of over $1 billion. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unicorn.asp
Li Ka-Shing: Nicknamed Superman, Li Ka-shing is revered as one of the most influential businessmen in Asia. https://www.forbes.com/profile/li-ka-shing/
BlockChain: Blockchain is a specific type of database.It differs from a typical database in the way it stores information; blockchains store data in blocks that are then chained together. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blockchain.asp
Cyberport: Cyberport is an innovative digital community with over 1,500 start-ups and technology companies. It is managed by Hong Kong Cyberport Management Company Limited, which is wholly owned by the Hong Kong SAR Government. https://www.cyberport.hk/en/about_cyberport/about_overview#:~:text=Cyberport%20is%20an%20innovative%20digital,the%20Hong%20Kong%20SAR%20Government.
Shih Wing-Ching: Shih Wing-ching iis a Hong Kong businessman. His family are from Ningbo in Zhejiang but he came to Hong Kong at an early age. In 1978 he established Centaline Property Agency Limited, which is now one of the largest property agencies in both Hong Kong and China. https://bit.ly/2KUpEqZ
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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
Darren Wong: So Leo, welcome to the show.
Leo Lo: Hello Darren.
Darren Wong: So it’s interesting, right? Because I know you for four or five years and I always said that you’re someone that I’ve learned about property tech through you and you inspired me a lot. So obviously, like I would say, thanks through this medium first about you inspiring me. And then I want the audience know more about your work, and obviously about Asia Proptech. So would you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself, your work, and then what you’re working on?
Leo Lo: All right. So yeah, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to be one of your interviewees for your video. And thanks for setting up this because I think it’s quite meaningful to let the property players and the investors know more about the innovations in the real estate industry. First of all, myself, my name is Leo Lo. Actually, my background, I’m a chartered estate surveyor. So suppose I work in a very traditional real estate, investment, financing, and land matters related industry. So I’m now working on both things, one is more on the traditional side, and running my own business in a real estate consultancy, and also, with the investment, we also do boutique real estate development in other countries. At the same time, we also start proptech some years ago, I established Asian PropTech, probably the first proptech dedicated community found in Asia Pacific region. I started in 2016. At the moment of time, there were not many people talking about proptech. So I felt very excited. And also lonely when I talk about proptech at that time, and later on, I think I knew you from some event, I forgot that. You’re so passionate about the innovations in real estate, I appreciated it. And now, after several years, especially for the first one to two years, we spent a lot of effort in connecting the people in Europe and North America, who are interested in proptech. Somehow Asia is lagging behind, comparatively speaking, maybe two, three years. So, in 2016, in 2017, Asia PropTech got a lot of connections with those European counterparts. They have so many proptech associations, like the UK proptech, German proptech, or Global proptech, you name it. I also myself, was always invited by them to speak about proptech scene in Asia, to share with them about the proptech situation and development in the Asia Pacific region. For these one to two years, I think the whole proptech scene becomes very active in Asia Pacific region, especially the developers here, the estate investors here, they are all keen on looking forward to some innovations that can be brought to their projects, how to add values to their projects, etc. So, so that’s Asia PropTech. And we are now providing few things to the real estate industry about innovations, or we provide consultancy services on proptech. We still keep on connecting people around the world. We work closely with other proptech associations publicly, like PropTech Institute in Hong Kong as founded by you. We are working very close together. That’s great. And we also try to set up some what we call “cocreation lab” in the region. But sadly because the COVID-19, progress is sluggish. We cannot make travels. So I think we still need to work on more, hopefully maybe next year, to set up some cocreation labs with the governments, with the industry in some countries in Asia, like Malaysia, Singapore, greater Bay Area etc. So, yeah, that’s Asia PropTech and myself. We also have our own proptech solution, because I am a chartered surveyor. So my interest is more on real estate analysis the valuation side. So we developing what we call AVM, the automated valuation model, try to assist the real estate investors and financers about the true valuation of real estate.
