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Denzity Insights Transcript: Malaysia Real Estate Investing For Foreign Investors with Nicholas How


Malaysia Real Estate Investing For Foreign Investors with Nicholas How

Connect with Nicholas:

Website: www.faizulridzuan.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholashowyew/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/faizul.ridzuan.official

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtfaizul/?hl=en

Email: nicholas@farcapital.com.my

WhatsApp: +60162056965

Today, we have Nicholas sharing about how to pick the right property in Malaysia by helping us expand our knowledge on this topic.

Nicholas How is the Head of Sales for FAR Capital. FAR Capital is one of the biggest private real estate buyer groups in Malaysia and they are on the quest to provide the framework and are committed to educating others on what the factors are that determine a profitable investment portfolio.

An investment guide to Malaysia Real Estate

What are the common mistakes investors make?

How to search for the right property in Malaysia?

Sources:

Home Ownership Campaign in Malaysia: HOC is a campaign led by the Malaysian government in order to increase home purchase or promote homeownership in the country.

https://www.propertyguru.com.my/property-guides/should-you-buy-a-home-ownership-campaign-hoc-project-pros-and-cons-30905

FAR Capital: https://farcapital.com.my

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Darren Wong: So hey Nicholas, thanks for coming to the show.

Insights with Nicholas How

Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] So hey Nicholas, thanks for coming to the show.

 Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]嗨,Nicolas,謝謝你來我們的節目。

[00:00:04]Nicholas: [00:00:04] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

 Nicolas:[00:00:04]謝謝。謝謝你邀請我

[00:00:05]Darren Wong: [00:00:05] Yeah, so to give the audience a bit of a background, we had a [00:00:10] show with Amos I think we launched about a couple of weeks ago and

 Darren Wong:[00:00:05]是的,為了給觀眾一些背景知識,我們在幾週之前邀請了Amos

[00:00:10] 上來我們的節目。 

[00:00:20] it got pretty popular. And then a lot of people told me that they’re actually thinking about Malaysia real estate markets. And then Amos was like, you’re someone that like in the whole market, people know who you are, and you could do a good job. So I’m pretty happy to have you here. And because it’s not only learning

 [00:00:20] 反應很熱烈。然後很多人告訴我,他們實際上正在考慮馬來西亞的房地產市場。然後,Amos說,你是整個市場中家傳戶曉的,而且你做得很好。所以,我很高興你在這裡。因為我們不僅要了解

[00:00:30] about Malaysia market it’s about how to be a better investor. So again, thanks for coming in and it’s gonna be a blast, yeah. So for the audience who may not know who you are, would you mind telling the audience about yourself and the company you work [00:00:40] for?

 [00:00:30] 馬來西亞的房地產市場,還關於如何成為更好的投資者。再次謝謝你的光臨。因此,對於可能不知道你是誰的聽眾,你可否向聽眾介紹自己[00:00:40] 和你工作的公司?

[00:00:45]Nicholas: [00:00:45] My name is Nicholas How. I’m the head of sales for FAR Capital, number one. So for FAR

 [00:00:45]Nicolas:[00:00:45] 我叫Nicholas How。我是FAR Capital的銷售主管。在FAR Capital,

[00:00:50] Capital, what we do is that we are actually the biggest buyers right now in Malaysia. Last year, we transacted approximately around 1.8 billion all the way up until this year. So for the past 18 months we

 [00:00:50] 我們所做的實際上是馬來西亞目前最大的買家。去年,直到今年,我們總共進行了約18億筆交易。因此,在過去的18個月中,我們 

[00:01:00] are arguably the biggest private buyer right now in Malaysia. So, why we’re doing this is because number one, we see a lot of investors, foreigners or

 [00:01:00]可以說是目前馬來西亞最大的私人買家。所以,我們之所以這樣做,是因為第一,我們看到很多投資者,外國人或 

[00:01:10] Malaysians, what they do is they invest without really understanding the fundamentals of our property investment. So from my experience out of

 [00:01:10]馬來西亞人,他們會在沒有真正了解我們房地產投資基礎的情況下進行投資。因此,根據我的經驗,

[00:01:20] 100 properties 97 of them will not make you money, it is only like three of them that will actually make you money. So, our objective, our vision for the company is to

 [00:01:20] 在100處的房產中,有97處不會賺錢,只有其中三處會真正為你賺錢。因此,我們的目標是,我們對公司的願景是 

[00:01:30] actually increase the knowledge of property investment, increase their investors’ knowledge so that they can actually make money. So as an investor, and the only thing that you want to do is make

 [00:01:30] 實際增加投資者對房地產投資的知識,以便他們實際上可以賺錢。因此,作為投資者,你唯一要做的就是 

[00:01:40] money, right, so we want to, we want to mitigate that, the people that are losing money. That’s the main objective.

 [00:01:40] 賺錢,對吧,所以我們想要,所以我們希望緩和那些正在虧錢的人。這是主要的目標。

[00:01:47]Darren: [00:01:47] I see. Yeah, I think when we had a [00:01:50] call, I think a month ago, and the call was actually really good because it obviously tells how much you care about this. And there’s one thing you measure right away it’s price, price, price, not

 [00:01:47]Darren:[00:01:47] 我明白了。對了,在大概一個月前,我們[00:01:50] 通過電話,這個通話實際上非常好,因為它顯然表明了你對此有多關心。而有一件事你立即衡量的是價格,價格,價格,而不是 

[00:02:00] location, location, location. Would you mind elaborating that to the audience? Because I think when you shared some insight about the Malaysia market and how things are, I was kind of shocked, I never

 [00:02:00]位置,位置,位置。你介意將其詳細介紹給聽眾嗎?因為我認為,當你分享一些有關馬來西亞市場和現狀的見解時,我感到非常震驚,我以前

[00:02:10] heard of that before. So would you mind elaborating that further?

 [00:02:10] 從未聽說過。因此,你介意進一步說明嗎? 

[00:02:13]Nicholas: [00:02:13] Alright, so I think everyone heard about this. Live on trauma calling location, location,

[00:02:13]Nicolas:[00:02:13] 好的,所以我想每個人都聽說過這一點,像咒語般的位置,位置,

[00:02:20] location. I think it went all the way until Hong Kong. It has been prevalent in Malaysia. But from research or from deepest point of view, when you look at it right, location actually

[00:02:20]位置。我認為這一直流行到香港。它在馬來西亞很普遍。但是從研究或最深層的角度來看,只要正確看待,位置實際上 

[00:02:30] doesn’t play that important of a role. I’ll give you an example. KLCC, majority of the Hong Kong viewers, your Hong Kong viewers would know where KLCC is right? They’ve got the best location in terms of

[00:02:30]扮演的角色並不重要。我舉一個例子。吉隆坡城中城(KLCC),大多數的香港觀眾,你的香港觀眾會知道KLCC在哪裡嗎?就地理位置而言,

[00:02:40] location wise, they’re the best. You’ve got your LRT station, you’ve got your shopping, one of the best shopping malls, you’ve got Grade A offices, you’ve got hotels, so in terms of location,

[00:02:40] 他們擁有最好的位置,他們坐擁黃金地段。那裡有輕軌站,購物場所,最好的購物中心之一,甲級寫字樓,酒店,因此在地理位置上, 

[00:02:50] there’s no place primer compared to KLCC. So that is like the financial center of KL. Yeah, or the oil and gas center of KL, right. But if

[00:02:50]與KLCC相比,沒有比它更好的了。這就像吉隆坡的金融中心。是的,或者是吉隆坡的石油和天然氣中心,對。但是如果 

[00:03:00] you invested in KLCC 12 years ago, right versus a suburban area called Puchong. There’s a suburban area in Puchong, if you

[00:03:00]你是在12年前投資在KLCC的話,相對於在城郊的蒲種(Puchong)。蒲種有一個城郊區,如果你 

[00:03:10] invested 12 years ago, in KLCC, you would not have made any money. In fact, you might have lost money compared to you investing in Puchong, the suburban area, you would have

[00:03:10] 12年前投資於KLCC,你將不會賺到任何錢。實際上,與在城郊的蒲種投資相比,你可能已經蒙受了損失

[00:03:20] easily doubled what you have, right? So for me personally, it is never about location. It is always about the price

[00:03:20]但相反,你的資產將輕鬆翻倍,對吧?因此,對我個人而言,這與位置無關。它總是與你最初買入 

[00:03:30] that you bought into. So it could be one of the not so pride area like Puchong, but if you have bought it cheap enough, over the long

[00:03:30] 的價格有關。因此,它可能是像蒲種這種沒有高度發展的地區之一,但是如果你以足夠便宜的價格購買了它,從長遠 

[00:03:40] run, the property price has got a higher tendency to increase or double versus paying a premium price for a premium location and it would just be

[00:03:40] 來看,與為優質地段支付溢價相比,蒲種的房地產價格有增加或翻倍的趨勢,相反,優質地點的地價只會

[00:03:50] stagnant. So for me, for the viewers for everyone else that is listening location, location location is important, but not as

[00:03:50] 停滯不前。所以對我來說,對於其他位置的觀眾來說,位置很重要,但不及 

[00:04:00] important as understanding the price that you’re paying. Not as important as understanding the median price that you’re paying. So from their point of view, so just to give a context to your viewers right,

[00:04:00] 了解你所支付的價格來得重要;不像了解你要支付的中位數來得重要。因此,從他們的角度來看,為了給你的觀眾一個框架,

[00:04:10] when they are coming to Malaysia, the first place that they’re looking at will always be KLCC. So that is how the agents has framed them. That’s how the real estate agency in Malaysia

[00:04:10]當他們來馬來西亞時,他們所關注的第一個地方永遠是KLCC。這樣便是那些代理商如何框著他們。馬來西亞的房地產中介 

[00:04:20] has brought them over. But what they do not understand is that in the KLCC, median price, anything you pick above 1500 ringgit, you will

[00:04:20] 就是這樣把他們帶過來的。但是,他們不了解的是,在KLCC的中位數中,如果你選擇的價格高於1500令吉, 

[00:04:30] not make money. So you understand median price, first and foremost, you understand the median of that area, and then you understand whether you’re buying below median, or above

[00:04:30] 你將不會賺錢。因此,你首先要了解的就是中位數,你要了解該區域的中位數,然後再了解物業價格是低於中位數還是高於 

[00:04:40] median, anything that you buy below median, you have got a higher chance of making money. And if you’re buying above median, that’s where you have a higher chance of losing [00:04:50] money.

[00:04:40]中位數,任何低於中位數的物業,就有更大的獲利機會。如果你付的價錢是高於中位數的話,你就有更大的機會

[00:04:50] 會虧損。 

[00:04:52]Darren Wong: [00:04:52] So you know, that’s something that’s interesting, because that’s the point you mentioned before over the call. And I was kind of shocked. I never thought that way. So in that regard

Darren Wong:[00:04:52]所以,你知道,這很有趣,因為這是你之前在通話中提到的重點。我有點震驚。我從來沒有那樣想過。所以在這方面 

[00:05:00] what are some things that the audience can do to mitigate that because it sounds like a very gray area, like there are assets that you have to buy, certain price points, but then that is a gray

[00:05:00]觀眾可以採取哪些措施來緩解這種情況呢?因為這聽起來像是一個灰色地帶,例如你必須購買某些資產,在特定的價格點,但那是個灰色

[00:05:10] area because not many people can afford it, for example, in this case, right, how would we mitigate it?

[00:05:10]地帶,因為沒有多少人能負擔得起,例如,在這種情況下,對,我們將如何緩解呢? 

[00:05:15]Nicholas: [00:05:15] So how we mitigate it is that I’m going to be sharing my screen if you don’t mind.

[00:05:15]Nicolas:[00:05:15]因此,我們的緩解措施是,如果你不介意,我將會共享我的屏幕。 

[00:05:19]Darren Wong: [00:05:19] Sure go [00:05:20] ahead, yeah.

Darren Wong:[00:05:19]當然[00:05:20],去吧。 

[00:05:27]Nicholas: [00:05:27] There are actually a few criterias for your investors or for your viewers alright. So there are actually a few criterias that you need to be aware

[00:05:27]Nicolas:[00:05:27]實際上,對於你的投資者或你的觀眾來說,有幾項標準。因此,實際上你需要留意幾項標準 

[00:05:30] of. I’m going to share with you this – actually quite a simple investment criteria. There’s only five. So let me share my [00:05:40] screen…I can’t share screen.

[00:05:30]。我將與你分享這一點-實際上是一個簡單的投資標準。只有五個。因此,讓我分享我的[00:05:40]屏幕…我無法分享屏幕。 

[00:05:43] Darren Wong: [00:05:43] Okay so what I can do is you can tell me which slide and then I can put that on our videos.

Darren Wong: [00:05:43]好吧,我能做的就是你告訴我哪張幻燈片,然後將其放到我們的影片中。 

[00:05:49]Nicholas: [00:05:49] Alright so [00:05:50] this is actually slide number five, alright? So, slide number five, you can actually see there’s a five investment criteria for your particular viewers. So, what happens is this

Nicolas:[00:05:49]好吧,[00:05:50]這實際上是第五張幻燈片,對吧?因此,在第五張幻燈片中,你實際上可以看到針對特定觀眾的五個投資標準。所以事情是這樣的 

[00:06:00] number one, if you’re looking at buying into Malaysia, the first thing you need to look into is the international expat community.

[00:06:00]第一,如果你打算在馬來西亞置業,那麼你需要考慮的第一件事就是國際社區。 

[00:06:10] So as a Hong Kong buyer, the first thing you need to understand is that you must look into the expat community. That’s where the Hong Kong people are. That’s where they

[00:06:10]因此,作為香港買家,你需要了解的第一件事是,你必須了解移居海外者的

群體。那就是香港人的所在地。他們在那裡 

[00:06:20] spend their days there. That’s where they buy their property, that’s where they send their kids to school. That’s where they buy their groceries. You need to have this kind of support system in place.

[00:06:20]在那裡消磨時光。那是他們置業的地方,那是他們送孩子上學的地方。那是他們買雜貨的地方。你需要這種的支持系統。 

[00:06:30] First things first, you need to get that support system in place for you to have a very meaningful stay in Malaysia, right? There’s no point for you buying in a place even though the building might be great,

[00:06:30]首先,你需要有一個支持系統,才能在馬來西亞享有非常有意義的住宿,對吧?即使建築物可能很棒,但是你沒有一個支持系統的話,也沒有必要在某個地方置業吧

[00:06:40] but you’ve got no support system. So always focus on the international expat community. These people have been in Malaysia for the past 10-15 years. They know for a fact that whether the property that they bought is actually a good one

[00:06:40]。因此,請專注於國際社區。這些人過去10到15年一直在馬來西亞。他們知道一個事實,那就是他們購買的房產實際上是否是一個好的物業 

[00:06:50] or a bad one, right. Number two, always focus on the international schools. Now I’m gonna take a step into KLCC right. There’s a reason why the rich

[00:06:50]還是不好的物業。第二,始終專注於國際學校。現在,我將在踏入KLCC。在馬來西亞的有錢人,

[00:07:00] people in Malaysia, right, or the rich people who are the experts don’t particularly choose KLCC, if they’ve got a family it’s because the lack of

[00:07:00]或者是外來的有錢人並沒有特別選擇KLCC,如果他們有家庭,那是因為KLCC缺乏 

[00:07:10] international schools in KLCC, right? So if you are single, the likelihood of you choosing KLCC is quite high, because, you

[00:07:10]國際學校,對吧?因此,如果你單身,那麼你選擇KLCC的可能性就很高,因為 

[00:07:20] know, you’d want to stay there, there’s got a nightlife, that et cetera, et cetera. But if you’ve got a family, you’ve got a wife, two kids and a dog, right? You don’t want to choose KLCC, because there’s a lack of international schools, or you need to drive two hours, to and for approximately, two hours to just to send your kids to school and go back

[00:07:20]你會想呆在那裡,那裡有夜生活,等等。但是如果你有一個家庭,你有一個妻子,兩個孩子和一條狗的話,你不會想選擇KLCC,因為那裡缺少國際學校,或者你需要開車兩個小時左右才能送孩子上學並返回 

[00:07:30] to your office, right? So always focus on international schools, you need to have that if you’re looking

[00:07:30]到你的辦公室,對吧?所以,你想在這裡在長期居留的話

[00:07:40] to stay here longer. The third one is actually the commercial vibrancy, and also the first class infrastructure. You don’t want to stay in a place where there’s not even a

[00:07:40] 必須專注於國際學校 。第三個實際上是商業活力和一流的基礎設施。你不會想呆在一個沒有正式的 

[00:07:50] proper mall, right? So you’ve got to always look for something with a proper mall, with a proper grocer that you can do your shopping in and your first class infrastructure meaning

[00:07:50]購物中心的地方吧?因此,你必須尋找一個有合適的購物中心,可以買菜的雜貨店的地方。而一流的基礎設施是指

[00:08:00] your highways, alright. So all these things contribute to a better living standard, if you’re planning to stay here, or you’re planning to invest here, because you see, once you buy into

[00:08:00]高速公路,好的。所以,如果你打算留在這裡,或者打算在這裡投資,那麼所有這些事情都會有助於改善生活水平,因為一旦你在

[00:08:10] Malaysia, the dream or the bargain is to actually rent it out to expats. Right? The expats will always look into these criterias first and foremost, so the chances of

[00:08:10]馬來西亞置業,最理想的情況是把物業出租給外籍人士。對吧?外派人員會始終首先考慮這些標準,所以 

[00:08:20] you getting an expat tenant is much higher if you follow the criteria, right? So number four, you always have a plan B, right? So I know it’s going to be

[00:08:20]如果你遵循這些準則,你得到外籍租戶的機會會高得多,對吧?所以第四點,你總是會有一個B計劃,對吧?所以我知道這將會是 

[00:08:30] very, very hard for your viewers to identify the median price because it takes local knowledge of local capabilities to identify

[00:08:30]對於你的觀眾來說,確定中間位價格非常非常困難,因為需要有本地的知識來確定 

[00:08:40] the median price of the area, and then use the property to benchmark against the median price of the area. So you need the local knowledge, right? So it’s actually quite rather simple if it’s for your

[00:08:40]該區域的中間價格,然後使用該物業來作為該地區的中間價格的基準。所以你需要當地知識,對吧?因此,對於你的觀眾來說

[00:08:50] own viewers. You always have a plan B. Now, what Plan B means is this. A lot of people are agents in the approach you, they’ll say hey, you’re buying for own stay so it

[00:08:50]其實十分簡單。你總是需要有一個B計劃。現在, B計劃的意思是,很多人是採用這種方式的代理商,他們會說,嘿,你是買來自住的,所以

[00:09:00] doesn’t matter. As long as you like it, buy, you can afford, buy. that is not a good idea or a good strategy. The reason why is because what if you want to move back to 

[00:09:00]沒關係。只要你喜歡,就買吧,只要你負擔得起,就買吧。但那不是一個好主意或一個好的策略。原因是因為如果你想在5至10年後搬回

[00:09:10] Hong Kong after 5 to 10 years? What if you want to move back? Right? What if you want to move to Singapore? Right? People need change, people want change, right? So having a

[00:09:10]香港該怎麼辦?如果你想回去怎麼辦?對吧?如果你想搬到新加坡怎麼辦?對吧?人們需要改變,人們想要改變,對吧?所以有一個 

[00:09:20] plan B makes sure that you number one, first and foremost, you don’t lose money, right? So always look for properties that will give you a 4% rental yield.

[00:09:20]B計劃確保你首先,你不會有虧損,對吧?因此,請務必尋找能給你帶來4%租金收益的物業。

[00:09:30] So now, why do I say that is that if you look at the median price of a median price of KLCC, and you take any properties in KLCC, take the rental, the average

[00:09:30]現在,為什麼我要說的是,如果你看一下KLCC的中位數價格,並且你選擇KLCC中的任何物業,那麼就將租金,

[00:09:40] rental on that area, divided up by your purchase price, you can actually see you can roughly know whether you’re hitting the 4% or not. So always focus on the properties that will give you the 4% and

[00:09:40]該區平均的租金除以買入的,你實際上可以大致了解到自己是否達到了4%。因此,請始終專注於可為你帶來4%和的物業

[00:09:50] if you can hit the 4% rental you’re relatively safe, you’re at least on median, right? So number five, always remember never pay

[00:09:50]如果你能達到4%的租金水平,那你就相對安全了,你至少位於中位數,對吧?所以第五點,記住永遠不要付出 

[00:10:00] foreigner price. Now this is an insight to your viewers. This is an insight to your investors that a lot of people dare not say it out loud. I’m gonna make a lot of enemies right here

[00:10:00]外國人的價格。現在,這對你的觀眾來說是一種見解。這是對你的投資者的一種洞悉,很多人不敢大聲說出來。我這樣說將會在這裡結交很多敵人 。

 [00:10:10] to say this but I will say it out. A lot of times these projects that are brought over to Hong Kong are all the mitering for meaning we cannot

[00:10:10]但我會說出來。很多時候,這些移交給香港的項目都意味著我們無法在當地

[00:10:20] sell, Malaysians don’t want to buy; I’ve exhausted every opportunity, every avenue to sell to Malaysians, I cannot sell. Now I bring it to Hong Kong

[00:10:20]出售,馬來西亞人不想買入;我已經用盡了所有機會,每種途徑賣給馬來西亞人,但我無法賣掉。現在我把它們帶到香港 

[00:10:30] hopefully, willingly taking in people who are most likely getting suckered into this. So they always have a foreigner price that they sell it to Hong Kong.

[00:10:30]希望能吸引到那些最有可能掉下陷阱的人。因此,他們總是以外國人的價格賣給香港人。 

[00:10:40] The reason why is because even with the Malaysian price this price does not make sense to Malaysians. Even the Malaysians noble rich, Malaysians are rich. If you look at the Mount

[00:10:40]原因是因為即使以馬來西亞價格計算,這個價格對馬來西亞人也不合理。即使是馬來西亞人高尚的有錢人,馬來西亞人也有錢。如果你看滿家樂的

[00:10:50] Kiera price versus the KLCC price, yeah actually more or less the same. Look at ttdi Obasanjo more or less the same, but the Malaysians will buy Mont Keira, the Malaysians will buy Bangsa, will buy ttdi

[00:10:50] 價錢與KLCC的價錢,實際上差不多一樣。看看Taman Tun Dr. Ismail (TTDI)的Obasanjo差不多還是一樣,但是馬來西亞人會購買滿家樂,馬來西亞人會買入Bangsa,也會買入 TTDI。

[00:11:00] and they will not buy overpriced, hyped up stuff, right or predominately KLCC. So those are the things that they are actually pushing out to foreigners,

[00:11:00]他們不會購買定價過高或大肆炒作的東西,對吧,或是KLCC。這些就是他們實際上向外國人推出的東西, 

[00:11:10] the leftovers that nobody wants. So focus on these five criterias you will most likely never make the wrong purchase focus on these five areas. That’s my advice to your [00:11:20] buyers.

[00:11:10]沒有人想要的物業。因此,專注於這五個標準,專注在5個標準上的話,你很可能不會做出錯誤的決定。這是我對[00:11:20]買家的建議。 

[00:11:20]Darren Wong: [00:11:20] Right that’s really good because there’s a couple of things you mentioned it’s something I think I told you before I used to be on the buy side. And then we always understood that

Darren Wong:[00:11:20]很好,因為你提到了幾件事,是我以前作為買家時曾經告訴過你的。然後我們總是明白到 

[00:11:30] if some deals are pushing foreigners from across the board, like across the ocean or something, there’s a really big foreigner price and it’s

[00:11:30]如果某些交易以一洋之隔的外國人為目標的,那麼交易的價格會是龐大的外國人價格,而且 

[00:11:40] something that I hope that our product can bridge and the same that you can find direct channel, find direct expert in the location instead of paying a

[00:11:40]我希望我們的產品可以橋接,你可以找到直接渠道,可以直接找到當地的專家,而不是支付一定的佣金 

[00:11:50] premium because there’s no point and then that 1% or 2% means a lot when it comes to real estate investing. So go back a little bit and obviously by the way, that was really good insight because it’s somebody

[00:11:50]因為那毫無意義,然後就房地產投資而言那1%或2%的佣金意味著很多。所以回頭再說一遍,顯然,那是非常好的見解,因為有人 

[00:12:00] that not only applies to Malaysia, it’s applied to many different cities it’s that, for example, you said before the tenant might be different maybe just because you’re single or like me, or living in the

[00:12:00]這不僅適用於馬來西亞,還適用於許多不同的城市,例如,你之前就說過對於租戶來說可能有所不同,可能僅僅是因為你是單身或者像我一樣,是住在 

[00:12:10] city, but if you think about putting yourself in the shoes on someone who’s a family, they might be something else. So I want to go back a little bit on the fourth point, right? When [00:12:20] you say 4% rent, does that mean the gross or net?

[00:12:10]城市,但是如果你是有家室的,那就可能有另一些考慮的因素。所以我想回到第四點,對吧?當[00:12:20]時,你說租金是4%,那是毛額還是淨額? 

[00:12:26]Nicholas: [00:12:26] It could be gross, right? To get 4% rental [00:12:30] you are looking across, I’m not very familiar with the interest rate in Hong Kong. But in Malaysia right now, it’s actually less than 3%. The effective rate is

Nicolas:[00:12:26]可能毛額,對嗎?要獲得4%的租金[00:12:30],我對香港的利率不是很熟悉。但目前在馬來西亞,這一比例實際上不到3%。實效率為 

[00:12:40] 3.5, 3.4. You’re getting a 4% basically means that you’re covering everything that you have. So taking 4% is actually not a bad deal, especially if you’re a foreigner buying something

[00:12:40] 3.5,3.4。你獲得4%基本上意味著你能回本。所以拿取4%實際上不是一件壞事,特別是如果你是一個外國人

[00:12:50] here, right? So for me hitting that 4% is good enough for the foreigners. And just to add on to your point right saying

[00:12:50]在這裡購買物業,對嗎?所以對我來說,達到4%的租金對外國人來說足夠了。只是為了補充你的意見

[00:13:00] that looking at agents or looking at, you know, experts or whatnot, right? My suggestion to your viewers, don’t believe any expert, any agent, anyone,

[00:13:00]在中介或專家或其他專家,對吧?我對你的觀眾的建議是,不要相信任何專家,任何中介,任何人, 

[00:13:10] just follow the five criteria, you can make your own decision really. So just like that, yeah, you have just broken the code of investing in Malaysia alright. So you don’t have to believe me, you don’t have to believe

[00:13:10]只要遵循這五個標準,你就可以真正做出自己的決定。就是這樣,你剛剛拆開了在馬來西亞投資的密碼。所以你不必相信我,你不必相信 任何人

[00:13:20] in whoever so long as you follow this criteria and say, “Hey, do I have an expat community here? Hey, do I have an international school here? Hey, do I have a you know, first class infrastructure,

[00:13:20]只要你遵循此標準並說:“嗨,這裡有外國人社區嗎?嗨,這裡有國際學校嗎?嗨,這裡有一流的基礎設施 

[00:13:30] my commercial vibrancy is there? Can I get a 4% complete for me? Can I get a 4% and actually, am I paying a foreigner price here? What is everybody paying around here?” With these five criteria

[00:13:30]和商業活力嗎?我可以得到4%的租金嗎?我可以得到4%的租金,實際上,我是在支付外國人價格嗎?每個人都付什麼樣的價格呢?”有了這五個標準 

[00:13:40] you will never go wrong with investing in property as a foreigner.

[00:13:40]你作為外國人投資房地產絕對不會出錯。 

[00:13:44]Darren Wong: [00:13:44] I see. Because I’m sure you’re aware, this show, this whole series is for [00:13:50] foreigners to learn about the different markets and in this case, it’s the Malaysia properties right. So I have a two part question because a lot of people start rely on real estate platforms, right and then

[00:13:44]Darren Wong:[00:13:44]我明白了。因為我想,你也知道這整個節目,是讓[00:13:50]外國人了解關於不同的市場,在這種情況下,這是馬來西亞房地產的產權。所以我有一個兩部分的問題,因為很多人開始依賴房地產平台,然後 

[00:14:00] I know that in Malaysia there’s you know, Iproperty, Property Guru, Brickz, like already useful and what is something that people can rely on and at the same time

[00:14:00]我知道在馬來西亞,像Iproperty,Property Guru,Brickz已經很有用,人們可以同時依賴什麼呢? 

[00:14:10] what are somethings that they are not good at, you know you need that five criteria before to compensate. And another question is with these platforms

[00:14:10]它們不擅長的是什麼,你知道需要那五個標準來輔助。另一個問題是這些平台 

[00:14:20] or other ways, what are some ways that you suggest them to assess and search for the right properties?

[00:14:20]或其他方式,你建議他們有哪些方法能評估和尋找對的物業? 

[00:14:26]Nicholas: [00:14:26] Okay, so I’m gonna say the first tackle, [00:14:30] the first question first, what’s the pros and cons right? I think each and every platform has got their own strengths. Use Brickz. Personally, I use Brickz,

[00:14:26]Nicolas:[00:14:26]好的,所以我要回答第一個問題,[00:14:30]首先要問的第一個問題是 它們的優缺點,對吧?我認為每個平台都有自己的優勢。就像Brickz。我個人使用Brickz, 

[00:14:40] I use Brickz to identify the products that are transacted prices. Brickz, always has the transacted prices right. I use Brickz and then

[00:14:40]我使用Brickz來確定物業的交易價格。Brickz總是有正確的交易價格。我用Brickz然後 

[00:14:50] I go over to Iproperty or Property Guru to actually double check on the listing price. So the reason why is because of this, there’s

[00:14:50]我轉到Iproperty或Property Guru來仔細檢查定價。之所以這樣是因為 

[00:15:00] also practice in Malaysia, again, I’m gonna be making a lot of enemies here alright. Listing price is 1 million ringgit, meaning I’m asking from you Darren, I’m selling my property to

[00:15:00]同樣在馬來西亞的做法是,我會再次的結交很多敵人。定價為一百萬令吉,這意味著我向Darren你問,我要把我的物業以一百萬令吉

[00:15:10] you at 1 million ringgit. When I go over to Brickz and I look at the transacted price right, it becomes 2 million ringgit. So it’s illogical, right? I’m telling you, “Hey Darren,

[00:15:10]賣給你。當我到Brickz並查看交易價格時,該價格變為200萬令吉。這不合邏輯,對吧?我告訴你,“嗨,Darren, 

[00:15:20] you want to buy my property a million ringgit?”, then you tell me, “No, I want to buy it for 2 million.” It doesn’t make sense, right. But this is what’s happening in Malaysia in some

[00:15:20]你想以一百萬令吉的價錢買我的物業?”然後你告訴我:“不,我想以200萬令吉的價錢購入。”這沒有道理,對吧。但這在馬來西亞正在發生

[00:15:30] part of Malaysia, some part of games on peninsula some part of the projects right? Due to the fact that they want to mark up the transaction price, it’s a fake transaction.

[00:15:30]在馬來西亞的某部分,在半島上的一些樓盤的一些把戲,對吧?由於他們想提高交易價格,這是假的交易。 

[00:15:40] So they use this transaction to show to investors and say look, I’ve got a transaction price of 2 million, but in actual fact, the actual asking price is only a million ringgit. So for me,

[00:15:40]因此,他們利用此交易來向投資者展示並說,我的交易價格為200萬令吉,但實際上,實際要價僅為100萬令吉。所以對我來說 

[00:15:50] to your viewers what I would suggest is to use Brickz to identify the transaction price, once you identify which one then go over to Iproperty or Property Guru to identify those

[00:15:50]對你的觀眾來說,我建議你使用Brickz來確定成交價格,一旦確定了價格,然後轉到Iproperty或Property Guru來確定

[00:16:00] particular projects, give those agents the call to check, double check and triple check the numbers. Use that one. That’s what buying properties right. As for

[00:16:00]特定項目,給那些中介打電話檢查,仔細看清楚並再三檢查銀碼。用那個銀碼。這就是購買房地產的正確方法。至於 

[00:16:10] rental in itself in Iproperty and Property Guru, there’s a lot of rental being asked. So the rental let’s say for example is 3000. ringgit right? Transacted rental might be

[00:16:10] 在Iproperty 和 Property Guru上出租的物業,有很多都被問價。舉例來說,租金是3000令吉對吧?成交的租金可能是 

[00:16:20] a bit lower, technically, from my experience, majority of them are a bit lower, call them to ask, not as, not as the renter, but as an owner,

[00:16:20]低一點,從技術上來說,根據我的經驗,很多的物業的租金都會比較低,打電話給中介問,不是以租客,而是以業主, 

[00:16:30] call the agents to ask them, “Hey, I’m an owner of this property. Can you tell me how much realistically can you rent it out?” The agents will tell you the truth, “Oh actually, you

[00:16:30]打電話給中介,問他們:“嗨,我是這套房產的業主。你能告訴我你實際上可以以什麼價錢租出?” 中介會告訴你真相,“噢,實際上,你 

[00:16:40] can only rent it out for $2500.” But I’ll put $3000 just in case they negotiate then we’ll bring it down. So use those platforms wisely. Use

[00:16:40]可以以2500元租出去。“但我會寫3000美元,以防他們討價還價,然後我們會把價錢降低。所以,請明智地使用這些平台。 

[00:16:50] those platforms to identify the prices, the actual prices, I’m teaching you the insight trick of how to use it, and use it wisely. That’s how the second question apologies I actually [00:17:00] missed the second question.

[00:16:50]用這些平台來識別價格,實際的價錢,我正在教你如何使用並明智地使用它的洞察力技巧。這就是如何第二個問題很抱歉我其實[00:17:00] 跳過了第二個問題

[00:17:02]Darren: [00:17:02] Oh so I think you mentioned before, what suggestions do you have for the audience to assess and search for the right [00:17:10] properties?

[00:17:02]Darren:[00:17:02]噢,我想你之前已經提到過,所以你有什麼建議供觀眾評估和搜索正確的[00:17:10]物業? 

[00:17:11]Nicholas: [00:17:11] Alright, look at again, go back to the five criteria. Once you identify the five criteria, you identify you.

[00:17:11]Nicolas:[00:17:11]好吧,再看一遍,再次回到五個的標準。一旦確定了五個標準,你就可以確定你的地區

[00:17:20] Search via Property Guru or Iproperty or anyway search for those properties and identify those. For me, my suggestion to your viewers is use those

[00:17:20]然後通過Property Guru或Iproperty進行搜索,或者搜索這些物業並進行標識。對我來說,我對你的觀眾的建議是使用那些 

[00:17:30] search engines, you will find any and all type of properties, okay. It’s just that

[00:17:30]搜索引擎,你會發現所有類型的不同的物業,好的。就是這樣 

[00:17:40] the caveat to it is that how do you then identify? Is this property good or bad? So that’s the only caveat. So for me, I use Property Guru and Iproperty to search for properties. It is just that from there onwards, how do I then identify whether this one is good? Please bear in mind or remember the first

[00:17:40]只是要注意的是,你如何確定這物業是好是壞呢?這是唯一的警告。所以,對我來說,我使用Property Guru和Iproperty來搜索物業。只是從那以後,我該如何確定這物業是否好?請記住

[00:17:50] rule, hard and first rule is that 97% of the properties in Malaysia won’t make money. So you need to, your audience needs to use the five criteria again to assess or [00:18:00] identify that 3% of the properties.

[00:17:50]首要的規則是,馬來西亞97%的物業不會賺錢。因此,你需要,你的觀眾需要再次使用這五個標準來評估或[00:18:00]確認那3%的物業。 

[00:18:03]Darren Wong: [00:18:03] I see. So there’s something that you mentioned before it’s called the property grading template from you.

Darren Wong:[00:18:03]我明白了。所以,你之前提到過一樣東西,它被你稱為物業評分模板。 

[00:18:10] Would you mind telling the audience like how they use it because I think you’re generous enough to tell us that, hey, there’s a place where you can download a link in the show notes and everything. Like Would you mind elaborating on what

[00:18:10]你介意告訴觀眾是如何使用它的嗎?因為我認為你已經慷慨地告訴我們,嗨,你可以在節目的資訊欄下載這條鏈結還有其他的資料。你介意詳細說明 

[00:18:20] this is for and then how people can use it?

[00:18:20]它的用處和人們能如何使用它嗎?

[00:18:22]Nicholas: [00:18:22] Right. So I’m going to use this grading system that we have faculty has used this grading system. Right. You have a grade A, B, C, D,

[00:18:22]Nicolas:[00:18:22]好的。所以,我會用這個在FAR Capital也使用的評分系統。有五個等級,A,B,C,D, E級。

[00:18:30] and E. Right? 97% of them, the properties like the 97% will be grade C, D, and grade E. Now what does that

[00:18:30]其中有97%的房產,分別是C,D和E級。 那是

[00:18:40] mean? Grade E, I’m going to go for grade E, grade E is where you actually lose more than $100,000. If you purchase a property

[00:18:40]什麼意思?E級,首先是E級,E級實際上是你損失超過100,000令吉的物業。如果你今天買入物業 

[00:18:50] today, when you want to sell it five years later, five years later down the road. So you will be losing more than $100,000. So

[00:18:50]當您想在五年後將其出售時。你將損失超過100,000令吉。所以 

[00:19:00] that’s one. Number two, in terms of cash flow, negative will be more than $600 all the way to $2000 ringgit. Every month,

[00:19:00]那是其一。第二,在現金流方面,負數將一直超過600令吉直到2000令吉。每個月, 

 [00:19:10] you’re losing money up until $2000 a year. And if you sell, you lose more than $100,000 ringgit. So there’s a huge loss, right? So

[00:19:10]你都在賠錢,可以去到每年 2000令吉的損失。如果賣出,你將損失超過100,000令吉。所以會有巨大的損失,對不對?所以 

[00:19:20] that’s grade E. So there’s also a grade D. Where you’ve got no profit, even if you sell or you lost $50,000 ringgit when you sell. Negative every month up until $500

[00:19:20]那是E級。然後到D級。即使你賣出,你也沒有獲利,什至賣出時損失了$ 50,000令吉,而且每月都有高達500令吉的負數。

[00:19:30] ringgit, so that’s grade D, right. Grade C is that you don’t lose, you don’t win when you sell. Your cash flow is break

[00:19:30]那是D級,對。C級是當你賣出時,打和了。你的現金流每個月

[00:19:40] even every month, meaning your rental is just enough to cover in installments, plus your maintenance fee. So that’s grade C, 97% of the properties in Malaysia will fall into grade C, grade D and grade

[00:19:40]都收支平衡,這意味著你的租金足以支付分期付款的費用和維護的費用。所以,這是C級,在馬來西亞97%的物業都可分為C級,D級和 

[00:19:50] E. So what we are looking for in FAR capital there’s only grade A and grade B and which I hope from your audience’s as well they’re going to be using this

[00:19:50] E級.因此,我們在FAR Capital尋找的只有A級和B級,我也希望你的聽眾也將使用此

[00:20:00] template to look for properties as well. So grade B is where upon completion when you sell it, there’s minimum 10% upside.

[00:20:00]模板來尋找物業。B級是你賣出時會有10%的升幅。

[00:20:10] Cash flow is positive cash flow by $100 to $200.All right, grade a is where upon exit the property, when you sell the

[00:20:10]現金流是有一到兩百元的增幅。好的,A級是當你出售物業時,

[00:20:20] property, you’re making 20%. While cash flow will be positive more than $300 ringgit. So, we are focusing on Grade A and Grade B only.

[00:20:20]你賺了20%。而現金流則有多於三百元的增幅。所以,我們只會專注在A級和B級的物業上。

[00:20:30] So, how do you then access capital appreciation and cash flow right? Again, you go back to the original template, the criteria

[00:20:30]那麼,你如何才能獲得資本增值和現金流呢?再次,您回到原先的模板,即那五個條件 

[00:20:40] that we have, the five criteria so as an foreign investor, there’s a lot of properties that you can’t be buying. Anything that is below 1 million ringgit in Kuala Lumpur you can’t buy; anything below 2 million ringgit in

[00:20:40]我們有五個條件,所以作為一名外國投資者,有很多你無法購買的房地產。在吉隆坡,任何低於一百萬令吉的物業你都無法購買;在] Salalah,低於200萬令吉的物業

[00:20:50] Salalah, you can’t buy. So you have to buy above 2 million you have to buy above a million. So you’re even more limited in terms of property that you’re purchasing. Understand this

[00:20:50你都無法購買。因此,你必須購買200萬以上的物業,而你必須購買100萬以上的物業。因此,你所買入的物業受到了更大的限制。了解這個 

[00:21:00] grading. Use this grading, and then you use those criteria. If you use those criteria, you’re most likely to hit either a Grade B or C. Will you be able to

[00:21:00]評分。使用此評分,然後套用那些標準。如果使用這些標準,則最有可能找到是B級或C級的物業。有可能

[00:21:10] hit a grade A? The answer is yes, but you’re looking like a diamond in the rough. You’re the whole of careless law law. Mind you, I can only think of

[00:21:10]買到A級的物業?答案是可以,但是機會很微。在整個吉隆坡找到的機會很少。提醒你,我只能想到 

[00:21:20] one project in the past two to years. Only one project that is suitable for foreign investors.

[00:21:20]在過去的幾年中只有一個項目。只有一個是適合外國投資者的項目。 

Darren: [00:21:23] Wow, that’s very, very crazy then. Wow. Wow, that’s a that’s a very, very crazy, then.

Darren:[00:21:23]哇,那真是太瘋狂了。哇。哇,那真是太瘋狂了。 

[00:21:30] You know, it’s very hard to find one but I’m sure if someone like you has the groundwork, has the potential, has all the knowledge and everything they can get that kind of opportunities because it’s hard for us I mean, like

[00:21:30]你知道,雖然很難找到一個很好的物業,但是我敢肯定,如果像你一樣打好基礎,而又擁有潛力,擁有需要的知識和一切,他們可以得到這種機會,因為這對我們來說很難,我的意思是 

[00:21:40] if today for example, if I’m not from Hong Kong, where would I know where to invest? And so same as the logic too so it’s often someone on the ground would be a lot easier.

[00:21:40]以今天為例,如果我不是香港人,我怎會知道應該在哪裡投資?而相同的邏輯,因此通常內行的人會容易很多。 

Nicholas: [00:21:48] Let [00:21:50] me add on a bit. Even for Malaysians as well, a lot of Malaysians will be investing in the wrong projects.

Nicolas:[00:21:48]讓我再說[00:21:50]。即使對於馬來西亞人來說,很多馬來西亞人也會在錯誤的項目上進行投資。 

[00:22:00] I know for one project that when they started selling they were selling it for $800 to $900,000 ringgit landed property right. And everybody’s

[00:22:00]我知道一個項目,當他們開始出售時,他們以80到90萬令吉的價錢出售樓盤。每個人的 

 [00:22:10] net give up on first day, the first month, first launch, everything sold out the bought it for $800,000 ringgit. Upon

[00:22:10]網路在第一天,第一個月,首次發行時斷線了,所有的物業都以80萬令吉的價錢賣掉了。到 

[00:22:20] completion I believe there was two to three years ago if I remember correctly, it became a grade E, negative every month was $2500 to $3000 ringgit. When they sell now they

[00:22:20]樓盤完成時我相信是兩到三年前,如果我沒記錯的話,它就變成了E級,每個月的虧損是2500到3000令吉。他們現在賣的時候 

[00:22:30] are looking at $200,000 easily $200,000 to $300,000 loss. So, is that a good investment? The answer is I would say the answer is no in terms of my

[00:22:30]損失是200,000令吉,在200,000到300,000令吉之間的損失。那麼,這是一筆好投資嗎?答案是我會說,就我而言,根據我的標準,答案是不是的。 

[00:22:40] criteria. So what happened is that they actually went against everything the criteria stand for. Is there commercial vibrancy. The answer is no. Is there actually

[00:22:40]因此,發生的事情是他們實際上違反了標準所代表的一切。有商業活力嗎?沒有。真的有

[00:22:50] international schools? No. Is there expat community? No. So a lot of times Malaysians tend to buy properties thinking that they are investors but once they put into the grading system, once they put it into the criteria it becomes totally very, very clear to the investor that they will lose money. But there’s a caveat to it, the criteria for local investors

[00:22:50]國際學校嗎?沒有。有外籍人士社區嗎?沒有。所以很多時候,馬來西亞人傾向於以認為自己是以投資者的身份來購買物業,但是一旦他們進入評級體系,一旦將其納入標準,他們就會非常非常清楚地知道他們會賠錢。但有一個警告,當地投資者的標準 

[00:23:00] and criteria for foreign investors will be [00:23:10] different.

[00:23:00]和外國投資者的標準是有所不同[00:23:10]。 

[00:23:13]Darren Wong: [00:23:13] I see. Okay. Well, I mean, the local one I’m sure we can do a part two in the future if there’s so many gems, there’s so many questions that

Darren Wong:[00:23:13]我明白了。好的。好吧,我的意思是,對於當地房地產投資我們可以之後再開一集來討論。我們有很多問題

[00:23:20] we’re not even halfway yet. So, obviously on behalf of the audience, thanks so much for teaching us how to do it because it means a lot and then so you know, like obviously, right now, the COVID-19 you know,

[00:23:20]我們還沒完成一半。所以,顯然地,代表聽眾,非常感謝你教給我們如何該如何投資。因為這對我們來說意義重大,因為你知道,就像現在,顯然,你知道新冠肺炎,

[00:23:30] like the whole world has had impact from. So, I just want to know, right, with COVID-19 at this moment in time, where do you think we are in the cycle

[00:23:30]對全世界都產生了影響。所以,我想知道,在新冠肺炎肆虐的這個時刻,你認為我們處於房地產市場週期中的什麼位置?

[00:23:40] of the real estate market and then what kind of area and type of investments should oversea investors consider more?

[00:23:40]那麼海外投資者又該考慮什麼樣的地區和類型的投資呢? 

