Market Updates 未分類

Finishing the Year 2020 Strong

Finishing the Year 2020 Strong

Another year is drawing to a close, so we are here again with our year-end special episode. This year has been a dramatic year for many of us. Despite that, our team at Denzity has made some fantastic achievements. Before our send-off into 2021, we’d like to quickly recap what we have achieved in 2020 and what you should expect from us after the holidays. Also, stay tuned to the end for a special announcement! 

▶Key Discussion:

  • Recap on Denzity Insights
  • Special Announcement

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript [English & Chinese]

Hey everyone! This is Darren from Denzity.


Another year is drawing to a close, so we are here again with our year-end special episode. This year has been a dramatic year for many of us. Despite that, our team at Denzity has made some fantastic achievements. Before our send off into 2021, we’d like to quickly recap what we have achieved in 2020 and what you should expect from us after the holidays. Also, stay tuned to the end for a special announcement! 


First up: Denzity Insights –  we interviewed dozens of experts worldwide for their tips and insights so that you can have a better idea of how the real estate industry works. We realize a great deal of you  prefer using online videos to learn about real estate-related topics, and it has been a great success! As of now, we have featured more than 30 experts worldwide (hailing from Hong Kong, Canada, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, the UK, Cambodia, and more). Our videos have also garnered over 7,000 views and accumulated more than 350 hours of watch time in total. That’s awesome! Thanks to you all, we are considering adding a second season to explore even more areas of real estate. If you are a real estate expert, and want to be featured on our channel, please contact us! We are expanding to more topics – looking at property categories like industrial and hospitality, digging deep into market trends, and discovering opportunities such as PropTech and investment strategies.

首先:Denzity Insights——我們採訪了全球很多的專家,讓他們提供了建議和見解,以便您對房地產行業的運作有一個更好的瞭解。我們意識到很多人更喜歡使用視頻來了解房地產相關的話題,而我們已經成功!到目前為止,我們已經在全球邀請了30多位專家(來自香港、加拿大、馬來西亞、新加坡、日本、英國、柬埔寨等地的專家)。我們的視頻也獲得了超過7000次的流覽量,累計觀看時間超過350小時。太棒了!感謝大家,我們正在考慮新增第二季,探索更多房地產相關的領域。如果您是一位房地產專家,並想出現我們的頻道,請聯系我們!我們會擴展到更多的主題——關注工業和飯店等房地產類別,深入挖掘市場趨勢,發現機遇,如PropTech和投資策略。

We have to thank YOU, the audience! Thanks for the support and for giving us tremendous feedback. Please continue to suggest anything you have in mind, such as:  What kind of topics would you like us to explore? Which experts would you like us to interview? Let us know in the comment section.


Now, we have a special announcement for you.


For the past few months, we thought deeply about why many traditional real estate agencies are staying quiet about the digital world. Why many of them struggle to transition to digital marketing and miss opportunities many others have found. What is for sure is attracting online prospects is not an easy task and cannot be done on one’s own. That’s when we realized that WE could be the bridge. We call it Denzity Portal: the Shopify for real estate agencies. And unlike other listing platforms – we know video is a powerful medium to attract prospects and direct them to the project listings. 

在過去的幾個月裏,我們深入思考了為什麼許多傳統的房地產仲介對數碼世界保持沉默。為什麼許多傳統房地產仲介未能向數位行銷轉型,錯過了許多機會。可以肯定的是,吸引線上潛在客戶並不是一件容易的事,而且不可能只靠自己完成。就在那時,我們意識到我們可以成為這座橋樑。我們稱之為Denzity Portal:房地產仲介的Shopify。與其他上市平台不同的是,我們知道視頻是吸引潛在客戶並引導他們進入項目清單的强大媒介。

Real estate agencies need a listing portal that can host a wide range of video types, such as virtual viewing and live streaming. Usually, it is quite expensive to build an online listing platform with an extension permitting creative freedom. With Denzity Portal, real estate agencies can now do all that for less than half of the standing cost with our tech solution. With this, finding online prospects and closing sales faster literally becomes a few clicks away.

房地產經紀公司需要一個能够承載多種視頻類型的上市網站,如虛擬觀看和直播。通常情况下,建立一個具允許創造性自由擴展的線上上市網站是相當昂貴的。有了Denzity Portal,房地產仲介現在可以用我們的科技,以不到持續成本的一半來完成所有這些。有了這一點,你就可以更快地找到網上潛在客戶並完成銷售。

Additionally, traditional real estate agencies want to find digital talents that can promote listings and create campaigns. With Denzity portal, real estate agencies can access on-demand digital experts – from marketing to video creation – extending the impact of their online presence. With our solution, real estate agencies can capture online prospects faster and easier than ever before while focusing on what matters most: making sales. We are already building listing platforms with a handful of clients. If you are a real estate agency and want to learn more, please reach out! And, if you are a digital marketing agency, you can reach out to us, too!

此外,傳統的房地產經紀公司希望找到能促進上市和創建活動的數位人才。通過Denzity Portal,房地產經紀公司可以應要求接觸網上專家-從行銷到視頻創作-擴大其線上存在的影響。有了Denzity Portal,房地產經紀公司可以更快、更容易地捕捉網上潛在客戶,同時專注於最重要的事情:銷售。我們已經在與少數客戶建立上市平台。如果你是一位房地產仲介,想瞭解更多,請聯系我們!而且,如果你是一個數位行銷機构,你也可以聯繫我們!

Now, what to expect from us in 2021? We at Denzity will continue to help investors find more high quality and insightful real estate information and provide digital and creative solutions to help real estate companies succeed in the online world. 


To the Denzity team, advisors, partners, shareholders, friends, families, community, and supporters, I wanted to thank all of your continued support, guidance, support, and believe in our mission!  We couldn’t accomplish many things this year without you.


We are super excited for 2021, and I am sure you are, too! Let’s finish the year strong! Thanks for watching, and until next year, above and beyond!


Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: Immigration and Real Estate (What To Know) with Eric Lowe

Immigration and Real Estate (What To Know) with Eric Lowe

After a long career, retirees often hope to find new comfort in properties outside their country. With numerous factors that make-up the perfect retirement, it’s good to know how to get things in-order when deciding to retire abroad. We had Eric Lowe over to discuss the unique processes and expectations associated with retirement investment, and how it makes it markedly different from other forms of real estate investment. 

▶Key Discussion:

·  What a Retirement Immigration Advisor Does

·  Relocation: Step by Step and Different Cases

·  Why it is Hard to Find a Relocation-and-Immigration Consultant

▶ Connect with Eric:


▶ Source & Supporting:

Retirement Immigration: Retirement immigration basically means to have a second home after retirement in a place with comfortable and affordable living. Most people from first world countries tend to choose tropical Asian countries or the Caribbean as their retirement destination.

Globalization: Globalization is the boost in exchanges of information,

technology, goods, services, cultures and even human beings, across the world.

It simplfied the interactions between nations.

Asset Management: Asset management is the overall process of governing

an asset. It includes developing, maintaining as well as selling the asset.

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript [English & Chinese]

Darren Wong: Hey, Eric, thanks for coming to the show. 

Eric Lowe:  Hey. 

Darren Wong: Yeah, so this is interesting because we met last time through a friend called Jeff. And then Jeff was like, Oh, I know someone who is a retirement immigration consultant, and then I think a lot of audiences may be interested in learning what that means. And how does that relate to real estate? So before that, would you mind telling the audience about yourself? And then what kind of work you’re working on?

Eric Lowe: Yeah, actually, I’m in retirement immigration, which, of course, is in the US, they talk about it as basically having a second home, basically retired to a place where it’s cheaper, and the weather’s nicer, and everything. So the whole thing about retirement immigration is all  about retiring, basically, how you can might have cheaper, for living and everything. So actually, I was the one who tried to find the places that suited to their needs. Because some people would like places, maybe in Asia, some people like in the Caribbean, or something like that, as you know that in America, basically, the five places of people who want to have second homes or immigration is, for example, maybe Ecuador, Panama, and Mexico and maybe Thailand are the hot places that people want to retire with a second home. So as you say, even if you live there, you don’t maybe need real estate. But basically, for people who wants to have, I want to have a roof of my top, I want to have that type of security, that would be something that we also do as well. And my background is basically finance. So basically, I fully understand that they financially they want to be not too expensive, they have enough to live on, or maybe also think about maybe retirement homes, or maybe more of in terms of medical or something like that. So these concerns will be also under consideration when they do consultation with me.

Darren Wong: I see. So our channel, Density Insight, is more about the real estate, and obviously, immigration, that kind of appetite you have, if you’re investing or renting; it really relates together. So, a lot of audiences might not understand, actually myself as well, how many different types of immigration advisor are there? And then what does a retirement immigration advisor do? And then most importantly, what’s the difference compared to them? Is there more like a marketing difference? Or there is actually the way you look at how to service your clients? Is that where it differs?

Eric Lowe: I think, in other kinds of situations, I think people would just have an idea, “oh, I want to retire to places like Hawaii, I want to retire to places like Thailand”, they already have a place to have in mind and basically just facilitate the people, maybe buying property, maybe just establish themselves there or maybe opening account or maybe having a company there to run something. So these are other people already have ideas of, whereas my job is basically to tell them, for example, I have no idea where I want to go. A budget is a certain example, so maybe like under $2 million, if it is enough for me to go on with something, so I will be the person to maybe sit down with them and talk over what they have concerns about, because I have a financial background. So I know exactly the financial part, can you buy apartment there, or you rent, which is cheaper, which is more expensive. So these are the things that we can go through with them, you know, so basically, it’s a bit different than people just have an idea, like exactly why they go to a certain place, because there’s some things, so we are much open to have different places for them to consider. And of course, you go because of globalization, the world is your oyster. So, these are the things that would be more of their own desires, rather than just say to some give them a kind of a kind of Crash Course, “Oh, you don’t have to go somewhere”, and not to give them a chance to really think about what suits them the most.

Darren Wong:  I see, so how we describe the relationship between retirement immigration, and real estate?

Eric Lowe: Retirement immigration is more of a sense of living. Because the retirement is talking about, like different types of funds or if you have an annuity, or maybe you’re talking about different things. Real estate is only one part of the equation. It could be maybe I did buy some places, maybe you have a rental income, or maybe just a place I live or something like that. So it’s only one part of maybe a five step situation in the retirement immigration.

Darren Wong: I see. So obviously, the most important  thing that I’m going to ask is about the behavior. Because you’re in finance backgrounds, I’m sure when you are doing your work, you can think about what different  investors have different appetites. So in this case, how do retirees or let’s say like elderly that tend to be retirees a different compare to other demographics when it comes to real estate investing and renting? And then, I’m sure thinking about in my head, elderly, for example, with desire buildings that would suit their needs, and then the neighborhoods really matter to them if they are self-use. So would you mind paint a better picture or detailed picture for the audience?

Eric Lowe:  I think the similarities between, for example, investing in immigration, or we’re talking about real estate, so I think both of the things that we are talking about maybe is because of rental income, or how much you can make out of it, the real estate, so that’s very similar. But if you are thinking about living there in that place, of course, you’re just talking about “Is there maybe a hospital nearby? Is there any other things, do I have to go far away to take a bus or something?” those would be other things that they concerned about. So I think that in terms of returns, it’s very similar, but in terms of living there in the community, and everything, those would be very different if they’re thinking about using the property for their own.

Darren Wong:  I see. So let’s say for example in my head,  is it different, how do you how to explain it? Like, how would they think about differently? Because obviously, for example, if I’m a younger man, I’ll think about long term like, okay, maybe I just want to start a family, maybe I will think about relocation there 5 to 10 years from now. And obviously, retirees are very different, maybe they make a lot of money, during retirement, they want to get away with their kids who wasn’t working, and they’re older. When you suggest them about different type of real estates, or such as “hey, where they should live,” do you factor that in, and does it really matter that much, because it sounds like even in the return perspective, it’s not that much difference?

Eric Lowe: Well, depends. For example, if you’re a younger person, you don’t have enough money, basically, if you buy a property, most likely you have a mortgage or something like that, even in a foreign country. So maybe that part of your income will go into factoring in that foreign  investment in property. Whereas for people who have retired, maybe they have like expendable property or money, so they can just buy it at a glance, so they don’t need to think about “Oh, I just have a mortgage for us to think about, maybe 3 or 4 years until it’s going to be mine”. It could be yourself, having that property maybe tomorrow or something like that. And also, when retired people think about, basically, they don’t have to think about their kids, as you put it, maybe the kids they have their own life and everything. So thinking about maybe my own life, for example, maybe go to Hawaii or something having gone for finanical freedom for retirees, when they consider this thing, rather than to say that you are 30-year-old, you have to think of your kids, and you have the thing about your own retirement, it’s actually in the back of your mind, because you have to get your kids to college first. So that’s a very different mentality.

Darren Wong: So what’s the trends in terms of retirement immigration and relocation, because we’re from Hong Kong, I’m sure you’re more familiar with the area? And then what are things that they should be aware of, if they are the audiences that listen to this whole video at the moment?

Eric Lowe: I think the point is that if you’re thinking about the place, that’s fine. But if you’re buying a property from abroad, basically make sure that the developers are reputable, because there are a lot of sob stories of people all investing in developing countries, maybe Vietnam, maybe Laos or something, they think, oh, is a great place to retire or a great place to have a place. But you don’t know the developers, they might disappear after investing. So buying property from abroad, basically, is the risk. So you have to know people developing it and everything. So I think that was the most important thing when you think about buying foreign property, I think that’s like 101 for even if you are a 30-year-old, or you are retired person. But of course, with a retired person, you don’t have enough money, basically, to have. For a younger person, if they lost it all, they can make it again, or something like that. So that part, you have to think carefully when you make a decision.

Darren Wong:  I see. So just now you mentioned Vietnam and Laos, right? Are those regions kind of popular right now? What kind of region is there right now, a lot of people are thinking about relocation towards it?

Eric Lowe: I think that’s for people actually living there, I think it would be places like Thailand, or Malaysia, Taiwan, Panama, or these other places, which of course is warmer, it’s cheaper and these are the things that people can think about living. For example, Taiwan, because it speaks Chinese and everything, of course the food is very similar, and the calligraphy is the same. And Thailand, basically people like Thai food or something. So if you think about living there, you have to make sure that you have to live a life, it will be comparable for you. It’s not like living in the Middle East or living in Africa, it’s a totally different thing, even though maybe cheaper, but people will consider that because of the huge cultural gap.

Darren Wong: I see. So actually, would you mind do this exercise with me because I want to know, let’s say for example, if one day, 20, 30 years down the line, if I ever need someone like you to help me out with it, how’s the journey like? Would you mind  walking me through the journey?

Eric Lowe: How’s the journey like?

Darren Wong: So let’s say, I come find you and say, “hey Eric, I heard about you. I’m interested in retiring somewhere else, and I really want to move somewhere else.” How would the covision be like?

Eric Lowe: I think that because as you know that I’m basically an asset management person. So the thing that group in particular, for example, what kind of place you like, how much budget you have? And basically, do you have any constraints about places that you  miss the person, or you? Because I think these are very important, whether or not you have enough money, whether or not you’d like a third place or have a preference, because if you like Thailand, or you don’t like places like maybe the Bahamas. I can push Bahamas till the cows come home, and it doesn’t make a difference, because you already have something, “Oh, I like Southeast Asia” or something like that. So I’ll be basically working with you, not trying to push something into you. I think that’s the difference between a consultant and someone who just sells these things. Because like, hey, I just have all these things in my palette, so I just sell  them to you, rather than to listen to what you want, and basically work with you to achieve your goal, which of course, I think is the most important.

Darren Wong: I see. So let’s say, for example, okay you have suggestions of where I should go, where should I live and, what sounds like a good idea, so what’s the next step for how you would help me? Because I want to see the whole scope of what kind of things that you will help me and, for example, if I go to a place that I am not familiar at all, what is something that you help me to understand it? Or how you help me settle into the location? Is that part of the scope as well for a consultant like yourself?

Eric Lowe: I think so. I sort of encourage people to go to that place to visit at least, because if you’re thinking about living there long term,  it doesn’t make any point to just, oh, I want to go there tomorrow, I’ve never been there before. I think that people made a very bad mistake in the 80s, everyone want to go to Canada, they like Canada, they like the stuff, but when they got there, oh my god, there’s so much snow, it’s so cold, I cannot find work, and everything comes out. So they  have to, sell their place, come back, and everything was a fiasco. So I think I would say to people, hey, maybe you can go there together and look at the place and see if you like  it. If you like it, we can think about buying a place and doing the paperwork and everything start doing from that side. Because if you don’t feel right, you can just do all the work, and then you don’t want to go eventually. So seeing is believing is very true.

Darren Wong: I see. So does that mean that you also help them suggest what kind of property they should invest? Or what area they should go to? Or, I wouldn’t say replacing the real estate agent role, but you kind of have the elements, kind of like a filter in a certain way, am I correct?

Eric Lowe: Yeah, exactly. For example, we have placed people on the ground, maybe in places like Thailand or something. So I can tell you there are actually people who immigrated from Hong Kong to Thailand. So they can tell you, oh, these are the things that I went through. And basically, I don’t want you to go through it and basically all this kind of food, places to buy stuff. So basically, you have to walk through it with the person to make sure that’s what they wanted. And then after they experienced that, and they were like, okay, let’s do it. If they did, oh my god, I just found out that I don’t like it. So basically, that’s the thing to stop because I think it’s important that for the people to really know the place. Because living there, especially if you are retiree, you don’t have a lot of choices, basically you sell your place, you come here and then found out that you made the wrong decision, I think that’s a disaster by itself. So I think as a consultant, you want to make sure that they see what they want, and basically not to have any regrets when it goes through it. Basically, I think, a tour, for example, to go there to see the property and also to see the lifestyle there is important because you need to experience it. It’s not  like that’s not responsible, that’s into the whole work. This will be too disingenuous for me, at least.

Darren Wong: I see. So as a consultant yourself, helping people to immigrate somewhere else, like relocation and so on, I guess that you also cover helping them to apply for visa or apply permanent status, and obviously, there’s some countries would require you to have a certain asset or invest in certain amount, am I correct? So what are those places are?  Because I want to give the audience a better idea, obviously, I did some homework before that. And I want to know that because that’s a key point. A lot of people say, hey, I want to invest in this location because I get a visa easier. So can you give me some examples of what countries and about how much they would need, and what kind of criteria of different locations that’s kind of popular at the moment?

Eric Lowe: So I’ll just tell you the two most popular locations from the Hong Kong point of view at this time. I think, either it’s Taiwan and Thailand. Taiwan is because, of course, we speak the same language and the same calligraphy, and the food is  similar. And basically, it’s like easy to immigrate there. And after that, basically, you just have to invest in the business and go through the paperwork and stuff. So basically, if you have $2 million, basically, you are sort of like, okay, we can sort of like do that, basically, that goes to the point.

Darren Wong: But 2 million, you mean US dollars or Hong Kong dollars we’re talking about?

Eric Lowe: Hong Kong dollars. 1.5 million plus another maybe half a million just to make sure you have a place to live and everything. So this is the money you need to put aside for that. So that’s the budget.

Darren Wong: So does that mean that you have to have the amount in your bank account or you have to invest in assets in Taiwan or the companies?

Eric Lowe: The 1.5 million, you need to invest for three years, so that budget is a no brainer. But of course, if you want to buy a place in Taiwan, that’s extra, that’s not needed. If you need to stay there for one year, you can rent or something, there are lots of different options. For example, this is for the Taiwan investment immigration. Like,  for example, another case will be Thailand, which of course they don’t have immigration to a certain extent, but they have the golden visa, basically, of course, just put HKD1 million into a bank account, and you can stay there for 10 years. So staying there for 10 years means that of course, you have to rent a place at least, but buying a place will be optional. So this is the kind of thing that we do because the budget is very similar, very clear to the person who is interested, whether or not they want to buy a luxury flat in Chiang Mai that’s their choice, or maybe just buy a little flat in Bangkok, just to make sure that you’re close to shopping or something. That’s their kind of situation as well.

Darren Wong:  I see. I think I have interviewed two Malaysian experts. And then they have mentioned something called MM2H, it’s like a scheme. Are you familiar with that?

Eric Lowe: Yeah, actually, it’s very similar to the Taiwan thing, but unfortunately, I just heard about two days ago, the Malaysian government to stop everything. So it’s very interesting. That’s why I don’t like Malaysia, because it’s a Muslim country, and also the money cannot go in and out, the ringgit is not very transfer up. Or I feel is a bit confined. So, I don’t want to do it.

Darren Wong: Oh that’s cool. Everyone’s different that way. And this show is about that, the show is about, you want to understand real estate investing, what’s for you, what’s not for you is totally up to this. And obviously, this show was meant to cover everything as much as possible to help people. So I want to look  into, because while talking to you before preparing for it, I’m very interested in the retirees and elderly mindset, not saying that all your clientele is going to be older people, it might be younger that retired. Hopefully, I’ll become that one day, entire soon. So let’s say for example, what are things that, if it is an elderly for example in the situation, what do they think a lot more when it comes to amenities? And what are kind of things that they worry about when moving? That’s maybe a younger generation, like myself, might not think about?

Eric Lowe: I think it’s all about: would they find friends? Or would they be happy? Or the living standard is going to be expensive? Or for example, for older people, they might need to have a maid or something to help them work or something, and of course, the transportation is something that needs to be confirmed. So basically, these are the worries they have moving to a new country because Hong Kong was  so easy to really move around. Then you go to Thailand, of course compared to Bangkok, Bangkok is actually very easy because with the sky  train or something, everything is very nice. But when you go to places like Chiang Mai, you might have to have a car or something. So these things are something that maybe for some people would be like, Oh, I need to get a car, or maybe get a driver or something like that. So really depends on these things, but of course, these are the things that they will worry the most or if they  have long term health problems, they will think, “is there a hospital nearby?” because they worry at places like in Bangkok, because the traffic is so damn bad, so that if you have an accident or something, maybe you would die on the way to the ambulance or something. That was a running joke about that. So basically, they want to live closer to a hospital or a clinic, so that they are able to use the facilities much easier. So that is another thing that is being asked a lot about.

Darren Wong:  I see. So even in my head right now is that even if, let’s say for example, and obviously I’m looking at real estate perspective, you think about each location, where’s the closest amenities in  the community aspect, is your mall nearby, is there a food court nearby? And it’s just hospital nearby? So it will tend to be in the middle of the city area. Am I correct?

Eric Lowe: Or close to? Yeah, if you have to travel and that basically maybe it’s just like car five minutes or something? Close you are or something like that?

Darren Wong: I see. So yeah, I think it’s just one question that it’s always been in my head. I don’t really come by a lot immigration advisor or consultants, what’s the reason behind it? And obviously, it’s a personal question. Because, for me, for example, it took me so long to find someone like you and your background, which is I’m very honest, it’s very rare for me, and then in the industry, I never know where to find them. Is there a way to easily access these kind of information or find someone like yourself for the kind of services?

Eric Lowe: I think that because I was in the finance field, and because I was in sales, it comes rather natural, because we do a lot of different types of stuff, maybe not only just stocks or bonds or something, but also other things, maybe our investment like  property. So actually, immigration is just another step on the story. Because a lot of people are actually very one-track minded. So you see a lot of things like ads about going to Taiwan, going into Malaysia, going to Portugal, it seems easy to put things in the boxes, whereas we are basically  more or less like a consultant to be able to go through it, like a kind of a private banker mentality, so that I can do what for you, rather than just say, Portugal is great. I just saw your Portugal, I’ll tell you all about Portugal, because I’m all about Portugal. I’m all about Taiwan or Thailand. And then basically that’s it. That’s the story. So of course, it’s much easier to do one story than five or six stories.

Darren Wong: I see. Yeah, it seems like that’s something that the audience should take notes because a lot of time is that there are some people and some, obviously, in the role, they have to sell really hard on that one product they have on their hands, whereby it’s a lot more important to take a step back for you to see different options and say, maybe this  location is not the only option. And then we’ll just come to something that I think the audience might want to know more: how we suggest to audiences learn more about the subjects? What are some sources besides reaching out to you that they can read more and learn further?

Eric Lowe: I think that there is so much information out there, any kind of subject you can find it. You can Google it, it’s everywhere.

Darren Wong: Yes. Okay, we have we Yeah, yeah, we just cut out that part. Don’t worry about that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So sorry, just now let because like,  yes, that’s my way of telling the biographer that, you know, he cut out that part. But I still keep going. Like, the question is that, you know, how you suggest the audience to learn more about the subject, and what are some sources and you know, they can read, and then further beside reach out to you. 

Eric Lowe: Yeah, what I just said was, there’s so much information out there which, of course, is  in the social media or newspapers, and that’s not a lack of information, maybe there’s too much information to go through. So basically, if you want to find something that you want, basically have to go through, sift through all the information, because everybody has part of the solution, but not the full solution. And then you have to go through that for me, to help the person basically, I can sort of find what you want, and try to find whatever aspect that they have currently and suit your needs. So that’s a different more of like make it for yourself in that situation, rather than to go through one size fits all, like go to a shoe shop, they don’t have a size, so basically, if you put a smaller size or put a pad on it or something like that. So it’s actually the very same thing, it’s very difficult to find exactly what you want.

