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Denzity Insights – Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

Data Centre: Rising Demand (Hong Kong & Asia) with Anthony Wong

In the previous episode, we covered many aspects regarding real estate market research. Today, Anthony will share his insights regarding a different segment: the Hong Kong industrial market and the emerging interest in data centres.

  • Data Centre: Rising Demand 
  • Converting Buildings Into Data Centre
  • Hong Kong Data Centre – the comparative advantage

▶ Connect with Anthony:

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-wong-8ba67080/

▶ Source & Supporting:

Data Center – https://www2.colliers.com/en-HK/Research/Colliers-Radar-The-future-landscape-of-the-Hong-Kong-data-centre-market

RVD statistics – https://www.rvd.gov.hk/en/property_market_statistics/index.html

Buildings Digest – https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/whats-new/monthly-digests/index.html

Land Sale – https://www.landsd.gov.hk/en/landsale/index.htm

RCA – https://www.rcanalytics.com/

Data Centre: A data centre is an enclosed space where everything related to data is stored and handled inside a mass number of computers, devices through many servers and networks.

https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberpedia/what-is-a-data-center

5G: 5G is the abbreviation for the 5th generation, which refers to the 5th generation of the mobile or cellular networks.

https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/5g/what-is-5g

Land acquisition: It is the process by which the government can take over land or property that is privately owned and utilize it for other purposes, especially for public benefits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUtV3lo6Lg

Lease modification: It is the newly made changes in a lease that weren’t initially included in the agreement.

https://xplaind.com/510063/lease-modifications

Trunking: Trunking is the method that is used to accumulate multiple networks into a single one.

Town Planning guidelines:

https://www.info.gov.hk/tpb/en/forms/guideline.html

Power Supply: In simple words, it is an electrical device that supplies power.

Personal data ordinance: https://www.pcpd.org.hk/english/data_privacy_law/ordinance_at_a_Glance/ordinance.html

Wholesale Conversion: https://wholesaleconversion.com

Equinix: https://www.equinix.com

Sunevision: https://www.sunevision.com

Grand Ming: http://www.grandming.com.hk/cht/

industrial revitalization 2.0: https://www.landsd.gov.hk/en/reIntBuild/index.htm

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Darren Wong: [00:00:00] So Anthony, welcome back again.

王達倫:【00:00:00】【00:00:00】安東尼,歡迎再次光臨。

[00:00:02] Anthony Wong: [00:00:02] Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It’s good to talk to you again, really.

[00:00:02]安東尼·王:[00:00:02]好的,謝謝。謝謝您。很高興再次和你交談,真的。

[00:00:07] Darren Wong: [00:00:07] I mean, we do two shows and stuff like that.

[00:00:07]Darren Wong:[00:00:07]我是說,我們做兩個節目之類的。

[00:00:10] So the previously we’ve done a show just now about the research, for the audience who would be interested in learning how to do

[00:00:10]所以我們剛才做了一個關於這個研究的節目,給那些有興趣學習如何做的觀眾

[00:00:20] better research on locally or overseas investments. And then would you mind telling the audience who just jumped in without that context before about yourself? And then the episode before that,

[00:00:20]更好地研究本地或海外投資。那麼,你能告訴那些在沒有背景的情况下跳進來的觀眾關於你自己的事嗎?然後是之前的那一集,

[00:00:30] like, what’s that about?

[00:00:30]比如,這是怎麼回事?

[00:00:32] Anthony Wong: [00:00:32] So yeah, Hey, guys, everyone. If you haven’t checked out a video with Darren, please do check it out again. We talked about

[00:00:32]安東尼·王:[00:00:32]所以是的,嘿,各位。如果你還沒有和達倫一起看視頻,請再看一遍。我們談過

[00:00:40] how to invest real estate proactively and in-depth. So once again, I’ll introduce myself, I’m Anthony Wong. I’m currently a research manager at Colliers

[00:00:40]如何積極深入地投資房地產。所以,我再次自我介紹一下,我是黃東東。我現在是高力的研究經理

[00:00:50] International. I have an education background and real estate postgraduate degree, and have work experience in Greater China, US and now in Hong Kong. And I’m happy to give

[00:00:50]國際。我有教育背景和房地產研究生學位,有大中華區、美國和香港的工作經驗。我很樂意付出

[00:01:00] a little humble opinion about data centre, because this topic is really changing by the date. So really, can give out whatever I can take,

[00:01:00]對資料中心有一點謙虛的看法,因為這個話題確實會隨著日期而改變。所以真的,我能拿什麼就給什麼,

[00:01:10] and whatever I can get, and give my real estate research perspective on this topic, and pleasure to talk more about it.

[00:01:10]以及我能得到的任何東西,並給出我對這個主題的房地產研究的觀點,以及如何才能更愉快地談論它。

[00:01:17] Darren Wong: [00:01:17] Yeah, and for the audience that didn’t check out

[00:01:17]Darren Wong:[00:01:17]是的,對於那些沒有退房的觀眾來說

[00:01:20] the resource episode with you, please check it out. Because I think is a very good way to understand what it takes to learn about different assets. And in terms of how to

[00:01:20]資源集和你一起,請看一下。因為我認為這是一個很好的方法來瞭解瞭解不同的資產需要什麼。以及如何

[00:01:30] do research and everything like that. And then we decided to do a data centre episode, because it’s something that I mentioned in the previous episodes that a lot of my friends are looking into, it’s a very, very hot

[00:01:30]做研究之類的。然後我們决定做一個資料中心的插曲,因為這是我在前幾集裏提到的,我的很多朋友都在關注它,這是一個非常非常熱門的話題

[00:01:40] topic, it’s very exciting. So I’m just very happy that you’re able to be here and share with us. So let’s kickstart right away. Why is data centre segment become

[00:01:40]主題,非常激動人心。所以我很高興你能來這裡和我們分享。所以我們馬上開始吧。資料中心細分市場為何成為

[00:01:50] such a hot topic recently?

[00:01:50]最近這麼熱門的話題?

[00:01:53] Anthony Wong: [00:01:53] Yeah, I mean, data centre is becoming a hot topic, not just in APAC, but globally. I think it’s because of the

[00:01:53]Anthony Wong:[00:01:53] 是的,我的意思是,資料中心正在成為一個熱門話題,不僅在亞太地區,而且在全球範圍內。我想是因為

[00:02:00] global awareness that in the future, AI and technology and data usage is going to be a huge demand. And on top of that,

[00:02:00]全球意識到,在未來,人工智慧、科技和數據使用將是一個巨大的需求。除此之外,

[00:02:10] starting even a couple years back, data centres is already a growing kind of real estate sectors and technology sector and APAC region.

[00:02:10]從幾年前開始,資料中心已經是一個不斷增長的房地產行業、科技部門和亞太地區。

[00:02:20] This year with the COVID-19, lots of people are staying home, and they’re starting to be aware of the the demand side of what are the technology they

[00:02:20]今年有了COVID-19,很多人都待在家裡,他們開始意識到他們所使用的科技的需求方面

[00:02:30] can make, use and make leverage up when being at home, working from home either entertainment or working. And also work from home,

[00:02:30]在家、在家工作時,無論是娛樂還是工作,都可以發揮、利用和發揮杠杆作用。也在家工作,

[00:02:40] these technologies, how are they shaping their lifestyle, right? So from the management side of these data centres, and from the investment side, it’s really

[00:02:40]這些科技如何塑造他們的生活方式,對吧?囙此,從這些資料中心的管理方面,從投資方面來看

[00:02:50] changing by the day. So it’s really complex topic. And it’s something real estate practitioners, a lot of them themselves are getting themselves adjusted

[00:02:50]每天都在變化。所以這是一個非常複雜的話題。而這是房地產從業者,很多人自己也在調整自己

[00:03:00] to this sector. And as you know, TikTok just purchased a European data centre in Ireland yesterday, they’re going through a lot of US complications, but

[00:03:00]到這個區域。正如你所知,tick tock昨天剛剛在愛爾蘭購買了一個歐洲資料中心,他們正在經歷許多美國的複雜情况,但是

[00:03:10] they’re still investing quite a lot. And increasing cloud services, 5G implementation, a lot of

[00:03:10]他們仍在大量投資。以及不斷增加的雲服務,五張紙的實現,很多

[00:03:20] companies and countries and regions are heavily dependent on this technology and will be for a lot of emerging economies. According some of the market projections,

[00:03:20]企業、國家和地區對這項科技的依賴程度很高,很多新興經濟體也會如此。根據一些市場預測,

[00:03:30] APAC will have about 13.5 billion network devices, connections by 2023. Now from 8.6 billion in 2018, so that’s 5

[00:03:30]到2023年,亞太地區將擁有約135億臺網路設備和連接。現在是2018年的86億,所以是5

[00:03:40] billion of change. And also, the number of internet users will grow from 2018 2.1 billion to 3.1 billion in 2023. So

[00:03:40]十億的變化。互聯網用戶數量也將從2018年的21億增長到2023年的31億。所以

[00:03:50] the amount of data that’s related to that rusty said, was quite large, something that real estate practitioners who have to get into in the future.

[00:03:50]與rusty所說的相關的數據量相當大,這是房地產從業者今後必須涉足的領域。

[00:04:00] [00:04:00] Darren Wong: [00:04:00] Yeah. When I was three, four years ago, and then I’ve looked into it because of a friend of mine that was considering that, “hey,

[00:04:00][00:04:00]Darren Wong:[00:04:00]是的。當我三、四年前,因為我的一個朋友在考慮,“嘿,

[00:04:10] should I looking at data centre? Should I convert my building into data centre usage?”, which is coming in the next question, right? What are the requirements to convert a building

[00:04:10]我應該看看資料中心嗎?我是否應該將我的建築轉換為資料中心用途?”,下一秒也會來,對吧?改建建築物需要什麼條件

[00:04:20] to a data centre usage in Hong Kong, like in terms of like maybe floor loading, fire regulation and cooling? And at the same time is that, how many potential buildings can there be in Hong Kong to be converted?

[00:04:20]在香港的資料中心使用情况,比如地板荷載、消防調節和冷卻?同時,香港還有多少潜在的建築需要改造?

[00:04:30] And lastly, always most important thing as an investor is that, what is the typical cost per square foot to be convert?

[00:04:30]最後,作為一個投資者,最重要的是,每平方英尺的轉換成本是多少?

[00:04:40] [00:04:40] Anthony Wong: [00:04:40] Well, those are great questions, but I can’t comment too much on the prices, because it’s far fluctuating on different regions. So even if I give an average

[00:04:40][00:04:40]安東尼·王(Anthony Wong):[00:04:40]好吧,這些都是很好的問題,但我不能對價格做太多評論,因為不同地區的價格波動很大。所以即使我給出一個平均值

[00:04:50] price, it might not reflect the overall data centre market. With the new bredding prices, shocking, just purchased somewhere around, I would say, 4 billion

[00:04:50]價格,可能無法反映整個資料中心市場。以新的釀造價格,令人震驚,剛剛購買了大約40億

[00:05:00] Hong Kong dollars for a site in in ShaTin, for data centre site. So, to answer your question, really simply, there’s three ways for data centre,

[00:05:00]沙田語音站、資料中心站用港幣。所以回答你的問題,其實很簡單,資料中心有三種方法,

[00:05:10] real estate usage. One is wholesale conversion; another is land acquisition. And then the last is lease

[00:05:10]房地產使用。一種是批發轉化,另一種是土地徵用。最後一個是租賃

[00:05:20] modification. I think the easiest pathway would be wholesale conversion, which is simply really the change in the use of parts of its existing building.

[00:05:20]修改。我認為最簡單的方法是大規模改造,這實際上就是改變現有建築的部分用途。

[00:05:30] So for example, you have an industrial unit already, how do you convert it with the existing, for example, power lines that is necessitated

[00:05:30]例如,你已經有了一個工業組織,你如何將它與現有的,例如,必要的電力線進行轉換

[00:05:40] into the unit? What are the location that’s not affecting adjacent surrounding uses. So for wholesale conversion, there’s usually no fee for waiving

[00:05:40]進入單元?什麼地方不影響周圍的使用。所以對於批量轉換,通常不需要付費

[00:05:50] any conditions for the change of use. The data centre takes place in the existing building, which is typically according to the lands department and the

[00:05:50]任何改變用途的條件。資料中心位於現有建築物內,通常根據地政總署和

[00:06:00] government regulations has to be 15 years older. And the proposed building has to be zoning, industrial, commercial, and old use or other

[00:06:00]政府法規必須是15年前的法規。而且擬建的建築必須分區,工業、商業、舊用或其他用途

[00:06:10] specified uses business quotation. So, this is the easiest way in terms of cost flights. So if you’re able to convert into data centre, good for

[00:06:10]指定用途商業報價。所以這是最簡單的方法在成本班機。所以如果你能轉換成資料中心

[00:06:20] you. You can probably change it and if you are in trunking well, which there’s a lot of trunk lines powered by supporting that location, then there’s a high probability of

[00:06:20]你。你可以改變它,如果你是在中繼,有很多中繼線支持這個位置,那麼很有可能

[00:06:30] going through that wholesale conversion. Another thing is land acquisition, which is a government land that’s issued for sale for data center. And that

[00:06:30]進行大規模轉換。另一件事是土地徵用,這是政府為資料中心發行的土地。還有那個

[00:06:40] is usually a shootout in the lands department. And so, it’s usually a government site and from a land sale programme, stipulating data centres that what type of

[00:06:40]通常是地政總署的槍戰。所以通常是政府網站和土地出售計畫,規定資料中心

[00:06:50] uses back can the investors have the buyers are able to purchase and really

[00:06:50]使用回饋能讓投資者有買家購買,而且真的嗎

[00:07:00] depends what location it is and where it is too. And the last one is lease modification. As we develop, so for example, you have an old

[00:07:00]取決於它的位置和位置。最後一個是租賃變更。隨著我們的發展,例如,你有一個

[00:07:10] industrial building in Kwai Tsing, for example, which is really hot for data centres right now, how do you redevelop into higher data centres. There’s also regulations. So

[00:07:10]以葵青的工業塔樓為例,它現在對資料中心來說真的很熱門,你如何重新發展成更高的資料中心。也有規定。所以

[00:07:20] for example, the data centre portion of the redevelopment should be at least 40% assessed based on the

[00:07:20]例如,重新開發的資料中心部分應根據

[00:07:30] overall GFA. And another consideration is that the redevelopment has to take place on industrial block. So really, you have to look

[00:07:30]總建築面積。另一個考慮是,重建必須在工業區進行。所以說真的,你得看看

[00:07:40] through the Town Planning guidelines that outlines zoning plans, look in the land lease and see what the specifications. And as investor, most of all,

[00:07:40]通過概述分區計畫的城鎮規劃指南,查看土地租約,看看有什麼規範。作為投資者,最重要的是,

[00:07:50] you need to consider land premium. And that is subjective based on your location and what type of data centre you’re issuing. And what kind of company, are you an overseas

[00:07:50]您需要考慮土地溢價。這是主觀的,取決於你的位置和你發佈的資料中心的類型。什麼樣的公司,你是海外公司嗎

[00:08:00] company, local company? And how long are you proposing this development site for? So these are typically the three pathways to

[00:08:00]公司,當地公司?你打算把這個開發點建多久?所以這是典型的三種途徑

[00:08:10] go about on data centres development.

[00:08:10]繼續進行資料中心開發。

[00:08:12] Darren Wong: [00:08:12] I see. I assume that the electrical power grid will affect the potential probability of it. Is there any

[00:08:12]Darren Wong:[00:08:12]我明白了。我假設電網會影響它的潜在概率。有嗎

[00:08:20] difference between, for example, the Hong Kong Island side and Kowloon side? And if so, is there any preference? Do companies normally do both or one of them?

[00:08:20]例如,香港島和九龍區之間的區別?如果是這樣的話,有什麼偏好嗎?公司通常是兩者兼而有之還是其中之一?

[00:08:30] [00:08:30] Anthony Wong: [00:08:30] Yeah, that’s a good question. I’m not electrician, so I can’t comment the specifications of my research. I’ve read a

[00:08:30][00:08:30]安東尼·王:[00:08:30]是的,這是個好問題。我不是電工,所以我不能對我的研究成果發表評論。我讀過

[00:08:40] lot about the macro side data centre, but digging down to the technicality, it’s a really complicated topic, which requires

[00:08:40]關於宏觀方面的資料中心,但深入到科技層面,這是一個非常複雜的主題,需要

[00:08:50] people with a substantial engineering background. So I’ll give you my two cents on it. I would say, in Hong Kong, really broadly, these principles are

[00:08:50]具有豐富工程背景的人。所以我給你兩分錢。我想說,在香港,從廣義上講,這些原則是

[00:09:00] having reliable power supply. So for example, 99% reliability is really, really high. So specification, you can also look up into the guidelines

[00:09:00]電源可靠。例如,99%的可靠性非常非常高。所以規範,你也可以查一下指南

[00:09:10] from Hong Kong government website, and also the Hong Kong, low electricity cost is really what is attracting a lot of investors coming to Hong Kong,

[00:09:10]從香港政府網站以及香港來看,低成本的電力正是吸引眾多投資者來港投資的真正原因,

[00:09:20] developing data centres, because the fact that Hong Kong is not only reliable, but these data centres are requiring huge amount of

[00:09:20]發展資料中心,因為香港不僅可靠,而且這些資料中心需要大量

[00:09:30] electricity usages on a daily basis. So you need to find locations that could support that, for example, you have to have a development that is on the trunk line, or the electricity line or power

[00:09:30]每日用電量。所以你需要找到可以支持它的位置,例如,你必須有一個在骨幹上的開發,或者電力線或電力線

[00:09:40] station that is able to support the data center development. Now having a lot of network connectivity, and Hong Kong is a good place, because its climate is relatively stable. So you

[00:09:40]能够支持資料中心開發的工作站。現在有很多網絡連接,香港是個好地方,因為它的氣候相對穩定。所以你呢

[00:09:50] don’t have really substantial typhoons that could tore down these electrical lines of buildings, though there is still risk out there. But we also don’t

[00:09:50]雖然仍然存在風險,但沒有真正的颱風會摧毀這些建築物的電線。但我們也沒有

[00:10:00] have the risk of earthquakes, such as Japan, such as some parts of Taiwan and places like that. So I think

[00:10:00]有地震的危險,比如日本,比如臺灣的一些地方和類似的地方。所以我想

[00:10:10] another thing of Hong Kong really that we talked about, and the Hong Kong data centre landscape is data protection, which is a lot of people are concerning, because the

[00:10:10]我們還談到了香港的另一件事,香港資料中心的前景是數據保護,這是很多人關心的,因為

[00:10:20] personal data ordinance, which is issued by the Hong Kong government protects personal data. And there’s a lot of controversy surrounding it because of the new NSL

[00:10:20]香港政府頒佈的《個人資料條例》保護個人資料。因為新的NSL,圍繞它有很多爭議

[00:10:30] that’s coming in. But, this is still really, really attractive because of whether whatever happens, data is always going to be important, especially in a populated area,

[00:10:30]那就來了。尤其是在這個地區,無論數據是否真的很有吸引力,

[00:10:40] like South China, Hong Kong, Greater Bay Area. So I think it’s definitely, in terms of geographical region wise, [00:10:50] currently, I think Tseung Kwan O has a really good foundation for data centres because of its strong existing infrastructure.

[00:10:40]比如華南、香港、大灣區。所以我認為,就地理區域而言,[00:10:50]目前來看,將軍澳擁有一個非常好的資料中心基礎,因為它有强大的現有基礎設施。

[00:11:00] But you can look at emerging locations like Lok Ma Chau, Tuen Mun, that are actually gained attraction in terms of infrastructure building into the catering

[00:11:00]但你可以看看像落馬洲、屯門這樣的新興地方,它們在餐飲業的基礎設施建設方面確實吸引了不少人

[00:11:10] these data centres. So these will progressively be issued out by the government in terms of when these infrastructure could be built.

[00:11:10]這些資料中心。囙此,政府將逐步公佈這些基礎設施的建設時間。

[00:11:18] Darren Wong: [00:11:18] I see. That’s very informative, by the way,

[00:11:18]Darren Wong:[00:11:18]我明白了。順便說一句,這信息量很大,

[00:11:20] thank you so much, because you cover a lot of ground: what’s most important about data centre, and why is there, and why isn’t there. So we talked about this before.

[00:11:20]非常感謝您,因為您涵蓋了很多領域:資料中心最重要的是什麼,為什麼有,為什麼沒有。所以我們之前談過這個。

[00:11:30] Singapore and Guangzhou are very popular right now, where data centre type of assets, right? What’s the overall landscape in Asia? And how is Hong Kong positioned?

[00:11:30]新加坡和廣州現在很受歡迎,資料中心類型的資產在哪裡?亞洲的整體情况如何?香港的定位如何?

[00:11:40] And at the same time, who are the major players globally in the region?

[00:11:40]同時,誰是該地區全球的主要參與者?