[00:23:47]Nicholas: [00:23:47] Okay. You will have to go [00:23:50] over to slide number four. Okay. So at slide number four, you can actually see the recession in 2009. And what is

[00:23:47]Nicolas:[00:23:47]好的。請[00:23:50]滑到第四張投影片。好的。所以,在第四張投影片上,你可以看到2009年的經濟衰退。 

[00:24:00] happening in 2020. So I’m bragging. The reason why I’m bragging is because Malaysia navigated COVID-19 perfectly. I say that because our

[00:24:00] 我之所以在誇耀是因為馬來西亞完美地處理了新冠肺炎。 

[00:24:10] government did a fantastic job containing COVID-19. They did a fantastic job in the stimulus package so that our economy, even though it’s going through a recession, we

[00:24:10] 政府在處理新冠肺炎方面做得非常出色。他們在刺激經濟的計劃中做得非常出色,因此即使經濟處於衰退之中,我們的經濟 

[00:24:20] will come back up faster, we will come back up stronger. If you look at number one, right, the statue reserved for the banks, we need the cash to be saved right is at 1%

[00:24:20]會更快恢復,我們會變得更強大。如果你看第一點,對,這是銀行的存款準備金,我們需要那些現金保留在1% 

[00:24:30] while in 2020, we have more cash, right? OBR at that particular time he said 2% are right now he said at this but this one was done quite some time was a

[00:24:30]而到2020年,我們會有更多現金,對吧?OBR在那個特定的時間說2%就是現在他說的這個,但是這個我們已經做了一段很長時間了 

[00:24:40] 2.5%. We have actually reduced the rate even further, right. In 2009. Over 30 billion stimulus was actually announced. Well, this year due to COVID-19, we announced over 200 and

[00:24:40] 2.5%。實際上,我們實際上已進一步降低了利率。在2009年。實際上宣布了超過300億元的刺激方案。好吧,由於新冠肺炎,今年我們宣布了二千

 [00:24:50] 50 billion stimulus packages. In 2009 that was during the financial crisis, right? There’s no moratorium, so everybody still has to

[00:24:50] 五百億元的刺激方案。在2009年的刺激方案是因為金融危機,對吧?那時沒有遲延償還期,所以每個人仍然必須 

[00:25:00] pay their loan. In 2020, there’s automatic load monitoring, which for the next four for six months, we don’t have to pay for our loan, meaning we’ve got cash in hand. So that

[00:25:00]償還貸款。在2020年,有自動貸款監控,在接下來的四到六個月,我們無需償還貸款,這意味著我們手頭有現金。以便 

[00:25:10] actually saves a lot of people from defaulting in the loop. So what happened after 2009? Right? So this is actually what

[00:25:10]實際上使很多人免於違約。那麼,2009年之後發生了什麼?實際上是 

[00:25:20] happened. So in terms of COVID, in terms of the financial crisis right, what actually happened is that it takes a lot of other

[00:25:20]發生這些。所以,就新冠肺炎而言,就金融危機而言,實際上發生的事情是 

[00:25:30] dominoes in the market before a property bull run happens. So for capital, right, we take this opportunity COVID-19 to actually buy a lot of properties.

[00:25:30]在房地產牛市發生之前,需要觸發很多骨牌效應。因此,對於資本而言,我們藉新冠肺炎這個機會來買入很多物業。 

[00:25:40] The reason why is because we see in the next 12 to 24 months, we will have a property bull run. Property bull run in Malaysia typically will happen

[00:25:40]原因是因為在接下來的12到24個月內,將出現房地產牛市。馬來西亞的房地產牛市通常會發生 

[00:25:50] after four dominoes fall. And what happens is that the property prices tend to double right, so I’m going to go on to slide

[00:25:50]在四個骨牌效應後。會發生的事情是房地產價格會趨向翻倍,所以我將繼續講下去

[00:26:00] number seven. Slide number seven is what I call the four horsemen.

[00:26:00]第七張。第七張投影是我所說的四名騎士。 

[00:26:06]Darren: [00:26:06] Wait, I’m sorry if we could stop a little bit. For the SRR, [00:26:10] OPR, what do they mean?

Darren:[00:26:06]等一下,對不起,如果我們能停下來一點。什麼是SRR [00:26:10] 和OPR? 

[00:26:12]Nicholas: [00:26:12] The SRR is actually the reserve that the banks will need to have.

[00:26:12]Nicolas:[00:26:12] SRR(Statutory Reserve Requirement)實際上是銀行需要擁有的法定存款準備金率。 

[00:26:20] In 2009 what happened is that they’ve got less of the cash, more subject to external shocks or pressure. While right now we’ve got a better banking system,

[00:26:20]在2009年,發生的事情是他們的現金更少了,更多地受到了外部衝擊或壓力。雖然目前我們有一個更好的銀行系統, 

[00:26:30] we have got a stronger bank right? OPR is our overnight policy rate where that is where our interest rate is benchmarked against. So in 2009, what happens that is actually do 2% in 2020,

[00:26:30]我們擁有更強大的銀行。OPR(overnight policy rate)是我們的隔夜政策利率,並以此作為基準利率。因此,在2009年,發生的情況實際上是2020年的2%, 

[00:26:40] or just for the 2.5 you have to change it. I’ll be changing it to two. We’re

[00:26:40]或僅需更改2.5。我將其更改為2%。我們是 

[00:26:50] actually the lowest since America, since our independence day. This year. Our OPR is the lowest. So in terms of buying property, you have got the lowest

[00:26:50]實際上是自我們獨立日以來,自美國以來的最低水平。今年。我們的OPR最低。因此,就置業而言,你擁有最低的 

[00:27:00] interest meaning your repayment every month is actually much, much lower. Here’s the reason why a lot of people, if they see the opportunity, this is the year that they will buy.

[00:27:00]利息意味著你每月的還款額實際上低得多。這就是為什麼很多人(如果他們看到機會)將在今年置業的原因。 

[00:27:09]Darren: [00:27:09] I see. [00:27:10] So go back to four horsemen, right. That’s interesting. So would you mind elaborating on the four horsemen slide a bit more.

[00:27:09]Darren:[00:27:09]我明白了。[00:27:10]所以,回到四名騎士那裡。那很有意思。因此,你介意詳細介紹一下四名騎士嗎? 

[00:27:17]Nicholas: [00:27:17] So what happens Darren, [00:27:20] if you look at historical data, right time, there’s a property bull run, the property bull run happened in 2010, all the way up to

Nicolas:[00:27:17]所以Darren,是這樣的,[00:27:20]如果你查看歷史數據,時間,有一場房地產牛市,那場房地產牛市發生在2010年,直到 

[00:27:30] 2013. That’s where the prices property prices, double, double, double, you need to queue up to buy property right. Before that happened, there’s actually four triggers or the four horsemen that we call

[00:27:30]2013年。那幾年房地產價格在翻倍,翻倍,翻倍,翻倍,你需要排隊置業。在此之前,我們實際上有四個觸發器或四名騎士 

[00:27:40] that right. The first one is actually OPR cut. OPR cut meaning the interest rate being cut. So the government at that particular time cut the OPR

[00:27:40]第一個實際上是OPR的削減。OPR下調意味著降息。因此,政府在特定時間削減了OPR 

 [00:27:50] rate. Very, very similar to what is currently happening in 2020. Right, so number two, they made it very, very easy to

[00:27:50]非常非常類似於2020年發生的事情。對,所以第二,他們使大家非常非常容易 

 [00:28:00] buy properties. At that particular time in 2009, it was something called a DIBS developer interest bearing scheme, meaning during construction, you don’t have to pay anything,

[00:28:00]購買物業。在2009年的那個時間,這就是所謂的DIBS,這意味著在施工期間,你無需支付任何費用, 

 [00:28:10] you only start paying upon completion of the property, right? In Malaysia, I’ll give you a context in Malaysia, if you buy a property during construction, you need to service your loan, you need to pay a certain amount

[00:28:10]你只在物業完成後才開始付款。在馬來西亞,我會給你一個在馬來西亞的情況,如果你在建設期間購買物業,則需要償還貸款,需要支付一定金額 

[00:28:20] for the interest right? At that particular time the developer pay for your interest, you only pay full amount upon completion. This year, and last

[00:28:20]的利息。在那個的時間,開發商支付你的利息,你只需要在完成時支付全額費用即可。今年和去年,

[00:28:30] year 2018. The government came up with HOC policy, which is called the home ownership campaign right, which is to ease people, especially Malaysians to actually buy property.

[00:28:30] 2018年。政府提出了HOC政策,也就是擁屋計劃,目的是讓人們(尤其是馬來西亞人)實際地購買物業。 

[00:28:40] The third one is the mega infrastructure launch. Every time the government started a mega infrastructure and that in 2009, as well, where all the high rise are being [00:28:50] built. You’ll see this happening, right now we’re actually seeing it the same. You’ve got your LRPs. You’ve got your you’ve got your LRT bill, your MRT too, you’ve got your HSR.

[00:28:40]第三個是大型基礎設施的啟動。每次政府啟動大型基礎設施時,以及在2009年,所有高樓大廈都在[00:28:50]那時建成。你會看到這種情況的發生,現在我們實際上已經看到了同樣的情況,有LRP。有輕軌,地鐵和高鐵。 

[00:29:00] You’ve got your ECRL being built this year, and those are the money that has been poured into the infrastructure. The last one, the last one,

[00:29:00]今年也會興建東海岸銜接鐵道,這些錢已經投入到基礎設施中。最後一個是

 [00:29:10] that is the key catalyst or spot market to a property bull is actually the stock market bull run. So what happens to Malaysians, I’m not sure

[00:29:10]房地產牛市的關鍵催化劑或現貨市場實際上是股市牛市。那會對馬來西亞人有影響,關於香港 

[00:29:20] about Hong Kong, Malaysians tend to gamble more on the stock market, they make a lot of money from the stock market the profit from that they buy property. So, if you look

[00:29:20] 我不確定,因為馬來西亞人傾向於在股市上冒險,他們在股市中賺很多錢,然後把那些利息購入物業。所以,如果你看 

[00:29:30] into right now, if you look at the Malaysian stock market, especially the glyph counters, everybody doubled and tripled. I’ll give you an example, Supermax a glove maker

[00:29:30]現在的情況,如果你看一下馬來西亞的股票市場,尤其是字形計數器,每個人都翻了一倍到三倍。我舉一個例子,知名的手套製造商Supermax 

[00:29:40] fourth biggest in Malaysia right, went from $1.52 all the way up to $15 ringgit, meaning 100,000 invested there,

[00:29:40]是馬來西亞第四大的手套製造商,它的股價從1.52令吉一路攀升至15令吉,這意味著在短短四個月內, 

[00:29:50] in a short period of four months became one hundred thousand invested, it became 1 million. So you’ve seen that it is a crazy stock market bull run

[00:29:50] 就有10萬令吉投資於它,再變成了一百萬。所以你已經看到今年會有瘋狂的牛市發生 。

[00:30:00] happening this year. So when will the property bull run happen? It will happen in next 12 to 24 months.

[00:30:00]那麼何時會有房地產牛市呢?它將在接下來的12到24個月內發生。 

[00:30:08]Darren: [00:30:08] I see. No, I [00:30:10] think Hong Kong has a similar kind of mindset because a lot of people here, like, you know, they play stock because they don’t have enough money yet. And once they get enough money, they go to the real estate market. So the world

[00:30:08]Darren:[00:30:08]我明白了。我[00:30:10]我認為香港也有類似的心態,因為這裡的很多人都喜歡玩股票,因為他們還沒有足夠的錢。一旦他們有足夠的錢,他們就會去房地產市場。所以這個

[00:30:20] trend is very similar. And I think that it’s not only about Hong Kong, you know, Hong Kong is one of the biggest stock markets kind of in the world trading. But this is very similar on that regard. And by the way, what you

[00:30:20]趨勢非常相似。我認為,這不僅與香港有關,香港是世界上最大的股票交易市場之一。但這在這方面非常相似。順便說一句,你 

[00:30:30] have explained to the audience is very useful. It’s something that like, I’m sure, like, even for myself just by reading through your slides, I learned so much from it. So thank you so much on that,

[00:30:30]對聽眾的講解很有用。我敢肯定,即使對於我自己來說,光是看你的投影片,就令我獲益良多。所以非常感謝你。 

[00:30:40] too. So you know, like I said before, right, I talked to Amos and other people that are from Malaysia as a guest, we can go on hours and hours. And I think that is very, very good insight. And I’m sure people will

你知道,我之前也提到,我邀請過來自馬來西亞的Amos和馬來西亞的嘉賓上來,我們一直談下去。而我認為這是非常非常好的見解。而且我相信人們會 

[00:30:50] reach out to you to want to talk more about it. And there’s just only a couple more questions that I have. For example, right, what other tips do you have to summarize everything for the audience to take away

[00:30:50]想與你聯繫,以便再作深入的了解。我只剩下幾個問題。例如,你還有其他哪些貼士來總結所有內容,令觀眾可以從中受益

[00:31:00] from, because I’m sure a lot of us have a lot of questions, a lot of ideas what to do next, if you have anything that you want to capsulate and kind of remind the audience on what to do.

[00:31:00]因為我敢肯定我們很多人都會有很多問題,有很多想法下一步該怎麼做,如果你有什麼想概括的內容,和提醒聽眾可以做些什麼。 

[00:31:12]Nicholas: [00:31:12] [00:31:10] So for your audience, right? If they’re buying property there’s a few things you need to do. Of course there are the five criterias right. You also need to look in the

[00:31:12]Nicolas:[00:31:12] [00:31:10]對你的聽眾來說,對吧?如果他們要置業的話,則需要做一些事情。當然,有那五個標準。你還需要查看 

[00:31:20] affordability of the market. So I’ll bring you all the way until slide 12. So slide

[00:31:20]市場的承受能力。因此,我將直接去到投影片12。 

[00:31:30] 12 is actually about the median household income by state. So I thank you for your question asking. If I’ve got money should I be investing in KL or should I be

[00:31:30] 12實際上是關於各州家庭收入的中位數。因此,感謝你提出的問題。如果我有錢,我應該在吉隆坡投資還是應該 

 [00:31:40] investing in Johor. Same price 1 million ringgit, 1 million yeah. If you look at Kuala Lumpur, right in 2019, their

[00:31:40]投資柔佛州呢?同樣的價格100萬令吉,是100萬。如果你看一下吉隆坡,就在2019年,他們的 

[00:31:50] median household income is actually at $10,000 ringgit, above $10,000 ringgit so to pay for a million ringgit condo for them. It is actually quite reasonable.

[00:31:50]家庭收入中位數實際上是$ 10,000令吉,高於$ 10,000令吉,因此要他們為公寓公支付一百萬令吉。這實際上是很合理的。 

[00:32:00] Achievable. But if you go all the way to down to Johor, then you can actually see that their income level is actually hovering at $6000 ringgit. So, I mean, your viewers and myself and yourself must agree right.

[00:32:00]是可以實現的。但是,如果在柔佛州,那麼你實際上可以看到他們的收入水平實際上徘徊在6000令吉。所以我的意思是,你的觀眾以及我自己和你自己都必須同意

[00:32:10] If you’re earning $6000 ringgit, you cannot pay $5000 ringgit for installment, right, The leftover $1000 you cannot eat. I mean, you have to pay for your food you have to pay for internet and whatnot. Let’s be honest,

[00:32:10]如果你的收入為$ 6000令吉,則無法支付$ 5000令吉的分期付款,對吧,剩下的$1000無法負擔你的支出。我的意思是,你必須應付你的日常開銷。說實話, 

[00:32:20] you cannot survive it. So hence, where I’m coming from is that you need to understand what’s the median

[00:32:20]不然,你無法生存。因此,你需要了解每個州的 

[00:32:30] income of each state. And then to see whether the property that you’re buying, can it be sustained by the local market.

[00:32:30] 平均收入是多少。然後查看你所購買的房產是否可以由當地市場維持。 

[00:32:40] So going back to the fourth part, the fourth criteria, if anything would happen, if you want to move to Singapore, if you want to move to back to Hong Kong, right, can you actually rent it out? So there’s

[00:32:40]回到第四部分,第四標準,如果有任何事情發生,如果你想搬到新加坡,如果你想搬回香港,對,你可以實際租出它嗎?所以有 

[00:32:50] only so many expats who can rent it out. You need to make sure that, you know, if expats fail, can you actually rent it up to the local market, which of course, logically speaking, there’s a bigger

[00:32:50]只有一部分的外國人可以把物業租出去。你需要確保,如果不能租出給外國人,你是否可以將其當地市場在出租,當然,從邏輯上講, 

[00:33:00] pool of market right? So focus on those things and always focus on the five criterias, always focus on these particular household income, and you’d be quite safe. Now

[00:33:00]這裡有更多的市場對吧?因此,專注於這些事情,並且始終專注於那五個標準,始終關注這些特定的家庭收入,你將非常安全。現在 

[00:33:10] the prediction that we’re having right to do to sum it all up – that will be page 10. You will look at interest

[00:33:10]我們對所有內容進行總結在第10頁。你會看到利率

[00:33:20] rate, we are actually having the lowest interest rate right now, as of today, the lowest interest rate for the past since our independence day, right? We’re expecting one more round to be

[00:33:20]實際上我們現在的利率最低,到今天為止,是自獨立日以來的最低利率,對吧?我們希望再進行一輪 

[00:33:30] cut. Anything that you buy, net price, yeah, anything that you buy that is below $600,000 with a 4% rental yield will be the best performer.

[00:33:30]縮減。是的,你所購買的任何物業(淨價格),如果你購買的物業價格低於600,000令吉且租金收益率為4%,都是表現最佳的。 

[00:33:40] So your SBA could be 1 million ringgit, but try to get something with a 40% discount if you could. All properties in Malaysia will be under pressure, always by new.

[00:33:40]因此,你的SBA可能是100萬令吉,但如果可以的話,請嘗試以六折的價格買入。馬來西亞的所有地產都會承受壓力,總是會受到壓力。 

[00:33:50] More infrastructure is coming. So I’ve just given you the four horsemen right, focus on the infrastructure, focus on where the infrastructure is, when is it being completed and you will see the bull run

[00:33:50]更多基礎設施即將到來。所以我講了四名騎士,分別是專注於基礎設施,專注於基礎設施的位置,何時完成,你將看到牛市 

[00:34:00] coming. MRO basically what it says that this page 11 MRO is basically saying that multiple rental options, don’t just focus on the expat tenant. Of course, having the

[00:34:00]的到來。MRO基本上在說的是,第11頁MRO基本上是說有多種租賃選擇,而不僅僅是關注外籍租戶。當然, 

[00:34:10] expat tenant is great, but also focus on the local market as well. That’s where the median income for each state is happening. You’re gonna see a lot of developers under pressure.

[00:34:10]有外籍租戶很棒,但也要關注本地市場。那就是每個州發生收入中位數的地方。您將看到很多開發商面臨壓力。 

[00:34:20] That’s nice for your investors. Identify this kind of projects, make sure that these developers have got the capability to finish

[00:34:20]這對你的投資者來說很好。找到這類項目,確保這些開發商具有完成興建的能力 

[00:34:30] building it and then you’re going to get a good deal. The last one is actually, myself we’ll – we’re going to get a lot of people hating us for sharing all this information, but I guess it from

[00:34:30]然後你會得到一個好的成交。最後一個實際上是我自己,我們會-很多人討厭我們分享這些信息,但是我想 

[00:34:40] that point of views that your viewers as long as they follow, they use the five criteria, they will not lose money.

[00:34:40]只要你的觀眾遵循以下觀點,使用這五個標準,就不會虧本。 

[00:34:47]Darren: [00:34:47] Yeah. Yeah, that’s [00:34:50] great because like, I know that a lot of people in the real estate sector they try really hard to sometimes like please everyone and try not to say too much unless it’s like off the record,

Darren:[00:34:47]是的。是的,這是[00:34:50]很棒,因為我知道,房地產行業的許多人有時會非常努力地嘗試討好所有人,並儘量不要多說,除非是私底下

[00:35:00] but I believe that like, I think it’s time to really democratize and help people more about these things, because otherwise the industry will never improve and progress further, you know?

[00:35:00]但是我相信,現在是時候真正實現民主化並幫助人們更多地了解這些事情了,因為否則,該行業將永遠無法改善並進一步發展。

[00:35:10] So I really appreciate what you’re doing here. I really do. And what’s something that you and your firm have been working on recently? Because right now with COVID-19, I’m

[00:35:10]因此,我非常感謝你在這裡所做的事情。真的。 所以你和你的公司最近在做什麼?因為新冠肺炎的關係,我

[00:35:20] sure you guys are buying more and more properties, like what other things are you working on at the moment?

[00:35:20]肯定你們正在買入越來越多的房地產,你還有在進行什麼其他項目嗎? 

[00:35:25]Nicholas: [00:35:25] We are actually only working on buying properties. To be fair,

[00:35:25]Nicolas:[00:35:25]我們實際上只是在購買房地產。公平地說, 

[00:35:30] right now, the deals are coming in fast, they are good deals, we are always looking for good properties. So long as they meet our grading criteria, we will be buying it.

[00:35:30]現在,有很多交易進來,它們是很好的交易,我們一直在尋找優質的房地產。只要他們符合我們的評分標準,我們就會購買。 

[00:35:40] We are currently just focusing on buying right now to be honest, because if you look at a market rate, the lowest would be us, I don’t think they’re going to go any lower. It

[00:35:40]坦白地說,我們目前正專注於買入物業,因為如果你以市場價格來看,最低的就是我們,我認為它們不會繼續下跌。它 

[00:35:50] can only go up from this year onwards, and this is probably the best time for local, for foreign investors to actually buy something in Malaysia. So for us,

[00:35:50]從今年開始只能上漲,這可能是本地投資者和外國投資者在馬來西亞置業的最佳時機。所以對我們來說 

[00:36:00] we are actively hunting; our predominant focus right now is to buy as much as we can. So we are not focusing on any other things besides buying right

[00:36:00]我們正在積極尋找;我們目前的主要重點是盡可能多的買入物業。因此,除了買入物業以外,我們不專注於其他任何事情 

[00:36:10] now. So thank you to COVID-19 in the sense that you know, it actually allows developers to drop, giving them more pressure and allowing them to drop the

[00:36:10]因此,在某種意義上,我要感謝新冠肺炎,它實際上使開發商下調價格,給他們更大的壓力,並允許他們進一步去

[00:36:20] prices even further. So from my firm, for my clients, they are buying things that are up to 30 to 40%. discount. And for your investors,

[00:36:20]降價。因此,對於我的客戶來說,對我的公司,他們所購買的物業最多有30%到40%。折扣。對於你的投資者 

[00:36:30] right, I’m going to share this we are buying something that is actually in the middle of Mount Keira which is expat hub, you’ve got to Koreans, the Japanese, the

[00:36:30]我要分享的是,我們要購買的物業實際上位於滿家好(Mont Keira)的中間,這是外國人集中地,韓國人,日本人, 

[00:36:40] Americans, the Europeans, the Hong Kong, all of them are staying there and you’re buying something that will actually make you money, at least $500

[00:36:40]美國人,歐洲人,香港人都呆在那裡,而你購買的物業實際上是可以使你賺錢,每月至少有500令吉

[00:36:50] ringgit per month in terms of cash flow. But of course those are only for my investors right.

[00:36:50]的現金流。但是,這些當然只給我的投資者。 

[00:36:55]Darren: [00:36:55] No I get it, I get it. I really think that like we should do more of these

Darren:[00:36:55]我明白了。我真的認為我們應該做更多這樣的事情 

[00:37:00] because there’s so many questions I have, but I will reserve it for next time because like they’re questions for example, right I was thinking about the culture of what’s going on, with the wealth for example, I know a

[00:37:00]因為我有很多問題,但是我會留在下一次才問,因為是像這樣的問題,例如,我在想是關於文化上的問題,例如,財富,我知道 

[00:37:10] lot of Malaysia as a country is getting a lot wealthier, what’s going to happen? What’s your prediction in years now? And then we can reserve that for next time because there’s so many things and obviously like

[00:37:10]馬來西亞作為一個國家,正在變得越來越富裕,將會發生什麼?你對未來幾年來的預測是什麼?然後我們可以留待下一次才回答,因為有很多東西,顯然 

[00:37:20] I’m sure the audience will want to ask you more questions. So like, what are some ways that you suggest the audience reach out to you? Through emails or LinkedIn or is there a way to find you [00:37:30] to talk to you more about this kind of stuff?

[00:37:20]我確定觀眾會想問你更多問題。如此,你建議觀眾通過哪些方式與你聯繫?通過電子郵件或LinkedIn,是否可以找到你[00:37:30]與你更多地談論這種事情? 

[00:37:33]Nicholas: [00:37:33] I think you can send me an email. They can also WhatsApp me. I am faster in WhatsApp. They can also Facebook me. I

[00:37:33]Nicolas:[00:37:33]我想你可以給我發送電子郵件。他們也可以使用WhatsApp。我在WhatsApp中回答更快。他們也可以在臉書上找我。

[00:37:40] will be faster in WhatsApp and Facebook. I will check my emails

[00:37:40]我在WhatsApp和Facebook中會更快地回答。我每天會檢查我的電子郵件一次 

[00:37:50] once a day so do expect delays. But if you want a faster response, you want to understand more about whatever, just WhatsApp me. I’ll pass you my number and also my [00:38:00] email and also my facebook.

[00:37:50]所以要預計會有延遲。但是,如果你想要更快的回應,或是想了解更多,請whatsapp我。我會把我的電話號碼和[00:38:00]電子郵件以及我的facebook給您。 

[00:38:01]Darren: [00:38:01] Yeah, so I’ll have everything in the show notes, and the slide you have to offer and the property grading template as well to make sure everyone knows where they can

[00:38:01]Darren:[00:38:01]是的,所以我會資訊欄中提供這些資訊,以及你提供的投影片和物業分級模板,以確保每個人都知道他們可以在哪裡 

[00:38:10] find them. And I just want to say, because this is like 30 minutes, I don’t think it’s really enough. But thanks so much for your time. And then I’m really looking forward to round two, and then I really

[00:38:10]找到它們。我想說,因為這只有30分鐘,我認為這並不足夠。但是,非常感謝你的寶貴時間。然後我真的很期待下次的見面,然後我真的 

[00:38:20] appreciate the time that you happen to give, and the thoughts that come into preparing everything we have.

[00:38:20]感謝你付出的時間,以及準備的一切。 

[00:38:24]Nicholas: [00:38:24] No problem. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:38:24]Nicolas:[00:38:24]沒問題。謝謝。謝謝你邀請我。 

[00:38:26]Darren: [00:38:26] Yeah, thank you and then talk to you next time then. Thank you.

Darren:[00:38:26]是的,謝謝,然後下次再見。謝謝。 

[00:38:30]Nicholas: [00:38:30] [00:38:30] Alright.

Nicolas:[00:38:30] [00:38:30]好的。 

[00:38:32]Darren: [00:38:32] Good day. Bye.

]Darren:[00:38:32]祝你有個美好的一天。再見 。

[00:38:33]Nicholas: [00:38:33] Bye.

Nicolas:[00:38:33]再見。 

Nicholas: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Darren Wong: Yeah, so to give the audience a bit of a background, we had a show with Amos I think we launched about a couple of weeks ago and it got pretty popular. And then a lot of people told me that they’re actually thinking about Malaysia real estate markets. And then Amos was like, you’re someone that like in the whole market, people know who you are, and you could do a good job. So I’m pretty happy to have you here. And because it’s not only learning about Malaysia market it’s about how to be a better investor. So again, thanks for coming in and it’s gonna be a blast, yeah. So for the audience who may not know who you are, would you mind telling the audience about yourself and the company you work for?

Nicholas: My name is Nicholas How. I’m the head of sales for FAR Capital. So for FAR Capital, what we do is that we are actually the biggest buyers right now in Malaysia. Last year, we transacted approximately around 1.8 billion all the way up until this year. So for the past 18 months we are arguably the biggest private buyer right now in Malaysia. So, why we’re doing this is because number one, we see a lot of investors, foreigners or Malaysians, what they do is they invest without really understanding the fundamentals of our property investment. So from my experience out of 100 properties 97 of them will not make you money, it is only like three of them that will actually make you money. So, our objective, our vision for the company is to actually increase the knowledge of property investment, increase their investors’ knowledge so that they can actually make money. So as an investor, and the only thing that you want to do is make money, right, so we want to, we want to mitigate that, the people that are losing money. That’s the main objective.

Darren: I see. Yeah, I think when we had a call, I think a month ago, and the call was actually really good because it obviously tells how much you care about this. And there’s one thing you measure right away it’s price, price, price, not location, location, location. Would you mind elaborating that to the audience? Because I think when you shared some insight about the Malaysia market and how things are, I was kind of shocked, I never heard of that before. So would you mind elaborating that further?

Nicholas: Alright, so I think everyone heard about this, the mentra calling location, location, location. I think it went all the way until Hong Kong. It has been prevalent in Malaysia. But from research or from the deepest point of view, when you look at it right, location actually doesn’t play that important of a role. I’ll give you an example. KLCC, majority of the Hong Kong viewers, your Hong Kong viewers would know where KLCC is right? They’ve got the best location in terms of location wise, they’re the best. You’ve got your LRT station, you’ve got your shopping, one of the best shopping malls, you’ve got Grade A offices, you’ve got hotels, so in terms of location, there’s no place primer compared to KLCC. So that is like the financial center of KL. Yeah, or the oil and gas center of KL, right. But if you invested in KLCC 12 years ago, right versus a suburban area called Puchong. There’s a suburban area in Puchong, if you invested 12 years ago, in KLCC, you would not have made any money. In fact, you might have lost money compared to you investing in Puchong, the suburban area, you would have easily doubled what you have, right? So for me personally, it is never about location. It is always about the price that you bought into. So it could be one of the not so pride area like Puchong, but if you have bought it cheap enough, over the long run, the property price has got a higher tendency to increase or double versus paying a premium price for a premium location and it would just be stagnant. So for me, for the viewers, for everyone else that is listening location, location location is important, but not as important as understanding the price that you’re paying. Not as important as understanding the median price that you’re paying. So from their point of view, so just to give a context to your viewers right, when they are coming to Malaysia, the first place that they’re looking at will always be KLCC. So that is how the agents has framed them. That’s how the real estate agency in Malaysia has brought them over. But what they do not understand is that in the KLCC, median price, anything you pick above 1500 ringgit, you will not make money. So you understand median price, first and foremost, you understand the median of that area, and then you understand whether you’re buying below median, or above median, anything that you buy below median, you have got a higher chance of making money. And if you’re buying above median, that’s where you have a higher chance of losing money.

Darren Wong: So you know, that’s something that’s interesting, because that’s the point you mentioned before over the call. And I was kind of shocked. I never thought that way. So in that regard what are some things that the audience can do to mitigate that because it sounds like a very gray area, like there are assets that you have to buy, certain price points, but then that is a gray area because not many people can afford it, for example, in this case, right, how would we mitigate it?

Nicholas: So how we mitigate it is that I’m going to be sharing my screen if you don’t mind.

Darren Wong: Sure go ahead, yeah.

Nicholas: There are actually a few criterias for your investors or for your viewers alright. So there are actually a few criterias that you need to be aware of. I’m going to share with you this – actually quite a simple investment criteria. There’s only five. So let me share my screen…I can’t share screen. 

Darren Wong :Okay so what I can do is you can tell me which slide and then I can put that on our videos. 

Nicholas: Alright so this is actually slide number five, alright? So slide number five, you can actually see there’s a five investment criteria for your particular viewers. So what happens is this number one, if you’re looking at buying into Malaysia, the first thing you need to look into is the international expat community. So as a Hong Kong buyer, the first thing you need to understand is that you must look into the expat community. That’s where the Hong Kong people are. That’s where they spend their days there. That’s where they buy their property, that’s where they send their kids to school. That’s where they buy their groceries. You need to have this kind of support system in place. First things first, you need to get that support system in place for you to have a very meaningful stay in Malaysia, right? There’s no point for you buying in a place even though the building might be great, but you’ve got no support system. So always focus on the international expat community. These people have been in Malaysia for the past 10-15 years. They know for a fact that whether the property that they bought is actually a good one or a bad one, right. Number two, always focus on the international schools. Now I’m gonna take a step into KLCC right. There’s a reason why the rich people in Malaysia, right, or the rich people who are the experts don’t particularly choose KLCC, if they’ve got a family it’s because the lack of international schools in KLCC, right? So if you are single, the likelihood of you choosing KLCC is quite high, because, you know, you’d want to stay there, there’s got a nightlife, that et cetera, et cetera. But if you’ve got a family, you’ve got a wife, two kids and a dog, right? You don’t want to choose KLCC, because there’s a lack of international schools, or you need to drive two hours, to and for approximately, two hours to just to send your kids to school and go back to your office, right? So always focus on international schools, you need to have that if you’re looking to stay here longer. The third one is actually the commercial vibrancy, and also the first class infrastructure. You don’t want to stay in a place where there’s not even a proper mall, right? So you’ve got to always look for something with a proper mall, with a proper grocer that you can do your shopping in and your first class infrastructure meaning your highways, alright. So all these things contribute to a better living standard, if you’re planning to stay here, or you’re planning to invest here, because you see, once you buy into Malaysia, the dream or the bargain is to actually rent it out to expats. Right? The expats will always look into these criterias first and foremost, so the chances of you getting an expat tenant is much higher if you follow the criteria, right? So number four, you always have a plan B, right? So I know it’s gonna be very, very hard for your viewers to identify the median price because it takes local knowledge of local capabilities to identify the median price of the area, and then use the property to benchmark against the median price of the area. So you need the local knowledge, right? So it’s actually quite rather simple if it’s for your own viewers. You always have a plan B. Now, what Plan B means is this. A lot of people are agents in the approach you, they’ll say hey, you’re buying for own stay so it doesn’t matter. As long as you like it, buy, you can afford, buy. that is not a good idea or a good strategy. The reason why is because what if you want to move back to Hong Kong after 5 to 10 years? What if you want to move back? Right? What if you want to move to Singapore? Right? People need change, people want change, right? So having a plan B makes sure that you number one, first and foremost, you don’t lose money, right? So always look for properties that will give you a 4% rental yield. So now, why do I say that is that if you look at the median price of a median price of KLCC, and you take any properties in KLCC, take the rental, the average rental on that area, divided up by your purchase price, you can actually see you can roughly know whether you’re hitting the 4% or not. So always focus on the properties that will give you the 4% and if you can hit the 4% rental you’re relatively safe, you’re at least on median, right? So number five, always remember never pay foreigner price. Now this is an insight to your viewers. This is an insight to your investors that a lot of people dare not say out loud. I’m gonna make a lot of enemies right here to say this but I will say it out. A lot of times these projects that are brought over to Hong Kong are all the “leftover” – meaning we cannot sell, Malaysians don’t want to buy; I’ve exhausted every opportunity, every avenue to sell to Malaysians, I cannot sell. Now I bring it to Hong Kong hopefully, willingly taking in people who are most likely getting suckered into this. So they always have a foreigner price that they sell it to Hong Kong. The reason why is because even with the Malaysian price this price does not make sense to Malaysians. Even the Malaysians noble rich, Malaysians are rich. If you look at the Mount Kiera price versus the KLCC price, yeah actually more or less the same. Look at ttdi Obasanjo more or less the same, but the Malaysians will buy Mount Keira, the Malaysians will buy Bangsa, will buy ttdi and they will not buy overpriced, hyped up stuff, right or predominately KLCC. So those are the things that they are actually pushing out to foreigners, the leftovers that nobody wants. So focus on these five criterias you will most likely never make the wrong purchase focus on these five areas. That’s my advice to your buyers.

Darren Wong: Right that’s really good because there’s a couple of things you mentioned it’s something I think I told you before I used to be on the buy side. And then we always understood that if some deals are pushing foreigners from across the board, like across the ocean or something, there’s a really big foreigner price and it’s something that I hope that our product can bridge and the same that you can find direct channel, find direct expert in the location instead of paying a premium because there’s no point and then that 1% or 2% means a lot when it comes to real estate investing. So go back a little bit and obviously by the way, that was really good insight because it’s somebody that not only applies to Malaysia, it’s applied to many different cities it’s that, for example, you said before the tenant might be different maybe just because you’re single or like me, or living in the city, but if you think about putting yourself in the shoes on someone who’s a family, they might be something else. So I want to go back a little bit on the fourth point, right? When you say 4% rent, does that mean the gross or net?

Nicholas: It could be gross, right? To get 4% rental you are looking across, I’m not very familiar with the interest rate in Hong Kong. But in Malaysia right now, it’s actually less than 3%. The effective rate is 3.5, 3.4. You’re getting a 4% basically means that you’re covering everything that you have. So taking 4% is actually not a bad deal, especially if you’re a foreigner buying something here, right? So for me hitting that 4% is good enough for the foreigners. And just to add on to your point right saying that looking at agents or looking at, you know, experts or whatnot, right? My suggestion to your viewers, don’t believe any expert, any agent, anyone, just follow the five criteria, you can make your own decision really. So just like that, yeah, you have just broken the code of investing in Malaysia alright. So you don’t have to believe me, you don’t have to believe in whoever so long as you follow this criteria and say, “Hey, do I have an expat community here? Hey, do I have an international school here? Hey, do I have a you know, first class infrastructure, my commercial vibrancy is there? Can I get a 4% complete for me? Can I get a 4% and actually, am I paying a foreigner price here? What is everybody paying around here?” With these five criteria you will never go wrong with investing in property as a foreigner. 

Darren Wong: I see. Because I’m sure you’re aware, this show, this whole series is for foreigners to learn about the different markets and in this case, it’s the Malaysia properties right. So I have a two part question because a lot of people start rely on real estate platforms, right and then I know that in Malaysia there’s you know, Iproperty, Property Guru, Brickz, like already useful and what is something that people can rely on and at the same time what are somethings that they are not good at, you know you need that five criteria before to compensate. And another question is with these platforms or other ways, what are some ways that you suggest them to assess and search for the right properties?

Nicholas: Okay, so I’m gonna say the first tackle, the first question first, what’s the pros and cons right? I think each and every platform has got their own strengths. Use Brickz. Personally, I use Brickz, I use Brickz to identify the products that are transacted prices. Brickz, always has the transacted prices right. I use Brickz and then I go over to  Iproperty or PropertyGuru to actually double check on the listing price. So the reason why is because of this, there’s also practice in Malaysia, again, I’m gonna be making a lot of enemies here alright. Listing price is 1 million ringgit, meaning I’m asking from you Darren, I’m selling my property to you at 1 million ringgit. When I go over to Brickz and I look at the transacted price right, it becomes 2 million ringgit. So it’s illogical, right? I’m telling you, “Hey Darren, you want to buy my property a million ringgit?”, then you tell me, “No, I want to buy it for 2 million.” It doesn’t make sense, right. But this is what’s happening in Malaysia in some part of Malaysia, some part of games on peninsula some part of the projects right? Due to the fact that they want to mark up the transaction price, it’s a fake transaction. So they use this transaction to show to investors and say look, I’ve got a transaction price of 2 million, but in actual fact, the actual asking price is only a million ringgit. So for me, to your viewers what I would suggest is to use Brickz to identify the transaction price, once you identify which one then go over to Iproperty or PropertyGuru to identify those particular projects, give those agents the call to check, double check and triple check the numbers. Use that one. That’s to buy properties right. As for rental in itself in Iproperty and PropertyGuru, there’s a lot of rental being asked. So the rental let’s say for example is 3000. ringgit right? Transacted rental might be a bit lower, technically, from my experience, majority of them are a bit lower, call them to ask, not as, not as the renter, but as an owner, call the agents to ask them, “Hey, I’m an owner of this property. Can you tell me how much realistically can you rent it out?” The agents will tell you the truth, “Oh actually, you can only rent it out for $2500.” But I’ll put $3000 just in case they negotiate then we’ll bring it down. So use those platforms wisely. Use those platforms to identify the prices, the actual prices, I’m teaching you the insight trick of how to use it, and use it wisely. That’s how the second question apologies I actually missed the second question. 

Darren: Oh so I think you mentioned before, what suggestions do you have for the audience to assess and search for the right properties? 

Nicholas: Alright, look at again, go back to the five criteria. Once you identify the five criteria, you identify the area. Search via Property Guru or Iproperty or anyway search for those properties and identify those. For me, my suggestion to your viewers is use those search engines, you will find any and all type of properties, okay. It’s just that the caveat to it is that how do you then identify if this property is good or bad? So that’s the only caveat. So for me, I use Property Guru and Iproperty to search for properties. It is just that from there onwards, how do I then identify whether this one is good? Please bear in mind or remember the first rule, hard and first rule is that 97% of the properties in Malaysia won’t make money. So you need to, your audience needs to use the five criteria again to assess or identify that 3% of the properties.

Darren Wong: I see. So there’s something that you mentioned before it’s called the property grading template from you. Would you mind telling the audience like how they use it because I think you’re generous enough to tell us that, hey, there’s a place where you can download a link in the show notes and everything. Like Would you mind elaborating on what this is for and then how people can use it? 

Nicholas: Right. So I’m going to use this grading system that we at FAR Capital has used this grading system. Right. You have a grade A, B, C, D, and E. Right? 97% of them, the properties like the 97% will be grade C, D, and grade E. Now what does that mean?Grade E, I’m going to go for grade E, grade E is where you actually lose more than $100,000. If you purchase a property today, when you want to sell it five years later, five years later down the road. So you will be losing more than $100,000. So that’s one. Number two, in terms of cash flow, negative will be more than $600 all the way to $2000 ringgit. Every month, you’re losing money up until $2000 a year. And if you sell, you lose more than $100,000 ringgit. So there’s a huge loss, right? So that’s grade E. So there’s also a grade D. Where you’ve got no profit, even if you sell or you lost $50,000 ringgit when you sell. Negative every month up until $500 ringgit, so that’s grade D, right. Grade C is that you don’t lose, you don’t win when you sell. Your cash flow is break even every month, meaning your rental is just enough to cover in installments, plus your maintenance fee. So that’s grade C, 97% of the properties in Malaysia will fall into grade C, grade D and grade E. So what we are looking for in FAR capital there’s only grade A and grade B and which I hope from your audience’s as well they’re going to be using this template to look for properties as well. So grade B is where upon completion when you sell it, there’s minimum 10% upside. Cash flow is positive cash flow by $100 to $200.All right, grade a is where upon exit the property, when you sell the property, you’re making 20%. While cash flow will be positive more than $300 ringgit. So, we are focusing on Grade A and Grade B only. So, how do you then access capital appreciation and cash flow right? Again, you go back to the original template, the criteria that we have, the five criteria so as an foreign investor, there’s a lot of properties that you can’t be buying. Anything that is below 1 million ringgit in Kuala Lumpur you can’t buy; anything below 2 million ringgit in Salalah, you can’t buy. So you have to buy above 2 million you have to buy above a million. So you’re even more limited in terms of property that you’re purchasing. Understand this grading. Use this grading, and then you use those criteria. If you use those criteria, you’re most likely to hit either a Grade B or C. Will you be able to hit a grade A? The answer is yes, but you’re looking like a diamond in the rough. The whole of KL is hard. Mind you, I can only think of one project in the past two to years. Only one project that is suitable for foreign investors. 

Darren Wong  

Wow, that’s very, very crazy then. Wow. Wow, that’s a that’s a very, very crazy, then. You know, it’s very hard to find one but I’m sure if someone like you has the groundwork, has the potential, has all the knowledge and everything they can get that kind of opportunities because it’s hard for us I mean, like if today for example, if I’m not from Hong Kong, where would I know where to invest? And so same as the logic too so it’s often someone on the ground would be a lot easier. 

Nicholas: Let me add on a bit. Even for Malaysians as well, a lot of Malaysians will be investing in the wrong projects. I know for one project that when they started selling they were selling it for $800 to $900,000 ringgit landed property right. And everybody’s net gave up on the first day, the first month, first launch, everything sold out the bought it for $800,000 ringgit. Upon completion I believe there was two to three years ago if I remember correctly, it became a grade E, negative every month was $2500 to $3000 ringgit. When they sell now they are looking at $200,000 easily $200,000 to $300,000 loss. So, is that a good investment? The answer is I would say the answer is no in terms of my criteria. So what happened is that they actually went against everything the criteria stand for. Is there commercial vibrancy. The answer is no. Is there actually international schools? No. Is there expat community? No. So a lot of times Malaysians tend to buy properties thinking that they are investors but once they put into the grading system, once they put it into the criteria it becomes totally very, very clear to the investor that they will lose money. But there’s a caveat to it, the criteria for local investors and criteria for foreign investors will be different. 

Darren Wong: I see. Okay. Well, I mean, the local one I’m sure we can do a part two in the future if there’s so many gems, there’s so many questions that we’re not even halfway yet. So, obviously on behalf of the audience, thanks so much for teaching us how to do it because it means a lot and then so you know, like obviously, right now, the COVID-19 you know, like the whole world has had impact from. So, I just want to know, right, with COVID-19 at this moment in time, where do you think we are in the cycle of the real estate market and then what kind of area and type of investments should oversea investors consider more?

Nicholas: Okay. You will have to go over to slide number four. Okay. So at slide number four, you can actually see the recession in 2009. And what is happening in 2020. So I’m bragging. The reason why I’m bragging is because Malaysia navigated COVID-19 perfectly. I say that because our government did a fantastic job containing COVID-19. They did a fantastic job in the stimulus package so that our economy, even though it’s going through a recession, we will come back up faster, we will come back up stronger. If you look at number one, right, the statue reserved for the banks, we need the cash to be saved right is at 1% while in 2020, we have more cash, right? OBR at that particular time he said 2% are right now he said at this but this one was done quite some time was a 2.5%. We have actually reduced the rate even further, right. In 2009. Over 30 billion stimulus was actually announced. Well, this year due to COVID-19, we announced over 250 billion stimulus packages. In 2009 that was during the financial crisis, right? There’s no moratorium, so everybody still has to pay their loan.  In 2020, there’s automatic load monitoring, which for the next four for six months, we don’t have to pay for our loan, meaning we’ve got cash in hand. So that actually saves a lot of people from defaulting in the loop. So what happened after 2009? Right? So this is actually what happened. So in terms of COVID, in terms of the financial crisis right, what actually happened is that it takes a lot of other dominoes in the market before a property bull run happens. So for capital, right, we take this opportunity COVID-19 to actually buy a lot of properties. The reason why is because we see in the next 12 to 24 months, we will have a property bull run. Property bull run in Malaysia typically will happen after four dominoes fall. And what happens is that the property prices tend to double right, so I’m going to go on to slide number seven. Slide number seven is what I call the four horsemen.