Darren Wong: About the whole data, like the information all over the place, I think that’s what Denzity’s for, right? So yeah. I think there are a lot more questions. And  honestly if the audience have any comments and questions, I can always refer to you. And then just lastly, what kind of takeaway would you want the audience to have by the end of this video?

Eric Lowe: I hope that the audience after they see this video, they think that they have choices, I think the most important thing, people will just think that whatever the outside world gives you, you have to do Panama, you have to do Portugal or whatever the places, it’s just that they’re serving that. But the point is that if you want something, you can also do some research for it, and also to find someone like me that can find exactly what you want for you. I think that’s very important, because the power is in the course, with someone like me, basically it would be easier than just skips through all the established information, and to find something that really like. So basically, it’s a process.

Darren Wong: I see,  I think that’s a good way to end the show. And then if the audience want to reach out to you to learn more about you, what are some methods that you suggest them to find you?

Eric Lowe: Basically, actually I’m on LinkedIn, so that they can find me there, it’s under Eric Lowe. Basically, you can find it over there. Or I can leave my phone number or something like that if they want

.Darren Wong: Yeah, I can put everything in the show notes. And I just want to say thanks for your time. And I think even though retirement immigration in real estate, it’s obviously not a very hard tie correlation. But there are related together hands to hands, because in my head there are times that I had to relocate, not retire, but relocate, and then the question will be like, Oh, my God, where should I live there? Where should I go? what’s around me? Are there things that I’m familiar with? I think that’s kind of tied to my memory back in high school when I go to Vancouver, and then my first comment my dad said was, “Hey, how far is a Chinese food restaurant away from school?” And I’m just like, “all right, that’s a very important one”. And obviously, this is very small thing back then. But now think of is, that’s something that if you are moving far away, don’t just rely on Google Map, you should really rely on having someone like yourself, know what’s going on, at least or even go to the place first and  figure out if that’s the place for you. So and I just want to say, Eric, thanks for your time, and I really appreciate it and I hope that you’ll come back next time if you can.

Eric Lowe:  Okay, no problem. Having a good time. 

Darren Wong: Yeah, thank you and have a good one.

Eric Lowe: You too. Have a good day.

Darren Wong: You too. Bye.

Darren Wong: 嘿,Eric,謝謝你來到我們的節目。

Eric Lowe:嘿。

Darren Wong: 是的,這很有趣,因為我們上次是通過一個叫Jeff的朋友認識的。然後Jeff說,哦,我認識一個退休移民顧問,我想很多觀眾可能會有興趣瞭解這個工作。而這和房地產有什麼關係?所以在我們進一步討論之前,你能向觀眾介紹你自己嗎?以及你在做什麼工作?

Eric Lowe:是的,實際上,我的工作和退休移民有關,當然,在美國,他們說這基本上就是擁有第二個家,基本上退休到一個更便宜、天氣更好的地方,以及更好的其他一切。所以關於退休移民基本上關於退休,基本上,關於你如何找到更便宜的地方,在日常生活和其他一切開支。所以實際上,我是那個試圖找到適合他們需要的地方的人。因為有些人喜歡一些地方,可能是亞洲,有些人喜歡加勒比海,或者類似的地方,你知道在美國,基本上,五個人們想要建立第二個家或移民到的地方是,例如,厄瓜多、巴拿馬、墨西哥和泰國可能是人們希望退休後能有第二個家的熱門地方。所以正如你所說,即使你住在那裡,你也不需要房地產。但基本上,對於那些想要的人,我想要自己的房子,我想要那種安全感,那就是我們的工作的一部分。我的背景基本上是金融。所以基本上,我完全理解他們在經濟上不想有太大開支,他們有足够的生活費,或者他們會考慮一下養老院,或者更多的醫療開支或者類似的事情。因此,他們亦會在與我的諮詢中討論這些顧慮。

Darren Wong:我明白了。所以我們的頻道,更多的是關於房地產,以及很明顯,移民,如果你在投資或租房,你會有這種野心;這真的是聯系在一起的。所以,很多觀眾可能不明白,實際上我自己也不明白,實際上有很多不同類型的移民顧問嗎?那麼退休移民顧問是做什麼的呢?然後最重要的是,他們相比之下有甚麼分別?這更像是行銷上的差別嗎?或是說在服務客戶上的方法的差別?是在這方面有分別嗎?

Eric Lowe:我想,在其他情况下,人們會有一個想法,“哦,我想退休到像夏威夷,我想退休到像泰國這樣的地方”,他們已經有了一個想到的地方,基本上只是需要協助他們,也許購買房產,也許只是在那裡安家落戶或者開個帳戶,或者在那裡開一家公司。所以這些人已經有了想法,而我的工作基本上是告訴他們,例如,另一些人可能不知道想去哪裡。一個很好的例子他們的預算,所以預算可能不到200萬美元,而他們想知道自己的預算是否足够,那麼我可能會是那個坐下來跟他們談談他們的顧慮的人,因為我有金融方面的背景。所以我很清楚財務方面的問題,你能在那裡買房子嗎,還是租房,哪種更便宜,哪種更貴。所以這些是我們可以和他們一起計劃的事情,你知道,所以基本上,這和已經有目標的人有點不同,比如他們為什麼要去某個地方,為了某些特別的原因,所以我們非常開放,可以有不同的地方讓他們考慮。當然,因為全球化,世界就是你的牡蠣,你可以去任何你想去的地方。所以,這更多的是關於他們自己的意願,而不是只給他們一個速成班,只告訴他們“哦,你不必去這個地方”,而不給他們一個機會去思考什麼才是最適合他們的。

Darren Wong:我明白了,那麼我們如何描述退休移民和房地產之間的關係?

Eric Lowe:退休移民更多的是一種生活模式。因為退休是在談論不同類型的基金或者有年金,或者你在談論不同的事情。房地產只是其中的一部分。可能是吧我確實買了一些房產,也許你有租金收入,或者只是我住的地方之類的。所以這大概只是退休移民要準備的五分之一。

Darren Wong:我明白了。很明顯,我要問的最重要的是人們的做法。因為你有金融背景,我敢肯定當你在工作時,你可以考慮有什麼不同投資者的目標會有所不同。那麼,在這種情況下,退休人士或踏入退休年紀的老年人,與其他年齡層比較之下,在涉及房地產投資和租賃的方面有甚麼不同?然後,我在想,比如說老年人,有滿足他們需求的理想中的房產,如果他們是自用的,那麼社區的配套對他們來說真的很重要。那麼你能不能給觀眾講述一下更好的或者更詳細的情況?

Eric Lowe:我認為,談論投資移民或房地產的時候,所以我認為我們談論的兩件事都是與租金收入有關,或者你能從房地產中獲利多少,所以這兩件事非常相似。但是如果你想住在那裡,當然,你只是在說“附近有醫院嗎?還有別的事嗎?我得去很遠的地方坐巴士嗎?”那是他們關心的其他事情。所以我認為在回報方面,這是非常相似的,但是住在社區裏,以及所有的事情,如果他們想把房子用於自己的話,那就十分不一樣了。

Darren Wong:我明白了。比如說在我自己想像的例子裡,它們有什麼不同嗎,你怎麼解釋?比如,他們會有什麼不同的想法?因為顯然,例如,如果我是一個年輕人,我會考慮長期的問題,比如,好吧,也許我只是想組建一個家庭,也許我會考慮在5到10年後搬遷。很明顯,退休的人很不一樣,也許他們賺了很多錢,在退休期間,他們想和沒有工作的孩子們一起生活,他們長大了。當你向他們建議不同類型的房地產,或是說“嘿,他們應該住在哪裡”,你是否考慮到了這一點,這真的那麼重要嗎,因為即使從回報的角度來看,這也沒什麼區別?

Eric Lowe:好吧,要看情况。例如,如果你是一個年輕人,你沒有足夠的錢,基本上,如果你購買房產,很可能你有抵押貸款或類似的東西,即使是在國外。所以也許你的那部分收入會被用於國外的房地產投資。而對於已經退休的人來說,也許他們有自己喜歡的消耗品或金錢,所以他們可以直接地購買,所以他們不需要考慮“哦,我只是有一個抵押貸款要我們考慮,也許要等3到4年,它才成為我的”。那座物業可能是你自己的,也許就在明天或者差不多的日子。而且,當退休的人想到,基本上,他們不必考慮他們的孩子,正如你所說,也許孩子們他們有自己的生活和一切所需。這麼想例如,關於我自己的生活,也許我是一個想去夏威夷或者去追求金融自由的退休人員,當他們考慮到這個問題時,但如果說你已經30歲了,你還得考慮你的孩子,你還得考慮你自己將來的退休生活,實際上是在你的計劃之後,因為你必須先讓你的孩子上大學。所以這是一種非常不同的心態。

Darren Wong: 那麼退休移民和搬遷的趨勢是什麼,因為我們是香港人,我相信你對這個地區比較熟悉?然後有甚麼事情觀眾們需要特別注意,如果他們是在這一刻收看我們的節目?

Eric Lowe:我認為關鍵是如果你在考慮一個地方,那沒有太大的關係。但如果你是在國外購買房產,基本上要確保開發商很有名氣,因為有很多人都在發展中國家投資,可能是越南,也可能是老撾什麼的,他們認為,哦,是個好地方退休或者是個好地方。但你不瞭解開發人員,他們可能會在投資後消失。所以從國外購買房產,基本上要考慮的是風險。所以你必須瞭解開發它的人和一切。所以我認為這是最重要的事情,當你考慮購買外國房產,我認為這就像101,即使你是一個30歲的人,或者你是一個退休人士。但當然,對於一個退休的人來說,基本上你沒有足够的錢。對於年輕人來說,如果他們失去了所有的錢他們可以再把錢賺回來,或者類似的事情。所以這一部分,你在做决定時必須仔細考慮。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。剛才你提到越南和老撾,對嗎?這些地區現在比較熱門嗎?人們現在大多都在考慮搬遷到哪些地方去?

Eric Lowe:我想這是為準備實際上住在那裡的人們的選擇,我想應該是像泰國、馬來西亞、臺灣、巴拿馬之類的地方其他地方,當然更暖和,更便宜,這些都是人們可以考慮的生活因素。比如臺灣,因為台灣人說中文和其他語言,當然食物很相似,文字也一樣。泰國,基本上人們喜歡泰國菜什麼的。所以如果你想住在那裡,你必須確定你過的那種生活,這對你來說是可比的。這不像生活在中東或非洲,這是完全不同的事情,儘管可能更便宜,但是人們會因為巨大的文化差異而考慮到這一點。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以實際上,你能否和我一起模擬一個情況,因為我想知道,比方說例如,如果有一天,20年,30年後,如果我需要像你這樣的人來幫我解决問題,旅行怎麼樣?你介意嗎跟我討論一下整個過程嗎?

Eric Lowe:整個過程怎麼樣?

Darren Wong: 所以我來找你,然後說,“嘿,Eric,我聽說過你。我退休後,我真的很想搬到別的地方去。“我們的合作過程會是怎樣的?

Eric Lowe:我認為這是因為你知道我基本上是一種資產管理人員。比如說,你喜歡什麼樣的地方,你有多少預算?基本上,你對你所到的地方有什麼限制嗎,你想念某些人,還是你?因為我認為這些都是非常重要的,無論你是否有足够的錢,無論你是否想要第三個家或者有個人的喜好,因為如果你喜歡泰國,或者你不喜歡像巴哈馬這樣的地方。我可以一天到晚推薦巴哈馬,但這不會有什麼不同,因為你已經有了一些自己的主見,“哦,我喜歡東南亞”之類的東西。所以我基本上會和你一起合作,而不是試圖把什麼主意推到你身上。


Darren Wong: 我明白了。比如說,好吧,你有關於我應該去哪裡,我應該住在哪裡,什麼聽起來是個好主意的建議,那麼下一步你將如何幫助我?因為我想看看什麼樣的範圍的東西是你會幫助我的,例如,如果我去一個我根本不熟悉的地方,你能幫助我理解或處理什麼事情?或者你是怎麼幫我安頓下來的?對於像你這樣的顧問來說,這也是工作範圍的一部分嗎?

Eric Lowe:我想是的。我鼓勵人們至少去那個地方看看,因為如果你想長期住在那裡,如果你只是想一想,哦,我想明天去那裡,我以前從未去過那裡,這實在不太合理。我認為人們在80年代犯了一個非常嚴重的錯誤,每個人都想去加拿大,他們喜歡加拿大,他們喜歡那裡的東西,但是當他們到了那裡,天哪,雪這麼多,太冷了,我找不到工作,所有的問題都出來了。所以他們不得不賣掉他們的房子,然後回來,一切都是慘敗。所以我想我會對人們說,嘿,也許你們可以一起去看看那個地方,看看你們是否喜歡它。如果你喜歡的話,我們可以考慮買個地方,做些文書工作,一切都從那邊開始。因為如果你覺得不對,你可以做完所有的準備工作,然後最終你並不想去那裡。所以始終要憑眼見為實是真的。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼這是否意味著你也可以幫助他們建議他們應該投資什麼樣的財產?或者他們應該去什麼地方?或者,我不會說你取代房地產經紀人的角色,但你的工作有這些元素,在某種程度上像一個篩檢程式,對嗎?

Eric Lowe:沒錯。例如,我們把人安置在一個新環境,可能是在泰國之類的地方。所以我可以告訴你,實際上有人從香港移民到泰國。所以他們可以告訴你,哦,這些都是他們經歷過的。基本上,他們想讓你能夠避免一些錯誤,以及告訴你基本上所有買食物,買東西的地方。所以基本上,你必須和人們一起討論整個過程過來確保他們想要的是這個。然後在他們經歷了這些之後,他們會說,好吧,我們開始吧。如果他們這麼做了,天哪,我才發現我不喜歡。所以基本上,這是必須停止的,因為我認為人們必須真的很瞭解這個地方。因為住在那裡,尤其是退休後,你沒有太多選擇,基本上你賣掉了你的房子,你來到這裡,然後發現你做錯了决定,我認為這本身就是一場災難。所以我認為作為一名顧問,你要確保他們看到了他們想要的,並且基本上在真正移民的時候不會有任何遺憾。基本上,我認為,一次旅遊,例如,去那裡看房子,也看看那裡的生活方式是很重要的,因為你需要體驗它。不然的話就好像不太負責任,這是整個工作的一部分。這至少對我來說太不真誠了。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以作為一個顧問,幫助人們移民到其他地方,比如搬遷等等,我想你還包括幫助他們申請簽證或申請永久居留身分,顯然,有一些國家會要求你擁有一定的資產或投資一定的金額,對嗎?那些地方是什麼?因為我想給觀眾一個更好的想法,顯然,我之前做了一些功課。我想知道這一點,因為這是一個關鍵點。很多人說,嘿,我想在這個地方投資因為我更容易拿到簽證。所以你能給我舉個例子,告訴我哪些國家,他們需要多少,不同地區的標準是什麼特別是最近比較熱門的?

Eric Lowe: 那麼我現在就從香港的角度告訴你兩個最受歡迎的地方。我想,要麼是臺灣,要麼是泰國。臺灣是因為,當然,我們講同一種語言,用同一種文字,而食物也很類似。基本上,移民到那裡比較容易。在那之後,基本上,你只需要在生意上投資,完成文書工作。所以基本上,如果你有200萬元,基本上,你有點像,好吧,我們可以這樣做,基本上,這就是重點。

Darren Wong: 但是2百萬,你是說美元還是港幣?

Eric Lowe: 港幣。150萬再加上50萬只是為了確保你有地方住,以及其他一切必需品。所以這是你需要存下來的錢。這就是預算。

Darren Wong: 那麼這是否意味著你必須要有這個金額存在你的銀行帳戶上,還是要投資臺灣或公司的資產?

Eric Lowe: 那150萬,你需要投資三年左右,所以一定要做預算。當然,如果你想在臺灣買房子,那是額外的,那並不是必須的。如果你需要的話在那裡住一年,你可以租房或其他什麼,有很多不同的選擇。比如說臺灣的投資移民。就像,例如,另一個例子是泰國,他們當然在一定程度上沒有移民,但是他們有黃金簽證,基本上,當然,只要把100萬港幣存入銀行帳戶,你呢可以在那裡呆10年。所以在那裡住10年意味著,你至少要租一個地方,但買一個地方也是一個選擇。所以我們之所以這麼做,是因為預算非常相似,對感興趣的人來說非常清楚,無論他們是否想在清邁買一套豪華公寓,這是他們的選擇,還是乾脆在曼谷買一套小公寓,只是為了確保你離購物中心很近或者什麼的。那是他們的情况,也差不多。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。其實已經採訪了兩位馬來西亞專家。然後他們提到了一個叫做MM2H的東西,就像一個計畫。你對這個計劃你熟悉嗎?

Eric Lowe:是的,其實,這和臺灣的事情很相似,但是很不幸,我剛聽說兩天前,馬來西亞政府要停止一切。所以很有趣。這就是我不喜歡馬來西亞的原因,因為它是一個穆斯林國家,而且錢不能進出,林吉特不是很容易轉移上去的。或者我覺得有點受限。所以,我不想這麼做。

Darren Wong: 哦,這太酷了。每個人都不一樣。這個節目就是關於這個,你想瞭解房地產投資,對你來說適不適合你完全取決於你個人。很明顯,這個節目的目的是盡可能多的報導所有的事情來幫助人們。所以我想看看因為在準備之前和你交談時,我對退休人士和老年人的心態非常感興趣,我並不是說你的所有客戶都是老年人,有些比較年輕的人可能也會退休。希望有一天,我會成為那樣,很快。所以我們說例如,如果是老年人,他們在便利設施方面會有什麼想法?還有什麼他們在搬家時會擔心什麼?這也許是像我這樣的年輕一代可能不會去想的?

Eric Lowe:我想這都是關於:他們會找朋友嗎?或者他們會高興嗎?或者生活開支會很貴?或者說,對於老年人來說,他們可能需要一個女傭或其他什麼來幫助他們工作什麼的,當然,運輸是需要確認的。所以基本上,這些都是他們搬到一個新國家的擔心,因為在香港到處走動真的很容易。那麼你去泰國,當然和曼谷相比,曼谷其實很容易,因為有了Sky Train什麼的,一切都很好。如果你想去清邁或者其他地方,你可能不得不買一輛車。所以有些人可能會認為,噢我需要一輛車,或是一個司機之類的。所以真的取決於這些事情,但當然,這些是他們最擔心的事情,或者如果他們有長期的健康問題,他們會想,“附近有醫院嗎?”因為他們擔心像曼谷這樣的地方,因為交通太糟糕了,所以如果你出了意外或者其他什麼事,也許你會在去救護車的路上死去。關於那件事,那是個人們常開的玩笑。所以基本上,他們想要住在離醫院或診所較近的地方,讓他們能夠更方便地使用設施。所以這是另一個經常被問到的問題。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以,即使我現在的想法是,比如說,很明顯,我是從房地產的角度來看的,你會想到每一個地方,最靠近的便利設施在社區的哪裡,您在購物中心附近嗎,附近有美食廣場嗎?就在附近的醫院嗎?所以它在市區的中心。我說的對嗎?

Eric Lowe:或者接近?是的,如果你要走動的話這基本上可能就像汽車5分鐘或什麼的?很接近你還是怎樣?

Darren Wong: 我明白了。是的,我想這只是一個一直在我的腦海裏的問題。我知道的移民顧問或專家不多,背後的原因是什麼?顯然,這是個私人問題。因為,對我來說,我花了很長時間才找到像你這樣的人和你的背景,對此我非常誠實對我來說很少見,但是在這個行業裏,我永遠不知道在哪裡可以找到它們。有沒有一種方法可以方便地獲取這些資訊或者找個像你這樣的人來做這種服務?

Eric Lowe: 我認為,因為我在金融領域,而且因為我在銷售領域,所以這個工作來得很自然,因為我們做很多不同類型的事情,可能不僅僅是股票或債券之類的,還有其他的事情,比如我們的投資財產。所以實際上,移民只是故事的其中一步。因為很多人其實都是一心一意的。所以你呢看到很多關於去臺灣、去馬來西亞、去葡萄牙的廣告,似乎很容易把這些工作規範起來,而我們基本上是這樣或多或少像是一個顧問,能够通過它,就像一種私人銀行家的心態,這樣我就能做到對你來說,不是說葡萄牙很棒。我剛剛看到你對葡萄牙的興趣,我會告訴你關於葡萄牙的一切,因為我說的是關於葡萄牙的。我也會關心臺灣或者泰國。基本上就是這樣。這就是我的工作。所以,當然,做一個個案要比做五六個容易得多。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。是的,這似乎是觀眾應該記下來的,因為很多時候,有些人,顯然,在這個角色中,他們必須非常賣力地推銷他們手頭上有一種產品,因此其實退後一步讓你看到不同的選擇十分重要,然後說,也許這是更重要的,也許這個地點不是唯一的選擇。然後我們將討論一些我認為觀眾可能想知道更多的東西:我們如何建議觀眾瞭解更多關於這個話題?除了接觸你之外,還有哪些資源可以讓他們閱讀更多,學習更多?

Eric Lowe:我認為有太多的資訊,有很多資料和專題你都可以找到。你可以用Google搜索,它無處不在。

Darren Wong: 是的。好吧,我們有了是的,是的,我們把那部分删掉了。別擔心這個。是啊。可以。是啊。很抱歉,剛才因為,是的,這是我告訴作者的提議,你知道,他删掉了那部分。但我還是繼續走。比如,問題是,你知道,你是如何建議聽眾去瞭解更多關於這個主題的知識,還有一些什麼資料,你知道,他們可以閱讀,然後進一步聯系你。

Eric Lowe:是的,我剛才說的是,那裡有太多的資訊,當然在社交媒體或報紙上,這並不是缺少資訊,也許有太多的資訊需要瀏覽。所以基本上,如果你想找到你想要的東西,基本上必須經過,篩選所有資訊,因為每個人都有部分解決方案,但不是完整的解決方案。然後你必須先經歷這些,基本上,我可以幫你找到你想要的東西,然後試著找到他們現時能夠提供的、適合你的任何方面需要。所以這是一種不同的管道,更像是為你自己做,而不是千篇一律,比如去鞋店,他們沒有尺碼,所以基本上,如果你選小一個碼或者放個墊子之類的。所以事實上也是一樣,很難找到完全符合你想要的條件的東西。

Darren Wong: 關於整個數據,就像到處都是的資訊,我想這就是Denzity的目的,對吧?所以是的。我想還有很多問題。以及老實說,如果聽眾有任何意見和問題,我可以隨時向您諮詢。最後,你想讓觀眾在這集節目結束前能夠帶走甚麼有用的資訊?

Eric Lowe:我希望觀眾在看到這集節目,他們知道他們有選擇,我最重要的是,人們會認為,無論外界給你什麼,你都要考慮巴拿馬,你必須考慮葡萄牙或任何地方,只要他們有在提供選擇。但關鍵是,如果你想要什麼,你也可以做一些研究,也可以找到像我這樣可以的人找到你想要的東西。我認為這很重要,因為力量在過程中,對於像我這樣的人,從根本上來說,這比跳過所有已建立的資訊並找到真正喜歡的東西要容易得多。所以基本上,這是一個過程。

Darren Wong: 我明白了,我認為這是結束節目的好時間。如果聽眾想接觸你來進一步了解你,你建議他們用什麼方法找到你?

Eric Lowe:基本上,實際上我在LinkedIn,這樣他們就可以在那裡找到我,他們能在Eric Lowe的找到我。基本上,你可以在那邊找到它。或者我可以留下我的電話號碼或者類似的東西,如果他們願意的話。

Darren Wong: 是的,我可以把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記裏。我只想感謝你抽出時間。我想即使房地產行業和·退休移民,這顯然不是一個非常緊密的關聯。但也有相關的聯繫,因為在我的頭腦裏有時我會想,我必須移民,不是退休,而是重新安置居所,然後問題會是,哦,天哪,我該住在那裡?我該去哪裡?我周圍有什麼?有什麼我熟悉的嗎?我想在我高中的時候,我去溫哥華的時候,我的第一句話就是:“嘿,中國菜館離學校有多遠?”我就說,“好吧,這是一個非常重要的問題”。顯然,這在當時是很小的事情。但現在想想,]如果你要搬到很遠的地方,不要僅僅依賴Google地圖,你應該真正依靠擁有像你這樣的人,知道發生了什麼,至少,甚至可以先去那裡想想那是不是適合你的地方。所以我只想說,Eric,謝謝你的時間,我真的很感激,我希望你下次能再來。

Eric Lowe:好的,沒問題。我在這集節目過得很愉快。

Darren Wong:是的,謝謝,祝您愉快。

Eric Lowe:你也是。祝您今天過得愉快。Darren Wong: 你也是。再見。

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: PropTech’s Uprising with Leo Lo

PropTech’s Uprising with Leo Lo

PropTech is making waves in Hong Kong – a city that used to rely heavily on traditional real estate practices. Covid restrictions have forced the real estate industry to innovate and accelerate its digital transformation, although often to mixed results. Here we have PropTech pioneer, Leo Lo, to talk more about this thriving trend and what businesses should look out for. 