Darren Wong:That’s pretty good. It’s interesting, because you touched so many different points of the real estate spectrum, like from valuation, from the investment side, consultancy, and obviously now proptech is something that I want to talk to you about. And then, it’s always excited about property tech, because I think that is something has a really, really big potential for the industry. And then you have been in a forefront just kickstarted everything. So I want to say thanks for this. So pretty quickly for the audience, I want take a step back to tell the audience about property tech, would you mind give a very brief description of what it is and what it isn’t?
Leo Lo: Sure. Proptech, I think the term becomes popular only within these 10 years, even less than seven years. I think, originally, the US they call it real estate tech, the Europe and the UK to use property as real estate, so they call proptech/property tech. To me, I think somehow proptech is just a buzzword. So just like fin tech, just like health tech, inshore tech, I think any technologies, any innovations that can be applied in real estate and construction industry can be regarded as proptech. So some people would suggest that proptech is something overlapping with smart cities, for example, or overlapping with a fintech, for example. I think the answer is yes. Somehow is yes, because there are no particular technologies, you can say, oh, it’s only proptech, it’s not being fintech. So It depends on which technologies you’re using, and somehow it’s not only about the hard technologies, it’s also about innovation. For example, business model innovation. Say, we got a coworking or coliving are also the verticals under the banner of proptech. Coworking doesn’t use any rocket-science technology, but somehow they have a very innovative business model. They actually changed or disrupt a bit about the relationship between landlords and tenants. And especially this year, we encountered a pandemic situation, many people working from home. So, co-working is actually an idea, try to shuffle the relationship, the interest between landlords and tenants. So, it is also regarded as proptech. Or give you a more examples like we talk about proptech from proptech 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. So 1.0 is more related to those using the internet economy in the real estate industry, like many people start their proptech business, first of all, they focus on the multiple MLS platforms. So in Hong Kong, for example, 28house.com, even for Centaline, Midland, they develop their own platforms. I think these are, of course, a proptech. So they try to minimise the cost of information, or some of them even they want to get rid of agents. So this is proptech. And 2.0 is something like they use drones, they use VR, they use AR to assist the real estate or the construction process. Say, even BIM, Building Information modelling. I can say that BIM is even invented earlier than the term of proptech. So this is fantastic to assist the constructor, the project, the real estate manager. And 3.0 is something like they use more data analytics, AI or blockchain, try to facilitate the real estate transactions. So it is the buzzword. And there’s no concrete definition of proptech. So any technologies, any business model innovations that can facilitate real estate and construction industry can be regarded as proptech.
Darren Wong: I see. I think it’s really interesting, because when you talk about it, you can see, like a history of how proptech have evolved. So I’m just kind of curious too, because we both know that proptech adoption or at least the awareness of proptech was slower before and this year is somehow has accelerated really fast. What do you think is the reason behind that?
Leo Lo: Hong Kong as an example, I think, especially in the first one to two years, when I established Asia Proptech, when I talk to the developers, the local developers, I think, the FAQ, the frequently asked questions, on proptechs, they would like to know, okay, if I use proptech, how much I can save the cost, and how much the profit can be boosted? So this is very direct, I think that they’re asking something correct. Because these two factors are the main elements in real estate development, for example. So the concern much about what actually proptech can help, but in some years before or for the previous 10 years, Hong Kong, for example, the real estate market is performing quite good. To be honest, it’s not that difficult for those established real estate developers to earn money, even without using tech, even without using innovations. So somehow proptech is a was just like, a tool for them to window dressing instead of, you know, they really want to use proptech to solve the problems. But not until this year, I think for the whole world, we encountered the pandemic situation, as mentioned, for the office, landlords, they are facing higher and higher vacancy rates, even in central, even in the CBD in many major cities in the world. For the retail malls for example, street shops, the high street shops, the vacancy rates are getting higher. So somehow they turn their head to proptech, again, they really want to see how proptech can help. And this time, they are serious, because proptech can really differentiate different levels. Say in China, for example, in the mainland China, I think, some years ago, we even discussed or talk about if Country Garden, for example, will collapse in one day, even evergrande, in recent two to three weeks there are bad news about evergrande. I want to say is in China or in other countries, the real estate market is, maybe probably, comparatively competitive. So the developers, even the big developers, are keen on make themselves more innovative. Say Country Garden, I mentioned, they started to use construction tech, they started to put money into R&D of robotics in construction. I know many real estate developers in the mainland China, they have in-house incubators. They put a lot of effort to encourage their employees to suggest some innovative solutions to their industry. I think they’re really putting some true effort in pushing the innovation. that’s different. So to answer your question, I think in the past, maybe the real estate companies were in the comfort zone, but now they need to look into what innovation or proptech can really help.