Darren: Wait, I’m sorry if we could stop a little bit. For the SRR, OPR, what do they mean?

Nicholas: The SRR is actually the reserve that the banks will need to have. In 2009 what happened is that they’ve got less of the cash, more subject to external shocks or pressure. While right now we’ve got a better banking system, we have got a stronger bank right? OPR is our overnight policy rate where that is where our interest rate is benchmarked against. So in 2009, what happens that is actually do 2% in 2020, or just for the 2.5 you have to change it. I’ll be changing it to two. We’re actually the lowest since America, since our independence day. This year. Our OPR is the lowest. So in terms of buying property, you have got the lowest interest meaning your repayment every month is actually much, much lower. Here’s the reason why a lot of people, if they see the opportunity, this is the year that they will buy.

Darren: I see. So go back to four horsemen, right. That’s interesting. So would you mind elaborating on the four horsemen slide a bit more.

Nicholas: So what happens Darren, if you look at historical data, right time, there’s a property bull run, the property bull run happened in 2010, all the way up to 2013. That’s where the prices property prices, double, double, double, you need to queue up to buy property right. Before that happened, there’s actually four triggers or the four horsemen that we call that right. The first one is actually OPR cut. OPR cut meaning the interest rate being cut. So the government at that particular time cut the OPR rate. Very, very similar to what is currently happening in 2020. Right, so number two, they made it very, very easy to buy properties. At that particular time in 2009, it was something called a DIBS developer interest bearing scheme, meaning during construction, you don’t have to pay anything, you only start paying upon completion of the property, right? In Malaysia, I’ll  give you a context in Malaysia, if you buy a property during construction, you need to service your loan, you need to pay a certain amount for the interest right? At that particular time the developer pay for your interest, you only pay full amount upon completion. This year, and last year 2018. The government came up with HOC policy, which is called the home ownership campaign right, which is to ease people, especially Malaysians to actually buy property. The third one is the mega infrastructure launch. Every time the government started a mega infrastructure and that in 2009, as well, where all the high rise are being built. You’ll see this happening, right now we’re actually  seeing it the same. You’ve got your LRPs. You’ve got your you’ve got your LRT bill, your MRT too, you’ve got your HSR. You’ve got your ECRL being built this year, and those are the money that has been poured into the infrastructure. The last one, the last one, that is the key catalyst or spot market to a property bull is actually the stock market bull run. So what happens to Malaysians, I’m not sure about Hong Kong, Malaysians tend to gamble more on the stock market, they make a lot of money from the stock market the profit from that they buy property. So, if you look into right now, if you look at the Malaysian stock market, especially the glyph counters, everybody doubled and tripled. I’ll give you an example, Supermax a glove maker fourth biggest in Malaysia right, went from $1.52 all the way up to $15 ringgit, meaning 100,000 invested there, in a short period of four months became one hundred thousand invested, it became 1 million. So you’ve seen that it is a crazy stock market bull run happening this year. So when will the property bull run happen? It will happen in next 12 to 24 months. 

Darren: I see. No, I think Hong Kong has a similar kind of mindset because a lot of people here, like, you know, they play stock because they don’t have enough money yet. And once they get enough money, they go to the real estate market. So the trend is very similar. And I think that it’s not only about Hong Kong, you know, Hong Kong is one of the biggest stock markets kind of in the world trading. But this is very similar on that regard. And by the way, what you have explained to the audience is very useful. It’s something that like, I’m sure, like, even for myself just by reading through your slides, I learned so much from it. So thank you so much on that, too. So you know, like I said before, right, I talked to Amos and other people that are from Malaysia as a guest, we can go on hours and hours. And I think that is very, very good insight. And I’m sure people will reach out to you to want to talk more about it. And there’s just only a couple more questions that I have. For example, right, what other tips do you have to summarize everything for the audience to take away from, because I’m sure a lot of us have a lot of questions, a lot of ideas what to do next, if you have anything that you want to capsulate and kind of remind the audience on what to do.

Nicholas: So for your audience, right? If they’re buying property there’s a few things you need to do. Of course there are the five criterias right. You also need to look in the affordability of the market. So I’ll bring you all the way until slide 12. So slide 12 is actually about the median household income by state. So I thank you for your question asking. If I’ve got money should I be investing in KL or should I be investing in Johor. Same price 1 million ringgit, 1 million yeah. If you look at Kuala Lumpur, right in 2019, their median household income is actually at $10,000 ringgit, above $10,000 ringgit so to pay for a million ringgit condo for them. It is actually quite reasonable. Achievable. But if you go all the way to down to Johor, then you can actually see that their income level is actually hovering at $6000 ringgit. So I mean, your viewers and myself and yourself must agree right. If you’re earning $6000 ringgit, you cannot pay $5000 ringgit for installment, right, The leftover $1000 you cannot eat. I mean, you have to pay for your food you have to pay for internet and whatnot. Let’s be honest, you cannot survive it. So hence, where I’m coming from is that you need to understand what’s the median income of each state. And then to see whether the property that you’re buying, can it be sustained by the local market. So going back to the fourth part, the fourth criteria, if anything would happen, if you want to move to Singapore, if you want to move to back to Hong Kong, right, can you actually rent it out? So there’s only so many expats who can rent it out. You need to make sure that, you know, if expats fail, can you actually rent it up to the local market, which of course, logically speaking, there’s a bigger pool of market right? So focus on those things and always focus on the five criterias, always focus on these particular household income, and you’d be quite safe. Now the prediction that we’re having right to do to sum it all up – that will be page 10. You will look at interest rate, we are actually having the lowest interest rate right now, as of today, the lowest interest rate for the past since our independence day, right? We’re expecting one more round to be cut. Anything that you buy, net price, yeah, anything that you buy that is below $600,000 with a 4% rental yield will be the best performer. So your SBA could be 1 million ringgit, but try to get something with a 40% discount if you could. All properties in Malaysia will be under pressure, always by new. More infrastructure is coming. So I’ve just given you the four horsemen right, focus on the infrastructure, focus on where the infrastructure is, when is it being completed and you will see the bull run coming. MRO basically what it says that this page 11 MRO is basically saying that multiple rental options, don’t just focus on the expat tenant. Of course, having the expat tenant is great, but also focus on the local market as well. That’s where the median income for each state is happening. You’re gonna see a lot of developers under pressure. That’s nice for your investors. Identify this kind of projects, make sure that these developers have got the capability to finish building it and then you’re going to get a good deal. The last one is actually, myself we’ll – we’re going to get a lot of people hating us for sharing all this information, but I guess it from that point of views that your viewers as long as they follow, they use the five criteria, they will not lose money.

Darren: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great because like, I know that a lot of people in the real estate sector they try really hard to sometimes like please everyone and try not to say too much unless it’s like off the record, but I believe that like, I think it’s time to really democratize and help people more about these things, because otherwise the industry will never improve and progress further, you know? So I really appreciate what you’re doing here. I really do. And what’s something that you and your firm have been working on recently? Because right now with COVID-19, I’m sure you guys are buying more and more properties, like what other things are you working on at the moment?

Nicholas: We are actually only working on buying properties. To be fair, right now, the deals are coming in fast, they are good deals, we are always looking for good properties. So long as they meet our grading criteria, we will be buying it. We are currently just focusing on buying right now to be honest, because if you look at a market rate, the lowest would be us, I don’t think they’re going to go any lower. It can only go up from this year onwards, and this is probably the best time for local, for foreign investors to actually buy something in Malaysia. So for us, we are actively hunting; our predominant focus right now is to buy as much as we can. So we are not focusing on any other things besides buying right now. So thank you to COVID-19 in the sense that you know, it actually allows developers to drop, giving them more pressure and allowing them to drop the prices even further. So from my firm, for my clients, they are buying things that are up to 30 to 40%. discount. And for your investors, right, I’m going to share this we are buying something that is actually in the middle of Mount Keira which is expat hub, you’ve got to Koreans, the Japanese, the Americans, the Europeans, the Hong Kong, all of them are staying there and you’re buying something that will actually make you money, at least $500 ringgit per month in terms of cash flow. But of course those are only for my investors right.

Darren: No I get it, I get it. I really think that like we should do more of these because there’s so many questions I have, but I will reserve it for next time because like they’re questions for example, right I was thinking about the culture of what’s going on, with the wealth for example, I know a lot of Malaysia as a country is getting a lot wealthier, what’s going to happen? What’s your prediction in years now? And then we can reserve that for next time because there’s so many things and obviously like I’m sure the audience will want to ask you more questions. So like, what are some ways that you suggest the audience reach out to you?  Through emails or LinkedIn or is there a way to find you to talk to you more about this kind of stuff?

Nicholas: I think you can send me an email. They can also WhatsApp me. I am faster in WhatsApp. They can also Facebook me. I will be faster in WhatsApp and Facebook. I will check my emails once a day so do expect delays. But if you want a faster response, you want to understand more about whatever, just WhatsApp me. I’ll pass you my number and also my email and also my facebook.

Darren: Yeah, so I’ll have everything in the show notes, and the slide you have to offer and the property grading template as well to make sure everyone knows where they can find them. And I just want to say, because this is like 30 minutes, I don’t think it’s really enough. But thanks so much for your time. And then I’m really looking forward to round two, and then I really appreciate the time that you happen to give, and the thoughts that come into preparing everything we have.

Nicholas: No problem. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Darren: Yeah, thank you and then talk to you next time then. Thank you.

Nicholas: Alright. 

Darren: Good day. Bye.

Nicholas: Bye.


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Denzity Insights Transcript: Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker


Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker

Connect with Tom:

Website: https://www2.colliers.com/en-hk/experts/tom-parker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-parker-mrics-924407a5/

Email: tom.parker@colliers.com

The surveyor plays an essential role, but a lot of real estate investors do not fully understand their work. Today, we have Tom to tell us more about it.

Tom is a Chartered Surveyor at Colliers International Hong Kong. He works within the Valuation and Advisory Services department where he is responsible for providing property valuation and consultancy advice to institutional and private investors across Asia. 

  • What are the key roles of a surveyor?
  • What are the different types of surveyors?
  • How do surveyors impact an investment?
  • Why is it necessary to engage with one?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Darren: Hey, Tom.

Tom: Hey, Darren, how’s it going?

Darren: It’s good. Good. Thanks for coming in, because I think I met you, I think last year, close to last year. And there were happy hour drinks with a bunch of people in our industry. And last month, again, I met you with my friend Gary. And it’s great to talk about, you know, our work. And something that I really want to know as a surveyor, because to give you my background before I used to work in real estate funds so the only time that I worked with a surveyor is for Appraisal. But then obviously for developments, for other works that tend to be more and given different surveyors. So this episode is explored more on that kind of subject. And so thanks for coming in and I hope this is a blast for all of us.

Tom: Brilliant, thank you for having me and yeah looking forward to it.

Darren: Yeah, well, for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them your background and a bit about yourself?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So, hey, everyone. My name’s Tom Parker. I’m a manager in the Federation Advisory Services at Colliers in Hong Kong. I’ve been working in Hong Kong for close to two years now. Previously, I was working in the United Kingdom, where I began work in 2011. So I’m a chartered surveyor. So that means I’m a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and I’m an RICS registered buyer as well. So most of my work essentially involves carrying out evaluation and advisory projects across Asia. So not just limited to Hong Kong, I still do some work in the United Kingdom as well. So it’s a fairly global remit. But essentially the main role I have is helping clients make investment decisions, helping them manage their portfolio, effectively, making sure they’re getting the right advice to make these decisions.

Darren: I see well so for the audience and myself who are not familiar with surveyors and appraisals, would you mind telling the audience a broad intro of the concept and what they do?

Tom: Sure. So essentially, appraisal is a function of a surveyor. So you can have surveyors for various different roles. There are surveyors who appraise arts and antiquities, there are surveyors who will measure land surveyors who be involved in the construction of projects. They’ll look at building defects, they’ll estimate building costs, what building materials are required. But most surveys generally, if you hear the term general practice surveyor, they’re typically property surveyors and normally commercial surveyors as well. So one of our roles is appraisal. And then alongside that, we’ll also do landlord and tenant work, we’ll do agency work as well. So we perform the full function. Appraisal is essentially giving a value for property or building at a certain point in time. So that’s one of the many roles we can fulfill.

Darren: So, yeah, I’m like living under a rock so there are a lot of questions I have regarding this subject. So before anything, right would you mind because just now you mentioned that there’s commercial surveyors, there’s a residential surveyor, what other types are there? And then what are the types that a new real estate investor tends to work with?

Tom: Okay, so the easiest thing to do is to split into three different pathways. So there’s property surveyors. There are land surveyors. And then there are art and antiquity surveyors. So the art and antiquities is quite a small arm. It’s a fairly niche part of surveying. And they’ll essentially look at the fine art, give values for fine art. They’ll appraise the additional value if it’s fine art at all, for instance, one example could be, I’m from southwest England, you may have heard of the graffiti artist Banksy.

Darren: Yeah.

Tom: Properties that have a Banksy on them, which a few do in Bristol, that can have a major impact on the value of that property. So we’ve seen vast differences between properties that have the Banksy on and the one next to it doesn’t. So that’s one side of things. Then the land surveyors, they will typically they’re the people you often see out on the street. They’ve got the tripods. They’ve got the cameras. They’re looking at distances. They’re looking at different heights of land. That’s how surveyors originally came about so that was that. A primary role, hence the term surveyors, it was surveying land, say, maps that you see produce. Where you see the contour lines. Where you see the heights of mountains. That was work originally produced by surveyors. That, too, is still quite a – it’s become much more of a niche part of surveying. So typically when someone says I’m a surveyor, I’m a chartered surveyor, they’ll be talking about property surveying and then we can split that into commercial, which is four sites. I generally look at commercial buildings, that’s offices, shops, industrial properties could be things like hospitals, schools as well. Then there will be residential space and then you’ll also have real surveyors as well. You don’t see them as often in Hong Kong. Fairly common in the UK and they will look predominately at farmland. They will work on the sale of large tracts of land. They’ll also look at alternative energy projects as well. Power stations that sort of work. And then there’s building in quantity surveyors as well. So a building surveyor is someone who you would call if you’re looking to buy a building, but you want to know, does this property have any defects? If I buy it today, how much money am I likely to be spending over the next five to ten years? I’m keeping this property up to standards. And then there’s quantity surveyors as well. And they generally work with long construction projects. And their job is to say, okay, to complete this project, you will need X number of bricks, certain amount of time. So they’ll work alongside the costing of a project to make sure all the materials are delivered on time. And you know exactly how much it’s going to cost. Now generally the main thing is commercial space.

Darren: Obviously, because in real estate surveying obviously has a very important role, which I’ll go into detail later on. And then just I think a lot of people, when they think about surveying, it works closely with conveyancing. Would you mind explaining it as well on the conveyancing as surveryors role in the process?

Tom: You see, conveying is essentially buying and selling assets. So a surveyor, you don’t need to have a surveyor to work with you to buy or sell land, but I would say it would be highly recommended. And there’s a number of reasons why. So if you bring a surveyor in when you’re looking to buy or sell a piece of land in the first instance, their role will be purely advisory. So you could say, look, I’m interested in disposing of this property. Can you come in and have a look at it? And a surveyor can come in and the first and they can do is give you an appraised of the value of the property. So at that stage, you know, straightaway, “Okay, my building is worth X million Hong Kong dollars.” So you’ve got a good idea of what you should be to sell it for in the market so you can have a fair degree of confidence when you do get an offer as to whether that represents market value or not. Another role for them may be to have them work with you to look at whether a dispose of this is in your best interests at that time. So you may say, okay, we’re looking to dispose this property in the next six months, but the surveyor might come on board and say, well, actually, have you considered this? And that could be a multitude of reasons why selling the property at that particular time isn’t in their best interests. So the surveyor should be able to work with them to help them come up with a much more fought out and structured disposal program. Then it comes onto the technical side of things. So a lot of the work that we still do is agency based. So we would represent the particular seller to help them find a buyer for the property. And that would involve not just finding the buyer, but also ensuring the terms upon which the sale is agreed, “Are they best suited to the seller and the best terms that they can get?” So that helps them know that they’re getting – so they’ll be getting their advice all the way through the process. Then when it comes onto the actual legal side of the conveyancing, the surveyor will work with their client alongside the solicitors to make sure that the client is getting real estate specific advice. So although a lot of solicitors are most solicitors will have a fair degree of knowledge in real estate when it comes down to some of the more technical aspects of real estate, it still pays to have a surveyor there in your corner to help you understand what it might mean for you if you agree to a certain term, what a certain clause may mean to make sure you’re fully clued up for about the process. And I think they can add the value that perhaps the solicitor can’t do in that instance.

Darren: I see. Because, like, it seems like a very technical work when I listen to it and everything it seems like it requires a lot of studying, a lot of experience, a lot of insights that a lot of people in the real estate industry might not even know. So what do you need to become a surveyor and what kind of license do you need to be one?

Tom: Again, this depends on what sort of survey you want to be and which professional background, which professional body you want to be a member of. So typically the term surveyor sits alongside the term charter surveyor. So if someone says to you, I’m a chartered surveyor or if you see the designation MRCS FRCS after their name, that will mean they’re a member of the institution of charters. So this was the original professional body. It was founded, I think it was founded in 1868 so it’s a fairly old body, take you back quite a long way. So to become a member of the RICS, first we have to do a RICS accredited degree. Now, this is something I think a lot of people who are looking to go into real estate don’t always realize straight away. So it’s something I didn’t realize myself. So my undergraduate degree was in geography. Well, actually, if you want to become a chartered surveyor and you want to do it as quickly as possible, you need to do an accredited degree. So I then did the master’s degree in real estate in order to get that Rik’s accreditation. Once you’ve got that, then you then need to find a job. So you’ll start off as a graduate surveyor. And typically graduate surveyors will work within different departments at the business so they can see, do I want to work in valuations? Do I want to work on professional advisory? Do I want to work for an agency? They’ll have the chance to explore different areas of business. And then as they’re doing this, they’ll be building up – we call it an APC diary. So the APC is an Assessment’s Professional Competence. And your diary is something you fill in as you’re going. So you have to do this over two years. And at the end of the two years, you can do your APC, the Assessment Professional Competence. And that consists of an interview and a presentation. And within that interview, the assessors will decide, does this person demonstrate the professional and ethical standards in order to become a chartered surveyor? So if you do fantastic, that’s great. You’ve passed and you become a Chartered Surveyor. The other route, and this is something that’s open to people who don’t perhaps have professional experience, sorry who don’t have the accredited degree is the professional experience route. So this would allow someone who’s accumulated a certain number of years of professional experience the chance to go straight through to the interview process. So a panel can then decide whether they have enough experience to date, whether they’ve got the qualities required. There’s different routes and not having an RICS degree is not necessarily the end of it but for younger people coming into the industry, it’s the quickest and the easiest way to become chartered.

Darren: That actually sounds like a lot of work. When you say it out loud, I’m just like, “Wow, I’m just really happy that I didn’t have to go through that path because I know it’s a technical.” I’m not someone that like you kind of just read some books and just know how it works. And it does require a lot of particularist experience and study and to be really good at one. So, you know, it’s something that is a very, I wouldn’t say rough, it’s more like it’s an interesting pathway, I would say, in the real estate sector. So it’s kind of cool. So, you know, like obviously this show, I’m sure you’re aware, is for investors or people who want to understand real estate, learn more about investing overseas or locally, and what’s the best way of the whole process. So there’s something that I want to know your point of view on is that what are some potential risk for real estate investors when they neglect engaging with their surveyors? You know, because just now, I think the question we mentioned before is that, you know, in some process, you’ll have to have one. But then it’ll be very important to be as advisors or having a longer team to help you out. So I would like to have your opinion on that.

Tom: Yes, sure. So for me, investment or good investment is about de-risking yourself as much as possible. Typically, for less risky investments, say, putting your money in a high interest yielding account, that’s a fairly low risk investment. So your level of return is going to be pretty low as well. We’re talking maybe one percent possibly. With real estate, you can typically get a yield. Yields in Hong Kong are very light. But still, you’d be looking at the moment to get a yield of around between 2.5% through to 10% plus. Now, the higher the yield, the higher the level of risk is. But if you want to try and really understand that investment, I would say the best thing to do is to bring on board a professional advisor. So this should be someone who’s familiar with the local market, who’s familiar with the property type and who can give you a fair appraisal of that particular investment. So, for instance, maybe we have a client – hypothetical situation we have a client who’s looking to acquire a property in Thailand. Now they may look at the properties and think, “This is great. It’s offering us 9.5% yield every year. It looks like it’s led to some good tenants. It’s a nice new building. Where does that go wrong?” Well, actually, there’s quite a lot that can go wrong. A surveyor at the initial stage, they get to look at that property for you and look at what’s happened in the area around the property. For instance, it may be there’s some serious infrastructure works going on that will affect accessibilities for that property over the next couple of years. If you look at the tenant profile, they may have that market knowledge vacant advisor and say, “hey, your anchor tenant has been in the market for the past six months looking for a new property.” Now, that’s information that you wouldn’t normally have unless you start to speak to a professional. Now, if you speak to a general estate agent, they may tell you things like this in order to try and persuade you to either buy the property or not buy it. If you’re engaging a surveyor and you’re engaging a professional, you should be able to rely on that information much more. As you know, the surveyor doesn’t have a hidden agenda. They make it very clear to you at the start. If they’ve got a conflict of interest or not, if they have, they shouldn’t be acting for you. But normally they won’t if they’re active for you. So you can be confident that they’re giving you unbiased and independent advice. So that can help you formulate the strategy for acquiring a property. So you may look at it now and say, “Okay, 40% the property could be vacant in the next 18 months, what’s going on in the market?” And the surveyor would be able to work with them and say, well, actually, inquiries have dropped down by 20% over the past six months. We’re seeing rents falling and they’ve fallen over the past few quarters by around 5% que on que, and our projection is they’ll continue to fall as well over the next couple of quarters. So you can start to build up much more of a detailed method statement for getting ahead the investments or not. And that enables you to do a proper appraisal. And it may be that once you build in the void periods, once you build in the rental decline, once you build in all the other factors, once you’ve come up with a final figure, the surveyor might say, well, actually you’re looking at this property for $10 million baht. Actually, we only consider the property is worth $7 million baht, particularly if you want to achieve your your 8-9% yield. So it’s it’s helping you to derisk the investment. There’s other roles a surveyor could fulfill as well. So you maybe you employ a building surveyor alongside your commercial surveyor. And the building surveyor might say, well, I’ve had a look at the, I’ve had a look at the construction and there’s a couple of hazardous materials within the building or there’s a couple of inherent defects within the building. And whilst it may not be an issue at the moment, over the next five to 10 years, this may become much more of an issue and may require a significant level of capital expenditure to resolve. So it’s looking longer term as well and looking at what your costs are going to be over that period. So you can see initially an investor may look at the investment and think this is fantastic, but then if they drill down a little bit more, they may start to see some of the issues, some of the hidden costs and some of the some of the things they’re going to have to overcome over the next few years. So for me, it is about giving the investor all the information they need in order to make us as clear and as transparent decision as possible. And that’s really the value of a surveyor. And I’ve seen so many instances where people have gone to buy property and haven’t been properly informed about the property, haven’t taken the right advice and it’s it’s come back to hurt them further down the line. They’re not making as much money as they could have done or they’re ending up losing money.

Darren: For sure. I think something that people it’s like, you know, if you floss every day; people know that they just keep forgetting it. So obviously, hopefully this type of video will help people to remind them that, hey, maybe you should consider engaging with one or having some one on your team to have better decision making. And then so I’ll switch back to something you’re more familiar with the commercial setting right. What kind of role can surveyors do to impact with investments?

Tom: See, there’s, obviously, the initial work they’ll do before you’re looking to buy the property, which we just covered. And then there’s the ongoing management of the property as well. So a surveyor or surveying firm, because you’ll be using different arms or different types of surveyors to do this work, will be able to manage the property for you. They’ll be able to find new tenants. They’ll be here to give you advice on what’s happening elsewhere in the market. For instance, have similar buildings sold recently. Are you seeing certain tenants looking to move around? What’s going on in the market? It will help you to to really understand what’s going on and really give you that information you need to make detailed decisions. So when it comes to when it comes to board meetings, you’ve got to be very clear, very concise details to have exact to what’s happening. So you can make the best possible decisions. One of the roles but is often blurred with an estate agent is on the agency side of things. Using a surveyor for the agency is very different to using an estate agent. First of all, about the additional professional and ethical requirements that a surveyor has, they can’t act for you or they can’t do work if there’s a conflict of interest. So, you know, everything they’re doing for you is going to be in your absolute best interests. And the advice they’re giving you is not to make you make a decision. It’s not for them to make to make a quick dollar from you. It’s for you to make the best possible decisions. I think really for me, that is the fundamental quality of a surveyor. And the reason why people should continue to engage with surveyors is that level of trust and that level of transparency.

Darren: I see, you know, obviously throughout the questions so far, you kind of listed out a couple of ways that surveyors can help. Would you mind because like a lot of people, might need some explanation of how to walk through and everything. Would you mind doing a walk through on one or two scenarios on how and why people need to engage with surveyors and let’s say a fund or, you know, someone who’s got a family office or something like that.

Tom: Okay, so I guess one example could be there’s a fund who have several commercial office buildings. They are looking at what they should do with these properties. Should they hold on to them? Should they sell them? If they sell them, should they sell one or two or should they sell the whole thing? So I would say if you’re ever in this position, the best thing you can do is speak to a surveyor straightaway. The surveyor will be able to come in and provide that information for you. It’s the way that would work initially, I’d say the best thing you could do at this stage is or the initial step would be to get a full appraisal done of all the properties. So that should enable the fund to say, okay, these are our properties. This is what they would be worth if we were to sell them in the current market. So that enables you to look at what the potential returns are if you were to sell the property. The second stage, I would say, would be to undertake a full market, a market appraisal, sort of to look at what’s going on in the market, to look at what else is available. So the surveyor could work with them to say, well, if you sold these properties, you would potentially have a large amount of capital that you’d be looking to redeploy. Now, you could look to redeploy that in the local market. And we’ve identified a couple of opportunities for you. And they’ll be given a list of properties and details on the potential return. Details on what we consider the risks that those particular investments are, how we see that property evolving over time. So do we see it possibly being under the threat of high levels of vacancy? Do we see new buildings being built around it that could perhaps access competition so that should then enable the fund to say, “Well okay, well, if we do sell, this is what we could buy instead.” And that could be extended not just to the local market, but also to a more international scale as well. So it may be a fund asking us in Hong Kong to look at this for them. And we say, well, have you considered investment in Malaysia? And we could connect them with our experts in that part of the world who would then be able to help them see what’s available in that market as well. So it’s about giving them. We’re not telling them which decision to make. We’re giving them the data. We’re giving them the information they need in order to start making these decisions. Now, coming back to the valuation side of things within the valuation report, as well we will typically give advice on what could be done within the property in order to help preserve its value or improve its value. So one of the things we might say is the current average lease term is fairly short. So if we sell the property and you can only say what the current level of income is guaranteed for the next six months, that immediately starts to ring alarm bells for investors. Whereas if we could say to them, if you extended that from, say, at the moment, the average lease time is two years, if we extend some of these key tenants, look to tie them into new leases and perhaps tie them down for longer period maybe up to three years that could have this impact upon your overall value. It may even be that you could offer them a rental discount to get them to sign a longer lease. And that would still increase the value because it’s increasing the level of security investors would have about the level of income. So it’s helping them there to position the assets as well. So say if you did dispose of this asset, this is how you could make sure it’s in the best possible position in the market to achieve the highest possible price. Then if you do say, right, that’s it. We want to sell these two properties. Then you could bring this surveyor back in again to help you sell the property. So that would be a case of producing a suitable marketing program, sending it to various parties who they may know are currently in the market and helping the seller to achieve the best possible price for the property. Then once that’s done, they could work with them again in terms of where do we move the money now? What do we sink this capital into? So it is about providing them with all the advice and guidance and making sure that they’ve got all the information they need to make the decision first of all and then making sure that any decision they do make, they’ve been given the advice to make sure they’re positioning themselves in the best possible place so that they’re achieving the best, the best possible result they can. Now, there’s other roles that the surveyor could do as well in terms of looking at redevelopment, looking at what upcoming works required. The redevelopment tango in Hong Kong is always an interesting one. A number of buildings could be redeveloped to achieve a higher sale price. And that may also be something the client hasn’t initially considered but it could be something we give to them. So say actually, your property’s worth two billion Hong Kong dollars at the moment. However, you’ve got an opportunity to redevelop this asset and there’s a building that’s recently redeveloped just across the street, similar size, and that’s now worth four and a half billion Hong Kong dollars. So maybe they then work with them on the redevelopment to that asset so that they’ve got the best possible. They’ve maximized the value of that of that particular property.

Darren: I think you did a great job of painting the whole picture, because now, I’m sure everyone will be like now I understand the differences and then it sounds like you are also the investors very close alliance to like how to make the asset better, investment better and think better. And obviously, the decision making is still on the investors point of view. But you’re there to support them in every single journey. So you did a very good picture painting of what you do and what surveyors do as a whole, how does the industry evolved over the years? And then you know we both understand Property Tech and the power of it. What’s your view on how technology can change the whole landscape of it?

Tom: So just to give a bit of a brief history and in terms of our profession. So Surveryors actually the first use of the term surveyor was actually found in ancient Egypt. So surveyors worked back in Egyptian times. They helped to map the land when the Nile would flood each year. And then when the flood waters receded, they helped to map who or which particular farmer would have which particular parcel of land. So that’s how surveying started. And then even probably up till 200 years ago, that was still the main role of surveyors. It was about mapping land. And it was about registering ownership. Now, when the industrial revolution happened and you saw more more commercial buildings. So up until that point, you had shops sure, but typically, a shop was the ground floor of someone’s house. You didn’t really have factory buildings. You’d have farms, but no factories. And the concept of an office was still fairly, fairly abstract at that point. So when the industrial revolution happened, you started seeing much more in the way of development of commercial buildings. And then surveying evolved as well to meet the needs of the owners of these buildings. So at first, factories, offices, they would be developed by whoever it was who would one day occupy the building, but then they started realizing, okay actually, we want to move to a larger factory, but I would like to hold onto this one and try and find a new tenant. And that’s where surveying really started to change and become much more transactional, much more advisory in that regard as well. And that was really the birth of commercial surveying. Now, as an industry, surveying has been fairly slow to adapt to technological changes. From a boss who used to take great pleasure in telling me about how the standard day would start, they’d all sit around in the mayor room for two hours opening letters. And a number of my former colleagues, particularly older ones, they would still most of the work they did was on pen and paper. They still like to use tape measures, measure rods. They hadn’t moved on to perhaps a bit more I’d say recent developments. But actually, the likes of laser measures, computer aided design, that’s been around for a long time. But still, there’s been a reluctance particularly among our oldest surveyors to properly embrace that. We still see it today. I’d say, in terms of the use of technology, surveying is is behind many other sectors. Now, I’m not sure exactly what the reasons for this are. And I have to say as well in Hong Kong, it seems to be a particular problems. I’d say Hong Kong perhaps hasn’t fully embraced all the changes in the same way as some of the other parts of the world have. But going forward, I think technology has huge potential to severely disrupt our industry. So we’ve been looking at this a lot lately, say, for appraisal, one of the things you can start seeing a lot more of and you start to see in other parts of the world is automated valuation models. So these are essentially what you would do you’ll see on a lot of Websites, you can get free one done, you just put in your property address and details and it gives you a rough value where the automated variation models taken that a couple of steps further. So, again, you give all the details about your property and then within, say, 10 minutes, it can give you a fairly accurate valuation. So I’ve seen reports saying that they’ve managed to get the automated vibration models through in 95% accuracy. I’m not disputing that and I think that certainly will start to happen more. But that technology is still catching up. It’s still trying to fully incorporate all the all the subtleties that perhaps you need in order to appraise the value of a property. But that’s going to severely change the way we value properties. And for investors, instead of bringing on board a firm of surveyors to do the evaluation for them in say, two weeks, if they could get a figure of in 10 minutes and minimizing all these human errors, that’s got to be a major attraction. The other side of it is we’ve agency. So we’ve seen the rise of virtual agents. So at the moment, these don’t take on any physical form. It’s entirely, entirely based online. But I’ve seen some places where you go out and you have the virtual agent on your phone and you can say, “Oh, hey, what did what did this property sell for next door?” And the virtual agent will be equipped of all the with all the transaction information that’s available. Everything that you’re able to build into that database and they can say, oh, this property sold last year for this price. Now, normally, if you go in the command of property, whoever is showing you around should be able to tell you roughly what properties will sell for next door. But to have this service, to have someone who’s got all the information on hand, every single transaction you’ve got records of, that is incredibly valuable. And these electronic agents, they’re available 24/7. They have a 100% callback records. So really, that’s going to change massively how we buy and sell property. Now, does that mean the end of people like me, humans surveyors? No, absolutely not. I certainly hope not. I think there’s still real estate. Real estate is very much relationship driven still. And I think always will be. So I think these technological changes will help to compliment the industry and they will help to improve our standards as well. They’ll help us to minimize some of our errors, they’ll help us to become more efficient. But as far as valuation gaze, yes, a large part of valuation is scientific, but also valuation is still very much an art as well. And I’m not sure a computer model will therefore be able to fully capture that. They might do. But my thoughts of it is that they won’t. So I think that there will always be a role for human surveyors but certainly technology has enormous potential to change the industry as we know it.

Darren: Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of similar products to facilitate a surveyor like AVM, for example, like I remember when I heard about it, I was like “this is too good to be true.” But a lot of people in the industry would think that, hey, some market you can do AVM. Not all of them. And not all the asset class, you know, commercial there’s not much comparables besides it. Residential’s are easier but even rezoning or a new development is still going to be very different. At the same time, there’s drill and everything. but I believe that a surveyor is kind of like, there’s so many neurons, you can’t just have a computer and say, hey, it’s the best outcome. I believe there are more neurons that sometimes it’s not part of that which comes – because our mutual friend Gary has startup called inflow. And so I saw a guest post on it about the global measuring standard. And sorry about that, National Property Management’s standards, sorry about that and then would you mind explaining to the audience what that’s about, because I’m very new to it and it seems like a very big topic in the industry.

Tom: Yes. Absolutely. First off, I’ll just touch briefly on what you just said as well about AVM would work better in certain markets in Hong Kong, we’re very lucky. The market is very transparent. There’s a lot of comparable information around. Same in other markets, Australia, the United Kingdom as well. Very transparent markets in some of the less transparent markets like the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma. It’s much harder to find any comparable information at all. And even if you did, you can’t be that confident with it. You should never take comparative information you can find for these sort of markets and rely upon it. So that’s where again, it has potential. It has potential but there’s still a lot of issues. Then leading on to your next question about the international property measurement standards. I’ll refer to it as IPMS for short. Less of a mouthful, but that really is about transparency again and the information that’s available in the market. So before globalization, I’d say it didn’t matter as much different markets would have certain measurement standards and ways of measurement buildings they used. And it was fine because normally you didn’t need to know about other countries, other markets in as much detail as you do today. The issue we have now is if you’re in charge of the directive, the real state director for a large multinational company, you’re in charge of properties located all across the world. And if you’re comparing a property, typically what we one of the first things to look at with real estate is how big is it? How many square feet is it? How much is it worth per square foot? What can I rent it for per square foot, even down to what other running costs and typically running costs will be expressed, you might say it’s $30 US dollars a square meter to run this particular building. Everything is brought back to size. How much space do you need? It comes down to square feet again. But one of the issues we found and this was discovered probably relatively recently was only around 10, 15 years ago. But they looked at – they took the same office building, exactly the same floor plate. And they had various professionals from across the world try to measure the building and say how big that building was. And what they found is there was a 25% difference in unquoted areas between these professionals, which is enormous, it’s really enormous. And how can you make a decision about real estate and about property if you don’t even have the most basic of information available to enable you to do that. And what we were finding in the market is someone will come to us and they’d say, okay, we have 100 people, and in the UK we occupy one person per hundred square feet. So this is how much space we need. But then when you come down to looking for space, it may be that the UK is measured 25% larger than the market you’re looking at. So you may end up actually taking a space which is 25% too small. And we’ve seen that become an issue. And you see it is costly for businesses because they can’t fit all their staff into the office from the start and then they end up having to move once so they’ve spent all the money going into the office, and then they can only be there for one lease term before they have to move on to find a better, a larger building. So to help them with their decision making to make an even playing field, the idea of having a truly global measuring standard was introduced and it began life solely with offices from January 2016. So we haven’t seen huge uptake so far. But it’s certainly something if you speak to a Chartered Surveyor, it’s something they will be very familiar with and a chartered surveyor should be able to give you the area of building using the IPMS assets, so they should be able to look at both your buildings in different countries and give you a consistent measuring standard that you can then use to make decisions from. Now one of the reasons I think this is important for Hong Kong as well when it comes to finding office space in Hong Kong, you can very quickly become confused about what basis of measurement the landlord is using. You’ll see some landlords stating this office is 10 000 square feet gross. This is 10 000 square foot letter Bo. This is 10 000 square foot on whatever basis of measurement they want to use. This is fairly unique to Hong Kong in most other markets. All the landlords who use the same basis of measurement may not necessarily use IPMS, but they will use the same basis of measurement. But in Hong Kong, it can be very difficult to compare certain buildings because they’ve been measured in a different way. And this trips up a lot of occupiers here as well, because they might say, well, we looked at 10 000 square foot in this building, so it’s got to be the same in this building. Now, it all depends on what basis of measurement they’ve used. And you may think because you’re given the rent, they might say this is HK$20 a square foot. This building is HK$100 per square foot and think oh great this ones the cheaper building, but actually, it might not be. You may be paying more for the space you’re actually physically able to use because of the basis measurement they’ve used. So really IPMS is about improving transparency, letting occupier’s and letting decision makers see exactly how much space they actually have in the building. So it is a very important step.

Darren: I see, So it sounds like a very important thing to do, right? So let’s say if you have a big, you know, a broadcast or a voice through the whole industry, right, how would you tell them about how this standard can impact the industry? And I want to ask you more about why you think it;s not implemented yet? Because it sounds like something that from a surveyor point of view, it sounds very logical even when I heard a whole description of it, it sounds very logical so far but how come it hasn’t been taken so far?

Tom: Yes so I think that the IPMS is an initiative. So people who perhaps aren’t RICS members initially at first will be like oh it doesn’t apply to me, I don’t need to use this. And even people who are RICS members as well. It can be very difficult at the moment still to implement it. And a lot of that comes down to education. So a lot of clients will say we’ve always used this basis of measurement, it’s going to be very difficult for us to explain to our investors why the area has suddenly changed and you’re now telling me the property is 10% smaller than we believed it was. So that’s the difficulty. And I think that’s one of the roles as surveyors is to help raise the awareness of this among our clients and to show them the benefits of it, to help them feel more comfortable perhaps with utilizing it. It’s still fairly early days. As I said about technology in the real estate industry can be quite resistant to change. So I think it’s something you’ve going to start seeing more of going forward. And although it may be a while until all the landlords are using this, it may never get to that stage where landlords use this. But we should be in a position where if you’ve employed a chartered surveyor, they will be able to provide you the advice on this. And they’ll be to give you what the IPMS measurement is for the buildings you’re looking at. They may need to measure it again themselves. If the information isn’t available, but they should be to give you that information to help you make your decisions.

Darren: I see, so, I think today you’ve covered a lot of very important information about what a surveyor does, the future of it, what can be done and why is it important? What kind of take away do you want the audience to have? Regardless, there are maybe retail investors, family offices. What kind of tips do you have for them to find the best surveyors or engage a surveyor to help their investments?

Tom: Thank you, So firstly, you need to make sure you’re engaged in the right surveyor. Now, surveyors should be able to tell you straight away. For instance, if someone phoned me up and said, hey, I’m looking for some advice, I’m looking to buy a shopping mall complex in Australia, I would say straightaway, “Look, I don’t have the knowledge in order to assist you on that. However, I can refer you to a colleague who does have that knowledge.” So you want to make sure you’re using the right surveyor for the job. So surveyors should tell you this, but do look at their background, look at where they’re based, look at their track record. Look at what projects they’ve been involved in in the past. Make sure you get the best person to give you that advice. The other thing, and this is the absolute key, is have a chat with them. Explain what your desired outcome looks like. So the surveyor should be saying to you right from the beginning. Okay, what is your current reality? What’s the position you’re currently in? And now what is your desired reality? How do you want this to look? Once we’ve gone through the project and they should be able to give you some information there and then about how they will help you get from your current reality to your desired reality. But I think really it comes down to expertise. If you’re not using a real expert. You’re not going to be getting the full value for money. So you really need to make sure you’re using the right person. And I think that can be difficult to find, but typically, you want to find someone who’s in the market you’re working in or has a track record within that market.

Darren: I see. I mean, that’s what Denzity kind of wants to do too, because we thought that if we have a better assortment of different experts for example different types of surveyors, different experience, different expertise, then people will spend less time sorting to find the experts. And there won’t be miscommunications or disengagement with someone that cannot help you? So it’s something that always obviously to me, it makes a lot of sense, but something that a lot of investors tend to make. So I want to say thank you for this episode, for your time it’s very informative and for the audience who might want to find you, talk to you more about your services, how would you suggest they reach out to you?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m on Linkedin so you can search for Tom Parker MRICS. Yes. Or Tom Parker Collier’s and you should be to find me that way. Similarly, you could email me. Always very responsive to emails and happy to speak to people, even if they’ve just got a question about how to get into the industry as well. So my email is Tom.Parker@Colliers.com. And they are probably the two main methods to reach out and find me. I do produce a fair amount of media for other sources, but not on social media at the moment myself.

Darren: Okay, that’s fine. So I’ll include everything in the show notes and I want to say thank you for your time, it was a pleasure and I hope there’s a second episode where you can join us again, about maybe I’ll get Gary together, talk about the future of surveying, different type of a way of looking at it so thanks for your time again. Thank you.

Tom: No problem. Thanks, Darren. Thanks so much. Cheers.

Darren: Thank you, bye.

Tom: Bye bye.

Darren:Tom,嘿。 

Tom:嘿,Darren,最近怎麼樣?

 Darren:很好。好。感謝您的參與,因為我認為我遇到了您,我認為去年接近去年。在我們行業中,有很多人在歡樂時光裡喝酒。上個月我又和我的朋友Gary認識了。談論我們的工作真是太好了。還有一些我作為測量師真正想知道的事情,因為我曾經在房地產基金工作,所以我與測量師一起工作的唯一時間是評估。但是對於發展而言,顯然是在其他作品中往往會更多,並賦予不同的測量師。所以這關於此類主題更多。因此,感謝您的參與,我希望這對我們所有人來說都是爆炸。

Tom:太棒了,謝謝希望我和我都非常期待。

 Darren:是的,對於可能不知道您是誰的觀眾來說,您介意告訴他們您的背景以及您的工作嗎? 

 Tom:是的,絕對。所以,大家好 我叫Tom Parker。我是香港Colliers國際聯合會諮詢服務的經理。我在香港工作現在已經接近兩年了。以前,我曾在英國工作,於2011年開始工作。因此, 我是一名特許測量師。因此,這意味著我是英國皇家特許測量師學會的會員,並且我也是RICS註冊。所以我的大部分工作基本上都涉及進行評估和整個亞洲的諮詢項目。不僅限於香港,我還在英國從事一些工作。因此,這是一個相當全球性的任務。但本質上我的主要職責是幫助客戶制定投資決策,幫助他們有效地管理自己的投資組合,確保他們獲得正確的建議來製定這些決策。 

Darren:對於那些不熟悉測量師和評估師的聽眾和我自己來說,我感覺很好,您介意向聽眾大範圍介紹該概念及其作用嗎? 

Tom:當然。從本質上講,評估是測量師的職責。所以你可以有測量師擔任各種不同的角色。有測量師評估藝術品和文物,有測量師將測量參與其中的土地測量師項目建設。他們將研究建築物的缺陷,估計建築物的成本以及所需的建築材料。但是大多數調查一般來說,如果您聽到普通測量師,他們通常是財產測量師,通常也是商業測量師。因此,我們的職責之一就是評估。然後除此之外,我們還將進行房東和承租人工作,我們還將進行代理工作。因此,我們執行全部功能。評估本質上是給在特定時間點的物業或建築物的價值。這就是我們可以履行的眾多角色之一。

Darren:所以,是的,我就像生活在一塊岩石下,所以我對此主題有很多疑問。因此,在開始之前,您會介意的是,因為您剛才提到有商業測量師,有住宅測量師還有什麼其他類型?那麼,新的房地產投資者傾向於使用哪種類型的投資呢?