▶  Key Discussion:

  • PropTech 101
  • PropTech Accelerating
  • PropTech Trends in 2020
  • Why PropTech in Hong Kong starts slow
  • Real estate embraces innovation
  • About Asia PropTech

▶ Connect with Leo:

▶ Source & Supporting:

PropTech (Property Tech): “PropTech” is a recent buzzword in commercial real estate. Similar to “FinTech” (‘finance + technology”), PropTech is a movement in the real estate market toward efficient systems rooted in exploring the digital landscape and tending to new consumption patterns. 

ConTech (Construction Tech): ConTech is basically the technology used to innovate the way we plan, design, and build structures, as well as the manufacture and installation of their components. ConTech is, in fact, PropTech, due to the overlap that naturally arises between the two. 

Asia PropTech: Established in 2016, Asia PropTech is a community/association that connects PropTech players and industry stakeholders in Asia. It aspires to promote the adoption of PropTech in Asia and facilitate intra-regional trade in PropTech  through events, knowledge sharing and management, and strategic partnership with PropTech peer organizations in Europe and the United States. 

UK PropTech Association: The UK PropTech Association (UKPA) is a not-for-profit membership organisation set up to drive the digital transformation of the property industry by promoting engagement between PropTech and Property businesses, and creating an environment conducive for PropTech innovation. 

Global PropTech: Global PropTech is the first and leading global innovation platform for the real estate and construction sector. The platform focuses on developing insights, sharing knowledge between different countries, and matchmaking in order to create a future-proof industry. 

Chartered surveyor: A Chartered Surveyor is a specialist who assesses properties for defects, future issues or problems. They can also work out the value of a property. 

Automated valuation model (AVM): Automated Valuation Model (AVM) is a term for a service that uses mathematical or statistical modeling combined with databases of existing properties and transactions to calculate real estate values. The majority of automated valuation models (AVMs) compare the values of similar properties at the same point in time. 

Smart City: In general, a smart city is a city that uses technology to provide services and solve city problems. A smart city does things like improve transportation and accessibility, improve social services, promote sustainability, and give its citizens a voice. 

FinTech: Fintech is the term used to refer to innovations in the financial and technology crossover space, and typically refers to companies or services that use technology to provide financial services to businesses or consumers.,services%20to%20businesses%20or%20consumers

MLS Platform: The MLS is a tool to help listing brokers find cooperative brokers working with buyers to help sell their clients’ homes. Without the collaborative incentive of the existing MLS, brokers would create their own separate systems of cooperation, fragmenting rather than consolidating property information. 

Virtual Reality: Virtual reality (VR) refers to a computer-generated simulation in which a person can interact within an artificial three-dimensional environment using electronic devices, such as special goggles with a screen or gloves fitted with sensors. In this simulated artificial environment, the user is able to have a realistic-feeling experience. 

Augmented Reality: Augmented reality (AR) is an enhanced version of the real physical world that is achieved through the use of digital visual elements, sound, or other sensory stimuli delivered via technology. It is a growing trend among companies involved in mobile computing and business applications in particular. 

Building Information Modelling (BIM): Building Information Modeling (BIM) is an intelligent 3D model-based process that gives architecture, engineering, and construction (AEC) professionals the insight and tools to more efficiently plan, design, construct, and manage buildings and infrastructure.,and%20manage%20buildings%20and%20infrastructure

Country Garden: Established in September 2017, Country Garden Properties (Hong Kong) Limited (Country Garden Hong Kong) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Country Garden Holdings Company Limited (stock code: 2007.HK). Country Garden Hong Kong has two residential projects currently under development, one is Altissimo in Yiu Sha Road, Ma On Shan and the other is in Carpenter Road, Kowloon City. 

28Houses: 28Hse provides information for the Hong Kong property market, including latest property listings by agents and landlords, property transaction data, market news, used furniture trading etc. 

Evergrande: The Evergrande Group or the Evergrande Real Estate Group (previously Hengda Group) is China’s second-largest property developer by sales. It is based in southern China’s Guangdong Province, and sells apartments mostly to upper and middle-income dwellers. As of 2018, it is the world’s most valuable real estate company. 

SoftBank: SoftBank got its start in 1981 in Tokyo. Founded as a telecommunications company, SoftBank now has a hand in a number of different areas, including e-commerce, finance, broadband, marketing, and more. The company has a portfolio including SoftBank BB, GungHo Online Entertainment, IDC Frontier, and more. In recent years, it has gone on a spending spree, buying up numerous smaller companies and initiating investments in many others. 

Katerra: Katerra is putting modern technology to work at all levels of building design and construction to help address some of the industry’s most entrenched challenges, utilizing many of the disciplines, processes, and technologies that drove the extraordinary productivity gains of industrialized industries over the last 50 years. We work in a growing number of construction market sectors – including multifamily, senior, affordable housing, educational, industrial, hospitality, medical, and commercial developments. 

Unicorn (for startup): A unicorn is a term used in the venture capital industry to describe a privately held startup company with a value of over $1 billion. 

Li Ka-Shing: Nicknamed Superman, Li Ka-shing is revered as one of the most influential businessmen in Asia. 

BlockChain: Blockchain is a specific type of database.It differs from a typical database in the way it stores information; blockchains store data in blocks that are then chained together. 

Cyberport: Cyberport is an innovative digital community with over 1,500 start-ups and technology companies. It is managed by Hong Kong Cyberport Management Company Limited, which is wholly owned by the Hong Kong SAR Government.,the%20Hong%20Kong%20SAR%20Government

Shih Wing-Ching: Shih Wing-ching iis a Hong Kong businessman. His family are from Ningbo in Zhejiang but he came to Hong Kong at an early age. In 1978 he established Centaline Property Agency Limited, which is now one of the largest property agencies in both Hong Kong and China. 

▶ Disclaimer:

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As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Darren Wong: So Leo, welcome to the show.

Leo Lo: Hello Darren. 

Darren Wong: So it’s interesting, right? Because I know you for four or five years and I always said that you’re someone that I’ve learned about property tech through you and you inspired me a lot. So obviously, like I would say, thanks through this medium first about you inspiring me. And then I want the audience know more about your work, and obviously about Asia Proptech. So would you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself, your work, and then what you’re working on? 

 Leo Lo: All right. So yeah, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to be one of your interviewees for your video. And thanks for setting up this because I think it’s quite meaningful to let the property players and the investors know more about the innovations in the real estate industry. First of all, myself, my name is Leo Lo. Actually, my background, I’m a chartered estate surveyor. So suppose I work in a very traditional real estate, investment,  financing, and land matters related industry. So I’m now working on both things, one is more on the traditional side, and running my own business in a real estate consultancy, and also, with the investment, we also do boutique real estate development in other countries. At the same time, we also start proptech some years ago, I established Asian PropTech, probably the first proptech dedicated community found in Asia Pacific  region. I started in 2016. At the moment of time, there were not many people talking about proptech. So I  felt very excited. And also lonely when I talk about proptech at that time, and later on, I think I knew you from some event, I forgot that. You’re so passionate about the innovations in real estate, I appreciated it. And now, after several years, especially for the first one to two years, we spent a lot of effort in connecting the people in Europe and North America, who are interested in proptech. Somehow Asia is lagging behind, comparatively speaking, maybe two, three years. So, in 2016, in 2017, Asia PropTech got a lot of connections with those European counterparts. They have so many proptech associations, like the UK proptech, German proptech, or  Global proptech, you name it. I also myself, was always invited by them to speak about proptech scene in Asia, to share with them about the proptech situation and development in the Asia Pacific region.  For these one to two years, I think the whole proptech scene becomes very active in Asia Pacific region, especially the developers here, the estate investors here, they are all keen on looking forward to some innovations that can be brought to their projects, how to add values to their projects, etc. So, so that’s Asia PropTech. And we are now providing few things to the real estate industry about innovations, or we provide consultancy services on proptech. We still keep on connecting people around the world.  We work closely with other proptech associations publicly, like PropTech Institute in Hong Kong as founded by you. We are working very close together. That’s great. And we also try to set up some what we call “cocreation lab” in the region. But sadly because the COVID-19, progress is sluggish. We cannot make travels. So I think we still need to work on more, hopefully maybe next year, to set up some cocreation  labs with the governments, with the industry in some countries in Asia, like Malaysia, Singapore, greater Bay Area etc. So, yeah, that’s Asia PropTech and myself. We also have our own proptech solution, because I am a chartered surveyor. So my interest is more on real estate analysis the valuation side. So we developing what we call AVM, the automated valuation model, try to  assist the real estate investors and financers about the true valuation of real estate.

Darren Wong:That’s  pretty good. It’s interesting, because you touched so many different points of the real estate spectrum, like from valuation, from the investment side, consultancy, and obviously now proptech is something that I want to talk to you about. And then, it’s always excited about property tech, because I think that is something has a really, really big potential for the industry. And then you have been in a forefront just kickstarted everything. So I want to say thanks for this. So pretty quickly for the audience, I want take a step back to tell the audience about property tech,  would you mind give a very brief description of what it is and what it isn’t?

Leo Lo: Sure. Proptech, I think the term becomes popular only within these 10 years, even less than seven years. I think, originally, the US they call it real estate tech, the Europe and the UK to use property as real estate, so they call proptech/property tech. To me, I think somehow proptech is just a buzzword. So just like fin tech, just like health tech, inshore tech, I think any technologies, any innovations that can be applied in real estate and construction  industry can be regarded as proptech. So some people would suggest that proptech is something overlapping with smart cities, for example, or overlapping with a fintech, for example. I think the answer is yes. Somehow is yes, because there are no particular technologies, you can say, oh, it’s only proptech, it’s not being fintech. So It depends on which technologies you’re using, and somehow it’s not only about the hard technologies, it’s also about innovation. For example, business model innovation. Say, we got a coworking or coliving are also the verticals under the banner of proptech. Coworking doesn’t use any rocket-science technology, but somehow they have a very innovative business model. They actually changed or disrupt a bit about the relationship between landlords and tenants. And especially this year, we encountered a pandemic situation, many people working from home. So,  co-working is actually an idea, try to shuffle the relationship, the interest between landlords and tenants. So, it is also regarded as proptech. Or give you a more examples like we talk about proptech from proptech 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. So 1.0 is more related to those using the internet economy in the real estate industry, like many people start their proptech business, first of all, they focus on the multiple MLS platforms. So in Hong Kong, for example,, even for Centaline, Midland, they develop their own platforms. I think these are, of course, a proptech. So they try to minimise the cost of information, or some of them even they want to get rid of agents. So this is proptech. And  2.0 is something like they use drones, they use VR, they use AR to assist the real estate or the construction process. Say, even BIM, Building Information modelling. I can say that BIM is even invented earlier than the term of proptech. So this is fantastic to assist the constructor, the project, the real estate manager.  And 3.0 is something like they use more data analytics, AI or blockchain, try to facilitate the real estate transactions. So it is the buzzword. And there’s no concrete definition of proptech. So any technologies, any business model innovations that can facilitate real estate and construction industry can be regarded as proptech.

Darren Wong: I see. I think it’s really interesting, because when you talk about it, you can see, like a history of how proptech have evolved. So I’m just kind of curious too, because we both know that proptech adoption or at least the awareness of proptech was slower before and this year is somehow has accelerated really fast. What do you think is the reason behind that?

Leo Lo: Hong Kong as an example, I think, especially in the first one to two years, when I established Asia Proptech, when I talk to the developers, the local developers, I think, the FAQ, the frequently asked questions, on proptechs, they would like to know, okay, if I use proptech, how much I can save the cost, and how much the profit can be boosted? So this is very direct, I think that they’re asking something correct. Because these two factors are the main elements in real estate development, for example. So the concern much about what actually proptech can help, but in some years before or for the previous 10 years, Hong Kong, for example, the real estate market is performing quite good. To be honest, it’s not that difficult for those established real estate developers to earn money, even without using tech, even without using innovations.  So somehow proptech is a was just like, a tool for them to window dressing instead of, you know, they really want to use proptech to solve the problems. But not until this year, I think for the whole world, we encountered the pandemic situation, as mentioned, for the office, landlords, they are facing higher and higher vacancy rates, even in central, even in the CBD in many major cities in the world. For the retail malls for example, street shops, the high street shops, the vacancy rates are getting higher. So somehow they turn their head to proptech, again, they really want to see how proptech can help. And this time, they are serious, because proptech can really differentiate different levels. Say in China, for example, in the mainland China, I think, some years ago, we even discussed or talk about if Country Garden, for example, will collapse in one day, even evergrande, in recent two to three weeks there are bad news about evergrande. I want to say is in China or in other countries, the real estate market is, maybe probably, comparatively competitive. So the developers, even the big developers, are keen on make themselves more innovative. Say Country Garden, I mentioned, they started to use construction tech, they started to put money into R&D of robotics in construction. I know many real estate developers in the mainland China, they have in-house incubators. They put a lot of effort to encourage their employees to suggest some innovative solutions to their industry. I think they’re really putting some true effort in pushing the innovation. that’s different. So to answer your question, I think in the past, maybe the real estate companies were in the comfort zone,  but now they need to look into what innovation or proptech can really help.

Darren Wong: I see. So what is the current state of the proptech industry in the world at the moment and which segments have become more popular?

Leo Lo: As I mentioned, in proptech sector, we already used 3.0 to describe the current situation. And I don’t think we made progress to 4.0 proptech We haven’t reached that stage yet. But now I think, comparatively speaking, I think construction related tech would be more favourable. Because somehow, some people may suggest that okay, well, real estate tech is a platform is just try to lower the communication cost. Somehow real estate tech is not that on the ground, but construction related tech is more on the ground. That means, say, if you use 3d printing for constructing a house, if you use some innovative building materials like engineering bamboo, for example, I know some companies that are doing that, they are very concrete, I mean, they are on the ground that can save the cost, save the time, even BIM as I mentioned, these solutions are more favourable. And you can see even SoftBank, they invest in a company called Katerra. I think, if I’m correct, they’re based in Silicon Valley, they are more on the contech, a construction tech sector. After the investment made by SoftBank, they became a unicorn. So that is a fair point, an example. I think, even for the Hong Kong billionaires, for example, as I know, say, the  ventures from Mr. Li Ka-shing. They also invest in quite some building management or energy management related companies in June. So to answer your question, I think construction tech, or building tech, or energy management related tech, are competitively attractive or more favourable back to real estate, I think data analytics would be something under the spotlight as well. Somehow we probably overestimate blockchain in some years ago. But I always suggest that of course, we cannot underestimate the blockchain applications in real estate industry in the coming 5 to 10 years. But somehow, it still takes time, say because blockchain, we still need to work with the governments, we need work with the regulators. So we need to be patient to wait for blockchain to change the industry. So to me, real estate, data analytics, AI assistant or powered tech that can help to facilitate real estate transaction that would be great.

Darren Wong: I see. So a lot of people, obviously, we all acknowledge. We’re part of the industry, we felt that proptech that has been increasing faster. But people still think that the proptech Hong Kong scene is a bit slower. What’s the reasoning behind it? And what are the challenge for that reason, in your opinion?

Leo Lo: I think I mentioned about a bit about this. Because of the real estate developers, most of them actually are under the comfort zone. So they are not keen on changing themselves to compare with other countries. That is one of the reasons. I think secondly,  it’s about the government support. Because Hong Kong government, they try to assist, on how FinTech or smart cities a lot. They create some task force, or they at least they name FinTech or smart cities as the major your stream that they need to put effort or resources in. But proptech seems to me it’s still, not many people talk about. I know Cyberport may we discuss the idea recently, we face it, the, the streams, they need to focus on maybe proptech would be under the spotlight. So I think that’s important because somehow in Asia, with the government support, no matter is money or network or market, that will be helpful. So I look forward to one day Hong Kong government would name proptech as one of the very cool things to put much resources in. I think, somehow, the number of proptech companies is not that big. I mean, the number is not that big in Hong Kong. It’s also one of the reasons that makes Hong Kong a bit slow, because first of all Hong Kong, I mean, the startup ecosystem is not that big compared with Singapore, Malaysia, Korea. I always say that even for the tech people in Hong Kong, if they want to make a startup, they want to start a tech or business model innovation company, they would rather choose maybe other industries, not real estate, not construction, they start their company in FinTech, in health tech, in education tech. Somehow, because real estate in Hong Kong is such a big market with big companies already, so for those proptech people, they may be reluctant to have their company started in real estate and construction. Because the investors will ask them, say, if Okay, Mr. Li Ka-shing do something similar. How your company can survive, say if Mr. Shih Wing-Ching do something similar, how can your company survive? So it’s quite discouraging, somehow. And for the real estate, or construction industry, people in Hong Kong, because I think if you are working in this industry before I’m working in this industry, somehow I think we also in the comfort zone, and most of them are, actually, employees, and they may not be that entrepreneurial. At that sense, so you cannot find many people coming from real estate and construction industry  jumping out to start their company. So that’s also one of the reasons. So that makes proptech not active at this moment. But I still believe that the situation would get better in the coming years.

Darren Wong: Let’s hope so. And if you can deliver a message to all the real estate industry leaders orproptech leaders, what would that be?

Leo Lo: I think I would suggest, I would like to say embrace is the key, say, embracing the innovations and embracing any new ideas, like what I’m developing now on AVM, as I mentioned, automated valuation model, somehow it’s challenging the traditional surveyors jobs. And also, we also need to work with the regulators, work with the professional institute. I think the institutes, the regulators are the players in the industry should at least adopt embracing mentality. Otherwise, I think the society cannot be improved, and that’s something I want to suggest.

Darren Wong: That’s pretty good. It is a really good message. Yeah, I get it. But it’s something that it’s coming. But you’ve got to keep going and keep trying the best to build the best product out there.

Leo Lo: The trend, like I mentioned about blockchain, although we a bit overestimate the impact in this one to  two years, but it will definitely change or improve the industry in the coming five to 10 years. So we need to embrace any innovation.

Darren Wong: I see. So one last thing, because obviously, we can go hours and hours on it. And then I think in the future, if I ever asked you to come to the show, it’ll be really cool that we can talk about very specific segments of what’s going on. Because proptech is a very broad. And it’ll be just hardware to software. Yeah, there’s a lot of things there. But we can go drill down more and more in details. So in the Interim, if the audience want to learn more about property tech, or want to ask for your service, how would they contact you? How you suggest them to contact you and talk to you further?

Leo Lo: All right. So you’re welcome to visit my web page, And you can find the contact details of myself. And, of course, you can search my name, Leo Lo, on LinkedIn, you will definitely find myself. Feel free to text me and leave me a message. I’ll get back to you.

Darren Wong: Yeah, I’ve had everything in the show notes. And I want to say thanks for your time to being here. And I really think that we’re just in the beginning of the whole industry, and I can’t wait for five years from now would be like, wow, just so many things happening. And then we are obviously part of the industry too, we start the whole thing.Yeah, for sure. Let’s see how it goes. And thanks for your time. I really appreciate your time again and then next time come again.

Leo Lo: Thank you so much.

Darren Wong: Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye

Darren Wong: 那麼,Leo,歡迎來到本集節目。

Leo Lo :你好,Darren。

Darren Wong: 其實這很有趣,對吧?因為我認識你四、五年了,而我一直說我是通過你瞭解房地產科技的,你啟發了我很多。所以很明顯,就像我要說的,首先感謝你通過這個媒介激勵我。然後我想讓觀眾更多地瞭解你的工作,當然還有Asia Proptech。那麼你介意告訴觀眾一些關於你自己,你的工作,以及你目前在做什麼?

Leo Lo:好的。所以,首先,非常感謝您邀請我作為您的節目嘉賓。然後謝謝你設立這個節目,因為我認為讓房地產和投資者更進一步瞭解房地產業創新十分有意義。首先,我自己,我的名字叫Leo Lo。事實上,我的背景,我是一名特許地產量測師。假設我在一個非常傳統的房地產投資行業工作,與金融、土地相關產業。所以我現在在做兩件事,一件是從傳統的角度來看,我在一家房地產諮詢公司經營自己的業務,而且,通過投資,我們我們在其他國家的房地產開發也發展精品房地產。同時,我們也在好幾年前開始了房地產科技發展,我建立了Asia PropTech,可能是亞太地區第一個專業房地產科技的平台。我是在2016年開始的。當時,很少有人談論房地產科技,所以當時我感覺非常興奮。但當我談論房地產科技的時候也很孤獨,後來,我想我是從一些活動裡認識你的我不太清楚了。我很感激你對房地產的創新如此熱情。以及現在,經過幾年之後,特別是開始的一到兩年,我們花了很多精力來連接歐洲和北美對房地產科技感興趣的人。不知怎麼的,相對之下,亞洲落後了可能是兩三年。因此,在2016年,2017年,Asia PropTech與歐洲同行的有很多聯系。他們有很多房地產科技協會,比如英國房地產科技,德國房地產科技公司,或者環球房地產科技,你說得出的都有。以及我自己也總是被邀請向大家介紹亞洲房地產科技的環境,分享亞太地區房地產科技的現狀和發展。在這一到兩年的時間裏,我認為整個亞太地區的房地產科技領域都變得非常活躍,尤其是這裡的開發商,這裡的房地產投資者,他們都很熱衷、期待能為他們的項目帶來一些創新,如何為他們的項目新增價值,等等,所以這就是Asia PropTech。我們現在為房地產行業提供的幾項創新,或者我們提供房地產科技方面的諮詢服務。我們仍然在不斷地聯系世界各地的人。我們與其他房地產技術協會有密切的公開合作,例如由您創辦的香港房地產科技協會。我們在工作上有密切的來往,這是一件很好的事。我們還試圖建立一些我們稱之為“合作實驗室”在這地區。但不幸的是,由於COVID-19,這個項目進展緩慢。我們不能來往各個地區。所以我認為我們還需要做更多的工作,希望明年,建立一些合作實驗室,在亞洲的一些國家,如馬來西亞、新加坡、大灣區等,與政府和行業合作。所以,是的,這就是Asia PropTech和我自己。我們也有自己的科技解決方案,因為我是特許量測師。所以我的興趣更多的是房地產分析和估價方面。所以我們開發了我們稱之為AVM的自動估價模型,試圖協助房地產投資者和財務人員瞭解房地產的真實價值。

Darren Wong: 這十分好。這很有趣,因為你觸及了房地產領域的許多不同點,比如從估值、投資、諮詢等方面,顯然現在我想和你談談房地產科技。然後,房地產科技總是令人十分興奮,因為我認為這對這個行業有著非常巨大的潜力。然後你一直站在最前線,推動一切開始發展。所以我想對你說謝謝。所以為了觀眾們,我想很快地先基本告訴觀眾關於房地產科技,你能簡單描述一下它是什麼,以及它並不是什麼嗎?

Leo Lo :當然。一個房地產科技,我認為這一詞彙只在這10年內開始流行,甚至不到7年。我想,最初,美國稱之為房地產科技,歐洲和英國將資產稱為房地產,因此他們稱之為“資產科技”,我只是覺得科技是一種科技。就像金融科技,健康科技,近海科技,我認為任何科技,任何可以應用於房地產和建築的創新工業都可以看作是房地產科技,所以有人會說房地產科技是與例如智慧都市,或金融科技等產業重疊。我想答案是肯定的。不知何故是的,因為沒有特殊的科技,你可以說,哦,這只是房地產科技,不是用於金融科技公司。所以這取決於你使用的是哪種科技,而且不知何故,這不僅是關於硬科技,而且也關於創新。比如商業模式創新。比如說,我們有一個共事或合作也是以房地產科技為主的垂直行業。合作工作不使用任任何複雜的技術,但不知何故他們的商業模式非常創新。他們實際上改變了或者擾亂了房東和房客之間的關係。尤其是今年,我們遇到了病毒全球大流行的情况,很多人在家工作。所以,合作工作實際上是一種想法,嘗試重新建立關係,和房東和房客之間的利益。所以,它也被認為是房地產科技。或者給你一個更多的例子,比如我們談起房地產科技會說從房地產科技1.0,2.0,到3.0。所以1.0與房地產行業使用互聯網經濟的人更為相關,比如許多人開始了他們的房地產科技業務,首先,他們專注於多個MLS平臺。所以在香港,為了示例,28house.com網站即使是在Midland的Centaline,他們也開發自己的平臺。我當然,認為這些是一種房地產科技,所以他們儘量降低資訊成本,或其中一些成本他們甚至不使用中介。所以這是房地產科技2.0就像他們使用無人機,他們使用虛擬實境,他們使用AR來協助房地產或施工過程。即使是BIM,建築資訊建模。我可以說BIM這個詞甚至比房地產科技還更早出現。所以這對於幫助施工方、項目和房地產經理來說是非常棒的。和3.0就像他們使用更多的資料分析、人工智慧或區塊鏈,努力促進房地產交易。所以這就是我們流行使用的詞。而且其實房地產科技沒有具體的定義。因此,任何能夠促進房地產和建築業的科技、商業模式創新都可以被視為房地產科技。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。我認為這真的很有趣,因為當你談論它的時候,你可以看到,像房地產科技如何演變的歷史。所以我只是也有點好奇,因為我們都知道,房地產科技的採用或者至少對房地產科技的認識以前比較慢,而今年不知何故速度非常快。你認為這背後的原因是什麼?