Darren Wong: I see. So what is the current state of the proptech industry in the world at the moment and which segments have become more popular?
Leo Lo: As I mentioned, in proptech sector, we already used 3.0 to describe the current situation. And I don’t think we made progress to 4.0 proptech We haven’t reached that stage yet. But now I think, comparatively speaking, I think construction related tech would be more favourable. Because somehow, some people may suggest that okay, well, real estate tech is a platform is just try to lower the communication cost. Somehow real estate tech is not that on the ground, but construction related tech is more on the ground. That means, say, if you use 3d printing for constructing a house, if you use some innovative building materials like engineering bamboo, for example, I know some companies that are doing that, they are very concrete, I mean, they are on the ground that can save the cost, save the time, even BIM as I mentioned, these solutions are more favourable. And you can see even SoftBank, they invest in a company called Katerra. I think, if I’m correct, they’re based in Silicon Valley, they are more on the contech, a construction tech sector. After the investment made by SoftBank, they became a unicorn. So that is a fair point, an example. I think, even for the Hong Kong billionaires, for example, as I know, say, the ventures from Mr. Li Ka-shing. They also invest in quite some building management or energy management related companies in June. So to answer your question, I think construction tech, or building tech, or energy management related tech, are competitively attractive or more favourable back to real estate, I think data analytics would be something under the spotlight as well. Somehow we probably overestimate blockchain in some years ago. But I always suggest that of course, we cannot underestimate the blockchain applications in real estate industry in the coming 5 to 10 years. But somehow, it still takes time, say because blockchain, we still need to work with the governments, we need work with the regulators. So we need to be patient to wait for blockchain to change the industry. So to me, real estate, data analytics, AI assistant or powered tech that can help to facilitate real estate transaction that would be great.
Darren Wong: I see. So a lot of people, obviously, we all acknowledge. We’re part of the industry, we felt that proptech that has been increasing faster. But people still think that the proptech Hong Kong scene is a bit slower. What’s the reasoning behind it? And what are the challenge for that reason, in your opinion?
Leo Lo: I think I mentioned about a bit about this. Because of the real estate developers, most of them actually are under the comfort zone. So they are not keen on changing themselves to compare with other countries. That is one of the reasons. I think secondly, it’s about the government support. Because Hong Kong government, they try to assist, on how FinTech or smart cities a lot. They create some task force, or they at least they name FinTech or smart cities as the major your stream that they need to put effort or resources in. But proptech seems to me it’s still, not many people talk about. I know Cyberport may we discuss the idea recently, we face it, the, the streams, they need to focus on maybe proptech would be under the spotlight. So I think that’s important because somehow in Asia, with the government support, no matter is money or network or market, that will be helpful. So I look forward to one day Hong Kong government would name proptech as one of the very cool things to put much resources in. I think, somehow, the number of proptech companies is not that big. I mean, the number is not that big in Hong Kong. It’s also one of the reasons that makes Hong Kong a bit slow, because first of all Hong Kong, I mean, the startup ecosystem is not that big compared with Singapore, Malaysia, Korea. I always say that even for the tech people in Hong Kong, if they want to make a startup, they want to start a tech or business model innovation company, they would rather choose maybe other industries, not real estate, not construction, they start their company in FinTech, in health tech, in education tech. Somehow, because real estate in Hong Kong is such a big market with big companies already, so for those proptech people, they may be reluctant to have their company started in real estate and construction. Because the investors will ask them, say, if Okay, Mr. Li Ka-shing do something similar. How your company can survive, say if Mr. Shih Wing-Ching do something similar, how can your company survive? So it’s quite discouraging, somehow. And for the real estate, or construction industry, people in Hong Kong, because I think if you are working in this industry before I’m working in this industry, somehow I think we also in the comfort zone, and most of them are, actually, employees, and they may not be that entrepreneurial. At that sense, so you cannot find many people coming from real estate and construction industry jumping out to start their company. So that’s also one of the reasons. So that makes proptech not active at this moment. But I still believe that the situation would get better in the coming years.