Tom:好的,最簡單的方法是分成三個不同的途徑。因此,有財產測量師。有土地測量師。然後是藝術品和古代測量師。所以藝術和古物相當小。這是測量的相當小眾的部分。他們本質上將看美術,提供價值用於美術。如果這完全是一門藝術,他們會評估附加值,例如,一個例子可能是,我來自英格蘭西南部,您可能聽說過塗鴉藝術家Banksy。

Darren:是的

Tom:擁有Banksy的房地產(在布里斯托爾有一些房地產)可能對該房地產的價值產生重大影響。所以我們看到啟用Banksy的屬性與相鄰的屬性之間存在巨大差異。這是事情的一方面。然后土地測量師,他們通常是您經常在街上看到的人。他們有三腳架。他們有相機。他們在看距離。他們看著不同的土地。那就是測量師最初的想法。一個主要角色,因此術語“測量員”,就是在測量土地,例如您會看到農產品。您在哪裡看到輪廓線。在這裡您可以看到高山。那是測量師最初製作的作品。那也仍然是–它已成為勘測領域的利基部分。因此,通常當有人說我是測量師時,我是特許測量師,他們會談論房地產測量,然後我們可以將其劃分為四個站點。我通常看的是商業建築,即辦公室,商店工業地產也可能是醫院,學校等。然後將有住宅空間,然後您還將擁有真正的測量師。您在香港並不常見。在英國相當普遍,他們將主要著眼於農田。他們將致力於出售大片土地。他們也會看替代能源項目也是如此。發電廠這樣的工作。然後還有數量測量師的建築。所以建築測量師就是你如果您想購買建築物,則會打電話給您,但您想知道,此物業有任何缺陷嗎?如果我今天買,我可能要花多少錢在未來五到十年?我正在將此建築物保持在標準水平。然後還有數量測量師。他們通常會長期建設項目。他們的工作是說,好的,要完成這個項目,您將需要X塊磚,一定數量的時間。因此,他們將與項目成本核算一起工作,以確保所有材料都按時交付。而且您確切知道要花多少錢。現在通常最主要的是商業空間。

Darren:顯然,因為在房地產調查中顯然具有非常重要的作用, 我將在後面詳細介紹。然後我只是認為,很多人在考慮測量時,它與轉售緊密相關。您是否願意在轉讓中作為測量師的角色中將其解釋為?

Tom:您看到,轉移實質上就是買賣資產。所以測量師,你不需要讓測量師與您一起買賣土地,但是我會強烈建議您這樣做。原因有很多。因此,如果您打算在首次購買或出售一塊土地時將測量師帶入,他們的角色將純粹是建議性的。所以你可以說,看,我對處置此財產感興趣。你能進來看看嗎?驗船師可以進來,首先,他們可以做的是為您評估財產的價值。所以在那個舞台上,您馬上就會知道,“好吧,我的大樓價值100萬港幣。” 因此,您對應該在市場上出售的商品有一個很好的了解,當您收到要約是否代表市場價值時,可以有相當的信心。他們的另一個角色可能是讓他們與您一起研究是否這樣做符合您當時的最大利益。因此,您可能會說,好吧,我們打算在未來六個月內處置此房產,但測量師可能會說,嗯,實際上,您考慮過這個嗎?這可能是在特定時間出售房產不符合其最大利益的多種原因。因此,驗船師應能夠與他們合作,以幫助他們提出解決方案。還有更多的爭奪和結構化的處置計劃。然後涉及到技術方面。所以我們做了很多工作仍然是基於代理機構。因此,我們將代表特定的賣方幫助他們找到該物業的買方。這不僅涉及尋找買家,而且還要確保達成買賣協議的條件,“它們最適合賣方並且可以得到最好的條件嗎?”這樣可以幫助他們知道自己正在得到-因此他們將在整個過程中一直得到他們的建議。然後,當涉及到實際的法律方面時產權轉讓,驗船師將與客戶一起與律師一起工作,以確保客戶得到房地產方面的建議。所以雖然很多律師是大多數律師,當涉及到房地產的一些技術性更高的方面時,他們將具有相當程度的房地產知識,但仍然值得付出您角落裡的測量師可以幫助您了解如果您同意某個條款,這對您意味著什麼,某個條款可能意味著什麼?確保您完全了解該過程。而且我認為他們可以增加律師在這種情況下可能做不到的價值。

Darren:我明白了。因為就像,當我聽它時,這似乎是一項非常技術性的工作,並且它似乎需要的所有東西都需要大量的學習,大量的經驗和深刻的見解。房地產行業的很多人甚至可能都不知道。因此,您需要成為一名測量師,並且需要成為哪種執照?

Tom:再次,這取決於您想參加哪種測量,要成為哪個專業背景,要成為哪個專業團體。通常術語“測量師”與特許測量師一詞並列。因此,如果有人對您說,我是特許測量師,或者您看到的名稱是MRCS, FRCS的名字後面,表示他們是特許機構的成員。因此,這是原始的專業機構。它成立了,我認為是成立於1868年,所以它是一個相當老的機構,帶您回去很遠。因此要成為RICS的成員,首先我們必須獲得RICS認可的學位。現在,我認為這是很多想要進入房地產領域的人並不總是立刻意識到。所以這是我沒有意識到的我自己。所以我的大學本讀地理。好吧,實際上,如果您想成為一名特許測量師,並且想要盡快完成,那麼您需要認可的學位。因此,為了獲得RICS的認證,我隨後取得了房地產碩士學位。一旦知道了然後您需要找到工作。因此,您將從研究生測量師開始。通常,研究生測量師將在業務,以便他們可以看到,我想從事估值工作嗎?我想從事專業諮詢嗎?我想為代理商工作嗎?他們將有機會探索不同的事物業務領域。然後,當他們這樣做時,他們會不斷成長-我們稱之為APC日記。因此,APC是評估的專業能力。還有你的日記是您隨時隨地填寫的內容。因此,您必須在兩年內執行此操作。在兩年結束時,您可以進行APC,即評估專業能力。然後包括訪談和演講。在這次面試中,評估人員將決定,此人是否證明其職業和道德標準,以便成為特許測量師?因此,如果您做得很棒,那就太好了。您已通過並成為特許測量師。另一條路線,這是東西這對那些可能沒有專業經驗的人開放,對不起沒有獲得認可學位的人是專業經驗的途徑。因此,這將允許積累了一定年限的專業經驗,有機會直接進入面試過程。這樣一來,專家小組就可以決定他們迄今為止是否有足夠的經驗,以及他們是否具備所需的素質。有不同的路線,沒有RICS學位不一定就是終點但是對於進入這個行業的年輕人來說,這是最快,最容易的特許經營方式。

Darren:這實際上聽起來像是很多工作。當您大聲說出來時,我就像:“哇,真高興我不必走那條路,因為我知道這是技術性的。” 我不是喜歡你的人,只是讀書和讀書知道它是如何工作的。它確實需要大量的專家經驗和學習,並且真的很擅長。所以,你知道,這是非常我不會說粗糙,這更像是房地產行業中一條有趣的途徑。有點酷。您知道,就像這次演出一樣,我確定您知道,適用於希望了解房地產,了解更多有關在海外或本地投資以及什麼是整個過程的最佳方法的投資者或人士。所以我想了解一下您的觀點,即房地產投資者在忽略與測量師的合作時會面臨哪些潛在風險?您知道,因為現在,我認為我們之前提到的問題是,在某些過程中,您將必須擁有一個。但是,成為顧問或擁有更長的團隊來幫助您將非常重要。因此,我想就此發表您的看法。

Tom:是的,肯定的。因此,對我而言,投資或良好的投資是要盡可能地降低自己的風險。通常,對於風險較小的投資,例如,將您的資金投入高息收益賬戶,這是一個相當低風險的投資。因此,您的回報水平也將很低。我們在說一個可能%。有了房地產,您通常可以獲得收益。香港的收益非常低。但是,儘管如此,您還是會尋找獲得收益率在2.5%到10%以上之間。現在,收益越高,風險水平就越高。但如果您想嘗試並真正了解這項投資,我想說的最好的辦法就是聘請專業顧問。因此,這應該是熟悉當地市場,熟悉房地產類型並且能夠給您對那項特定投資的公正評估。因此,例如,也許我們有一個客戶-假設情況,我們有一位客戶打算在泰國購置房產。現在他們可能會看一下屬性並認為“這太棒了。它每年為我們提供9.5%的收益。這看起來像是招募了一些好租戶。這是一棟漂亮的新建築。哪裡出問題了?” 好吧,實際上,有可能會出錯。最初的測量師,他們會去研究為您準備的物業,看看物業周圍地區發生了什麼。例如,可能正在進行一些嚴重的基礎架構工作,這將影響在未來幾年內該物業的可及性。如果您查看租戶資料,他們可能有空缺的市場知識顧問,並說:“嘿,您的主租戶已經進入了在過去六個月中尋找新房產。“現在,除非您開始與專業人士交談,否則您通常不會擁有這些信息。現在,如果您與一般房地產經紀人交談,他們可能會告訴您這樣的事情,以試圖說服您購買或不購買財產。如果您正在聘請測量師,並且正在聘請專業人士,那麼您應該能夠更多地依賴該信息。如您所知,驗船師沒有隱藏的議程。他們向您很清楚開始。如果他們存在利益衝突或沒有利益衝突,那麼就不應該為您行事。但是通常,如果他們為您活躍,他們就不會。這樣您就可以確信他們正在給予您沒有偏見和獨立的建議。這樣可以幫助您制定購置房產的策略。因此,您現在可以看一下,然後說:“好吧,有40%該物業在未來18個月內可能會空置,市場情況如何?”而且,驗船師將能夠與他們合作,說,實際上,在過去六個月中,諮詢量下降了20%。我們看到租金在下降,並且在過去幾個季度中下降了5% que on que,我們的預測是,在接下來的兩個季度中,它們還將繼續下降。這樣您就可以開始建立更多詳細說明是否進行投資的方法。這使您可以做一個適當的評估。可能是,一旦您在閒置期間建立了建築,一旦您建立了租金下降,又在考慮了所有其他因素之後,一旦得出了最終數字, 驗船師可能會說,嗯,實際上您是在以1,000萬泰銖的價格購入這處房產。實際上,我們只考慮該物業的價值為700萬泰銖,尤其是如果您想要達到8-9%的收益率。因此,它可以幫助您降低投資風險。 驗船師還可以發揮其他作用。因此,您可能同時僱用了建築測量師和商業測量師。建築測量師可能會說,嗯,我已經看了一下,我看了看建築,建築物內有幾種有害物質,或者建築物內有一些固有缺陷。和雖然目前可能不是問題,但在未來五到十年內,這可能會成為更多問題,並可能需要大量的資本支出來解決。所以它也需要更長遠的時間,並希望在這段時間內您的費用將會增加。因此,您可以看到一開始,投資者可能會看一下投資並認為這很棒,但是如果他們再深入一點,他們可能會開始看到一些問題,一些隱性成本以及一些他們將必須要做的事情在接下來的幾年中克服。因此,對我而言,這是向投資者提供他們需要的所有信息,以使我們更加清晰和盡可能透明的決定。這確實是測量師的價值。而且我見過很多人去買房而沒有去過的地方適當地了解了該物業,沒有採取正確的建議,這是回來對他們進一步造成傷害。他們賺的錢不如他們本來可以做的,否則他們最終會虧本。

Darren:當然。我想,如果每天用牙線剔牙,人們會感覺很像。人們知道他們只是忘了它。所以很明顯希望這種類型的視頻能夠幫助人們提醒他們,嘿,也許您應該考慮與一個人或團隊中的某個人交往,以便做出更好的決策。然後,我將切換回您正在使用的更熟悉商業設置權。測量師可以對投資產生什麼樣的影響?

Tom:顯然,有在您打算購買房地產之前,他們將做初步工作,而我們剛剛介紹了該房地產。然後,還有財產的持續管理。所以測量師或測量公司,因為您將使用不同的部門或不同類型的測量師來執行此工作,因此將能夠為您管理財產。他們將能夠找到新的租戶。他們將在這里為您提供市場上其他地方的建議。例如,出售類似的建築物最近。您是否看到某些租戶想要四處走動?市場上發生了什麼?它將幫助您真正了解發生了什麼,並真正為您提供做出詳細決策所需的信息。所以什麼時候關於董事會會議,您必須非常清楚,非常簡潔的細節才能準確地了解正在發生的事情。因此,您可以做出最佳決策。角色之一,但房地產經紀人經常會在代理方面模糊不清。為機構使用測量師與使用測量師有很大不同房地產經紀人。首先,關於驗船師的其他專業和道德要求,他們不能為您服務,或者如果有必要,他們就不能工作。有利益衝突。因此,您知道,他們為您所做的一切都將符合您的絕對最大利益。他們給你的建議不是讓你做一個決定。他們不是要從您那裡賺錢。為您做出最佳決策。我認為對我來說, 是測量師的基本素質。人們繼續與測量師交流的原因是信任程度和透明度。

Darren:我知道,到目前為止,顯然在整個問題中,您都列出了一些驗船師可以提供幫助的方式。您介意嗎,因為像很多人一樣,可能需要對如何遍歷以及一切進行一些解釋。你介意做一個講解一個或兩個場景,說明人們如何以及為何需要與測量師互動,並假設有一個基金,或者,您知道有家族辦公室的人。

Tom:好的,所以我想一個例子可能是一家擁有幾座商業辦公樓的基金。他們是研究他們應該如何使用這些屬性。他們應該堅持嗎?他們應該賣嗎?如果出售它們,應該出售一兩個還是全部出售?因此,我想說的是,如果您曾經擔任過這個職位,那麼最好的辦法就是直接與測量師交談。驗船師將能夠進入並為您提供該信息。它的最初的工作方式,我想說,您在此階段可以做的最好的事情是,或者第一步是獲得完整的評估完成所有屬性。因此,這應該使該基金能夠說,好的,這是我們的財產。如果我們要在市場上出售它們,這就是它們的價值。當前市場。這樣一來,您可以查看如果出售該物業的潛在回報。我要說的第二階段是整個市場,一個市場評估,某種程度上看市場上正在發生的事情,看其他可用的東西。所以驗船師可以與他們一起說,好吧,如果您出售了這些房產,您可能會希望重新部署大量資本。現在您可以考慮將其重新部署到本地市場。我們為您找到了一些機會。並且會為他們提供屬性列表和詳細信息潛在回報。有關我們如何考慮這些特定投資的風險,如何看待該資產的詳細信息隨著時間的流逝。那麼,我們是否認為它可能受到高空缺的威脅?我們看到正在建造新建築物嗎可能會參與競爭,從而使該基金說:“好吧,如果我們確實賣出,這就是我們可以做的。 改為購買。”這不僅可以擴展到本地市場,還可以擴展到更國際化的規模。因此,這可能是一個基金請香港我們為他們研究一下。我們說,嗯,您是否考慮過在馬來西亞投資?我們可以將它們與我們位於世界各地的專家將能夠幫助他們了解該市場上的可用產品。所以這是給他們的。我們不是在說他們做出哪個決定。我們正在向他們提供數據。我們正在為他們提供他們所需的信息,以便他們開始做出這些決定。現在,回到估價報告中有關估價的方面,我們通常也會就物業內可以做什麼提供建議為了幫助保留其價值或提高其價值。所以我們可能要說的一件事是當前的平均值租賃期限很短。因此,如果我們出售房產,而您只能說出未來六個月的當前收入水平,立即開始為投資者敲響警鐘。鑑於我們可以對他們說,如果從目前的情況來看,平均租賃時間為兩年,如果我們擴展其中一些關鍵租戶,希望將他們與新租約捆綁在一起,也許將他們捆綁更長的時間,可能長達三年可能會對您的整體價值產生影響。您甚至可以為他們提供租金折扣,以使他們簽訂更長的租約。而且那仍然會增加的價值,因為它提高了投資者對收入水平的了解程度。因此,它也幫助他們在那裡放置資產。所以說,如果您確實處置了這項資產,您可以通過這種方法確保其在市場上處於最佳位置,以實現最高的價格。那如果你說對,那就是。我們要出售這兩個屬性。然後,您可以重新帶這個測量師,以幫助您出售財產。因此,這將是合適的營銷計劃,將其發送給他們可能知道目前在市場上的各方,並幫助賣方為商品爭取最佳價格。屬性。然後,一旦完成,他們可以再次與他們合作,確定我們現在將資金移至何處?我們將這筆資金用於什麼?所以這是關於向他們提供所有建議和指導,並確保他們掌握了做出決定所需的所有信息。,然後確保他們做出的任何決定都得到了建議,以確保他們將自己定位在最佳位置,從而實現目標最好的,他們可以做到的最好的結果。現在,在重新開發方面,測量師還可以扮演其他角色,研究即將開展的工作。香港的探戈舞總是很有趣的。許多建築物可以重建實現更高的銷售價格。這可能也是客戶最初沒有考慮的事情,但這可能是我們提供給他們的事情。所以說實際上目前該物業的價值為20億港元。但是,您有機會重新開發此資產,並且有一棟最近重新開發的建築物就在街對面,規模差不多,現在價值40億港幣。因此,也許他們然後與他們一起進行重新開發資產,以使他們擁有最大的可能。他們已將特定屬性的價值最大化。

Darren:我認為您在整個繪畫方面做得很好因為現在,我敢肯定每個人都會像現在一樣,我理解了差異,然後聽起來您就像也是投資者非常緊密的聯盟喜歡如何使資產更好,投資更好並且思考得更好。顯然,決策仍在投資者的角度。但是您可以在每一個地方為他們提供支持旅程。因此,您對自己的工作以及測量員的整體做了很好的繪畫,這些年來,行業是如何發展的?然後你知道我們倆了解Property Tech及其功能。您對技術如何改變其整體前景有何看法?

Tom:因此,僅簡要介紹一下我們的職業歷史。因此,驗船師實際上是在古埃及發現了驗船師一詞的首次使用。因此,測量師在埃及時代開始工作。當尼羅河每年洪水氾濫時,他們幫助繪製了土地圖。然後當洪水退去時,他們幫助繪製了誰或哪個特定農民將擁有哪個特定土地的地圖。這就是調查開始的方式。然後甚至直到200年前,這仍然是測量師的主要角色。這是關於測繪土地。這與註冊所有權有關。現在,當工業革命發生時,您看到了更多的商業建築。所以直到那時商店肯定是,但通常情況下,商店是某人房屋的底樓。你真的沒有工廠大廈。您將擁有農場,但沒有工廠。和概念那時的辦公室仍然相當抽象。因此,當工業革命發生時,您開始在商業建築的開發方式中看到更多。然後,為了滿足這些建築物的所有者的需求,也進行了測量。首先,工廠,辦公室不管是誰,有一天會佔領這座建築物,但後來他們開始意識到,好吧,我們想要遷移到一家更大的工廠,但我想抓住這個工廠,嘗試尋找新的租戶。這就是調查真正開始發生變化的地方, 在這方面變得更具交易性,也更具諮詢性。那確實是商業測量的誕生。現在,作為行業,為了適應技術變化,測量一直很慢。來自曾經非常高興的老闆告訴我標準的一天將如何開始,他們都坐在市長房間裡閒逛了兩個小時。我的一些前同事,尤其是年長的同事,他們所做的大部分工作仍然是筆和紙。他們仍然喜歡使用捲尺,量尺。他們沒有繼續前進我想說的是最近的事態發展。但是實際上,激光測量,計算機輔助設計之類的東西已經存在了很長時間。但仍然,特別是在我們最年長的測量師中,仍然不願意正確地接受這一點。今天我們仍然看到它。我會說,利用技術,勘測落後於許多其他部門。現在,我不確定到底是什麼原因。我在香港也不得不說,這似乎是一個特殊的問題。我會說香港也許還沒有完全以與世界上其他一些地區相同的方式接受了所有變化。但是展望未來,我認為技術具有巨大的潛力來嚴重破壞我們的工業。因此,最近我們一直在進行評估,例如進行評估,其中一件事是您可以開始看到更多東西,然後您開始在世界其他地方看到是自動評估模型。因此,從本質上講,這些就是您會在許多網站上看到的內容,您可以免費獲得一份,只需輸入屬性地址和詳細信息,它為您提供了一個粗略的價值,其中自動變化模型採取了進一步的步驟。所以,再次,您付出所有有關您財產的詳細信息,然後在10分鐘之內,它可以為您提供相當準確的估價。所以我看到有報導說他們已經設法以95%的準確度獲得了自動振動模型。我沒有爭議,我認為肯定會開始發生更多的事情。但是該技術仍在追趕。它仍在嘗試將所有評估屬性值可能需要的所有微妙之處。但這將嚴重改變我們評估屬性的方式。對於投資者來說如果他們能在10分鐘內得到一個數字,那麼他們就不用花兩週的時間來聘請測量師事務所為他們進行評估,盡量減少所有這些人為錯誤,這將是一個主要的吸引力。另一面是我們代理。 因此,我們已經看到了虛擬代理的興起。因此,目前這些還沒有採取任何物理形式。完全是基於在線。但是我看過一些地方,您外出時,手機上有虛擬座席,您可以說:“哦,嘿該物業在隔壁賣了什麼?”虛擬代理將配備所有可用的交易信息。建立到該數據庫中,他們可以說,哦,去年該物業以這個價格出售。現在,通常,如果輸入property的命令誰向您展示周圍的人,都應該能夠大致告訴您隔壁將出售哪些物業。但是要獲得這項服務,要有人掌握所有信息, 您有記錄的單筆交易,這是非常有價值的。這些電子代理商可以24/7全天候使用。他們有100% 回調記錄。因此,確實,這將大大改變我們買賣房地產的方式。現在,這是否意味著像我這樣的人,人類測量師?不,絕對不是。我當然希望不會。我認為仍有房地產。真實房地產仍然是很多關係驅動的。而且我認為永遠都會如此。因此,我認為這些技術變革將有助於稱讚行業,並且將有助於也要提高我們的標準。它們將幫助我們最大程度地減少一些錯誤,並幫助我們提高效率。但是就估值而言,是的,估值的很大一部分是科學的,但估值也仍然是一門藝術。而且我不確定計算機模型是否能夠完全抓住了這一點。他們可能會做。但是我的想法是他們不會。因此,我認為對於人類測量師來說,總會有一個角色,但是技術無疑具有的巨大潛力,可以改變我們所知道的行業。 

Darren:是的。我的意思是,例如,有很多類似的產品可以方便AVM等測量員使用就像我記得當我聽說它的時候一樣,我就像“這太棒了,難以置信”。但是行業中的許多人會認為,嘿,可以在某些市場上使用AVM。不是所有的人。並不是所有的資產類別,商業廣告除了它之外沒有太多可比性。住宅區比較容易,但即使是重新分區或新開發項目也將大不相同。同時,有演習和一切。但是我相信驗船師有點像,神經元太多了,你不能只是擁有一台電腦就說,嘿,這是最好的結果。我相信有時會有更多的神經元不屬於其中一部分-因為我們共同的朋友加里(Gary)擁有一家名為inflow的創業公司。所以我看到了關於全球測量標準的客座帖子。對此感到遺憾,國家財產管理的標準,對此感到抱歉,然後您會介意向觀眾解釋這是怎麼回事,因為我對此很陌生,在行業中似乎是一個很大的話題。

Tom:是的。絕對。首先,我將簡要介紹一下您剛才說的內容關於AVM在香港某些市場也能更好地工作的情況,我們非常幸運。市場非常透明。有很多可比較的信息。其他市場也一樣,澳大利亞,英國也是如此。一些透明度較低的市場中的透明度很高的市場像菲律賓,越南,柬埔寨,緬甸。根本找不到任何可比較的信息。即使你做到了,你也不會對此充滿信心。您永遠不要拿到可以為這類市場找到的比較信息,並依靠它。這就是再次具有潛力的地方。它有潛力,但是仍然有很多問題。然後繼續討論下一個有關國際財產計量標準的問題。我將其稱為IPMS簡短。少說幾句,但實際上又是關於透明度和市場上可用的信息。所以在全球化之前,我想說沒關係,因為不同的市場會有一定的測量標準和測量建築物的方式已使用。很好,因為通常您不需要像今天一樣詳細地了解其他國家和市場。 我們現在遇到的問題是,如果您負責該指令,則是一家大型跨國公司的真正國家主管,則您負責屬性遍布全球。而且,如果您要比較的是房地產,通常我們首先要考慮的是房地產它有多大?多少平方英尺?每平方英尺多少錢?我可以租用每平方英尺租金,甚至可以低至其他運營成本通常會表示運行成本,您可能會說,運行這棟特定建築物的價格為每平方米30美元。一切都帶回大小。您需要多少空間?它再次下降到平方英尺。但是我們發現的問題之一可能是在最近才發現的10,15年前。但是他們看著-他們走的是同一棟辦公樓,完全一樣的地板。他們有來自世界各地的各種專業人士嘗試測量建築物並說出建築物的大小。他們發現,兩者之間的未報價區域相差25%專業人士,這是巨大的,這確實是巨大的。甚至不知道如何決定房地產和財產提供最基本的信息,使您能夠做到這一點。我們在市場上發現的是有人會來找我們,他們會說,好的,我們有100人,在英國,每100平方英尺有1人。所以這就是我們需要很多空間。但是,當您開始尋找空間時,可能是英國的市場規模比您所尋找的市場大25%在。因此,您實際上可能佔用的空間太小25%。而且我們已經看到這成為一個問題。你看到的是對於企業來說成本很高,因為它們無法從一開始就讓所有員工都適合辦公室,然後他們最終不得不搬一次,所以他們花了所有的錢去辦公室,然後他們在他們不得不繼續尋找更好,更大的建築物之前,只能在那裡租用一個租期。因此,為了幫助他們做出公平競爭的決策,入了真正的全球測量標準的想法開始了人們的生活自2016年1月起僅在辦公室設有辦事處。因此,到目前為止,我們還沒有看到大量的採用。但是如果您與特許測量師交談,這是他們會非常熟悉的事情,並且特許測量師應該能夠為您提供建築區域使用IPMS資產,因此它們應該能夠查看您在不同國家/地區的兩座建築物,並為您提供一致的測量標準,然後您就可以使用該標准進行決策。現在,我認為這對香港也很重要的原因之一,在香港尋找辦公場所時,您可以很快就對房東使用什麼測量基礎感到困惑。您會看到一些房東說這間辦公室的總面積為10,000平方英尺。這是10,000平方英尺的字母Bo。無論他們要使用哪種測量基礎,這都是1萬平方英尺。這是相當在大多數其他市場上是香港獨有的。使用相同度量基礎的所有房東不一定使用IPMS,但他們將使用相同度量基礎。但是在香港,比較某些建築物可能非常困難,因為它們是以不同的方式進行測量的。這絆倒了很多這裡的住戶也是如此,因為他們可能會說,好吧,我們看著這幢大樓的10,000平方英尺,所以在這幢大樓中必須相同。現在,這完全取決於他們使用的測量基礎。您可能會想,因為得到了租金,他們可能會說這是每平方英尺20港元。這棟建築的價格為HK $ 100每平方步行,想一想,這間便宜的建築物真是太好了,但實際上可能並非如此。您可能會為實際可實際使用的空間支付更多費用,因為他們使用的基準測量。因此,IPMS的真正意義在於提高透明度,讓居住者和決策者確切了解他們實際上在建築物中有很多空間。因此,這是非常重要的一步。

Darren:我知道,這聽起來很重要,對嗎?因此,假設您在整個行業中擁有大型的,廣為人知的廣播或聲音,那麼您如何告訴他們該標準將如何影響行業?我想問您更多有關您為什麼認為它尚未實施的問題?因為這聽起來像驗船師的觀點,所以聽起來甚至很合乎邏輯當我聽到它的完整描述時,到目前為止聽起來很合乎邏輯,但是到目前為止還沒有被採納嗎?

Tom: 是的,所以我認為IPMS是一項舉措。所以也許不是RICS的人最初的成員會喜歡哦,這不適用於我,我不需要使用它。甚至是RICS的人成員也是如此。目前仍然很難實施。其中很多都歸結為教育。所以許多客戶會說我們一直使用這種衡量基礎,這對我們來說很難向投資者解釋為什麼該地區突然發生變化,您現在告訴我,該物業比我們想像的要小10%。這就是困難。我認為那是作為測量師的角色之一是幫助提高我們客戶之間的意識,並向他們展示其好處,幫助他們感到更多也許對使用它感到舒適。還很早。正如我所說的,房地產行業的技術可以抗拒更改。因此,我認為這是您將開始看到更多前進的東西。儘管所有房東都可能需要一段時間使用此功能,可能永遠不會到達房東使用此功能的階段。但是我們應該處於一個位置,如果您僱用了特許測量師,他們將能夠為您提供建議。它們將為您提供正在查看的建築物的IPMS測量結果。他們可能需要自己重新測量。如果該信息不可用,但是應該向您提供這些信息,以幫助您做出決定。

Darren:我明白了,所以,我想今天您涵蓋了很多非常重要的信息,這些信息涉及測量師的工作,其未來,可以做什麼以及為什麼這樣做重要嗎?拿什麼您想讓觀眾擁有嗎?無論如何,也許會有散戶投資者,家族理財室。您為他們找到最佳的測量師或聘請測量師幫助他們的投資有哪些技巧?

Tom:謝謝,因此,首先,您需要確保您選擇的是正確的測量師。現在,測量師應該能夠分辨你馬上就走。例如,如果有人打電話給我說,嘿,我在尋找一些建議,我想在紐約購買一家購物中心澳大利亞,我會直截了當地說:“看,我沒有知識來協助您。但是,我可以將您推薦給具有該知識的同事。”因此,您要確保您使用的是正確的測量師,因此測量師應告訴您但是請查看他們的背景,他們所基於的位置以及他們的往績。看一下他們過去參與過哪些項目。確保您有最好的人為您提供建議。的這是絕對的關鍵,就是和他們聊天。解釋您期望的結果是什麼樣的。因此,測量師應該從一開始就對您說。好的,您目前的現實是什麼?您目前所處的位置是?現在您想要的現實是什麼?您希望它看起來如何?一旦我們走了通過項目,他們應該能夠在此為您提供一些信息,然後提供有關它們如何幫助您從當前現實變為理想現實的信息。但是我認為這實際上取決於專業知識。如果您沒有使用真正的專家。你不會得到全部物有所值。因此,您確實需要確保使用的人合適。而且我認為可能很難找到,但是通常,您想找到某個人在您正在工作的市場中,或者在該市場中有往績記錄。

Darren:我明白了。我的意思是,這就是 Denzity想要做的事情,因為我們認為,如果我們擁有更多的不同專家,例如不同類型的測量師,不同的經驗,不同的專業知識,那麼人們將花費更少的時間進行分類以找到專家。而且不會與您發生誤解或脫離接觸有人無法幫助您嗎?因此,對我來說,這總是很明顯的,很有意義,但很多投資者卻傾向於這樣做。所以我想說聲謝謝您的這段時間這是非常有用的信息,對於可能想要找到您的受眾群體,與您更多地談論您的服務,您如何建議他們與您聯繫?

Tom:是的,絕對是。所以我在 Linkedin上,所以您可以搜索Tom Parker MRICS。是。或Tom·帕克·科利爾(Tom Parker Collier),您應該以這種方式找到我。同樣,您可以給我發送電子郵件。總是非常響應電子郵件,並樂於與人們交談,即使他們也只是對如何進入該行業有疑問。所以我的電子郵件是Tom.Parker@Colliers.com。它們可能是聯繫並找到我的兩種主要方法。我確實為其他來源製作了大量的媒體,但本人目前不在社交媒體上。 

Darren:好的,很好。所以我將把所有內容都包含在演出記錄中,我想說聲謝謝您的光臨,這是我的榮幸,希望第二集可以再次加入我們,也許我會得到加里一起討論測量的未來,以及不同的觀察方式,再次感謝您的寶貴時間。謝謝。 

Tom:沒問題。謝謝,Darren。非常感謝。乾杯。

Darren:謝謝,再見。

Tom:再見。

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FAQ when purchasing Vietnam real estate

Vietnam real estate market is one of the favorites of Hong Kong investors. The property in Vietnam is relatively low yet it has great potentials.

When considering an investment in the oversea property market, Hongkongers tend to choose somewhere cheap and somewhere near, making the South East Asia property market a very popular choice. Among common choices like Malaysia real estate market and Thailand real estate market, Vietnam real estate market is one of the favorites of Hong Kong investors. The property price in Vietnam is relatively low yet the market has great potentials. Here are some of the FAQs about real estate equity investment in Vietnam.

Q: Can Hong Kong citizens purchase Vietnam real estate?

A: Yes and no. It is okay for foreigners to purchase real estate in Vietnam, yet foreigners cannot purchase the land. In other words, foreigners can only have land use right, but not land ownership. However, with more and more foreigners investing in Vietnam real estate market, the limitations concerning real estate equity investment for foreigners have been more lenient.

Q: Where can I find a real estate agent for Vietnam real estate equity investment?

A: To suit the needs of foreign investors, most Vietnam real estate agencies can be found online. However, some of the sites do not provide an English or Chinese translation, so there may be some communication barriers. In that case, you can check out Denzity’s directory to look for Vietnam real estate experts. With the brand-new search filters, you can easily sort out real estate experts who specialize in Vietnam real estate market.

Q: What kind of taxes and fees do I have to pay when investing in Vietnam real estate market?

A: It is more or less the same as in Hong Kong. Investors have to pay value-added tax and registration tax for ownership. If you intend to let your property out for rent, you also have to pay personal income tax. To ensure you don’t miss any important fees, you’re advised to consult a Vietnam real estate expert. Where to find one you ask? Denzity has an extensive selection of real estate experts all over the world specializing in different sectors like tax, rental issues, and even feng shui. We’re sure you can find one that suits your needs.

Q: Can I do a mortgage in Vietnam banks?

A: No. It is shockingly hard for foreigners to apply for a mortgage in Vietnam unless you’re married to a Vietnam citizen, or have oversea Vietnam citizenship. The most common practice will be an installment plan. Vietnam banks usually require buyers to travel to Vietnam and hand in the documents by person. Remember to keep all the bank records to protect yourself.

Q: Can I let my property for rent in Vietnam?

A: Yes. Yet if you’re in Hong Kong, note that the currency used in Vietnam VND is not a major currency in Hong Kong, so when you transfer the money back to Hong Kong, you may need to pay a higher transfer fee. This also applies to all the fees you have to pay when purchasing Vietnam real estate. Some of the banks and agencies don’t even accept USD. Do check twice with your real estate expert and compare the fees of different money transfer channels before you decide which one is the best for you.

Purchasing Vietnam real estate market is indeed a good investment choice. Yet, with the language barriers, it is preferred to find a real estate expert in Hong Kong specialized in Vietnam real estate market to assist you along the purchase process. Go to Denzity today and start your real estate equity investment journey!

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Featured on am730: Hong Kong Properties Are Seriously Unaffordable For Millennials

Original post on [In Chinese]: https://www.am730.com.hk/column/Workplace/%e7%b5%82%e6%a5%b5%e6%b5%b7%e5%a4%96%e7%89%a9%e6%a5%ad%e6%8a%95%e8%b3%87%e6%8c%87%e5%8d%97-232085

Hong Kong Properties Are Seriously Unaffordable For Millennials

Hong Kong people would agree that the dream of owning a home is challenging for most millennials. On top of the land shortage, the increasing cost of living has taken away millennials’ dream to save up for their dream home. Even though this news wouldn’t surprise many people, how bad has the situation become? According to the annual Demographia Housing Affordability Survey, Hong Kong is the most expensive city to live in – 10th consecutive years! The status is unlikely to be toppled soon. A Hong Kong family would need to save up for almost 21 years, which is around twice the time needed for the runner ups, to afford a home in the city. What’s worse? Our Hong Kong Foundation, a think tank established by former chief executive Tung Chee-Hwa, predicts the average flat size will contract further to less than 430 sq. ft in the next few years, accounting for 45 percent of private housing supply in 2019. Imagine a 400 sq. ft space is roughly the size of a typical two-car garage – there is barely any wiggle room left with a kitchen, bathroom, and a single-bed mattress!

These conditions not only have caused bad living standards for millennials but their financial status is also in a tough situation. According to Numbeo (a research and data site), a single Hong Kong person’s monthly cost is no less than HKD 8,000. With an average monthly rent of more than HKD 10,000 for a 400 sq. ft flat, millennials might only have a few thousand left for savings. With all the increasing expenditures for daily necessities and expensive living costs, millennials barely save any to invest in Hong Kong real estate. It is time to rethink, “Is there a better place to invest in real estate?”, and “Is Hong Kong suitable for real estate investments?”

With social unrest and the COVID-19 pandemic, Hong Kong millennials grow interests in Southeast Asian real estate markets, such as the Malaysia real estate market and the Vietnam real estate market. They feel Southeast Asian countries have a better economic environment, while barriers to participating in real estate investing are lower than most emerging markets. According to Global Property Guide, the average price per sq. ft in Hong Kong is HKD 20,570, while average prices per sq. ft in Malaysia and Vietnam are HKD 2,480 and HKD 1,643. Purchasing a Hong Kong property costs almost ten times more expensive than that in other Southeast Asian countries! No wonder that Hong Kong millennials have decided to look elsewhere.

Hong Kong millennials must realize that there are plenty of real estate investment opportunities outside of Hong Kong waiting for them to discover. With the rise of PropTech, investors can now be more accessible to global real estate investment opportunities and have a better-informed decision to put their hard-earned savings to work. With our platform (https://denzity.io/), we let investors focus on what matters most: getting a better sense of where, what, and how to invest in real estate worldwide that they have never thought of before effortlessly.

香港80後嚴重付不起物業

香港人會同意夢想擁有房產對於香港80後非常困難的。除了土地短缺,生活成本的上漲更是奪走了80後為自己夢想家園儲蓄的夢想。雖然這些都不會讓很多人驚訝,可是情況會變得有多差?根據每年Demographia Housing Affordability Survey,香港連續十年成為生活最昂貴的城市!而且,這情況近期不會被推翻。一個香港家庭需要儲蓄21年才能在自己城市負擔起自己的房子,是其他國度城市人需要的兩倍時間。團結香港資金,一個前特首智董建華創立的囊團,預計未來幾年平均單位面積將縮小至430平方英尺以下,佔2019私人住房供應的45%。想像一個400平方英尺的空間相等於兩個標準車庫 — 裝進廚房、浴室和單人床床墊後也幾乎沒有擺動空間!

這些條件不但導致80後生活水平惡劣,而且在財務狀況也面臨嚴峻問題。根據Numbeo,一位香港人每月費用不少於 HKD 8000。對於一個400平方英尺的房子,平均每月租金超過 HKD10000,80後可能只剩下幾千塊錢儲蓄。隨著日用指出昂貴和生活費用增加,80後不可能積蓄任何錢投資香港房產。是時候重新考慮:「有更好的地方投資房產嗎?香港真的適合房產物業投資嗎?」

因為社會動盪與新冠病毒大流行,香港80後對於東南亞房產市場感興趣,如馬來西亞與越南的房產市場。他們覺得東南亞國家的經濟環境比較好,而且投資房地產的門檻比起其他新興市場還要低。根據Global Property Guide,香港物業每平方英尺平均價格HKD 20,570,而馬來西亞與越南物業則每平方英尺平均價格分別為HKD 2,480和HKD 1,643。在香港購買物業的價格是東南亞國家的十倍!難怪香港80後決定把目光鎖定其他地區。


香港80後必須知道香港以外還有很多房產投資機會等待他們去發現。隨著房產科技的興起,投資者現在可以更方便獲得全球房產投資機會與作出更明智的決定,將辛苦積累的金錢投資。通過我們的平台(https://denzity.io/),投資者會專注最重要的事情:探索他們想投資什麼、投資哪裡、怎麼輕鬆的投資全球海外房產。

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Hong Kong Commercial Leasing with Cydon Choi


Hong Kong Commercial Leasing With Cydon Choi

Connect with Cydon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cydon/

We have Cydon to share his insights on Hong Kong’s commercial real estate leasing market. Even though the city has been undergoing a lot of ups and downs. He feels there will be many opportunities up ahead.

Cydon Choi is the Senior Manager at JLL. He advises international and local clients on strategy and negotiations in the Hong Kong commercial real estate space.

  • How is commercial leasing different from residential?
  • What do the landlords look for in a tenant?
  • Which areas are tenants more attracted to?
  • What is the future of the Hong Kong commercial leasing market?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

Source:

Commercial leasing broker: A commercial leasing broker is basically a middle man that brings landowners and tenants together and assist them with the whole leasing procedure.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/businessideas/leasing-broker

COVID-19: Current ongoing global pandemic.

https://www.who.int/

Rental concession: A rental concession can be a gift, a discount or any kind of goods or services provided to the tenant from the landlord, out of a contract. It is usually for a short period of time.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/rental-concessions-4172961

Rental deferment: Rent deferment allows tenants to postpone paying rents to a certain period of time, under certain conditions.

Coworking: Coworking is a cost efficient way for workers from different companies to work in a shared office space.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/coworking

Coliving: Coliving is a concept typically adopted by the youth to live in a full-furnished residence with private rooms and shared common spaces.

https://coliving.com/what-is-coliving

Coretail: Coretailing is when entities share a space as a retailing store.

Subdivided apartment: The subdivision of flats or apartments into several units is known as a subdivided apartment.

https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/safety-inspection/ubw/UBW-in-sub-divided-flats/index_ubw_subflat_intro.html

Swire: https://www.swire.com/en/global/home.php

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

Transcript:

Darren: So hey Cydon. Hey, how’s it going, man?

Cydon: Very good. Thanks.

Darren: Yeah. First of all, thanks for coming in. And then even for myself right, I have work in, you know, as a buy side in real estate – commercial space, but I have never understood, you know, for example your side of Hong Kong leasing, the scope and what’s going on there. So it’d be great to have you tell people, the audience – myself included more about what you do and what opinions you have with the markets currently.

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, first of all, do you want me to do an introduction of myself or just dive right into it?

Darren: Sure.

Cydon: Yeah. Well, my name is Cydon and thanks for having me, Darren. So I’ve been in the commercial real estate space for about almost coming up to four years now. Before Hong Kong, before I moved to Hong Kong four years ago, I working in fast moving consumer goods. So with companies like Unilever, Clorox, and then make the move to Hong Kong four years ago where I started in the commercial real estate space with with an agency called Colliers. And then right after about two years, I joined Jones Lang LaSalle (JLL), also in the commercial real estate commercial leasing side and so here I am today.

Darren: There you go. And here we are. So first of all right, would you mind telling the audience what’s the scope for commercial leasing agents? And what are the things that you would do to date?

Cydon: Sure, well as commercial leasing brokers, what we are essentially is we are the clients most accountable person all the way from the beginning to finding an office and to all the way to the end of actually leasing the space and coming back to the terms and the conditions of the lease. So what I mean by this is we start with a discovery process usually of identifying what is the client’s organization. So, for example, if you are a company or a subsidiary, what your needs are, what the amount of space you need is, what district, what building quality, what proximity to partners and to other clients of yours that you need be, needing to be close to. So these are all factors in the very beginning of the search and then throughout the process, we then help you short list. And then finally pick the short listed and final buildings for us to negotiate on. So the final process of this would be to actually negotiate and to actually come to the best and final terms and conditions for the clients. And then that will close out the transaction after they move in.

Darren: I see. So I’m sure a lot of audience might be more familiar with residential like they have their own house. You know, they have investments , they have that kind of residential leasing. So what are some key leasing terms that is different when comparing from commercial to residential?

Cydon: That’s a good question. Yeah, because we most of us are most familiar with residential leases just from our daily exposure. I’ll say one of the main differences is the length of the contract term. The most common contract term for residential leases that we find in Hong Kong usually are one year fixed and then plus one more year of what we call flexibility. And this just means a renewal. And then after this term, your contract is on a month to month basis with the landlord and for commercial leases, usually they are around two to three years at least – three years being the most common. And in terms of the actual terms, the conditions and the clauses within these contracts, the residential leases, usually around three or four pages, would cover most of the conditions that you would actually sign on to. For commercial leases, it’s a lot more complex and there’s a lot more terms and clauses that covers the liabilities and protects the liabilities of the landlords as well. And so they can range up to something like 80 to 100 pages even. So those would be the quickest differences, I would say, between these two.

Darren: I see. I see. Yeah, I’m sure like, if someone has stay for so such a long time, it’s not only a year or two years, maybe up to three, four or five, six years right. And then I guess the leasing is going to be more expensive as well. I’m sure the landlord will want to know more about the tenant, more covenants behind that. So, in that regard right, what are some key things that like a commercial landlord will want to know about the tenants?

Cydon: Well, let’s be honest. Number one most important thing is whether or not a tenant can pay rent on time. I’d say that’s probably most of their concern.

Darren: That’s the most important thing.

Cydon: Exactly. It all comes down to money at the end of the day. So that’s what we kind of mean when we say a tenants covenant. So how secure this tenant is within the market, within the office market and how secure their ability to pay rent is. So, this is definitely top of mind for a landlord when it comes to finding a tenant. But there are also several factors that come into play when a landlord considers a tenant. One of them being the tenant profile. So how reputable is their name? Are they right for the building? You know, if they are a banking client? Are you really going to go into a building that’s full of, let’s say, media and tech companies? That’s probably not the right fit as well. So the very background and the industry nature of the tenants is very important to the landlord. And also one more thing is the growth as well. Landlords do love tenants that naturally have more hunger for space overtime as they go because who doesn’t want a tenant inside that eventually just wants more and more space and ends up leasing more and more of the building over time. So this is also a scenario that the landlord will consider whenever they look for things like Forkan,.

Darren: So on regard of like for the landlord to understand if the tenant can pay or not right, what are some kind of documents would a tenant usually need to provide no matter what to a landlord in order to prove that tenant can pay the landlord?

Cydon: Right. So the two most important documents that are the most commonly accepted by the landlord is the B.R. and the A.R. B.R., being the business registration. This one, basically, any type of business entity in Hong Kong would have on file. The other one is the annual return or the A.R. So this document proves how much the share value is and how much income, how much cash flow and how cash positive a business is. So this is usually a crucial document that the landlord will use to decide whether or not this tenant has enough covenants or enough ability to actually pay rent for the long term. So this will be the most important.