Leo Lo:以香港為例,我認為,尤其是在我剛成立Asia Proptech的一到兩年裏,當我與開發商、本地發展商交談時,我想,常見問題解答,關於房地產科技的最常見問題,他們想知道,好吧,如果我使用房地產科技,我可以節省多少錢成本,利潤能提高多少?所以這很直接,我認為他們在問正確的問題。因為這兩個因素是房地產開發的主要因素。所以這是對於房地產科技的實際幫助的關注,但在過去的幾年裏或之前,以香港為例,10年來,房地產市場表現相當不錯。說實話,對於那些老牌房地產開發商來說,即使不使用科技,甚至不使用創新,賺錢也不會有太大的困難。所以房地產科技就像是他們用來裝飾的工具,而不是,你知道的,他們真想用房地產科技來解决問題。但直到今年,我想對於全世界來說,我們遇到了病毒全球大流行的問題,就如剛才所說的,對於辦公室、房東來說,他們面臨著越來越高的空缺,在世界上許多主要城市,即使是在市中心,甚至在中央商務區。比如零售商場,街頭商店,商業街商店,空置率越來越高。所以他們又轉過頭來支持科技,他們真的很想看看房地產科技能幫上什麼忙。這一次,他們是認真的,因為房地產科技可以真正區分不同的層次。比如說在中國,在中國大陸,我想,幾年前,我們甚至討論或談論碧桂園是否會在一天內倒閉,甚至恒大,,最近兩三星期恒大也有壞消息。我想說的是在中國還是在其他國家,房地產市場是,也許,相對來說競爭激烈。所以開發商,甚至是大開發商,都熱衷於讓自己更加創新。比如碧桂園,我提到過,他們開始使用建築技術,開始投入資金參與建築機器人的研發。我認識很多中國大陸的房地產開發商,他們都有內部的培養。他們花了很多精力鼓勵員工為他們的工業提供創新建議。我認為他們真的在推動創新方面付出了一些真正的努力。所以那就不同了。所以回答你的問題,我想在過去,也許房地產公司處於舒適圈,但現在他們需要研究創新或支持科技能,才能真正起到什麼作用。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼房地產科技的現狀如何呢現時世界上的產業,哪些細分市場更受歡迎?

Leo Lo: 正如我提到的,在房地產科技領域,我們已經使用3.0來描述當前的情况。我不認為我們在科技進展方面到達了4.0。我們還沒有達到那個階段。但現在我認為,相對而言,我認為與施工相關的科技將更為有利。因為不知何故,有些人可能會建議,好吧,房地產科技是一個平臺,所以儘量降低通信成本吧。不知何故,房地產科技並不是那麼實際,但與建築相關的科技更多的是在實際施工上。也就是說,如果你用3D列印來建造房子使用一些創新的建築材料,例如工程竹,我知道一些公司正在這樣做,他們是非常有效具體的,我的意思是,他們能够節省成本、節省時間,即使是我提到的BIM,這些解決方案更為有利。你甚至可以看到Softbank,他們投資一家叫做Katerra的公司。我想,如果我是對的,他們的總部在矽谷他們更著重關於Contech,一個建築技術部門。在Softbank投資之後,他們變成了獨一無二的公司。所以這是公平的一個例子。我想,即使對香港的億萬富翁來說,我知道,比如說李嘉誠先生的投資。6月份,他們還投資了相當多的建築管理或能源管理相關公司。所以為了回答您的問題,我認為建築技術或建築技術或能源管理相關科技是對於房地產行業來說,更具有競爭力的吸引力或更有利的回報,我認為資料分析可能也會受到一些關注。也許在以往的某些年裏我們高估了區塊鏈但我始終認為,當然,我們不能低估區塊鏈在未來5-10年在房地產行業的應用。但不知何故,這仍然需要時間,比如說,因為區塊鏈,我們仍然需要與政府合作,我們需要與監管機构合作。所以我們需要耐心等待區塊鏈改變行業。所以對我來說,房地產,資料分析,人工智慧助理或動力科技可以幫助促進房地產交易的話就太好了。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以很多人,顯然,我們都承認。我們是這個行業的一部分,我們覺得這個行業增長得很快。但人們仍然認為房地產科技香港的發展有點慢。背後的原因是什麼?在你看來,這個原因的挑戰是什麼?

Leo Lo:我想我提到過關於這個。因為房地產開發商,他們中的大多數實際上都是在舒適區。因此,他們並不熱衷於改變自己來與其他國家進行比較。這是原因之一。我想第二,是關於政府的支持。因為香港政府,他們試圖協助金融科技或者智慧都市。他們成立了一些特別工作組,或者至少他們命名金融科技或智慧都市作為他們需要投入精力或資源的主流。但我覺得房地產科技依然很少有人談論。我知道在數碼港我們可以討論一下這個想法,我們面對它,對於主流媒體,他們需要關注的是,也許房地產科技會成為焦點。所以我覺得這很重要因為在亞洲,在政府的支持下,無論是資金、網絡還是市場,都會有幫助。所以我期待有一天香港政府會將房地產科技視為可以投入大量資源的有潛力的東西之一。我想,不知怎麼的,房地產科技公司的數量並不多。我的意思是,在香港這個數位不是那麼大。這也是讓香港有點慢,因為首先香港,我的意思是,與新加坡、馬來西亞和韓國相比,創業生態系統並沒有那麼大。我總是說,即使對香港的科技人來說,如果他們想創業,他們想要創立一家科技或商業模式創新型的公司,他們寧願選擇其他行業,而不是房地產建築業,他們在金融科技、健康科技、教育科技等領域創立了自己的公司。不知怎麼的,因為香港的房地產是一個很大的市場,已經有了大公司,所以對於那些純粹的房地產科技人員,他們可能不願意讓自己的公司在房地產和建築業起步。因為投資者會問他們,如果可以的話,李嘉誠先生也會做類似的事情。你的公司是如何生存的,比如說如果施永青先生也做了類似的事情,你的公司怎麼能生存下來?所以這讓人很沮喪。對於房地產或建築業,香港人,因為我認為,如果你在這個行業工作,在我進入這個行業之前,我想我們也在舒適區,實際上,他們中的大多數人都是雇員,而且他們可能並沒有太多的企業家精神。從這個意義上說,你找不到很多來自房地產和建築業的人離職去創辦他們的公司。所以這也是原因之一。所以這使得房地產科技現在不活躍。但我仍然相信未來幾年形勢會好轉。

Darren Wong: 希望如此。如果你能向所有房地產行業領袖或房地產科技領袖傳達資訊,那會是什麼?

Leo Lo:我想我會建議,我我想說把握是關鍵,比如,把握創新,把握任何新想法,就像我現在在AVM上開發的一樣,正如我提到的,自動評估模型,不知怎麼的,它對傳統的測量員工作帶來挑戰。此外,我們還需要與監管機构合作,與專業機构合作。我認為研究所、監管者是行業的參與者,至少應該採取把握時機的心態。否則,我認為社會無法改善,這是我想建議的。

Darren Wong: 很好。這是一個非常好的訊息。是的,我明白了。機會即將到來。但你必須繼續努力,盡最大努力打造出最好的產品。

Leo Lo:行業的趨勢,就像我提到了的區塊鏈,雖然我們有點高估了它這兩年的影響力,但在未來五到十年內,它肯定會改變或改善這個行業。所以我們需要把握任何創新。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。最後一件事,因為很明顯,我們可以花上好幾個小時。然後我想在將來,如果我再邀請你來到這個節目,我們可以談談現今具體發生的事情。因為房地產科技是一個非常廣泛的行業。然後從硬體到軟件。是的,那裡有很多東西。但我們可以深入瞭解更多細節。所以在這段期間,如果觀眾想瞭解更多關於房地產科技,或者想請求您的服務,他們會如何聯系您?你如何建議他們聯系你並與你進一步交談?

Leo Lo:好的。歡迎你訪問我的網頁,。你可以找到我的聯繫方式。而且,當然,你可以在LinkedIn上蒐索我的名字,Leo Lo,你一定會找到我的。隨時給我發短信,給我留言。我會給你回電的。

Darren Wong: 是的,我已經把所有的東西都記在節目簡介上了。我想感謝你能抽出時間來這裡。我真的認為我們還處於整個行業的起步階段,我等不及從現在開始的五年裏,會有很多改變和發展。然後我們顯然也是這個行業的一部分,我們開始了整個過程。是的,當然。讓我們看看進展如何。謝謝你的時間。我真的很感謝你的再次光臨。

Leo Lo :非常感謝您。

Darren Wong: 謝謝。祝你有好的一天。再見

Market Updates 未分類

Building online marketing engines for real estate experts

“Technology cannot replace core work in real estate” is a dogma that has circulated the industry for far too long. The reality is this: many real estate experts are quickly shifting their focus to online platforms – a better & faster way to capture leads like never before

Little do they know, however, that attracting online prospects is no simple task

Traditionally real estate professionals have relied heavily on finding prospects offline – such as attending networking events to setting up exhibitions. Unfortunately, the online world is a whole different game: SEO optimization, brandingcopywriting… Build an effective online presence costs a lot of energy & effort!

3 things to keep in mind when building an online marketing engine

1️⃣ Showcase useful insights first before directing prospects to sales. Need inspiration? Check ➡️

2️⃣ Always track the performance & learn how to improve

3️⃣ Building an online engine takes time, effort, & investment in campaign creation & tech solutions. Be patient and it will pay off

We are pre-launching Denzity Campaign Portal to help real estate agencies, professionals & educators that seek to bolster their online presence & our technical expertise

Count-down the next 2 weeks for more details & stay tuned. 

Market Updates 未分類

Why real estate professionals need to take video marketing seriously

We at Denzity have invited #realestateexperts to share their expertise on our platform – hoping to draw the attention of the online world – and producing content on a variety of #realestate topics.

The turnout has been amazing!

As of today, we have published more than 50 videos with more than 25 guests! Most fascinating is having guests receive more engagements and direct messages – as soon as their videos publish. It’s great to see that people are able to connect through this medium!

Here’s What We Learned 🔎

▶️ Video content is a powerful medium to boost investors’ interest.
▶️ Real estate professionals are full of insights but they don’t know how to showcase themselves in the online world!
▶️ Real estate companies realize they need to rely on a better online presence to attract leads.

Remaining competitive in this rapidly growing digital landscape takes tremendous preparation and effort. But, with the right guidance and tailored solutions, real estate companies can strive and unlock their full potential like never before.

Our team has been working on something that will be launched in a few weeks’ time. We will tell you more about it soon 😉

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: Japan Residential & Hotels [Expert’s Advice] with Perry Tan

Japan Residential & Hotels [Expert’s Advice] with Perry Tan

In this episode, we take a look at Japanese hospitality real estate and why they may be of interest to investors. Japan is known worldwide as a top tourist destination, and as such it has a booming hospitality industry with offerings ranging from chain-hotels to small room Airbnbs. Today we have Perry Tan to discuss the ins-and-outs of investing in this large market, and how it can appeal to any investor.

Key Discussions

▶  Japanese Residential Market [Expert updates]

▶  Mitigating Risk

▶ Operating A Small Residential Building

▶ Connect with Perry

Description Block 3 – Links & Support

Carry interest: Also called a “promote,” carried interest has been a fundamental part of real estate investment partnerships for decades. Managing partners receive a carried interest, or a share of profits once an asset is sold, in recognition of both the value they bring to the venture and the risks they take. 

Free cash optionality : The quality of being available to be chosen but not obligatory. 

Hospitality assets: Hospitality Property means a full service or limited service hotel or resort, a condominium or timeshare hotel or resort, an extended stay property, or a conference center, and other facilities incidental to, or in support of such property 

Cost of borrowing: The concept of a loan is pretty straightforward: first you borrow money, and then you repay it. But the amount that you must repay is more than the amount you borrow. This is due to interest and fees, which is what a lender charges you for the use of its money 

Yield/Rental sensitive: In finance, sensitivity is the magnitude of a market instrument’s reaction to changes in underlying factors, most often in terms of its price response to other factors. 

Upward risk: Upside risk measures the extent to which the value of a stock or other investment might go up beyond expected levels. 

Capital appreciation: Capital appreciation is a rise in an investment’s market price. Capital appreciation is the difference between the purchase price and the selling price of an investment.,earned%20%242%20in%20capital%20appreciation

Urbanization: Urbanization, the process by which large numbers of people become permanently concentrated in relatively small areas, forming cities. 

Service apartment: Officially, ‘Serviced Apartment’ is the umbrella term for a type of furnished apartment available for short-term or long-term stays, which provides amenities, housekeeping and a range of services for guests and where most taxes and utilities are included within the rental price. 

Investor Relationship: The investor relations (IR) department is a division of a business, usually a public company, whose job it is to provide investors with an accurate account of company affairs. 

First Cabin: First Cabin is a chain offering compact capsule-style rooms.,a%20drawer%20under%20the%20bed

Earthquake regulation (Japan): The Building Standards Law was amended in 1981 to introduce new standards for designing buildings for earthquake resistance. This amendment was introduced as a result of the devastating 1978 quake that struck Miyagi. 

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

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No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript [English & Chinese]

Darren Wong: Hey, Perry. Welcome to the show.

Perry Tam: Hey, how’s it going?

Darren Wong: Very good, very good. So you know, it’s exciting because I’ve known for two and a half, three years through our mutual friend, Geoff. And then, Japan real estate market is something that a lot of people in Hong Kong, obviously interested. And then your backgrounds are unique because not only that residential, you do hospitality, Airbnb and other real estate type, too. So it’s good to pick your brain today. And just start with, would you mind telling the audience, your background and what you do?

Perry Tam: Yeah, sure. So at the moment, I am at Pegasus Capital, and we invest in Japanese real estate. Prior to that, well, I graduated the University of Chicago, and then basically had a finance track by working in investment banking, and also at a fundamental hedge funds, based in Hong Kong. And from there was a lot of bottom up analysis, looking at balance sheets, meeting management and understanding the investment thesis or what not. And it was around 2016,  that I moved back to my family office. And from there, I continued to make investments in the public market, in the debt space, so on and so forth. And one of  the things that I noticed, or what to find attractive about Japan is that if you buy an asset, and you can get leverage on it, you can actually ride a big carry, what I mean by that is that the returns are much higher than the cost of borrowing. And in finance term, I guess we can call this free cash optionality. And therefore, we just first purchased a building in Tokyo, a residential building. And then from there, we got some bank financing. And the idea is not that noble at the beginning, it was basically to generate free cash flow based on the investments and then maybe use it to buy stocks or whatnot. But one thing led to another, I suppose, and Japan, we’ve come to learn, it’s really, really attractive for an investor, and that rode on and continue to grow. And then now we are managing a fund with both my investor capital, and also LP capital, and we invest in what we have been looking into hospitality assets recently.

Darren Wong: I see, that’s good, because, obviously, I think Japan real estate market has been very attractive since five, six years ago. So would you mind telling the audience what’s going on in the residential market in Japan? And then how’d you get involved? And what is your view of the current stage at the moment?

Perry Tam: Sure, let me take a step back and  highlight what I think is exciting about Japan. Number one is the cost of borrowing is really cheap. So let’s say if the rental returns are 4%, 5%, 6%, the cost of borrowing is only around 1%. So if you can get a decent LTV, then it’s basically free cash. Secondly, the structural directory of Japan, I think, in general, residential has been strong for the last many number of years, hotels until recently is very strong. And obviously you also have the more mainstream asset classes like logistics or office, which are also pretty strong. And one important thing about Japan aside from the low cost of financing is that you get freehold ownership, which means that it protects investors, even for foreign investors. And because Japan as a market is very yield sensitive or rental sensitive. The fact that there is rent toward upward risk of  pressure, it means that the capital appreciation potential is high. So your questions are what residential? Is that right?

Darren Wong: That’s correct.

Perry Tam: Okay, specifically for residential, we own  a property in Tokyo at the moment. One in Shibuya-ku, near Harajuku. And the other one in the Tsukiji area. And Tokyo, surprisingly, has had population increase for the last 30 years. So Japan’s undergoing a really strong urbanisation trend, which means that if you are from the ] village, and you grow up there, the next thing you want to do is probably to work at a Tokyo, work at Nagoya, work at Osaka. These are  places which have experienced population increase over time. And that also explains why in Tokyo, the rooms are so small because it’s so crowded and packed. And because of this shortage of rooms available, it actually has a really high occupancy in Tokyo. And also rent has been increasing. I mean, that includes the assets and the properties that we hope to.

Darren Wong: I see. So how’s the experience from the standard market? And then make it considered hospitality, which is the journey behind that. And what’s your current view on the hospitality market as well at the moment?

Perry Tam: Sure. I think when we first purchase residential, it was more about testing the market with more central locations like Roppongi and maybe in Harajuku. So it was all about location, location, location, and we managed to buy an entire building in Harajuku and we got around a 50 to 60%  LTV at 1% cost of financing which is pretty low. And from there, we just realised that we can enhance the rental return. By back then we were doing Airbnb for some of the apartments and Airbnb is a tourist trend and, and all that. And in 2018, there was more regulation for Airbnb, but you can still operate, we can still rent out these apartments as a  service apartment. So they call it monthly mansions in Japan. So in the case of Japan, any rental which is 30 days or more is not considered a hospitality or hotel accommodation. Likewise, in the case of Hong Kong, that break off point is 28. So what that means is if the normal rents is around, let’s say $100, for simplicity, using round numbers, then you can probably rent it out to the business traveller or somebody that wants to rent the place at around $160 to $200. So that is the markup. And that is the enhancement that you could achieve by operating as an Airbnb or service apartment. So how did they get into hotels? I think while because I’m a public market and hedge fund background before, we managed to talk to  a lot of IRs (investment relationships) or CFOs, and all that from listed charities, so also from budding hotel operators that want to go into Japan, one of which was Ctrip. And we were actually the first tenant, sorry, the owner of one of the hotels that Ctrip was operating in Japan, the subsidiary. And because of that they were able to offer above market rental returns, because they had cost efficiency in operations. And nationally, because of that we invested in a couple of hotels in Osaka, and they were intended. So one thing led to another there.

Darren Wong: I see. And then obviously, we cannot deny the fact that it is another COVID-19 impact. There are a lot of these international things happening, the Rugby World Cup, another big game, and then the potential gambling license, that one (topic) I’ll talk to you more about that. So how has the government helped infrastructure and your view on those events? How much has it helped it? And then do you think that the effect will prolong years even after those events?

Perry Tam: Yeah, I think really depends on the view of everybody about cause is it going to be a five year thing, a 10 year thing or two year thing. I mean, my personal view is COVID is a negative event that affects all industries and most industries. But that said, you still have to look at the mid term to long term outlook of any country or anything that you invest in. So I think, you know, they had just now right, I mean, Japan has a lot of the positive drivers for investment and also for tourism. I talked about two already, which is the low cost of funding, and the ownership of freehold ownership. That’s the two that talked about. And the other things that you talked about is the Rugby World Cup and the Olympics. I mean, with or without the Olympics, with or without the Rugby World Cup, I think it’s fair to say that the Japan government has put in a lot of capital to improve the infrastructure of the country in general. So let’s say should we in Tokyo, you’re seeing a complete redevelopment in places like Yokohama or Osaka, you see a lot of capex to renovate or rejuvenate the city and whatnot. And therefore, even you know, for local places is much better or more attractive than it used to be. And for the Olympics, sorry for the casinos, I think they are talks about Osaka, Yokohama and whatnot. I think that’s gonna be a slightly longer term story. But the story is still intact. What I mean by that is, the government’s going to spend capital there, and the government is going to attract casino operators to come in. And one thing you missed this also the Expo that’s happening in Japan in Osaka. So that’s in between the casinos and after the Olympics. So you have all these drivers in Japan, I mean, where the government’s willing to spend. And if you talk about guests or tourists that are willing to come and travel, I mean, naturally, they’ll do the Thailand, so do the Koreas and whatnot. But then the interest is really firmly in Japan. And there’s so much truth for Japan aside from Tokyo, Osaka, maybe Kyoto, they are quite significant, too.

Darren Wong: Really? Okay. Because there’s something that I felt like Japan have to get ready for a lot of things happening, which comes to something that I always want to ask you even as a friend, is that before the show to talk a little  bit about the hospitality market in Japan, a lot of people want to be part of that. And then how do you suggest them to be an operator or an investor and sometimes what kinds of difficulty is that as the operator and investor that people don’t know about? And then lastly of this whole three part question is that, beside COVID-19 impacts, is it worth investing or being operator in the space?

Perry Tam: Sure. I think the competition has increased over the last couple of years. I mean, if investors or your friends came into Japan and made investments, like five years, six years or seven years ago, then it’s going to be much easier to outperform. But because you’re basically riding the upward wave, right? But nowadays, even without COVID, you can get in more competition,  and you get in more upstarts, right? And the general theme that I see for failures, if I may, are hotels or operating businesses that are undifferentiated in poor locations, and with rooms that are built for the ordinary businessman. There’s zero lack of the zero differentiation. And when, let’s say there’s more competition in the market, these guys are the ones that we’ve wiped out. And we actually see that recently, there’s a hotel operator called WBF that went bankrupt recently. And on the papers is also a brand called First Cabin, who are hostels that do capsule hotels. So naturally, in this case, there is a lack of differentiation and they don’t have a product offering. For the hotels that we are operating or invested in, it’s more differentiated either on the cost side or the design side. On the cost side, for example, we are operating a hotel in Kyoto at the moment, and even at a 20% occupancy, we are profitable, so means that in COVID environment, we have profitable. And the rooms that we have are around  17 to 20 square metres. So that means that is much larger than the average business hotel. So most hotels in Japan are actually really small shoe box for the ordinary person that’s going to travelling between cities to work, that no longer really works. And investing in  those assets are going to be problematic. Lastly, about who to work with or whether to start your own hotel operating company, operating business is a lot of time. So you probably have to be on the ground, or you have to have the right people in the ground, if not I don’t think it’s worth doing. Rather, I think it makes more sense to work with an operator with some sort of track record, or, at the very least some business sense and design in management and also strong with numbers, I think, a lot of operators that I’ve talked to, to my investment and due diligence to only have one, but not all three. And that’s why they fail.

Darren Wong: I see. It sounds like you need a superman to be part of the hotel operator, because it’s something that’s, even myself, I think, with my background before as an asset manager, but I try to manage two hotels, and that is a lot of work. I don’t know how to do it. And obviously we talked about COVID a couple times, that’s something that I want to ask you because that sounds really good, you’re doing everything really well. So during the COVID-19, how the government is helping you guys and then how yourself mitigate the risk during a time like this?

Perry Tam: Sure. So at the moment, we have Airbnb and also hotels and service apartments. And I guess the government has been supportive in terms of having subsidies. You know this better than me, but I think it’s similar to that of Southeast Asia or maybe in the US. So some of these we have a work from home subsidies, IT and telecommunication, tele-working subsidies, and also a COVID loan, a zero interest loan, and they’re going to take it a step further, you can probably borrow around 50 to 80 million of low interest or principal only repayment loans. So the banks have been quite easy, or they have been relaxing their requirements. And so therefore, you can cover staff costs, you can cover equipment costs, and you also can borrow money from the government, or related banks at a very low cost. So that’s why you don’t see that many bankruptcies, I mean, you do in Japan, you do see bankruptcies but it’s not at the level of the US or maybe Europe.

Darren Wong: I see. So, going back to a little bit on Airbnb side, I’m just wondering, because a lot of people like smaller investors are going to consider Airbnb or even smaller one who have a consortium of assets for that, how would you feel about the Airbnb future in Japan? And then what do you think the outlook of it?

Perry Tam: Sure, I think if for small investors, I think there are two ways to look at it and I suggest these two schemes. Number one is to buy a residential building, but make sure that it’s in the right location with the right zoning. And  if that checks all the boxes, it can be actually operated as an airbnb 365 days, or it could be converted into a simple lodging, which effectively is a hotel. Under that scenario, it could be leased out to an operator, or the operator can give you, let’s say, pay a rental which is at or slightly below market, but with the upside option to it. I think that’s the best way to work on, to improve the yield or to improve the investment return for a small, ordinary investor. The second way to do it is to do, let’s say there’s a burden of eight floors, maybe the first floor to the third floor, you do a service apartment or airbnb. By service apartment, I mean, subleasing for 30 days. And then put a top floors, you have the fixed reliable income that you’re renting out to the ordinary Japanese family or salaried person, then that way you have diversification of income and also upside, if the service apartment operator or the Airbnb operator generates extra alpha.

Darren Wong: [00:16:22] I see. So I think you cover a lot of detail that I wasn’t expecting to because it’s just things that no one realises that you have to understand the asset, how you work, the location wise, and then even, like residential building can be worked with different type of asset class if you don’t understand what’s going on. So even when the communication with you I know you know your stuff really well for that reason. For the audience that might want to participate in Japan real estate sector, how would you suggest them to participate, for small investors and large investors? And then one thing I was curious is that a lot of people will think that it’s a bit too late to get into the game at the moment, because Japan before was a huge boom, and then things are still going well, in long term, do you think there’s still potential or is it too late to you?