[00:11:46] Anthony Wong: [00:11:46] Yeah, for sure. I think, to

[00:11:46]安東尼·王:[00:11:46]是的,當然。我想,為了

[00:11:50] answer the global players first, you have Equinix, Global Switch, these are really, really large global companies. In Hong

[00:11:50]首先回答全球玩家,你有Econoks,global Switch,這些都是非常非常大的全球性公司。在香港

[00:12:00] Kong, you have Sunevision, which is owned by Sun Hung Kai, I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, but this Sunevision is a big

[00:12:00]孔,你有派遣部,是新鴻基的,我想如果我錯了,請糾正我,但是這個派遣部是一個很大的部門

[00:12:10] data centre operator that supports a lot of high tech IOT stuff in Hong Kong. So these are the local market periods. You have

[00:12:10]資料中心運營商,支持香港大量高科技物聯網。所以現在是本地市場時期。你有

[00:12:20] Grand Ming as well, which is also a semi local market player. Hong Kong is well positioned geographically, because it’s close to

[00:12:20]大明也是一家半本地市場參與者。香港地理位置優越,因為它靠近

[00:12:30] China. And China requires a lot of, for example, international data transporting hub, and Hong Kong can act as an intermediary, just like a financial hub, because

[00:12:30]中國。中國需要很多,例如國際資料傳輸中心,而香港可以充當仲介,就像金融中心一樣,因為

[00:12:40] data in the future is going to worth a lot of money as well. So Hong Kong is geographically advantageous. But yes, it is competing with Singapore, as you talked about.

[00:12:40]未來的數據也會值很多錢。囙此,香港的地理位置優越。但是的,正如你所說的,它正在與新加坡競爭。

[00:12:50] Singapore is the gateway to Southeast Asia. And it has some advantages: robust data privacy regulation, arguably stronger than Hong Kong.

[00:12:50]新加坡是通往東南亞的門戶。它也有一些優勢:强有力的數據隱私監管,可以說比香港强。

[00:13:00] But Hong Kong does have that geographical advantage. Singapore in some way does edge Hong Kong a little bit in terms of the internet speed,

[00:13:00]但香港確實有這樣的地理優勢。在網速方面,新加坡在某種程度上確實比香港略勝一籌,

[00:13:10] because they have existing a little more robust infrastructure. And also, Singapore has more lenient

[00:13:10]因為他們有更强大的基礎設施。同時,新加坡也更加寬容

[00:13:20] land supply towards the sector. So they’re more willing for the market players to bring in more investment, because they’re all given a lot of land. I think a

[00:13:20]部門土地供應。所以他們更願意讓市場參與者帶來更多的投資,因為他們都得到了很多土地。我認為

[00:13:30] shortage of land supply in Hong Kong can be a problem, and has been a problem in the past. But Hong Kong government and various other consulting agencies are foreseeing

[00:13:30]香港土地供應不足可能是一個問題,過去也是一個問題。但香港政府和其他各種諮詢機構都預見到了這一點

[00:13:40] a new document issuing, you have heard about in the policy address budget report yesterday, that industrial revitalization 2.0, that is going to be

[00:13:40]你們昨天在施政報告預算報告中聽說了一個新檔案,那就是工業振興2.0

[00:13:50] a positive factor in terms of issuing more land for industrial and high tech and for these startups to prosper. So, yes, we are

[00:13:50]這是一個積極因素,有助於為工業和高科技以及這些初創企業提供更多的土地。所以,是的,我們是

[00:14:00] in a tricky platform. But I think once these conflicts, such as the US trade war, COVID,

[00:14:00]在一個棘手的平臺上。但我認為一旦這些衝突,比如美國貿易戰,科維德,

[00:14:10] and everything settles down, I think Hong Kong will emerge even stronger because of the geographical location. And the existing strong infrastructure, as we mentioned about the

[00:14:10]一切都安定下來了,我認為香港會因為地理位置而變得更加强大。以及現有强大的基礎設施,正如我們提到的

[00:14:20] electricity supply, the amount of human capital that can support this kind of industry.

[00:14:20]電力供應,能够支撐這類產業的人力資本數量。

[00:14:29] Darren Wong: [00:14:29] I see. That’s

[00:14:29]Darren Wong:[00:14:29]我明白了。那是

[00:14:30] interesting thinking about as grand scheme of thing, the geographical location, not only financial, it seems like even for the data side, the industrial side, it still have a

[00:14:30]有趣的是,作為一個宏大的計畫,地理位置,不僅是金融,似乎即使對於數據方面,工業方面,它仍然有一個

[00:14:40] benefit of it. And then I was planning to ask you more about the Guangzhou and Hong Kong relationship in terms of the data centre side. Would you mind to have some opinion on that?

[14:40]的好處。然後我打算問你更多關於廣州和香港在資料中心方面的關係。你介意對那件事發表意見嗎?

[00:14:51] [00:14:50] Anthony Wong: [00:14:51] So Guangzhou and Hong Kong? Yeah, for sure. So, Hong Kong currently, in the north of Hong Kong, if you go through the

[00:14:51][00:14:50]安東尼·王:[00:14:51]那麼廣州和香港?是的,當然。所以,現在的香港,在香港的北部,如果你經過

[00:15:00] border between Hong Kong and Shenzhen, there’s a place called Lok Ma Chau. So, not much always close to Hong Kong and Mainland China border, which is

[00:15:00]香港和深圳交界處,有一個地方叫落馬洲。所以,不太經常靠近香港和中國大陸的邊界

[00:15:10] desirable for tech companies just across the border like Tencent, Baidu, Huawei, DJI, which is drone company. So there’s currently proposed 87

[00:15:10]對於像騰訊(Tencent)、百度(Baidu)、華為(Huawei)、DJI(無人機公司)這樣的跨國科技公司來說,是個不錯的選擇。所以現在有人提議87

[00:15:20] hector of Hong Kong Shenzhen innovation and technology park at Lok Ma Chau, specifically catered towards R&D and technology, and startup incubators. So this kind of development will

[00:15:20]位於落馬洲的港深創新科技園,專門為研發和科技以及創業孵化器提供服務。所以這種發展會

[00:15:30] likely push even greater demand for data centres because of technology companies that are able to leverage upon Hong

[00:15:30]由於能够利用Hong的科技公司,可能會推動對資料中心的更大需求

[00:15:40] Kong because Tencent, we still don’t have a really popular usage of alipay and WeChat Pay in Hong Kong, we’re still relying on HSBC payme, right?

[00:15:40]香港因為騰訊,我們在香港還沒有真正流行的支付寶和微信支付,我們仍然依賴滙豐支付,對嗎?

[00:15:50] So, when I was working in China, all these financial payment platforms, almost no one uses

[00:15:50]所以,我在中國工作的時候,所有這些金融支付平臺,幾乎沒有人使用

[00:16:00] cash anymore. If you even go to rural areas, everyone except WeChat Pay, so you can tell how much of that financial data is really valuable and how much in relation back to data centres,

[00:16:00]現金。如果你去農村地區,除了微信,其他人都會付費,這樣你就可以知道這些金融數據中有多少是真正有價值的,以及有多少與資料中心有關,

[00:16:10] how much that is indeed in need. And I would say another place in Hong Kong, not bordering China is

[00:16:10]確實需要多少錢。我想說的是,香港的另一個地方,不打擾中國

[00:16:20] Tuen Mun. It is a very strategic location, the link between Chek Lap Kok and Tuen Mun that is supposed to be completed in 2020. This will create a lot of long term

[00:16:20]屯門。這是一個非常有戰畧意義的位置,連接赤?角和屯門,預計在2020年建成。這將產生很多長期的影響

[00:16:30] development opportunities, giving a lot more opportunities, long term growth, because it’s close to the airport, which is an International Airport. So

[00:16:30]發展機遇,給予更多機會,長期增長,因為它靠近國際機場機場。所以

[00:16:40] anywhere of these transportation hubs like borders and places with strong trunk lines and safe places

[00:16:40]這些交通樞紐中的任何一個,比如邊界和具有强大幹線和安全場所的地方

[00:16:50] in terms of geographically safe, stable climate wise, it’s a good place, and Hong Kong is at the right place of having that geographical

[00:16:50]就地理安全、氣候穩定而言,這裡是丹麥藝術家的好去處,而香港正是擁有這一地理位置的合適地點

[00:17:00] and infrastructure advantage.

[00:17:00]和基礎設施優勢。

[00:17:01] Darren Wong: [00:17:01] I see. So what are typical yield on data centre compared to traditional industrial building? And how long the lease contract and

[00:17:01]Darren Wong:[00:17:01]我明白了。那麼,與傳統工業建築相比,資料中心的典型收益率是多少?租賃合同和

[00:17:10] operators are typical for? Lastly, what’s the trend over on the demand for data centre in those regard? And do you think that the next 5 to 10 years,

[00:17:10]操作員是典型的?最後,在這些方面,對資料中心的需求趨勢如何?你認為未來5到10年,

[00:17:20] it’s going to be good? What would you think of that?

[00:17:20]會好起來的?你覺得怎麼樣?

[00:17:24] Anthony Wong: [00:17:24] Yeah, so the yield of the data centre is it’s about

[00:17:24]Anthony Wong:[00:17:24]是的,所以資料中心的收益是

[00:17:30] traditionally, it’s been about three 3.5%. It’s approaching 4%, because rents are really leveraging itself, which the yield is actually higher than

[00:17:30]傳統上是3.5%。它接近4%,因為租金確實在杠杆作用,收益率實際上比

[00:17:40] grade A offices in Hong Kong, which is about a high 2%. So it makes an attractive investment, because we can have greater returns and

[00:17:40]香港甲級寫字樓,約占2%。囙此,這是一項有吸引力的投資,因為我們可以獲得更高的回報

[00:17:50] typically more stable yields. Because usually, these contracts of the data centres, the leases range from 8 to 10 years or more, because you

[00:17:50]收益率通常更穩定。因為通常,這些資料中心的契约,租賃期從8年到10年甚至更長,因為你

[00:18:00] have really expensive equipment being shipped into these sites, right? So these racks, and usually these leases are longer because you want to protect these equipment

[00:18:00]是否有非常昂貴的設備被運到這些地點,對嗎?所以這些機架,通常這些租約更長,因為你想保護這些設備

[00:18:10] longer and able to operate longer in a specific location and move to a different location, and there might be a lot of problem as well. So usually typical

[00:18:10]時間更長,能够在特定位置操作更長時間,並移動到另一個位置,而且可能會有很多問題。所以通常是典型的

[00:18:20] tenants like to stay in a data center longer. So that creates more of a stable yield, not just high yield, stable but high yield. And rents have been progressively going up, for

[00:18:20]租戶喜歡在資料中心逗留更長時間。這樣就創造了更穩定的產量,不僅僅是高產,穩定而且高產。租金也在逐步上漲,因為

[00:18:30] example, this year, year-on-year has already gone up 5 to 10%, and depending on which region, right? So it is exciting. To answer where is the demand or where is the future trend going? There’s a lot of trend that is propelling the sector. And when you look at the COVID induced remote office solutions, and cloud computing, a lot of companies are willing for the employee to work from home or

[00:18:30]比如,今年同比已經上漲了5%到10%,這要看哪個地區,對吧?所以這是令人興奮的。回答需求的方向或未來趨勢如何?有很多趨勢在推動這個行業的發展。當你看到COVID誘導的遠程辦公室解決方案和云計算時,很多公司都願意讓員工在家裡或

[00:18:40] on

[00:18:40]開

[00:18:50] a rotational basis. I think Hong

[00:18:50]輪換制。我想洪

[00:19:00] Kong, work from home is not going to be as impacted. For example, that notion is not going to come back. But for example.

[00:19:00]孔,在家工作不會受到影響。例如,這種想法不會再出現。但舉例來說。

[00:19:10] Places like San Francisco, which is tech, and in some places, you’re gonna drive an hour to your office. In Hong Kong, transportation still really convenient. So remote

[00:19:10]像舊金山這樣的地方,科技含量很高,在某些地方,你要開車一個小時到你的辦公室。在香港,交通還是很方便的。太遙遠了

[00:19:20] solutions in other areas that requires more working, transporting time will be really, really useful.

[00:19:20]其他需要更多工作和運輸時間的解決方案將非常非常有用。

[00:19:30] As we talked about the MNC corporates and these high tech companies will obviously be at the forefront of

[00:19:30]正如我們所說的,跨國公司和這些高科技公司顯然將走在

[00:19:40] driving this data centre use because of their data data demand. Another thing is online and retail e-commerce that’s been going on in 5 to

[00:19:40]由於他們的數據數據需求,推動資料中心的使用。另一件事是線上和零售電子商務,這在5到

[00:19:50] 20 years almost, since Amazon came in and I think consumer demand is increasing and shifting towards online shopping. And retail should invest in online shopping

[00:19:50]差不多20年了,自從亞馬遜(Amazon)問世以來,我認為消費者的需求正在新增,並轉向線上購物。零售業應該投資於網上購物

[00:20:00] platforms, and enhancing, for example, different distribution strategies. And these kind of online shopping requires a lot of

[00:20:00]例如,不同的分銷策略。這種網上購物需要很多

[00:20:10] data use as well. And data centre creates a really kind of roadmap for these different online shops can, as an intermediary, to give information for

[00:20:10]數據使用也是如此。資料中心為這些不同的線上商店創建了一個真正的路線圖,作為仲介,可以為

[00:20:20] consumers and the owners themselves. And last but most, I think, data centre, it is emerging. But even further than

[00:20:20]消費者和所有者自己。最後但最重要的是,我認為,資料中心正在興起。但甚至比

[00:20:30] that, there has to be more of a green and sustainable data centre development coming into play. As you know, data centre, as we talked

[00:20:30]囙此,必須更多地發揮綠色和永續的資料中心發展的作用。如你所知,資料中心,正如我們所說

[00:20:40] about previously, data centres is really energy intensive. It provides a lot of power, and it consume a lot of energy. So

[00:20:40]以前,資料中心確實是能源密集型的。它提供了大量的能量,也消耗了大量的能量。所以

[00:20:50] the large operators, actually right now, like international operators, like Equinix, Equinix, has actually adopted renewable practice by using

[00:20:50]大型運營商,實際上現在,像國際運營商,比如equinix,equinix,已經通過使用

[00:21:00] a lot of their electricity supply from renewable energies like solar power, wind power. They actually committed and a lot of companies will be

[00:21:00]他們的大量電力來自可再生能源,如太陽能、風能。他們真的承諾了很多公司會

[00:21:10] following that, especially with the ESG and the post-COVID trend of environmental awareness, these companies are actually trying to achieve the 100%

[00:21:10]在這之後,特別是隨著ESG和環境意識的後COVID趨勢,這些公司實際上正在努力實現100%

[00:21:20] efficiency in terms of renewable energy. On top of that, you have a really great policy platform, such as the UN 2030

[00:21:20]可再生能源的效率。除此之外,你還有一個非常好的政策平臺,比如聯合國2030

[00:21:30] sustainable agenda, ESG guidelines, as we talked about, which will even push these companies to go for renewable energy that is sustaining data centres. So I see

[00:21:30]永續議程,ESG指南,正如我們所說,它甚至會推動這些公司採用可再生能源來維持資料中心。所以我明白了

[00:21:40] this as a future pathway and how data centre is developed.

[00:21:40]這是一個未來的途徑,以及如何開發資料中心。

[00:21:44] Darren Wong: [00:21:44] And that’s very, very good. I think that’s a very good way to

[00:21:44]Darren Wong:[00:21:44]非常非常好。我覺得這是個很好的方法

[00:21:50] summarise too. There’s so many questions popping up in my head right away, but I’ll leave it for asking you on your profile and for Denzity profile and everything and more and more. And then so for people who might

[00:21:50]總結一下。我腦子裏馬上就冒出這麼多問題,但我還是把它留給你在你的個人資料上問你,再問你密不透風的個人資料等等。對那些可能

[00:22:00] want to know more about this segment and the previous episode of research and so on, what are couple ways that people can find you, know more about you and your work?

[00:22:00]想瞭解更多關於本部分和前一集的研究等等,人們可以通過哪些管道找到你,瞭解你和你的工作?

[00:22:09] Anthony Wong: [00:22:09] Yeah,

[00:22:09]安東尼·王:[00:22:09]是的,

[00:22:10] for sure. So, we have published a data centre report in April so even go on google and type in data centre, future landscape data centre

[00:22:10]當然。所以,我們在4月份發佈了一份資料中心報告,甚至可以在穀歌上輸入資料中心,未來景觀資料中心

[00:22:20] specifically and you type it in and type in Colliers International. We actually did a 14-page report specifically analysing locally based in Hong Kong, where to invest in data

[00:22:20]具體地說,你輸入並輸入高力國際。實際上,我們做了一份14頁的報告,專門分析了香港本地的數據投資地點

[00:22:30] centre. We have a strong research and evaluation team, if you’re more interested and have investment thoughts or just curious about this

[00:22:30]中心。我們有一個强大的研究和評估團隊,如果你更感興趣,有投資想法或只是好奇

[00:22:40] sector, feel free to just take a look at the document or reach me out, or reach our company, some of the representative. But my email is

[00:22:40]或者直接從我們公司的代表那裡拿到一份檔案。但我的電子郵件

[00:22:50] anthony.wong@colliers.com. Make use of those reports and give you a perspective on where our data centres moving towards. And then we give a lot of insights, how not only Hong Kong itself and how our

[00:22:50]安東尼·王@高力網.利用這些報告,讓您瞭解我們的資料中心走向何方。然後我們給出了很多見解,不僅是香港本身,還有我們

[00:23:00] international forces like we talked about Singapore, how are we competing with our competitors? So, do feel free to reach out via my email address

[00:23:00]國際力量就像我們談到的新加坡,我們如何與我們的競爭對手競爭?所以,請隨時通過我的電子郵寄地址聯系

[00:23:10] or take a look at our reports.

[00:23:10] 或者看看我們的報告。

[00:23:13] Darren Wong: [00:23:13] That’s great. Obviously, as I said before, I’ll have everything in the show notes. And I want to say thank you so much. Thanks for sharing

[00:23:13]Darren Wong:[00:23:13]太好了。很明顯,就像我之前說的,我會把所有的東西都寫在節目筆記裏。我非常感謝你。謝謝分享

[00:23:20] with us. And then I, even myself personally, I learned a lot through your sharing. And then hopefully, you can come back for round two, because, just alone, I’m sure if I come to the next

[00:23:20]和我們一起。然後我,甚至我個人,通過你們的分享我學到了很多。然後希望你能回來參加第二輪,因為,就一個人,我肯定我會來下一輪

[00:23:30] segment, let’s say, in the future maybe retail or office or anything big changes, your one of the first person I’ll talk to see, hey, Anthony, just come on board, round two again. So thanks

[00:23:30]比如說,未來可能是零售業、辦公室、牙醫或其他什麼大的變化,你是我第一個見到的人之一,嘿,安東尼,來吧,再來第二輪。所以謝謝

[00:23:40] a lot for your time and effort. Because it’s something that like I care about is that people know more about what’s going on, and niche market that data centre, industrial, different sections of it,

[00:23:40]你花了很多時間和精力。因為我關心的是,人們對正在發生的事情有更多的瞭解,以及利基市場,資料中心,工業,it的不同部門,

[00:23:50] too. We can cover that in the future. So thanks a lot again.

[00:23:50]也是。我們可以在將來討論這個問題。再次感謝你。

[00:23:52] Anthony Wong: [00:23:52] Yeah, for sure. It’s my pleasure. This sector is changing quite a lot. So for sure, the next time we chat about it, we’re going to see new

[00:23:52]安東尼·王:[00:23:52]是的,當然。這是我的榮幸。這個行業正在發生很大的變化。所以,下一次我們聊這個的時候,我們會看到新的

[00:24:00] exciting things coming in, for example, the transaction by TikTok, yesterday, it was quite exciting. So it’s a very exciting topic to talk about. And thanks for having me here. For sure.

[00:24:00]令人興奮的事情來了,例如,昨天的滴答交易,非常令人興奮。所以這是一個非常令人興奮的話題。謝謝你讓我來。當然。

[00:24:09] Darren Wong: [00:24:09] Okay,

[00:24:09]Darren Wong:[00:24:09]好的,

[00:24:10] thank you. See you next time, then. Thank you.

[00:24:10]謝謝。那麼下次見。謝謝您。

[00:24:12] Anthony Wong: [00:24:12] Yeah, for sure, have a good one. Take care. Bye bye.

[00:24:12]安東尼·王:[00:24:12]是的,當然,祝你愉快。當心。再見。

[00:24:14] Darren Wong: [00:24:14] Bye.

[00:24:14]Darren Wong:[00:24:14]再見。

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

5 Reasons Why Vietnam Is Becoming Asia’s Latest Property Hotspot

The prospects of Vietnam real estate remain optimistic and are the brightest among Asian countries

5 Reasons Why Vietnam Is Becoming Asia’s Latest Property Hotspot

2020 is a challenging year for global investors. While no country can avoid the pandemic’s economic downturn, the prospects of Vietnam real estate remain positive and are the brightest among Asian countries. This article highlights 5 crucial factors driving foreign buyers’ interest in this rising Southeast Asian country.