Darren: So let’s say if the tenant is not from Hong Kong, don’t necessarily have B.R is there something that you know, I’m sure you have more experience than me, what kind of stuff do they need to supply – the tenants that maybe oversea tenants that say, “hey, that’s my first presence in Hong Kong and I really want some type of good space,” so what kind of stuff would the landlord ask for to make sure that, you know, even though you’re miles away from HQ I would still want to lease out to you if you’re comfortable with it.

Cydon: Yeah. So unfortunately the Hong Kong real estate industry is still very archaic in terms of the amount of paperwork and documents and a very traditional way of mailing and stamping documents. This is still very, very much prevalent in the Hong Kong real estate industry. So unfortunately for oversea clients that are coming to Hong Kong, what they will really need to do is to set up a presence in Hong Kong so they’ll actually need to register under the Hong Kong Companies Registry. So they have already a registered presence here in Hong Kong. What they can do, though, is because they haven’t conducted business in Hong Kong, they could use overseas support, for example, very simply how much cash they have in, you know, in their corporate accounts. If they can prove anything to the landlord that they are a cash positive commercial tenant, then the landlord might actually consider moving forward with a lease, even without concrete Hong Kong proof that they have, an account here or with anything. It very much is still a very archaic type of system here. So very traditional still.

Darren: I sense some anger in there. We’re talking about paperwork and archaic, so I can sense how annoying things are if that’s the case.

Cydon: That’s right.

Darren: Yeah. So moving on right because I have so many questions to be honest. Like I wish this video can go longer. There’s a couple of questions in my head. I mean I talk to you a lot, but there’s always questions I have with real estate right. So like,you know, we’re all kind of in recession right now. And you know, I’m sure a lot tenants which there are a lot of people that we know that have tenants or they’re leasing somewhere that needs help. What are some things that you think landlords can do to help tenants out a little bit?

Cydon: So, unfortunately, like I said before, the landlords here in Hong Kong are quite traditional. Usually they’re not very flexible when it comes to rental terms or what we call concessions or relief. But what we’re seeing after three months of protest and after months of the Corona virus situation is that more and more landlords are now a little bit more open to what we call rental concessions, which can include rental relief. So maybe temporarily reducing the rental to help businesses, you know, kind of go through the hard times. But also we have negotiated or are negotiating terms like rental deferments, for example. Rental deferments would include simply delaying a rental payment or delaying certain months of payments until a certain time when, you know, when the conditions of the market recover for the business. I mean, this is obviously done on a very case by case basis. It really depends on how flexible the landlord is and how sympathetic they are to a tenant situation. But it also depends on the tenants nature of business as well. If you’re a semi retail tenant but, you know, due to the Corona virus, you could not have anyone come and there is absolutely no revenue whatsoever, I believe that is a very strong case to plea to the landlord for rental relief. But if you are a company that you’re able to really work from home most of the time and you can function and still bring in revenue over the course of this virus situation with a protest situation, then perhaps the landlord would not have that much flexibility for you. But I mean, aside from these, though, I would say that landlords can do a few things here and there, even without adjusting the rentals. Things are, for example, even simply as freezing or controlling the management fees. The management fee is something that every tenant in the building will have to pay. And usually this is by a per square foot basis that’s fixed. So something like a fixed costs like this, the landlord might be able to that’s a temporarily reduce it or control it so that at least the tenant will be able to to stabilize their costs over hard times. But I guess the other most important thing is that landlords should continue to upkeep their buildings as well to make sure that, you know, that right amount of talent and the right amount of traffic are still going into the building and out of the building because this is the only way for a business just to continue to bring in revenue. So I believe if landlords are able to do most of these or are at least flexible in some of these, then this will really help out some tenants during tough times like a recession.

Darren: Yeah, it sounds you know, like how we are in Hong Kong for the past one year almost, right? Yeah. It has been a really tough time. It’s really tough. So, you know, I’m sure landlords wants to have rental income and everything, but I think you need some help for the tenant, because that’s how we work together in Hong Kong. You know, join forces and stuff like that. So like I know that Covid-19 has a big topic. Everyone really uncertainty because they don’t know what’s going on. But beside that or include that, how do you feel the leasing market have evolved since you have been around for quite some time in this industry? I just want to know your opinion because no one really talks about, you know, the broker side or the leasing side, what’s going on, you know, how are these things turning to be or even outlook in the future, how is going to be?

Cydon: Right. I mean, this is a very, very complex situation that we’re in. There are so many underlying factors that are so variable in the market right now. But there are a few things that I think are going to prolong the sustainability of the Hong Kong – sorry, Hong Kong commercial real estate market. One is that even through any type of political or virus situation, such as what we just saw with the global financial crisis before and what we saw with the SARS virus before, hong Kong has always had a very quick recovery to these type of outbreaks or these type of significant events. And so I really don’t think that the Corona virus situation or the protest situation is really anything different. If anything, this might be a more prolonged nature of it. And the other thing is Hong Kong will still remain an important hub for commercial transactions and activity. A lot of MNC still think that Hong Kong is one of the best places in Asia to have their headquarters or APAC headquarters and also the developers here in Hong Kong are also very bullish on the outlook of Hong Kong. So not only are they cash rich, they are able to invest a lot and continue to invest in buildings and building up new projects and new infrastructure in the city. I mean that coupled with the fact that Hong Kong will always have a lack of land as one of the major issues being said, there are going to be many, many more creative ways that I believe developers will be able to develop projects. One of the things is that there are many concepts outside in the world right now in different cities where certain buildings are no longer purely for residential or purely for commercial. Some of them are, you know, cold living or coworking. And then some of them will have different types of amenities, all in the same building. So these are two types of new concepts that Hong Kong has the potential to explore. And Hong Kong has the potential to actually invest and built these type of developments. And so I think the leasing market will evolve to the point where a broker would not simply be just brokering an office space in an office building. We might be selling an entire type of different type of environment. The office might be within a coworking space, which is within a building which has co-living elements or different type of retail elements with different type of wellness elements, all within one giant type of an ecosystem, more environment. And I think this is where the leasing market might evolve to in the near future.

Darren: That’s cool. So it seems like what I’m getting at is that the asset itself, tend in the past tend to be a really specific type. For example a building might be pure residential, pure, you know, retail or whatever. But then obviously there are different types of tenants now. There are coworking, co-living and there’s a mixture of stuff, and the ecosystem now, it seems like the buildings have their own ecosystem to help each other so it’s no longer to be one type, you know, vanilla, just plain one type of asset. So with that right, because I know that everyone talks about coworking space, you know, the whole Wework thing and so on. It’s something that I’m sure like, you know, we’re all just guessing, what’s going on as feelings. In your point of view right, in Hong Kong co-living is a really big topic with the housing problems and stuff like that. I know you’re in commercial real estate, but kind of touched together, how do you feel about that industry, like getting along in the next couple years and then do you think those mechanisms are going to save Hong Kong or help Hong Kong a little bit on leasing?

Cydon: See co-living, I know there have been many types of developers and different types of businesses that have tried to launch co-living spaces here in Hong Kong. Some of them have been successful, but most of them have not. And I believe one of the main reasons is because the concept of co-living is still very foreign to a city like Hong Kong. And also the fact that, yes, land cost is extremely expensive and therefore the per square footage of whatever living space you’re living at will be extremely expensive either way. So I believe the cost differential between a regular, let’s say, subdivided apartment really wouldn’t be that different from a co-living type of environment. So, I mean, do I see co-living, you know, like skyrocketing out into a trend very quickly? I don’t think so. I think this will be a much more slower trend to develop here in Hong Kong when Hong Kong locals and expats start developing an appetite or at least an open mind to this type of concept.

Darren: So that’s co-living, how about like coworking or co-retail in Hong Kong. How do you feel about that?

Cydon: I think coworking definitely has a lot of potential here in Hong Kong. However, coworking spaces usually you attract two type of tenants. One is for startups. So for smaller startups who need office space immediately, but do not have the, let’s say, upfront capex to actually fit out a brand new office and to commit to a to a lease term, let’s say, for three years for a traditional office. So this will be a good target as well. And you know, they can range from one or two people as a business up to maybe like five or ten. And the other type of tenants that would be going to coworking spaces would be and what we call enterprise clients. So they might your HSBCs, they might be your standard charter. They might be these subsidiaries of these banks that focus on let’s say on technology, on media, on digital. And these are the type of teams that would actually take up a lot of space within the coworking, within the coworking operator, which is what Wework has done in the past here in Hong Kong. It’s unfortunate that Wework, the expansion was so quick that I believe in the past year a lot of its expansion had to be halted and had to be held back in the last few months. But I do believe that the demand is still there. We just do not have the same growth in terms of startups as some of the mainland cities like Shenzhen, for example. In terms of the explosive growth of the number of startups, Hong Kong is still lagging behind and so this is one of the major sources of the demand for coworking spaces. So I think, yeah, this is unfortunately, Hong Kong might not be the the most bullish market in terms of coworking spaces.

Darren: How about co-retail really quick? Just because it’s something that I felt a lot people, you know, we know local people who has done that kind of space before and I just want to know co-retail because it seems like no one really tapped into that market or there hasn’t been any boom going on.

Cydon: Right. So co-retail, unfortunately, it started picking up actually about two or three years ago when pop ups became a relatively new concept that people were open to. Unfortunately, again, the Hong Kong market is very traditional and a lot of businesses are very scared to try new concepts. We’re not we’re not a very forward thinking city. So unfortunately, some of these spaces might be empty for many months, even though it’s completely open for these type of co-retail concepts. But again, over the last couple of years, there hasn’t really been a very strong open mind or appetite for this type of space. So this is something that, again, Hong Kong will have to start educating and maybe providing incentives for these type of businesses to try out these type of co-retail concepts and find out for themselves that there are actually benefits to reap from these type of concepts.

Darren: Yeah, after listening to you, in my mind it’s like, I guess it’s time for the landlord to be like “hey, let’s try something new. Let’s help each other,” you know like, you never know it’s still wild wild west in my mind, right? So I have one more question left and then just more about, you know, talk more about something that I’m sure you are aware of, what are some areas in Hong Kong that you think tenants are more attracted to? And what type of new tenants are coming in for the past couple years or possible months or even you think foreseeable couple of months?

Cydon: Right. I think there are two districts in Hong Kong that are the hottest topic whenever it comes to commercial leasing, and that’s Hong Kong Islands East and also Kowloon East. So Hong Kong Island East would be where Tiku type of places. It’s basically where Swire’s kingdom is. Why we call Swire’s kingdom is because Swire basically owns all the commercial property within the entire Tiku Place portfolio, but also the City Plaza portfolio, just one station away. The reason why this is a district to kind of pay attention to is because there are so many new commercial developments there. There are brand new buildings coming out, basically every one or two years in this district, all managed and owned by Swire, all operated by Swire. So you understand that Swire is a very reputable landlord with very, very high quality specifications in all of their buildings. So this is a very, very attractive type of offering for office tenants looking for brand new relocation options. The most important part is its proximity to away from central or Admiralty. I mean, we’re talking a few stations away and even by car it’s only about ten to fifteen minutes max. So it’s a no brainer why there are so many tenants that are moving eastward into this type of district. And some of the major sectors that have moved in here includes legal so some of the law firms that are traditionally in Central and Admiralty actually have moved eastward into Tiku place. Some other traits include some financial institutions that normally would be in Central and Admiralty, but again, have found a place and found the Swire’s Tiku Place portfolio to be a very, very attractive relocation option. The other district would be Kowloon East.

Cydon: So Kowloon East was the second district that I mentioned. The reason why I mentioned Kowloon East is because there are many brand new triple grade A buildings that are being built in that area and landlords are offering very attractive incentives and packages to tenants that are willing to relocate to that area. So Kowloon East more specifically would include Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, which are always and always happen very traditionally industrial areas not really known for its offices. So this area actually had many years over the past little while to actually build up a reputation, to have some of the best office buildings in the city. The most important part, too, is the rental difference, really between the options in Highlands East and Kowloon East, because you have central rents that are averaging over HK$100, let’s say per square foot for a grade A building. And then if you move a little eastward into Highlands East, then you’d be paying maybe around HK$50 per square foot, that’s already half the price, and if you move over to districts like Kowloon East, which includes Kowloon Bay and Kwun Tong, you might be slashing that by half again to around let’s say HK$25 even tops, at tops HK$30 a square foot. And again these are brand new office buildings that are very high in specifications. So yeah, I think these are the two districts to really look out for.

Darren: It’s funny because like Swire right, whenever I go there. I’m just like “this whole area is a Swire kingdom,” when you said it’s a Swire kingdom I was like “Yes, that’s true. But I love Swire kingdom – I’m like a fanboy, like their stuff is really good. No, it’s so convenient. Everything around the area is like – I feel like I should get advertising costs from them, but I really like the area. I hope so. I don’t get paid for it for sure. But I think there’s a lot of interesting things that we covered up. What kind of take away would you want to give to the audience before you go?

Cydon: I would say one would be, despite everything that has happened in the past, in the past year, that has really shaken the confidence of a lot of investors and on a lot of people in Hong Kong, especially when it comes to the real estate market, is that there really is no doubt that Hong Kong real estate will still have a lot of value to play in the future because there is still a lot of potential here. The factors I mentioned before, such as lack of land, we also have very ambitious landlords with very deep pockets and also the ever changing, ever evolving, working and living demands of the people that are here in Hong Kong, but also coming in and out of Hong Kong. I mean, these many factories will keep driving many exciting initiatives that I think are going to happen in the commercial real estate space, especially when it comes to new developments and new concepts that will emerge over the next few years. So it is an opportunity and it is up to us, the next generation, to kind of step up and create these opportunities and kind of lead the city with it.

Darren: For sure. That’s a really good take away. Thank you. That was actually really good. So for the audience that wants to know more and reach out to you to learn more about the Hong Kong leasing markets, how would people reach out to you and talk to you and stuff like that?

Cydon: Sure. Yeah. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn. There really should only be one Cydon Choi that works at JLL, so it should be relatively easy to find.

Darren: I don’t think there will be another Cydon Choi out there so I think you’ll be fine.

Cydon: I really hope so. I really don’t think so. You’re right. So yeah, you can feel free to find me on LinkedIn, shoot me a message, or if you have any specific inquiries regarding commercial real estate spaces or any needs. You can also email me at my JLL email, which I’ll provide to Darren afterwards. And also, there are some good resources out there that are from JLL but also from other big agencies such as CBRE, Colliers. And we always will include quarterly reports and we send it to any type of tenants and we send it to the bottom market. I think these are very good resources to learn about different sectors of commercial real estate space as well. They can include office, retail, industrial, if you’re a residential person, yeah these things will be really good resources to kind of reference upon.

Darren: Yeah, if you don’t mind, I think I after this recording I’ll ask you for some kind of links and everything. And then I just want to say thanks a lot man. Thanks for coming in and then thanks a lot for telling me and the audience more about what’s going on because it’s something in our minds like not everyone thinks about real estate every day, but for people who do, you know, they think about it like, “Oh, my God. What’s going on out there? What’s the place to go?” So I really appreciate your time and thanks so much for being part of the show.

Cydon: No problem. Thank you for having me Darren, Cheers.

Darren: Yeah, thanks so much and have a good one then. See you later.

Cydon: You too, take care.

Darren: Bye bye.

Darren:嘿,Cydon。你好嗎?

Cydon:很好。謝謝。

Darren:是的。首先,謝謝你加入。甚至對我自己來說,在房地產行業做買家-商業房地產空間,但我從來就不瞭解,你知道,例如,你在香港的租賃,範圍和發生了什麼。你能告訴我就太好了人們,觀眾-我自己也包括了更多關於你現在做什麼和你對市場的看法。

Cydon:當然。是啊。首先,你想讓我做一個自我介紹,還是直接投入進去?

Darren:當然。

Cydon:是的。好吧,我叫Cydon,謝謝你邀請我,Darren。我一直在商業房地產的空間差不多要到四年了。在香港之前,在我四年前搬到香港之前,我快速移動消費品。囙此,與Unilever、Clorox這樣的公司合作,然後在四年內轉移到香港之前,我在一家名為Colliers的仲介公司開始了商業地產領域的工作。大約兩年後,我加入了仲量聯行(Jones Lang LaSalle)[JLL],也在商業地產商業租賃方面,我今天就來了。

Darren:現在。首先,你能告訴觀眾商業租賃代理的範圍是什麼嗎?你會做些什麼?

Cydon:當然,作為商業租賃經紀人,我們本質上是客戶最負責任的人,從開始到找到辦公室,一直到實際租賃空間和返回租賃條款和條件。我的意思是我們從一個發現開始識別客戶組織的過程。例如,如果你是一家公司或子公司,您的需求是什麼,您需要多少空間,什麼區域,什麼建築質量,離合作夥伴有多近和其他你需要的客戶,需要親近的客戶。所以這些都是蒐索開始時的所有因素然後在整個過程中,我們會幫助您完成短名單。最後挑選出最終的候選建築供我們談判。所以最後的過程是進行真正的談判並最終達成客戶。然後在他們搬進來之後就結束了交易。

Darren:我明白了。所以我相信很多觀眾可能更熟悉住宅區就像他們有自己的房子一樣。你知道,他們有投資,有那種住宅租賃。那麼,當從商業租賃到住宅租賃時,哪些關鍵租賃條款有所不同?

Cydon:這是個好問題。是的,因為我們大多數人對住宅租賃最熟悉,僅僅是從我們的日常接觸。我要說的一個主要區別是合同期限的長短。最常見的契约條款我們在香港發現的住宅租賃通常是一年固定的,然後再加上一年的彈性。以及這只意味著續約。在這個期限之後,你和房東的契约是逐月的商業租賃,通常至少為2-3年,最常見的是3年。從實際情況來看條款、條件和這些契约中的條款,住宅租約,通常大約有三到四頁,將涵蓋大部分條件您將實際登入的。對於商業租賃來說,這要複雜得多,而且有更多的條款和條款包括責任和保護房東的責任。所以它們的範圍甚至可以達到80到100頁。所以我想說,這將是這兩者之間最快的區別。

Darren:我明白了。我懂了。是的,我確信,如果有人在這裡住了這麼長時間,那就不僅僅是一年或兩年,也許最多也就3年、4年或5年、6年了。我想租賃費也會更貴。我確信房東會想瞭解更多關於房客的資訊,以及背後的契約。那麼,在這方面,像一個商業房東[00:05:10]想瞭解房客的一些關鍵事情是什麼?

Cydon:好吧,說實話。第一件最重要的事是房客能否按時付房租。我認為這可能是他們最關心的問題。

Darren:這是最重要的。

Cydon:沒錯。歸根結底都是錢。所以這就是我們說的房客的意思契約。所以這個租戶在市場上,在辦公大樓市場裏有多安全,他們支付租金的能力有多安全。所以,對於房東來說,這絕對是找房客的首要考慮。但是當房東認為是房客。其中一個是租戶檔案。那麼他們的名聲有多好?他們對大樓合適嗎?你知道的,如果他們是銀行客戶?你真的要去一個充滿媒體和科技公司的大樓嗎?那可能不太合適也是。所以租戶的背景和行業性質對房東來說非常重要。還有一件事也是增長。房東確實喜歡房客,他們自然更渴望加班加點他們之所以這樣做,是因為誰不想讓一個最終只想擁有越來越多空間、最終租賃越來越多房屋的租戶入住。所以這也是房東在尋找像福肯這樣的東西時會考慮的一個場景。

Darren: 所以對於房東來說,為了讓他們瞭解承租人是否能够支付或不正確,承租人通常需要什麼樣的檔案向房東提供任何東西,以證明承租人可以向房東付款?

Cydon:對。所以房東最普遍接受的兩個最重要的檔案是商業登記證和商業登記證。這一家,基本上是香港任何類型的商業實體孔會被立案的。另一個是年收益率或A.R.所以這份檔案證明了股票的價值一個企業有多少收入,多少現金流,有多積極。所以這通常是房東將要用於確定承租人是否有足够的契約或足够的能力支付長期租金。所以這將是最重要的。

Darren:如果房客不是香港人,就不一定有B.R。你知道嗎,我相信你比我更有經驗,他們需要提供什麼樣的東西?那些租客可能會說,“嘿,這是我第一次來香港,我真的想要一些類型的東西好的空間,“那麼房東會要求什麼樣的東西來確保,你知道,即使你離總部幾英里遠,如果你對它感到舒適,我還是想租給你。

Cydon:是的。不幸的是,香港房地產業在大量的文書工作和檔案以及非常傳統的郵寄和蓋章管道。這在香港房地產業。囙此,對於即將來港的海外客戶來說,不幸的是,他們真正需要做的是在香港設立辦事處,以便他們真正需要在香港公司注册處注册。所以他們已經在香港注册了。他們能做什麼,不過,因為他們沒有在香港開展業務,所以他們可以利用海外支持,例如,他們有多少現金在他們的公司帳戶裏。如果他們能向房東證明他們是現金充裕的商業租戶,那麼房東可能會考慮繼續租賃,即使沒有具體的香港證明,他們在這裡有帳戶或有任何東西。它在這裡,很多仍然是一種非常古老的系統類型。還是很傳統的。

Darren:我感覺到裡面有些憤怒。我們討論的是文書工作和古董,所以如果是這樣的話,我能感覺到事情有多煩人。

Cydon:沒錯。

Darren:是的。我有很多問題要問。我希望這段視頻能放得更長。我腦子裏有幾個問題。我是說我和你談了很多,但我對房地產總是有疑問。所以你呢知道嗎,我們現在都處在經濟衰退之中。你知道,我相信有很多房客,我們知道有很多人有租客或者他們租了個需要幫助的地方。你認為房東可以做些什麼來幫助房客解决一些問題?

Cydon:所以,不幸的是,就像我之前說的,香港的房東很傳統。通常他們在租賃條件上不太靈活或者我們所說的讓步或救濟。但是在三個月的抗議和數月的日冕病毒事件之後,我們看到的是現在越來越多的房東對我們所說的租房優惠政策更加開放,包括租房减免。所以也許吧暫時降低租金以幫助企業渡過難關。但我們也已經協商過了例如,談判租金延期等條款。租金延期包括延遲支付租金或延遲支付租金某些月份的付款,直到某個特定的時間,你知道,當市場的條件恢復業務。我是說,這個顯然是在個案基礎上完成的。這實際上取決於房東有多靈活,以及他們對房客有多同情情况。但這也取決於租戶的業務性質。如果你是一個半零售租戶,但是,你知道,由於冠狀病毒,你可以沒有人來,也沒有任何收入,我認為這是一個非常有力的理由,可以向房東請求减免租金。但如果你是你可以在家裡工作的公司,你可以在這種病毒的情况下,在抗議的情况下,仍然可以繼續工作並帶來收入,那麼也許房東對你沒有那麼大的靈活性。但我的意思是,除了這些,我想說房東可以在這裡或那裡做一些事情,即使不調整租金。例如,事情甚至是簡單的凍結或控制管理費。管理費是大樓裏每個租戶都必須支付的費用。通常這是以每平方英尺為基礎的,是固定的。像這樣的固定成本,房東也許可以暫時降低或控制它,這樣至少承租人可以在困難時期穩定成本。但我想另一件最重要的事是房東應該繼續維護他們的建築,以確保,你知道,適當數量的人才和適當的交通量仍然在進出大樓,因為這是企業繼續帶來收入的唯一途徑。所以我相信如果房東有能力要做到這一點,或者至少在其中一些方面保持靈活性,那麼在經濟衰退等艱難時期,這將真正幫助一些租戶。

Darren:是的,聽起來你知道,就像過去一年我們在香港的情况一樣,對吧?是啊。這段時間真的很艱難。真的很難。那麼,你呢我知道,房東希望有租金收入和一切,但我認為你需要一些幫助來幫助房客,因為這就是我們在香港的合作方式。你知道,聯手什麼的。所以我知道Covid-19有一個很大的話題。每個人都不確定,因為他們不知道發生了什麼。但除此之外,你覺得租賃市場在這個行業已經有一段時間了,有什麼變化?我只想知道你的意見,因為沒人會說話關於,你知道,經紀方還是租賃方,發生了什麼,你知道,這些事情會變成什麼樣子,甚至是未來的前景,會怎麼樣?

Cydon:對。我是說,這是一個非常非常複雜的情况。市場上有太多的潜在因素是如此多變現在。但我認為有一些事情會延長香港的可持續性——對不起,香港商業房地產市場。其一,即使在任何一種政治或病毒的情况下,例如我們剛剛看到的全球金融危機[00:14:40]和我們之前看到的非典病毒,香港對這類或這類疫情的恢復總是非常快的重大事件。所以我真的不認為柯洛納病毒事件或者抗議事件真的任何不同的東西。如果有的話,這可能是一個更持久的性質。另一方面,香港仍然是重要的商業交易中心活動。許多跨國公司仍然認為香港是亞洲設立總部或亞太區總部的最佳地點之一香港的開發商也非常看好香港的前景。所以不是只有現金充裕,他們才有能力大量投資,並繼續投資於建築和新建房屋都市的項目和新的基礎設施。我的意思是,再加上香港永遠會有土地不足的問題儘管如此,我相信開發人員將能够開發專案,但會有許多、許多更具創造性的方法。其中之一就是現在世界上有很多概念,在不同的都市,某些建築不再是純粹的住宅或用於商業。他們中的一些人,你知道,共生活或是共事。然後他們中的一些會有不同類型的設施,都在同一棟樓裏。所以這是兩種新的香港有潜力探索的概念。而香港有潜力投資興建這些類型的發展項目。所以我認為租賃市場將發展到這樣一個地步:經紀人將不僅僅是在辦公樓裏代理辦公空間。我們可能是銷售一整套不同類型的環境。辦公室可能在一個共同工作空間內,即在一個有共同生活元素或不同類型的建築內具有不同類型健康元素的零售元素,都在一個巨大的生態系統中,更多的環境中。以及我認為租賃市場在不久的將來可能會發展到這一點。

Darren:太酷了。所以我想說的是,資產本身,過去往往是一種非常特殊的類型。例如,一座建築可能是純淨的住宅,純,你知道,零售或其他什麼。但顯然現在有不同類型的房客。有共同工作,共同生活,還有各種各樣的東西生態系統現在,建築似乎有自己的生態系統來互相幫助,所以它不再是一種類型,你知道,(基本),只是一種簡單的資產。就這樣是的,因為我知道每個人都在談論共同工作空間,你知道,整個Wework之類的事情。我肯定是這樣的,你知道,我們只是猜測,什麼是感覺。在你看來,在香港,同居是一個非常大的話題,住房問題之類的。我知道你在商業地產,但有點感動,你覺得怎麼樣行業,比如說在未來幾年裏,你認為這些機制會拯救香港還是在租賃方面幫助香港?

Cydon: 看合作空間,我知道有很多類型的房地產開發商和不同類型的企業嘗試在香港推出合住空間。其中一些成功了,但大多數沒有成功。我相信其中一個主要原因是,對於香港這樣的都市來說,同住的概念還是很陌生的。還有一個事實,是的,土地成本極為昂貴,囙此,無論您居住在哪個居住空間,每平方英尺的成本都將非常昂貴不管怎樣。所以我相信普通的,比如說,細分公寓的成本差真的不會是不同於共同生活的環境。所以,我的意思是,我看到同居,你知道,像飛漲很快就成為潮流?我不這麼認為。我認為,當香港本地人和外籍人士開始對這類概念產生興趣,或者至少對這類概念持開放態度。

Darren:這就是同居,不如在香港一起工作或共同零售。你覺得怎麼樣?

Cydon:我認為在香港,共事肯定有很大的潜力。然而,共同工作空間通常會吸引兩類租戶。一個是創業公司。所以對於較小的初創公司需要立即提供辦公空間,但卻沒有,比如說,前期資本支出,無法實際安裝一個全新的辦公室,並承諾從a到比如說,傳統辦公室的租賃期為三年。所以這也是一個很好的目標。你知道,他們可以是一兩個人做生意大概五到十歲。而其他類型的租戶會去共同工作空間,我們稱之為企業客戶。所以他們可能是你的HSBC,可能是你的Standard Charter (Bank)。他們可能是這些銀行的副公司,專注於科技、媒體、數位。這類團隊實際上會佔用大量的工作空間合作運營商,這是我們過去在香港所做的工作。不幸的是,我們的擴張如此之快,以至於我相信在過去的一年裏,它的許多擴張都不得不停止,並且在過去的幾個月裏不得不被遏制。但我相信需求仍然存在。我們只是在創業方面沒有像深圳這樣的內地都市那樣增長。在就創業公司數量的爆炸式增長而言,香港仍然落後,囙此這是共同辦公空間需求的主要來源之一。所以我認為,是的,這是不幸的,香港可能不是最牛市的共同工作空間。

Darren:那麼合作零售真的很快嗎?只是因為這是我感覺到很多人,你知道,我們知道,當地人誰做過這種空間,我只想知道聯合零售,因為似乎沒有人真正進入這個市場,或者沒有任何繁榮。

Cydon: 對。所以,不幸的是,聯合零售在兩三年前就開始流行起來了,那時彈出式廣告成為一個相對較新的概念,人們對此持開放態度。不幸的是,香港市場非常傳統,很多企業都非常害怕嘗試新概念。我們不是我們不是一個很好的前鋒思考之城。不幸的是,這些空間中的一些可能會空置數月,即使它對這些類型的聯合零售概念。但是,在過去的幾年裏,人們並沒有真正的開放思想和”胃口”對於這種類型的空間。囙此,香港必須再次開始教育,並可能提供激勵措施,鼓勵這類企業嘗試這些類型的聯合零售概念,他們自己會發現,實際上從這些類型的概念中可以獲益。

Darren:是啊,聽了你的話,我想是時候讓房東說“嘿,我們試試新的吧。讓我們互相幫助,“你知道嗎,你永遠不知道在我的腦海裏,這還是一片荒蕪的西部,對吧?所以我還有一個問題要問,你知道,多談一些我相信你知道的事情,有哪些方面你認為租客更喜歡香港?在過去的幾年或幾個月,甚至可能會有什麼樣的新房客入住你認為可以預見的幾個月?

Cydon:對。我想香港有兩個區是最熱門的話題談到商業租賃,這是香港群島東部和九龍東部。所以港島東邊會是提庫式的地方很多地方。這基本上就是太古王國所在的地方。我們之所以稱太古王國,是因為太古基本上擁有整個提庫的所有商業地產Place portfolio,還有City Plaza portfolio,僅一站之遙。之所以這是一個值得關注的地區,是因為有這樣的地方那裡有許多新的商業開發專案。在這個地區,基本上每一到兩年就會有嶄新的建築問世,都是由太古,都是太古經營的。所以你知道太古是一個非常有信譽的房東,他們所有的建築都有非常非常高的質量規範。囙此,這是一種非常非常有吸引力的服務類型,適用於尋找全新搬遷選擇的辦公室租戶。最重要的是它離中環或金鐘較近。我是說,我們在幾站以外的地方即使是開車,最長也只有10到15分鐘。所以不難想像為什麼會有這麼多租客向東進入這類地區。以及一些主要部門已經轉移在金鐘有一些律師事務所搬到了這裡地點。其他一些特徵還包括一些通常位於中環和金鐘的金融機構,但它們又找到了一個位置,並且發現太古的Taikoo Place組合是一個非常非常有吸引力的搬遷選擇。另一個區是東部。所以九龍東是我提到的第二個地區。我之所以提到東九龍是因為在那個地區有許多嶄新的甲等建築,房東們提供的非常多對願意搬遷到該地區的租戶提供有吸引力。所以九龍東區更具體地說包括九龍灣和觀塘,這兩個地方一直都是非常傳統的工業區,並不真正為人所知辦公室。所以這個地區其實有很多年過去的一點點時間,實際上建立了一個聲譽,有城裡最好的辦公大樓。最重要的一點,也是租金的差异,實際上是在高地東部的選擇和九龍東,因為你們的中心租金平均超過100港元,比如說甲級建築每平方英尺的租金。然後如果如果你向東移動一點到高地東部,那麼你可能要支付每平方英尺50港元左右的價格,這已經是價格的一半,如果你搬到像九龍東,包括九龍灣和觀塘,你可能會把這個數位再削减一半,比如說最高25港元每平方英尺30港元。這些都是全新的辦公樓,規格非常高。所以是的,我認為這是兩個值得注意的地區。

Darren:這很有趣,因為就像太古,每當我去那裡。我就像“這整個地區是一個太古王國”,當你說它是一個太古王國時,我就像“是的,這是真的。但我喜歡太古王國-我就像一個粉絲,喜歡他們的東西真的很好。不,太方便了。周圍的一切都像-我覺得我應該得到廣告他們的費用,但我真的很喜歡這個地方。我希望如此。我拿不到錢。但我認為我們掩蓋了很多有趣的事情。你想在離開之前給觀眾什麼樣的建議?

Cydon: 我想說的是,儘管在過去的一年裏發生了很多事情,但這確實動搖了很多投資者和香港很多人的信心,尤其是當說到房地產市場,毫無疑問,香港房地產仍然有很大的價值可以發揮因為這裡還有很多潜力。我之前提到的因素,比如土地缺乏,我們也有很有野心的地主香港人的財力非常雄厚,他們的工作和生活需求也在不斷變化,不斷變化,不斷變化離開香港。我的意思是,這些工廠將繼續推動商業地產領域的許多令人興奮的計畫,尤其是在未來幾年內出現的新發展和新概念。所以這是一個機會,這取決於我們,下一代人,要站出來創造這些機會,並以此引領都市。

Darren:當然。這真是個不錯的建議。謝謝您。那真的很好。囙此,對於那些想瞭解更多、接觸到你、瞭解更多香港租賃市場的觀眾來說,人們會如何接觸你並與你交談之類的事情?

Cydon:當然。是啊。我是說,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我。真的應該只有一個Cydon Choi在JLL工作,所以應該相對容易找到。

Darren:我不認為會有另一個Cydon Choi,所以我想你會沒事的。

Cydon:我真的希望如此。我真的不這麼認為。你說得對。所以,你可以在LinkedIn上找到我,給我發個簡訊,或者如果你有任何關於商業地產空間或任何需求的具體詢問。你也可以在我的JLL郵箱給我發郵件,那之後我會提供給Darren。此外,還有一些很好的資源來自JLL,但也來自其他大型機构,如CBRE、Colliers。我們總是會包括季度報告,我們會發送它發給任何類型的房客,我們把它送到最低價市場。我認為這些都是很好的資源來瞭解不同行業的商業地產空間以及。它們可以包括辦公、零售、工業,如果你是一個居住的人,是的,這些東西將是非常好的參攷資源。

Darren:是的,如果你不介意的話,我想在錄完這段錄音之後,我會要求你提供一些連結和所有的東西。然後我只想說謝謝,夥計。謝謝你的光臨然後感謝您告訴我和觀眾更多的關於正在發生的事情,因為這是我們心中的一件事,不是每個人每天都在思考房地產,但對於那些這樣做的人,你他們會這樣想,“哦,天哪。外面發生什麼事了?去什麼地方?”所以我真的很感謝你的時間,非常感謝你能參加這個節目。

Cydon:沒問題。謝謝你邀請我,Darren,乾杯。

Darren:是的,非常感謝,祝你玩得愉快。回頭見。

Cydon: 你也是,保重。

Darren:再見。


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Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Property Management 101 with Vishalsai Daswani

Property Management 101 with Vishalsai Daswani

Connect with Vishalsai:

hello@mypropty.com

Today, we have invited Vishalsai to talk about what a property manager does and how technology can help landlords and property managers.

  • What is Property Management?
  • Why hire property management companies?
  • What are the pros and cons?

Terminology & Source:

MyPropty: https://www.mypropty.com

Asset Management: Asset management is the overall process of governing an asset. It includes developing, maintaining as well as selling the asset.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/assetmanagement.asp

Tenant Management: Tenant management service is inclusive of dealing and assisting residents with all kinds of tenancy related inquiries and procedures.

https://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/201095/your_tenancy/426/tenancy_management/1

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Shout out to our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

http://www.patinadesignlab.com/

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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[Transcript]

Darren: Hey Vish, hey, how’s it going man?

Vishal: Hey, how are you? 

Darren: Very good. Very good. Just between interviews and stuff and then first of all, thanks for coming in and we’ve been longtime friends and we’ve never had this setting to interview like this so it’s kind of interesting in my perspective. First of all, would you mind telling the audience what you do and what your company does? 

Vishal: Sure. So I’m Vishal Sai, founder of my property. We help landlords reduce their operating costs and basically improve their portfolio returns here in Hong Kong. What we’re trying to do is basically develop technology to help them streamline their operations. I often see a lot of the work that they do and be able to make decisions when it comes to managing their property portfolios a lot faster and more reliably.

Darren: So for people that don’t understand what property management does, would you mind telling the audience a bit more about what property management do for estate owners? It can be from basic scope and it can be from different asset classes too and stuff like that. 

Vishal: Okay, so when it comes to property management, it can actually be divided into two main segments. So there is asset management, which covers common areas within buildings, and it’s usually applicable to people that own large estates. In the context of asset management, you tend to get involved with tasks such as repairing elevators, hiring security guards, fixing comp areas, building infrastructure and all that. The other aspect of property management is more on the tenant management side of things. So this involves more private areas within buildings. Tenant management companies are more involved in collecting rent from tenants, finding new tenants, handling repairs or appliance repairs within an apartment and more that sort of thing. So like going back to it under property management, there’s asset management and tenant management. Our business is actually more focused on the tenant management side of things. So we are targeting large landlords in Hong Kong that have several different units. They can be in the same building or they can be in different buildings scattered across Hong Kong. But what we do is we help them streamline their management with the tenants that they have in their various studios. 

Darren: I see. But it sounds like these are things that landlords could do themselves. They could hire a team. They could do everything in-house. So why would a landlord or a state owner would hire you or other companies? And what’s the pros and cons behind that? 

Vishal: So in terms of hiring property management companies, there are several companies that provide these tenant management services. And in terms of the pros, it’s quite obvious why you would hire a company like that. It’s because they’re professional. They provide a complete hassle free experience so they will handle everything. You even won’t have to deal with anything. You just get reports say every month. And the fact that they are experienced and professional means that, you know, everything will be handled in, I guess, a more formalized or correct manner, so to speak. However, there are several cons with going with an outsourced company as well. They tend to be fairly expensive for more experience. So property management companies or well tenant management companies in Hong Kong, they tend to charge between three to seven percent of the monthly rental, which is quite significant, especially if you own a sizable portfolio. These companies also provide a delayed cash flow. So if you’re managing a large portfolio, the cash flow is very important. And what they do is when they collect rent for a specific month, they typically only deposit those returns one month later after they’ve paid any management fees, government rent and so on and so forth. So if you become a large portfolio holder or medium sized portfolio holder, this could have significant effects on your cash flow. I think the last thing that I guess we have seen is that whenever you outsource your work to a different company, there may arise a conflict of interests. So if you use an external company, they will in turn use their own in-house staff for handling repairs or they will use their own internal property agents for handling renting out your properties. But this does not necessarily mean that you will get the best price for your repairs or it doesn’t necessarily mean that you will transact your property the fastest. I actually – many medium sized landlords end up hiring their own staff to use – to kind of manage their own personal portfolio. So imagine your landlord that owns around 20 units. Let’s say, for example, you’ll just hire one person full time, maybe a couple people, part time work, whatever it is to keep track of things via Excel, via word documents, manage your own files, but handle all of these things for you. So that is a very common structure that a lot of medium-sized landlords follow. However, the people that they hire don’t necessarily operate very efficiently. They don’t necessarily have industry experience. They don’t have economies of scale that you get for managing a large portfolio. And that’s where we see that’s where we kind of come in, where we help people in-house that are already managing property portfolios digitize and automate a lot of the work that they have to do, which in turn can help landlord downsize their team, reduce errors that happen, rent out properties faster and so on. 

Darren: So if a landlord chooses to be self managing by themselves, what kind of tips as a property management professional like yourself, what kind of mistakes, debts landlords might make and what kind of tips would you have to help them make it better? 

Vishal: So in terms of it, you mean if they’re managing it themselves right? 

Darren: Corrent. 

Vishal: So I think a lot of people that tend to manage their portfolios themselves tend to follow a very reactive process. So what we’ll do is if a tenant notifies them that they’ll be moving out, only after the process, will they go about finding which property agents that they should reach out to; what is the square footage of their apartment? What is the market price for similar units, even in terms of repairs? So whenever a repair request comes in, they will react and try to find out what are the necessary things that need to be done. One of the things that we feel that landlords should in fact do is take a more proactive approach, which is being more regularly well read about the status of their portfolio because a lot of the times you can actually tell when tenant is going to move out based off their payment schedules in the months prior or based off how many months outstanding payments there are. You can actually immediately get a sense of how you should be handling that tenant. Another thing that I think in Hong Kong is not very common is that they underestimate the cost of churning your tenants. Every time you find a new tenant, you may deal with various vacant periods. You have to pay agent commissions. The need to repair certain things increases. So there is a significant cost every time you have to find a new tenant. And a lot of the times landlords don’t necessarily factor that in and so they might be providing a very negative experience for their tenants throughout by not responding to their requests quickly, by not being responsive, by not openly communicating with their tenants on a regular basis, which means that the churn that happens within their portfolio is higher and these are subtle costs but you can have a huge impact on the portfolio that landlords have overall. 

Darren:I think from the way you talk about it, I think that’s why people have to hire an outside property management firm is because there’s so many things that are so particular, detail oriented, and you have to always be in touch with the market to know what’s going on and the landlord might just might not have the time to do everything. 

Vishal: That’s why people use property management companies. What, like I mentioned earlier, is that when you go to external parties, there tends to be a slight conflict of interest on certain things. And also they tend to be pretty expensive in Hong Kong, which is why you have a sizable enough portfolio, say ten, fifteen or up, you would likely hire your own team to do that for you.

Darren: I see. So obviously we both know each other long enough as I said before I know that you would provide, you focus more on the property management platform over the surface. What type of clients do you have when it comes to the platform? And why would they need your platform? What would they get from it?

Vishal: So the type of clients that we’re targeting are high net worth individuals, families, family offices, even small real estate firms in Hong Kong. So we’re targeting people that have between usually upwards of 10, maybe 15 to about a hundred properties under management in Hong Kong. A lot of these people tend to have their own stuff. As I said, managing their own portfolio and where we come in is that by helping them streamline a lot of the work that needs to be done and automating various things, they can potentially reduce their operating costs by downsizing team, reducing the number of errors that happen and promoting transparency within the organization so that if any issue does happen, multiple people can address those issues very quickly, being able to act on their property portfolios. So we’re basically trying to help these teams operate at a level even greater than property management companies. By helping them automate and basically digitize a lot of the work that needs to be done.

Darren: I see. So just wonder what kind of features or things that your product has, your platform has. And on top of that, what kind of property management service do you think can be automated? Because like, you know, I used to work in a real estate fund and then sometimes when I engage with property management, in my head, I was like, “I shouldn’t pay him that much because I can automate it with some tools out there.” I just want to know your point of view on that. 

Vishal: So I guess I’ll start off with some of the features that we’ve implemented and certain other things that we feel can be automated. So starting with something simple, we help them with generating their invoices, their receipts. Any payment reminder to their tenants. Keeping track of any repair tasks that need to be done, such as, say, you have an issue with your washing machine you want us to keep photos of before and after state. Log any phone numbers of people that you’re calling. So a place to log all of this kind of information. Another thing that people need is just being able to access their documents electronically. So a quick retrieval of data. We help them with that, because a lot of the times landlords don’t necessarily have say a history of your tenancies or they don’t have the floor plan when they need it or appliance warranties. So what we do is we help them digitize all of this information so that they can access it very quickly. So some other features that we have is actually like helping them contact property agents. So, again, going back to the workflow that landlords have, what they would do is when they have a property this weekend, they’ll walk down to the nearest centerline or midlane talked to a couple of agents, maybe reach out to some agents that they’ve worked with before. Well, what we do is immediately through the platform, you can press one button and send it out to all these agents, which we have helped filter and we have helped filter and get this information out efficiently.

Darren:I see.

Vishal: Yeah. So those are a couple of the features that the platform has. And also in terms of reporting, a lot of the times at the end of every month, you want a report on how your portfolio is doing. What the occupancy rates are like? What is your net spend or net cash flow position for the property portfolio and be able to assess that. So even in terms of generating these reports for your entire portfolio, a lot of this work can also be automated because all you have to do is now input the data and you let the system generate those reports for you.

Darren: I see. So like, you know, we’re in 2020 now. I just don’t get it. Like, why is property management port as a new thing? Because I thought these are things that would be around years ago right. I mean, you know, you can find, you can buy cars now online. A property management sounds like a thing that should be around for ten years already. So I just want to know, like, what’s the reason behind that? Why is this thing a new thing for 2020?

Vishal: So to be honest, property management platforms are not a new thing. It has been around like there are various tools for very large corporations, meaning people that manage several buildings in Hong Kong. So there are several tools for people in that market segment already. There’s just not many tools for people in the middle to mass market segments. The second thing is that there are property management platforms in the US, in the UK, in Australia and so on. But Hong Kong as a city is just very far behind technology wise. So a lot of things that are new in Hong Kong have perhaps been around for a while in other places as well. So what I would say is this might be a new platform in Hong Kong, but there are other property management companies existing in other countries. The last thing is that I think in this particular space, Hong Kong is a very unique market because there are buildings, there is relatively transparent data. There are a lot of landlords that own quite a lot of different units in Hong Kong. And there’s a lot of wealth stored here in real estate. In countries like the UK or the US, the number of landlords that own large portfolios as a percentage is a lot less of the population than it is here. 

Darren:True, I get it yeah.

Vishal: It makes it a very prime product for the Hong Kong market. 

Darren: I see. So, like because I know your tech background and so when you create the products right, is there something that you create that’s different because the audience here is different. Like I’m sure Americans have a different way of their UI and stuff like, but for your point of view right do you design differently or is it only because the target market is different?