Perry Tam: I think I’ll answer the first part first. For small investors, I think if they’re buying units or apartments themselves, and they should look at core central locations, don’t just chase yield in the middle of nowhere, because as I said earlier, Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya those places, population has been increasing over the years. So the safe bet is probably going to be in Tokyo. And it’s going to be in the main five wards, which is Chuoward, shipway ward, Shinjuku ward, Minato ward, so on and so forth. Focus on those locations. And don’t buy assets that are older than 1983 because of earthquake regulation, and make sure that you buy freehold land, and freehold property, I should say. And from there, basically, you have two strategies: rented out long term to somebody or you can enhance that return by talking to, let’s say, a hotel operator, service apartment operator or an Airbnb operator, which of course I know people that are doing that. That’s one way to do it. For big guys, I think that, depending on how big, I mean, I think looking at residential, offices,  hotels, I think it’s the same story there. I think those are all attractive assets, if you have a lot of capital and maybe logistics. But I’ll probably stay away from retail at the moment. And it’s a similar story in the US whereby you have to the Amazon risk or the e-commerce risk. And, secondly, the valuations are not that cheap. The second part of your question is what?

Darren Wong: Do you think it’s too late when we have to go in or there’s still a lot potential for the markets?

Perry Tam: I think there’s a lot of potential. I think one important point to highlight in Japan is that most of the capital flow in terms of property transactions are driven by local corporates, and also by pension funds and charities. And they account for around close to 60% of all transactions in Japan. So as a small investor, or a high net worth investor, you don’t really move the needle, because these are the big guys that are buying for stable cash flow reasons or for tax reduction purposes. Therefore, there’s always a pocket to look at in Japan. And they go for us, at least at Pegasus, to sell to one of these guys have to do the value adding. For investors that are looking at Japan early on, then I think it’s important for them to understand that the person that you sold to is probably a Japanese person, not an international investor. And secondly, You also have to consider the Japanese low cost of funding, that’s going to continue for a long time.

Darren Wong: I see, that’s good. I only have one more question. Because there’s something I’m just curious. What are some projects you’re working on and the opportunity you’re looking at the moment?

Perry Tam: Sure, I think, in real estate investment, you can break down your risk and appetite into several buckets, you’ve got the opportunistic bucket, obviously, and then you have the value add, then you have core plus, which is just normal rental, a bit of tweaks, and then you have core investors, that’s just what stable income. In a COVID environment, I think it’s important for us to, if we’re deploying capital in a risky environment, then we should be more opportunistic, very naturally. And in this market, the most opportunistic assets, I think, are going to be hospitality related assets. And that’s what we’ve seen the biggest discounts. At the moment, we are looking at projects, which are probably gonna be discounted by 40, maybe 50%. By sellers across the board, it could be a fund that has reached maturity, it could be a developer that has borrowed too much money, or they need to release capital for the next project, and so on and so forth, guys like that we talked to at the moment. And we believe that buying at around 30, to maybe 50% discount to what it used to be, it’s going to be very attractive, considering what I just said about the future, tourism trend, maybe one year, maybe two years, maybe three years down the line, it’s probably going to recover from what it is now. And if our hotel operating business is still profitable at 20% occupancy, you can assume that if things go back to 50, 60, 70, how much of a margin that we can make, and how much capital gains that we can achieve by buying at this moment right now.

Darren Wong: It’s huge. I mean, 30% holy crap. That’s a huge number. Actually, if you can, you can pull it off. Yeah.

Perry Tam: And I guess I’m talking, I forgot to say, and we are not really looking at in the middle of nowhere, I’m talking about Tokyo, like 100-room hotel in Tokyo, where I’m talking about a 150-room hotel in Kyoto. I’m talking about a development project in the middle of number, right in the middle of Osaka. And these are things that are really exciting and it was something that I had difficulty sourcing or buying like two or three years ago, because nobody is willing to lower their prices until recently.

Darren Wong: I see. But obviously, I think there are so many things that I want to ask. There are so many questions in my head, for example, different asset class, it can be industrial or other property type that you see interesting, or like location, so on. But we will wait for the next time then. And then for people who want to reach out to you and talk to you more about Japanese hotel, Airbnb residential, how would you suggest them to find out you and talk to you more further?

Perry Tam: Yeah, I think they can send me email at

Darren Wong: Okay, cool. Well, obviously, I will include everything in the show notes. And then I want to say thank you for your time because  it’s something for myself, I am always being so curious, now a lot of people in Hong Kong or other places will be also appreciate your insight and sharing as well.

Perry Tam:  No, my pleasure, my pleasure. I hope you’re doing well, by the way.

Darren Wong: Hopefully, we’ll see. But thanks for time and see you next time. Thank you.

Perry Tam: Okay. Take care.

Darren Wong: Bye bye.

Darren Wong: 嘿,Perry。歡迎你來到本集節目。

Perry Tam :嘿,你最近怎樣?

Darren Wong: 非常好,非常好。你知道的,這實在令人興奮,因為我們已經認識了兩年半、三年了,通過我們共同的朋友,Geoff。然後顯然日本房地產是一個很多香港人都很感興趣的市場。而且你的背景很獨特,因為不僅是住宅區,你的工作也包含飯店、Airbnb和其他房地產類型等。所以今天我們有很多東西可以跟你討論。首先,你能告訴聽眾你的背景和你的工作嗎?

Perry Tam :是的,當然。所以目前,我在Pegasus Capital工作,我們投資日本的房地產。在此之前,我畢業於芝加哥大學,然後開始在投資銀行和一家總部設在香港的基礎對沖基金工作,基本上建立了金融方面的工作經驗。在那裡我處理很多非常全面的分析,查看資產負債表,會見管理層,瞭解投資主題或其他相關的工作。大約在2016年,我回到了我的家族理財辦公室工作。在那之後,我繼續在市場上投資,投資債券等等。然後其中一件我注意到的事情是,或者說,日本的吸引力在於,如果你購買了一項資產,並且你可以從中獲得貸款融資,你就可以得到很高的回報。事實上,我的意思是,直到回報率遠高於借貸成本。從財務角度來說,我想我們可以稱之為免費現金選擇。因此,我們在東京購買了一棟住宅樓。然後從那裡,我們得到了一些銀行融資。一開始的想法並不那麼成熟,它基本上是通過投資產生自由現金流,然後可能用來購買股票或其他什麼。但經過一段時間後,我假設在日本,我們逐漸瞭解到,它對投資者來說確實非常有吸引力,而且還在繼續增長。現在我們和我的投資者一起管理一個基金資本和有限合夥資本,我們最近一直在研究及投資的飯店資產。

Darren Wong: 我明白了,這很好,因為,很明顯,我認為日本房地產市場從五、六年前就已經非常吸引人了。你介意告訴觀眾日本住宅市場上的狀況嗎?那你是怎麼開始參與住宅市場的?你對現階段的市場狀況有什麼看法?

Perry Tam: 當然,讓我退一步,突出我認為日本令人興奮的地方。第一,借貸成本真的很便宜。假設租金回報率是4%,5%,6%,那麼借款成本只有1%左右。所以如果你能得到一個理想的貸款價值比,那基本上就是免費現金。第二,日本的發展結構,我認為,總體而言,在過去的許多年裏,住宅市場一直很强大,直到最近,酒店市場都非常强大。顯然,你還有更為主流的資產類別,如物流或辦公,它們也相當强大。還有一件關於日本的重要事情除了融資成本低之外,你還可以獲得自由所有權,這意味著它可以保護投資者,甚至是外國投資者。因為由於日本市場對收益率或租金非常敏感。事實上有租金向上的風險壓力,說明資本增值潛力較大。你的問題是關於住宅市場?對嗎?

Darren Wong: 沒錯。

Perry Tam: 好的,特別是住宅,我們擁有東京的一處房產。其中一個在Harajuku附近的Shibuya-ku。另一個在Tsukiji地區。還有東京,令人驚訝的是,在過去的30年裏,人口一直在增長。所以日本正在經歷一個非常快速的城市化趨勢,這意味著如果你來自村莊,你在那裡長大,下一步你想做的事情可能是在東京工作,在名古屋工作,在大阪工作。這些是人口隨時間增長最顯著的地方。這也解釋了為什麼在東京,房間這麼小,因為它是如此擁擠和擁擠。因為缺乏空置的住宅,東京的入住率非常高。而且房租也一直在上漲。而這包括我們希望得到的資產和財產。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼你在標準市場有什麼經驗呢?然後當你處理酒店業的時候,你現時對飯店市場的看法也是如此?

Perry Tam :當然。我認為,當我們第一次購買住宅時,主要目的的是用戶來測試像六本木和原宿這些中央地方的市場。所以一切都是關於市場的位置,位置,和位置,我們設法在原宿買了一整棟樓,我們得到了大約50%到60%的回報貸款價值比為融資成本的1%,這是相當低的。從我們剛剛意識到我們可以提高租金回報率。那時我們正在為一些公寓做Airbnb,那時Airbnb是一種旅遊趨勢。到了2018年,對Airbnb有了更多的規定,但你仍然可以經營,我們仍然可以將這些公寓作為服務式公寓。所以在日本他們稱之為月宅。因此,在日本,任何30天或30天以上的租金不被視為招待或酒店住宿。同樣,就香港而言,這個點是28。所以這意味著如果正常的租金是,為了簡單起見,假設100美元左右,使用整數,那麼您可以將其出租給商務旅行者或想租房子的人在160到200美元之間。這就是標記。這就是你可以通過Airbnb或服務來實現的增强的公寓。那麼他們是怎麼進飯店的?我想,因為我以前是一個公開市場和對沖基金的背景,所以我們設法與很多國稅局或首席財務官聯繫,所有這些都來自上市慈善機構,還有那些希望進入日本的新興飯店運營商,其中之一就是Ctrip。以及我們實際上是第一個承租人,對不起,Sea Trip在日本經營的一家飯店的所有者,即子公司。以及因為他們能够提供高於市場的租金回報,因為他們的運營具有成本效益。我們在全國投資了幾家飯店,特別是在大阪。所以這一切都是經過我們的仔細安排的。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。顯然,我們不能否認這是另一個冠狀病毒的影響。有很多這樣的國際賽事正在發生,橄欖球世界盃,另一場大型比賽,還有潜在的賭博許可證,我會和你們詳細談談。那麼,政府如何幫助基礎設施建設以及您對這些事件的看法?有多大幫助?那麼,你認為這種影響會持續數年嗎?

Perry Tam :是的,我認為真正取決於每個人對於這件事情的看法,是五年的事,還是十年的事,還是兩年的事。我是說,我個人的看法是冠狀病毒是影響所有行業和大多數行業的負面事件。但也就是說,你還是要看中長期的前景任何國家或你投資的任何東西。所以我想,你們知道,他們剛剛有,我的意思是,日本有很多正面的因素推動投資和旅遊業。我已經談到了所有權的低成本。這就是我們談論的兩個。還有其他的事情例如我們剛談論的奧運會和橄欖球世界盃。我的意思是,不管有沒有奧運會,有沒有橄欖球世界盃,我認為公平地說,日本政府在投入大量資金改善國家的基礎設施。如果我們在東京,你會看到一個完整的發展,在橫濱或大阪這樣的地方進行再開發,你會看到很多資本金被用以翻新或振興都市等等。以及因此,即使你知道,因為當地的地方比過去更好或更具吸引力。為了奧運會,而關於賭場,我想他們在談論大阪、橫濱等等。我想這會是一個稍微長一點的故事。但賭場的發展機會依然存在。我的意思是,政府要在那裡投資,政府要吸引賭場經營者進來。還有一件你忘記了的事,是這次日本大阪世博會。所以那是在發展賭場和之後的奧運會之間。所以你在日本有這麼多發展推動力,我是說,政府願意花錢的地方。如果你談到願意來的客人或遊客旅行,我的意思是,自然,他們會去泰國,韓國和其他什麼的。但是旅客對日本的興趣一直都很高,而除了東京之外,大阪,也許京都,它們也很重要。

Darren Wong: 真的嗎?可以。因為我覺得日本必須為很多事情做好準備,這就是我作為朋友也一直想問你的一件事,也就是在節目開始前要說的,關於日本的飯店市場,很多人都想參與其中。那麼你如何建議他們成為一個運營商或投資者,有時又會有怎樣的困難,特別是人們並不知道的,作為經營者和投資者的困難?最後一個部分的問題是,除了冠狀病毒的影響,還是否值得在該領域投資或成為運營商?

Perry Tam :當然。我認為競爭在過去幾年。我是說,如果投資者或你的朋友來日本投資,比如五年、六年或七年以前,那麼要在競爭中獲勝就很容易了。但因為你的資產基本上是在上升,對吧?但是現在,即使沒有冠狀病毒,你也可以,你會有更多的競爭,對吧?如果可以的話,我認為失敗的主要原因是飯店或經營企業,在貧困地區沒有區別,房間是為普通商人建造的。缺乏了零分化。當市場競爭加劇時,這些人就是我們要消滅的。我們真的看到了最近,有一家名為WBF的飯店運營商最近破產了。報紙上還有一個叫First Cabin的企業,他們是做膠囊旅舘的旅舘。所以很自然,在這種情況下,他們缺乏特色,也沒有產品供應。對於那些我們正在運營或投資,無論是在成本方面還是在設計方面都有更大的特色。例如,在成本方面,我們現時在京都經營一家飯店,即使入住率為20%,我們也是有獲利的,這意味著在冠狀病毒的環境影響下,我們也可以盈利。我們的房間就在附近17到20平方米。這意味著它比一般的商務飯店要大得多。所以日本的大多數飯店其實都很小,像為普通人準備的鞋盒,現在已經不起作用了。投資於這些資產會有問題。最後,關於與誰合作或是否成立自己的飯店運營公司,經營業務是一個很長的時間。所以你可能必須在當地上,或者你必須在當地有合適的人,否則我認為這不值得。更確切地說,我認為與有運作經驗的夥伴一起工作更有意義,或者至少在管理方面有一定的商業頭腦和設計,我想,我見過很多運營商對於我的投資和盡職調查,只有一個,但不是全部三個。這就是他們失敗的原因。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。聽起來你需要一個超人加入飯店營運團隊,因為這是一件事,甚至我自己,我想,有我以前的資產管理背景,但我試圖管理兩家飯店,這是一項大量的工作。我不知道怎麼做。很明顯,我們談了幾次有關冠狀病毒的影響,這是我想問你的,因為這聽起來很好,你做的一切都很好。所以在]冠狀病毒的影響下,政府是如何幫助你們的,以及在這樣一個時期你是如何減輕風險的?

Perry Tam :當然。所以現在,我們Airbnb以及飯店和服務公寓。我想政府在補貼方面一直很支持。你比我更瞭解這一點,但我認為這與東南亞或美國的情况類似。所以我們有一些在家工作的補貼,是嗎以及電信、遠程工作補貼,以及COVID貸款,零利率貸款,他們會更進一步,你大概可以借到5000萬到8000萬的低利率僅限利息或本金的償還貸款。所以銀行一直很寬鬆,或者他們已經放寬了他們的要求。因此,你可以支付員工成本、設備成本,還可以從政府或相關銀行以非常低的成本借款。這就是為什麼你看不到那麼多的破產案,我是說,你在日本有,你確實看到過破產案,但並沒有美國或者歐洲的數字。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。回到Airbnb這個話題,因為很多人,例如小規模的投資者,都想考慮一下Airbnb或更小的公司,他們擁有一個資產聯盟,您對Airbnb在日本的未來有何看法?你覺得前景如何?

Perry Tam: 當然,我認為對於小規模投資者,我認為有兩種方法可以考慮,我建議這兩種方案。第一件事是買一棟住宅樓,但要確保它的位置和分區都是正確的。以及如果檢查了所有的條件,它實際上可以365天都作為airbnb 運行,或者可以轉換為一個簡單的住宿,即實際上是一家飯店。在這種情況下,它可以出租給運營商,或者運營商可以給你,比如說,支付處於或略低於市場水准的租金,但有上行選擇。我認為這是最好的方法提高收益率或提高小型普通投資者的投資回報率。第二種方法是做,比方說這裡有八層樓,可能從一樓到三樓,你做的是服務式公寓或airbnb。我指的是服務公寓,轉租30天。再加上頂層的單位,你就有了固定可靠的收入,你就可以出租給普通人、日本家庭或工薪階層,那麼這樣你就有了收入的多樣化,也有了上行空間,如果服務式公寓運營商或Airbnb生成額外的收入。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以我覺得你講了很多我沒想到的細節,因為這只是一些沒人能想到的事情意識到,你必須瞭解資產,你如何工作,位置,然後,甚至,像住宅樓宇,可以使用不同類型的資產類別,如果你不瞭解發生了什麼。所以即使和你交流的時候,我知道你對自己的東西非常瞭解。對於希望參與日本房地產行業的觀眾,對於小投資者和大投資者,您如何建議他們參與?我很好奇很多人會認為現在進入市場有點晚了,因為日本市場以前是十分繁榮,然後事情仍然很順利,從長遠來看,你認為市場仍然擁有潜力還是太遲了?

Perry Tam: 我想我先回答第一部分。對於小規模投資者,我認為如果他們購買單位或公寓本身,他們應該關注中心位置,而不是僅僅在偏僻的地方追求收益,因為正如我前面所說,東京、大阪、名古屋這些地方,人口逐年增加。所以安全的賭注可能在東京。而且可以專注在在五個主要的區域,分別是Chuo區、Shibuya區、Shinjuku區、 Minato區等等。集中在那些地方。要購買1983年以前的資產,因為地震法規的原因,並且確保你購買了,我想說的是,永久擁有的土地和房產。從這裡,基本上,你有兩個策略:長期租給別人或你可以通過與飯店運營商、服務公寓運營商或Airbnb運營商(我當然認識這樣的人)交談來提高回報。那是一種方法。對於大型的投資,我認為,取決於多大,我的意思是,我想看看住宅,辦公室,飯店,我想也是這樣。我認為這些都是有吸引力的資產,如果你有大量的資金和物流。但我現在可能會遠離零售業。在美國也有類似的情况,你要承擔亞馬遜風險或電子商務風險。其次,估值也不那麼便宜。你問題的第二部分是什麼?

Darren Wong:你認為我們必須進入的時候已經太遲了還是市場還有很大的潜力?

Perry Tam :我認為有巨大的潜力。我認為在日本需要強調的一點是,在房地產交易方面,大部分資本流動都是由當地企業推動的,還有養老基金和慈善機構。占日本全部交易的60%左右。所以作為一個小投資者,或者是高淨值投資者,你不會真的動用很多資金的,因為這些大公司是為了穩定的現金流或減稅目的。因此,在日本總有投資的機會可以考慮。他們會來找我們,至少在Pegasus,要賣給這些人中的一個,就必須新增價值。對於關注日本的投資者來說那麼,我認為,讓他們明白,你賣給的人可能是日本人,而不是國際投資者,這一點很重要。以及其次,你還必須考慮到日本的低融資成本,這將持續很長一段時間。

Darren Wong: 我明白了,這很好。我還有一個問題。因為有些事我只是好奇。你在做什麼項目?你目前正在尋找怎樣的機會?

Perry Tam :當然,我想,在房地產投資方面,你可以把你的風險和目標分成幾個部分,很明顯,你有機會投資,然後你就有了增值,然後你就有了收益,這就是只要正常的租金,稍微調整一下,然後你就有了核心投資者,這就是穩定的收入。在冠狀病毒的環境下,我認為我們應該,如果我們在高風險環境中投入資本,那麼我們自然應該更加把握機會。在這個市場上,我認為最能把握機會的資產,將成為飯店相關資產。這就是我們看到的最大折扣。現時,我們正在研究的項目打40折,或者50%。可能是一個開發商借的,可能已經借了太多錢了,或者他們需要為下一個項目釋放資金,等等,諸如此類的傢伙,我們現在談過了。我們相信考慮到我剛才所說的未來,以30%左右的價格購買,可能會比以前有50%的折扣,這將是非常有吸引力的,旅遊業的趨勢,也許一年,也許兩年,也許三年以後,它可能會從現在的狀況中恢復過來。如果我們的飯店運營業務在入住率為20%的情况下仍然盈利,你可以假設,如果情况回到50、60、70%,那麼我們現在可以通過購買來獲得多少資本收益。

Darren Wong: 這太大了。我是說,30%的天啊。這是一個巨大的數位。事實上,如果你能做到的話,你可以做到。是啊。

Perry Tam :我想我在說的是,我忘了說,我們並不是在看偏僻的地方,我說的是東京,比如說東京的100個房間的飯店,我說的是京都的一個有150個房間的飯店。我說的是一個開發專案在中間,正好在大阪的中間。這些都是非常令人興奮的事情,這是我在採購上遇到的困難,像兩三年前一樣,因為直到最近才有人願意降價。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。但顯然,我想我有很多事情想問。我腦子裏有很多問題,比如,不同的資產類別,可以是工業的,也可以是其他的您看到的有趣的或類似位置的產業類型,等等。但我們將等待下一次。還有那些想和你接觸更多,討論關於日式飯店,Airbnb 住宅的人,您會如何建議他們找到您並與您進一步交談?

Perry Tam: 是的,我想他們可以給我發電子郵件到

Darren Wong:好的,酷。嗯,顯然我會把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記裏。然後我想說謝謝你抽出時間,因為這對我也很有幫助,我一直很好奇,現在香港或其他地方的很多人也會很欣賞你的見識和分享。

Perry Tam :不,這是我的榮幸,我的榮幸。我也希望你最近過得不錯。

Darren Wong: 希望我們能再見到你。謝謝你的時間,下次見。謝謝您。

Perry Tam :好的。保重。Darren Wong: 再見。

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: The Future of Real Estate Is Digital with Justin Lau

The Future of Real Estate Is Digital with Justin Lau

This episode, we explore more on the tech side of the property market, which is widely known as PropTech across the industry. Just like any other sector, the real estate industry is also digitizing every day, however, the adoption has been rather slow in the Asian market. Today our guest Justin Lau will talk about why he created Property Raptor to help speed things along.

Key Discussions

▶  Real estate focused CRM

▶ Challenge of real estate digitization

▶ Property Raptor vision

▶ Connect with Justin:


▶ Source & Supporting:

 CRM system: CRM or customer relation management system is a tool, usually used by businesses to acquire and handle customers.

PropTech: PropTech is an acronym for the words Property Technology, which has been created due to the vast usage of technology in the property or real estate industry.

SMS: SMS is the abbreviation for short message service, better known as text messages.

Property Raptor:


Marketing automation: Marketing automation is basically the usage of softwares to simplify the work for marketers by saving their time and effort, especially when it comes to repetitive tasks.

Inventory management: It is the whole process of handling and sorting the goods in an inventory of a company or a business.

Lead generation: It is a way of approaching potential customers or audience in order to increase their chances of making the purchase.

SaaS (Software as a service): SaaS is a way in which data the are stored in cloud can be accessed from any device via internet.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of a blockchain technology is designed as such, so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript [English & Chinese]

Darren Wong: So Justin, welcome to the show.

Justin Lau: Thanks Darren for having us.

Darren Wong: Yeah, so it’s really exciting, because I heard a lot about you guys. And what you guys are doing is amazing, empowering the proptech scene in Hong Kong. The product sounds really, really cool. So obviously, it’s really good to have this opportunity with you. So before started, would you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself, and then Property Raptor? 

Justin Lau: [00:00:24] Sure, I started with Property Raptor in about two and a half years ago, in my previous history, I was actually within the finance and banking space. So I was a banker for more than a decade, within the capital markets, talking to clients about selling shares, and advise them on what to buy and sell, and then subsequently moved into the private equity space, and did a lot of work in the technology area, or private equity. You know, it was actually two and a half years ago, where the idea of Property Raptor came about. We’re doing a lot of investing in that area. And we’ve heard from a lot of different agencies and different market  participants that the real estate software space is really underserved, particularly in Asia. And so, in particular, one of my good friends runs an agency in Greater China. And he said, the ultimate reason why he couldn’t expand further was that the software didn’t serve their needs in order to manage a bigger business. So that’s how the idea Property Raptor came about.

Darren Wong: I see. That’s really fascinating, because a lot of people are thinking about, how do you have a better process for a real estate agent to approach? So obviously, would you elaborate more about the origin of Property Raptor, and also a CRM system and why it’s so important to have real estate focused on a CRM system?

Justin Lau: [00:01:43] Everybody knows the Hong Kong is a is a major global city. And the main sector is that drives, are finances and property and retail and so on. But what really lags behind in the city, and in particular, the property space, not just in Hong Kong, but everywhere in the property space is digital transformation. But the digitalization of the sector has been very, very slow. In fact, it’s probably the second least digital sector in the world after agriculture, which is unbelievable, given how big the sector is globally and everywhere. So, as we discovered that more and more agencies were telling us, we don’t have the software that serves our needs, and we have multiple systems and did not connect properly, we decided that building a system of software that can cater at the enterprise level for agencies and agents and developers is a really great idea for Asia in particular. We’ve seen probably a massive increase in proptech investment globally. So in 2012, investment in proptech was only $200 million, hardly anything, right? This is 2012, when the world was digitising at a rapid rate, and they spent $20 million on PropTech until last year was about $8 billion. So that shows you the growth of what’s in the market today. The problem being that 95% of all of that investment is not in Asia, it’s in the US and in the North America. So the opportunities to digitise Asia was huge for us. So we knew that with all of the developments on PropTech, from the developed countries and Western economies, they hadn’t really thought about the intricacies and uniqueness of Asia when the develop into product, which is why when we talk to our agencies and clients, they tell us that, there are software out there in the market, it just doesn’t really fit our needs, it just doesn’t really work. So we decided what we need to do is: two and a half years ago, go on to the market, build a product best in class, we find the best things out there, build a best in class and and uniquely position that for Asia, because we know that this is a really, really highly complex market, the kind of assets that we build are different. We build lots of towers, communities of towers in big major, major areas, and there’s a huge amount of transactions and a lot of data everywhere. So we knew that we had to cater for that. And once we’ve done that, I think you know, to translate that and across all around the world, globally, we will be the easiest task.