Darren Wong: Let’s hope so. And if you can deliver a message to all the real estate industry leaders orproptech leaders, what would that be?
Leo Lo: I think I would suggest, I would like to say embrace is the key, say, embracing the innovations and embracing any new ideas, like what I’m developing now on AVM, as I mentioned, automated valuation model, somehow it’s challenging the traditional surveyors jobs. And also, we also need to work with the regulators, work with the professional institute. I think the institutes, the regulators are the players in the industry should at least adopt embracing mentality. Otherwise, I think the society cannot be improved, and that’s something I want to suggest.
Darren Wong: That’s pretty good. It is a really good message. Yeah, I get it. But it’s something that it’s coming. But you’ve got to keep going and keep trying the best to build the best product out there.
Leo Lo: The trend, like I mentioned about blockchain, although we a bit overestimate the impact in this one to two years, but it will definitely change or improve the industry in the coming five to 10 years. So we need to embrace any innovation.
Darren Wong: I see. So one last thing, because obviously, we can go hours and hours on it. And then I think in the future, if I ever asked you to come to the show, it’ll be really cool that we can talk about very specific segments of what’s going on. Because proptech is a very broad. And it’ll be just hardware to software. Yeah, there’s a lot of things there. But we can go drill down more and more in details. So in the Interim, if the audience want to learn more about property tech, or want to ask for your service, how would they contact you? How you suggest them to contact you and talk to you further?
Leo Lo: All right. So you’re welcome to visit my web page, www.asiaprop.tech. And you can find the contact details of myself. And, of course, you can search my name, Leo Lo, on LinkedIn, you will definitely find myself. Feel free to text me and leave me a message. I’ll get back to you.
Darren Wong: Yeah, I’ve had everything in the show notes. And I want to say thanks for your time to being here. And I really think that we’re just in the beginning of the whole industry, and I can’t wait for five years from now would be like, wow, just so many things happening. And then we are obviously part of the industry too, we start the whole thing.Yeah, for sure. Let’s see how it goes. And thanks for your time. I really appreciate your time again and then next time come again.
Leo Lo: Thank you so much.