1. Growing economy
2020 is a challenging year for global investors. But Vietnam has received international praise for its efficient and effective response to the COVID-19 outbreak. While no country can avoid the pandemic’s economic downturn, the prospects of Vietnam real estate remain optimistic and are the brightest among Asian countries. Data released by the General Statistics Office of Vietnam estimated a 1.81 percent growth to Vietnam’s GDP in the first half of 2020. The estimation is encouraging as Vietnam is one of the few countries that achieved positive growth during the pandemic.

2. Foreigners friendly policy
It used to be very difficult for foreigners to own property in Vietnam. But now, thanks to the Vietnamese government’s support, buying a property in Vietnam has become easier for foreigners. Since 2015, foreigners can purchase as many real estate units as they want, provided that they do not buy more than 30 percent of the units in each new residential project. Foreigners are also allowed to use and control the land they lease with a leasehold period of up to 50-70 years. If you want to find out more details, speak to a Vietnam real estate expert to find more.

3. Improved infrastructure
The urban development in Vietnam has been a miracle, and the Vietnamese government is very supportive. Various expressway projects are being planned or under construction to improve connectivity within major cities. For example, the North-South expressway is a Vietnamese expressway running from Hanoi to Cần Thơ. It has been described as Vietnam’s future transport foundation. The expressway will be 1,941 km long, with a total cost estimate of US$18.5 billion. Meanwhile, with rapid urbanization, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh are building rapid transit systems in the hope of reducing private vehicle ownership and improving air quality. The ambitious infrastructure plan will undoubtedly bring many benefits to the Vietnam real estate market.

4. Affordable prices
The good thing about Vietnam is that it is a fast-growing country. In Vietnam, home prices are considered very affordable compared to traditional property hotspots such as Hong Kong and Singapore. The average price of apartments in Hanoi is estimated to be US$1,493 per sq. m. in Q2 2020. Despite rising prices, Vietnam’s luxury apartments seem like an attractive deal for wealthy investors who used to sky-high prices back home or in countries like Shanghai, Singapore and Hong Kong.

5. Offer great yields
Rental yield is the return on investment in percent (%) when comparing the property’s current value to the rental income. In Vietnam, yields can reach up to 6%-8%, especially in popular areas. According to multiple sources, Hanoi offers the greatest yields compared to other cities. Thanks to its strategic location, the capital is becoming extremely popular among the Asian real estate community. Flying to Hanoi takes you less than 2 hours from Hong Kong and about 5 hours from Shanghai. Real estate experts also expect property rental yields to further rise in the future as demand increases.

Want to buy property in Vietnam? Reach out to a trusted real estate community for more information!

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Market Updates 未分類

Top 4 Cities In Vietnam To Watch in 2021

Vietnam is becoming Asia’s latest property hotspot.

Top 4 Cities In Vietnam To Watch in 2021

Vietnam is booming! Forget about the traditional real estate hotspots like Hong Kong and Singapore. Vietnam is becoming Asia’s latest property hotspot. In 2015, Vietnam opened up to foreign real estate investors, and it has become one of the hottest topics among the real estate community ever since. Currently, foreigners can purchase as many real estate units as they want, provided that they do not buy more than 30 percent of the units in each new residential project.

With a relatively strong economy (data released by the General Statistics Office of Vietnam estimated a 1.81 percent growth to Vietnam’s GDP in the first half of 2020. The numbers are promising as Vietnam is one of few countries that achieved positive growth during the pandemic) and an ambitious infrastructure plan. The property market in Vietnam is enticing and offers excellent yields.

For newbies, you may have heard of Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City. But Vietnam is more than that. In this article, we’ll introduce 4 cities that you should pay attention to in 2021.

Hanoi

Hanoi is the country’s capital and the second-largest city. It is also the cultural and industrial centre. Life in Hanoi is very enchanting for those who love to explore Vietnamese history and culture. The city retains its Old Quarter, which features very distinctive Vietnamese architecture and tradition. Meanwhile, Hanoi is where embassies, start-ups, and NGOs locate, which increases the size of the rental market. The average price of apartments in Hanoi is estimated to be US$1,493 per sq. m. in Q2 2020. Despite rising prices, Hanoi’s luxury apartments seem like an attractive deal for wealthy investors from regions like Hong Kong and mainland China. Thanks to its strategic location, flying to Hanoi takes you less than 2 hours from Hong Kong and about 5 hours from Shanghai.


Ho Chi Minh City

Being the largest city in Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh City is praised as Vietnam’s economic hub. It has attracted the largest expats because it is the largest financial and economic hub in the country. The rapid growth of the population increases the demand for apartments. For years, Ho Chi Minh City led Vietnam in terms of FDI attraction. In 2017, there were 7,494 projects issued with valid investment certificates, accounting for 13.9% of the country’s total FDI. Ho Chi Minh City has 11 industrial zones with a total area of more than 1,700 hectares; practically anything of business significance happening in Vietnam goes through Ho Chi Minh City. Real estate experts believe the real estate market of Ho Chi Minh City will remain strong in the coming years.


Nha Trang
Looking for luxury holiday flats? Nha Trang is for you! Being the coastal area of central Vietnam, the economy of Nha Trang rises significantly. Nha Trang is well known for its beaches and scuba diving and has developed into a popular destination for international visitors. While the tourism industry is greatly affected by the pandemic, it will bounce back as Vietnam has received international praise for its efficient and effective response to the COVID-19 outbreak. Nha Trang is the city to watch in 2021!


Da Nang

In 2017, Da Nang was chosen to host the APEC Economic Leaders’ Week, a sign to show its importance to the country. Da Nang is only hours away from significant domestic and foreign markets such as Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, China and India, making a favourable destination for foreign real estate investment. According to real estate experts, the most popular properties for foreign investors in Da Nang are high-end resorts, hotels and beachfront villas.

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Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights: Real Estate Research Like A Pro With Anthony Wong

Real Estate Research Like A Pro With Anthony Wong

Conducting proper research can be key to a successful real estate investment as it has a huge role to play in several ways. That’s why it is important to know where and how to get the correct information since data is often inaccessible to many. Therefore, we decided to cover this topic with Anthony Wong, a real estate research expert.

  • Methods & sources that investors should leverage
  • The process of assessing the different type of projects
  • When conducting research in emerging market

▶ Connect with Anthony:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-wong-8ba67080/

▶ Source & Supporting:

Realinflo: https://www.realinflo.com

Colliers International: https://www2.colliers.com/en

Real Capital Analytics: https://www.rcanalytics.com

Buildings Department: https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/index.html

Data Centre: A data centre is an enclosed space where everything related to data is stored and handled inside mass number of computers, devices through many servers and networks.

https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/cyberpedia/what-is-a-data-center

APR: APR or annual percentage rate is the percentage of the amount that the borrower needs to pay to the lender per year.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/apr.asp

▶ Disclaimer:

This disclaimer informs readers/audience that the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the text/video belong solely to the author & participant, and not necessarily to the participant’s employer, organization, committee or other group or individual. 

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

======


Anthony Wong_ep24

[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Darren Wong: [00:00:00] Well, Anthony, welcome to the show.

[00:00:00][00:00]Darren Wong:[00:00:00]好吧,安東尼,歡迎收看節目。

[00:00:04]Anthony Wong: [00:00:04] Hi, it’s a pleasure to be here.

[00:00:04]安東尼·王:[00:00:04]嗨,很高興來到這裡。

[00:00:06] Darren Wong: [00:00:06] Yeah. So, I think we met a couple months ago

[00:00:06]Darren Wong:[00:00:06]是的。我想我們幾個月前見過面

[00:00:10] through our friend Gary from a RealInflo. And then I remember when we talked about having the show, and then your background is very good

[00:00:10]通過我們的朋友加里從一個真正的流入。我記得我們談過舉辦這個節目的時候,你的背景很好

[00:00:20] because our show is about helping audiences to learn about how to make better judgement, and better-informed decisions when it comes to real estate investing. So, if someone from your background have

[00:00:20]因為我們的節目旨在幫助觀眾瞭解如何在房地產投資方面做出更好的判斷和更明智的決策。所以,如果你背景的人

[00:00:30] the knowledge professionally, and have a very broad view of different location, how to think about investment is something that I’m really happy that you’re here to share with everyone here.

[00:00:30]專業的知識,對不同的地點有著非常廣闊的視野,如何思考投資是我非常高興的事情,你能在這裡與大家分享。

[00:00:40] [00:00:40] Anthony Wong: [00:00:40] Yeah, certainly. I mean, it’s a pleasure, get to know to Gary, who actually worked in my company before he came in and did a little

[00:00:40][00:00:40]安東尼·王:[00:00:40]是的,當然。我是說,很高興認識加里,他來之前在我公司工作過,做過一些事情

[00:00:50] presentation and modelling about his business line, RealInflo. If you haven’t checked out it, it’s a real estate platform, basically an extract of different real estate

[00:00:50]關於他的業務線,真實流入的演示和建模。如果你還沒看過,那就是一個房地產平臺,基本上是不同房地產的摘錄

[00:01:00] information, combining every data platform into one. Yeah, to start off with I’ve given introduction of myself. I’m Anthony Wong. I’m currently a research

[00:01:00]資訊,將每個數據平臺組合為一個。是的,首先我做了自我介紹。我是安東尼王。我現在在做研究

[00:01:10] manager at Colliers International. My education is that I have a master’s degree in real estate development. And previously, I’ve worked in China, and US

[00:01:10]高力國際的經理。我的教育是取得房地產開發碩士學位。以前,我在中國和美國工作過

[00:01:20] and now in Hong Kong. And I’ve worked in developers, which is client side and the consultancy side. I’ve also worked in several smaller startup side projects

[00:01:20]現在在香港。我在開發商工作過,也就是客戶方和諮詢方。我也曾參與過一些小型的創業項目

[00:01:30] previously, when I was interning during my university. So, for my current role, my responsibilities include writing research reports, managing

[00:01:30]以前,我在大學實習的時候。所以,對於我現時的角色,我的職責包括撰寫研究報告,管理

[00:01:40] database, as well as supporting a local team to execute client projects. So, every single quarter, as you know, there’s four quarters a year, and we have to produce

[00:01:40]資料庫,以及支持本地團隊執行客戶項目。所以,每個季度,如你所知,一年有四個季度,我們必須生產

[00:01:50] four reports per year, including retail, industrial, office and capital markets. So, one of the more interesting projects, which we’ll talk in a later

[00:01:50]每年四份報告,包括零售、工業、辦公和資本市場。所以,一個更有趣的項目,我們將在稍後討論

[00:02:00] episode is that data centre, we’ve recently published a research radar report on data centre market in Hong Kong, about smart technology, IOTs,

[00:02:00]關於資料中心,我們最近發佈了一份關於香港資料中心市場的研究雷達報告,關於智慧科技、物聯網,

[00:02:10] and how that is driving demand of higher data usage and what kind of sectors is changing in the upcoming years because it is gaining a lot attraction. And

[00:02:10]這是如何推動對更高數據使用率的需求的,以及在未來幾年中,哪些行業正在發生變化,因為它正變得越來越有吸引力。以及

[00:02:20] we’ll talk more about that in terms of industrial conversion, development, acquisition in the later chapter. But I’m happy to talk about my experience background. And now go back to you, Darren.

[00:02:20]我們將在後面的章節中從產業轉型、發展、收購等方面進行更多討論。但我很樂意談談我的經歷背景。現在回到你身邊,達倫。

[00:02:30] [00:02:30] Darren Wong: [00:02:30] Yeah, well, thanks for sharing because, I think when we prepping the show, and then you talked about we start with having one episode about how to do a better research, how

[00:02:30][00:02:30]Darren Wong:[00:02:30]是的,謝謝你的分享,因為,我想當我們準備節目的時候,你說我們從一集開始講如何做更好的研究,怎麼做

[00:02:40] to understand about investing overseas or locally. And then you mentioned data centre, where same time is that a lot of my friends are looking to data centre to invest or look into how to

[00:02:40]瞭解海外或本地投資。然後你們提到了資料中心,同時我的很多朋友都在找資料中心投資或者研究如何投資

[00:02:50] restructure it, which that’s why we dedicated for two different episodes for this. So, let’s start with the research side, because I think the information is interesting. So, for the

[00:02:50]重組它,這就是為什麼我們為此專門製作了兩個不同的劇集。所以,讓我們從研究方面開始,因為我認為這些資訊很有趣。所以,為了

[00:03:00] audience who might not be familiar, would you mind explaining what a real estate researcher does? And what a typical day would be?

[00:03:00]可能不太熟悉的觀眾,您介意解釋一下房地產研究員的工作嗎?那會是什麼樣的一天呢?

[00:03:07] Anthony Wong: [00:03:07] Yeah, for sure. I mean, in real estate

[00:03:07] Anthony Wong: [00:03:07]當然可以。我是說,在房地產領域

[00:03:10] research, you really get touch upon in different areas of things, not only just in real estate, you have to understand economics, stock market,

[00:03:10]研究,你會接觸到不同領域的事情,不僅僅是在房地產領域,你必須瞭解經濟學、股票市場,

[00:03:20] interest rates, all kinds of stuff. So, you have to be really, really aware of what’s happening in the economy, and everywhere, basically. So typically, I start off my day with reading

[00:03:20] 利率,各種各樣的東西。所以,你必須真正地,真正地意識到經濟中正在發生的事情,以及所有地方,基本上。所以我通常從閱讀開始我的一天

[00:03:30] a lot of market news, like Bloomberg, Routers, SCMP, HKEJ, or even local news like that, just to get a sense of how the economy is doing that

[00:03:30]很多市場新聞,比如彭博社、路由器、SCMP、HKEJ,甚至是當地的新聞,只是想瞭解一下經濟是如何運作的

[00:03:40] day or that quarter or that month. And after just reading news off it, it really depends what kind of project I’m working on. For example, in the

[00:03:40]某日或該季度或該月。在剛剛讀過新聞之後,這取決於我在做什麼樣的項目。例如,在

[00:03:50] past quarter, we published four quarterly reports, if you haven’t checked out, go to our Colliers International website, and it has the four sectors indicating

[00:03:50]過去一個季度,我們發佈了四個季度報告,如果您還沒有查看,請訪問我們的高力國際網站,上面有四個部門顯示

[00:04:00] how the market is doing. So yes, the four core markets we talked about is office, retail, industrial and capital markets. For office, it’s really, for us,

[00:04:00]市場情况如何。所以,是的,我們談到的四個覈心市場是辦公、零售、工業和資本市場。為了辦公室,真的,為了我們,

[00:04:10] as a researcher, every single month, we have to go through monthly meetings without brokers to understand how the rental changes are doing,

[00:04:10]作為一名研究員,每個月,我們都要在沒有經紀人的情况下召開月度會議,以瞭解租金的變化情况,

[00:04:20] what are the tenancy arrangements, what the vacancy rates, who are moving in and out of these new leases. For example, in Central and core areas in the past couple of

[00:04:20]租賃安排是什麼,空置率是多少,這些新租約的入住者和搬出者。例如,在中央和覈心區

[00:04:30] months, seeing a lot of changes because of the trade wars, the COVID-19, all that kind of market turbulence going on. So really keeping

[00:04:30]幾個月來,由於貿易戰,COVID-19,所有的市場動盪都在發生。所以真的

[00:04:40] close intact with the brokers, with the market players is really important on our daily flow. In terms of retail side, yes, you have

[00:04:40]與經紀人、市場參與者保持完整的關係對我們的日常交易流非常重要。在零售方面,是的,你有

[00:04:50] to get in close touch with the brokers, but not only that, you have to do a lot of self-research. So, for me recently, I published retail reports. We have to

[00:04:50]要與經紀人保持密切聯繫,但不僅如此,你還需要做大量的自我調查。最近,我發佈了零售報告。我們必須

[00:05:00] understand retail sales, we have to understand exports, imports, where are the sort of goods coming in, and how are the vacancy rates responding to

[00:05:00]瞭解零售銷售,我們必須瞭解出口、進口、商品種類以及空置率如何應對

[00:05:10] that. And also understanding incoming travellers, visitor travellers demand, when you look at it, almost 70 to 80%, back then all the travellers are from Mainland China,

[00:05:10]那個。同時也瞭解到入境旅客,旅客的需求,如果你看一下,差不多有70%到80%的旅客來自中國大陸,

[00:05:20] so they buy a lot of luxury goods. But now the trends are changing, it’s more like necessities, supermarkets are doing really well. No longer luxurious goods are doing well in the market right now. So

[00:05:20]所以他們買了很多奢侈品。但現在趨勢在變,更像是生活必需品,量販店的生意真的很好。現在市場上不再是奢侈品了。所以

[00:05:30] really being able to, and that’s why going back to the point reading market means understanding how the economy is going and reflected a research report. Industrial, as I talked about, it’s going through a

[00:05:30]真正能够做到這一點,這就是為什麼回到重點閱讀市場意味著瞭解經濟發展情况並反映出一份研究報告。工業,就像我說的,它正在經歷一個

[00:05:40] lot of changes as well. As you know, as a lot of people do know the supplies really limited. It’s not as substantial as

[00:05:40]還有很多變化。正如你所知道的,很多人都知道供應確實有限。它沒有實質性的

[00:05:50] residential, where there’s a high demand, but industrial is going to go through a big change in terms of the higher demand for data centres, the higher demand for higher

[00:05:50]住宅區,那裡的需求很高,但工業區將經歷一場巨大的變化,即對資料中心的需求越高,對資料中心的需求就越高

[00:06:00] quality industrial buildings, and a better location in support of that. And lastly but not, capital markets. That used to be one of the largest revenues [00:06:10] stream and consultancies, really trying to find big buyers. I mean, you can buy a billion dollar, a

[00:06:00]優質的工業建築,以及更好的位置來支持這一點。最後但不是資本市場。這曾經是stream和consultancies收入最大的公司之一,真的在尋找大買家。我是說,你可以買10億美元的15個幫手

[00:06:20] billion-dollar transaction and be a broker, and in between, you can get a big commission and back, it gives the companies a big portion of revenue during good times.

[00:06:20]10億美元的交易,做個經紀人,在這期間,你可以得到一大筆傭金,然後再回來,這會給公司帶來很大一部分的收入。

[00:06:30] But in tougher times, it’s tougher. So, the capital markets right now we’re really trying to help them to find distressed assets. Selling, advising our capital markets team to

[00:06:30]但在更艱難的時候,情况會更艱難。所以,資本市場現在我們真的在努力幫助他們找到不良資產。建議我們的資本市場團隊

[00:06:40] advise the clients where to buy properties. Hotel sector is a good one, because hotel is really having really low APR rate. So, giving them a really

[00:06:40]建議客戶在哪裡購買房產。酒店業是個不錯的行業,因為飯店的年利率確實很低。所以,給他們一個真正的

[00:06:50] good perspective and good direction in terms of how they deal with their clients and giving them a lot of resources is what I do on a daily basis. And I’m

[00:06:50]在如何與客戶打交道方面,以及給他們提供大量資源方面,我每天都要做的就是要有良好的視角和良好的方向。我是

[00:07:00] really happy to be part of the team and giving support our various brokers team.

[00:07:00]非常高興成為團隊的一員,並為我們的各個經紀人團隊提供支援。

[00:07:05] Darren Wong: [00:07:05] it sounds like a lot, a lot of reading and understanding. Because not only there you are being an

[00:07:05]Darren Wong:[00:07:05]聽起來有很多,很多閱讀和理解。因為你不僅在那裡

[00:07:10] economist, you’re being on the ground, talking to someone like broker in the forefront, and then you have to keep learning every single day. And not only real estate, right? Because real estate is a

[00:07:10]經濟學家,你在實地工作,和像經紀人這樣的人在前線交談,然後你每天都要不斷學習。不僅僅是房地產,對吧?因為房地產是

[00:07:20] big, big sector, but then the ecosystem with stocks, equity, debt, there’s so many neurons that you have to juggle with. And obviously, like not all the audience

[00:07:20]龐大的行業,但是在股票、股票、債務的生態系統中,有太多的神經元需要你去處理。顯然,不像所有的觀眾

[00:07:30] had the luxury that they can sit down and learn about these things every single day. But then it seems like it’s good to have someone like you to weave out and say, “hey, let’s make something very simple, ABCD,

[00:07:30]他們每天都可以坐下來學習這些東西。不過,有你這樣的人來編織,然後說,“嘿,讓我們把事情做得很簡單,ABCD,

[00:07:40] how to do it,” and then maybe, in the future, you become a researcher, you can do a lot more of that. So, being in the professional firms, what are some sources of knowledge that you can access

[00:07:40]如何做到這一點,“也許將來,你成為一名研究人員,你可以做更多的工作。那麼,在專業公司裏,你能獲得哪些知識來源

[00:07:50] to, which the audience might not gain access? Or have a harder time to have those knowledges?

[00:07:50]到,觀眾可能無法訪問這些內容?或者更難掌握這些知識?