Darren Wong: I see. Can explain the current state of how real estate professionals engage with clients, and how does Property Raptor startup can improve the whole process of it a bit?

Justin Lau: Sorry, can you repeat that again, sorry Darren. I just missed out.

Darren Wong: Yeah. Can you explain the current state of how real estate professionals engage with their clients and how your startup can improve the whole process?

[00:04:33] Justin Lau: [00:04:33] Yeah. So actually the way that they engage with clients is actually very, very traditional. Yes, they pick up the phone, they send some emails, they send some SMS, and it’s all within their own Gmail accounts, and phones and so on. And even in some instances, developers and agencies are working on Excel spreadsheets, or sharing documents. In an advanced version, they would be sharing documents in Google Docs. And in some cases, developers are faxing inventory to the agency using fax. I didn’t know faxes still exist in today’s world, but that’s exactly what’s happening. Agents are typically handling multiple projects at the same time. So if you’re thinking about new developers or new developments agents are handling multiple developments at the same time, with thousands of units, particularly in Asia, for them to understand the client lists who needs what, and who wants what and, with thousands of units available at any one time for them, it’s almost impossible for them to handle those kinds of lists. The statistics is that an agent will probably spend three or four hours a day just trying to match up clients with inventory, which is incredible, right? These are things that they do every single day. And what they really need is a system to help them automate a way their processes, the process of automation of any repetitive tasks is key to what they need. So they can spend more time with the clients and selling real estate, and nothing really help them to do that. So what we did at Property Raptor was to develop this system, and it was developed by IMS, it’s one of the largest digital agencies in Asia with the most software developers as an independent firm, is to build a system that really helps the agencies match up the right clients with the right assets, but also the other way around, match up the right assets with the right clients. So you would think they are one in the same but they’re not, so as new information comes in, an agent wouldn’t then go and try to find clients that fit them, what we’ve tried to do is to use kind of advanced AI and data query, and use machine learning within our property Raptor system to help match clients with assets and then with assets with the clients. This  is not purely the screening functions that you see in all the other portals. Darren can be always finding a three bedrooms, two bathroom with a balcony, in a specific area of town. But what we do is we use fuzzy logic, AI, in order to find the most appropriate assets for those clients. What you’ll find actually is that around 50% of clients, what they end up buying, doesn’t fit the spec of what they told the agent in the first place. So if what they buy isn’t what they told the agents in the first place, how the agent supposed to find the right kind of asset for them? So with our system, agencies will be able to use the digital assets, like the websites and portals and apps, in order to track the behaviour of those clients. And then using that, [00:07:30] to match up the correct assets and apartments for the buyer.

Darren Wong: It’s very interesting, because we talked about the whole journey, I can even envision myself and before I talk to different people about property tech, is pick a hard time to understand, and a lot of agents that I know, and brokers have the same problem. So it’s a lot of things to do, a lot of mini manage, a lot of things going on is really hard to understand CRM systems sometimes, because at the moment,  a lot of your answers are very complicated for them, it’s a lot of things to juggle. So it’s interesting when you think about that. So what’s the challenge when introducing to real estate companies and professional when it comes to talking about Property Raptor and their product you guys are selling?

[00:08:14] Justin Lau: I think the challenges are different in different locations. So in Asia, for example, I think this is where this is where we are based to, and this is our backyard. And we decided to do this because we saw a massive gap in Asia. And so in Asia, the issue is that they’re not really even using software. What do we do in Asia, and Hong Kong and Singapore, or Vietnam and Indonesia is, agencies tend to throw headcount at a problem, right? They have more developments to sell. They just hire more people because they are cheap. Hire more people, and stand outside IFC, or some big building or landmark and hand out flyers, and hope they can catch on clients in that way. So one of our key challenges is essentially to educate the client and to demonstrate how our product can address most of the problems and the pain points. So at the moment, we’re within a round of fundraising, so that we can expand ourselves on broader teams, so to further support our clients demand and, and truly show the capabilities of our platform and really empower them to generate more sales quickly. So our model is really to help them close deals faster. And as you’ve seen, I think, in this Coronavirus environment, in this pandemic, all industries are digitising very, very quickly, because they’re seeing their revenues crunched up, businesses are being squeezed, and they try to find a way in order to either maintain market share, or just to not lose so much money. And what we try to do in Property Raptor is to increase efficiency and effectiveness of the sales team that are running real estate agencies. And so that’s one of the challenges is really just to educate and demonstrate our product in Asia. I think most agencies now if they are of a reasonable size, understand that they need more technology, I think it’s an  inescapable fact. Now, in other regions, I think our path to generating adoption may be a little easier, because I don’t need to educate. In Europe and in the US, they are already paying for CRM systems, and software systems, they’re paying for a CRM system, and lead generation system, marketing automation, inventory management, they’re paying for all of these things already. So in those instances, our challenge really is to demonstrate the product, to demonstrate how much more productive they can be, how having a fully integrated all in one system really meets their needs, as opposed to them trying to hack together a solution and trying to kind of overlay linking up multiple systems, where they have the same data sets in multiple different systems, and it just really doesn’t work for them. Because how do they keep data sanitised? They can’t even do that. So it’s different challenges we have in different places. But I think what’s really clearly shown is that the opportunity is big no matter where the clients are.

Darren Wong:  I see, that was really good. Because even I feel the same way is that I think Asia for example, a lot of opportunity, because a lot of people do want to innovate in the process. And I think what you’re offering right now, it sounds really, really cool. And I think it’s gonna be a very good way. So I’m curious too, as a founder, obviously, you envision about what Property Raptor will become, what do you think, three years or even more than that, how would Property Raptor serve and benefit the clients, and how do you envision to develop into?

Justin Lau: Yeah, so at the moment, we are Property Raptor is essentially a SAaS, software as a service. And we are seeing that a lot of agencies are signing up dozens of agents at a time, and we’re getting good traction in just solving an immediate problem for each of those agents, so they get  adoption. And over time, as we grow the sales team, I’m sure that we’ll grow quickly into different countries in different regions. You know, we’ll be able to localise languages and compliance rules and so on, we’re already doing that. One of the most interesting parts of Raptor is the ability for all Raptor instances and all Raptor users to be linked to each other. So that’s through our blockchain technology. And so in our case, if you have an agency in the UK with infantry that they want to sell, but they have nobody to sell it to, it would be very easy for them to connect with agencies in Hong Kong or China, where there are clients, and the AI can figure out, you know what, you have these assets in the UK from a different agency, or I’m gonna have these clients in this region of the world, and they match together, right? Or you can have developers who would have developed a module off Property Raptor, and they could release the inventory through the blockchain to agencies from around the world, instead of what they do now, instead of flying around to Hong Kong and China and Australia and New York, and setting up showrooms and events in hotels, and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars just to throw an event. And so in this way, the blockchain technology allows different instances of Raptor to connect to each other, which we hope eventually anyway will become the largest blockchain property listing portal anywhere in the world. And I think that’s the real value of what we have is not just as a CRM SAAS platform, this is not just a CRM, I mean, we are CRM on steroids here, which is a CRM plus lead generation, lead nurturing, marketing automation, inventory management system, all in one. So that in itself is compelling for clients. But the ability  to link up all of those instances together and allow the clients that wish to be connected with other Raptor agencies and developers to connect with each other is generating huge value. And I think, you know, we will create a massive community network of agencies and developers, but really all because they wanted to solve an immediate CRM lead generation, marketing automation problem.

Darren Wong: I see. I sound really excited, because I think a  lot companies want to have the innovations that I think, obviously, you’re one of the players in Hong Kong or in Asia that wants to actively do that. So for people who are interested to know more about Property Raptors and about your work, how to get people to find out more about it and talk to you?

Justin Lau: Well, obviously, we have a website that everybody can go into, There’s a lot of information on that. You can book yourself a tour of the system and it will happily run through demos. We do literally dozens of demos a week, and to all kinds of different clients around the world. We’re catering for all kinds of agencies. And when we first came into this, we probably didn’t realise the different agency verticals that exist in the market, there’s master agents, international associations, domestic sales actions, domestic developers, agencies that sell domestic developments to projects to a domestic buys overseas, to local buys, it is all kinds of different agencies, and large and small. And so we are attracting a lot of different agencies in just through our website to book tours and sign up to Raptor.

Darren Wong: Thanks a lot for your time. I think a lot of people will benefit from that. And hopefully come on board another show next time.

Justin Lau: No problem at all. Thank you, Darren.

Darren Wong: Thank you. Have a good day. Thanks.

Darren Wong:所以Justin,歡迎你來到本集節目。

Justin Lau:謝謝Darren邀請我。

Darren Wong: 是的,所以這真的很令人興奮,因為我聽說了很多關於你們的事情。你們正在做的事情很了不起,推動了香港的房地產科技領域。這個產品聽起來真的很酷。所以顯然有這個機會能邀請你來到這個節目真的很好。所以在開始前,你介意向觀眾介紹一下你自己,以及是Property Raptor嗎?

Justin Lau: 當然,我在大約兩年半前創立了Property Raptor,我在過去的工作,實際上是在金融和銀行領域。所以我做了十多年的銀行家,在資本市場工作,和客戶談論銷售股票,並為他們提供買賣建議,隨後進入私人股權領域,在科技領域和私人股權方面做了大量工作。你知道,實際上是兩年半前,我萌生關於Property Raptor的念頭。我們在那個領域做了大量的投資。我們從很多不同的機構和不同的市場投資者都會告訴我們他們認為房地產軟件領域的服務確實不足,特別是在亞洲。尤其是,我的一個好友在大灣區經營一家代理商。他說,他不能進一步擴張業務的最大原因是,軟件並不能滿足他們管理更大業務的需求。這就是啟發有關Property Raptor的想法的原因。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。這真的很有趣,因為很多人都在想,你怎麼才能讓房地產經紀人有一個更好的接洽流程?所以,你能詳細說明一下Property Raptor的起源嗎,以及客戶關係管理系統以及關注客戶關係管理系統為何對房地產企業如此重要?

Justin Lau:大家都知道香港是一個全球化的大城市。最重要的產業是金融、財產和零售業等。但在這個都市裡真正落後的,尤其是在房地產業,不僅在香港,而且在全球任何地方的房地產業的阻礙都是轉換到數位化的過程。但這行業的數位化的過程實在非常非常緩慢。事實上,它可能是世界上僅次於農業為數位化進程中倒數第二的,這令人難以置信,鑒於這行業在全球和世界各地的規模有多大。所以,當我們發現越來越多的機構告訴我們,他們沒有滿足他們所需的軟件,他們有多個無法正確連接的系統,我們决定建立一個能够在企業級為機構、代理和開發人員提供服務的軟件系統特別對於亞洲來說,這是一個非常好的主意。我們已經看到在房地產科技投資的全球性大幅增長。在2012年,房地產科技的投資只有2億美元,幾乎什麼都沒有,對吧?這是2012年的數字,當世界正在飛速數位化,而他們在房地產科技上花費了2000萬美元,到去年為止大約是80億美元。所以這向你展示了當今市場的增長。問題在於那95%的投資並不在亞洲,而是在美國和北美。因此,我們在亞洲有很多發展數位化的機會。所以我們知道,隨著已開發國家和西方經濟體在房地產科技方面的所有發展,他們並沒有真正考慮到亞洲的複雜性和獨特性,特別當他們建立這些產品時,這就是為什麼當我們與我們的代理商和客戶交談時,他們告訴我們,市場上有軟件,但實際上它們不太符合我們的需要,亦起不了什麼作用。兩年前,我們决定我們要做的是, 在市場上尋找最好的產品,最好的東西,為亞洲獨特的位置建立一個一流的產品,因為我們知道這是一個非常非常複雜的市場,我們所建的房地產的種類是不同的。我們建造許多高樓,在主要的城市建造了許多高樓,到處都有大量的交易和大量的數據。所以我們知道我們必須將這些納入考慮。一旦我們做到了這一點,我想你知道的,把它應用到世界各地,全球範圍內,將是我們最容易的任務。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。可以解釋一下房地產專業人士與客戶接觸的現狀,以及Property Raptor能夠如何改善整個過程嗎?

Justin Lau:對不起,你能再說一遍嗎,對不起,Darren。我剛錯過了。

Darren Wong: 是的。你能解釋一下現在房地產專業人士如何與客戶接觸的狀況,以及您的初創公司將如何改善整個過程嗎?

Justin Lau:是的。所以實際上他們和客戶打交道的管道是非常非常傳統的。是的,他們使用電話,發些電郵,發短信,這些都是他們自己的Gmail帳戶和電話等等。甚至在某些情况下,開發人員和代理機構正在開發Excel試算表,或者共享文件。在更進一步的情況,他們將在Google Docs中共享檔案。在某些情况下,開發商使用傳真將庫存清單傳真給代理商。我不知道今天世上還存在文件傳真,但這正是還在發生的事情。代理商通常同時處理多個項目。所以如果你在考慮新的發展商或新的開發專案,代理同時處理多個開發專案,接近上千個單位,特別是在亞洲,他們要瞭解客戶清單上,誰需要什麼,誰想要什麼,而且由於在任何時候都有數千個可供使用的單位,他們幾乎沒有辦法處理這些清單。根據統計,一個代理商每天可能要花三到四個小時來匹配客戶和庫存,這太難以想像了,對吧?這些都是他們每天所做的事。而他們真正需要的是一個系統來幫助他們自動化他們的流程,自動化任何重複性任務都是十分關鍵的,針對於他們需要什麼來說。這讓他們可以花更多的時間和客戶在一起,銷售房地產,而沒有什麼能真正幫助他們做到這一點。所以我們在Property Raptor所做的就是開發這個系統,它是由IMS開發的,它是亞洲最大的數位機构之一,作為一個獨立的公司它擁有最多的軟體發展人員,為了建立一個能夠真正幫助代理商將正確的客戶與正確的資產匹配起來的系統,但反過來,也可以將正確的資產與正確的客戶匹配起來。所以你會認為他們是一體的,但他們並不是,所以當收到新的房地產資訊時,代理不會去尋找適合它們的客戶,我們所做的是使用先進的人工智慧和資料查詢,並在我們的Property Raptor系統中使用機器學習來幫助客戶匹配資產,然後與客戶匹配資產。這個不是您在所有其他網站上看到的基本篩選功能。Darren可以一直在找一個三臥室,兩個的浴室,帶陽臺,以及在鎮上特定的位置的單位。但是我們要做的是使用人工智慧,運用模糊邏輯,為這些客戶找到最合適的房地產。你會發現事實上,大約有50%的客戶,他們最終購買的東西,並不符合他們最初告訴代理商的規格。所以如果他們買的不是他們告訴代理商的條件,代理商應該如何為他們找到合適的資產?所以有了我們的系統,機構就可以數位化資產,如網站、入口網站和應用程序,以追蹤這些客戶的習慣。然後用這些資訊[00:07:30]為買家匹配正確的資產和公寓。

Darren Wong:這非常有趣,因為我們談過了這整個過程,我甚至可以想像自己,在我和不同的人談論房地產科技之前,我花了很多時間去難理解這個難題,而且我認識的很多經紀人和經紀人都有同樣的問題。所以有很多事情要處理,很多細微的管理,太多方面令CRM系統有時候很難理解,因為現在,你的答案對他們來說大多很複雜,給了他們很多要處理和理解的事情要。所以當你想到這一點時很有趣。那麼,當介紹給房地產公司和專業人士時,你遇到什麼挑戰呢,當你想談談你們正在銷售的Property Raptor和你們的產品的時候?

Justin Lau: 我認為在不同的地方面臨的挑戰是不同的。例如在亞洲,我想想這就是我們的基地,這是我們的後院。我們决定這麼做是因為我們看到了在亞洲的巨大差距。所以在亞洲,他們甚至沒有用任何軟件。我們在亞洲做什麼,香港和新加坡,或越南和印尼,代理商往往會把問題歸咎於員工人數不足,對吧?他們還有更多的樓盤要出售。他們只會雇傭更多的人是因為他們很便宜。雇傭更多的人,站在國際金融公司(IFC)或一些大型建築或地標外發放傳單,希望他們能用這種管道抓住客戶。因此,我們的一個關鍵挑戰疾病上是教育客戶並展示我們的產品如何解决大多數問題和痛點。因此現時我們正在籌款,這樣我們就可以在更廣泛的團隊中擴展自己,從而進一步支持客戶的需求,並真正展示我們平臺的功能,真正使他們能够快速產生更多銷售。所以我們的模式是幫助他們更快地達成交易。正如你所看到的,我想在這種冠狀病毒的環境下,在這場全球大流行的疫情中,所有行業都在非常非常迅速地數位化,因為他們看到了他們的收入縮水,企業受到擠壓,他們試圖找到一種方法,要麼保持市場份額,或是減少金錢損失。我們在Property Raptor中所做的是提高效率以及經營房地產代理的銷售團隊的有效性。所以這就是我們面臨的挑戰之一就是在亞洲教育和展示我們的產品。我認為現在大多數有合理規模的機構,明白他們需要更多的科技,我認為這只是一個不可避免的事實。現在,在其他地區,我認為我們的推廣途徑可能會更容易一些,因為我不需要教育。在歐洲和美國,他們已經在為CRM系統和軟件系統付費,他們正在為CRM系統和潛在客戶開發系統行銷自動化、庫存管理等系統付費,他們已經為所有這些東西買單了。因此,在這些情况下,我們真正的挑戰是展示產品,展示它們的更高的生產效率,一個集的多功能於一體系統能夠如何真正滿足他們的需求,而不是他們嘗試將多個系統連接起來,勉強拼凑出一個解決方案,當他們在多個不同的系統中擁有相同的數據,所以這對他們來說真的不起作用。因為他們如何能夠確保數據能被永久移除?他們甚至不能這麼做。所以我們在不同的地方面臨著不同的挑戰。但我認為實際上是很清楚的,無論客戶在哪裡,我們的機會都很大。

Darren Wong: 很好。因為甚至我也有同樣的感覺,比如說亞洲,機會很多,因為很多人確實想在這個過程中創新。我覺得你現在提供的產品,聽起來真的、真的很酷。我覺得是會是個很好的方法。所以我也很好奇,作為一個創始人,很明顯,你預期Property Raptor未來的發展會怎樣,你怎麼看三年或更長的時間後,Property Raptor將如何為客戶服務並使其受益,您有什麼關於未來的發展的設想?

Justin Lau:[00:11:39]是的,所以現在,我們Property Raptor本質上是一個SAAS(軟件即服務)。我們看到很多機構一次於幾十個代理簽約,而我們有辦法可以很好地解决每個代理即時的問題,而他們會習慣使用我們的系統。隨著時間的推移,隨著我們銷售團隊的不斷壯大,我相信我們會迅速發展到不同國家和地區。你知道,我們可以切換成當地語言和配合當地法規和規則等等,而我們已經在做了。Property Raptor最有趣的部分之一是給予所有分布於不同地方的和所有Property Raptor用戶和彼此連結的機會。這是通過我們的區塊鏈科技。所以在我們的案例中,如果你在英國有代理商有房地產想出售,但是他們沒有合適的買家,所以他們很容易就能夠與香港或中國的代理商聯系,如果這些地方有客戶,AI可以發現,你知道嗎,你在英國有來自另一個代理商的資產,或者我會有這些客戶在世界的不同角落,而我能夠讓他們在配對一起,對嗎?或者你可以讓開發人員開發一個脫離Property Raptor以外的模塊,他們可以通過區塊鏈向來自世界各地的代理商發佈庫存,而不是他們現在運作模式,飛到香港、中國、澳大利亞和紐約,設立展廳及在飯店舉辦活動,為舉辦一個活動支付數十萬美元。因此,區塊鏈科技允許不同Raptor用家相互連接,我們希望最終它將成為世界上最大的區塊鏈房地產上市系統。我認為這才是我們的產品所擁有的真正價值,不僅僅是作為一個CRM SAAS平臺,這不僅僅是一個CRM,我的意思是,我們是一個比CRM更出色、有潛力的產品,這是一個CRM再加上潛在客戶開發、潛在客戶培育、行銷自動化、庫存管理系統,所有這些都在一個功能中。所以這本身對客戶來說是很有吸引力的。但是能夠將所有這些功能連接在一起的能力,並允許希望與其他Property Raptor機構和開發人員連接的客戶彼此連接會創造巨大的價值。我想,你知道,我們會為代理商和發展商建立一個龐大的社區網絡,但實際上都是因為他們想解决CRM的潛在客戶開發、行銷自動化問題。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。我聽起來真的很令人興奮,因為我覺得很多公司都希望有創新的科技,我認為,很明顯,你是在香港或亞洲的開發者之一而你希望大家積極地這樣做。因此,對於那些有興趣瞭解更多關於Property Raptors和你的工作的人,他們能夠任何瞭解更多關於它的資訊並與你交流?

Justin Lau: 顯然我們有一個人人都可以進入的網站,,網站上面有很多這方面的資訊。您可以為自己預約一個系統教程,它將愉快地進行演示。我們每週做幾十個演示,面向世界各地不同的客戶。我們為各種機構提供服務。而當我們第一次進入這一領域時,我們可能沒有意識到存在著不同的代理市場在市場上,有主代理、國際代理、國內銷售機構、將國內開發專案銷售給在海外本土買家的機購,以及本地買家,有各種各樣的機構,有大有小的規模。所以我們吸引了很多不同的機構只需通過我們的網站預訂並註冊成為Raptor。

Darren Wong: 非常感謝您抽出時間。我想很多人會從中受益。而且希望你能參加下一次的節目。

Justin Lau:沒問題。謝謝你,Darren。Darren Wong: 謝謝。祝您今天過得愉快。謝謝。

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: Choosing The Right Mortgage Like A Pro with Roots

Choosing The Right Mortgage Like A Pro with Roots

The mortgage is undeniably the aspiring property-owner’s go-to; so today we have people from Roots ready to explain the sometimes confounding process of applying for a mortgage.

Key Discussions: 

▶ The Process to Obtain a Mortgage

▶ Tips for Getting a Mortgage for the First Time

▶ Roots’s Vision

▶ Connect with Roots (Kyle Yeung/Joe Cheng):

▶ Source & Supporting:

Mortgage: A mortgage is a debt instrument, secured by the collateral of specified real estate property, that the borrower is obliged to pay back with a predetermined set of payments. 

Maturity Date: The maturity date is the date on which the principal amount of a note, draft, acceptance bond or other debt instrument becomes due. 

Approval in Principle: Approval in principle (AIP) is an agreement stating a bank’s promise to lend you money for a home loan. 

Mortgage Consultants: Essentially, mortgage consultants exist to help people or businesses to find the right mortgage. 

Stress test (mortgage): In finance, planning for a worst-case scenario is called a stress test. It involves modeling a bad scenario before an investment is made. 

Collateral: A collateral mortgage is a type of loan secured against the borrower’s property (home) 

Deposit: an amount of money that you pay as the first part of the total payment for something: 

Subsidized Public Housing: If you live in public housing, the housing authority owns your building and is your landlord. 

Off-Plan Property: An off-plan investment strategy consists of purchasing a property before it has started construction. 

Loan Ceiling: A loan ceiling is the maximum amount that a financial institution will lend an individual, family or business. 

Hong Kong Inter Bank Offer Rate (HIBOR): The Hong Kong Interbank Offered Rate, known by its abbreviation HIBOR, is the benchmark interest rate, stated in Hong Kong dollars, for lending between banks within the Hong Kong market. 

Cash Rebate: With a cash back mortgage, your lender advances you a cash lump sum when your mortgage closes.

Taipei FinTech Week: 


▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript [English & Chinese]

Darren Wong: So hey, everyone. Welcome to the show.

Joe Cheng: Hi.

Kyle Yeung: Hi, how are you doing?

Darren Wong: Very good. Very good. So I want to say thank you for coming on, because mortgage is a very big topic in real estate for sure. And then, not many people actually tackled that, except for the traditional professional like bankers, and so on. So having someone like you guys, which is very interesting product. I think it’s very cool idea. And then thanks to Elliott for introducing us together. I think that the audience will appreciate to learn more about mortgages and how to do it for first-time buyers. So start from the beginning, would you mind telling us about your background? Let’s start with Joe and then Kyle.

Joe Cheng: Okay, sure. Thank you there for the opportunity. So my name is Joe, and I’m a co-founder of Roots, together with Kyle who is also here today. So a little bit description about my service. After I graduated from the UK, I came back to Hong Kong, started to work for private banks, one of the Swedish private banks in Hong Kong, for around four and a half, five years. Then, I feel like big corporates might not be the thing for me for the future, or for my career. So I started doing an MBA in HKUST, where I meet Kyle. So together, we both are the ones who don’t want to work for big corporates and want to start something for ourselves. So together with some of the background that Kyle might talk to you about later on his profile, we started Roots, because we think that we have the network and we have the intelligence or the professional background to help Hong Kong homebuyers to get their mortgage done as soon as possible and as fast as they can to make sure that they can complete the whole process online.