Darren Wong: Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye
Darren Wong: 那麼，Leo，歡迎來到本集節目。
Leo Lo ：你好，Darren。
Darren Wong: 其實這很有趣，對吧？因為我認識你四、五年了，而我一直說我是通過你瞭解房地產科技的，你啟發了我很多。所以很明顯，就像我要說的，首先感謝你通過這個媒介激勵我。然後我想讓觀眾更多地瞭解你的工作，當然還有Asia Proptech。那麼你介意告訴觀眾一些關於你自己，你的工作，以及你目前在做什麼？
Leo Lo：好的。所以，首先，非常感謝您邀請我作為您的節目嘉賓。然後謝謝你設立這個節目，因為我認為讓房地產和投資者更進一步瞭解房地產業創新十分有意義。首先，我自己，我的名字叫Leo Lo。事實上，我的背景，我是一名特許地產量測師。假設我在一個非常傳統的房地產投資行業工作，與金融、土地相關產業。所以我現在在做兩件事，一件是從傳統的角度來看，我在一家房地產諮詢公司經營自己的業務，而且，通過投資，我們我們在其他國家的房地產開發也發展精品房地產。同時，我們也在好幾年前開始了房地產科技發展，我建立了Asia PropTech，可能是亞太地區第一個專業房地產科技的平台。我是在2016年開始的。當時，很少有人談論房地產科技，所以當時我感覺非常興奮。但當我談論房地產科技的時候也很孤獨，後來，我想我是從一些活動裡認識你的我不太清楚了。我很感激你對房地產的創新如此熱情。以及現在，經過幾年之後，特別是開始的一到兩年，我們花了很多精力來連接歐洲和北美對房地產科技感興趣的人。不知怎麼的，相對之下，亞洲落後了可能是兩三年。因此，在2016年，2017年，Asia PropTech與歐洲同行的有很多聯系。他們有很多房地產科技協會，比如英國房地產科技，德國房地產科技公司，或者環球房地產科技，你說得出的都有。以及我自己也總是被邀請向大家介紹亞洲房地產科技的環境，分享亞太地區房地產科技的現狀和發展。在這一到兩年的時間裏，我認為整個亞太地區的房地產科技領域都變得非常活躍，尤其是這裡的開發商，這裡的房地產投資者，他們都很熱衷、期待能為他們的項目帶來一些創新，如何為他們的項目新增價值，等等，所以這就是Asia PropTech。我們現在為房地產行業提供的幾項創新，或者我們提供房地產科技方面的諮詢服務。我們仍然在不斷地聯系世界各地的人。我們與其他房地產技術協會有密切的公開合作，例如由您創辦的香港房地產科技協會。我們在工作上有密切的來往，這是一件很好的事。我們還試圖建立一些我們稱之為“合作實驗室”在這地區。但不幸的是，由於COVID-19，這個項目進展緩慢。我們不能來往各個地區。所以我認為我們還需要做更多的工作，希望明年，建立一些合作實驗室，在亞洲的一些國家，如馬來西亞、新加坡、大灣區等，與政府和行業合作。所以，是的，這就是Asia PropTech和我自己。我們也有自己的科技解決方案，因為我是特許量測師。所以我的興趣更多的是房地產分析和估價方面。所以我們開發了我們稱之為AVM的自動估價模型，試圖協助房地產投資者和財務人員瞭解房地產的真實價值。
Darren Wong: 這十分好。這很有趣，因為你觸及了房地產領域的許多不同點，比如從估值、投資、諮詢等方面，顯然現在我想和你談談房地產科技。然後，房地產科技總是令人十分興奮，因為我認為這對這個行業有著非常巨大的潜力。然後你一直站在最前線，推動一切開始發展。所以我想對你說謝謝。所以為了觀眾們，我想很快地先基本告訴觀眾關於房地產科技，你能簡單描述一下它是什麼，以及它並不是什麼嗎？