Vishal: So the product is different because of the different market. So, like I said in Hong Kong, because one of the big differences is that there’s a concept of dual agency. So sometimes an agent might be working for the landlord. Another agent might be working for the tenant when leasing a property or an agent can actually work for both the landlord and tenant. So there’s a concept of that which is different in Hong Kong compared to a lot of other countries in the world. Also, the sheer volume of data homogenous data is present in Hong Kong because everything is highrises, it becomes a lot easier to create an equivalency between different units in the same building. And there’s a large volume where transaction is. However, in the US or the U.K., a lot of the homes are very heterogeneous, which makes it very difficult to actually compare like for like. So that’s another factor where in Hong Kong, when you read comparables, it’s being able to aggregate all these external data points and to display it is a lot more equal here than it is in other countries.

Darren: I see, that’s a very point because I’ve never thought of it that way. It’s just something that, you know, like you never think about like, “Hey, real estate can be more really similar to all people. But down to it it’s like people, even different landlords, different locations have different behavior.” So I have one last thing that I just want to know more right, because it seems like, you know, U.S. and European tend to be more open minded with tech. And I’m sure a lot of landlords, we both talked about this before a couple times is that people are just starting to get used to tech and start understanding tech. So what kind of challenges do you have when you’re pitching to a homeowner and landlords about your portal?

Vishal: Well, one of the big challenges is that with landlords, usually the larger the land, the larger landlords tend to be relatively older because they have, I guess, established their portfolio over several decades. And usually the older people are, the less likely they are willing to adopt new technologies. So this is very clear, because when we see sometimes the landlord or say in the case of families, the top generation having to make a decision about technology, they tend to be relatively averse to change, whereas people under the age under 55, for example, tend to immediately just get the value proposition, get the benefits, and a lot more willing to get started with it. So I think that’s one big factor. Another thing is that it’s also a cultural aspect. So many landlords in Hong Kong have been able to make money because the Hong Kong market has just appreciated significantly over the last couple decades. It’s not necessarily due to over optimization of how they manage their property portfolio. It’s kind of Hong Kong has been a growing market and that has been able to facilitate their growth in their portfolio. So I think that’s another. Another challenge to get across to landlords is that just because they’ve been doing it for 20 to 30 years doesn’t mean that they’re doing it in a very efficient manner or an optimal manner. So I would say those are the couple of things that are challenges when speaking to potential landlords.

Darren: Yeah, I’m sure it must be right. So, like, what kind of take away would the audience like you want the audience to have? And maybe are there any last words you have for the Hong Kong landlords. 

Vishal: So I guess the biggest takeaways is that there is significant disruption in the space. And usually when you look at it from an outside perspective, there are a lot of ways to streamline or digitize a lot of the work that is being done. And you can actually downsize their staff and reduce the number of errors that you’re having, it can go a long way in terms of boosting your portfolio value and yeah, it’s something that should be looked at.

Darren: So if you want to put a number, kind of like an idea to people right, how much time and effort do you think or even how much less labor they would need for a landlord if they have your product, for example?

Vishal: So from the clients that we worked with, we’ve been able to improve the time spent on various tasks by between 50 to 60 percent which means that there’s a good chance you can reduce your staff by 50 percent or even more. And in the case of some landlords they may not necessarily want to reduce their staff down, but you can reallocate the staff for various other work that needs to be completed within your organization as well. So we’ve seen quite a significant amount of time saving just by streamlining a lot of their work. And yeah, there’s a variety of ways to actually get this efficiency goods. 

Darren: That’s great. I think that’s something that is a very powerful message to people in Hong Kong to understand more about what’s out there and not even in Hong Kong, anywhere around the world. And is was your product only available in Hong Kong or you’re planning to go worldwide?

Vishal: So at the moment, it’s only available in Hong Kong. We think maybe in about a year or so we would look at some overseas markets as well. But at the moment, we’re focused on the Hong Kong space.

Darren: I see. So if all the audience wants to find out, find you and talk to you more, what are the ways that people can know more about your surface and product?

Vishal: Well, they can just email hello@myproperty.com. You can also WhatsApp me. You can add my WhatsApp into the description of the video.

Darren: You sure you want to put your WhatsApp out there? Everyone’s going to spam you.

Vishal: Well, we have a company WhatsApp so I’ll give you the Company WhatsApp number. So yeah. So either my WhatsApp or E-mail address. You can just reach out. You can also message on social media. But I would say e-mail or WhatsApp is probably your best bets.

Darren: Yeah, I’ll put everything in the show notes. And I think this is pretty good because not only for people that is learning about property management, it’s for people that want to understand what is a property management toolist, because like sometimes I tell people about your product and people are like, what does that even mean like what is there? So thanks for your time because, you know, like, I actually kind of want to do another episode with more property management. So I hope that you can join us next time.

Vishal: Okay, sure.

Darren:  All right. Thanks for coming in and I’ll talk to you next time then.

Vishal: All right, awesome, talk to you later Darren. Take care bye.

Darren: Talk to you later man, thanks. Okay bye. 

Darren:嘿,Vish,嘿,你好嗎?

Vishal:嘿,你好嗎?

Darren:很好。很好。就在拍攝面試間等等,首先,感謝您的光臨,我們是多年的朋友,我們從未有過這樣的採訪環境,所以在我看來,這有點有趣。首先,你介意告訴聽眾你和你的公司做什麼嗎?

Vishal:當然。我是Vishalsai,MyPropty創始人。我們幫助房東降低運營成本,基本上提高他們的投資組合回報率香港。我們要做的基本上是開發科技來幫助他們簡化操作。我經常看到他們做的很多工作而且在管理房地產投資組合時能够更快、更可靠地做出決策。

Darren:所以對於那些不瞭解物業管理的人來說,你介意多告訴觀眾物業管理為業主做些什麼嗎?可以來自基本範圍,也可以來自不同的資產類別之類的。

Vishal: 好的,說到物業管理,實際上可以分為兩個主要部分。所以有資產管理,包括建築物內的公共區域,它通常適用於擁有大量房產的人。在資產管理方面,你傾向於參與其中負責維修電梯、雇傭警衛、修理公司區域、建設基礎設施等任務那個。物業管理的另一個方面更多的是在租戶管理方面的事情。所以這涉及到更多的私人區域。租戶管理公司更多地參與向租戶收取租金、尋找新租戶、處理維修事宜或者在公寓裏修理電器等等。就像回到過去一樣物業管理,有資產管理和租戶管理。我們的業務實際上更專注於租戶管理方面的事情。所以我們是針對香港擁有多個不同單元的大型房東。他們可以在同一幢樓裏,也可以在分散在香港各地的不同建築物裏。但是我們要做的是幫助他們簡化他們對各個工作室的租戶的管理。

Darren:我明白了。但是聽起來這些都是房東自己可以做的事情。他們可以雇傭一個團隊。他們可以自己做任何事。那麼,為什麼房東或國有企業主會這麼做呢雇傭你還是其他公司?這背後有什麼利弊?

Vishal: 囙此,就雇傭物業管理公司而言,有幾家公司提供這些租戶管理服務。從專業角度來看,很明顯你為什麼會雇傭這樣的公司。因為他們很專業。他們提供了一個完全沒有麻煩的經驗,所以他們可以處理一切。你甚至不需要處理任何事情。你每個月都會收到報告。他們經驗豐富而且專業意味著,你知道,可以說,一切都將以一種更正式或更正確的管道來處理。然而,與外包公司合作也有一些缺點。他們往往是相當昂貴的經驗。So財產在香港的管理公司或井租客管理公司,他們往往收取每月租金的3%至7%,這是相當可觀的,尤其是如果你擁有可觀的投資組合。這些公司還提供延遲的現金流。所以如果你在管理一個大的投資組合,現金流非常重要。當他們收取特定月份的租金時,他們通常只存入這些回報一個月後,他們支付了管理費、地租等。所以如果你成為一個大的投資組合持有人或中型投資組合持有人,這可能會對您的現金流產生重大影響。我想最後一件事我想我們看到的是,當你把工作外包給另一家公司時,可能會出現利益衝突。囙此,如果您使用外部公司,他們將使用自己的內部員工來處理維修,或者他們將使用他們自己的內部物業代理,負責出租您的物業。但這並不一定意味著你會得到最好的價格對於您的維修,或者不一定意味著您將以最快的速度處理您的財產。我實際上-很多中等大小的房東最終雇傭自己的員工來管理自己的個人投資組合。所以想像一下你的房東擁有大約20個單元。比如說,你只需要雇一個人全職,也許幾個人,兼職,無論是通過Excel還是word檔案來跟踪事情,管理您自己的檔案,但是所有這些都是給你的。囙此,這是一個非常普遍的結構,許多中型房東遵循。然而,他們雇傭的人不一定很有效率。他們不一定有工業體驗。他們沒有你管理大型投資組合所獲得的規模經濟。這就是我們需要幫助的地方,我們幫助已經在管理的內部人員房地產投資組合數位化並自動化許多他們必須做的工作,這反過來又可以幫助房東縮小團隊規模,减少發生的錯誤,更快地出租物業,等等。

Darren:那麼,如果房東選擇自己管理,作為一個像你這樣的物業管理專業人士,有什麼建議錯誤,房東可能會有,你有什麼建議可以幫助他們把事情做得更好?

Vishal: 所以在的術語中,你的意思是他們自己管理的是否正確?

Darren:是的。

Vishal: 所以我認為很多傾向於自己管理投資組合的人往往會遵循一個非常被動的過程。所以我們要做的是,如果房客通知他們他們要搬出去,只有在這一過程之後,他們才會去找他們應該聯系的房產仲介他們公寓的面積是多少?類似組織的市場價格是多少,即使是在維修方面?所以只要有維修請求,他們就會做出反應,找出需要做的事情。我們認為房東實際上應該做的一件事是採取一種更積極主動的方法,這是一種經常被廣泛閱讀的方法他們的投資組合的狀態,因為很多時候你可以根據他們的付款時間表來判斷租客何時搬出在前幾個月或根據有多少個月未付款。你可以馬上知道你應該處理那個房客。另一件我認為在香港並不常見的事是低估了炒房客的成本。每次你找到一個新房客,你可能會遇到各種各樣的空置期。你必須支付代理傭金。修理某些東西的需要新增了。所以每次你要找一個新房客都要付出很大的代價。很多時候房東不一定會考慮到這一點,所以他們可能會提供非常負面的影響通過不快速回應他們的請求、不作出響應、不公開地與他們溝通來體驗他們的租戶租戶是定期的,這意味著他們的投資組合中發生的客戶流失會更高,這些都是細微的成本,但你可以做到對房東的投資組合有著巨大的影響。

Darren:我認為從你談論它的管道來看,我認為這就是為什麼人們必須聘請外部的物業管理公司是因為有太多的事情是如此的特殊,注重細節,而且你必須時刻與市場保持聯系,以瞭解情况房東可能沒有時間做任何事情。

Vishal:這就是人們使用物業管理公司的原因。就像我剛才提到的,當你去外部各方,在某些事情上往往會有輕微的利益衝突。而且在香港也很貴,這就是為什麼你有足够大的投資組合,比如10個、15個或更多,你可能會雇傭你自己的團隊來為你做這些。

Darren:我明白了。所以很明顯我們彼此認識的時間足够長,就像我之前說的那樣,我知道你會提供,你更專注於地面上的物業管理平臺。在平臺方面,你有什麼類型的客戶?為什麼他們需要你的平臺?他們會從中得到什麼?

Vishal: 所以我們的目標客戶類型是高淨值個人、家庭、家庭香港的小型房地產公司。所以我們把目標鎖定在在香港管理的物業超過10個,可能有15個到100個。很多人傾向於自己的東西。正如我所說,管理他們自己的投資組合和我們的目的是幫助他們簡化許多需要完成的工作通過自動化各種事務,他們可以通過精簡團隊、减少錯誤數量和提高組織內部的透明度,以便在發生任何問題時,多人可以快速解决這些問題,能够對其房地產投資組合採取行動。所以我們基本上是要幫助這些團隊在比物業管理公司。通過幫助他們自動化和基本上數位化許多需要完成的工作。

Darren:我明白了。所以想知道你的產品有什麼樣的功能或東西,你的平臺有什麼。除此之外,什麼樣的物業管理您認為服務可以自動化嗎?因為,你知道,我以前在一家房地產基金工作,有時候當我從事物業管理的時候,在我的腦海裏,我比如,“我不應該給他那麼多錢,因為我可以用一些工具來實現自動化。”我只想知道你對此的看法。

Vishal: 所以我我想我將從我們已經實現的一些功能和我們認為可以自動化的某些其他東西開始。所以從簡單的事情開始,我們幫助他們生成發票和收據。向房客催款。保持跟踪需要完成的任何維修任務,例如,如果您的洗衣機出現問題,您希望我們保留之前和州後。記下你打電話的人的電話號碼。一個記錄所有這些資訊的地方。另一個人們需要的只是能够以電子管道訪問他們的檔案。所以快速檢索數據。我們幫他們解决這個問題,因為很多時候房東不一定要說你的租房史,或者他們在需要房屋或設備時沒有樓層平面圖保證。所以我們要做的就是幫助他們數位化所有這些資訊,這樣他們就可以很快地訪問這些資訊。所以其他的我們擁有的功能實際上就像幫助他們聯系房產仲介一樣。所以,再次回到房東的工作流程,他們會做的是在這個週末有一個房產,他們會走到最近的中原地產或美聯,和幾個經紀人談過,可能會聯系一些他們以前合作過的經紀人。好吧,我們要做的就是通過平臺,你可以按下一個按鈕,然後發送給所有這些代理,我們已經幫助過濾和我們已經幫助過濾並有效地獲取這些資訊。

Darren:我明白了。

Vishal:是的。所以這些是平臺的一些特性。而且在報告方面,很多時候在每個月底,你想一份關於你的投資組合情况的報告。入住率是多少?你的淨支出是多少或房地產投資組合的淨現金流頭寸,並能够對此進行評估。所以即使是在為您的整個投資組合中,許多工作也可以自動化,因為您現在只需輸入數據,然後讓系統為您生成報告。

Darren:我明白了。就像,你知道,我們現在到了2020年。我就是不明白。比如,為什麼物業管理是新因為我認為這些都是幾年前的事,對吧。我是說,你知道,你可以找到,你可以在網上買車。物業管理聽起來像是一件事這應該已經有十年了。所以我只想知道,比如,這背後的原因是什麼?為什麼這是2020年的新事物?

Vishal: 所以說實話,物業管理平臺不是什麼新鮮事。好像有各種各樣的工具對於非常大的公司,指在香港管理多個建築物的人。囙此,有幾種工具可供該細分市場的人使用已經。只有很少工具適合中等至眾群市場。第二件事美國、英國、澳大利亞都有物業管理平臺嗎以此類推。但作為一個都市,香港在科技方面遠遠落後。所以香港有很多新事物也許在其他地方也有一段時間了。所以我想說的是,這可能是香港的一個新平臺,但是其他國家是否有其他物業管理公司。最後一件事是我認為在這個特殊的空間裏,香港是一個非常獨特的市場,因為有建築物,有相對透明的數據。在香港有很多房東擁有很多不同的單元。還有很多財富都儲存在房地產裏。在英國或美國等國家,擁有大量投資組合在人口中所占的比例比現在要少得多。

Darren:是的,我明白了。

Vishal: 它使它成為香港市場的一款非常優秀的產品。

Darren:我明白了。所以,就像我知道你的科技背景,所以當你創造出正確的產品時,你有什麼東西創作與眾不同,因為這裡的觀眾不同。我確信美國人的使用者介面和其他東西有不同的管道,但就你的觀點來看,你的設計是不同的還是不同的僅僅因為目標市場不同?

Vishal: 產品是不同的,因為市場不同。所以,就像我在香港說過的,因為其中一個很大的區別就是存在雙重代理的概念。所以有時候經紀人可能在為房東工作。另一個代理可能在租賃物業時為租戶工作,或者代理實際上可以同時為兩個代理工作房東和房客。囙此,香港有一個與世界上許多其他國家不同的概念。此外,香港存在大量的同質數據,因為一切都是高層建築中,在同一建築中的不同單元之間創建等效關係變得容易得多。還有一個交易量大。然而,在美國或英國,很多家庭是非常異質的,這使得很難真正地進行比較。這是另一個因素,在香港,當你閱讀可比數據時能够匯總所有這些外部數據點並將其顯示出來,這比其他國家的情况要平等得多。

Darren:我看,這很重要,因為我從來沒有這樣想過。你知道的,就像你從來沒想過的那樣,“嘿,房地產可以更像所有的東西人們。但歸根結底,就像人,甚至不同的房東,不同的地點有不同的行為,“所以我最後一件事就是想知道的更正確,因為這看起來像,你知道的,美國和歐洲在科技方面往往更開放。我相信很多房東,我們之前都談到過,人們剛剛開始習慣科技,開始瞭解科技。那麼,當你向房主和房東推銷你的入口网站時,你會遇到什麼樣的挑戰?

Vishal: 好吧,最大的挑戰之一是,對於房東,通常土地越大,規模越大的房東往往相對更老,因為他們,我猜,已經建立了自己的投資組合幾十年來。而且通常年紀越大,他們就越不願意接受新事物科技。所以這一點很清楚,因為當我們看到有時房東或說在家庭的情况下,上層一代人必須對科技做出决定,他們傾向於相對厭惡改變,而年齡在以下的人例如,55往往會立即獲得價值主張,獲得利益,並且更願意開始吧。所以我認為這是一個重要因素。另一件事是它也是文化方面。香港有這麼多房東能够賺錢,是因為香港市場在過去的幾十年裏受到了極大的讚賞。這不一定是因為他們管理財產的管道過於優化投資組合。香港一直是一個不斷增長的市場,這有助於他們投資組合的增長。所以我想這是另一個。另一個讓房東理解的挑戰是,僅僅因為他們這樣做是為了20到30年並不意味著他們以一種非常有效的管道或最佳的管道來做這件事。所以我想說這是兩件事這是與潜在房東交談時的挑戰。

Darren:是的,我肯定是對的。那麼,比如,什麼樣的帶走觀眾會喜歡你想要的嗎?也許你對香港地主還有什麼遺言。

Vishal: 所以我想最大的收穫是空間出現了嚴重的破壞。通常當你從外面看的時候從長遠來看,有很多方法可以簡化或數位化正在完成的大量工作。你真的可以精簡他們的員工,减少你犯下的錯誤,這對提升你的投資組合價值有很大幫助是的,這是一個值得關注的問題。

Darren: 或者說,如果你很想讓別人知道,怎麼做比如說,如果他們有你的產品,他們為房東所需的勞動力會减少多少?

Vishal: 囙此從我們合作的客戶那裡,我們能够將花在各種任務上的時間縮短50%到60%這意味著你很有可能將員工减少50%甚至更多。對於一些房東來說,他們不一定要裁員,但是你可以重新分配組織內需要完成的各種其他工作的員工。所以我們看到了大量的時間節省通過簡化他們的工作。是的,有很多種方法可以得到這種高效率的產品。

Darren:太好了。我認為這是一個非常有力的資訊,可以讓香港人更多地瞭解外面的情况,甚至不包括香港,世界上任何地方。你的產品只在香港還是你打算去世界各地?

Vishal: 所以現時,它只在香港發售。我們想大概在一年左右的時間裏還有一些海外市場。但現時,我們關注的是香港。

Darren:我明白了。所以如果所有的觀眾都想知道,找到你,多和你談談,有什麼方法可以讓人們更多地瞭解你的表面和產品?

Vishal:嗯,他們可以發電子郵件hello@mypropty.com。你也可以跟我說什麼。你可以把我的WhatsApp添加到視頻的描述中。

Darren:你確定要把你的WhatsApp放出來嗎?每個人都會給你發垃圾郵件。

Vishal:好吧,我們有一家公司怎麼辦我會把公司的地址告訴你。所以是的。所以不是我的WhatsApp就是我的電子郵寄地址。你可以伸出援手。你可以也可以在社交媒體上留言。但我認為電子郵件或WhatsApp可能是你最好的選擇。

Darren:是的,我會把所有的東西都寫在節目記錄裏。我覺得這很好,因為不是只有那些正在學習物業管理的人,才是想瞭解什麼是物業管理工具主義者的人,因為就像有時我會告訴別人你的產品,人們會說,這意味著什麼好像有什麼?所以謝謝你的時間,因為,你知道,我其實有點想做另一集更多的物業管理。所以我希望你下次能加入我們。

Vishal:好的,當然。

Darren:好的。謝謝你的光臨,我下次再和你談。

Vishal:好吧,太棒了,晚點再跟你談談,Darren。保重,再見。

Darren:晚點再跟你說,夥計,謝謝。好的,再見。

That’s all for today. See you later!

Categories
Market Updates 未分類

Guide To Vancouver Real Estate Market With Aaron Wong


Guide To Vancouver Real Estate Market With Aaron Wong

The Vancouver real estate market has been popular among overseas real estate investors for quite some time. If you are interested but don’t know how to get started, check out this video with Aaron to learn more about the Vancouver real estate market and what to be aware of.

Aaron Wong and is a real estate agent at Regent Park Realty. The firm is located in Vancouver West- Kerrisdale neighbourhood and it has agents who specialize in all areas of Greater Vancouver. Their goal is to provide insightful advice to ensure that the clients are well-informed in making any buying or selling decision. Aaron mainly works with residential clients both on the buying and selling side and specializes in the Metro Vancouver area.

  • Different characteristics of the Vancouver neighbourhoods
  • The potentiality of different types of investments in Vancouver
  • Which areas do overseas investors tend to invest in?
  • What to be aware of?
  • Tax and mortgages policy.

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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[Transcript]

Darren: Hey, Aaron, so welcome to the show.

Aaron: Hey Darren!

Darren: Yeah, so like this is exciting because I used to live in Vancouver and I went to high school in Vancouver so that’s like a one and a half decade by now and then. So I know you through Jerry, my ex-colleague from Vancouver. So this is good because I want to kind of be nostalgic a little bit about Vancouver, what’s going on because Vancouver has been a very hot market and a lot of people here I know in Hong Kong are also from Vancouver as well. And I want to share with them what’s going on. And then maybe for them they’ll think about Vancouver a little bit, miss home a little bit. So I’m really happy to have you here today.

Aaron: Thank you.

Darren: So before that, right, would you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself and your work?

Aaron: Yeah, so my name is Aaron Wong. I was actually born in Vancouver, so I’m very familiar with the city. I’ve Pretty much lived here for my whole entire life and in terms of real estate, I started doing it actually straight out of university. So I’ve been working on it for almost a fifth year now, actually. So five years in the business and working in a medium sized brokerage where mostly residential focused and we’re located in Kerrisdale. So we specialize with a lot of ties in the area. But in a brokerage, we also have agents who specialize in the tri-cities and other parts of Vancouver as well.

Darren: Hmm. I see. So for some audiences that may not know much about the different neighbourhoods in the greater Vancouver area, which obviously would be great if you can describe a little bit about the greater Vancouver area. Would you mind telling them about how is the neighbourhood like and then where like the overseas investors tend to invest?

Aaron: Yeah, for sure. So Vancouver how you would think about it  is that we’re actually in a Greater Vancouver area, what they usually call it. And within the greater Vancouver area, you actually have different cities. So one of them, of course, being the city of Vancouver. So that’s the main city center of Greater Vancouver. And then it branches out into other cities such as Burnaby to the east, Richmond to the south. And then you also have the tri-cities, which is further to the east and that’s around Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam and also Port Moody. So usually I find that overseas investors, they tend to focus in Metro Vancouver a lot. So that would be in the city of Vancouver, Burnaby, as well as the Richmond areas, just because, you know, those are the areas with the most density in the redevelopment right now.

Darren: I see. So a few topics, a few people around my circle, there’s always tea talking about Vancouver real estate. And then what’s the reason behind this trend that is booming recently and how do you think it will evolve in the next couple of years?

Aaron: Well, right now, I think a lot of people see Vancouver as very attractive because first of all, you know, you’ve been a Democrat before. You know, the lifestyle here is very healthy, relaxed. You know, we have air and water, a lot of cultural diversity. And also I find that we have quite a few good schools here. And a lot of people, when they move here, it doesn’t have any parts of the world they can kind of feel at home in certain neighbourhoods one way or another. So from the trend, I think, especially this past year, we had a lot of investors, especially from Asia, Hong Kong, and they’re just looking to relocate here just could be as they just like the city.

Darren: I see, you know, like I always remember the Vancouver lifestyle is Lululemon and good vibes. You know, there’s no problems, relaxing everyday is very similar. The weather in the winter is a bit gloomy sometimes, but summer is beautiful, it’s a paradise. So, you know, by being said, right, do you think there are some areas in Vancouver that are a bit overrated, overpriced at the moment?

Aaron: Well, right now, it’s kind of interesting because we just came out of a three month city lockdown and then so the real estate market has kind of started to pick up again. But in general, I mean overrated, a lot of investors tend to focus on West Vancouver and Vancouver West just because, you know, being in a more higher end and prestigious area. So even until today, when we had the market peak back in 2016-2017, some of the prices are still fairly overinflated in those areas. So, I mean, I wouldn’t say that necessarily it’s overhyped. Whether it’s just, you know, some of the pricing you have to be careful what you’re buying into, because a lot of the investors are trying to maybe liquidate some assets and then you may or may not be getting the best deal depending on what homes you’re looking for.

Darren: I see. So, you know, just now you mentioned a lot of people are coming, moving to Vancouver and moving to different places and stuff like that. So do a majority of your investors tend to be moving there or and also too right, with that, how would you suggest differently for investors applying to be either self or investment only?

Aaron: Well, I work with a couple of different groups, so some of them, they’re mainly based overseas and they’re looking for investment only properties in the Vancouver area. And so these investors, we tend to focus more on the numbers, rental return, rental stability, kind of lower vacancies, whereas there’s another group of investors where they plan to purchase a home here, whether or not their children are coming over for school or they maybe eventually plan to retire or leave and make it work part time. So it sounds like there’s a few different focuses, of course, the main element being the overall value of the property, but also it becomes a lifestyle, too, because we have so many different neighbourhoods. It really depends on what works for them as lifestyle, what kind of place they prefer, and usually this is more of an emotional purchase because they do tend to live in the property, so a little bit of mixed up with clients, little bit of a different approach, depending on whether it’s just a pure investment or investment/principle residence.

Darren: I see, I have done a lot of interviews so far, and I always want to have an episode that we can deep dive into the cities. Like in my head I was thinking about maybe having a Google maps, we share it with your screen and then you can go through, walk through the block and street with me. It’s something that we can do in the next episode in the future. But then let’s go back to this, because I think that for a lot of investors, they want to know where to start, because Vancouver obviously some investors in Hong Kong look into Toronto, Vancouver, US, Malaysia, Singapore, a lot of different places. So this episode will be focusing on very high picture, high level picture. Obviously, at the end of this episode, we can ask them to talk to you more about what’s going on in detail. So I have another question like what are some things that oversea investors should be aware of when assessing the opportunities in Vancouver? You know, it’s something that I think they’ll appreciate if you can give them some pointers for that.

Aaron: Yeah, I think one of the biggest parts that overseas investor, because, you know, Canada in general, especially B.C., we actually have a lot of different types of taxes, especially types that deal with real estate. Now, the biggest thing is that if you are an overseas investor and you’re not a citizen or a PR, there is an additional 20% foreign buyer tax. So when you think about some of the price of the property, a 20% tax is actually quite a big premium right. So then I would say first of all, it’s best to talk to ,of course, a real estate professional and then they can suggest you ways to structure your purchase in order to minimize the actual closing costs and other aspects of purchasing the investment property.

Darren: Hmm, I see. So go back to that because tax is obviously a big subject and a lot of people will always be like, “Okay, tax, how much is this?” So, like, just now you mentioned right, I heard there’s a new high-end home tax like what’s that about.

Aaron: Ok, so the high-end home tax is funny, they call it that, because whenever you’re purchasing a property in Vancouver or in the metro Vancouver area, they have what you call a property transfer tax. So then the buyer actually has to pay the government a tax to transfer the property to their name so you know this is the buyer bearing those costs. And so traditionally these taxes they’re tiered, of course, you know, just like our income taxes. And what the government decided to do and I think February 2018 was that they added another tier to the property transfer tax. So normally, let’s say you’re buying a house, two or three million dollars. You’re paying your first tier, which is the one percent on the two hundred thousand. And then you have the two percent from two hundred thousand to two million. And then usually you’re pretty much set unless you buy something even higher. So now what they have is that above three million, there is another tax that they add another two percent on there. So you end up paying more of a five percent anything above three million dollars and it could really add up to the total.

Darren: That’s pretty expensive. Jesus.

Aaron: Yeah, yeah, it’s hard to explain in a short video, but the more expensive the property, the more expensive the taxes, just like how B.C., also introduced a luxury car tax because it’s getting kind of crazy you know.

Darren: Yeah, well before that too, I actually neglected a little bit like would you mind telling the audience about the property transfer tax and then how it works?

Aaron: Yeah, so property transfer tax, so usually these costs are costs that the buyer should be aware of, because when you’re buying any kind of property in Vancouver, there is a property tax upon closing. And the only exception is if you’re buying a piece of property under seven hundred fifty thousand dollars and you’re going to plan to live in it as a personal residence then the tax is exempt. But in most cases, you do have to pay the property transfer tax, whether you’re buying a commercial property or even any kind of residential property.

Darren: I see. So I think that the tax is a big topic and I’m sure people can reach out to you more about that in detail. But I want to know more about the lockdown. How does that affect the market like where are the opportunities for investors now during this time with the pandemic?

Aaron: Oh well, it’s interesting because it’s been a long time, I think a lot of people who are just across the lot of the busier metropolitan areas, they explain to me the prices to maybe go down or soften, but with Vancouver it was actually quite resilient. I mean, there was overall less listings on the market during the few months because, of course, you don’t want people going to view during that time, right. But overall, I think there was less affect of the prices. They haven’t really dropped much. And with now the lockdown coming down, people are actually coming out in waves and buying again. And we’re seeing actually quite a lot of activity in the market from that.

Darren: I see, I see. Okay, that’s good. I want to know right, because I kind of lost touch in Vancouver for awhile. I’m kind of embarrassed to say that because I’ve always had Vancouver in my heart, are there any hip places that attract a lot of younger crowds that are willing to pay more in rent? And then in addition, What are some places that have a lot more commercial activities that people should look at?

Aaron: So I mean, in terms of the younger audience, of course, Vancouver, downtown, it’s very popular because that’s where all the nightlife and the central business district is located. So I would say Yaletown has always been very popular amongst the younger crowd and recently actually they’re developing part of East Vancouver called Main street and Kingsway, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the area still, Mount Pleasant area. And they’re building a lot more of Boutique buildings there and it seems to be attracting quite a lot of the young crowd. So that seems to be pretty popular with some of the younger investor clients or even people looking for a first home.

Darren: I see. I think I’m selfish because I kind of want to ask for myself if one day I move back so I know where to go.

Aaron: We’ll definitely do a big, a good tour of the city before you decide.

Darren: I got to browse on the Google Maps, like which street exactly, how fast they go to different bars and clubs and stuff like that. So, you know, it’s funny, right? So Vancouver has been promoting a lot right past few years about Silicon Valley and Hollywood of the North, right. There are a lot of startups in Vancouver. There are a lot of people always trying to shoot videos and movies in Vancouver now, is that still relevant? And how does that affect commercial activities regarding the residential side?

Aaron: You know, it’s definitely still relevant because right now, actually, Amazon is still working on their office in downtown. So then they bought that old Canada Post site and then now they’re developing into a really big Amazon office space. And, of course, they have the Microsoft Office that was recently set up a few years ago. Facebook is moving in here, Apple pretty much like they call the Silicon Valley of the north. You know, they’re Vancouver based. And within the film industry, it’s well, maybe not as active in these last few months, but in general, there’s actually a lot of opportunities, real estate wise, especially in a short term rental market, that a lot of these celebrities are movie stars. They would always looking for short term housing and it’s actually quite a lucrative business for some of those landlords.

Darren: That’s good. That’s good. It’s something that I didn’t know until I moved back away from Vancouver. I was like, oh, I didn’t know that big scene at the moment. Obviously, real estate and mortgage come hand to hand right, What are some tips you have for overseas investors when it comes to getting a mortgage?

Aaron: I will say for the mortgage, because right now the banks, they’re usually pretty open to foreign investment, they always have new investment programs for foreign investors. So I would say the most important thing is that you can talk to a mortgage broker or existing banking relationship with the Canadian bank. Definitely check with them first to just see your eligibility and then you can go shopping from then on with your budget.

Darren: I see. Okay, and then like I think there are a lot more questions in my head, but obviously I’ll save it for next time and then we can do this whole Google map browsing around, see the street going on stuff like that in the next episode. So I want to know right, what kind of tips and advice would you have for the audience when it comes to investing in Vancouver?

Aaron: I would say the biggest tip of our real estate, definitely you want to be making an informed decision no matter what you’re investing in right. And one of the things I find with overseas investors is that a lot of them, they don’t seem to be used to working with agents, because I know that, for example, in certain markets, especially with the representation, they’re worried, that they have to pay more fees and all that stuff for a buyer’s agent to take them around right. But actually how it works in Vancouver is that for you to be represented as a buying party actually doesn’t cost them anything for professional advice, which is why I always recommend, you know consult a buyer’s agent to take you around because they know what they’re doing and they can make sure you’re fully represented. And pretty much warn you of any kind of caveats or, you know, things with certain properties that you plan to invest into.

Darren: I see, I think that is good because people keep forgetting that, people keep asking around and stuff like, but maybe they should just talk to you. People should talk to you more on what’s going on. So I know I’m just curious because we have phone calls a couple of times before. Like, I just want to know, what else are you working on besides being a real estate agent or, you know, as a whole?

Aaron: Right now, actually, I have a few side projects. One of the things is that I’m also looking into small businesses, so I actually have a few clients who are looking to actually acquire businesses. So, you know, being in the network where we also work with small business owners. This is kind of something I’m working on on this side as well, on top of this residential sales and whatnot.

Darren: I think that’s awesome. I think that a lot of people in real estate keep forgetting that you know, you have these different exposures to people who have the money in the capital and then a lot of people have good ideas so I think it is a good time, especially in a recession. So a lot of good companies tend to respond when times are like this. So I think that this episode actually have a lot of good buy size information. What kind of takeaway would you like the audience to have in this whole interview so far?

Aaron: I would say takeaway points, definitely, if you haven’t been in Vancouver, visit the city, especially summertime, you know obviously winter can be a little bit cold and rainy, but most likely people who visit say they definitely fall in love with it. And, you know, in terms of real estate, it’s a very popular thing here in Vancouver. And I always encourage touring different neighbourhoods, see what you like because, you know, Vancouver, there’s lifestyle at the end of the day, right? If you’re planning to invest or move over to the city and another take away of course, you know, just to reiterate, if you plan to buy property, always have someone representing you do not walk into a random open house or call an agent, because most of the time you may not be getting the best representation for the, you know, your property purchase.

Darren: That’s good. And how would we suggest the audience to reach out to you when it comes to learning more about the Vancouver real estate market.

Aaron: You can contact me through my brokerage website, I have my email and phone number there. For the younger audience, you can also Instagram, although I should be updating that more often, but I can send you the information after the interview.

Darren: Yeah, I’ll put everything in the show notes and then I just want to say thank you because I know we never met in person, we’ve had a couple of phone calls and everything and thanks, but Jerry, if you listens to this for introducing us and then I want to do another part two in the future about really deep dive into neighbourhoods, because not only for myself, I think a lot of people would appreciate it and learn for example, Vancouver has so many different neighbourhoods within even the city itself. So thanks again for your time and I really appreciate it. And then I hope that you can join us for the next episode.

Aaron: Yeah, most definitely. Thanks for the interview.

Darren: No, thank you. Thanks a lot. Talk to you later then. Good day, bye.


===

Darren: 嘿,Aaron,歡迎收看節目。

Aaron:嘿,Darren !

Darren :是的,這樣很興奮,因為我以前住在溫哥華讀高中,所以現在好像有15年半。所以我是通過Jerry認識你的,我以前從溫哥華來的同事。所以這是很好,因為我想對溫哥華懷舊一點,因為溫哥華一直是一個非常流行的市場和很多人我知道香港也有來自溫哥華的人。我想和他們分享發生了什麼。也許他們會考慮一下溫哥華,有點想念家。所以我很高興你今天能來。

Aaron:謝謝。

Darren :在那之前,你介意告訴觀眾一些關於你自己和你的作品嗎?

Aaron:是的,所以我叫Aaron Wong。我實際上出生在溫哥華,所以我很熟悉都市。我在這裡住了一輩子,在房地產方面,我從大學畢業就開始在這行業工作。所以我一直致力於實際上是第五年了。囙此,我們在一家中型經紀公司工作了五年,主要集中在住宅區,而且我們所在的位置克裏斯代爾。所以我們在這一地區專門經營很多關聯。但在經紀公司,我們也有專門在三城和溫哥華其他地區的代理商。

Darren :嗯,我明白了。囙此,對於一些可能不太瞭解大溫哥華地區不同街區的觀眾來說,這顯然會是如果你能描述一下大溫哥華地區,那就太好了。你介意告訴他們這個社區怎麼樣,然後告訴他們海外投資者傾向於在哪裡投資嗎?

Aaron:是的,當然。所以溫哥華,你會怎麼想,我們實際上是在一個大溫哥華地區,他們通常稱之為。在大溫哥華地區,你實際上有一個不同的都市。當然,其中之一就是溫哥華市。所以那是大溫哥華的主要城市中心。然後它又延伸到其他城市,如東部的伯納比,南部的里士滿。然後你還有三個都市,在更東邊,科奎特蘭港和還有穆迪港。所以通常我發現,海外投資者,他們往往集中在溫哥華大都會。所以那是在都市裏溫哥華、伯恩比以及里士滿地區,因為,你知道,這些地區是現時重建中密度最大的地區。

Darren :我明白了。所以一些話題,我圈子裏的一些人,總是有人在談論溫哥華的房地產。那麼,這一趨勢的背後原因是什麼你認為未來幾年它會怎樣發展?

Aaron:好吧,現在,我認為很多人認為溫哥華很有吸引力,因為首先,你知道,你以前溫哥華生活。你知道嗎這裡的生活方式非常健康、放鬆。你知道,我們有空氣和水,有很多文化多樣性。我也發現我們這裡有不少好學校。很多人,當他們搬到這裡的時候,那裡沒有任何一個地方能讓他們有種賓至如歸的感覺或者另一個街區。所以從趨勢來看,我認為,特別是去年,我們有很多投資者,尤其是亞洲,香港,他們只是想搬到這裡,就像他們喜歡的都市一樣。

Darren :我明白了,你知道,就像我一直一樣,記住溫哥華的生活方式是露露蒙和良好的氛圍。你知道,沒有問題,每天放鬆都很相似。冬天的天氣不好有時候很陰沉,但是夏天很美,是個天堂。所以,你知道嗎,你認為溫哥華有些地方現在定價過高了嗎?

Aaron:好吧,現在,這有點有趣,因為我們剛從三個月的都市禁閉中出來所以房地產市場又開始回升了。但總的來說,我的意思是被高估了,很多投資者傾向於把重點放在西溫哥華和溫哥華西區只是因為,你知道,在一個更高端和有聲望的地區。所以直到今天,當我們的市場高峰回到2016-2017年,這些地區的一些價格仍然相當高。所以,我的意思是,我不認為這一定是誇大了。不管是,你知道,有些定價你必須小心你在買什麼,因為很多投資者都在試圖變現一些資產,然後你可能會或可能不會得到最好的交易,這取決於你在找什麼房子。

Darren :我明白了。所以,你知道,剛才你提到很多人要來,搬到溫哥華搬去不同的地方和諸如此類的事情。那麼,你的大多數投資者是否傾向於轉移到那裡,或者也太正確了,對此,你有何建議對於申請自我或僅投資的投資者來說,情况不同?

Aaron:好吧,我和幾個不同的團隊一起工作,所以他們中的一些人,主要在海外工作,他們正在尋找僅限溫哥華地區的投資性房地產。所以這些投資者,我們傾向於更關注數位,租金回報,租金穩定,空置率較低,而另一批投資者計畫在這裡買房,不管他們的孩子是否會來上學或者他們可能最終計畫退休或離開,讓它成為兼職。所以聽起來有幾個不同的重點,當然,主要因素是房產的整體價值,但它也成為一種生活方式,因為我們有很多不同的社區。這取決於他們的生活方式,什麼他們更喜歡的地方,通常這更像是感情購買,因為他們確實傾向於居住在房產裏,所以有點和客戶混在一起,有點不同的方法,取決於它是純投資還是投資/原則住宅。

Darren :我明白了,到目前為止,我已經做了很多採訪,我總想有一集,我們可以深入都市。就像在我的腦海裏,我想也許有一個穀歌地圖,我們分享給你荧幕,然後你可以穿過,和我一起穿過街區和街道。這是我們在下一集裏可以做的事情。但我們還是回到這個問題上來吧,因為我認為對於很多投資者來說,他們想知道從哪裡開始,因為溫哥華顯然有一些香港投資者關注多倫多、溫哥華、美國、馬來西亞,新加坡,很多不同的地方。所以這一集將聚焦於高階,高層次的層面。很明顯,在這一集的結尾,我們可以讓他們和你詳細談談發生了什麼。所以我還有一個問題,比如海外投資者在評估溫哥華的機會時應該注意哪些事項?你知道,這是件大事如果你能給他們一些建議,他們會很感激的。

Aaron:是的,我認為海外投資者最重要的部分之一,因為,你知道,加拿大一般來說,特別是不列顛哥倫比亞省,我們實際上有很多不同類型的稅,特別是涉及房地產的稅種。現在,最重要的是,如果你是一個海外投資者您不是公民或公關,需要額外繳納20%的外國買家稅。所以當你考慮到房產的價格時,20%的稅實際上是相當高的溢價,對吧。所以我想首先,最好是和房地產專業人士談談,然後他們可以給你建議方法構建您的購買結構,以儘量減少購買投資性房地產的實際結算成本和其他方面。

Darren :嗯,我明白了。所以回到這個話題上來,因為稅收顯然是一個大課題,很多人總是會說,“好吧,稅收,這是多少錢?“所以,就像剛才你說的對,我聽說有一項新的高端房產稅,比如說什麼。

Aaron:好吧,高端房產稅很有趣,他們這麼稱呼它,因為無論何時你購買房產在溫哥華或溫哥華大都會地區,他們有你所說的財產轉讓稅。所以買家實際上要支付政府徵收一項稅,將財產轉移到他們名下,這樣你就知道這是買家承擔了這些費用。所以傳統上這些稅是分層的當然,你知道,就像我們的所得稅一樣。而政府决定要做的,我認為2018年2月,他們又新增了一層房產轉讓稅。所以通常,假設你要買一棟房子,兩百萬或三百萬美元。你付的是你的第一層,那是200美元的百分之一千。然後你有20萬到200萬的百分之二。通常情况下,除非你買更高的東西,否則你就已經準備好了。現在他們得到的是超過300萬,還有另一項稅收,他們在那裡再加上2%。所以你最終要付5%以上的費用300萬美元,加起來就夠了。

Darren :這很貴。上帝啊。

Aaron:是的,是的,很難在短視頻中解釋,但是更多房產貴,稅越貴,就像不列顛哥倫比亞省一樣,也開始徵收豪華車稅,因為這有點瘋狂。

Darren :是的,在那之前,我實際上忽略了有點像你介意告訴聽眾關於財產轉讓稅的事,然後它是如何運作的嗎?

Aaron:是的,財產轉讓稅,通常是這些成本是買家應該知道的成本,因為當您在溫哥華購買任何類型的房產時,在交割時都要繳納物業稅。唯一的例外是,如果你購買的房產低於75萬美元,並且打算將其作為個人住宅居住,那麼免稅。但在大多數情况下,無論您購買的是商業地產還是任何類型的住宅,您都必須繳納財產轉讓稅。

Darren :我明白了。所以我認為稅是一個大話題,我相信人們可以就這一點與你取得更多聯系。但我想知道更多關於封鎖。這會對市場產生怎樣的影響,比如在現時這場流感大流行期間,投資者的機會在哪裡?

Aaron: 哦,很有趣因為已經很長時間了,我想很多人都是在繁華的大都會區,他們向我解釋價格可能會下降或者柔化,但在溫哥華,它實際上相當有彈性。我是說,在幾個月是因為,當然,你不希望人們在這段時間內觀看,對吧。但總的來說,我認為價格的影響較小。他們真的沒有下降多少。現在,隨著禁售政策的出臺,人們開始蜂擁而至,再次出手購買。我們在市場上看到了很多活動。

Darren :我明白了,我明白了。好吧,很好。我想知道是的,因為我在溫哥華失去聯繫有一段時間了,我有點不好意思這麼說因為我一直把溫哥華放在心裡,有沒有什麼時髦的地方能吸引很多年輕人願意付更多的租金呢。另外,還有什麼有很多商業活動值得人們去看的地方?

Aaron:所以我的意思是,就年輕觀眾而言,溫哥華市中心非常受歡迎,因為那裡是所有夜生活和中央商務區的所在地。所以我想說雅樂城一直都是在年輕人中很受歡迎,最近他們正在開發一個名為主街和金斯威,我不確定你是否還熟悉這個地區,快樂山地區。他們正在那裡建造更多的精品建築,似乎吸引了很多年輕人。所以這看起來很受歡迎一些年輕的投資者客戶,甚至是尋找第一套房的人。

Darren :我明白了。我覺得我很自私,因為我有點想問問自己,如果有一天我搬回去,這樣我就知道該去哪裡了。

Aaron:在你决定之前,我們一定會好好遊覽一下這個城市。

Darren :我要在穀歌地圖上瀏覽,比如到底哪條街,他們去不同的酒吧和俱樂部之類的東西有多快。所以,你知道,這很有趣,對吧?所以溫哥華在過去的幾年裏一直在文宣矽谷和荷里活北部的歲月,對吧。溫哥華有很多創業公司。有很多人總是試圖拍攝視頻現在溫哥華的電影,還有關係嗎?這對住宅方面的商業活動有何影響?