[00:07:57] Anthony Wong: [00:07:57] Yeah, for sure. I mean, as a researcher, we

[00:07:57]安東尼·王:[00:07:57]是的,當然。我是說,作為一個研究者,我們

[00:08:00] do you have access to certain amount of knowledge that the public don’t have. But actually, majority of the resources that we do get is actually free to the public, and

[00:08:00]你能接觸到公眾所沒有的知識嗎。但實際上,我們得到的大部分資源實際上是免費的,而且

[00:08:10] just that the public are not aware of it. So, for example, besides our internal database, which we support our rentals

[00:08:10]只是公眾並不知道。例如,除了我們的內部審計資料庫,我們支持我們的租賃

[00:08:20] and vacancy every single month, for our office grade A brokerage team, which we provide different kinds of data. Yes, that is really kind of hard, difficult to

[00:08:20]並且每個月都有空缺,對於我們辦公室的甲級經紀團隊,我們提供不同種類的數據。是的,那真的有點難,很難

[00:08:30] retrieve because we manage our in-house database. But on top of that, things like land supply, land tender sells, those are all available in the market, for example, in the

[00:08:30]檢索,因為我們管理我們的內部資料庫。但除此之外,土地供應、土地招標出售等都是市場上可以買到的,例如

[00:08:40] lands apartment, you can go on the land sale section, and there’s different kinds of land tender documents, and you can look at different past bidders who bid at the land,

[00:08:40]土地公寓,你可以去賣地部分,那裡有不同種類的土地招標檔案,你可以看看不同的過去的競買人誰在等待土地,

[00:08:50] and what are the sort of trajectory. For example, most recently, there’s a lot of Chinese buyers, as you know, China Mobile just purchased an industrial site in ShaTin, a couple more sites

[00:08:50]軌跡是怎樣的。例如,最近有很多中國買家,你知道,中國移動剛剛在沙田購買了一個工業網站,還有幾個網站

[00:09:00] in Tuen Mun that various other Chinese companies. Understanding they’re not out there, but you just have to dig deeper into these websites. And

[00:09:00]在屯門,有許多其他中國包裹。瞭解他們不在那裡,但你只需要深入挖掘這些網站。以及

[00:09:10] another one is, if you have a piece of land, for example, investor, where do you go about to start up beside higher concern? Before you do due diligence, you can go on planning

[00:09:10]另一個問題是,如果你有一塊土地,比如說,投資者,除了更高的關注點之外,你要去哪裡創業?在你盡職調查之前,你可以繼續計畫

[00:09:20] department about outline zoning plan portal, which kind of shows you what are the limitations, restrictions regarding that area, for example, building heights, for example,

[00:09:20]關於分區規劃大綱的部門入口网站,它向您展示了該區域的限制和限制,例如,建築高度,

[00:09:30] zoning, for example, how many GFP that’s allowed. Plot ratio, that’s a good one. Really, it’s really available out there, but it’s really finding the sources. Another

[00:09:30]分區,例如,允許多少GFP。容積率,不錯。真的,它真的有,但它真的在尋找來源。另一個

[00:09:40] resource and knowledge that I gained access to, which a lot of people have heard of, is Real Capital Analytics. And that’s a subscription platform we do. And it’s mainly in

[00:09:40]我獲得的資源和知識,很多人都聽說過,是真正的資本分析。這是一個訂閱平臺。主要是在

[00:09:50] support of various valuation teams that we do have. And also capital markets team, for example, understanding what the recent transactions. What are the transactions that went over 4

[00:09:50]我們所擁有的各種評估團隊的支持。還有資本市場團隊,比如,瞭解最近的交易情况。超過4的交易有哪些

[00:10:00] billion dollars, for example, and what kind of market we are going for that specific lump sum or what the client is requesting. Another free

[00:10:00]億美元,比如說,我們要在什麼樣的市場上一次性付清,或者客戶要求什麼。另一個免費的

[00:10:10] platform, RCA, obviously, the one I talked about requires a sign up and you got to pay for it. But another free platform, I would say it’s really looking at the

[00:10:10]平臺,RCA,很明顯,我說的那個需要注册,你必須付費。但是另一個免費的平臺,我想說它真的在關注

[00:10:20] rating evaluation department, which they have a popping market statistics. We have all kinds of resources out there that could show you the trajectory of the

[00:10:20]評級評估部門,他們有一個快速的市場統計資料。我們有各種各樣的資源可以告訴你

[00:10:30] rental and capital value market flow. Another one is also the Buildings Department, if you want to look at the go-to-completion where the

[00:10:30]租金和資本價值市場流量。另一個也是建築部,如果你想看看要去哪裡完成的話

[00:10:40] progress instead of going on site and actually check out what’s going on. Actually, buildings apartments show you what are the progress in the development by telling you

[00:10:40]不是去現場,而是去看看到底發生了什麼。事實上,樓房公寓通過告訴你發展的進展來告訴你

[00:10:50] what kind of structure phase they are in. So, I think really this be resourceful. A lot of information is for your benefit, and the government do a really good job in terms of maintaining it. It’s really going

[00:10:50]他們處於什麼樣的結構階段。所以,我覺得這真的很有策略。很多資訊都是為了你的利益,政府在維護方面做得很好。真的很順利

[00:11:00] out there and find it and really have a strong, and maintain your own database, for example, what kind of sectors you’re going for, maintain it and have your own database in terms of going forward. I’m sure different

[00:11:00]找到它,然後真正擁有一個强大的資料庫,並維護您自己的資料庫,例如,您要選擇什麼樣的行業,維護它,並擁有自己的資料庫,以便未來發展。我肯定不一樣

[00:11:10] consultancies have different database, of course, but generally, they should be consistent in terms of the objectives supporting their local teams or their investment.

[00:11:10]當然,諮詢公司有不同的資料庫,但一般來說,他們應該在支持本地團隊或投資的目標方面保持一致。

[00:11:18] Darren Wong: [00:11:18] I see. I think

[00:11:18]Darren Wong:[00:11:18]我明白了。我想

[00:11:20] there’s a cool idea that was just in my head is that, in the end of this whole show, what we can do is to have some links, and some kind of guidance to people where they can find these data. And even the

[00:11:20]有一個很酷的想法就是,在整個節目的最後,我們可以做的是建立一些連結,並對人們在哪裡可以找到這些數據進行某種指導。甚至

[00:11:30] report you said just now about what you have issued recently, and so on, put them all on the show notes. The other cool idea, I mean, there are a lot of times

[00:11:30]你剛才說的關於你最近發佈的內容的報告,等等,把它們都寫在節目筆記上。另一個很酷的想法,我是說,有很多次

[00:11:40] because I used to be working in the real estate fund, and there are reports that we know where the reports are. But a lot of people, let’s say for the audience that might not be familiar real estate, just don’t know where to go. So, I think that

[00:11:40]因為我以前在房地產基金工作,有報導說我們知道報告在哪裡。但很多人,比如說對於觀眾來說可能並不熟悉房地產,只是不知道該去哪裡。所以,我認為

[00:11:50] even though having this kind of episode, pointing out, and then having those kinds of things in the show notes to tell people where they can get, is kind of useful. So just like what you said, there

[00:11:50]即使有這樣的插曲,指出,然後在節目筆記中寫上這些東西,告訴人們他們可以去哪裡,這是很有用的。就像你說的,好吧

[00:12:00] are a lot of different information and methods and sources, right? What kind of audience should leverage and then use it when it conducts market research analysis easily at the [00:12:10] moment?

[00:12:00]有很多不同的資訊、方法和來源,對嗎?在[00:12:10]這一刻,什麼樣的受眾在輕鬆進行市場調研分析時,應該利用並使用它?

[00:12:12] Anthony Wong: [00:12:12] Yeah, what I talked about leveraging is really about being resourceful. So what I talked about previously, besides some of the

[00:12:12]Anthony Wong:[00:12:12]是的,我所說的杠杆作用實際上是關於足智多謀。所以我之前說的,除了一些

[00:12:20] sources that I’ve mentioned previously, is really interacting closely with, as a researcher really, interacting closely with

[00:12:20]我之前提到的資源,作為一名研究人員,與他們的互動非常密切

[00:12:30] local brokers and consulting agents, and getting deeper insight in terms of, besides these data from this information, what is the story behind driving these data?

[00:12:30]此外,從這些經紀人那裡得到的更深入的資訊是什麼?

[00:12:40] For example, if the yields are coming down, or the capital values are going up, what is the reason behind it? Is it because

[00:12:40]例如,如果收益率下降,或者資本價值上升,那麼背後的原因是什麼?是因為

[00:12:50] buyers are withholding the asset price, at the same time the flexible lowering the rental prices? There’s all kinds of a trajectory that

[00:12:50]購房者在預扣資產價格的同時,靈活降低租賃價格?有各種各樣的軌跡

[00:13:00] explained the underlying story behind those numbers. Really kind of doing both qualitative, which I talked about interacting with the people on ground, and

[00:13:00]解釋了這些數位背後的故事。真的是既定性又定性,我談到了和地面上的人互動

[00:13:10] quantitative, which is getting the information from the platform. And what kind of storyline and what kind of trajectory, what kind of POV you giving into

[00:13:10]定量,即從平臺獲取資訊。什麼樣的故事情節,什麼樣的軌跡,什麼樣的觀點

[00:13:20] your research reports, and your local brokers team and your local valuation team? And I think there’s a lot of specific indicators out there: GDP,

[00:13:20]你的研究報告,你當地的經紀人團隊和你當地的評估團隊?我認為有很多具體的名額:GDP,

[00:13:30] employment market stock prices. These are great. But there’s got to be some relation back to the real estate market. What is the story telling?

[00:13:30]就業市場股票價格。這些都很棒。但一定和房地產市場有某種關係。這個故事講的是什麼?

[00:13:37] Darren Wong: [00:13:37] I see.

[00:13:37]Darren Wong:[00:13:37]我明白了。

[00:13:40] Would you mind explaining and providing a walkthrough on a process of different kinds of projects that you can start with, like you found on project new-built and second hand

[00:13:40]您介意解釋一下並提供一個關於不同類型項目的過程的演練,您可以從這些項目開始,就像您在新建項目和二手項目中發現的那樣

[00:13:50] assets. Because I think it’d be good idea to give people a framework and say, hey, if you’re looking for deployment project, this is the framework pretty easily how to find resources and maybe new built and see

[00:13:50]資產。因為我認為給人們一個框架,然後說,嘿,如果你在尋找部署項目,這是一個很容易找到資源和新建的框架

[00:14:00] second hand assets.

[00:14:00]二手資產。

[00:14:02] Anthony Wong: [00:14:02] Yeah, I think they’re quite different in terms of new development,

[00:14:02]Anthony Wong:[00:14:02]是的,我認為他們在新的發展方面是完全不同的,

[00:14:10] development project, new buildings, secondhand asset. They’re managed by different investors, different operators, sometimes in private equity they you do it all.

[00:14:10]開發專案、新建築、二手資產。它們由不同的投資者、不同的運營商管理,有時在私募股權中它們都由你來做。

[00:14:20] But I think development project, I think you start off with, well, I’m a researcher myself, so I’m going to give you a researcher POV, not from a developer

[00:14:20]但我認為開發專案,我認為你應該從,好吧,我自己是一個研究員,所以我要給你一個研究員的觀點,而不是一個開發者

[00:14:30] view. So, as I talked about, really go through the lands department seeing one of the attendant notices by the lands that have been issued by the government right now.

[00:14:30]視圖。所以,正如我所說的,真的要去地政總署看看政府現在發佈的一份土地通告。

[00:14:40] Being aware of the policy address, the budget reports, sometimes they talk about, oh, we are aiming, for example, this year, we’re aiming for

[00:14:40]知道施政報告,預算報告,有時他們會說,哦,我們的目標是,例如,今年,我們的目標是

[00:14:50] 80,000 residential units that’s being injected into the market. And obviously, realistic speaking, how much of that is actually being injected, how much of a goal, so you can analyse

[00:14:50]正在向市場注入80000套住宅。很明顯,從現實的角度來說,有多少是被注入的,有多少是一個目標,所以你可以分析

[00:15:00] that in the past historical performance and see, okay, just because the government said 90,000, actually, in the past, there’s only half that’s been issued for it because of different restrictions

[00:15:00]過去的歷史表現,好吧,就因為政府說9萬,實際上,在過去,因為不同的限制,只有一半是為它發放的

[00:15:10] and time delays and development projects. So, understanding a market from these public platforms, I think newbuilt same as development

[00:15:10]時間延遲和開發專案。所以,從這些公共平臺來理解一個市場,我認為新造和開發是一樣的

[00:15:20] project, look at the buildings department, look at the construction timeline, we, a lot of consulting firms manage their own

[00:15:20]項目,看看建築部,看看施工時間表,我們,很多諮詢公司自己管理

[00:15:30] supply pipeline. So, when it will see when are the buildings being completed. That’s really, really important. And see when is a timing coming in, where’s

[00:15:30]供應筦道。所以,它什麼時候能看到建築什麼時候完工。這真的非常重要。看看什麼時候時機到了,在哪

[00:15:40] the liquidity going? I think, in terms of second-hand asset, that ranges quite a lot. It’s really about the

[00:15:40]流動性如何?我認為,就二手資產而言,這個幅度相當大。真的是關於

[00:15:50] investment side, and the investment side of second-hand asset, is really about knowing your market links. For example, in the capital markets team, it’s really

[00:15:50]投資方面,以及二手資產的投資方面,實際上是瞭解你的市場聯系。例如,在資本市場團隊中

[00:16:00] knowing in depth connections that could lead you to some lucrative transactions. And as a researcher, we just have to analyse what are the great

[00:16:00]深入瞭解可能會導致您進行一些有利可圖的交易的深層次聯系。作為一個研究者,我們只需要分析什麼是偉大的

[00:16:10] transactions in the past, and how that reflects the value of that specific client is buying. So, we give as much information as we

[00:16:10]過去的交易,以及如何反映特定客戶的購買價值。所以,我們提供了盡可能多的資訊

[00:16:20] can in the second-hand asset market and let them decide where are the good project to go for some transaction?

[00:16:20]在二手資產市場,讓他們决定好的項目去哪裡進行交易?

[00:16:28] Darren Wong: [00:16:28] I guess [00:16:30] that’s pretty informative as people framework how to think about it. So, when we met up a couple months ago, and I think that we talked about your

[00:16:28]Darren Wong:[00:16:28]我想[00:16:30]在人們如何思考的框架下,這是一個相當豐富的資訊。所以,幾個月前我們見面的時候,我想我們討論過你

[00:16:40] experience in Greater Bay Area when you are researching in the area, and focusing on that, and I think it’s a great idea to use that as a use case to talk about how to conduct research in the

[00:16:40]當您在大灣區進行研究時,體驗一下該地區的情况,並將其作為一個案例來討論如何在

[00:16:50] emerging markets because a lot of audience might be interested in Malaysia asset b&m asset, and obviously, you’re more in the Greater Bay Area. So I want to talk about your experience with that.

[00:16:50]新興市場,因為很多觀眾可能對馬來西亞資產b&m資產感興趣,而且很明顯,你更多的是在大灣區。所以我想談談你的經歷。

[00:17:00] How is the experience with conducting research in emerging market like the Greater Bay Area? How does that process, is it different than having developed area, is it really hard to find information, many more?

[00:17:00]在大灣區等新興市場開展研究的經驗如何?這個過程和開發區有什麼不同嗎?真的很難找到更多的資訊嗎?

[00:17:11] [00:17:10] Anthony Wong: [00:17:11] Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was in China about a year or so. And really on the south side of China, which is the Greater Bay Area, which they call it.

[00:17:11][00:17:10]安東尼·王:[00:17:11]是的,當然。我是說,我在中國呆了一年左右。在中國的南邊,也就是大灣區,他們稱之為大灣區。

[00:17:20] So these cities included two core cities and nine other second tier cities. The two core, obviously, Shenzhen and Guangzhou, which my offices were based at

[00:17:20]所以這些都市包括兩個覈心都市和九個其他二線都市。很明顯,這兩個覈心,深圳和廣州,我的辦公室就在那裡

[00:17:30] when I was conducting research and advisory business there from another consulting firm. I think it’s a lot different doing research and doing development in China,

[00:17:30]當時我在另一家諮詢公司做研究和諮詢業務。我覺得在中國做研究和開發有很大不同,

[00:17:40] because in the sense that as a researcher, marketing transparency is not as great as Hong Kong. For example, maturity of real estate market information is really, really difficult to retrieve.

[00:17:40]因為從某種意義上說,作為一個研究者,市場行銷透明度不如香港。比如,房地產市場的成熟度資訊確實很難檢索。

[00:17:50] There’s no united platform, as I talked about things like EPRC, which shows all the transaction for not that expensive

[00:17:50]沒有統一的平臺,就像我談到的EPRC一樣,它顯示所有的交易,而不是那麼昂貴

[00:18:00] mountain subscription fee, or lands apartment or buildings department where you can just go directly and get the information. And so I think transparency is really a one big thing. They

[00:18:00]山地訂閱費,或土地公寓或建築部,您可以直接前往獲取資訊。所以我認為透明度是一件大事。他們

[00:18:10] do have a platform called CREIS, which is the China Real Estate Intelligence System. And that is a hefty heavy price subscription allowing real estate

[00:18:10]有一個叫做CREIS的平臺,就是中國房地產情報系統。這是一筆巨大的高價認購,允許房地產

[00:18:20] petitioners to gain access to, for example, land values, residential transaction. But again, the downside is that how much of that data is accurate in China, because

[00:18:20]申請者獲得土地價值、住宅交易等資訊。但另一方面,中國的數據有多少是準確的,因為

[00:18:30] sometimes data has always been something that we as a researcher is concerned about. So, doing real estate research, compared

[00:18:30]作為一名研究人員,有時數據一直是我們關心的問題。所以,做房地產研究,比較

[00:18:40] to Hong Kong, takes a lot more time in the sense that we have to, instead of just relying on the data, sometimes you have to go on site and verify, is this project completed, and is this

[00:18:40]到香港,需要更多的時間,因為我們必須,而不是僅僅依賴數據,有時你必須去現場核實,這個項目是否已經完成,這是不是

[00:18:50] development actually has that much of a tendency in terms of vacancy. So when I was working and travelling between two cities and

[00:18:50]發展實際上在空缺方面有很大的趨勢。所以當我在兩個城市之間工作和旅行時

[00:19:00] Shenzhen, give you an example. My team members and I have to visit a lot of undeveloped office sites. For example, in Guangzhou and the south side, there’s a

[00:19:00]深圳,舉個例子。我和我的團隊成員不得不參觀許多未開發的辦公地點。例如,在廣州和南區,有一個

[00:19:10] second tier city called Foshan, luckily, we had a company car so we can go there, but we have to actually visit these retail sites and see

[00:19:10]二線都市佛山,幸運的是,我們有一輛公司的車,所以我們可以去那裡,但我們必須去這些零售點看看

[00:19:20] what other vacancies going on there. And we have to talk to local brokers to understand what are the situation that’s been going on in the market in terms of retail,

[00:19:20] 那裡還有什麼空缺。我們必須和當地的經紀人談談,瞭解零售市場的情况,

[00:19:30] walking through different models and analysing the guesstimation of what the vacancy rates are because it’s hard to really, really retrieve those data in

[00:19:30]瀏覽不同的模型,分析空置率的猜測,因為很難真正、真正地檢索到這些數據

[00:19:40] China. So, I think doing research in China requires a lot of time, patience, years of experience, being in the market

[00:19:40]中國。所以,我認為在中國做研究需要大量的時間,耐心,多年的經驗,在市場上

[00:19:50] and really swimming along it and having deeper connections with the local investors. When you thought about doing China, relationships number one really important.

[00:19:50]並且真正地遊走於此,並與當地投資者建立了更深入的聯系。當你在做一個重要的關係的時候。

[00:20:00] So these clean market players, they give you a lot of insights in terms of making the job a lot easier.

[00:20:00]所以這些清潔市場的參與者,他們給了你很多關於讓工作更輕鬆的見解。

[00:20:06] Darren Wong: [00:20:06] I feel like we should ask Gary just to find the data for us,

[00:20:06]Darren Wong:[00:20:06]我覺得我們應該讓Gary幫我們找到數據,

[00:20:10] because there is so much hassle. And then I think there’s similar stories that when people told me about, when a couple years ago, half a half a decade ago, they

[00:20:10]因為麻煩太多了。我覺得有類似的故事,當人們告訴我,幾年前,5年前,他們

[00:20:20] went to Vietnam or Malaysia, same thing is that like, they have a very, very hard time. And obviously, right now because the demand is so high, they start building the whole infrastructure of data and information. But before that was

[00:20:20]去了越南或馬來西亞,同樣的事情是,他們的日子非常非常非常艱難。顯然,現在由於需求如此之高,他們開始構建數據和資訊的整個基礎設施。但在那之前

[00:20:30] really that, even you want to find out what’s going on, you got to be fly all the way there, be on the ground, you have to have two hours car ride, bumpy car ride, really measure

[00:20:30]真的,即使你想知道發生了什麼事,你也必須一路飛到那裡,趴在地上,你必須有兩個小時的車程,顛簸的車程,真正的量測

[00:20:40] every single thing to know what the hell is going on, because the data wasn’t there. So I think these are things that like office for emerging market, that’s the tricky part. And then which comes to

[00:20:40]每件事都要知道到底發生了什麼,因為沒有數據。所以我認為這些都像是新興市場辦公室,這是個棘手的問題。然後是哪一個

[00:20:50] the next question. What are some tips and insight you will share with the audience, especially when it comes to locally and abroad? Or in this case, emerging markets when the data is not as available?