Leo Lo ：當然。一個房地產科技，我認為這一詞彙只在這10年內開始流行，甚至不到7年。我想，最初，美國稱之為房地產科技，歐洲和英國將資產稱為房地產，因此他們稱之為“資產科技”，我只是覺得科技是一種科技。就像金融科技，健康科技，近海科技，我認為任何科技，任何可以應用於房地產和建築的創新工業都可以看作是房地產科技，所以有人會說房地產科技是與例如智慧都市，或金融科技等產業重疊。我想答案是肯定的。不知何故是的，因為沒有特殊的科技，你可以說，哦，這只是房地產科技，不是用於金融科技公司。所以這取決於你使用的是哪種科技，而且不知何故，這不僅是關於硬科技，而且也關於創新。比如商業模式創新。比如說，我們有一個共事或合作也是以房地產科技為主的垂直行業。合作工作不使用任任何複雜的技術，但不知何故他們的商業模式非常創新。他們實際上改變了或者擾亂了房東和房客之間的關係。尤其是今年，我們遇到了病毒全球大流行的情况，很多人在家工作。所以，合作工作實際上是一種想法，嘗試重新建立關係，和房東和房客之間的利益。所以，它也被認為是房地產科技。或者給你一個更多的例子，比如我們談起房地產科技會說從房地產科技1.0，2.0，到3.0。所以1.0與房地產行業使用互聯網經濟的人更為相關，比如許多人開始了他們的房地產科技業務，首先，他們專注於多個MLS平臺。所以在香港，為了示例，28house.com網站即使是在Midland的Centaline，他們也開發自己的平臺。我當然，認為這些是一種房地產科技，所以他們儘量降低資訊成本，或其中一些成本他們甚至不使用中介。所以這是房地產科技2.0就像他們使用無人機，他們使用虛擬實境，他們使用AR來協助房地產或施工過程。即使是BIM，建築資訊建模。我可以說BIM這個詞甚至比房地產科技還更早出現。所以這對於幫助施工方、項目和房地產經理來說是非常棒的。和3.0就像他們使用更多的資料分析、人工智慧或區塊鏈，努力促進房地產交易。所以這就是我們流行使用的詞。而且其實房地產科技沒有具體的定義。因此，任何能夠促進房地產和建築業的科技、商業模式創新都可以被視為房地產科技。
Darren Wong: 我明白了。我認為這真的很有趣，因為當你談論它的時候，你可以看到，像房地產科技如何演變的歷史。所以我只是也有點好奇，因為我們都知道，房地產科技的採用或者至少對房地產科技的認識以前比較慢，而今年不知何故速度非常快。你認為這背後的原因是什麼？
Leo Lo：以香港為例，我認為，尤其是在我剛成立Asia Proptech的一到兩年裏，當我與開發商、本地發展商交談時，我想，常見問題解答，關於房地產科技的最常見問題，他們想知道，好吧，如果我使用房地產科技，我可以節省多少錢成本，利潤能提高多少？所以這很直接，我認為他們在問正確的問題。因為這兩個因素是房地產開發的主要因素。所以這是對於房地產科技的實際幫助的關注，但在過去的幾年裏或之前，以香港為例，10年來，房地產市場表現相當不錯。說實話，對於那些老牌房地產開發商來說，即使不使用科技，甚至不使用創新，賺錢也不會有太大的困難。所以房地產科技就像是他們用來裝飾的工具，而不是，你知道的，他們真想用房地產科技來解决問題。但直到今年，我想對於全世界來說，我們遇到了病毒全球大流行的問題，就如剛才所說的，對於辦公室、房東來說，他們面臨著越來越高的空缺,在世界上許多主要城市，即使是在市中心，甚至在中央商務區。比如零售商場，街頭商店，商業街商店，空置率越來越高。所以他們又轉過頭來支持科技，他們真的很想看看房地產科技能幫上什麼忙。這一次，他們是認真的，因為房地產科技可以真正區分不同的層次。比如說在中國，在中國大陸，我想，幾年前，我們甚至討論或談論碧桂園是否會在一天內倒閉，甚至恒大，，最近兩三星期恒大也有壞消息。我想說的是在中國還是在其他國家，房地產市場是，也許，相對來說競爭激烈。所以開發商，甚至是大開發商，都熱衷於讓自己更加創新。比如碧桂園，我提到過，他們開始使用建築技術，開始投入資金參與建築機器人的研發。我認識很多中國大陸的房地產開發商，他們都有內部的培養。他們花了很多精力鼓勵員工為他們的工業提供創新建議。我認為他們真的在推動創新方面付出了一些真正的努力。所以那就不同了。所以回答你的問題，我想在過去，也許房地產公司處於舒適圈，但現在他們需要研究創新或支持科技能，才能真正起到什麼作用。
Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼房地產科技的現狀如何呢現時世界上的產業，哪些細分市場更受歡迎？
Leo Lo: 正如我提到的，在房地產科技領域，我們已經使用3.0來描述當前的情况。我不認為我們在科技進展方面到達了4.0。我們還沒有達到那個階段。但現在我認為，相對而言，我認為與施工相關的科技將更為有利。因為不知何故，有些人可能會建議，好吧，房地產科技是一個平臺，所以儘量降低通信成本吧。不知何故，房地產科技並不是那麼實際，但與建築相關的科技更多的是在實際施工上。也就是說，如果你用3D列印來建造房子使用一些創新的建築材料，例如工程竹，我知道一些公司正在這樣做，他們是非常有效具體的，我的意思是，他們能够節省成本、節省時間，即使是我提到的BIM，這些解決方案更為有利。你甚至可以看到Softbank，他們投資一家叫做Katerra的公司。我想，如果我是對的，他們的總部在矽谷他們更著重關於Contech，一個建築技術部門。在Softbank投資之後，他們變成了獨一無二的公司。所以這是公平的一個例子。我想，即使對香港的億萬富翁來說，我知道，比如說李嘉誠先生的投資。6月份，他們還投資了相當多的建築管理或能源管理相關公司。所以為了回答您的問題，我認為建築技術或建築技術或能源管理相關科技是對於房地產行業來說，更具有競爭力的吸引力或更有利的回報，我認為資料分析可能也會受到一些關注。也許在以往的某些年裏我們高估了區塊鏈但我始終認為，當然，我們不能低估區塊鏈在未來5-10年在房地產行業的應用。但不知何故，這仍然需要時間，比如說，因為區塊鏈，我們仍然需要與政府合作，我們需要與監管機构合作。所以我們需要耐心等待區塊鏈改變行業。所以對我來說，房地產，資料分析，人工智慧助理或動力科技可以幫助促進房地產交易的話就太好了。
Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以很多人，顯然，我們都承認。我們是這個行業的一部分，我們覺得這個行業增長得很快。但人們仍然認為房地產科技香港的發展有點慢。背後的原因是什麼？在你看來，這個原因的挑戰是什麼？
Darren Wong: 希望如此。如果你能向所有房地產行業領袖或房地產科技領袖傳達資訊，那會是什麼？
Darren Wong: 很好。這是一個非常好的訊息。是的，我明白了。機會即將到來。但你必須繼續努力，盡最大努力打造出最好的產品。
Darren Wong: 我明白了。最後一件事，因為很明顯，我們可以花上好幾個小時。然後我想在將來，如果我再邀請你來到這個節目，我們可以談談現今具體發生的事情。因為房地產科技是一個非常廣泛的行業。然後從硬體到軟件。是的，那裡有很多東西。但我們可以深入瞭解更多細節。所以在這段期間，如果觀眾想瞭解更多關於房地產科技，或者想請求您的服務，他們會如何聯系您？你如何建議他們聯系你並與你進一步交談？
Leo Lo：好的。歡迎你訪問我的網頁，www.asiaprop.tech。你可以找到我的聯繫方式。而且，當然，你可以在LinkedIn上蒐索我的名字，Leo Lo，你一定會找到我的。隨時給我發短信，給我留言。我會給你回電的。
Darren Wong: 是的，我已經把所有的東西都記在節目簡介上了。我想感謝你能抽出時間來這裡。我真的認為我們還處於整個行業的起步階段，我等不及從現在開始的五年裏，會有很多改變和發展。然後我們顯然也是這個行業的一部分，我們開始了整個過程。是的，當然。讓我們看看進展如何。謝謝你的時間。我真的很感謝你的再次光臨。
Leo Lo ：非常感謝您。
Darren Wong: 謝謝。祝你有好的一天。再見