Aaron:你知道,這絕對是仍然相關,因為現在,實際上,亞馬遜仍然在市中心辦公。於是他們買下了那份舊的加拿大郵政現在他們正在發展成為一個非常大的亞馬遜辦公空間。當然,他們還有幾年前剛成立的微軟辦公室。Facebook正在向這裡進發,蘋果就像他們所說的北方矽谷。你知道,他們是溫哥華人。在電影行業,好吧,在過去的幾個月裏可能沒有那麼活躍,但總的來說,實際上有很多機會,房地產方面,特別是在短期租賃市場,很多這些名人都是電影明星。他們總是尋找短期住房,這對一些房東來說實際上是一筆利潤豐厚的生意。

Darren :很好。很好。這是我從溫哥華搬回來之前不知道的事情。我當時就想,哦,我當時還不知道那一幕。顯然,房地產和抵押貸款來吧,當涉及到抵押貸款時,您對海外投資者有什麼建議?

Aaron:我會說抵押貸款,因為現在的銀行,他們通常對外國投資非常開放,他們總是為外國投資者製定新的投資計畫。所以我想說最重要的是,您可以與抵押貸款經紀人或與加拿大銀行現有的銀行業務關係進行交談。一定要先和他們商量一下看看你的資格,然後你可以用你的預算去購物。

Darren :我明白了。好吧,然後像我一樣,我覺得我腦子裏還有很多問題,但很明顯我會留到下次再看,然後我們就可以在穀歌地圖上到處瀏覽,看看下一天大街上會發生這樣的事情第集。所以我想知道,當談到在溫哥華投資時,你會給觀眾什麼樣的建議和建議?

Aaron: 我想說的是我們房地產最大的一點,無論你投資的是什麼,你都想做出明智的决定。我在海外發現的一件事投資者中有很多人似乎不習慣與經紀人合作,因為我知道,例如,在某些市場,尤其是代理,他們擔心,他們必須支付更多的費用和其他的東西,買家的代理人帶他們到處轉轉。但事實上在溫哥華是如何運作的作為一個買家,他們實際上不需要為專業建議付出任何代價,這就是為什麼我總是建議,你知道,諮詢買家的代理商,帶你四處轉轉,因為他們知道自己在做什麼他們可以確保你得到充分的代表。同時也會提醒你任何注意事項,或者,你知道的,你計畫投資的某些房地產的東西。

Darren :]我明白了,我認為這很好,因為人們總是忘了這一點,人們總是四處打聽,但也許他們應該和你談談。人們應該多和你談談繼續。所以我知道我只是好奇,因為我們以前有過幾次電話。比如,我只想知道,除了做房地產經紀人之外,你還有什麼工作要做?

Aaron:現在,事實上,我有一些附帶項目。其中一點是我也在調查小企業,所以我實際上有一個很少有客戶希望真正收購業務。所以,你知道,在我們也與小企業主合作的網絡中。這也是我在這方面的工作,除了住宅銷售之類的。

Darren :我覺得太棒了。我想很多房地產行業的人都忘了你知道,你對那些在首都有錢的人有不同的風險敞口,然後很多人都有好主意,所以我認為現在是個好時機,尤其是在經濟衰退時期。所以很好公司往往會在這種情況下做出反應。所以我認為這一集有很多很好的購買量資訊。什麼外賣到目前為止,你希望觀眾在整個採訪過程中?

Aaron:我想說的是外賣積分,當然,如果你沒有參加溫哥華,去看看這個城市,尤其是夏天,你知道冬天可能會有點冷和多雨,但是最有可能去的人說他們肯定會愛上它。而且,你知道,就房地產而言,這在溫哥華非常流行。我總是鼓勵你去不同的社區,看看你喜歡什麼,因為,你知道,溫哥華,有一天結束後的生活方式,對吧?如果你打算投資或搬到都市裏去,當然,你知道,只是重申一下,如果你打算買房子,一定要有代表你的人,不要隨便走進一個開放式會議室,也不要打電話給經紀人,因為你知道,在大多數情况下,你可能得不到你購買房產的最佳代表。

Darren :很好。當你想瞭解更多關於溫哥華房地產市場的資訊時,我們將如何建議觀眾與你聯系。

Aaron:你可以通過我的經紀網站聯繫我,我有我的電子郵件和電話號碼。對於年輕觀眾,你也可以使用Instagram,儘管我應該經常更新,但我可以在面試後把資訊發給你。

Darren :是的,我會把一切都寫在節目單上,然後我只想說聲謝謝,因為我知道我們從未見過面,我們有過幾通電話和所有的一切,謝謝你,但是傑瑞,如果你聽了這篇介紹我們的文章,那麼我想在將來再做第二部分,深入瞭解社區,因為不僅僅是我自己,我想很多人都會欣賞它,比如溫哥華有很多不同的社區,甚至是都市本身。再次感謝你時間到了,我真的很感激。我希望你能加入我們下一集。

Aaron:是的,非常肯定。謝謝你的採訪。

Darren :不,謝謝。謝謝。以後再跟你說。再見。

That’s all for today. See you later!


Categories
Market Updates 未分類

Denzity Insights Transcript: Why Invest In UK Real Estate Now with Urosh Teodorovich

Why Invest In UK Real Estate Now with Urosh Teodorovich

Connect with Urosh:

WhatsApp:+852 6276 8567

Email: urosh.teodorovich@locations.com.hk 

About Locations Real Estate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10aDBoDgiig1tYISzZ_kwWemdMnSMOX1y/view?usp=sharing

The UK real estate market has been popular among overseas investors due to their historical stability in politics and economy. But with Brexit, Covid-19, and the global recession, the real estate market has been on the downturn for many years. As the market has shown signs of recovering, are there any opportunities left? Today, we have Urosh to share his view. In this episode, we covered some major key questions that a lot of people have, such as the impact of COVID-19 and how the British National (Overseas) visa scheme impacts the market. 

Urosh Teodorovich is the General Manager at Locations Real Estate. Locations is a Hong Kong-headquartered boutique property agency that offers expert advisory in overseas investments in addition to HK local market real estate services. His team consists of industry experts with extensive experience in the sector which gives clients confidence and peace of mind in making their decisions – whether that’s buying a £9 million penthouse in Central London or upsizing to a new rental property in Sai Kung.

  • Why invest in the UK property market?
  • Which areas to look into?
  • Why invest now?
  • Who are the potential investors?
  • What to keep in mind while investing?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

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Terminology & Source:

BREXIT Referendum: BREXIT is the acronym for British Exit and it refers to the UK’s decision to leave the EU.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/world/europe/what-is-brexit.html

Buy-to-let Investment: Buy-to-let investment, also known as invest-to-let is the process in which investors buy properties to rent it out to make profits from tenants’ rents.

https://www.rw-invest.com/buy-to-let-property/

BNO [British National Overseas] visa scheme: The BNO visa scheme allows eligible candidates to apply for a residence visa to live, study and work in the UK.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-hong-kong-citizens-uk-visas-passports-live-work-britain-2020-7

Stamp Duty: Stamp duty is a kind of tax that is imposed in the form of stamps on legal documents by the government while buying a property.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stampduty.asp

Stamp Duty Holiday: A stamp duty holiday that is supposed to run till March 2021 was announced by chancellor Rishi Sunak, meaning homebuyers in England and Northern Ireland will be exempt from stamp duty when buying homes up to £500,000.

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Shout out to our video creator:

Patina Design Lab is a strategic design consultancy firm that helps businesses with a wide range of design services.

http://www.patinadesignlab.com/

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Darren: Hey Urosh, welcome to the show.

Urosh: Hi, everyone, I’m Urosh Teodorovich. I’m the general manager at Locations real estate. Locations is a Hong Kong headquartered boutique property agency which offers expert advisory in overseas investments, as well as also in the Hong Kong local market. Our team consists of industry experts with extensive experience in the sector which of course gives our clients peace of mind in making their decisions. Whether that’s buying a £9 million penthouse in Central London or upsizing to a new rental property in Saikung.

Darren: Yeah, this is a very exciting topic because I’m sure we all know here that the ties between UK and Hong Kong are very strong. And then I was looking for someone from UK to tell us more about what’s going on because there has been a lot of things happening in the UK for the past couple years. And a lot of people are more and more interested in looking to UK investment. So thanks coming in. And thanks for making the effort to be and share with everyone here.

Urosh: My pleasure. Thanks very much for the invitation.

Darren: Yeah. So to start with, for people who might not be familiar with UK, would you mind briefly explaining to the audience the breaches in the UK that oversea real estate investors tend to invest and at the same time, how do you distinguish the area in terms of risk and reward?

Urosh: Sure no problem. Obviously, it’s one of the most important questions that gets asked. I would say broadly speaking, UK investment typically centers on London, it always has – capital city, it makes sense. But in recent years, this has developed into other very important second tier cities. I’d say that after London, I’d say Manchester then Birmingham and Liverpool have been core areas of focus. Now, when you mentioned risk reward, of course, this will depend somewhat on the needs of the individual investor and what their requirements are and in a sense how much they’re willing to expose themselves to risk. So, broadly speaking, let’s say the more blue chip investment areas, so, you know, looking at prime central London so even someone unfamiliar with London would be familiar with places like Knightsbridge and Chelsea and what have you. These sorts of areas on a longer timeline will usually be safe, but they might not have the same percentile game potential is that’s a fringe redevelopment areas. So places like Stratford or Ealing, which are along the cross rail project in London. Or for that same logic, any of the Northern powerhouse cities such as Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, which I’ve already mentioned, but of course, any potential upsets market will likely impact those areas first, and it depends on always, you know, the need to liquidate an asset at short notice. So anywhere where there is always going to be you know, a stronger demand in those kind of blue chip areas, they will be safer but it’s such that they demand higher prices.

Darren: Hmm, that’s kind of cool because like in Hong Kong, right, obviously, we see a lot of real estate opportunities from different places in UK. And like obviously, I think this episode’s focus is more on the big picture and I think maybe in the future like in round two, we can do specific different regions because in real estate the most important thing is, how do we know where or which place has opportunity miles away? So with those areas you just mentioned right, are there any areas you think are overrated or underrated?

Urosh: Well, so I actually mentioned Knightsbridge by name, so that actually brings me a good point into what I say is perhaps the more overrated but I’ll need to explain a little bit more detailed. So the ultra-luxe or what we could also describe as the super prime areas –  these world famous parts of London I mentioned Knightsbridge you Harrods department store is extremely popular with, you know a lot of our Far Eastern buyers who might know that as their key London landmark, more so in Buckingham Palace in some respect. But in these areas, you’ve got prices per square foot which are comparable to Hong Kong’s top residential areas. And yet most of these properties come without gyms with pools or any of these other facilities by comparison. So I would say that these can be seen as somewhat overrated, overrated especially with the prices that they command. But that being said, in the current market conditions transactions are down roughly 53% according to a recent report, and Bill prices in areas like Knightsbridge itself have fallen as much as 33% from the previous peak. I personally think this kind of price drop for the people that really really want to be in these ultra primaries could reinvigorate demand as people start hunting for these ultra-luxe bargains.

On the other hand looking at, let’s say the more underrated side. Now this will be a bit of an interesting one because it’s not so much an area so much as a type of investment I think is a bit underrated. So I’m sure as anyone who has even started to consider looking at overseas investment, they will know that you can’t go to any hotel in Hong Kong on a weekend, perhaps now with the Coronavirus. It’s a little bit different but in normal times, you would go in every single exhibition room, whether one was in the Excelsior, the former Excelsior Hotel in Causeway Bay, all the way to the Mandarin or the Marco Polo on Kowloon side. You can’t go to any exhibition room without there being a property exhibition and that could be Bangkok. Could be London, could be Manchester, could be New York could be LA, Sydney, there were projects all over the world. And I would say that the sheer number of UK developments being sold off plan across Greater China so including, you know, not just Hong Kong, but Shanghai, Beijing, what have you. I think the number of these developments coming out where they’re, you know, of course, every agency that is putting up these projects is going to say that they’ve got the best project in London or the best project in Manchester. And so I know from personal experience speaking to a number of my clients that many have found it difficult to navigate the options available. And this is actually where I think expert advice becomes most important. I would say that because some people have tended to get a bit put off by off plan or a new build investment. I would say that to consider this: If an investor has no intention of ever living or using and living in or using a property for themselves, then I would say that new build projects in both London and in the north of England can often be bought at this exact unusual time with fairly substantial discounts. And these properties also in most cases come with, let’s say 5 to 10 year builders guarantees for the property anywhere in like I said anywhere from five to 10 years depending on the project. Now, given that everything is new in a new built, this makes for a very low hassle investment because landlords over in Hong Kong or Shanghai or Guangzhou or wherever, they don’t need to worry about boilers stopping working, or radiators leaking or old copper wiring that needs to be replaced, or any of these other very real and very important issues that can face buyers who purchase a period property by comparison. So for this reason, I think yes, there’s a lot of different projects out there but with the right advice, choosing the right project can be a very sensible and shouldn’t be I don’t think it should be sidelined as a potential investment option.

Darren: Thanks for the detailed explanation because like I told you before I used to work in the fund, a real estate fund that focuses on UK asset too and I felt that they’re pretty similar when it comes to like UK asset because, you know, there’s a lot of things changing in the past couple years and I think that right now it’s a good time to go in, which obviously we talked about UK market you cannot not talk about Brexit still and what kind of impact – Yeah, I mean, we both know it’s a long impact, but you know, how has it changed since the Brexit has formally confirmed and then from the past and currently your outlook, how does Brexit impact the market in your point of view?

Urosh: So I think there are two ways to look at this. Look, from my personal perspective, I think that Brexit really shook up the market most with the initial referendum back in 2016. Okay, I think that that’s probably where the biggest repercussions felt, let’s say on on the property side, as you know, working within the industry and helping clients to invest overseas. That was the time where we saw the biggest impact that would affect your average investor, let’s put it that way. I mean, since then, I would say that the most major effect that’s been happening, you know, that has happened or that you know, will continue to be the case is that the GBP has been kept extremely low. There’s a lot of pessimism about the UK, you know, about its economy, about the political future about trading opportunities and so forth. And as a result, it’s kept the sterling at a very low level essentially for the last four years, and I would say that on top of all of the excellent reasons that there are to invest in the UK, interestingly enough, one source, I’d recommend Sables, they’ve got an excellent research team. And on their blogs recently, they’ve been doing a series of posts, I’d recommend any one of my clients or anyone interested in this aspect to go check them out. Because they talk about the price of acquiring, holding and selling properties at off the top of my head, I believe it’s $650,000 US dollars equivalent, $2 million US dollars equivalent, and then I think they do an ultra-luxe series of five or ten, I can’t quite remember the top one. But this is a very useful guide because what it shows is that Britain typically and London specifically ranks in the cheapest to buy, hold and sell of any of the major world cities I mean, when you think about Hong Kong stamp duty, it’s London, even at the top tier for luxury properties, it’s a veritable bargain. But I would say that from the Brexit perspective, you’ve got this currency play angle. So, on top of all of the other reasons to invest in the UK, you know, ultimately, it’s stood through many different issues historically. And, you know, Brexit is just whether one is for or against, it is simply seen by most as just another thing that will be you know, that will be addressed, handled, and that ultimately is just another step on the sort of route forward, she’s a bit of a cliche but yes. 

Darren: Yeah, that’s good. You know I now think time is this right Brexit is one other variables, how about COVID-19 because I remember that a lot of people I know who works for UK deal, they said that like, “Oh before Covid, it’s been getting really popular and then the market died again from COVID-19.” So it has been a while already, and then how has the virus impacted in the real estate market? And then where are we right now do you think?

Urosh: Well, I’m always happy to say this to clients right now is I get to give you some news with a big smile, which is that for a rare situation, I would say that really Coronavirus has in the only possible small benefit I can see has given a situation where it is much more of a buyers market at this time. I think that you mentioned about your own contacts. I’ve seen exactly the same thing. I’m calling you know my associates in London from when I was in Hong Kong or calling you know, and now seeing on the ground here in London the situation. I would say that very simply it froze the market. I think when it went into lockdown down a lot of people were really excited they were talking about this Boris bounce, you know that the market was bouncing back, transactions were going up and there was a real atmosphere of positivity earlier this year. Then unfortunately of course, Coronavirus happened, it’s caused huge impacts not just to the UK but worldwide. And I think that the simplest way to describe this is even deals which were quite far along were ground to a complete standstill. And I think that many sellers as a result, you know, let’s put it this way. They all thought, “Okay, fine. It’ll be one month, maybe of lock down.” Then one month passes, “Okay, maybe two months” and I don’t think anyone anticipated it would quite go on as long as it has. Why is this good news for any potential buyers? Well, a lot of sellers are increasingly motivated to sell for different reasons. And as such, I would say that buyers coming in from overseas are in a slightly more emboldened position in that they, you know, I think until recently, Hong Kong had a much less detrimental Coronavirus situation than comparable other Western European or even, you know, sort of North American locations. But what I would say is that with these buyers coming in from Hong Kong, they have the opportunity now to be quite aggressive in their offering. And I think that that is the discount levels that I’ve been able to achieve off of asking price for my clients is something that I haven’t seen. I don’t think I’ve seen this sort of level in the last five to eight years easily.

Darren: I see. Yeah, you know, I found a lot of people are more urgent recently. I think they talked about a lot about the stamp duty changes. And would you also elaborate on that as well and how it will impact the real estate market.

Urosh: So, the way that this stamp duty holiday works is actually very simple. It is a measure that was introduced to boost the transaction volume, which I actually mentioned earlier that there was a recent Coutts, which is the bank that they produced a report saying that transaction volumes were down in the region of 53%. Now, obviously, in a move to bid to increase in a bid sorry to increase the number of transactions in the market, the Conservative government here has implemented this stamp duty holiday. Now this applies to any properties which are purchased but which complete before the 31st of March, on or before the 31st of March 2020. Now this I would say as as expert advice I would say that this is great for anyone looking at particularly into Manchester or Birmingham or Liverpool because at £500,000 of course you could find different properties in London but they might not be as centrally located but with a budget of £500,000 pounds really you can have the sort of top tier ultra prime of Manchester Birmingham or what have you. Now, these properties up to half a million pounds sterling are completely Stamp Duty Free provide they complete so that means the project complete and it’s ready to live in before the 31st of March 2020. However, and this is an important however that I think is a distinction a lot of you know buyers in Hong Kong or across Greater China would be interested to know. Unless you are a first time buyer looking to live in that property and are a British subject, overseas buyers, and or second home buyers are what they call landlords, so buy to let investors will still have to pay the usual additional 3% stamp duty on their acquisition. So, it’s important because I would say that people telling investors that it is completely without stamp duty, even if they’re, you know, an investor based in Guangzhou, who is never going to live there and just wants to rent it out. There will still be some stamp duty requirement. But that’s not to say that they aren’t saving a pretty substantial amount of money by purchasing within this window. So as a result, I would say all transactions that we’ve been doing for the most part have been below £500,000 and in the north of England, but that has been for buyers wanting to take advantage of the stamp duty aspect.

Darren: I see. No, it’s good, because like you clarify a lot of things that I have questions for too. And then, you know, we both know, I’m in Hong Kong and you cannot not ask us this question is that how would the new the BNO (British National Overseas) visa scheme like, you know, potentially impact the markets because I think that’s a topic that I told my friends about asking you this question, they’re like, “Oh, my God, this you have to ask, I don’t know what hell is going on.” So would you like to elaborate on that?

1-2 minutes cut off, Urosh re-answered question

Urosh: Sure, actually, I’d be very happy to answer this question because of course it’s something on everyone’s minds at the moment, the newspapers, both in Hong Kong and in the UK are reporting heavily on this new BNO scheme due to start next January. We ourselves, Locations Real Estate has partnered with a top immigration solicitor here in the UK to offer initially free consultation and then advice on the quickest path to take on to Japan. But I would say that the simplest way to describe what the impact of that will be as far as I see it, is that having spoken to a number of my clients and especially some of the more conservative ones, because of course, this is a political hot topic. I think the international political wrangling of this, you know, we don’t have – I wish I had one but I don’t have a crystal ball. I can’t see in the future as to what different you know international superpass will do. But assuming that the BNO visa program is able to go ahead, I would say that even on a conservative basis, my clients anticipate in the region of 100,000 to Hong Kong, Chinese families, who would likely take advantage of this and as a result, relocate to the UK. Now, if you figure that the average Hong Kong Chinese buyer from I can say anecdotally, from my experience, but I, you know, many of my colleagues and I have always prepared notes on this, generally speaking, Hong Kong Chinese buyer goes in for £750,000 up to around 1.2 million, if they’re buying a buy to let investment in London. Now, if you times, you know, even the midpoint of those numbers by 100,000, it starts to become quite a bit dramatic number, and that’s the amount of money that is potentially going to be coming into the UK market. And, you know, Hong Kong people, I’m guilty of this myself having, you know, been born and bred in Hong Kong and I’m living there for three generations, we are used to a city where we have very close public transport where everything’s easy to get to. And I would say that we expect that anywhere we’d really want to go, we should be able to get there in about 15 minutes. London of course, it’s very massive geographically so it’s quite different. As such, I think the biggest impact is going to be that Prime areas, very convenient locations, areas which are desirable, are probably going to be targeted quite heavily by these incoming buyers. Now, that said, Hong Kong buyers, in my experience, are extremely savvy and they’re very good at sniffing out a good deal. And I would say that, you know, I mentioned that I thought that super prime in some cases was overrated, and I stand by that, but I would say that on the other hand, being clever and navigating the market such that, you know, if you know that a road over here will be, you know, £3000 per square foot, but just a seven minute walk over this way. It might be, you know, £1005 or £2000, or what have you, you can actually buy tactically and end up living in some of London’s very very good postcodes without having to pay that top dollar for it. And I would say that in some respects you know, what Locations have been doing is creating that link between London and Hong Kong such that even for buyers who are less familiar with it, we can explain what London is like in terms of Hong Kong and I think that having that you know, that local market knowledge on both sides is incredibly important.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. I think that’s the struggle with investing in UK because people have a very emotional tie, people in Hong Kong and at the same time people keep forgetting that it’s not Hong Kong. So there are a lot things that it makes sense to us in Hong Kong, how it works, it doesn’t necessarily make sense in UK and they need someone on the ground that actually understands UK to explain to people in detail like, hey, maybe if you’re living there, it’d be different than you actually investing or how is it like, what is it going to be like and what should you do about it, which comes to my next question right, what advice and tips can you give the audience if they’re interested in investing in the UK properties, regardless if they’re from Hong Kong or China or somewhere else?

Urosh: So I know this might seem like a cliche or like a marketing pitch from someone in the industry, but honestly, I can’t stress this enough. Have a good agent. I think making sure that you have a good rapport with, you know, whomever you have as your agent and making sure that they understand your personal requirements and objectives. Too many agents will send absolutely anything to all of their clients all the time and you know, the kind of hopefully something will stick approach. In most cases, you know, I’ve spoken to a lot of my clients and their previous experience was that agents would send them anything and anything and anything. And eventually, the hope was that the client would actually choose something because they were exhausted not because they found something they actually wanted. This is what I would describe, frankly, as a bad agent, but unfortunately, it’s a very common practice. Now, from the client side, I’d say that a tip for what they can do as well as themselves is to communicate, to be clear with your agent. Always ask as many questions as possible. And this might seem crazy, but be as specific as you can. I would be from my experience working you know, in this sector and especially dealing with ultra high net worths, where they tend to get the best opportunities at £25, £30, £35 million mark, the reason they find these amazing properties and they find the ones that are right for them is because they’re willing to spend an hour, an hour and a half, two hours, just talking about what they want and what more importantly, they don’t want. And a good agent will listen to all of this, take this all down. And we’ll never put a property in front of a client that they don’t think that they’ll like. And the very best agents will actually be able to say, “Look, this isn’t quite what you – this isn’t quite what you said you were looking for, but I think you’ll like it, have a look,  what do you think?” And that kind of relationship is totally invaluable. And frankly, it really doesn’t matter whether a client is buying for £200,000 in Liverpool, or whether a client is buying for £50 million  in London. At the end of the day they should should be getting the same quality of service and they should also be getting the same quality of advice.

Darren: That’s really good because I think that’s what Denzity also wants to do, because we felt that there’s a lot of bad players out there. There’s good players, great players. There’s a lot of bad players and a lot of people keep forgetting that you have options. And hopefully someone like you – we’ll find more people like you to help more clients and help more people because reality is that, you know, it’s very hard sometimes to understand these concepts because real estate is not something that everyone knows about it. Everyone has a familiar experience with it. So I just want to say thanks for your time because there are a lot of things that even in my head I might want to go into deep detail. But before we go right, would you mind telling the audience how they can find you and reach out to you for more details and more surface?

Urosh: Certainly, so if you’re interested in finding out more about investment opportunities in the UK, or if you’d simply like to arrange a free real estate consultation, please feel free to contact me directly. I’m Urosh, my number is +85262768567. And I can be reached by that by caller, by WhatsApp. Or you can email me at Urosh.teodeorovich@locations.com.hk.

Darren: Yeah, and I have everything in the show notes. And then obviously, I’ll include everything you just said. And I want to say thanks for your time. I’m sure a lot of people who watch this will appreciate your insight because like, even a lot of things you said before, it’s different than other guests we have. You’re very detailed in explaining to people and really want them to understand what’s going on so I hope that you’ll come back for round two in the future and then again, thanks for your time.

Urosh: It’s absolutely my pleasure and I look forward to the next time we’re able to speak on a maybe even more specific topic.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much.

Urosh: My pleasure. Thank you very much. Speak soon. Bye bye.

Darren: Bye!

===

Darren :嗨,Urosh,歡迎你來表演。

Urosh: 大家好,我是Urosh Teodorovich。我是Locations公司的總經理。Locations是一家總部設在香港房地產代理機构,為海外投資與香港投資者當地市場。我們的團隊由行業專家組成,在這一領域擁有豐富經驗,這當然給我們的客戶帶來信任。無論是在倫敦市中心買一棟價值900萬英鎊的頂層公寓,還是在西貢的一處新的出租房產。

Darren :是的,這是一個非常令人興奮的話題,因為我相信我們都知道,英國和香港的關係非常緊密。然後我在找一個英國專家告訴我們更多關於過去幾年英國發生了很多事情。很多人越來越有興趣尋求英國投資。所以謝謝你來。感謝你努力與每一個人分享。

Urosh:我的榮幸。非常感謝你的邀請。

Darren :是的。首先,對於那些可能不熟悉英國的人,你能不能簡單地向聽眾解釋一下,在英國,海外房地產投資者傾向於投資,同時,你如何區分風險和回報方面的地區?

Urosh: 沒問題。顯然,這是被問到的最重要的問題之一。我要說的是英國投資通常以倫敦為中心,它總是有-首都,這是有合理的。但近年來,這已經發展成為重要二線都市。我想說的是,在倫敦之後,曼徹斯特、伯明罕和利物浦都是焦點所在。現在,當你提到風險報酬時,當然,這在某種程度上取決於個人投資者的需求以及他們的要求是什麼他們願意冒多大的風險。所以,廣義地說,讓我們假設更多的藍籌股投資領域,所以,你知道,看看倫敦市中心即使是不熟悉倫敦的人也會對騎士橋和切爾西之類的地方很熟悉。這些領域的時間跨度很長通常是安全的,但他們可能沒有相同的百分比特遊戲潜力,因為這是一個邊緣再開發地區。所以像斯特拉特福德或伊林,在倫敦的交叉鐵路項目沿線。或者按照同樣的邏輯,任何北方像曼徹斯特、利物浦、伯明罕這樣的大城市,我已經提到過了,但當然,任何潜在的混亂市場都可能首先影響這些地區,而且這取決於是否需要在短時間內清算資產。所以任何地方都有要知道,在這些藍籌股領域,需求更大,他們會更安全,但他們要求更高的價格。

Darren :嗯,這有點酷,因為像香港一樣,對吧,很明顯,我們在英國看到了很多不同地方的房地產機會。很明顯,我認為這一集的重點是大局,我想也許未來像第二輪,我們可以做具體的不同區域,因為在房地產領域,最重要的是,我們如何知道幾英里以外的地方或哪一個地方有機會?所以對於你剛才提到的那些領域,你是否認為有些領域被高估或低估了?

Urosh:好吧,所以我實際上提到了騎士橋的名字,所以這實際上給了我一個很好的觀點,我所說的也許是被高估了,但我需要解釋得更詳細一點。囙此,超豪華或者我們也可以稱之為超級黃金地段——我提到的倫敦的這些舉世聞名的地方騎士橋你哈樂德百貨公司非常受歡迎,你知道我們的很多遠東買家可能知道,作為他們倫敦的重要地標,在某些方面白金漢宮更是如此。但在這些地區,每平方英尺的價格與香港頂級住宅區相當。然而,相比之下,這些房產中的大多數都沒有帶游泳池的健身房或其他設施。所以我想說,這些可以被視為有點高估了,尤其是在他們所掌握的價格上。但也就是說,根據最近的一份報告,在現時的市場條件下,交易量下降了大約53%,騎士橋等地區的票據價格也比上一個峰值下跌了33%。我個人認為,當人們開始尋找這些超豪華的特價資產時,這種價格下降對於真正想參加這些來說可能會重新激發需求。另一方面,讓我們來看看被低估的一面。現在這將是有點有趣,因為與其說它是一個領域,不如說是一種我認為有點低估的投資類型。所以我敢肯定,作為任何已經開始考慮海外投資,他們會知道你週末不能去香港的任何一家旅館,也許現在染上了冠狀病毒。它是一個有點不同,但在正常情况下,你會去每一個展覽室,不管是在銅鑼灣原怡東飯店,一直到九龍那邊的Mandarin或馬可波羅。如果沒有房地產展,你就不能去任何一個展覽室曼谷。雪梨,整個倫敦都有可能。我會說在大灣區出售的英國樓盤數量之多,不僅包括香港,還有上海、北京,你有什麼。我認為這些開發專案的數量,你知道,當然,每一個提出這些項目的機构會說他們有倫敦最好的項目或者曼徹斯特最好的項目。從我和我的客戶交談的經驗來看許多人發現很難找到可用的選項。這就是我認為專家建議最重要的地方。我之所以這麼說,是因為有些人往往會因為計畫外的計畫或新的建設投資而有些拖延。考慮到這一點,我想說:如果一個投資者不打算為自己居住或使用、居住或使用房產,那麼我會說,在這兩個領域新建項目倫敦和英格蘭北部通常可以在這個不尋常的時間以相當大的折扣買到。在大多數情况下,這些房地產都會有5到10年的建築商擔保,就像我這樣根據項目的不同,從5年到10年不等。現在,考慮到新建築的所有東西都是新的,這使得投資非常簡單,因為在香港、上海、廣州或任何地方的房東,他們不必擔心鍋爐停止工作,散熱器漏水或是舊銅需要更換的佈線,或購買期房的買家可能面臨的任何其他非常現實和非常重要的問題。囙此,我認為是的,有很多不同的項目,但是如果有正確的建議,選擇正確的項目是非常明智的不應該,我不認為這是一個潜在的投資選擇。

Darren :謝謝你的詳細解釋,因為[00:08:20]就像之前告訴過你我在基金工作那樣,這是一家房地產基金,也關注英國資產,我覺得他們在喜歡英國資產方面非常相似因為,你知道,在過去的幾年裏,很多事情都在發生變化,我認為現在是進入的好時機,很明顯,我們談到了英國市場,你不能不談英國脫歐還有什麼影響-是的,我的意思是,我們都知道這是一個長期的影響,但是你知道,自從英國脫歐正式確認之後,它發生了什麼變化從您過去和現在的展望來看,您認為英國脫歐對市場有何影響?

Urosh:所以我認為有兩種方法來看待這個問題。聽著,從我個人的角度來看,我認為在2016年的首次公投中,英國脫歐對市場的震動最大。好吧,我認為這可能是最大的反響,比如說在房地產方面,你知道,在行業內工作,幫助客戶投資海外。那是我們看到影響你的普通投資者的最大影響的時候,讓我們這樣說吧。我的意思是,從那以後,我要說的是,你知道,已經發生或你知道的,最主要的影響將繼續是英鎊一直保持在極低水準。人們對英國有很多悲觀情緒,你知道的,對經濟,關於政治未來,關於貿易機會等等。囙此,英鎊匯率一直保持在很低的水准在過去的四年裏,我要說的是,除了所有值得投資的理由之外英國,有趣的是,有一個消息來源,我推薦Saviies,他們有一個優秀的研究團隊。最近在他們的部落格上,他們做了一個系列在文章中,我會推薦我的任何客戶或任何對這方面感興趣的人去看看。因為他們談論的是收購、持有和出售房產,我相信相當於65萬美元,相當於200萬美元,然後我想他們做了一個超豪華系列,有五個或十個,我不太記得其中的一個了。但這是一個非常有用的指南,因為它表明英國一般來說,倫敦是世界上購買、持有和出售最便宜的國家之一我的意思是,當你想到香港印花稅時,它是倫敦,即使是在最頂級的豪華物業,這是一個真正的便宜貨。但我要說的是,從英國脫歐的角度來看,你有這個匯率遊戲的角度。所以,除了投資於英國,你知道,歸根結底,它經歷了許多不同的歷史問題。而且,你知道,脫歐只是一個人支持還是支持相反,大多數人只是把它看作是另一件事,你知道,它會被解决,處理,最終這只是前進道路上的又一步,有點老套,但沒錯。

Darren :是的,那很好。你知道我現在認為時間是正確的脫歐是另一個變數,那麼COVID-19呢,因為我記得我認識的很多為英國協定工作的人,他們說,“哦,在COVID之前,它變得非常流行,然後市場又因COVID-19而死亡。”所以已經有一段時間了,然後病毒是如何影響進來的房地產市場?你覺得我們現在在哪裡?

Urosh:好吧,我現在很高興對客戶說這一點,我可以很高興地告訴你一”笑”,對於一種罕見的情况,我想說真正的冠狀病毒我能看到的一點好處是,它現在更像是一個買方市場。我認為你提到過你自己的連絡人。我也看到過同樣的事情。我打電話給你,我在香港時認識我在倫敦的同事,或者打電話給你知道,現在在倫敦看到的情况。我想說的很簡單,它凍結了市場。我想當它進入封鎖,很多人都很興奮他們在談論Boris的反彈,你知道市場正在反彈,交易量在上升,而且今年早些時候的積極氣氛。然後不幸的是,冠狀病毒發生了,它不僅對英國造成了巨大的影響,而且全世界。我認為,最簡單的描述管道是,即使是很久以前的交易,也會變成完全停止。所以我認為很多賣家,你知道,讓我們這樣說吧。他們都想,“好吧,好吧。會是一個一個月,也許是禁閉期。“然後一個月過去了,“好吧,也許兩個月”,我想沒人預料到它會持續這麼久這對潜在買家來說是個好消息?很多賣家出於不同的原因越來越傾向於銷售。囙此,我要說的是,來自海外買家在這方面的膽子更大一些他們,你知道,我認為直到最近,香港有很多比起其他西歐國家,或者甚至,你知道的,危害性更小的冠狀病毒北美地區。但我要說的是,這些買家從香港來,現在他們有機會在他們的獻祭中表現得相當積極。我認為這就是我為客戶要價所能達到的折扣水准是我沒見過的。我不認為在過去的五到八年裏我見過這樣的水准。

Darren :我明白了。是啊,你知道,我發現最近很多人都比較急。我想他們談了很多關於印花稅的變化。您能否也詳細說明一下這一點,以及它將如何影響房地產市場。

Urosh: 所以,這個印花稅假期的運作管道其實很簡單。這是一項旨在促進交易量,我之前提到過,最近有一家銀行發佈了一份報告,稱交易量下降了53%。現在,很明顯,為了新增為了新增市場交易數量,保守黨政府實施了這個印花稅假期。現在這個適用於已購買但在2020年3月31日或之前完工的任何物業。現在作為專家的建議,我想說這對任何人來說都是非常好的尤其是在曼徹斯特、伯明罕或利物浦,因為50萬英鎊當然可以在倫敦找到不同的房產,但它們可能不是位於中心位置,但預算為500,000英鎊,您可以擁有頂級的房產曼徹斯特,伯明罕,或者其他什麼地方。現在,這些高達50萬英鎊的房產完全是印花稅免費提供他們完成,這意味著項目完成,並準備在2020年3月31日前入住。然而,這是一個重要的不過,我認為這是一個區別,很多香港或大中華區的買家都有興趣知道。除非你是希望居住在該房產的首次購房者,是英國人,海外買家,和/或第二套住房的購買者就是他們所說的房東,所以買房出租的投資者仍然需要支付通常額外的3%的印花稅他們的收購。所以,這一點很重要,因為我要說的是,人們告訴投資者這一點完全沒有印花稅,即使他們,你知道,是一個在廣州的投資者,永遠不會住在那裡,只想租出去。還會有一些印花稅要求。但這並不是說他們在這個視窗內購買並沒有節省相當可觀的錢。囙此,我會假設我們所做的所有交易大部分都低於500,000英鎊,而且在英格蘭北部,但是對於那些想要購買的買家來說印花稅方面的優勢。

Darren :我明白了。不,這很好,因為像你一樣澄清了很多我也有疑問的事情。然後,你知道,我們都知道,我在香港,你不能不問我們這個問題是,新的英國國民海外簽證計畫會對市場影響?因為我想這是我告訴我的朋友們要問你這個問題的一個話題,他們會說,“哦,天哪,你必須問這個,我不知道到底發生了什麼事。”所以你想詳細說明一下嗎?

Urosh:當然,我很樂意回答這個問題,因為現在每個人都在想這個問題,香港和英國的報紙都在大量報導這項定於明年1月開始實施的BNO新計畫。我們自己,Locations Real Estate已經與英國的一比特頂級移民律師合作,提供最初的免費諮詢,然後就前往最快路徑提供建議。但是我想說的是,就我看來,最簡單的方式來描述這將產生什麼樣的影響,就是在與我的一些客戶,特別是一些比較保守的客戶交談後,當然,這是一個政治熱門話題。我認為國際政治爭論,你知道,我們沒有-我希望我有一個,但我沒有一個水晶球。我不知道將來會發生什麼不同的是,你知道國際超級通行證可以。但假設BNO簽證計畫能够在前面,我要說,即使是保守的基礎上,我的客戶預計,香港的中國家庭大約有10萬人,他們可能會這樣做的好處是,遷移到英國。現在,如果你認為香港中國買家的平均水準,根據我的經驗,但我,你知道,我和我的許多同事一直都在準備這方面的筆記,一般來說,香港的中國買家出價75萬英鎊以上如果他們在倫敦買了一個買一賣的投資,大約120萬。現在,如果你乘以,你知道,甚至是那些數位的中點到了100,000,這個數位開始變得有點戲劇性,這就是可能進入英國市場的資金量。而且,你們知道,香港人,我自己對此感到內疚,你們知道,在香港出生和長大,我在那裡生活了三代,我們是過去是一個公共交通非常便利的都市。我想說的是,無論我們想去哪裡,我們應該能在15分鐘內趕到那裡。倫敦當然,它的地理位置非常大,所以很不一樣。囙此,我認為最大的影響是在黃金地段,非常便利的位置,理想的區域,很可能會成為重點目標這些新來的買家。現在,也就是說,以我的經驗,香港買家非常精明善於嗅出一筆好買賣。我要說的是,你知道,我提到我認為在某些情况下,超級素數被高估了,我堅持不過,我想說的是,從另一個角度來說,如果你知道這裡會有一條路,每平方英尺3,000英鎊,但從這條路走七分鐘就到了。它可能是,你知道的,1005英鎊或2000英鎊,或者你擁有什麼,你實際上可以在策略上購買,最終住在倫敦一些非常好的郵遞區號,而不必為此支付最高的一美元。我想說的是尊敬的各位,您知道,我們在倫敦和香港之間建立了聯系,即使是對那些不太熟悉的買家來說熟悉這一點,我們可以解釋一下倫敦在香港的情况,我認為,擁有了這一點,雙方的本地市場知識非常重要。

Darren :是的,當然。我認為這就是在英國投資的困難,因為人們有一種非常情緒化的聯系,在香港的人,同時人們總是忘記這不是香港。所以在香港有很多事情對我們來說是有意義的,它是如何運作的,在英國不一定有意義,他們需要一個在當地真正瞭解英國的人向人們詳細解釋,比如,嘿,如果你住在那裡,可能會和你實際投資不同,或者投資會怎麼樣,會是什麼樣子你該怎麼辦呢?我的下一個問題是,如果聽眾有興趣投資英國房產,不管他們來自香港、中國還是其他地方,你能給他們什麼建議和建議?

Urosh:所以我知道這看起來像是陳詞濫調,或者是業內人士的行銷文宣,但老實說,我再強調也不够。找個好員代理人。我想確保你和,你的代理人,確保他們瞭解你的個人要求和目標。太多了經紀人會一直給他們所有的客戶發送任何東西,你知道,那種希望能持續下去的方法。在大多數情况下,你知道,我和我的很多客戶談過,他們以前的經驗是特工會給他們寄任何東西什麼都行。最終,希望客戶會選擇一些東西,因為他們已經筋疲力盡,而不是因為他們找到了他們真正想要的東西。我就是這麼想的坦白地說,描述為一個壞經紀人,但不幸的是,這是一種非常普遍的做法。現在,從客戶方面來說,我想說的是他們自己就是要和你的經紀人溝通清楚。總是問盡可能多的問題。這看起來很瘋狂,但是盡可能具體。我會根據我的工作經驗,你知道,在這個行業,尤其是與超級高淨值人士,他們往往以25英鎊、30英鎊、3500萬英鎊的大關獲得最佳機會,這就是他們找到的原因這些令人驚奇的特性,他們找到了適合他們的,是因為他們願意花一個小時,一個半小時,兩個小時,僅僅談論他們所擁有的想要,更重要的是,他們不想要。一個好的經紀人會聽這些,把這些都記下來。我們永遠不會把財產放在客戶面前他們認為他們不會喜歡的。最好的經紀人會說,“聽著,這不是你說的你要找的東西,但我想你會喜歡的,看看,你覺得怎麼樣?”這種關係是非常寶貴的。坦白地說,它無論客戶是在利物浦以20萬英鎊的價格購買,還是在倫敦以5000萬英鎊的價格購買,都無關緊要。最後他們應該應該得到相同質量的服務,他們也應該得到同樣質量的建議。

Darren :這真的很好,因為我認為Denzity也希望這樣做,因為我們覺得外面有很多壞經紀人。有優秀的經紀人,偉大的經紀人。有很多不好的經紀人,很多人總是忘記你有選擇。希望有人喜歡你-我們會找到更多像你這樣的人來幫助更多的客戶,幫助更多的人,因為事實是,你知道,有時候很難理解這些概念,因為房地產不是每個人都知道的東西它。每個人都有熟悉的經驗。所以我只想對你的時間表示感謝,因為有很多事情,即使在我的腦海裏,我也可能想深入探討。但在我們走之前,你介意告訴我觀眾如何找到您,並向您尋求更多細節和更多表面資訊?

Urosh:當然,如果你有興趣瞭解更多關於英國的投資機會,或者你只是想安排一次免費的房地產諮詢,請隨時與我直接聯系。我是Urosh,我的號碼是+85262768567。打電話的人,WhatsApp都能聯系到我。或者你可以發郵件給我Urosh.teodeorovich@locations.com.hk.

Darren :是啊,我在節目記錄裏都有。很明顯,我會把你剛才說的都包括進去。我想感謝你抽出時間。我相信很多看這個節目的人都會欣賞你的洞察力,因為就像,即使是你之前說的很多話,也和我們的其他客人不一樣。你非常詳細地向人們解釋,真的很想讓他們明白發生了什麼,所以我希望你以後會回來參加第二輪,然後再次回來,謝謝你的時間。

Urosh:這絕對是我的榮幸,我期待著下一次我們能够就一個也許更具體的話題進行演講。

Darren :是的,當然。好吧,非常感謝。

Urosh:我的榮幸。非常感謝你。快說。再見。



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Featured on am730: The lack of information in overseas real estate investing and how to solve it

Original post on [In Chinese]: https://www.am730.com.hk/column/Workplace/%e7%b5%82%e6%a5%b5%e6%b5%b7%e5%a4%96%e7%89%a9%e6%a5%ad%e6%8a%95%e8%b3%87%e6%8c%87%e5%8d%97-232085

The lack of information in overseas real estate investing and how to solve it

Despite being affected by the corona virus outbreak and the increased social distancing restrictions, Hong Kong investors continue to look for overseas real estate investment opportunities vigorously. This growing demand is not going away anytime soon.

In 2019, Singapore held over 230 overseas property exhibits and Kuala Lumpur featured 118 exhibitions. Shockingly, a report published by Soho App found that Hong Kong hosted over 1,626 overseas property exhibitions in 2019 (an average of more than 31 every week)! The unprecedented amount of exhibitions in Hong Kong clearly show the Hong Kong investors’ desire for overseas properties has become a necessity instead of just an investment tool or an immigration tool for asset allocation. In this period of uncertainty, Hong Kong people are more inquired about emigration and homeownership overseas. It is critical to ask,  “can I trust the sources handed to me?” If research is not done thoroughly, investments might not turn out as expected. 

Especially for busy people, looking for overseas real estate opportunities is very troublesome. Conducting research and due diligence take a lot of time and effort to ensure the information is reliable. Besides knowing who is trustworthy (such as real estate agents and the developers), every investor has many worries, uncertainties, and questions while looking for the right properties for them. “Should I look into the Malaysian real estate market or the Vietnam real estate market?” “What taxes do I have to pay if I want to invest in the United Kingdom?” “Where is the best place for me to buy a second home in Canada?” and many more. Even professional investors have a tough time finding trustworthy information in real estate! These enormous pains need to be solved. This is where technology can help to transform the industry.