[00:20:50]下一個問題。你將與觀眾分享哪些技巧和見解,尤其是在涉及本地和國外時?或者在這種情況下,新興市場的數據在什麼時候是不可用的?

[00:21:02] [00:21:00] Anthony Wong: [00:21:02] Yeah, I have worked in China, wouldn’t say a long time, and Hong Kong, a little more familiar with. I would say,

[00:21:02] [00:21:00] Anthony Wong: [00:21:02]對,再熟悉一點,我就不會在香港工作了。我會說,

[00:21:10] doing good research is about do what you can, honestly. Be open minded and resourceful, and talk to as many people, so if you want to go to a different

[00:21:10]誠實地說,做好研究就是盡你所能。思想開放,足智多謀,和盡可能多的人交談,所以如果你想去一個不同的地方

[00:21:20] country to do your investment, not just only ask a couple brokers, is this a good site to invest or are you took a plane trip there, and then

[00:21:20]國家做你的投資,不僅僅是問幾個經紀人,這是一個投資的好地方還是你坐飛機去那裡,然後

[00:21:30] “Oh, I like this place, that seems like a good vacation place”? But also really knowing the people, real estate is about community. So knowing what kind of location that

[00:21:30]“哦,我喜歡這個地方,那看起來是個不錯的度假勝地”?但也真正瞭解人,房地產是關於社區的。所以知道什麼樣的地點

[00:21:40] you’re intended to invest? What kind of community residents that gives you the sense of safety, sense of good education, good school boundaries? These are really, really important. And really make use of

[00:21:40]你打算投資?什麼樣的社區居民能給你安全感、良好的教育意識、良好的學校邊界?這些真的非常重要。真正地利用

[00:21:50] the resources that is provided by the local government. And Hong Kong, we’re really privileged to have a lot of resources that is issued out there. For emerging market, not so much, so

[00:21:50]當地政府提供的資源。而香港,我們真的很榮幸有很多資源是在那裡發行的。對於新興市場來說,不算太多,所以

[00:22:00] sometimes you might have to spend a little more time, a little more money, and a little more liquidity in terms of knowing the market or even worse. But the upside is that there’s more gains on

[00:22:00]有時候你可能需要花更多的時間、更多的錢和更多的流動性來瞭解市場,甚至更糟。但有利的一面是會有更多的收益

[00:22:10] top of saturated market like Hong Kong. Second of all, be really analytical and insightful. How to spot trends, as I talked about really read a

[00:22:10]香港等飽和市場的頂端。其次,要有分析力和洞察力。如何發現趨勢,就像我說的那樣

[00:22:20] lot of market news. Sometimes this news might give you a really good suspense, but how much is that actually reflecting the market, right? So really be

[00:22:20]很多市場新聞。有時候這條新聞可能會給你一個很好的懸念,但這實際上反映了市場多少,對吧?真的嗎

[00:22:30] critical in terms of some of news outlets. And also, be both quantitative and qualitative. Don’t just rely on data, rely on talking to different people and

[00:22:30]對一些新聞媒體來說很關鍵。而且,既要定量又要定性。不要只依賴數據,要依賴於與不同的人交談和

[00:22:40] understanding where the sources are coming. At the end of the day, you really start off real estate. Because real estate, everything

[00:22:40]瞭解資訊來源的來源。歸根結底,你真的要從房地產開始。因為房地產,一切

[00:22:50] is about location, right? So really understanding the locational context of it, from transportation, to building

[00:22:50]是關於位置的,對吧?所以要真正理解它的地理環境,從交通到建築

[00:23:00] highways, to geopolitical stability, to Macro, all kind of stuff. I think these are all really essential in terms of investing elsewhere in a place that you’re not

[00:23:00]高速公路,地緣政治穩定,Mac,各種各樣的東西。我認為這些都是投資其他地方的必要條件

[00:23:10] familiar with, for example, in emerging markets.

[00:23:10]熟悉新興市場。

[00:23:12] Darren Wong: [00:23:12] I think there’s a very good takeaway, because that’s something it’s easier said than done. It is a lot of homework, but you’ve got to do it because you’re

[00:23:12]Darren Wong:[00:23:12]我認為有一個非常好的外賣,因為這是說起來容易做起來難的事情。工作太多了,但你必須做,因為你

[00:23:20] putting years of savings into something that you might not get return or get a good return that is expected until years afterward. So before we jump into the

[00:23:20]把多年的積蓄投入到一些你可能得不到回報或是很好的回報的東西上,而這些東西要等到幾年後才能得到回報。所以在我們跳進

[00:23:30] data centre topic for the audience, maybe it just ends right here. How would they return to you to find out more about your work and yourself?

[00:23:30]針對觀眾的資料中心主題,也許就在這裡結束。他們會如何回到你身邊去瞭解你的工作和你自己?

[00:23:40] [00:23:39] Anthony Wong: [00:23:39] Yeah, for sure. So really, our work is really publicly available. You know, a lot of people don’t make use of it. We do a lot of consulting projects that you guys are

[00:23:40][00:23:39]安東尼·王:[00:23:39]是的,當然。所以說真的,我們的工作是公開的。你知道,很多人都不利用它。我們做了很多諮詢專案

[00:23:50] more welcome to check it out. It’s in the Colliers International website. And you go on, there’s a research tab that you click on research. And inside, there’s different sectors and you select

[00:23:50]歡迎大家來看看。在高力國際的網站上。你繼續,有一個研究標籤,你點擊研究。在裡面,有不同的區域,你可以選擇

[00:24:00] whatever region that you want to invest in, for example, you want to go with Malaysia, we have Malaysian quarterly reports that shows four or five different sectors office, industrial, retail, residential,

[00:24:00]無論你想投資哪個地區,例如,你想和馬來西亞一起投資,我們有馬來西亞的季度報告,顯示了四到五個不同的行業:辦公、工業、零售、住宅,

[00:24:10] capital markets that we publish reports consistently. So anyone who’s interested in the market, make use of the resource that we produce, because we want to help clients, we want to develop client relationships to

[00:24:10]我們一貫發佈報告的資本市場。所以任何對市場感興趣的人,都要利用我們生產的資源,因為我們想幫助客戶,我們想發展客戶關係

[00:24:20] go there. But honestly, we are really personal. So if you want to reach out to me personally, add me on LinkedIn, Anthony Wong. I’ve been called Colliers

[00:24:20]去那裡。但老實說,我們真的很私人。所以,如果你想親自聯系我,請在LinkedIn上加上我,安東尼·黃。我被稱為科利爾

[00:24:30] International, and you can find me there or reach out to my email via anthony.wong@colliers.com. I’m always able to help you find real estate

[00:24:30]國際,您可以在那裡找到我或通過安東尼·王@高力網.我總能幫你找房地產

[00:24:40] solutions or giving you just basic guidance in terms of career path, you want to go into the real estate or real estate research.

[00:24:40]解決方案或者只是在職業道路上給你一些基本的指導,你想要進入房地產或房地產研究。

[00:24:47] Darren Wong: [00:24:47] Yeah, obviously I’ll ensure all the links we

[00:24:47]Darren Wong:[00:24:47]是的,顯然我會確保我們所有的連結

[00:24:50] said before, the links for different public information and obviously Colliers, for example, the information you have, the report you have and the contact information. So for the people who are

[00:24:50]前面說過,不同公共資訊的連結,顯然是打給你的,比如你掌握的資訊、你掌握的報告和聯繫方式。所以對於那些

[00:25:00] interested to learn more about data centre, we are going to have a nice episode coming up within less than a week time, and then yeah, that’s it.

[00:25:00]有興趣瞭解更多有關資料中心的資訊,我們將在不到一周的時間內推出一集精彩的節目,然後是的,就這樣。

[00:25:07] Anthony Wong: [00:25:07] I’m looking

[00:25:07]安東尼·王:[00:25:07]我在找

[00:25:10] forward to it.

[00:25:10]前進。

[00:25:10] Darren Wong: [00:25:10] Yeah, for sure.

[00:25:10]Darren Wong:[00:25:10]是的,當然。

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

South Korean Real Estate For Beginners With Leo Wong


South Korean Real Estate For Beginners With Leo Wong

There are a lot of talks with the South Korea real estate market. We want to give an introductory video to allow overseas investors to know about the South Korea real estate market and discover where the opportunities are.

▶ Connect with the guest

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/leo-wong-067370146/

▶ Source & Supporting:

2030 Seoul plan: https://www.seoulsolution.kr/en/content/2030-seoul-plan

CHFT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zw3vT-BxJpdwtkAyLmdt4xHLZMFj7cam/view?usp=sharing

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As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

▶ Transcript

Darren Wong: Hey, Leo, thanks for coming in.

Leo: Hey, hi, Darren, thank you for inviting me.

Darren Wong: Would you mind telling the audience about yourself?

Leo: My name is Leo Wong and I represent Fonto real estate. We are a firm of mostly  development projects in many different places around the world. Currently, we are most concentrated in San Francisco, the Bay Area in the United States. And also in South Korea. We already have some completed projects in those cities, and we’re looking to expand soon, just probably waiting for the economic situation to improve a bit. And then we’ll get ready and push out our products.

Darren Wong: I see. Yeah, it’s interesting because when I talk to your team, I really feel that it’s good that you guys cover different regions, and today we focus on South Korea, because a lot of people always tell me, “Hey, I want to invest in different places in Asia.” And myself, I’m not very familiar with South Korea so it’s good to have someone like you tell the audience and myself more about it. So for them and myself who might not understand the regions of South Korea, would you mind giving a brief introduction and description of how the city’s made up? And then what are a few areas that overseas investors tend to invest in? Lastly, what is the opportunity in terms of a macro point of view in the next few years?

Leo: Okay, sure. Let me kind of give a macro picture of the whole country first and then we’ll drill into Seoul, which is the major attention. First, administratively, South Korea has one special city, which is Seoul, and one special self governance city which is Sejong, and six metropolitan cities, Busan, Incheon, Daegu, Dajeon, Ulsan and Gwangju, and except these eight major cities, all lands are divided into a total of nine provinces called Bo, including one special autonomous province, that’s Jeju Island. And all these cities and toll on the same administrative regions. So if you’re familiar with the system in Japan, for example, then it’s pretty similar. So they have Philly, special cities, and then they have other prefectures. Okay. So, if we drill into Seoul now, especially, then, let me explain some of the major areas. So there are three major business districts within Seoul. The central business district, there’s the hongyun area, and then the second one is called Gangnam district, okay, oh, we call it Gangnam. And then the third one is called Yeouido business district. So, basically, just for ease of references, we call the first one CBD to central business district and then the second one is GBD, G for Gangnam and end of third this YDP which is the Yeong-deungpo. And these three main business district in Seoul houses about about 67% of the city’s largest office buildings. And while the first one, CBD tends to have a mixture of tenants such as news agencies, financial institutions and government agencies GBD tends to have more tenants from the IT sector and YDP tends to have more tenants from the financial industries, because it also  houses the KRX which is the Korean Stock Exchange. And one thing to note is that CBD and GBD are not just business districts, but they are also very famous for shopping, okay, CBD is within walking distance from Myeongdong, which has a lot of mainstream brands and GBD also has a lot of luxurious brands, flagships of course. And the second thing about the geographic features of Seoul is that it is divided in half by the Han River, okay. The local people called the area on the north shore of the river, Gangbuk. So, gang is the river in pok east north, okay. And area south of the Han River is Gangnam. So in this case, the word Gangnam is used differently. The first one is just referring to the GBD. In the second use is referring to the whole area south of the Han River. So in the 70s 1970s, over about 75% of Seouls population live in Gangbuk and Gangnam was at that time mostly farmland, and the government wish to diversify the population and to also cool down the Gangbuk real estate prices as they’re already tons of demands at that time on the lands of Gangbuk. The government limits new constructions in Gangbuk, starting in 1972, and encourages the development in Gangnam. So as a result, Gangnam’s real estate prices have started to skyrocket. And as a 2020 Gangnam has become the richest neighborhood not only in Seoul, but in entire South Korea. So it’s pretty ironic, you know, Gangnam was already developed to cool down Gangbuk. And now Gangnam becomes very expensive by his own right. And also Seoul has several satellite cities, just like most of the really big cities in the world, and the surrounding regions, okay including those satellite cities, is what we call Sudogwon. Collectively, it means the capital area in Korea, and some of the more well known satellite cities are Incheon,  Seongnam and Suwon. In properly some people already notice that the airport we use for to travel to Seoul is in Incheon.

Leo: Yeah, and let me also give some background about macroeconomics. Now, for Korea it has a severe aging populations just similar to the neighboring countries like Japan and in other developed countries like Germany or like France, okay. So, the fertility rate is continuously decreasing and the government expected in 2029, the population growth rate is expected to turn negative, the life expectancy has been steadily increasing so, people are getting older okay, and probably due to the improving medicine. So, in terms of the overall demographic structure it has been changing and expected to affect the country’s economy in the next decade. The population age 65 or above is expected to exceed 20% of the total population by 2025. And this age group, the population of this age group is expected to exceed 40% by 2051. So there’s really a large proportion of the whole population. So, in this case, the supply of labor will decrease because a lot of people are already really old and already retired and people will start saving more money for retirement, okay. So, in the simplest sense, more savings means less consumption, okay. And also according to the statistical department, the average number of household members is expected to decrease from about 2.5 persons in 2017 to about 2 in 2047. So, this decrease means that as time goes on, there will be more single person households. And as of now, many of the single person household members are in their 20s or 30s. But in the long run, they will become older. So, this decrease in single person households is likely to affect consumption patterns. And finally, I think another important factor to consider is the populations concentration in Seoul. While Seouls total land area is just about like 0.6% of the entire country, around 20% of the country’s population reside in Seoul. So urbanization is very severe, and it is expected to further accelerate while the population especially young people is flowing into capital areas, such as Seoul and the capital city, the metropolitan area, including the satellite cities, the population in non capital areas has been steadily decreasing over the past decades. And this occurs to some metropolitan cities as well, such as Busan. And they’re already young people flowing out of those big cities other than Seoul.

Leo: So let me talk about some of the promising area in businesses. Because of the increase in single person households that I just mentioned, the online purchase market is expanding, and more and more items are available online. In the past few years, the online food shopping has been a hit in South Korea, to store fruits, meat and vegetable, in fresh state a lot of more warehouses are in demand and were built. The new supply of warehouses in the capital city area was more than 2 million square meters in 2019. And difficult was about two times of the new supply in the year 2016/2017. So this trend is expected to only accelerate in the next few years, because as we are now facing COVID-19, more customers are turning to online malls to do their shoppings online.

Darren Wong: That’s very informative, because even from your explanation, I can see a lot of detail of what it’s going to become in a long term prospect. So you know, you mentioned a lot of different areas, a lot different things, do you think some of those areas are overrated for foreign investors?

Leo: I think from our perspective, we look at some of the really important sectors of whether the demand or the supply of an area are determined. And let me try to start from the beginning. To give the short answer first, is that I think currently Jeju islands is quite overrated. So in general, the most important determining factor of the real estate prices, at least in South Korea is the availability of jobs. For example, in South Chungcheong province,  Cheonan’s their house prices has been on the rise in the past decade because it is where the SK Hynix plants are built. So on the other hand, in the same province in a very similar locality,  Gongju and Buyeo, they’re very famous for cultural Heritage’s. So for example, they have much more tourists, but they have much less jobs. So in our understanding the property prices has risen much less. So we believe this fact that the availability of jobs in the region is the probably the most important determining factor for the real estate prices. So if there are more jobs, except of course, like, you know, jobs related to tourism, then there would be more people and more demands, and so the housing prices would rise. And in this perspective, Seoul has overwhelmingly more jobs than in any other areas in South Korea. And within Seoul itself, the GBD the Gangnam district has about 1.5 million white collar jobs. And the combined population in Busan and Daegu, the two major metropolitan cities in South Korea is 5 million. So from this, we see that Seoul real estate prices, especially in Gangnam, is bound to keep rising, even if the government has introduced a series of regulation in the past few years to inhibit Gangnams housing price rise, it is inevitable that the region’s real estate prices will keep rising. So we think that Seoul’s real estate prices are not overrated now and it’s a right decision to invest in the city, especially this Gangnam region with a strong fundamental support. And in contrast, Jeju Island is very heavily reliant on tourist industry in also Chinese capitals. And as we see in the recent months, the unstable relationship between the Chinese government and South Korean government and also COVID-19, the tourists from China and also Chinese capital have been decreasing in the past two years. So, Jeju Island also does not have a lot of white collar jobs or industrial jobs that could attract people to relocate to Jeju. So the real estate prices in Jeju Island has decreased in the past few years. And for this reason, the same reason we think that investing Jeju Island right now is not a good option. And also where in Seoul should investors explore other than the three city centers, we suggest investors to look at a information called the 2030 Seoul plan. And that is the urban master plan that Seoul Metropolitan Government announced in 2017. Okay, so from that plan, you can see that the government selected three city centers and also seven sub centers. And while the city centers already have a lot of jobs, we assume that in the seven sub centers and regional centers, jobs and residents will increase in the coming decades. So whether it’s a flat or small stakes for property, we believe that it’s profitable to invest in those areas, or at least the areas that have easy transportation connections with those areas. So we should pay attention to those places where jobs are about to increase. And we believe that if there are jobs, then there will be people and there will be demand for real estate.

Darren Wong: I see. But how would we suggest differently for investors that are either planning to sell to use or investment only?

Leo: I just mentioned before, the real estate market is rising especially in the hot areas that we just mentioned. The current South Korean government is strongly against individuals owning more than one residential unit. So they have introduced 18 new regulations since 2018. The same applies to non South Korean nationals purchasing residential real estate in Korea. So we strongly recommend not to buy more than one property or otherwise one will be subject to very high tax.

Darren Wong: I see. When it comes to tax, right, what kind of tax and how much would an oversea investor be taxed at?

Leo: As of now the overseas investors are subject to the same taxation as South Koreans, locals when it comes to owning properties. In other words, currently, there is no taxation that specifically bars foreigners from investing in South Korean real estate. There are about four, there are four major tax or levies to the government. The first one is a Stamp Duty, okay. And it could be up to USD $320, depending on the federal property, and the stamp duties come comparatively low compared to other countries. But there’s also another thing called the Acquisition tax, it ranges from 1% to 4% depending on the value of the property, okay, and also like its location. And there’s the third tax, which is called the Withholding tax, it ranges between 6% to 40% depending on the property value. This Withholding tax is very similar to property tax in other jurisdiction that you have to pay periodically, as long as you hold the property. And finally, there’s the Capital Gains tax. These capital gains tax is again, the nature is well known to most investors. Basically, it looks at the capital gain, that means the increase or appreciation in value between the time that you purchase the property and the value you sell the property and the difference would be the basis of the taxation.

Darren Wong: I see. How does COVID-19 impact the market and what are some opportunities investors should look at right now?

Leo: Due to COVID-19, as mentioned before, ecommerce is in more demand than ever. So there’s now more robust demand for logistics spaces, especially those with low temperatures to store vegetables. Another potential opportunity lies in smaller size offices. Due to COVID-19, some large scale companies reclassified their employees into smaller groups based on their residence and asks them to work at different offices for for the time being. And likewise, it is being that COVID-19 may be a stimulus for the decentralizing work scheme in the near future.

Darren Wong: I see. Like I think everything you said so far is so informative that even in my head, that picture is very clear on the opportunity. Beyond that, what are some tips and advice you would suggest to the audience? And is there anything they should be aware of when it comes to investing in South Korea’s real estate market?

Leo: I think we briefly talked about this. If one is to invest in residential property, then we should consider just investing in one property, rather than multiple properties because currently government’s letting high taxation upon those who own more than one property and also in Korea, the demand for hotel depends a lot on the number of Chinese tourists. This means that if the relationship between the People’s Republic of China in South Korea becomes more unstable then hospitality industry will get a large impact after the COVID-19 recovery, and of course, unless we see that the South Korean tourists market, the composition, changes to a much more touristy place from countries other than PRC otherwise then this is still a risk to hospitality investors.

Darren Wong: I see. You know, I have one more question because it’s something that my friend has asked me to ask you. It’s that, are there any hip places that a lot of younger crowds are willing to pay more rent for? In addition, where are a few places that a lot of more commercial activities are working in Seoul and that is worth looking into?