Darren Wong: Kyle, how about yourself?

Kyle Yeung: So, I graduated from the USA. And then I came back after graduation. Similar to Joe, worked in big corporates for a couple of years, I was in accounting and finance field. And then after a couple years, I just thought that time tech was booming, and I want to learn more about how startups work and all that. So I decided to go into MBA, and I met Joe there, and actually joined, I actually went through a lot of ideas on what sort of startups that we can potentially start. And our experience taught us that mortgage is something that a lot of people know about, but also at the same time don’t know about. For example, one of our common friends who went through the mortgage process with a very strong solid background, but ended up almost losing her deposit for the property because the mortgage process pretty much sort of screwed her up, without the lack of a better term, because of the complication and all that. And we found out Joe, and our knowledge was able to help the process to refine and make it more simpler, make it more straightforward for the people in Hong Kong who wants to purchase property. So that’s how we started and it’s been a year or so and things have been going well so far. So yeah, now, here we are. We’re hoping to expand our company in the next year or two.

Darren Wong: Yeah, when I learned about your business, it’s a really cool idea is something that like, Oh, I never thought that would be for us. That is such as something that you think that in 2020, people already built that product out. But no one’s doing that except for you guys so far. So before coming, talking about Roots, your company and what do you guys do, would you mind telling the audience who might not be familiar about the mortgage landscape in Hong Kong?

[00:03:52] Kyle Yeung: [00:03:52] So basically, mortgage is like a loan for property owned or purchased as a collateral, so the loan is secured against the value of your home until it’s paid off. And given Hong Kong is the number one, or most expensive city to live in the property price are close to USD 2K per square feet on average, and 90% of the property purchase in Hong Kong requires a mortgage. So because how expensive it is, not many people can full pay the property upon purchase, and the average mortgage size is around 4 million Hong Kong dollars. That being said, we found out a lot of potential buyers do not understand what mortgages as I said and how to obtain a mortgage, resulting in over 300, 400 cases of forfeit of deposit a year and adds up to 400 million Hong Kong dollars in 2019 alone. So on average, we’re talking about at least 1 to 2 case of forfeit of deposit that happened last year.

Darren Wong: I see. So what’s the process to obtain a mortgage? When should you do so within the real estate investing process, and for that, how does Roots help in the whole process?

[00:05:14] Kyle Yeung: So oftentimes in Hong Kong, investors will apply for a mortgage from the banks in Hong Kong after they place their initial deposit for the property they want to purchase. And the mortgage application process can take anywhere from two weeks to two months. Therefore, like we always encourage our investors, homebuyers to act on the mortgage application as soon as they place their deposit and allow sufficient time to complete the purchase. The day that a buyer usually has to pay the outstanding amount to the seller is around 90 days in general. So usually the application process which takes two weeks to two months will be sufficient to process the property purchase process. Some part of the world is very different. They have something what we call “approval in principle”, that means that the potential homebuyers can go to a bank before placing a deposit for the purchase and get a pre-approval that says how much the bank is willing to loan you. So with this, the buyer can confidently place deposit on a property based on the pre-approval loan amount. So as we see the difference here, the biggest risk we see for homebuyers and investors in Hong Kong is that they have to place a deposit first, and check with the bank to see whether the bank is willing to provide them a mortgage. And oftentimes we see that homebuyers fail to obtain mortgage from a bank and have to forfeit the deposit place because they don’t understand the process and how things work. So we encourage homebuyers to talk to mortgage consultants like us, because we work closely with the banks, we are familiar with the process and we can do all the numbers crunching beforehand to make sure the buyer profile fit within the bank’s approval guideline. And at the same time, we can increase the approval rate. So lower the risk at the same time.

Darren Wong:I see. So for typical mortgage, for an apartment or a house, what should a homeowner expect to get? I mean in terms of rates, LTV and payment term, etc.

[00:07:30] Joe Cheng: [00:07:29] So in Hong Kong, nowadays homebuyers can get up to a loan of 90% for private estates and 95% for subsidies public housings. In order to get the maximum 90% of mortgage, the homebuyer has to have no property under their name, as well as the property price has to be below 10 million Hong Kong dollar. Anything about 10 million Hong Kong dollar we have a maximum loan ceiling of 50% of the property price. For interest rates, as of now, August 2020, it will be around 2% or 2.5% total, depending on the HIBOR, what we call Hong Kong interbank offered rate, and the payment term can go up to around 30 years maximum. Also, bank offers cash rebates to new mortgage applicants to attract the patients some cash rebate would be up to 1% of the loan amount approved, but the cash rate going down right now because of the uncertainty over the market. So you expect around 0.2 to 0.5% of the total loan amount approved.

Darren Wong: I see. And so how does the lender assess a project and how the key terms vary?

[00:08:40] Kyle Yeung: [00:08:40] That is a very good question. So, the banks usually look at the two big things. The first thing is the property, the security, the collateral, and at the same time their customer profile. In terms of the property, the bank will assess based on the type of the property and the age of the property. Banks typically favour private estates, such as Tai Koo Shing. These are private estates. They prefer these over village house or tenement buildings, which we call Tong Lou, the ones without the elevator. Applying for a mortgage usually using a favoured  property as collateral, will likely allow the borrower to obtain a more favourable terms such as a longer term loan or a lower interest rate. On the other hand, the bank will assess the lenders’ profile based on their income, their age, the credit score, and banks typically favour applicants with stable income and they have a tighter policy for self-employed applicants and older advocate applicants in terms of age will typically lead to a shorter long term. So again, for anyone who’s interested in the property to purchase, looking for mortgage, it’s better to ask for a mortgage consultant beforehand, make sure that they can get the maximum loan amount that they can.

Darren Wong: So on that note, how about for married couple or a family with a kid, or let’s say different income level of the household, how does that affect the people as well?

[00:10:26] Kyle Yeung: Well, typically, if I tell you a married couple wants to purchase a property together, the banks will access them together. They will assess both of their profiles in terms of their income, and their age and the credit score together. If let’s say one of the applicant is younger than the other, they will usually take the lower age and they will take both of their income together as the total household income and because of that, with two sets of income, usually married couples will be able to purchase a property with the higher value compared to a person who is a single-person household.

Darren Wong: I see. So what are some points to know for first-time buyers who was applying for a mortgage? Any tips for them?

[00:11:22] Joe Cheng: [00:11:22] So I guess there are three major points for first-time homebuyers. The first one is obviously affordability. So as Kyle just mentioned, there was a household income so called “stress tests” required for anyone who wish to purchase a property in Hong Kong, that applies the mortgage. To put it in the simplest term, for every 10,000 Hong Kong dollar of salary, it will get you around 1 million Hong Kong dollar worth of mortgage loans. So given that there’s no other outstanding repayment that will be the simplest term in order to calculate the stress test. The second point will be choice of banks. So there are so many banks in Hong Kong that offers mortgages, and the Big Four will be called HSBC, Bank of China, Hang Seng bank and Standard Charter, they are the better ones with better process and faster approval timeframe. Most of the mid-tier banks will have a better cash rebate as what we just talked about to attract clients, but they’re more picky in terms of property type, and at the application profile. The third point will be documentations. So the below will be mandatory documents required from every bank to apply for mortgage, including your identity proof, which normally would be the Hong Kong ID, salary proof, your tax receipt, the latest three months of bank statements as well as the sales and purchase agreement, these documents are necessary in order to kick start the application. Other banks might have required follow up documents, depending on the situation and applicants to facilitate the approval process. So I guess these are the three main points: affordability, what banks are you going to apply, and what documents you need before you are going to apply for a mortgage?

Darren Wong: I see. So obviously, I look into Roots, and saying that you guys are solving the troublesome of applying for mortgage application one by one. So can you tell us more about how you guys help the home buyer to approve his process and secure the mortgage?

[00:13:21] Joe Cheng: Okay, so as what Kyle has said, we saw a lot of forfeit of deposit or mortgage reject cases in the last few years. Actually, there are around 400 case every year. So as we are talking right now, there’s possibly one case out there, who just forfeit the deposit because of mortgage rejection. So at Roots, we can help to solve this rigid and untransparent mortgage process by reversing the existing journey in Hong Kong. As what Kyle has said there was there are some sort of “approval in principle” elsewhere in the world, but not in Hong Kong. So by first knowing what banks are willing to offer you before placing your deposit. With our risk engine, we can help eliminate the risk of unsuccessful purchase due to denied mortgage applications, making sure that you have the right application for the right bank to complete your home purchase.

Darren Wong: I see. So obviously, as a proptech founder like myself and you guys, how do you envision room to grow into? What kind of scalability to features and so on like that?

[00:14:25] Kyle Yeung:  So while we started off in Hong Kong because we’re born and raised here, we actually visited Taiwan end of last year and attended the Taipei FinTech week, and we realised that’s Taiwan could be our next expansion point. Taiwan is actually very similar to Hong Kong in terms of demographics through a large portion of up and rising younger population, which faces daily challenges and getting a mortgage and property because of the complicated process. So while their pain points might be similar, but not exactly the same, but having said that our solution and our experience in Hong Kong understanding of the banking system in Hong Kong, maybe we can apply our solution with a little tweak and apply it in Taiwan. But I mean, having said that, we have what we hope that we can complete our R&D and revamp by the end of this year, which is happening soon, so stay tuned, and establish our roots in Hong Kong. So once we build a solid foundation in the local market, I think, by the end of maybe next year, we’re ready to expand into other locations, and or any other places in the world.

Darren Wong: That’s really cool. Because I think you guys keep the tagline to Expedia, for finding mortgage. And I think that’s so cool that you even can do that. So I think I have some side question for you guys. Have you thought of, for example, there’s some houses might be looking for a second lien or third-lien loan, will you guys consider that and are you guys sticking with residential, and then or going expand for different asset and property type?

Kyle Yeung: As of right now, just in Hong Kong, most of our transactions are focused in residential properties, technically speaking, if any customer coming into us, asking us to help them out looking for a mortgage, actually any type of property we can do. So it’s basically the same process for us. But then again, since most of the transactions are focused in the residential properties, so I would just tell you that our focus right now will still be the residential market.

Joe Cheng: So I guess, what we want to say is Roots is an online robot advisory platform, which allows homebuyers to apply and compare mortgage, just like you said, as simple as booking a trip on Expedia. The second thing is typical mortgage property purchase is risky, and it requires homebuyers to place deposit before they apply for mortgage in Hong Kong, which is not the ideal way to do it. However, it is the way and we have to stick to it. And we’ve tried to reverse the process by using Roots to help analyse your profile, and increase your mortgage approval rate through our predictive algorithm. And that’s what we are trying to do right now, to help people bring back their roots to Hong Kong.

Darren Wong: I see. And I’m sure like for a tech product, I think it’s very interesting because it’s more consumer facing, and I think where people are stuck at is people that don’t have the luxury to learn the knowledge, and then to understand the process. So you know, I’m sure a lot of people will get benefit from your product. So what kind of take away would you want the audience to have from this video?

Darren Wong: I see. For people who want to talk to you more about the subject, and then your service and so on, what’s the best way you suggest them to reach out to you?

Joe Cheng: So if they’re interested to know more about how to purchase a home, or how to apply for a mortgage, you can reach out to us through WhatsApp at 97872498, or our email So feel free to reach out to any of these emails or WhatsApp, Joe, myself and Kyle will be able to help you with any questions you have.

Darren Wong: I’m sure that I’ll put everything in the show notes. And then obviously, I’ll have a profile for you guys to tell people more about how to do a mortgage in Hong Kong or in Taiwan, for say. And I want to say like thanks for coming in. And then there are actually a lot of questions about mortgage I want to ask you more, but we’ll leave it for round two in the future then.

Kyle Yeung: Sounds good. Appreciate for the opportunity.

Darren Wong: Yeah, no worries. And then I got the next time. Thank you so much. Cheers.

Kyle Yeung: Thank you. Bye.

Darren Wong: 大家好。歡迎收看節目。

Joe Cheng: 嗨。

Kyle Yeung: 嗨,你好嗎?

Darren Wong: 非常好,很好。那我想感謝你來到我們的節目,因為按揭貸款在房地產行業是一個非常重要的話題。然後,除了像銀行家這樣的傳統專業人士,沒有多少人真正解决這個問題。所以有你們這樣的人,你們有這個非常有趣的產品,我覺得這個主意很酷。然後感謝Elliot將我們互相介紹。我認為觀眾將很高興瞭解更多有關按揭貸款以及如何為首次置業者提供貸款。所以從頭開始,你能告訴我們你的背景嗎?讓我們先從Joe開始,然後到Kyle。

Joe Cheng: 好的,當然。謝謝你給我這個機會。我是Joe,我和今天也在這裡的Kyle是Roots的聯合創始人。讓我對我的服務做一點描述。我從英國畢業後回到香港,開始在香港其中的一所瑞典私人銀行工作大約四年半,五年。那麼,我覺得大公司可能不會成為我未來或事業的目標。所以我開始在香港科技大學攻讀MBA,在那裡我認識了Kyle。所以我們都是那些不太想為大公司工作的人,而是想為自己開創事業。囙此,結合Kyle稍後可能會在他的個人介紹中跟你談論的一些背景,我們創辦來Roots,因為我們認為我們有這樣的資源和人脈,我們有智慧或專業背景來幫助香港置業者儘快完成按揭貸款,以確保他們能够在網上完成整個過程。

Darren Wong:Kyle,你呢?

Kyle Yeung :所以,我從美國畢業,畢業後就回來了。跟Joe有點相似,我在大公司工作了幾年,我在會計和金融領域工作。幾年後,我認為當時科技發展十分蓬勃,我想瞭解更多關於創業公司的運作。所以我决定攻讀MBA,我在那裡認識了Joe,事實上加入後,我對我們可以創辦哪些類型的創業公司有了很多想法。我們的經驗告訴我們按揭貸款是很多人都知道但同時又太理解的事情。例如,我們的一個共同朋友有著非常有實力的背景,但按揭貸款的過程幾乎把她搞砸了,我沒有更貼切的描述,衍生的問題讓她幾乎失去了她的首期存款。然後我們找到了Joe,我們的知識可以幫助我們改進讓它更簡單,令那些想購置業的香港人能更直接申請按揭。我們就是這樣開始了一年了,到目前為止一切都很順利。所以是的,現在我們在這裏,我們希望在未來一兩年內擴大公司規模。

Darren Wong: 是的,當我知道你的生意,這是一個很酷的主意,就像,哦,我從沒想過我們會有這個服務。你會認為在2020年,人們早已經建立了這種產品。但到目前為止除了你們沒人這麼做。所以在談談你的公司Roots和你們所做的事情之前,你介意告訴那些可能可能不熟悉香港按揭貸款的情況的觀眾?

Kyle Yeung: 基本上,按揭貸款就像以擁有或購買的房產作為抵押的貸款,所以貸款的價值是以你的房屋價值為抵押,直到你還清貸款為止。考慮到香港是世界第一,或者說是生活開支最高昂的城市,房價平均接近每平方英尺2千美元,90%在香港購買的房地產需要抵押貸款。因為它是這麼昂貴,並沒有多少人能够在購買時全額支付房產,而平均抵押貸款約400萬港元。但話說回來,我們發現很多潜在的買家不明白我所說的按揭貸款以及如何獲得貸款,導致每年超過三四百宗沒收首期存款的例子,單單在2019年,加起來就高達四億港元。所以平均來說,我們所說的是至少有一到兩宗沒收首期存款的例子。

Darren Wong:我明白了。那麼獲得按揭貸款的過程是怎樣的呢?在房地產投資過程中,你應該在什麼時候這樣做?Roots在這整個過程中能夠提供什麼幫助?

Kyle Yeung: 所以在香港,投資者通常會在他們為他們想要購買的房產支付了首期之後向香港的銀行申請按揭貸款。申請按揭貸款的過程可能需要兩周的時間到兩個月。因此,就像我們一直鼓勵我們的投資者和置業者一樣,我們鼓勵他們在提交按揭貸款申請後立即採取行動並留出足够的時間完成購買。通常買家必須向賣方支付未付金額的日子大概在90天左右。所以通常申請過程需要兩周到兩個月就足够了處理物業購買流程。但在世界上有些地方這個流程很不一樣。他們有一些我們稱之為“Approval in Principle”的東西,這意味著有意置業的人在為支付首期之前,可以先去銀行,並獲得一個確認說明銀行有多少錢願意借給你。而有了這一點,購房者就可以放心地根據預先準予的貸款金額,支付房產的首期。正如我們所看到的分別,香港置業者和投資者面臨的最大風險是,他們必須先存款,然後向銀行査詢看看銀行是否願意為他們提供按揭貸款。我們經常看到置業者因為不瞭解流程的運作原理,而導致首期被沒收。所以我們鼓勵置業者和像我們這樣的按揭顧問談談,因為我們與銀行密切合作,我們對流程非常熟悉,我們可以事先先計算所有數字,以確保買家紀錄符合銀行的準予指南。同時,我們可以提高準予率。所以同時降低風險。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼一般單位或房子的按揭貸款,房主應該期望得到什麼?我指在費率、貸款價值比和付款條件等方面。

Joe Cheng: 所以在香港,現在的置業者可以獲得最高90%的貸款用於私人房產,95%用於補貼公共房屋。為了得到最高90%的按揭貸款,置業者者必須在其名下沒有房產,而且房價必須低於1000萬港元。任何高於1000萬港元的房產,我們的最高貸款上限為物業價格的50%。利率方面,現在這刻,2020年8月,這將是大約2%或2.5%,這取決於HIBOR,我們稱之為香港銀行同業拆息,以及還款期限最長可達30年左右。此外,銀行還向新申請按揭貸款的人提供現金回扣,以吸引按揭貸款申請,一些現金回扣將高達準予貸款金額的1%,但由於市場的不確定性,現金利率正在下降。所以你現在預期準予貸款總額的0.2%至0.5%。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼,貸款人如何評估一個項目,關鍵條款如何變化?

Kyle Yeung: 這是一個很好的問題。所以,銀行通常看兩件事。首先是財產,保證金,還有抵押品,以及客戶個人資料。就物業而言,銀行會根據物業的類型和年齡。銀行通常青睞私人地產,如太古城。這些是私人地產。他們更喜歡這些房子,而不是村屋或我們稱之為“唐樓”的,沒有電梯的公寓。使用銀行偏好的房產作為申請按揭貸款抵押,借款人通常會獲得更優惠的條件,如較長的還款期或更低的利率。另一方面,銀行將評估貸款人的情况,根據他們的收入、年齡、信貸評級,銀行通常傾向於收入穩定的申請人,他們對自雇申請人和年齡較大的申請人的年齡通常會導致較短的還款期。所以同樣,對於任何有興趣購買房產、尋求按揭貸款的人,最好事先向按揭顧問諮詢,確保他們能够獲得他們能提供的最大貸款額。

Darren Wong: 那麼,對於已婚夫婦或有孩子的家庭來說呢,家庭收入水准不同,這對人們的影響如何?

Kyle Yeung: 嗯,通常,如果我告訴你,一對已婚夫婦想一起購買房產,銀行會將兩人放在一起評估。他們將評估他們的個人資料,從他們的收入、年齡和信用評分來看。假設一個申請人比另一個年輕,他們會的通常取較低的年齡,他們會將他們的收入加起來作為家庭總收入,因為有了兩套收入,通常已婚夫婦可以比單身家庭的人購買價值更高的房產。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。那麼,對於第一次置業及申請按揭貸款的人有什麼建議嗎?

Joe Cheng:所以我想對於首次置業者來說有三個要點。第一個明顯是負擔能力。正如Kyle剛才提到的,有所謂家庭收入,因此,任何想要在香港購買房產的人都需要進行所謂的“壓力測試”,這適用於按揭。用最簡單的話來說,每1萬港元的薪水,你就可以得到價值約100萬港元的按揭貸款。所以如果沒有其他未償還貸款,這是計算壓力測試最簡單的方法。第二點是選擇的銀行。香港有很多銀行提供抵押貸款,四大銀行為滙豐銀行(HSBC)、中國銀行(Bank of China)、恒生銀行(Hang Seng Bank)和渣打銀行(Standard Charter),它們都是流程好、審批時間快的銀行。正如我們剛才所說的,為了吸引客戶,大多數中端銀行都會有更好的現金回扣,但他們在物業類型和申請方面更挑剔簡介。第三點是文件。以下這些是每家銀行申請按揭貸款的必須文件,包括的身份證明,通常包括香港身份證、收入證明、稅務收據、最近三個月的銀行帳單以及銷售和購買同意書,這些檔案是開始申請程序所必需的。其他銀行根據情况和申請者。可能需要其他進一步的文件,以促進審批過程。所以我想這是三個要點:負擔能力,哪一間銀行,以及在申請按揭貸款之前,您需要哪些文件?

Darren Wong: 我明白了。很明顯,我看到Roots介紹說你們正在解决一個個申請按揭貸款的所遇到的麻煩。那麼,你能告訴我們更多關於你們如何幫助置業者來確保申請通過批核和按揭成功?

Joe Cheng: 好吧,正如Kyle所說的,過去幾年我們看到了很多放棄首期或申請受到拒絕或的案例。事實上,每年大約有400個案例。所以我們現在正在討論的時候,香港的某處可能有一個案子,因為銀行拒絕按揭貸款而要賠上首期。因此在Roots,我們可以通過扭轉香港現有的程序,來幫助解決這種嚴格死板而且透明度低的按揭申請過程。又如Kyle所說的,在世界其他地方有某種“Approval in Principle”的機制,你可以在支付首期之前知道銀行能夠為你提供多少貸款,但在香港沒有。因此通過我們計算風險的程式,我們可以幫助消除因按揭貸款申請被拒而導致購買失敗的風險,確保您能向你選擇的銀行提交有效的申請來完成您的置業程序。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。所以很明顯,作為一個像我和你們這樣的房地產科技公司的創始人,你們如何設想公司的成長?哪方面更具特色、發展性等等?

Kyle Yeung: 所以我們在香港出發是因為我們在這裏出生和長大,我們去年底訪問了臺灣,並參加了臺北金融科技周,我們意識到臺灣可以成為我們下一個擴展點。臺灣在人口結構上與香港非常相似,有一大部分正在向上流動發展的年輕人口,但由於獲得抵押貸款和房產複雜的過程,他們每天都面臨挑戰。雖然他們的困難可能相似,但並不完全相同,但或許我們已我們的解決方案和我們香港的經驗、對香港銀行體系的瞭解,或許我們可以稍作調整,將我們的解決方案應用到臺灣。但同時我們也希望在今年年底完成研發和改造,很快就要發生了,所以請繼續關注,在香港紮根。所以一旦我們在本地市場建立了堅實的基礎,我想,也許到明年年底,我們已經準備好擴展到其他地方,或者世界上任何其他地方。

Darren Wong: 這真的很酷。而且我認為你們用的是像Expedia的廣告語,Roots,尋找按揭貸款。我覺得你們能做到這些實在太酷了。所以我想我有一些其他的問題要問你們。你有沒有想過,比如說,有些房子可能在申請第二份按揭或三按,你們會考慮這一點嗎?你們會專注在住宅物業上,還是離開針對不同的資產和財產類型發展?

Kyle Yeung: 目前在香港,我們的大部分交易都集中在住宅物業上,如果有客戶要求我們幫助他們尋找抵押貸款,實際上是我們可以做的任何類型的財產。因為我們的流程基本上是一樣的。但話說回來,由於大部分交易都集中在住宅物業上,所以我會說我們現在的焦點仍然是住宅市場。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。我覺得以科技產品來說,我覺得它很有趣,因為它更符合消費者需要,我認為人們的難處是那些沒有機會或時間學習這方面的知識,然後在去瞭解過程的。所以你知道,我相信很多人會從你的產品獲益。那麼你希望觀眾從這集節目中得到什麼樣的收穫呢?

[00:17:16]Joe Cheng: 所以我想,我們想說的是Roots是線上智能諮詢平臺,允許購房者申請和比較按揭貸款,正如您所說,就像在Expedia上預訂行程。第二件事是典型的按揭置業是有風險的,它要求置業者在香港申請抵押貸款之前先支付首期,而這不是理想的方法。但是,這是香港的制度而我們必須遵從。在Roots,我們通過運用預測演算法分析你的個人資料,增加你的按揭貸款批核成功的機率,從而扭轉這個高風險的局面過程。而這正是我們現在所要做的,幫助人們把他們的根帶回香港。

Darren Wong: 我明白了。對於那些想和你進一步談談這個話題、你的服務等等的人,你建議他們從那些管道聯系你們?