Leo: Well, in Seoul, you can classify the cities into different kinds of districts, namely the financial wealth district, hipstore districts, tourist education, and residential and two of the really popular so called hip places are Hongdae and Leetaewon, seems like early 2000s. But in the past decade that means from about 2010 to recently, it’s been undergoing refurbishment certification, so a lot of artists cafe and small size restaurants have moved out. Also in the past decade, Yeonnam-dong and Seongsu-dong has gained a lot of popularity among young people and they are quickly rising as hip places. Yeonnam-dong is located near Hongdae, the area has been a middle class residential district since the 70s. But instead of the high rise apartments, the area was mostly made up of about three storeys houses since the opening of Gyeongui Line the forest park nearby in 2016. The area went through a lot of commercialization, and several houses in Yeonnam-dong changed their usage in the past decade and became cafes and restaurants. Also, Seongsu-dong is located opposite to the GBD Gangnam business district across the Han River. So there’s a subway line and it takes around 20 minutes from Seongsu-dong to GBD. The area in Seongsu-dong used to be heavily industrial. We have a lot of small factories and workshops. But the artists and cafe owners from Hongdae started to move into this area, and they renovated the old factory size and turned them into from what’s crusty to rusty-interior design cafes and restaurants. And we contributed a lot to changing the overall atmosphere of these districts.

Darren Wong: It’s good. I mean, next time I’ll ask you which cafe to go to. It’s very informative. Thank you so much. Because I think, even for me you supplied some good photos and maps and everything to me. I’ll put everything in the show notes. And even during this video, we can go side by side with different stuff where people can see, trace it, and be like “Okay, this is what it looks like and what cities there.”  So, for people who are interested to look and talk to you more about South Korea’s real estate, how can they reach out to you and talk to you further?

Leo: I will leave my email address to you and they would be able to assess me directly. And that would primarily be the way we conduct communication between our staff and our potential customers.

Darren Wong: I get it. Okay, I’ll obviously put everything in the show notes. So I just want to say thank you so much for a very informative interview. And then hopefully next time you come in, you can tell us more about San Francisco, what’s going on over there.

Leo: Well, thank you very much.

Darren Wong: Thank you and have a good one, then.

Leo: You too.

Darren Wong: Bye.

Leo: Bye.


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Denzity Insights: Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks


Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks

Connect with Gordon:

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordon-franks-19279715/
  • WeChat: LFSHKGordon 
  • Email: gordonfranks@lfsbrokers.com 

Emerging Property Markets In The United Kingdom With Gordon Franks

In the past, we had an episode covering the United Kingdom real estate market, focusing on London. Since many investors are interested in regions outside of London in the United Kingdom, we’ve decided to invite Gordon, a real estate agent and mortgage broker, to share his insights on those regions. We have covered topics such as:

  • The areas overseas investors tend to invest in the United Kingdom
  • The areas that are overrated or underrated
  • The market outlook
  • And more.

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Sources

Lifestyle Brokers: https://www.lfsbrokers.com

NOMA Regeneration: https://www.noma-manchester.com

HS Two Rail Link: https://www.hs2.org.uk

Stamp Duty: Stamp duty is a kind of tax that is imposed in the form of stamps on legal documents by the government while buying a property.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stampduty.asp

Capital Appreciation: Capital appreciation or capital gain is an increase in the value of any investment.

https://www.fool.com/millionacres/real-estate-basics/real-estate-terms/what-capital-appreciation/

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Finding clients: Online VS face-to-face?

Finding clients, online or offline? It is now easier to find clients and promote oneself, but on the other hand, the market is getting much more competitive. Let’s find out which way is better.

As real estate agents, we both hate and love the Internet. On one hand, it is now easier to find clients and promote oneself, but on the other hand, the market is getting much more competitive. The online way or the traditional way, which one is better? Let’s find out.

Face-to-face real estate expert

👍🏻Easier to secure clients

Usually, when clients come to consult you face-to-face, they’re not just “browsing around”, especially for making an important financial decision like real estate equity investments. They probably heard about you from a friend and did a little market comparison and research before they decide to talk to you. Clients do not want to waste their time and effort to compare many agents and agencies. In these cases, all you have to do is be prepared for the meeting, show the clients your expertise and share your professional experiences. If your first impression is good enough, the clients will probably hire you right away.

👎🏻Limited marketing channels

Traditional marketing channels for real estate experts can be limited. There are not a lot of platforms, like Denzity, for you to showcase your expertise or communicate with your potential clients. So, it can be challenging to find clients. All you can do is treat every job seriously and hope that your clients will introduce you to their friends.

Online real estate expert

👍🏻More room for you to shine

Social media is a whole new planet for you to explore. With social media platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook, every individual can do their branding. Under this competitive environment, most real estate experts have a few areas of expertise, like Malaysia real estate market, Vietnam real estate equity investment, or feng shui. Agents can share their insights on these social media platforms and reach out to potential clients. Now there are even prop-tech platforms like Denzity where you can communicate with potential clients directly online. With the right techniques, you can get more exposure than ever.

👍🏻Easier communication

Online meeting technology has certainly improved greatly under the pandemic. It is now easy to do video calls no matter where you are, all you need is a stable Internet connection. You can easily communicate with your clients, answer their questions more promptly, and make a better impression. Agents can also join online real estate community groups to share their professional experiences and insights into real estate equity investment enthusiasts. Online communication allows agents to interact with other experts and learn from each other.

👎🏻Real estate agent market is more competitive

Clients can now browse the profile of thousands of real estate experts in like three hours with the Internet. This makes agents harder to stand out in the crowd. Yet, you can treat this as an opportunity to develop your specialty. Become an expert in a particular niche, like rental problems, oversea real estate equity investments, or immigration. This way you can attract more clients and stay competitive.

It is important to maintain your edge in this competitive environment. To do so, you have to invest in yourself. Be your public relations and marketing manager. Build your reputation by creating an online profile. Show the world what you’ve got. Join Denzity today and get your name listed on our extensive directory so that you can reach out to your potential clients. If you have anything particularly interesting you want to share, or you’re specialized in a certain area in real estate equity investment, let us know and maybe you will be the next real estate expert featured in our latest educational series Denzity Insights!

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Denzity Insights: Canada Real Estate Outlook 2020 With Robert Veerman


Canada Real Estate Outlook 2020 With Robert Veerman

Connect:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-veerman-26a88345/

The Canadian real estate market has been popular among overseas investors for the past few years. As some of our users asked us about how the COVID-19 and economic downtown have impacted the market, we think it’d be great to have a real estate expert to shed light on this topic. Today, we have Robert sharing his insights.

Robert Veerman is a commercial real estate broker at CBRE Canada. He buys and sells investment and development properties in Canada with a focus on Vancouver and Toronto.

  • The impact of COVID on the Canadian real estate market
  • The shift in investors preference
  • The outlook for the remainder of 2020
  • Any major macro influences that would affect the market

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Sources:

US Federal Reserve: https://www.federalreserve.gov

Anchored Retail:

Safe Haven Investment Destination: In simple words, safe-haven investments are investments that are promising investments and have a comparatively short period of market failure

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/safe-haven.asp

China Global Tax Scheme:

H1B Visa: The H1B visa is an employment visa issued by the US government to foreign nationals in order to work in the US temporarily.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html

Capitalization Rates: Capitalization rate or cap rate is the percentage rate of a property’s income.

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/valuation/capitalization-cap-rate/

Interest Rate: The interest rate is a certain percentage of the amount of money lent or borrowed that is charged by the lenders to the borrowers upon returning the original amount over a period of time. 

https://www.thebalance.com/what-are-interest-rates-and-how-do-they-work-3305855

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Our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

https://www.patinadesignlab.com/

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Darren :  Hey, Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert:  Thanks, Darren. Glad to be here.

Darren : Yeah, I mean, this is very exciting because we’ve been friends for so long, I think for more almost two decades. And it’s a good time to talk about our jam, real estate. So, you know, for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them about yourself and your work? 

Robert: Sure, yeah. My name is Robert Veerman. I’m a commercial real estate broker at CBRE in Canada. I cover two major markets here, Vancouver and Toronto in buying and selling real estate. 

Darren: So for the audience, right, I used to live in Vancouver. So when it comes to like Vancouver real estate, I’m always very excited. Because even though every time I go back to Vancouver, there’s so many changes. So there’s one thing that I’m sure a lot of people are curious about, it’s how has Covid-19 impacted the Canadian Real Estate Market at large, especially in Toronto and Vancouver markets? 

Robert: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think Covid definitely is impacted. Everything everywhere around the world. I’ll just talk about it from a timeline perspective. So Covid, kind of first hit, or I would say the lockdowns first happened in Canada, in the middle of March. So for the first two months, I’d say in March and April, there was this virtual shutdown of everything. And that meant for real estate as well. So for residential real estate, as well as commercial real estate, I’d say all kinds of activity trading just stopped. But what was happening in the background, in a huge way was everyone was just trying to figure out how Covid and how this lockdown was going to impact their portfolios, how it was going to impact their real estate. So I was spending a lot of time with clients at that point, not buying and selling stuff, but helping them just shore up the portfolio, buying a lot of data points to understand that. I mean, real estate, fundamentally, is user landlord, you collect rent from the tenants, and then usually the landlord has some kind of financing on it, and you’ll use that rent to pay the banks. So the fact that this is worth running, and there’s this whole fear that, you know, people couldn’t pay rent, because, you know, for example, restaurants, they couldn’t, serve food, and they couldn’t pay rent, they had no money, and the landowners wouldn’t get money, and the banks don’t get money, and the whole system would basically shut down. So there’s this whole fear of having a liquidity crisis. That being said, the, I guess the government response, federal, provincially, and municipally, has been fantastic. And they have definitely worked very, very hard to create a lot of liquidity. And I’d say overall in the industry, everyone in it, from banks, to landlords, to tenants to government have been very, very, very hands on and very shoulder to shoulder working together to make sure things are okay. So now I’d say since then, moving forward to June, July, August, September, things have definitely stabilized. There’s been a new norm that’s set in. And honestly, things are really back to business with, you know, covid precautions, of course.

Darren :  That’s good to know, because it’s something that I hear a lot. And then obviously we’re now in September, and a lot of places around the world are recovering. So due to Covid-19 and the economic impacts, right, do you see a shift in investors preference when it comes to their mandates? 

Robert:  Yeah, for sure. I mean, everyone has shifted their mandates. I mean, to a degree, like the most flexible guys, like myself have definitely shifted my business. The private equity guys, you know, the individual investors have definitely shifted their business, even like the larger institutional investors, obviously, they have a lot at stake, they have a lot of existing portfolio, a lot of existing assets, but even they have adjusted their outlook on the market. Generally speaking, most things have come out of it unscathed. Most guys, artists in steel position. Now there have been a few shakeups like three deals I’m working on right now are receivership deals.They’re you know, properties where the landlord or the owner base a default on their mortgage and has no means to repay it and the bank has been possessing them and forcing them to sell and I’d say a lot of private investors naturally gravitated towards those deals. And, you know, there’s definitely a frenzy of activity, I’d say, from everyone across the board asking me, “Robert, you know, what kind of deals do you have, like receivership deals? Like, Where can I buy 50 cents on the dollar.” And this definitely did occur mostly in the development space, because those are at the most risk defaulting, you know, like, it’s not a development property it’s not like a income property, where you’re just collecting rent from a tenant. Development property, you know, you require certain things like pre sales, you know, you have ongoing construction, and you have much higher leverage loans. So if anything stops for whatever reason, it can have a much bigger impact on your bottom line. So, that’s definitely happened. But that being said, it hasn’t been the norm. Like, there’s definitely more people asking for that kind of product than there is available. And the pricing, though, it’s not exactly what people expected, you know, people are looking for 50 cents of the dollar. But the reality is, it’s more like 70, 80, 90 cents in the dollar. Because at the end of the day, a lot of these properties are backed by mortgages from banks, and the banks will have loan to value ratios of, you know, 70%, 80%, and the banks themselves don’t want to lose money. Yeah, I mean, I think another big trend I would say is that debtors cheat. And it’s definitely here to stay. And, you know, the US Federal Reserve now is that they’re gonna keep rates low for the foreseeable future. The Bank of Canada is really in lockstep. And financing overall is like much cheaper, it was very hard to get in the beginning of Covid, because the banks themselves couldn’t even underwrite what was happening. But now that things have settled down, the banks can kind of see the trajectory again. And financing is very, very, very cheap. So because of that, actually, I’d say there’s three main asset classes that are very, very much in demand. Not like receivership type deals, but like more normal market deals, that’s multifamily, industrial and it’d say grocery anchored retail. Those are the three asset classes that have continued to do well through Covid, if not have done better. Just to give you a brief example, for grocery retail, I talked to a few of like the biggest grocery stores in Canada. And they’re saying that their sales through Covid, you know, from March till now has been the highest ever on record, more than during Christmas season more than Thanksgiving. So their business is booming, long and short. Multifamily, people always need a place to live. And we’ve done a servia profile of all our investing base, Google multifamily. And I’d say 90%-95% to 99% of them reported that they have no issue collecting rent, and industrial logistics, it has always been in vogue. It always been popular even before Covid. And even now with more online shipping. You know, and what have you it just continues to be popular. 

Darren : I see. So, you know, like I know you for quite some time, right, and you’re quite involved with the Asian investors such as Hong Kong and China, how’s the demand for Canadian assets fared over during 2020? 

Robert: I mean, I’d say, Canada has always been a popular destination for you know, international capital. It’s always been seen as a safe haven investment destination, not the greatest growth, you know, Canada’s not Vietnam. But, you know, very stable, and the kind of the economy is largely backed by the American, it’s a shadow of the American economy as well. So people have always come here. 2020 I haven’t seen that much asian interest. I think for several reasons. Mainland Chinese interest, there is still some and you know, we’re doing a couple of deals with them. But it has not been the wave that we’ve seen in the past, I’d say five to ten years in Canada. And I’d say one of the major reasons behind that is one, cap controls in China. It’s just harder and harder to bring money out of China. Two, it’s a trade war, right? So you know, like, if you’re a Chinese citizen, I think the Chinese government now is doing all it can to make sure that capital stays in China. I mean, you live in Hong Kong, if you’re a Chinese citizen in Hong Kong, you pay more tax income taxes living in Hong Kong than you do if you’re working in mainland China. So I think the Chinese government’s implementation of the global tax scheme is definitely pulling people back and having people second guess or, think, again, about taking capital out. But that being said, actually, a kind of interesting trend that I’m seeing right now, our team is seeing right now is that we’re seeing Chinese capital being redeployed into Canada, but not from China, but from other places in the world, namely, the US. I think the trade war is definitely forcing some players to sell their assets in the US whether for political reasons, or just no safety of their investment, I think there’s a general fear that having a capital in the American markets, you know, it may not be safe, right, if something can happen to it. So we’re actually seeing quite a few groups that have previously invested in the US but never invest in Canada, now looking at Canada. For Hong Kong, investors, I think there’s a big buzz about you know, more Hong Kong, investors looking at Canada, I’d say I’d see it on the residential scale.I think a lot actually, I’d say there’s a good number of Hong Kong people, you know, who I think have traditional ties to Canada, who are, you know, kind of redeploying back into Canada? And I wouldn’t say it’s more from a capital perspective, more from like, a living perspective. You know, I think I’ve had some people reach out to me, asking me about jobs here. And with the job environment, especially how real estate is in in Vancouver in Toronto. So I think there’s definitely a migration of people, but not necessarily capital from Hong Kong. 

Darren : I see. So what’s your outlook for the remainder of 2010? 

Robert: I think a lot of big deals are going to happen. One thing I forgot to mention, actually, you asked me about Asian investors but I’d say one of the main foreign investors in Canada right now are the Americans and maybe the Europeans. And I think for the rest of 2020, I think pencils are backed up in September. Todays september the 17th. The pencils are definitely backed up in September. And I think we’re going to see a lot of activity, we’re going to see a lot of big activity happen in the next few months, I’d say in the next six months, things may close in 2020. Things may also close in the first quarter of 2021. But I’m working on some deals, I can’t disclose what but a lot of the big players are making some big moves right now. Either they’re buying or selling and repositioning. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that, you know, we’re still a peak market. And, you know, Covid has created like a low market, there’s no longer much of a market force kind of pushing things up or push things down. And I think a lot of players are using this opportunity to make strategic place that they’ve always planned to make. But they’re executing on this now. So for the rest of 2020, what do I see? I see a lot more American firms buying up here, namely buying multifamily and office. I think the Americans have two plays, or one play up here. And that’s they know that all the tech companies Facebook, Amazon, Google, want to open have opened and want to open more offices in Canada. For some reasons, Canadian dollars lower. It’s the same timezone as the US. It’s a short flight from the US and to get international talent now so like your top programmers from China, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, where have you immigration to Canada is much easier. US you have to get an h1 b visa, which is kind of up in the air right now with the current administration. But in Canada, if you have a job offer to say, Facebook, for example, or Microsoft, and you’re an Indonesian, for example, or Brazilian, it’ll take two weeks to process and get you working in Canada. So I think they see that as a very attractive alternative, you know, to secure that human capital. And I think the American real estate companies, you know, are buying office based on that, they know that these tech companies still want to expand. And I think they’re buying multifamily as well, because it kind of goes hand in hand, if you have population coming in, they need a place to live. And they’ll be pressures on rent growth, especially in Vancouver and Toronto, like they can see here it’s like, what less than one 1%. So there’s no new product, if one person moves in, there’s like no, no, for them to live, right. So there’s a lot of pressure for rent to go up. And I’d say a lot of like the big institutions as well, they Canadian institutions, which have a very, very big presence in real estate in Canada and in the world honestly, they’re one like the biggest investors globally in real estate. In China, Hong Kong, Europe, what have you, they’re going to be making strategic moves, buying and selling in Canada as well. 

Darren : I see that’s very informative. So you know a lot of the audience have actually asked me beforehand of the show, is that during just about macro influence, what are some macro influence you think investors should be aware of in the next few years, which will impact the attractiveness of investor investing in Canada? 

Robert: I think there are three things for sure. There’s three main macro discussion points that people should be aware of, if you’re a small investor, or a super large investor, the first is interest rates. Interest rates are going to remain low for the support seeable future. What does that mean exactly? It means that debt is going to continue to be cheap, and that there’s going to be further pressure for cap rates to go down. And for those who don’t know what a cap rate is, it’s basically the income of a property, like the first year’s income or property, their expected return. So if interest rates continue to stay low or go down, there will be pressure for good quality assets, you know, that have strong rents for the spread between the cap rate and the interest rate to go down. I think that’s one major trend that people should pay attention to. The second major trend is taxes. Through Covid, I think Canada is in a fantastic job creating liquidity. But they’ve also added a lot of new money to the supply. They’ve created a lot of new money. And I think all over the world, governments are increasing their deficits, so to speak, to help pay for this short term instability. But at end of the day, they need to get that money back somehow. And they aren’t getting it back through increasing interest rates for you know, like government bonds, they’re clearly not getting it back from there. I think one easy, very easy way for them to get it back is through increasing capital gain taxes, or any kind of transactional tax for investor, right. For all the people who’ve gotten more and more money in these past few months, you know, it’s the easiest way to get it back just to tax them on their investments. So I would look out for any kind of sign of capital gains tax increase in Canada, their budget is being put forth next year in the spring, q1 q2 of next year. So that’s definitely a thing to watch out for. And I think a lot of the moves people are making right now isn’t potentially an anticipation of that. I think if capital gains goes up, any kind of transaction tax goes up, they’ll be less trades, it will make the underlying value of the asset or the real estate worth less, in fact, will make it worth more because for anyone to sell, they’re going to have to sell for more to get a certain return if their taxes are up. So I think it’ll make things more expensive. For good quality stuff, obviously for stuff that’s not desirable or has issues, then that stuff will probably go down. But for stuff that’s super desirable multifamily, industrial, super stable, super safe, grocery, those, like will be harder and harder to trade. And the people who own that stuff will probably be in the best position.I’d say the third trend is immigration. Growth. Another way that I’d say the Canadian government can pay for a lot of this deficit. And the way that it historically has is just the immigration, and that’s through. Immigrants bring money, they bring capital. And they also, you know, increase the GDP of the country. So I think that’s generally a positive sentiment for Canada, you know, increasing immigration, because that will increase growth overall. So I think that’s another major trend to look out for. 

Darren : That’s very informative. I think that like everything you’ve said, so far is very in depth, so thanks for your time. So for time being right, what are some ways that if someone watches this video and wants to ask you more questions in commercial real estate or as a whole, how would I suggest them to reach out to you? 

Robert: Yeah, I’m sure my contacts will be above or below. I mean, why should someone reach out to me, I’m a real estate broker. I work at CBRE. We’re the largest, actually the largest commercial real estate company in the world, full service real estate company. We have a lot of different business lines, from investment to capital markets, leasing, property management, asset management, you know, the whole gamut appraisal.Me Myself, I work on the investment side as a broker. Yeah, if you’ve any questions regarding commercial real estate, or in fact, like commercial real estate in Canada, for that matter, feel free to reach out to me send me an email, give me a phone call. I think for people that don’t know real estate, and perhaps like they’re on Denzity, you know, looking for more insight in real estate and how to get into it, I would say this, like, it’s, it’s a great asset type, it’s a great investment to get into. And you can start very, very small. I’d say some of the biggest portfolios I’ve built from just one small building, you know, using, I guess, a celebrity as an example. I was, I mean, I went to school down in LA, everyone always used to talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold Schwarzenegger is an actor. He’s this guy who came from Vienna, from Austria. He started buying commercial real estate, apartment buildings, actually, you know, when he first started. You buy one, and then you refi it a few years later, then you buy another one. And you just keep rolling, right? 

Darren : Yeah. You know, I think he covered a lot about his real estate deals in his book, how to recall. So it’s interesting because he make his money before his acting career kicks off. So yeah, I think real estate, I love this sector and that’s why we’re here. And I want to give a shout out to our High School St. George’s too, you know, that’s how I know you and have become friends. So I’m sure in round two, we can get other people like our friend Danny, who you know, as a pension guy is an investment manager, he can talk more about investing as a whole in real estate or even fixed income assets. So I’ll say again, thanks for your time, and I really appreciate your time, making this happen together. 

Robert: We’ll do, thanks Darren. 

Darren : Okay see you next time. Thank you. Good day. 

Robert: Cheers. 

Darren: Bye.


Categories
Market Updates 未分類

Real estate expert: Online VS face-to-face?

Should I find a real estate expert online or should I do it the traditional way? That is a question.

Nowadays you can practically find anything online. Especially during the pandemic, online shopping has become the prominent trend. You can buy food, clothes, and services online, and even real estate expert services. Some people may think that real estate equity investment is too “serious” to be done online, however, there could be more pros than cons. Let’s look at the difference between online real estate expert and face-to-face consultation.

Face-to-face real estate expert

👍🏻Higher credibility

For traditional real estate agents, marketing relies heavily on offline strategies like direct sales. Agents and agencies can only build their reputations step by step with years of experience and excellent services. Customers usually decide to hire a particular real estate expert because their friends and families endorsed his or her service. This gives customers more confidence, knowing that they are in good hands.

👎🏻Less convenient

To do it the old-school way, you probably have to visit the real estate expert to start the consultation process. During the pandemic, it can be difficult to find a safe place to talk for hours. Also, for an investment as big as a real estate equity investment, you may want to compare the prices and fees of several agencies before you make a decision. You will then have to spend some time and effort to talk to a few real estate experts, and then compare their services manually. Just think about the workload.

Online real estate expert

👍🏻More sources of information

In the past, if you want to know more about a niche in real estate equity investment, you have to go to a local real estate agency and read their posters or brochures. If you are looking to invest in an oversea real estate market, let’s say, the Malaysia real estate market, then it could be a little troublesome because local real estate agencies may not have substantial information on this subject. Yet, now you can easily search online for information about other real estate markets. There are even prop-tech platforms like Denzity for you to look for real estate experts with specific expertise, like Vietnam real estate market, Malaysia real estate development, and feng shui.

👍🏻More extensive background search

With more choices comes more considerations when making decisions. To choose the best agent, comparison and background search are essential. You can utilize the Internet to do a more thorough background search on your agents.

👍🏻More channels to find agents

Instead of asking your friends who had purchased real estate before or checking out local real estate agencies one by one, you can now go online to do so. There are endless ways to find a real estate agent now. For instance, you can use Denzity’s directory to find the real estate expert that is just right for you. After figuring out what you want, you can apply the filter and browse real estate experts specialized in the area you’re interested in, like feng shui or Vietnam real estate market.

👎🏻Scammers

The Internet not only makes our lives easier but also scammer’s businesses. Let’s be honest here, there certainly are scammers in the real estate equity investment business. That’s why it is important to do research and seek consultation from credible organisations. For example, Denzity is a third-party platform for you to learn more about real estate equity investment and browse lists of unaffiliated real estate agents.

Do you prefer the online way or the traditional way? Let us know in the comment section.

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong


Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong

Connect with Michael:

Website: https://www.maiblocks.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amis-hong-kong/

Email: info@maiblocks.com

While real estate tokenization has been touted as a new movement, it hasn’t yet garnered significant momentum. As the coronavirus has accelerated the world economy’s digitization, has the pandemic pressure accelerated tokenization in real estate as well? In this episode, we have Michael sharing his thoughts on it.

Michael Wong is the co-founder of MaiBlocks Technology and MaiCapital, which is a fintech start-up in HK that aims to solve an age-old problem:  making illiquid investments more liquid.

  • Why is the security token offering a big topic in real estate?
  • How to participate in real estate tokenization
  • Things to be aware of while investing
  • Impact of COVID on real estate STO

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Source

Asia Security Token Alliance (ASTA): https://asiasta.com

MaiCapital: https://www.maicapital.io

MaiBlocks: https://www.maiblocks.com

Real Estate Security Token Offering: STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets.

Illiquid investment: Securities or assets that can neither be sold or exchanged easily for an equal value.

https://www.realtymogul.com/knowledge-center/article/what-are-illiquid-investments

Digitized fund: Digitized funds are capital funds that have been digitized with the use of blockchain technology.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of a blockchain technology is designed as such, so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

https://www.euromoney.com/learning/blockchain-explained/what-is-blockchain

REITs: REITs are companies or farms that manage or own properties that generate a stable income. With REIT investment, investors can enjoy a steady profit without going through any hassle of operating the asset.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reit.asp

STO exchange:  STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets. These tokenized assets can be traded on platforms known as STO exchanges.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

===

Michael Wong

Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Hey, Mike. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Darren Wong:[00:00:00][00:00:00]嘿,Mike。嘿,謝謝你加入我們。

[00:00:01]Michael Wong: [00:00:01] Hey Darren. Good to see you again.

[00:00:01]邁克爾·王:[00:00:01]嗨,Darren。很高興再次見到你。

[00:00:03]Darren Wong: [00:00:03] Yeah, It’s been half like a year last time I see you.

[00:00:03]Darren Wong:[00:00:03]是的,我上次見到你已經是半年前。

[00:00:07]Michael Wong: [00:00:07] Yeah, it’s been a while. All these [00:00:10] interesting things happening in the world.

[00:00:07]邁克爾·王:[00:00:07]是的,已經有一段時間了。很多有趣的事情都正在進行中。

[00:00:11]Darren Wong: [00:00:11] Yeah, which is something that I’ll talk to you about, because we’re both in ASTA. And then we haven’t talked about what’s going to

[00:00:11]Darren Wong:[00:00:11]是的,因為我們都在ASTA,所以我會和你談談關於ASTA的事情。我們還沒談過市場會

[00:00:20] market or even what’s going on with regulation and even the real estate security token offering space. So this interview is something that I really want to talk to you about, even personally,

[00:00:20]發生什麼,甚至是關於監管,甚至是房地產安全代幣發行空間的變化。所以我是很期待這次的訪問的,即使是我個人也想

[00:00:30] to learn more what’s going on. So for the audience that don’t know who you are and what you do, would you mind give them a very short intro?

[00:00:30]瞭解更多情况。所以對於那些不知道你是誰和你做什麼的觀眾,你能給他們一個簡短的介紹嗎?

[00:00:38]Michael Wong: [00:00:38] Oh, sure, definitely. So Hi,

[00:00:38]邁克爾·王:[00:00:38]哦,當然,當然。嗨,

[00:00:40] everyone. My name is Michael and I’m a co-founder of MaiBlocks and MaiCapital. And what we’re doing here is we’re a FinTech

[00:00:40]各位。我叫Michael,是maiblocks和maicapital的聯合創始人。我們是一家在香港的金融科技

[00:00:50] startup here in Hong Kong that aims to solve an age-old problem, which is turning illiquid investments into something more liquid.

[00:00:50]初創公司旨在解决一個長久的問題,即將非流動性投資轉化為更具流動性的投資。

[00:01:00] And we’re trying to use the power of blockchain to help with that. So when people think about, for example, investing into real estate, traditionally, people would immediately associate that with

[00:01:00]我們正試圖利用區塊鏈的力量來幫助實現這一點。因此,當人們想到投資房地產,傳統上,人們會立刻聯想到

[00:01:10] something that’s very illiquid. So what we’re hoping is to use the power of blockchain to basically make this whole investment

[00:01:10]流動性很差的東西。所以我們希望利用區塊鏈的力量,基本上把整個投資

[00:01:20] much more liquid. We’re calling this as digitised funds. But you can check out more on our website as well

[00:01:20]變得更流動。我們稱之為數位基金。但你也可以在我們的網站上查看更多

[00:01:30] at maiblocks.com.

[00:01:30] 網址是maiblocks.com.

[00:01:31]Darren Wong: [00:01:31] So for people who don’t know about blockchain or crypto, what are the differences between the security token offering and initial coin

[00:01:31]Darren Wong:[00:01:31]那麼對於不瞭解區塊鏈或加密技術的人來說,簡單的來說,安全代幣發行和初始幣所提供的

[00:01:40] offering in simple terms?

[00:01:40]服務有什差別?

[00:01:42]Michael Wong: [00:01:42] Yeah, so there are a few key differences I would summarise them into a

[00:01:42]Michael Wong:[00:01:42]是的,所以我將它們總結為

[00:01:50] few key words. One is asset backed, the other one is regulation. And the third is risk. So both ICOs and STOs,

[00:01:50]幾個關鍵的差別。一個是資產擔保,另一個是監管。第三是風險。所以ICOs和STOs,

[00:02:00] STO meaning security tokens, use blockchain technology to enable a crowdfunding mechanism for people to raise capital.

[00:02:00]STO意為證券型代幣,使用區塊鏈科技為人們提供眾籌機制來籌集資金。

[00:02:10] And the key difference here is STOs are backed by actual tangible assets. These could be real assets like real estate, or it

[00:02:10]而關鍵的區別在於,證券型代幣是由實際有形資產支持的。這些資產可能是房地產之類的不動產,或者它

[00:02:20] could be income streams or profit streams, where ICOs are more promises of future services or

[00:02:20]也可以是收入流或利潤流,首次代幣發行(ICOs)是更多關於未來服務的承諾或者

[00:02:30] future products that you could use or buy. And so that’s one key difference is STO is backed by something that’s much more tangible.

[00:02:30]你可以使用或購買的未來產品。所以這就是一個關鍵的區別,證券型代幣是由更具體的東西支持的。

[00:02:40] The other thing is regulation. So there’s really, in many jurisdictions, STO is heavily regulated. There’s specific

[00:02:40]另一件事是監管。因此,在許多司法管轄區,證券型代幣受到嚴格監管。有具體的

[00:02:50] rules on what you can and cannot do, whereas ICOs in many cases are not. So the third key difference, which is risk,

[00:02:50]關於你能做什麼和不能做什麼的規則,而首次代幣發行在很多情况下則沒有受同等監管。所以第三個的關鍵區別就是風險,

[00:03:00] because the ICO is, in many cases, not properly regulated, it could be rampant with fraud and scams. And there’s a much

[00:03:00]由於首次代幣發行在許多情况下沒有得到適當的監管,所以舞弊和詐騙的情況有機會會猖獗。還有

[00:03:10] higher risk of speculation, where STOs is much more grounded.

[00:03:10]投機的風險更加高,在這種情況下,證券型代幣的基礎更為穩固。

[00:03:13]Darren Wong: [00:03:13] So obviously like blockchain has been a big topic for not only real estates, so is a really big industry and something that a lot

[00:03:13]Darren Wong:[00:03:13]顯然,區塊鏈不僅是房地產的一大主題,而且是一個非常大的行業,而且很多

[00:03:20] people, like yourself, obviously is thinking about, it’s gonna change how we look at trading and how we securitize something. So why is it huge

[00:03:20]像你這樣的人顯然在想,這將改變我們對交易的看法,以及我們如何將某些東西證券化。那麼,對於證券型代幣而言,

[00:03:30] for real estate when it comes to STO and then how’s the difference comparing to a REITs?

[00:03:30] 為什麼房地產是很重要的?和房地產投資信託相比又有什麼區別?

[00:03:37]Michael Wong: [00:03:37] Yeah, so real estate, as I started

[00:03:37]邁克爾·王:[00:03:37]是的,房地產,像我剛開始的時候提過

[00:03:40] earlier, people associated with investing in real estate is difficult to get in and also difficult to get out, meaning it’s very illiquid.

[00:03:40]與房地產投資相關的人很難入場,也很難離場,這意味著房地產的流動性非常低。

[00:03:50] Traditionally, in the real estate world, there aren’t that many ways to invest into real estate, especially on commercial properties.

[00:03:50]傳統上,在房地產領域,投資房地產的管道並不多,尤其是商用物業。

[00:04:00] Traditionally, either you go through private equity, which is still very illiquid in its form or through REITs, which is

[00:04:00]傳統上,你要麼通過私募股權,但它的形式仍然非常缺乏流動性,要麼通過房地產投資信託,後者就是

[00:04:10] essentially an IPO. So a listed process, which is much more liquid, so it allows a lot of people to get in, get out much easier, but it’s very expensive to

[00:04:10]本質上是首次公開募股。所以是一個上市的流程,流動性就大得多,所以讓很多人進出更容易,但結構的成本很高

[00:04:20] structure. So, what ends up happening is REITs tends to have many many assets under its portfolio. And

[00:04:20]因此,最終發生的是,房地產投資信託的投資組合中往往有許多資產。以及

[00:04:30] so the whole investment profile, the whole return profile, is washed out, is averaged out across many different

[00:04:30]整個投資組合,整個回報組合,都被抹去了,在許多不同的領域被平均化了

[00:04:40] assets. So for you seldom you would see single asset REITs, for example. STO in this case, because it is cheaper to structure

[00:04:40]資產。例如,你很少會看到單一資產的房地產投資信託。在這種情況下,因為證券型代幣的結構更便宜

[00:04:50] and is cheaper to issue, then it allows asset owners to structure single asset STOs, which would

[00:04:50]而且發行成本較低,因此它允許資產所有者構建單一資產的證券型代幣,這將

[00:05:00] offer similarly more liquid capabilities so people can get in and get out easier. So that’s one of the key differences between

[00:05:00]提供類似的更具流動性的功能,以便人們更容易投資。所以這是

[00:05:10] STO and REITs. There are other differences. For example, REITs are usually traded in public markets, which is only opened during business hours. Tokens

[00:05:10] 證券型代幣和房地產投資信託。還有其他不同之處。例如,房地產投資信託通常在公開市場交易,而公開市場只在營業時間開放。代幣

[00:05:20] can be traded 24/7, and there are also these various differences as well.

[00:05:20]可以全天候交易,而且也有這些不同之處。

[00:05:25]Darren Wong: [00:05:25] So obviously, it sounds really cool, right? I mean, just something that as a real estate investor, like,

[00:05:25]Darren Wong:[00:05:25]顯然,這聽起來很酷,對吧?我是說,作為一個房地產投資者,

[00:05:30] wow, that’s crazy. You can do that. But then, people have talked about this for a very long time, but how has it not be a mainstream? And then, in that regard,

[00:05:30]哇,太瘋狂了。你居然可以這樣做。但是,人們已經談論了很長一段時間了,但是它怎麼不是主流呢?然後,在這方面,

[00:05:40] obviously it’s not mainstream yet, what kind of challenges there are for the real estate asset being tokenized?

[00:05:40]顯然這還不是主流,房地產資產代幣化有什麼樣的挑戰?

[00:05:44]Michael Wong: [00:05:44] So on the first point, it has been talked about

[00:05:44]邁克爾·王:[00:05:44]所以關於第一點,我們已經討論過了

[00:05:50] this concept for over a year. And however it is still relatively new. It’s a new concept, especially to investors. And I think

[00:05:50]這個概念有一年多了。然而,它仍然是相對較新的。這是一個新概念,尤其是對投資者而言。我認為

[00:06:00] there are a few reasons. You know, one reason obviously is they are still a lot of hurdles to get through before you can actually issue an STO, including technology,

[00:06:00]有幾個原因。你知道,一個很明顯的原因是在你發佈證券型代幣之前還有很多障礙要克服,包括科技,

[00:06:10] regulation, even financial considerations. But we think there’s also one key element that’s been missing in this

[00:06:10]監管,甚至是財務方面的考慮。但我們認為還有一個關鍵因素在這生態系統上被遺漏

[00:06:20] ecosystem is exchange. A big benefit of STO is liquidity, so ability for people to exit the secondary

[00:06:20]就是交換。證券型代幣的一大好處是流動性,因此人們能够退出二級市場

[00:06:30] markets, like exchanges. However, exchanges that can support security tokens need to be properly regulated and licenced. And so, this depends on the

[00:06:30],就像交易所。然而,支持安全代幣的交易所需要得到適當的監管和許可。所以,這取決於

[00:06:40] regulator giving out licences to these operators. And right now, the regulator’s from all over the world it’s still been slow in distributing

[00:06:40]監管機構向這些運營商發放許可證。而現在,監管機構來自世界各地,在分配這些許可證上仍然很慢

[00:06:50] these licences, so the virus definitely put a

[00:06:50]而疫情肯定

[00:07:00] pause on all these activities as well. But we think over the next 6 to 12 months, we do expect more and more of these exchanges to pop out with

[00:07:00]暫停了所有這些活動。但我們認為,在未來6到12個月內,我們確實預計會有越來越多的適當的許可證和適當的監管的

[00:07:10] proper licences and proper regulation behind them. And so once these markets appear, then hopefully these liquidity will then show up.

[00:07:10] 交易出現。因此,一旦這些市場出現,那麼希望這些流動性會出現。

[00:07:20] And so that’s one of the reasons why it hasn’t really picked up in the mainstream. And regarding your second question on why

[00:07:20]這也是為什麼它沒有真正在主流中流行的原因之一。關於你的第二個問題為什麼

[00:07:30] hasn’t real estate asset owners swarm to doing tokenizing these assets? I think, in a lot of cases,

[00:07:30]房地產資產所有者不是蜂擁而至,將這些資產代幣化嗎?我想,在很多情况下,

[00:07:40] people are in a wait-and-see mode, whereas they don’t really want to be the first guy hooked and, so a lot of

[00:07:40]人們處於觀望狀態,但他們並不想成為第一個上鉤的人,所以

[00:07:50] people are just waiting for more success stories before they jump into this. So this becomes a little bit of a chicken and egg where you want to have good

[00:07:50]人們只是在等待更多的成功故事,然後才跳進來。所以這就變成了一個雞和蛋的情況

[00:08:00] assets out there but then you want to have good liquidity and which comes first.

[00:08:00]你想有好的資產在那裡,但是你也想要有良好的流動性,這就要看哪樣先發生。

[00:08:05]Darren Wong: [00:08:05] So in your opinion, what type of real estate asset type what

[00:08:05]Darren Wong:[00:08:05]那麼在你看來,什麼樣的房地產資產類型是什麼

[00:08:10] investment strategy that are best suited for tokenize? And then, what aren’t the best for tokenized?

[00:08:10]最適合代幣化的投資策略?然後,什麼不能作代幣化?

[00:08:16]Michael Wong: [00:08:16] Yeah, so, again, because this is still a very new

[00:08:16]邁克爾·王:[00:08:16]是的,再一次,因為這還是

[00:08:20] concept, so we want to remove as much of the uncertainties as possible. And so, by putting assets that

[00:08:20]一個相對新的概念,所以我們希望盡可能地消除不確定性。因此,通過將

[00:08:30] are less risky, that are already generating regular dividends or regular yields, those types of

[00:08:30]風險較小的,已經產生定期股息或定期收益的資產,這些類型的資產

[00:08:40] assets, I think, would make more sense for STOs today. And also commercial properties

[00:08:40]我認為,會對如今的證券型代幣來說更有意義。還有商用物業

[00:08:50] is going to be more interesting for STO space because there are already many different ways for people to invest into residential properties. Now, whereas commercial properties are

[00:08:50]對於證券型代幣空間來說會更有趣,因為人們已經有很多不同的管道投資自住物業。現在,商用物業

[00:09:00] still quite limited in the accessibility of it. So we think a mixture of these type of assets would be a better fit for now.

[00:09:00]它的可用性仍然非常有限。因此,我們認為,混合使用這些類型的資產將更適合現時的情况。

[00:09:09]Darren Wong: [00:09:09] I

[00:09:09]Darren Wong:[00:09:09]我

[00:09:10] see. So, I know because we talk a lot before about what kind of asset and everything, right? Is there something in your mind that you think it

[00:09:10]明白了。所以,我知道,因為我們之前談了很多關於什麼樣的資產和所有的事情,對吧?你認為

[00:09:20] should be, because less risky is a very broad term, is there a certain like size or even, for example, income generating and

[00:09:20]因為低風險是一個非常寬泛的術語,是否存在某種類似的規模,或者甚至,例如,產生收入和

[00:09:30] less risk? What does that mean to you? Does anyone know in your point of view, that’s it.