Joe Cheng: 如果他們有興趣瞭解更多關於如何置業或如何申請按揭貸款的資訊,您可以通過WhatsApp 97872498 ,或我們的電郵 compare@hkroots.io聯繫我們。所以請隨時通過電郵或WhatsApp聯繫,我 Joe 和 Kyle 可以幫你解决任何問題。

Darren Wong: 我肯定我會把所有的東西都寫在節目記錄裏。顯然,我會給你們一個檔案,讓你們告訴大家有關比如如何在香港或臺灣申請按揭貸款。我想說謝謝你們的到來。實際上我還有很多關於抵押貸款的問題,我想問你更多,但讓我們會把它們留給下次節目機會吧。

Kyle Yeung: 聽起來不錯。感謝你給我這個機會。

Darren Wong: 是的,不用擔心。下次見。非常感謝你。謝謝。

Kyle Yeung: 謝謝。再見。

Market Updates 未分類

Why “Community” is important to real estate success

Human beings are a social species. We rely on communities to survive and thrive. Communities play an important role in every aspect of our lives. We have communities in our friends, families, workplaces, and so many other places. Being a part of a community can allow us to connect with like-minded people and become more successful. When it comes to real estate investment, a sense of community is more important than ever.

Think about the last time when you searched for a property. Did you ask your friends and colleagues for advice? Did you join relevant Facebook groups and forums to get more information? Have you ever experienced any difficulty in finding reliable information among the tons of threads? Nowadays, we live in a world where we are overloaded with information. Making informed decisions can be a challenge due to the real estate industry’s fragmented and complex nature.

Darren Wong, the co-founder of Denzity, experienced this struggle too. He has seen lots of misleading information and was unsure who to trust during his real estate exploration.

Buying a property is a huge investment. At the worst of all, people may lose their hard-earned savings by trusting ill-intentioned people! Because of this pain, Denzity is born. Darren and other co-founders share the same goal – make real estate participation simpler and more accessible for everyone. The platform sources reliable insights, news, and information directly from real estate experts. To put it in simple words, Denzity is a global community of industry experts.

The importance of community in real estate
Denzity is one of the hottest PropTech ventures in Hong Kong. It makes use of advanced technology to create a vibrant global community of real estate experts. It is a place of opportunity! With a community of experts looking out for your best interests and working together for a common goal, Denzity hopes to alleviate your struggles and drive your confidence to begin your real estate investment journey. Whether that is looking for your first home or starting your investment portfolio, a strong community can give the support you need to succeed. Breaking all the myths and misconceptions, Denzity provides sound insights, open dialogues, and peer-reviewed content from professional real estate agents, developers, world-class investors, advisors and more.

A strong community can also enrich your experience during your real estate exploration. The selling point of Denzity is its strong network. The team recruits a network of global experts to provide you with powerful insights and reliable sources to succeed in the world of real estate. There is no geographical boundary. You can find news and insights on different real estate hotspots such as Vietnam and Malaysia instantly through Denzity. Getting tired of all the serious and data-heavy information about real estate? You can also find interesting, unconventional topics in the field, such as feng shui and sustainability! This is why Denzity is special – people are at the centre of everything.

Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights – Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

In the previous episode, we covered many aspects regarding real estate market research. Today, Anthony will share his insights regarding a different segment: the Hong Kong industrial market and the emerging interest in data centres.

  • Data Centre: Rising Demand 
  • Converting Buildings Into Data Centre
  • Hong Kong Data Centre – the comparative advantage

▶ Connect with Anthony:

  • LinkedIn:

▶ Source & Supporting:

Data Center –

RVD statistics –

Buildings Digest –

Land Sale –


Data Centre: A data centre is an enclosed space where everything related to data is stored and handled inside a mass number of computers, devices through many servers and networks.

5G: 5G is the abbreviation for the 5th generation, which refers to the 5th generation of the mobile or cellular networks.

Land acquisition: It is the process by which the government can take over land or property that is privately owned and utilize it for other purposes, especially for public benefits.

Lease modification: It is the newly made changes in a lease that weren’t initially included in the agreement.

Trunking: Trunking is the method that is used to accumulate multiple networks into a single one.

Town Planning guidelines:

Power Supply: In simple words, it is an electrical device that supplies power.

Personal data ordinance:

Wholesale Conversion:



Grand Ming:

industrial revitalization 2.0:

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!


[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Darren Wong: [00:00:00] So Anthony, welcome back again.


[00:00:02] Anthony Wong: [00:00:02] Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It’s good to talk to you again, really.


[00:00:07] Darren Wong: [00:00:07] I mean, we do two shows and stuff like that.

[00:00:07]Darren Wong:[00:00:07]我是說,我們做兩個節目之類的。

[00:00:10] So the previously we’ve done a show just now about the research, for the audience who would be interested in learning how to do


[00:00:20] better research on locally or overseas investments. And then would you mind telling the audience who just jumped in without that context before about yourself? And then the episode before that,


[00:00:30] like, what’s that about?


[00:00:32] Anthony Wong: [00:00:32] So yeah, Hey, guys, everyone. If you haven’t checked out a video with Darren, please do check it out again. We talked about


[00:00:40] how to invest real estate proactively and in-depth. So once again, I’ll introduce myself, I’m Anthony Wong. I’m currently a research manager at Colliers


[00:00:50] International. I have an education background and real estate postgraduate degree, and have work experience in Greater China, US and now in Hong Kong. And I’m happy to give


[00:01:00] a little humble opinion about data centre, because this topic is really changing by the date. So really, can give out whatever I can take,


[00:01:10] and whatever I can get, and give my real estate research perspective on this topic, and pleasure to talk more about it.


[00:01:17] Darren Wong: [00:01:17] Yeah, and for the audience that didn’t check out

[00:01:17]Darren Wong:[00:01:17]是的,對於那些沒有退房的觀眾來說

[00:01:20] the resource episode with you, please check it out. Because I think is a very good way to understand what it takes to learn about different assets. And in terms of how to


[00:01:30] do research and everything like that. And then we decided to do a data centre episode, because it’s something that I mentioned in the previous episodes that a lot of my friends are looking into, it’s a very, very hot


[00:01:40] topic, it’s very exciting. So I’m just very happy that you’re able to be here and share with us. So let’s kickstart right away. Why is data centre segment become


[00:01:50] such a hot topic recently?


[00:01:53] Anthony Wong: [00:01:53] Yeah, I mean, data centre is becoming a hot topic, not just in APAC, but globally. I think it’s because of the

[00:01:53]Anthony Wong:[00:01:53] 是的,我的意思是,資料中心正在成為一個熱門話題,不僅在亞太地區,而且在全球範圍內。我想是因為

[00:02:00] global awareness that in the future, AI and technology and data usage is going to be a huge demand. And on top of that,


[00:02:10] starting even a couple years back, data centres is already a growing kind of real estate sectors and technology sector and APAC region.


[00:02:20] This year with the COVID-19, lots of people are staying home, and they’re starting to be aware of the the demand side of what are the technology they


[00:02:30] can make, use and make leverage up when being at home, working from home either entertainment or working. And also work from home,


[00:02:40] these technologies, how are they shaping their lifestyle, right? So from the management side of these data centres, and from the investment side, it’s really


[00:02:50] changing by the day. So it’s really complex topic. And it’s something real estate practitioners, a lot of them themselves are getting themselves adjusted


[00:03:00] to this sector. And as you know, TikTok just purchased a European data centre in Ireland yesterday, they’re going through a lot of US complications, but

[00:03:00]到這個區域。正如你所知,tick tock昨天剛剛在愛爾蘭購買了一個歐洲資料中心,他們正在經歷許多美國的複雜情况,但是

[00:03:10] they’re still investing quite a lot. And increasing cloud services, 5G implementation, a lot of


[00:03:20] companies and countries and regions are heavily dependent on this technology and will be for a lot of emerging economies. According some of the market projections,


[00:03:30] APAC will have about 13.5 billion network devices, connections by 2023. Now from 8.6 billion in 2018, so that’s 5


[00:03:40] billion of change. And also, the number of internet users will grow from 2018 2.1 billion to 3.1 billion in 2023. So


[00:03:50] the amount of data that’s related to that rusty said, was quite large, something that real estate practitioners who have to get into in the future.


[00:04:00] [00:04:00] Darren Wong: [00:04:00] Yeah. When I was three, four years ago, and then I’ve looked into it because of a friend of mine that was considering that, “hey,

[00:04:00][00:04:00]Darren Wong:[00:04:00]是的。當我三、四年前,因為我的一個朋友在考慮,“嘿,

[00:04:10] should I looking at data centre? Should I convert my building into data centre usage?”, which is coming in the next question, right? What are the requirements to convert a building


[00:04:20] to a data centre usage in Hong Kong, like in terms of like maybe floor loading, fire regulation and cooling? And at the same time is that, how many potential buildings can there be in Hong Kong to be converted?


[00:04:30] And lastly, always most important thing as an investor is that, what is the typical cost per square foot to be convert?


[00:04:40] [00:04:40] Anthony Wong: [00:04:40] Well, those are great questions, but I can’t comment too much on the prices, because it’s far fluctuating on different regions. So even if I give an average

[00:04:40][00:04:40]安東尼·王(Anthony Wong):[00:04:40]好吧,這些都是很好的問題,但我不能對價格做太多評論,因為不同地區的價格波動很大。所以即使我給出一個平均值

[00:04:50] price, it might not reflect the overall data centre market. With the new bredding prices, shocking, just purchased somewhere around, I would say, 4 billion


[00:05:00] Hong Kong dollars for a site in in ShaTin, for data centre site. So, to answer your question, really simply, there’s three ways for data centre,


[00:05:10] real estate usage. One is wholesale conversion; another is land acquisition. And then the last is lease


[00:05:20] modification. I think the easiest pathway would be wholesale conversion, which is simply really the change in the use of parts of its existing building.


[00:05:30] So for example, you have an industrial unit already, how do you convert it with the existing, for example, power lines that is necessitated


[00:05:40] into the unit? What are the location that’s not affecting adjacent surrounding uses. So for wholesale conversion, there’s usually no fee for waiving


[00:05:50] any conditions for the change of use. The data centre takes place in the existing building, which is typically according to the lands department and the


[00:06:00] government regulations has to be 15 years older. And the proposed building has to be zoning, industrial, commercial, and old use or other


[00:06:10] specified uses business quotation. So, this is the easiest way in terms of cost flights. So if you’re able to convert into data centre, good for


[00:06:20] you. You can probably change it and if you are in trunking well, which there’s a lot of trunk lines powered by supporting that location, then there’s a high probability of


[00:06:30] going through that wholesale conversion. Another thing is land acquisition, which is a government land that’s issued for sale for data center. And that


[00:06:40] is usually a shootout in the lands department. And so, it’s usually a government site and from a land sale programme, stipulating data centres that what type of


[00:06:50] uses back can the investors have the buyers are able to purchase and really


[00:07:00] depends what location it is and where it is too. And the last one is lease modification. As we develop, so for example, you have an old


[00:07:10] industrial building in Kwai Tsing, for example, which is really hot for data centres right now, how do you redevelop into higher data centres. There’s also regulations. So


[00:07:20] for example, the data centre portion of the redevelopment should be at least 40% assessed based on the


[00:07:30] overall GFA. And another consideration is that the redevelopment has to take place on industrial block. So really, you have to look


[00:07:40] through the Town Planning guidelines that outlines zoning plans, look in the land lease and see what the specifications. And as investor, most of all,


[00:07:50] you need to consider land premium. And that is subjective based on your location and what type of data centre you’re issuing. And what kind of company, are you an overseas


[00:08:00] company, local company? And how long are you proposing this development site for? So these are typically the three pathways to


[00:08:10] go about on data centres development.


[00:08:12] Darren Wong: [00:08:12] I see. I assume that the electrical power grid will affect the potential probability of it. Is there any

[00:08:12]Darren Wong:[00:08:12]我明白了。我假設電網會影響它的潜在概率。有嗎

[00:08:20] difference between, for example, the Hong Kong Island side and Kowloon side? And if so, is there any preference? Do companies normally do both or one of them?


[00:08:30] [00:08:30] Anthony Wong: [00:08:30] Yeah, that’s a good question. I’m not electrician, so I can’t comment the specifications of my research. I’ve read a


[00:08:40] lot about the macro side data centre, but digging down to the technicality, it’s a really complicated topic, which requires


[00:08:50] people with a substantial engineering background. So I’ll give you my two cents on it. I would say, in Hong Kong, really broadly, these principles are


[00:09:00] having reliable power supply. So for example, 99% reliability is really, really high. So specification, you can also look up into the guidelines


[00:09:10] from Hong Kong government website, and also the Hong Kong, low electricity cost is really what is attracting a lot of investors coming to Hong Kong,


[00:09:20] developing data centres, because the fact that Hong Kong is not only reliable, but these data centres are requiring huge amount of


[00:09:30] electricity usages on a daily basis. So you need to find locations that could support that, for example, you have to have a development that is on the trunk line, or the electricity line or power


[00:09:40] station that is able to support the data center development. Now having a lot of network connectivity, and Hong Kong is a good place, because its climate is relatively stable. So you


[00:09:50] don’t have really substantial typhoons that could tore down these electrical lines of buildings, though there is still risk out there. But we also don’t


[00:10:00] have the risk of earthquakes, such as Japan, such as some parts of Taiwan and places like that. So I think


[00:10:10] another thing of Hong Kong really that we talked about, and the Hong Kong data centre landscape is data protection, which is a lot of people are concerning, because the


[00:10:20] personal data ordinance, which is issued by the Hong Kong government protects personal data. And there’s a lot of controversy surrounding it because of the new NSL


[00:10:30] that’s coming in. But, this is still really, really attractive because of whether whatever happens, data is always going to be important, especially in a populated area,


[00:10:40] like South China, Hong Kong, Greater Bay Area. So I think it’s definitely, in terms of geographical region wise, [00:10:50] currently, I think Tseung Kwan O has a really good foundation for data centres because of its strong existing infrastructure.


[00:11:00] But you can look at emerging locations like Lok Ma Chau, Tuen Mun, that are actually gained attraction in terms of infrastructure building into the catering


[00:11:10] these data centres. So these will progressively be issued out by the government in terms of when these infrastructure could be built.


[00:11:18] Darren Wong: [00:11:18] I see. That’s very informative, by the way,

[00:11:18]Darren Wong:[00:11:18]我明白了。順便說一句,這信息量很大,

[00:11:20] thank you so much, because you cover a lot of ground: what’s most important about data centre, and why is there, and why isn’t there. So we talked about this before.


[00:11:30] Singapore and Guangzhou are very popular right now, where data centre type of assets, right? What’s the overall landscape in Asia? And how is Hong Kong positioned?


[00:11:40] And at the same time, who are the major players globally in the region?


[00:11:46] Anthony Wong: [00:11:46] Yeah, for sure. I think, to


[00:11:50] answer the global players first, you have Equinix, Global Switch, these are really, really large global companies. In Hong

[00:11:50]首先回答全球玩家,你有Econoks,global Switch,這些都是非常非常大的全球性公司。在香港

[00:12:00] Kong, you have Sunevision, which is owned by Sun Hung Kai, I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, but this Sunevision is a big


[00:12:10] data centre operator that supports a lot of high tech IOT stuff in Hong Kong. So these are the local market periods. You have


[00:12:20] Grand Ming as well, which is also a semi local market player. Hong Kong is well positioned geographically, because it’s close to


[00:12:30] China. And China requires a lot of, for example, international data transporting hub, and Hong Kong can act as an intermediary, just like a financial hub, because


[00:12:40] data in the future is going to worth a lot of money as well. So Hong Kong is geographically advantageous. But yes, it is competing with Singapore, as you talked about.


[00:12:50] Singapore is the gateway to Southeast Asia. And it has some advantages: robust data privacy regulation, arguably stronger than Hong Kong.


[00:13:00] But Hong Kong does have that geographical advantage. Singapore in some way does edge Hong Kong a little bit in terms of the internet speed,


[00:13:10] because they have existing a little more robust infrastructure. And also, Singapore has more lenient


[00:13:20] land supply towards the sector. So they’re more willing for the market players to bring in more investment, because they’re all given a lot of land. I think a


[00:13:30] shortage of land supply in Hong Kong can be a problem, and has been a problem in the past. But Hong Kong government and various other consulting agencies are foreseeing


[00:13:40] a new document issuing, you have heard about in the policy address budget report yesterday, that industrial revitalization 2.0, that is going to be


[00:13:50] a positive factor in terms of issuing more land for industrial and high tech and for these startups to prosper. So, yes, we are


[00:14:00] in a tricky platform. But I think once these conflicts, such as the US trade war, COVID,


[00:14:10] and everything settles down, I think Hong Kong will emerge even stronger because of the geographical location. And the existing strong infrastructure, as we mentioned about the


[00:14:20] electricity supply, the amount of human capital that can support this kind of industry.


[00:14:29] Darren Wong: [00:14:29] I see. That’s

[00:14:29]Darren Wong:[00:14:29]我明白了。那是

[00:14:30] interesting thinking about as grand scheme of thing, the geographical location, not only financial, it seems like even for the data side, the industrial side, it still have a


[00:14:40] benefit of it. And then I was planning to ask you more about the Guangzhou and Hong Kong relationship in terms of the data centre side. Would you mind to have some opinion on that?


[00:14:51] [00:14:50] Anthony Wong: [00:14:51] So Guangzhou and Hong Kong? Yeah, for sure. So, Hong Kong currently, in the north of Hong Kong, if you go through the


[00:15:00] border between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, there’s a place called Lok Ma Chau. So, not much always close to Hong Kong and Mainland China border, which is


[00:15:10] desirable for tech companies just across the border like Tencent, Baidu, Huawei, DJI, which is drone company. So there’s currently proposed 87


[00:15:20] hector of Hong Kong Shenzhen innovation and technology park at Lok Ma Chau, specifically catered towards R&D and technology, and startup incubators. So this kind of development will


[00:15:30] likely push even greater demand for data centres because of technology companies that are able to leverage upon Hong


[00:15:40] Kong because Tencent, we still don’t have a really popular usage of alipay and WeChat Pay in Hong Kong, we’re still relying on HSBC payme, right?


[00:15:50] So, when I was working in China, all these financial payment platforms, almost no one uses


[00:16:00] cash anymore. If you even go to rural areas, everyone except WeChat Pay, so you can tell how much of that financial data is really valuable and how much in relation back to data centres,


[00:16:10] how much that is indeed in need. And I would say another place in Hong Kong, not bordering China is


[00:16:20] Tuen Mun. It is a very strategic location, the link between Chek Lap Kok and Tuen Mun that is supposed to be completed in 2020. This will create a lot of long term


[00:16:30] development opportunities, giving a lot more opportunities, long term growth, because it’s close to the airport, which is an International Airport. So


[00:16:40] anywhere of these transportation hubs like borders and places with strong trunk lines and safe places


[00:16:50] in terms of geographically safe, stable climate wise, it’s a good place, and Hong Kong is at the right place of having that geographical


[00:17:00] and infrastructure advantage.


[00:17:01] Darren Wong: [00:17:01] I see. So what are typical yield on data centre compared to traditional industrial building? And how long the lease contract and

[00:17:01]Darren Wong:[00:17:01]我明白了。那麼,與傳統工業建築相比,資料中心的典型收益率是多少?租賃合同和

[00:17:10] operators are typical for? Lastly, what’s the trend over on the demand for data centre in those regard? And do you think that the next 5 to 10 years,


[00:17:20] it’s going to be good? What would you think of that?


[00:17:24] Anthony Wong: [00:17:24] Yeah, so the yield of the data centre is it’s about

[00:17:24]Anthony Wong:[00:17:24]是的,所以資料中心的收益是

[00:17:30] traditionally, it’s been about three 3.5%. It’s approaching 4%, because rents are really leveraging itself, which the yield is actually higher than


[00:17:40] grade A offices in Hong Kong, which is about a high 2%. So it makes an attractive investment, because we can have greater returns and


[00:17:50] typically more stable yields. Because usually, these contracts of the data centres, the leases range from 8 to 10 years or more, because you


[00:18:00] have really expensive equipment being shipped into these sites, right? So these racks, and usually these leases are longer because you want to protect these equipment


[00:18:10] longer and able to operate longer in a specific location and move to a different location, and there might be a lot of problem as well. So usually typical


[00:18:20] tenants like to stay in a data center longer. So that creates more of a stable yield, not just high yield, stable but high yield. And rents have been progressively going up, for


[00:18:30] example, this year, year-on-year has already gone up 5 to 10%, and depending on which region, right? So it is exciting. To answer where is the demand or where is the future trend going? There’s a lot of trend that is propelling the sector. And when you look at the COVID induced remote office solutions, and cloud computing, a lot of companies are willing for the employee to work from home or


[00:18:40] on


[00:18:50] a rotational basis. I think Hong


[00:19:00] Kong, work from home is not going to be as impacted. For example, that notion is not going to come back. But for example.


[00:19:10] Places like San Francisco, which is tech, and in some places, you’re gonna drive an hour to your office. In Hong Kong, transportation still really convenient. So remote


[00:19:20] solutions in other areas that requires more working, transporting time will be really, really useful.


[00:19:30] As we talked about the MNC corporates and these high tech companies will obviously be at the forefront of


[00:19:40] driving this data centre use because of their data data demand. Another thing is online and retail e-commerce that’s been going on in 5 to


[00:19:50] 20 years almost, since Amazon came in and I think consumer demand is increasing and shifting towards online shopping. And retail should invest in online shopping


[00:20:00] platforms, and enhancing, for example, different distribution strategies. And these kind of online shopping requires a lot of


[00:20:10] data use as well. And data centre creates a really kind of roadmap for these different online shops can, as an intermediary, to give information for


[00:20:20] consumers and the owners themselves. And last but most, I think, data centre, it is emerging. But even further than


[00:20:30] that, there has to be more of a green and sustainable data centre development coming into play. As you know, data centre, as we talked


[00:20:40] about previously, data centres is really energy intensive. It provides a lot of power, and it consume a lot of energy. So


[00:20:50] the large operators, actually right now, like international operators, like Equinix, Equinix, has actually adopted renewable practice by using


[00:21:00] a lot of their electricity supply from renewable energies like solar power, wind power. They actually committed and a lot of companies will be


[00:21:10] following that, especially with the ESG and the post-COVID trend of environmental awareness, these companies are actually trying to achieve the 100%


[00:21:20] efficiency in terms of renewable energy. On top of that, you have a really great policy platform, such as the UN 2030


[00:21:30] sustainable agenda, ESG guidelines, as we talked about, which will even push these companies to go for renewable energy that is sustaining data centres. So I see


[00:21:40] this as a future pathway and how data centre is developed.


[00:21:44] Darren Wong: [00:21:44] And that’s very, very good. I think that’s a very good way to

[00:21:44]Darren Wong:[00:21:44]非常非常好。我覺得這是個很好的方法

[00:21:50] summarise too. There’s so many questions popping up in my head right away, but I’ll leave it for asking you on your profile and for Denzity profile and everything and more and more. And then so for people who might


[00:22:00] want to know more about this segment and the previous episode of research and so on, what are couple ways that people can find you, know more about you and your work?


[00:22:09] Anthony Wong: [00:22:09] Yeah,


[00:22:10] for sure. So, we have published a data centre report in April so even go on google and type in data centre, future landscape data centre


[00:22:20] specifically and you type it in and type in Colliers International. We actually did a 14-page report specifically analysing locally based in Hong Kong, where to invest in data


[00:22:30] centre. We have a strong research and evaluation team, if you’re more interested and have investment thoughts or just curious about this


[00:22:40] sector, feel free to just take a look at the document or reach me out, or reach our company, some of the representative. But my email is


[00:22:50] Make use of those reports and give you a perspective on where our data centres moving towards. And then we give a lot of insights, how not only Hong Kong itself and how our


[00:23:00] international forces like we talked about Singapore, how are we competing with our competitors? So, do feel free to reach out via my email address


[00:23:10] or take a look at our reports.

[00:23:10] 或者看看我們的報告。

[00:23:13] Darren Wong: [00:23:13] That’s great. Obviously, as I said before, I’ll have everything in the show notes. And I want to say thank you so much. Thanks for sharing

[00:23:13]Darren Wong:[00:23:13]太好了。很明顯,就像我之前說的,我會把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記裏。我非常感謝你。謝謝分享

[00:23:20] with us. And then I, even myself personally, I learned a lot through your sharing. And then hopefully, you can come back for round two, because, just alone, I’m sure if I come to the next


[00:23:30] segment, let’s say, in the future maybe retail or office or anything big changes, your one of the first person I’ll talk to see, hey, Anthony, just come on board, round two again. So thanks


[00:23:40] a lot for your time and effort. Because it’s something that like I care about is that people know more about what’s going on, and niche market that data centre, industrial, different sections of it,


[00:23:50] too. We can cover that in the future. So thanks a lot again.


[00:23:52] Anthony Wong: [00:23:52] Yeah, for sure. It’s my pleasure. This sector is changing quite a lot. So for sure, the next time we chat about it, we’re going to see new


[00:24:00] exciting things coming in, for example, the transaction by TikTok, yesterday, it was quite exciting. So it’s a very exciting topic to talk about. And thanks for having me here. For sure.


[00:24:09] Darren Wong: [00:24:09] Okay,

[00:24:09]Darren Wong:[00:24:09]好的,

[00:24:10] thank you. See you next time, then. Thank you.


[00:24:12] Anthony Wong: [00:24:12] Yeah, for sure, have a good one. Take care. Bye bye.


[00:24:14] Darren Wong: [00:24:14] Bye.

[00:24:14]Darren Wong:[00:24:14]再見。