[00:09:30]較低的風險?這對你意味著什麼?有沒有人在你看來,就是這樣。

[00:09:33]Michael Wong: [00:09:33] I think there’s an element of, you know, how much of the market exists today. So if you throw

[00:09:33]邁克爾·王:[00:09:33]我認為有一個因素,你知道,是今天市場價值有多少。所以如果你扔

[00:09:40] something out that’s huge, let’s say a billion dollar worth of assets, probably the market is not there yet to pick up the whole

[00:09:40]一些巨額的資產,比如說價值10億的資產,可能市場還沒有能力可以

[00:09:50] piece of the asset. So in terms of size, I think we’re still in the 10 to 100 million dollar size,

[00:09:50]接收全部的資產。所以就規模而言,我認為我們仍處於1000萬到1億美元的規模,

[00:10:00] kind of the US dollar market. And in terms of risks, what we’re meaning is that there are different types of investment

[00:10:00]類似這樣的美元市場。就風險而言,我們的意思是有不同類型的投資

[00:10:10] properties. It could be a property where you’re just buying a piece of land where the whole property hasn’t been built yet, but it needs to be built up from ground up. So

[00:10:10]項目。它可能是一個你只是買了一塊土地的房產,整個房產還沒有建成,但它需要從頭開始建設。所以

[00:10:20] those, in many cases, are what we categorise as much more risky, versus where you already have an existing building that’s in an

[00:10:20]在很多情况下,這些是我們歸類為風險更大的地方,相比之下,你已經有了一棟物業是

[00:10:30] office building and you’re already collecting rent from existing tenants. We have an ongoing track record from the returns of the

[00:10:30]一棟辦公樓,你已經在向現有租戶收取租金。我們從物業的收益中獲得持續的記錄,

[00:10:40] property that we’ll, in our state, will categorise it as a more certain investment.

[00:10:40]在我們的情況下,我們將把它歸類為更肯定的投資。

[00:10:48]Darren Wong: [00:10:48] I see. I

[00:10:48]Darren Wong:[00:10:48]我明白了。我

[00:10:50] think that I feel like if we do this, like every single year, I think it will be like, you look back to how things are becoming and evolving, that would be kind of cool in the future from

[00:10:50]我覺得如果我們這樣做,每一年,我想它會像,你會回顧一下事情的發展和演變,那在未來會從

[00:11:00] speculating to it happens more cases in cases, because I obviously hope the industry goes well, too. So something that is in my mind be like, “that’s kind of cool if that happens”. And

[00:11:00]在推測到個案在逐漸發生,因為我顯然希望這個行業也能順利發展。所以在我的腦海裏會有這樣的想法,“如果真的發生了,那就太酷了”。以及

[00:11:10] so as if to follow up, so what other components or parties need to be involved or participate to make the real estate tokenization happen or matured?

[00:11:10]因此,如果要進一步的話,那麼,要使房地產代幣化發生或成熟,還需要哪些其他組件的加入或者哪方的參與?

[00:11:19][00:11:20] Michael Wong: [00:11:19] They are obviously different players. There’s technology players, there are financial players and obviously the real estate players. But I think a big key component is

[00:11:19][00:11:20]邁克爾·王:[00:11:19]他們顯然是不同的持分者。有科技的持分者,有金融的持分者,當然還有房地產的持分者。但我認為一個重要的組成部分是

[00:11:30] regulators, or the government. So basically having the government behind it, and putting

[00:11:30]監管者或者是政府。所以基本上是有政府支持,然後

[00:11:40] down the right rules and regulation to protect investors, I think that would give a lot of confidence to attract

[00:11:40]製定正確的規則和法規來保護投資者,我認為這會給投資者帶來很大的信心來吸引

[00:11:50] more, both retail and institutional investors to come into the space. So I think that is a big piece of this as well.

[00:11:50]更多,包括散戶和機構投資者來投資。所以我認為這也是其中的一個重要部分。

[00:11:57]Darren Wong: [00:11:57] I see. So for

[00:11:57]Darren Wong:[00:11:57]我明白了。所以

[00:12:00] existing real estate STO out there, what are things that the audience need to be aware of?

[00:12:00]現有的房地產市場的STO,觀眾需要注意什麼?

[00:12:07]Michael Wong: [00:12:07] Ultimately

[00:12:07]邁克爾·王:[00:12:07]最終

[00:12:10] what the investors will be investing is the underlying asset. The token really facilitates the investment but it’s not really the point of the

[00:12:10]投資者將投資的是相關資產。代幣確實有助於投資,但並不是

[00:12:20] investment, when you’re investing is the underlying property or real estate or whatever asset it is. So I think the key is the valuation of what you’re investing

[00:12:20]投資的重點,當你投資的是相關資產或房地產或任何資產。所以我認為關鍵是你投資的價值

[00:12:30] should focus mainly on that asset itself, rather than the token. So this removes a lot of the

[00:12:30]應該主要關注資產本身,而不是代幣。所以這就消除了很多

[00:12:40] speculative aspect of this. And I think that’s most important. I mean, the other parts also is you need to

[00:12:40]這是推測的性質。我認為這是最重要的。我是說,其他部分也是你需要去

[00:12:50] worry about the issuance and the service providers that are providing these tokens to you making sure that they’re

[00:12:50]擔心發行和向你提供這些代幣的服務提供者確保他們是

[00:13:00] legitimate. They are proper. That’s to protect you on investments.

[00:13:00]合法的。它們是正規的。這是為了保護你的投資。

[00:13:05]Darren Wong: [00:13:05] That’s good. Well, because like we’re both in Hong Kong and something that even I want to

[00:13:05]Darren Wong:[00:13:05]很好。嗯,因為我們都在香港,所以我想

[00:13:10] ask you, where are we with the real estate STO in Hong Kong, and then how’s activities with different countries at the moment?

[00:13:10]問你的是,香港房地產的STO發展到什麼階段了,以及現時與不同國家的活動如何?

[00:13:19]Michael Wong: [00:13:19] Hong Kong,

[00:13:19]邁克爾·王:[00:13:19]香港,

[00:13:20] frankly, has been relatively slow, compared to the rest of the world. I think the regulator has been pretty public

[00:13:20]坦率地說,與世界其他地區相比,進展相對緩慢。我認為監管機構關於支持數位資產和相關業務,包括STO

[00:13:30] about supporting digital assets and related business, including STO. However, we have not seen any

[00:13:30]已經相當公開了。但是,我們還沒有看到任何

[00:13:40] actual licences, for example, that’s given out to exchanges. But we do expect probably maybe that was

[00:13:40]實際發放給交易所的許可證。但我們認為可能是

[00:13:50] delayed by the virus pandemic. Hopefully we’ll see some progress closer to the end of this year.

[00:13:50]被疫情耽擱了。希望我們能在接近今年年底的時候看到一些進展。

[00:14:00] Compared to the US and Singapore, they actually have already issued licences to exchanges and major players in the space. So

[00:14:00]與美國和新加坡相比,她們實際上已經向該領域的交易所和主要參與者頒發了許可證。所以

[00:14:10] at least for now, seemingly, they’re moving a little bit faster than Hong Kong. But hopefully Hong Kong can catch up soon.

[00:14:10]至少目前看來,他們的速度比香港快一點。但希望香港能儘快趕上。

[00:14:17]Darren Wong: [00:14:17] So like you know,

[00:14:17]Darren Wong:[00:14:17]所以,你知道我曾

[00:14:20] at ASTA for a while, learning about the sharing insight about STO world and stuff like that. And there’s a lot of noise online too, and

[00:14:20] 參加過亞洲證券型代幣聯盟一段日子,學習關於STO世界的見解和諸如此類的東西。網上也有很多聲音,而且

[00:14:30] everyone have different opinions and stuff like that. What is something in this industry that you think is misunderstood or overrated?

[00:14:30]每個人都有不同的觀點和諸如此類的事情。在這個行業中,你認為什麼東西被誤解或高估了?

[00:14:35]Michael Wong: [00:14:35] I think there’s a lot of

[00:14:35]邁克爾·王:[00:14:35]我認為有很多對STO的

[00:14:40] misconception STO the T stands for token. But when people think about token, then a lot of people immediately associate that with ICOs

[00:14:40]誤解;T代表代幣。但當人們想到代幣時,很多人立刻將其與首次代幣發行聯系起來

[00:14:50] or a lot back in 2017 2018, where there were a lot of frauds and scams associated with ICOs and

[00:14:50]或更早的2017年和2018年,當時有很多與首次代幣發行和

[00:15:00] tokens, and so people will immediately become very risk averse on accepting does that idea, even though you know token is essentially

[00:15:00]代幣的詐騙和舞弊,所以人們一旦接受這種想法,就會立刻變得非常厭惡風險,即使你知道代幣本質上是這樣

[00:15:10] a term that we computer geeks come up with, to represent something that’s virtual. It’s

[00:15:10]一個我們電腦怪客想出的術語,用來表示虛擬的東西。它是

[00:15:20] really a tool, and a tool can be properly managed and the risk can be contained if

[00:15:20]真正的工具,如果周圍有足夠的保護措施,

[00:15:30] there are enough protections around it. And so, STO is nothing like these type of scam tokens out there. So I think that’s one of the biggest

[00:15:30] 則可以對工具進行適當的管理並控制風險。所以,STO和外面的這些騙局一點都不像。所以我認為這是最大的

[00:15:40] misconception of them.

[00:15:40]對它們的誤解。

[00:15:41]Darren Wong: [00:15:41] I see. So for the audience, right, who might be people who are technologists, real estate owners,

[00:15:41]Darren Wong:[00:15:41]我明白了。所以對於觀眾來說,對吧,他們可能是科技專家,房地產商,

[00:15:50] or people who just want to participate in this whole movement, what would you suggest that they can participate?

[00:15:50]或者只是想參與整個運動的人,你認為他們可以參加什麼?

[00:15:58]Michael Wong: [00:15:58] So,

[00:15:58]邁克爾·王:[00:15:58]所以,

[00:16:00] I think the best thing is to invest, to actually try it out. I think you won’t know how it works until you actually try it. I

[00:16:00]我認為最好的辦法是投資,真正嘗試一下。我想除非你真的試過,否則你不會知道它是怎麼運作的。我

[00:16:10] don’t mean going all out and put all your savings into it, but there are now more and more ways for people to

[00:16:10]並不是說全力以赴地把你所有的積蓄都投入其中,但是現在有越來越多的管道讓人們

[00:16:20] get on exchanges or websites where you can actually legally buy and invest in these STOs. So I would

[00:16:20]進入交易所或網站,在那裡你可以合法購買和投資這些STOs。所以我會

[00:16:30] encourage people to just try it out, put down a little bit of money just to see it and see how it works.

[00:16:30]鼓勵人們試一試,拿出一點錢來看看它是如何運作的。

[00:16:34]Darren Wong: [00:16:34] So just now, I think a couple questions ago, we talked about how COVID-19 might have

[00:16:34]Darren Wong:[00:16:34]剛才,我想幾個問題之前,我們討論了新冠肺炎可能令

[00:16:40] delayed a little bit of the process, right? But then even with COVID-19 and the recession, how do you think that they impact the real estate STO movement so far?

[00:16:40]整個過程有點延遲,對吧?但是,即使有了新冠肺炎和經濟衰退,到目前為止,你認為它們對房地產的證券型代幣有何影響?

[00:16:49]Michael Wong: [00:16:49] It’s

[00:16:49]邁克爾·王:[00:16:49]這

[00:16:50] interesting, because the pandemic, while it’s devastating to many people, forced a lot of people to think about how to do things differently.

[00:16:50]很有趣,因為疫情雖然對很多人來說是毀滅性的,但卻迫使很多人思考如何以不同的管道做事。

[00:17:00] And one of the key impact is just a lot less face-to-face time. Now even you and I have to

[00:17:00]其中一個關鍵的影響就是大大减少了面對面的時間。現在就連你和我都不得不

[00:17:10] talk over Zoom now instead of meeting face to face.        

[00:17:10]在Zoom上談話,而不是面對面見面。

[00:17:14]Darren Wong: [00:17:14] We’re twenty minutes away, you know. I could take a cab and find you. Yeah, sorry, keep going.

[00:17:14]Darren Wong:[00:17:14]我離你只有20分鐘的車程,你知道的。所以,我可以搭計程車來找你。是的,對不起,請繼續。

[00:17:20] Sorry about that.

[00:17:20]很抱歉。

[00:17:20]Michael Wong: [00:17:20] No worries. So a lot of traditional means of raising capital, such as private equities, a lot of deals close

[00:17:20]邁克爾·王:[00:17:20]別擔心。所以很多傳統的融資方式,比如私募股權,很多交易

[00:17:30] after face-to-face meetings, but then now these meetings don’t occur, and which means it’s much harder to close these deals. And so STOs offer an alternative way for

[00:17:30]在面對面會議之後成交,但現在這些會議沒有舉行,這意味著要完成這些交易要困難得多。所以STOs提供了一種替代方法讓

[00:17:40] people to, to close deals and raise capital. Furthermore, I think the pandemic is causing a lot of valuation

[00:17:40]人們去完成交易和籌集資金。此外,

[00:17:50] issues for real estate home and asset owners as well. And so, some of these guys are now looking into more alternative ways to raise capital,

[00:17:50] 我認為疫情病也給房地產房屋和資產所有者帶來了很多估值問題。所以,這些人中的一些人現在正在尋找更多的融資方式,

[00:18:00] beyond just the traditional means. And so I think STO is something that is now getting on their radar.

[00:18:00]超越傳統手段。所以我認為STO現在正被他們所關注。

[00:18:07]Darren Wong: [00:18:07] Yeah, because like, I think there’s a company that I

[00:18:07]Darren Wong:[00:18:07]是的,因為我知道有一家公司

[00:18:10] think we both know are doing like virtual roadshow, and then I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of cool”, and then I was looking at some tech recently were

[00:18:10]我們都知道他們在做虛擬路演,然後我想,“哦,這有點酷”,然後我最近在看一些科技

[00:18:20] like virtual showing, drones surveillance and stuff like that. I even, personally, I feel like this can work, everything combined together, it’s not only STOs about the investing

[00:18:20]比如是虛擬展示,無人機監控等等。我甚至,就我個人而言,我覺得這是可行的,所有的東西結合在一起,這不僅僅是關於STOs和投資

[00:18:30] world, about the real estate investing, how we come together to build in and more people can participate in all shape and size. And then so like the audience might not

[00:18:30]世界,關於房地產投資,我們如何團結在一起進行建設,讓更多的人參與各種形式和規模的投資。然後觀眾可能不會

[00:18:40] know that you’re from San Francisco, and I’m sure you have technologists thinking, what should we expect to see when it comes to the STO world in a few years time?

[00:18:40]知道你來自舊金山,我相信你有科技專家們在想,幾年後的STO世界出現,我們應該期待看到什麼?

[00:18:50] My point of view.

[00:18:50]我的觀點。

[00:18:51]Michael Wong: [00:18:51] I think we would expect a much more vibrant ecosystem with a lot of different players, with exchanges, with issuers,

[00:18:51]Michael Wong:[00:18:51]我認為我們會期待一個更加充滿活力的生態系統,也會有很多不同的參與者,有交易所,有發行人,

[00:19:00] with asset owners and investors right all together and seeing this whole story play out on a global basis as

[00:19:00]資產所有者和投資者齊心協力,在全球的層面上合作。

[00:19:10] well. So we’re not talking about Hong Kong people investing into Hong Kong assets, we’re talking about Hong Kong people investing into tokenize assets from the States, and people

[00:19:10]所以我們說的不是香港人投資香港的資產,而是香港人投資美國的代幣性資產;

[00:19:20] in Africa investing into assets potentially in Hong Kong. So I think that’s what we expect. It does take more time to build it out.

[00:19:20]非洲人投資於可能在香港的資產。所以我想這就是我們所期望的。它確實需要更多的時間來構建。

[00:19:30] But I think in three, four years time, this will be much more interesting.

[00:19:30]但我認為在三到四年後,這會更有趣。

[00:19:34]Darren Wong: [00:19:34] I see. If you have a message to everyone in the STO or real estate

[00:19:34]Darren Wong:[00:19:34]我明白了。如果你有話要告訴STO或房地產界別的每個人

[00:19:40] sector, and what would that be?

[00:19:40]那會是什麼?

[00:19:42]Michael Wong: [00:19:42] I think what’s happening in the world today is really a strong

[00:19:42]邁克爾·王(Michael Wong):[00:19:42]我認為當今世界正在發生的事情真的是一個

[00:19:50] indication that a lot of things needs to change and how they’re done. And there’s a lot of talks about

[00:19:50]明顯的指標來說明很多事情需要改變,以及如何改變。有很多關於

[00:20:00] whether globalisation was to exist with this pandemic still running rampant and people can’t travel and they can’t see each other. But I think

[00:20:00]全球化是否還會存在,因為疫情仍在肆虐,人們不能旅行,也看不見彼此。但我認為

[00:20:10] globalisation will still continue, but is in much less a physical form.

[00:20:10]全球化仍將會繼續,但其形式遠不是實體形式。

[00:20:13]Darren Wong: [00:20:13] I see.

[00:20:13]Darren Wong:[00:20:13]我明白了。

[00:20:14]Michael Wong: [00:20:14] Instead, I think a lot more things will happen online, right? We didn’t have these zoom calls much, at

[00:20:14]邁克爾·王:[00:20:14]相反,我認為發生更多的事情會在網上發生,對吧?在疫情之前,這些zoom的會議的發生頻率

[00:20:20] least much less frequent, before COVID-19. And so a lot of things will happen online, transactions will happen online, and STO is poised

[00:20:20]沒有像現在那樣頻繁。所以很多事情都會在網上發生,交易也會在網上發生,而STO已經做好了

[00:20:30] to replace a lot of these real-estate-type investments and transactions and activities.

[00:20:30]取代許多此類房地產投資和交易活動的準備。

[00:20:35]Darren Wong: [00:20:35] Actually, that sounds like a very good takeaway for the audience just to know what’s going on. And

[00:20:35]Darren Wong:[00:20:35]實際上,對於觀眾來說,這聽起來很不錯,因為他們知道發生了什麼。以及

[00:20:40] do you have other takeaways that you want the audience to take away from this whole video?

[00:20:40]在整個短片中,你希望觀眾從整個短片中還能獲得什麼其他收穫嗎?

[00:20:45]Michael Wong: [00:20:45] Yeah, I think it’s STO again, it’s a brand new concept. I

[00:20:45]邁克爾·王:[00:20:45]是的,我認為又是證券型代幣,這是一個新概念。我

[00:20:50] think it’s a very interesting concept, whether you’re an investor or an asset holder, it’s something that could be interesting and valuable to you. And so if you’re

[00:20:50]認為這是一個非常有趣的概念,無論你是投資者還是資產持有人,它都可能是你感興趣和有價值的。所以如果你

[00:21:00] looking into this a little bit more and you want to learn more about it, please check out our website, maiblocks.com,

[00:21:00]想瞭解更多資訊,請訪問我們的網站,maiblocks.com,

[00:21:10] m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com and you can even sign up on our platform and check out on deals that we start to have on our platform. And

[00:21:10]m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com,你甚至可以在我們的平臺上注册並查看我們平臺上有的交易。以及

[00:21:20] if you’d like to talk to us personally, maiblocks, we can offer an end-to-end service in the space of Sto. And we would love

[00:21:20]如果你願意親自與我們交談,maiblocks,我們可以在證券型代幣的領域提供點到點的服務。我們希望

[00:21:30] to talk to you about it.                   

[00:21:30]能和你談談。

[00:21:31]Darren Wong: [00:21:31] That’s great. I think, Well, obviously, I will include everything in the show notes. And then I think we should meet up soon because it’s been a while.

[00:21:31]王達倫:太好了。我想,嗯,很明顯,我會把所有的東西都放在資訊欄裡。我想我們應該儘快見面,因為已經有一段時間了。

[00:21:40] Thanks so much for your time. Because we know what Denzity insight, we cover a lot of different things. And STO has been this biggest biggest thing that

[00:21:40]非常感謝你抽出時間。因為我們知道Denzity涵蓋了很多不同的東西。而證券型代幣是其中最大的事情之一

[00:21:50] I even take a long time to learn and digest everything, so I hope that we have this more often some kind of long form discussions. And then even maybe we can

[00:21:50]我甚至要花很長的時間來學習和消化所有的東西,所以我希望我們能經常進行這類型比較長的討論。然後也許我們可以

[00:22:00] have this like whole every quarter of learning about STO what’s going on. So it’s something that I want to thank you for having the time to talk to us and then I hope the audience, too, will learn more about

[00:22:00]每季度都瞭解證券型代幣發生了什麼。所以我要感謝你們有時間和我們交談,然後我希望觀眾也能瞭解更多

[00:22:10] how the whole world will be coming a couple years time.

[00:22:10]未來幾年整個世界將會怎樣。

[00:22:13]Michael Wong: [00:22:13] Yeah, definitely. Thank you for taking the time to learning about our world. And I think this is a great channel for

[00:22:13]邁克爾·王:[00:22:13]是的,當然。感謝你抽出時間來瞭解我們的世界。我認為這是一個很好的渠道

[00:22:20] people like us to communicate new ideas to the world.

[00:22:20]讓像我們這樣的人向世界傳達新的想法。

[00:22:23]Darren Wong: [00:22:23] Yeah. Thanks so much and talk to you next time then, thank you.

[00:22:23]Darren Wong:[00:22:23]是的。非常感謝,下次再和你談談,謝謝。

[00:22:26]Michael Wong: [00:22:26] Alright, see you later. Thank you. Bye bye.

[00:22:26]邁克爾·王:[00:22:26]好的,回頭見。謝謝您。再見。

[00:22:27]Darren Wong: [00:22:27] Bye bye.

[00:22:27]Darren Wong:[00:22:27]再見。