PropTech (Property Technology) is a new global movement that uses technology to create new opportunities in real estate. By utilizing PropTech, investors can get more information, tips, and insights by gaining direct access to a community of industry experts when searching for their real estate investment – saving time and effort when sourcing information and conducting due diligence. With experts’ knowledge and insights, investors can make better-informed decisions like never before. According to the KPMG Global PropTech Survey, 86% of real estate leaders agree that PropTech brings more opportunities for investments through more accurate predictions and reliable information. Getting investors closer to experts can unlock their full potential and succeed in real estate investments – both locally and abroad.

Denzity (https://www.denzity.io/), a PropTech Hong Kong startup, is a free online resource for investors to learn, network, and find solutions for their overseas real estate investment search by gaining access to a global real estate community of industry experts. By utilizing the technology of the platform, investors can broadcast their questions related to overseas real estate investing to the community. Then, they can get answers directly from real estate experts of the right domain expertise (such as professional real estate agents, developers, world-class investors, advisors and more). By bringing investors closer to experts worldwide, Denzity helps investors to get a better sense of  where to invest, what to invest, and how to invest in real estate – saving time while gaining better insights. The more you know, the less fear you’ll have to look for the right property.

終極海外物業投資指南

全球冠狀病毒爆發和社交距離限制不斷增加,但仍然無阻香港買家尋找海外物業投資的機會,而這需求更向著有增無減的方向進發。

在2019年,新加坡及馬來西亞分別舉行了超過230場及118場的海外物業展銷會;反觀香港,根據蘇豪應用程式(Soho App)顯示,香港同年竟然舉行高達1626場海外物業展覽會,相當於每星期31場!歷史新高的數據清晰反映香港買家不再視購買海外房地產為投資工具,或為移民而安排的資產配資工具,而是他們真正有海外置業的需求。在這嚴峻時期,香港人對移民與海外置業需求殷切。在置業過程中,買家必須經常提出這個問題:「我獲得的資訊可信嗎?」「如果事前沒有做足研究,投資回報會否不符預期?」

忙碌的上班族在搜尋海外房產投資機會特別困難。研究和盡職審查花去大量時間與精力以獲取可信的資料。過程中,除了要了解中介如地產經紀和承建商是否可信外,買家都有不同的擔憂、困擾與問題。「我應該研究馬來西亞還是越南地產市場呢?」「如果我想投資英國的房產,需要繳付那些稅呢?」「如果我想在加拿大買房子,哪裡才是最佳地點呢?」等等。即使是專業投資者,在搜尋可信賴的房產資訊時,都會遇上困難。這些痛點必須解決,而科技就能夠改變這個市場。

Proptech (Property Technology, 房地產科技)是通過運用科技,在房產市場創造新投資機會的一個全新全球運動。運用房產科技後,買家可省去不少時間和精神,便可直接聯繫行業專家的圈子,獲取更多資料、貼士及遠景,以進行盡職審查。有了專家的真知灼見,買家便可以作出最佳決定。根據KPMG全球房產科技調查,86%的房產領袖同意,通過房產科技通提供的準確預測與可靠資訊,能夠為買家帶來更多機會。一旦買家和行業專家連接上,就能夠在本地及海外市場釋放所有投資的潛力。

Denzity (https://www.denzity.io/)是一家香港房產初創公司,為買家提供學習、聯絡和解答海外房產投資疑問的免費網上資訊平台。通過運用平台上的科技,投資者可以提出有關海外房產投資的疑問,然後會有專業的房產投資員(如專業房產經紀、承建商、頂尖投資員、顧問等)解答。通過連結你和全球的專業人士,Denzity讓買家更知道自己想投資什麼、投資哪裡,以及怎麼投資。既省時,又能獲得更好的意見,認清需要,無懼投資風險。

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Denzity Insights Transcript: Real Estate Tokenization: Everything You Need To Know with Jason Chan


Real Estate Tokenization: Everything You Need To Know with Jason Chan

Connect with Jason:

Website: https://www.sidley.com/en/people/c/chan-jason

LinkedIn: https://hk.linkedin.com/in/jasonchanch

Email: Jason.chan@sidley.com

Real estate tokenization has been a popular topic in the real estate sector. It can potentially be a new medium by which everyday investors can overcome the traditional barriers to enter the real estate market.

In this episode, Jason provides an in-depth overview of how real estate tokenization works.

Jason Chan is an associate in the funds and financial regulatory team in Sidley Austin Hong Kong. He focuses on investment funds formation transactions, including real estate funds and tokenized funds, as well as a diverse range of financial regulatory matters related to funding managers and Fintech companies. Notably, his team worked on Asia’s first tokenized fund.

  • What is Real Estate Tokenization?
  • What are the pros and cons of tokenization?
  • What are the things to be aware of?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

This might be painfully obvious – Please note the following legal conditions:

Denzity owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Denzity’s video programs and publications (collectively referred to as “Denzity Materials”, with all rights reserved and its right of publicity.

You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, New York Times), on your website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium and WordPress), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Denzity” and link back to the denzity.io/blog URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.

No one is authorized to copy any portion of the Denzity Materials or use Denzity’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.

===

Terminology & Source:

Security Token Offering: While both STOs and ICOs have the same process of making an offer of tokens or cryptocurrencies to the public, STO is more secure because the platforms need to abide by the laws and regulations, guaranteeing security.

https://cointelegraph.com/explained/what-is-an-sto-explained

Real Estate Security Token Offering: STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets.

Initial Coin Offering: Initial coin offering is the process in which cryptocurrencies are sold for a limited period of time in order to raise funds for a project.

Tokenized funds: Tokenized funds are capital funds that have been tokenized with the use of blockchain technology.

https://crypto.bi/tape/tokenized-funds/

Crowdfunding: Crowdfunding is the way in which a new business or organization reach their target amount by collecting small amounts of money from a large number of individuals in return for a profit or some benefit. It typically takes place on the internet.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/crowdfunding–what-you-need-to-know

Real Estate Crowdfunding: Real Estate Crowdfunding is when real estate firms collect capitals by crowdfunding. It allows investors to become a shareholder of the property by spending only a little amount of money and without going through the hassle of any middleman. For companies, it’s an easy way to raise a handsome capital which would otherwise be difficult to extort.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100214/what-real-estate-crowdfunding.asp

Real Estate Peer To Peer Lending: Real Estate P2P enables borrowers to borrow money for real estate projects, directly from the investors or lenders without having a bank involved. The investors can own a small share in the invested property and get a good percentage of annual return.

https://www.fool.com/millionacres/real-estate-financing/real-estate-101-what-peer-peer-lending/

Peer to Peer Lending: Commonly known as P2P, peer to peer lending platforms connect investors to parties who are looking for a loan without going through any traditional financial institution such as a bank or a middleman.

https://www.lendingworks.co.uk/finance-guides/p2p-lending/what-is-peer-to-peer-lending

Digital security: Digital security tools let you keep all your online info protected from an intruder. The protected items can be anything starting from your personal info to your banking info, and even the software you use.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of blockchain technology is designed as such so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

https://www.euromoney.com/learning/blockchain-explained/what-is-blockchain

Distributed ledger: Unlike blockchain, the records within a distributed ledger do not have to be in blocks or in chains. This database can replicate and share data across the world and without having a central administrator. A blockchain is a form of Distributed Ledger Technology(DLT).

https://tradeix.com/distributed-ledger-technology/

Fractionalization: Fractionalization refers to the concept of having shared ownership of the same asset or property, as well as splitting the benefit as per the ownership amount that comes out of the property.

https://www.r3.com/blog/asset-fractionalisation%E2%80%8A-%E2%80%8Awhat-why-and-the-future/

Smart contract: Smart Contract computer programs ease the process of digitally verifying different bits of a contract. It does not require a middleman and is comparatively inexpensive and time-efficient.

https://blockgeeks.com/guides/smart-contracts/

Securities & Futures Commission Of Hong Kong: SFC is responsible for maintaining and securing the future industry by promoting market regulations.

https://www.sfc.hk/web/EN/index.html

SFC Type 1 License: Dealing in securities. Examples: Trading /broking stock options for clients,

trading bonds for clients, buying / selling mutual funds and unit trusts for clients, placing and underwriting of securities.

https://www.sfc.hk/web/EN/regulatory-functions/intermediaries/licensing/guide-to-licence-application/regulated-activities.html

Singapore Regulatory Authority MAS: MAS works as Singapore’s central bank as well as its financial regulatory authority.

https://www.mas.gov.sg

Real Estate Tokenization Whitepaper:

https://sites-sidley.vuturevx.com/133/9330/upload-folder/real-estate-tokenization-v006.pdf


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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Darren: Hey, Jason, how’s it going?

Jason: Good. How are you? 

Darren: Good. You know, as I said just now it’s like, very hectic. But you know, this is important because a lot of people, obviously have a lot of question with real estate STO, STO as a whole. And I’m sure someone like you will give people a better idea of what exactly is going on and down with the technicality behind that. So people who doesn’t know who you are, would you mind telling them what you do and the work that you’re working on?

Jason: Yeah, sure. So I’m Jason Chan. I’m an Associate at Sidley Austin, focusing on funds and financial regulatory. So my practice focuses on investments on formation transactions, which includes real estate funds, of course, and tokenized funds, as well as a diverse range of financial regulatory matters related to fund managers and FinTech companies. So my team has worked on Asia’s first tokenized fund and we’ve also recently assisted a client in launching their tokenized quants, hedge fund investing in currency.

Darren: I see. So for people who doesn’t understand about the whole question of ownership segment, right, what does real estate tokenization mean and how is it different than like real estate, crowdfunding or real estate peer to peer?

Jason: Yeah so in short, tokenization generally means moving traditional non-digital securities to a digital form using the blockchain technology and real estate tokenization specifically means that enabling investments in the form of digital tokens backed by real estate in the real world. So, these tokens can represent either equity that economic interest or revenue stream generated from the real estate asset. At the core of tokenization is as I mentioned, blockchain technology which is a type of distributed ledger where you secure identical copies of data across a network of authorized stakeholders, and we can leverage the secure immutable policies of blockchain technology for the tokenization, which can facilitate additional fractional ownership with secure transaction records and also very quick settlement process. So there are a few kind of like advantages of tokenization which includes like fractionalization, which lowers the barriers of entry for investments, operational efficiency, data transparency and most importantly for most of the investor, liquidity. So, I mean, like in terms of difference between real estate crowdfunding and real estate tokenization, while both of them allow for fractionalization of traditionally big ticket investments such as real estate, it lowers the the barriers of entry and also democratize the whole access of real estate asset. So the main differences between the two are basically threefold. So first of all, unlike tokenized real estate, there’s no liquidity in real estate crowdfunding. So investors are often unable to treat these investments on the secondary market and there’s no exit option for investors. So, for tokenized real estate, you can, the investors can often trade these tokens with directly b2b to other investors or they can trade some of them when they are listed in an exchange, they can trade it on an exchange. Second of all, real estate crowdfunding does not provide for the operational efficiency enjoyed by tokenization via the use of blockchain technology. For example, the blockchain technology can allow you to use smart contract for automation for certain compliances and also post issuance process, such as dividend distribution. And thirdly, Real Estate Crowdfunding is usually just simply crowdfunding of equity of that interest in rate estate. But for tokenization, you can basically tokenize anything like it can be other aspects of real estate such as revenue stream and also economic economic interest from real estate assets. 

Darren: So it sounds like the real estate security token offering is actually like a 2.0 crowdfunding then, am I correct? 

Jason: Yeah, yes, basically. 

Darren: Yeah. I see. So what are the key elements to make a real estate tokenization work? 

Jason: Yeah, so other than, of course, the real estate asset itself, and also the asset owner. The other elements are all key players in real estate. Tokenization includes, of course, the technology platform provider, which is like the guide who actually knows the blockchain and provides the technology platform so you can move the interests of the real estate onto the blockchain. So that’s, of course the most fundamental thing and of course, I’m a lawyer so I’m going to say a lawyer is a key thing in real estate. 

Darren: Just don’t forget that.

Jason: Yeah, yeah. Never forget that. It’s very important to ensure that legal documentation reflects the commercial intention of the investors and also the issuer. Administrators are also very important, they handle all the administrative methods, which are really annoying, such as the registered members subscription and etc. Tech advisor, they provide very good advice as to how to structure it the most tech efficient way, or the security token issuance. And finally, of course, because it’s dealing with real estate, we need a real estate valuer. Who can value the underlying real estate asset for the issuer.

Darren: Well, you know, I’ve been hearing about real estate tokenization for many, many years, but it doesn’t seem like the industry has much, you know, cases or things that are going on. What’s the reason behind that? Or I’m sleeping under a rock, like, I just want to know what’s going on there. 

Jason: Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. So there hasn’t been a whole lot of real estate tokenization. There are a few outside of Asia but those are mostly very small projects and also usually for very private investors. So, I think the main two main reasons for real estate tokenization not being as popular as it should be is first of all, the incomplete ecosystem and infrastructure. So, generally speaking the tokenization ecosystem and infrastructure globally I think is not fully developed yet. This may be due to just very unclear restrictive laws and regulations, it can be a lack of expertise or talent or simply that there is insufficient amount of players in the market due to a lack of interest or interest in the new industry because the whole blockchain and tokenization industry is relatively new. So, a lot of things are still being developed. Second of all, I think that there’s currently a lack of investor or financial industry players interested and confident. So, larger traditional institutional investors, and financial industry players, I’m not exactly comfortable with the concept of security tokens, nor blockchain so that they’re still very skeptical about anything that’s blockchain, anything that’s related to cryptocurrency. However, during these months, especially, I think they are absurd trying to offset the market and there has been more interest from in-q incumbent financial industry players, more high net worth individuals, family offices, and also tech companies who are getting into the scene.

Darren: I see, yeah, I was gonna ask you too because we’re like recovering from COVID and the recession. Does Covid help or worsen the tokenization potential?

Jason: Yeah, I think it actually does help speed up the whole interest in adaptation of real estate tokenization. So I think there are two reasons. So first of all, because economic activities are slowing down these days, asset managers and investors have more time to explore new ways they can manage their investments, with more flexibility. And one of the options out there being tokenization. So everyone kind of like, has more time to actually not do the deals and actually look at new ways of doing deals. And more importantly, I think during the economic downturn, many investors are looking for exit option for the investments, but they’re not able to do so at the moment because of the illiquid nature of their of certain investments such as, like, if they invest in private equity fund real estate or real estate funds they have a long lockup period or they can only usually withdraw when it’s the end of the term of the fund. So now they are looking at ways where they’re resisting ways that they can easily exit and build the interest, the investment in the future. And organization is definitely one of the more attractive options available.

Darren: I see. So going back to one of the questions I just asked you, and you kind of covered it, right. You know, how you talk about, like, a lot of investors are not looking at it yet, and a lot of players are missing. So it’s not only today, it’s like a three, four things are missing. So in your point of view, how is the ecosystem of tokenization at the moment? What else is missing? And what kind of parties are involved in order to make everything happen?

Jason: Yeah, so I think for the time being, like, as I mentioned, the ecosystem infrastructure of real estate tokenization, it’s really at its early stage and is far from complete or mature like a traditional counter, like financial counterparts. For example, in Hong Kong, there’s yet to be a regulator or licensed asset trading platform approved by the Hong Kong securities regulator, so the SMC. And in Singapore, the regulator approves traditional trading platforms backed by the Singaporean government. But generally there’s a lack of interest in security token issuance. So, I mean, like in different jurisdiction, they do different things. And I think, also, like many market players are still warming up to this relatively new technology and way or fundraising. In terms of the parties getting involved in order to list the project, I mean, in addition to that, the few that I mentioned just now like the technology platform lawyer, administrator, tech advisor, and real estate, valuer, I think, of course, the most important thing is the investor. So the investor needs to be interested in order for people to stop thinking about issuance of real estate tokens, and that’s the main driver for I mean, like money is the main driver for most businesses. So, yeah, I think that’s still kind of missing at the moment.

Darren: I see. So all of that right, obviously, followup this debt, you know, where are we at in Hong Kong with the RESTO, you know, there is a security token offering. And then, Sharif, is there any projects going on? Or should we see any product listings coming up soon?

Jason: Yeah, so in Hong Kong, so I’ll cover basically Hong Kong and Singapore because we recently issued a report covering those two jurisdictions. So in Hong Kong, we are seeing that tokenization and virtual asset ecosystem are trying to get more established anyway, and more market players are following us in this space. So in terms of the regulatory environment, it’s getting clearer because the SFC is giving quite a bit of guidance generally, and they have been granting licenses to my managers who manages cryptocurrency and security tokens, so we anticipate that the SFC will soon, sometime this year grab their first virtual asset trading platform license across which hopefully, fingers crossed, hopefully make the ecosystem more complete and more welcoming to the asset owners looking to tokenization because ultimately, the promise of tokenization is increasing liquidity, right. So then no trading platform doing ads, investors won’t be comfortable enough to get into the tokenization market. And if there’s no investors, as I mentioned, there’ll be no asset owner who wants to tokenize the asset. So ultimately, if the infrastructure is built in Hong Kong, that there is a trading platform, it will help a lot. And in Singapore, we’re seeing that as I mentioned, we think that the Singapore Regulatory Authority MAS has already approved two government backed security token exchanges. And so the network is, in a sense more mature than that of Hong Kong. And that said, we’re actually seeing less security token offering in Singapore at this age when compared to Hong Kong. It’s kind of weird. So I’m guessing that perhaps market players in the Southeast Asian countries are still warming up to this new way of raising. That said, because the government is trying to push for Singapore to be the Asian FinTech hub. I think we will definitely see more tokenization projects coming in the next 12 to 18 months. And in terms of opportunities, I think a lot of traditional financial institutions are still looking into tokenization but not really fully dived into this market. So we’re seeing more newer and smaller market players who will take this opportunity to have trial basis whole industry and gain a first mover advantage over the incumbent bigger players in the financial and real estate market. For example, like there are usually smaller projects, which they serve as test case for them to show that investors that oh actually it works, and also for them to kind of figure out and smooth out all the operational and practical problems before they go to the bigger market and tell all their existing investors, “Hey, like we have this tokenization project, which is huge and you should be part of it.” So, I think this will take some time. And also like all these players will have to give a bit more investment into  these kind of projects before they can actually grow the market and also it will be a very steep learning process for all the markets.

Darren: I see, Well for Denzity, right, we hope that people are participating in more real estate investing. So when you talk about this whole thing, in my head I was like, “I really wish this happened because it takes only one or two people like the lawyers obviously and all the different regulatory, when combined together to make this happen.” It’s like a community though, you know, you have to push forward. So, with that, right, what are some things that an investor should keep in mind when it comes to really tokenization?

Jason: Yeah, so as a lawyer, I’m going to talk about regulations, right. So from a regulatory point of view, definitely, globally speaking, like regulatory regimes surrounding tokenization it’s very difficult now, difficult to navigate, especially for newer players in the financial industry, if they are from a technology background. So for those who are in the finance industry, that are usually more used to being regulated by securities regulators, but for tech industry players, they usually come free and do whatever they want. So if they want to do it a proper way and they want to get on board, some bigger financial institutions on board, they will have to navigate the securities related regulations before they actually kick start a project. So please seek proper legal and regulatory advice as a lawyer. Jokes aside, yes, that’s that’s actually very important because we do see securities regulators take enforcement actions against non compliant projects, especially if they’re very public. So on an operational level because we have assisted clients and doing that tokenization project recently. So from experience, because blockchain and digital assets are newly introduced in this world of asset management, there’s no like established standard or modus operandi as to the responsibilities and industry standards for party service providers, such as administrator, custodian, technology service providers. So there are situations from our experience where they’re engaged and only a very late stage of the tokenization and the asset owner or the Manage fund manager finds out in the very last minute that the service provider is actually not able to accommodate any proposed arrangements. So we have to change all the documentation, we have to figure out all the mechanism so there’s no it’s no standards, so they don’t know what standard to meet in a sense. So I mean, it’s logistically, from an operational perspective, I think when doing a tokenization project, these service providers need to be engaged at a very, very early stage of tokenization and the documenting.

Darren: I see. So like, for the past two years, right, are there any type of cases like in 2019, 2020 that are successful?

Jason: Yeah. So, we are globally speaking we are lucky, we see a lot of success case organization generally. And, it covers all types of assets, any types of asset you think you can think of, that are traditionally illiquid or big ticket So, such as art and of course real estate, private equity and other exotic asset classes or commodities. So in addition to tokenization of a single piece of asset for example, a single piece of land or single piece of art, more recently, we are actually seeing more interest in tokenization of funds and state funds so we have recently helped our client launch a tokenized actively manage quant fund, which features cryptocurrency as one of the asset classes. So, if you want more details definitely contact us and, and let us know if you’re interested. So, I mean in terms of these project size of these success cases, we know that there are usually at this stage relatively small. For Example, it’s still kind of like one asset, a small piece of asset and with very few investors and generally just a generally smaller scale fundraise.  Projects are usually done by the manager or the asset owner as a proof of contact or communicate. So for them to kind of figure out all the operational and logistical aspects before they go on to do bigger projects.

Darren: So what type of landlords or estate owners should or should not participate in real estate tokenization.

Jason: Okay, to me, all asset owners should at least consider tokenization because we do anticipate that it will become increasingly popular. As I mentioned, there’s a lot of benefits to tokenization and investors are looking into it. So they will eventually, some of them will eventually demand tokenization as part of their term for investments. So like, if you are a real estate owner, at least kind of know what it is and think and put it at the back of your mind. Because in case someone asks you, oh, can we tokenize this because I want liquidity for my investment and in the future, at least you know what it is and you can talk to the relevant people, for example, my book are also the liquify. And with that said I mean, like the asset owners should consider how they can structure that tokenization project. So whether it’s a single project single asset fund, a multi projects fund blind pool or do they only tokenize their equity or beneficial ownership or economic interests are just a revenue stream. So things like what kind of interests of the real estate asset they should tokenize and when doing this, they have to bear in mind of their specific business operation and management strategy. So, if you don’t want any management decision, maybe when tokenizing you should put some of the management account faulting into the tokens that you issue. If you want to retain the management then maybe you should only tokenize the economic interest. If you want to still retain the ownership then you should only perhaps tokenize the revenue stream or tokenized asset, as opposed to the equity or the economic interest. 

Darren: That’s cool. This is a lot of things to digest. And, you know, I’m still learning about it. So for firms that want to participate in real estate tokenization what do they need to have?

Jason: Yep. So I mean, as I mentioned just now for folks who want to participate in the real estate tokenization as these tokens are usually considered a security in most jurisdictions, at least most of the popular jurisdictions, they will have to comply with the local securities laws and regulations. And perhaps in those jurisdictions, they might have this virtual assets specific rules and regulations. So, for example, in Hong Kong, if the Fed wants to market or distribute a security tokens, it will have to obtain a type 1 license with the SFC or find a type 1 license who’s registered with the SFC as well as notify the SFC. As well as the licensee, they have to notify the SFC office plan to distribute security token. And for example, if you want to become a virtual asset trading platform trading security tokens of real estate, then the SFC has also issued licensing terms and conditions for these operators locked back in last year, which sets out some eligibility and regulatory requirements for security token exchange to operate in Hong Kong all for Hong Kong person. So, and also for Asset Management, asset managers who manages funds with exposure to virtual assets, depending on the level of their exposure to these virtual assets, they might also have to notify the SFC of such investments and comply with the relevant virtual asset managers specific terms and conditions. So basically, you have as a lawyer we always have to remind you to be compliant and think about the regulatory issues before you go on to pursue a project. 

Darren: No, like, I feel like for the past, like 20, I don’t know how long we’ve done maybe 20 minutes. It’s like this one lecture in university, but it is so much more fun and engaging and there’s a lot that’s interesting. Oh, yes, I feel like that and obviously that’s what we hope with this whole Denzity insights channel. It’s that people can have more engaging learning same time is that you’re someone who has the credentials to do that. You know, you’re not just someone on the internet. So on a personal note, right, it’s something that I’m just curious to know more about and how you think about it, right? How do you feel about learning this whole industry? Because I don’t know what you have done, what kind of like field you’re in or what kind of sector you were in before. But how do you feel after learning all that and how do you feel about the future of this whole, you know, real estate STO potential?

Jason: Yeah, so I think because the benefits are quite obvious to many investors, I think many larger players are really looking into it and some of them are asking us about the regulatory framework, as well as the commercial aspects of these real estate STO so I think they’re really thinking about it when they are doing future projects. Maybe they won’t really deep dive at this very moment considering all the factors and economic downturn but in the future, they would definitely get into it and I see like, generally speaking the blockchain industry, many of the larger financial players are getting into the game for example, modality and also like northern trust, they are getting into the virtual asset custody business. So I mean, like they’re getting serious about it and we do see a lot of institutional investors looking at virtual assets as a viable and also not reliable but one of the future asset classes that they look to have exposure in so I think it’s a good time to start learning about real estate tokenization because it will become popular I think and I do think the ecosystem will be mature enough in the future for this serious kind of investment by institutional and financial investor.

Darren: That’s kind of cool. I mean, again, hoping for ASAP. So, what kind of takeaway do you want the audience to have with this video?

Jason: Yeah, so I think five main takeaways is a bit much but it’s fine. So first of all, advantages of tokenization, which includes lowering variable acts of entry for investments, operational efficiency, data transparency and most importantly liquidity, which is very important to investors. Second point the ecosystem and infrastructure of real estate organization is still at its very early age. And as it has to be mature enough for serious industry players to join. Third point, marketing players are warming up to this new way of amazing and the regulatory environment is getting clearer and investors are considering tokenization as an attractive potential exit option. Fourth point being, as traditional financial institution are not yet dived into this market, new and smaller market players should take into account this opportunity to trailblaze the industry and gain the best mover advantage. And lastly, it’s a sales pitch. So we had one of the agents first tokenized fund and we have recently assisted a client in launching a tokenized quant fund investing in cryptocurrency. So find us if you have any questions about tokenization.

Darren: I mean, everything falls under that one takeaway. But then how do people find you, what some ways that you would suggest people to reach out to you and learn more about it?

Jason: Yep. So if you’re interested in knowing more about real estate tokenization, tokenization generally, or just want to see how we can help with your tokenization project, you can reach out to me by email at Jason.Chen@sidley.com. You can also read about tokenized Real Estate tokenization in a report that we have co authored with Liquefy, Colliers, and KPMG. And I think we can provide you with a link somewhere afterwards. 

Darren: Yeah, that’s cool. That’s good. And then I think that that’s something that like even this whole interview, there’s a lot things I didn’t digest, and then I just want to say thanks for your time because you know, it is something that I am really looking forward to and it’s good to have an update on that. So someone with a professional background like yourself, just to know more about what’s going on, it’s an exciting time it’s still wild west, you know? So kind of cool.

Jason: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so inviting me to this.

Darren: I just want the audience to know more about what’s going on out there. And yeah, so let’s try again next time and again, thanks a lot. And then maybe we can do a longer form next time with updates. That’d be great.

Jason: Yeah, sure. Sure.Thank you very much.

Darren: Thank you. Have a good one then.

Jason: Thank you. Yeah, you too. 

Darren: Bye bye.

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Darren :嘿,Jason,最近怎麼樣?

Jason:很好。你好嗎?

Darren :很好。你知道,就像我剛才說的,很忙。但你要知道,這很重要,因為很多人顯然對房地產STO有很多疑問。更好的瞭解,到底發生了什麼,以及背後的技術性問題。對於那些不知道你是誰的人,你介不介意告訴他們你正在做的工作呢?

Jason:是的,當然。所以我叫Jason Chan。我是Sidley Austin的助理,專注於基金和金融監管。囙此,我的業務集中在對資訊交易的投資上,其中當然包括房地產基金和標記化基金,以及與基金經理和金融科技公司相關的各種金融監管事項。囙此,我的團隊一直致力於亞洲第一隻代幣化基金的開發,最近我們還協助一比特客戶推出了他們的標記化基金,即對沖基金投資於貨幣。

Darren :我明白了。囙此,對於那些不瞭解所有權部分整個問題的人來說,房地產標記化意味著什麼?它與房地產、眾籌或房地產對等交易有什麼不同?

Jason:簡言之,代幣化通常意味著使用區塊鏈科技將傳統的非數位證券轉換為數位形式,而房地產代幣化特別意味著能够在現實世界中以房地產支持的數位代幣形式進行投資。囙此,這些代幣既可以代表經濟利益的權益,也可以代表房地產資產產生的收入流。如我所述,權杖化的覈心是區塊鏈科技,它是一種分佈式帳本,您可以通過授權的利益相關者網絡保護相同的數據副本,我們可以利用區塊鏈科技的安全不變策略進行標記化,這可以促進額外的部分所有權安全的交易記錄和快速的結算過程。囙此,代幣化有一些類似的優勢,包括類似的分拆,它降低了投資的進入壁壘、運營效率、數據透明度,對大多數投資者來說最重要的是流動性。所以,我的意思是,就像房地產眾籌和房地產代幣化之間的區別一樣,雖然這兩種方式都允許對房地產等傳統的大額投資進行分拆,但這降低了進入壁壘,也使房地產資產的整體准入民主化。所以兩者之間的主要區別基本上是三方面的。首先,與標記化房地產不同,房地產眾籌沒有流動性。囙此,投資者通常無法在次級市場上處理這些投資,投資者也沒有退出的選擇。囙此,對於代幣化的房地產,你可以,投資者通常可以直接通過b2b交易給其他投資者,或者他們可以在交易所上市時交易其中一些代幣,他們可以在交易所交易。其次,房地產眾籌並沒有提供通過使用區塊鏈科技的權杖化所帶來的運營效率。例如,區塊鏈科技可以讓您使用智慧合約來實現某些合規性的自動化,以及發行後的流程,如股息分配。第三,房地產眾籌通常只是對利率房地產權益的眾籌。但是對於標記化,你基本上可以標記化任何東西,比如房地產的其他方面,比如收入流和來自房地產資產的經濟利益。

聽起來像是一個代幣,所以我提供的是一個代幣,所以實際上是一個代幣?

Jason:是的,是的,基本上。

Darren :是的。我懂了。那麼,讓房地產標記化工作的關鍵要素是什麼?

Jason:是的,當然,除了房地產資產本身,還有資產所有者。其他因素都是房地產領域的關鍵人物。當然,標記化包括科技平臺提供商,這就像真正瞭解區塊鏈並提供科技平臺的指南,以便您可以將房地產的利益轉移到區塊鏈上。這是最基本的,當然,我是律師,所以我要說,律師是房地產的關鍵。

Darren :別忘了。

Jason:是的,是的。別忘了。確保法律檔反映投資者和發行人的商業意圖是非常重要的。管理員也是非常重要的,他們處理所有令人討厭的管理方法,關於如何以最具科技效率的管道構建,或安全權杖發行,提供了非常好的建議。最後,當然,因為這是房地產,我們需要一個房地產估價師。誰可以為發行人評估基礎房地產資產。

Darren :好吧,你知道,我聽說房地產標記化已經很多很多年了,但是這個行業似乎沒有太多,你知道,案例或事情正在發生。這背後的原因是什麼?或者我睡在石頭下麵,就像,我只想知道那裡發生了什麼。

Jason:是的,你說得對。你說得對。囙此,房地產標記化的現象並不多見。亞洲以外也有一些但這些項目大多是非常小的項目,而且通常針對非常獨家投資者。囙此,我想房地產標記化不如它受歡迎的兩個主要原因首先應該是生態系統和基礎設施不完善。所以,一般來說,標記化生態系統和基礎設施在全球範圍內,我認為還沒有完全發展。這可能是由於限制性法律法規非常不明確,也可能是缺乏專業知識或人才或僅僅是因為對新事物缺乏興趣或興趣,市場上的玩家數量不足行業,因為整個區塊鏈和標記化行業相對較新。所以,很多東西還在開發中。第二個總之,我認為現時缺乏投資者或金融行業參與者的興趣和信心。囙此,對於規模較大的傳統機構投資者和金融行業參與者,我並不完全認同安全代幣的概念,也區塊鏈使得他們對任何屬於區塊鏈的東西,任何與加密貨幣有關的東西都非常懷疑。然而,在這期間尤其是幾個月,我認為它們試圖抵消市場的影響是荒謬的,而且來自現任財務部門的興趣更大行業參與者、更多的高淨值人士、家族理財辦公室,以及[00:07:50]進入這一領域的科技公司。

Darren :我明白了,是的,我也要問你,因為我們就像從科維德和經濟衰退中恢復一樣。Covid是否有助於或惡化標記化的潜力?

Jason:是的,我認為這確實有助於加快人們對房地產標記化適應的興趣。所以我認為有兩個原因。囙此,首先,由於現時的經濟活動正在放緩,資產管理公司和投資者有更多的時間來探索新的投資管理管道,並具有更大的靈活性。其中一個選擇就是標記化。所以每個人都有更多的時間不去做交易,去尋找新的交易方式。更重要的是,我認為在經濟低迷時期,很多投資者都在尋找投資的退出選擇權,但由於某些投資的非流動性,比如,如果他們投資於私募股權基金房地產或房地產基金,他們的鎖定期很長,或者他們通常只能在基金期限結束時退出。囙此,現在他們正在尋找他們抵制的方法,他們可以很容易地退出並建立利益,未來的投資。組織無疑是更具吸引力的選擇之一。

Darren :我明白了。回到我剛才問過你的一個問題,你也有點掩飾了,對吧。你知道,你是怎麼說的,比如說,很多投資者還沒有看到它,很多球員都失踪了。所以不僅僅是今天,就像三、四樣東西不見了。那麼在你看來,現時標記化的生態系統如何?還缺什麼?為了讓一切發生,有什麼樣的當事人參與?

Jason:是的,所以我認為就現時而言,就像我提到的,房地產代幣化的生態系統基礎設施,它還處於早期階段,遠沒有像傳統的櫃檯那樣,像金融同行那樣,完全成熟。例如,在香港,還沒有一個由香港證券監管機构準予的監管機构或持牌資產交易平臺,囙此SMC。在新加坡,監管機构準予新加坡政府支持的傳統交易平臺。但一般來說,人們對發行安全代幣缺乏興趣。所以,我的意思是,就像在不同的司法管轄區,他們做不同的事情。而且我認為,和許多市場參與者一樣,仍然對這種相對較新的科技、管道或籌資方式有所升溫。就項目上市所涉及的各方而言,我的意思是,除此之外,我剛才提到的少數幾個人,如科技平臺律師、管理員、技術顧問和房地產估價師,我認為,當然,最重要的是投資者。囙此,投資者需要對房地產代幣的發行產生興趣,這是我的意思是,像錢是大多數企業的主要驅動力一樣,這是主要的驅動力。所以,是的,我覺得現在還沒找到。

Darren :我明白了。很明顯,所有這些都是正確的,你知道的,我們在香港的回報是什麼,你知道嗎知道,這裡有一個安全代幣。然後,有什麼項目在進行嗎?或者我們是否應該很快看到產品清單?

Jason:是的,所以在香港[00:11:30]我基本上會覆蓋香港和新加坡,因為我們最近發佈了一份涵蓋這兩個司法管轄區的報告。所以在香港,我們看到無論如何,代幣化和虛擬資產生態系統正試圖建立更多的市場,更多的市場參與者正在這個領域追隨我們。所以就監管環境而言,情况變得越來越明朗,因為證監會總體上給出了相當多的指導,而且他們一直在發放牌照致我管理加密貨幣和安全代幣的經理們,所以我們預計證監會很快,今年某個時候拿到他們的第一個虛擬資產交易平臺許可證,希望通過它,手指交叉,希望能使生態系統更加完整更歡迎希望標記化的資產所有者,因為最終,標記化的承諾是新增流動性,對。囙此,如果沒有交易平臺做廣告,投資者就不會安心進入代幣化市場。如果沒有投資者,正如我提到的,不會有資產所有者想要將資產標記化。所以最終,如果基礎設施建設在香港,有一個交易平臺,這將有很大幫助。在新加坡,正如我提到的,我們認為新加坡監管局MAS已經準予了兩家政府支持的證券代幣交易所。所以網絡在某種意義上比香港。也就是說,與香港相比,我們實際上看到新加坡在這個年齡段提供的安全代幣更少。有點奇怪。所以我我猜想,也許東南亞國家的市場參與者仍在為這種新的籌資方式熱身。那是說,因為政府正努力推動新加坡成為亞洲金融科技中心。我認為下一步我們肯定會看到更多的標記化項目12到18個月。在機會方面,我認為許多傳統金融機構仍在尋找機會標記化,但並沒有真正深入這個市場。所以我們看到了更多新的和更小的市場參與者誰將以此為契機,在整個行業進行試點,取得先行者優勢金融和房地產市場中更大的參與者。例如,通常有一些較小的項目為他們提供測試案例,以向投資者展示,哦,實際上,這是可行的,同時也讓他們弄清楚並理順所有的操作和在他們進入更大的市場並告訴所有現有的投資者之前,“嘿,就像我們有一個標記化項目,這是一個巨大的項目,你應該參與其中。”所以,我想這需要一些時間。而且就像所有人的都需要付出更多在這些項目能够真正擴大市場之前,投資於這些項目,而且對於所有市場來說,這將是一個非常陡峭的學習過程。

Darren :我明白了,對丹奇蒂來說,我們希望人們參與更多的房地產投資。所以當你談到這件事的時候,在我的腦海裏,我想,“我真的很希望這件事發生,因為這只需要一兩個人,比如律師和所有不同的監管機构,當結合在一起的時候,就可以實現這一點。”這就像一個社區,你知道,你必須向前推進。那麼,有了這些,對吧,投資者在真正進行標記化時應該記住哪些事情?

Jason:是啊,作為一名律師,我要談談規章制度,對吧。囙此,從監管的角度來看,毫無疑問,從全球範圍來看,就像圍繞標記化的監管制度一樣,現在非常困難,很難駕馭,尤其是對於金融行業的新參與者來說,如果他們來自科技背景的話。囙此,對於那些金融行業的人來說,他們通常更習慣於受到證券監管機构的監管,但對於科技行業的參與者來說,他們通常是自由的,想做什麼就做什麼。囙此,如果他們想以一種恰當的管道去做,並且他們想加入一些更大的金融機構,他們就必須在真正啟動一個項目之前,先瞭解證券相關的法規。囙此,作為一名律師,請尋求適當的法律和監管建議。撇開玩笑不談,是的,這實際上非常重要,因為我們確實看到證券監管機构對違規項目採取強制措施,特別是如果這些項目非常公開的話。所以在操作層面上,因為我們最近幫助了客戶並做了標記化項目。囙此,從經驗來看,由於區塊鏈和數位資產是在資產管理領域新引入的,囙此對於管理人、託管人、技術服務提供商等方服務提供者的責任和行業標準,沒有類似的既定標準或操作管道。囙此,根據我們的經驗,有些情况下,他們參與了標記化,而資產所有者或管理基金經理在最後一刻才發現,服務提供者實際上無法接受任何提議的安排。所以我們必須更改所有的檔案,我們必須找出所有的機制,這樣就沒有了標準,所以他們不知道在某種意義上要達到什麼標準。所以我的意思是,從邏輯上講,從操作的角度來看,我認為在做一個標記化項目時,這些服務提供者需要參與到標記化和檔案化的非常非常早期的階段。

Darren :我明白了。比如,在過去的兩年裏,有沒有像2019年、2020年這樣成功的案例?

Jason:是的。所以,我們在全球範圍內是幸運的,我們看到很多成功的案例組織。而且,它涵蓋了所有類型的資產,你認為你能想到的任何類型的資產,傳統上是非流動性的或大票的,比如藝術品,當然還有房地產、私募股權和其他外來資產類別或大宗商品。囙此,除了單個資產(例如,一塊土地或一件藝術品)的標記化之外,最近,我們實際上看到了對基金和國有基金的標記化的更多興趣,囙此我們最近幫助客戶推出了一個標記化的積極管理定量基金,它將加密貨幣作為資產類別之一。所以,如果你想瞭解更多細節,請聯繫我們,如果你感興趣,請告訴我們。所以,我的意思是,就這些項目規模而言,這些成功案例,我們知道,在這個階段通常有相對較小的。例如,它仍然有點像一種資產,一種很小的資產,很少有投資者,通常只是規模較小的籌資活動。項目通常由經理或資產所有者完成,作為聯系或溝通的證據。囙此,在他們繼續做更大的項目之前,他們應該弄清楚所有的運營和後勤方面的問題。

Darren :那麼什麼樣的房東或業主應該或者不應該參與房地產標記化。

Jason:好吧,對我來說,所有資產所有者至少應該考慮標記化,因為我們確實預計它會越來越流行。正如我所提到的,標記化有很多好處,投資者正在研究它。所以他們最終會,其中一些人最終會要求標記化作為他們投資術語的一部分。所以,如果你是一個房地產商,至少要知道它是什麼,然後把它放在腦後。因為萬一有人問你,哦,我們能不能把它標記化,因為我希望我的投資和未來的流動性,至少你知道它是什麼,你可以和相關的人談談,比如,我的書也是liquify。我的意思是,像資產所有者一樣,他們應該考慮如何構建標記化項目。囙此,無論是單項目單資產基金、多項目基金盲池,還是它們只是象徵性地將其股權或受益所有權或經濟利益作為一種收入來源。囙此,諸如房地產資產的哪些利益應該標記化,以及在進行標記化時,他們必須牢記其具體的業務運營和管理策略。囙此,如果您不想做出任何管理決策,那麼在標記化時,您應該將一些管理帳戶錯誤添加到您發行的權杖中。如果你想留住管理層,那麼也許你應該只把經濟利益象徵化。如果你還想保留所有權,那麼你也許只應該標記化收入流或標記化資產,而不是股權或經濟利益。

Darren :那很酷。這有很多事情需要消化。而且,你知道,我還在學習。所以,對於那些想參與房地產標記化的公司來說,他們需要什麼?

Jason:是的。所以我的意思是,正如我剛才提到的那些想參與房地產代幣化的人,因為這些代幣通常被視為大多數司法管轄區的證券,至少在大多數受歡迎的司法管轄區,他們必須遵守當地的證券法律法規。或許在這些司法管轄區,他們可能會有這種虛擬資產的特定規則和條例。囙此,舉例來說,在香港,如果美聯儲想行銷或分銷一種證券代幣,它就必須在香港證監會取得1類牌照,或者找到在證監會注册的1類牌照,並通知證監會。除持牌人外,他們亦須通知證監會辦事處發行證券代幣的計畫。比如說,如果你想成為一個虛擬的資產交易平臺,交易房地產的證券代幣,那麼證監會去年也對這些運營商發佈了許可條款和條件,該條例就證券代幣交易所在香港經營的資格及監管規定,均為香港人。囙此,對於資產管理而言,資產管理公司,即管理有虛擬資產敞口的基金的資產管理人,根據其對這些虛擬資產的敞口水准,他們可能還必須將此類投資通知證監會,並遵守相關虛擬資產管理人的具體條款和條件。所以基本上,作為一名律師,我們總是要提醒你要遵守法律,在你繼續從事一個項目之前,考慮一下監管問題。

Darren :不,好像,我覺得在過去,大概20分鐘,我不知道我們做了多長時間,也許20分鐘。就像大學裏的這節課,但它更有趣,更吸引人,還有很多有趣的東西。哦,是的,我有這種感覺,很明顯這就是我們希望整個Denzity insights頻道能做到的。這是因為人們可以有更具吸引力的學習同時,你是一個有資格這樣做的人。你知道,你不僅僅是網上的人。所以就我個人而言,對吧,我只是好奇地想知道更多,你是怎麼想的,對吧?你對學習整個行業有何感想?因為我不知道你做過什麼,你在什麼樣的領域,或者你以前在什麼行業。但是在瞭解了所有這些之後,你有什麼感覺?你對整個房地產市場的未來有什麼看法?

Jason:是的,所以我認為,因為對很多投資者來說,收益是非常明顯的,我認為很多大的參與者都在研究這個問題,他們中的一些人正在問我們監管框架,以及這些房地產STO的商業方面,所以我認為他們在做未來的項目時確實在考慮這個問題。考慮到所有的因素和經濟衰退,也許他們現在不會真正深入研究,但在未來,他們肯定會投入其中,我看到,一般來說,區塊鏈行業,許多較大的金融參與者正在進入遊戲,例如,形式,也像northern trust,他們正在進入虛擬資產託管業務。所以我的意思是,就像他們開始認真對待這件事一樣,我們確實看到很多機構投資者把虛擬資產視為一種可行的、也不可靠的資產類別,但他們認為這是未來資產類別中的一種,囙此我認為現在是開始學習房地產代幣化的好時機,因為它將變得流行,我想我也一樣對於機构和金融投資者的這種嚴肅的投資,我認為生態系統在未來會足够成熟。

Darren :有點酷。我是說,再次希望儘快。那麼,你希望觀眾對這段視頻有什麼樣的收穫?

Jason:是啊,所以我覺得五個主要的外賣有點多,但沒關係。囙此,首先,代幣化的優勢,包括降低投資的可變進入行為、運營效率、數據透明度以及最重要的流動性,這對投資者非常重要。第二點房地產組織的生態系統和基礎設施仍處於早期階段。因為它必須足够成熟,才能讓嚴肅的行業參與者加入。第三點,市場參與者正在為這一令人驚歎的新管道熱身,監管環境也越來越清晰,投資者正考慮將標記化作為一種有吸引力的潜在退出選擇。第四點是,由於傳統金融機構尚未涉足這一市場,新的和規模較小的市場參與者應考慮到這一機會,開拓該行業,獲得最佳先發優勢。最後,這是一次推銷。囙此,我們有一個代理第一代幣化基金,我們最近幫助一個客戶推出了一個代幣化的量化基金,投資於加密貨幣。如果你對標記化有任何疑問,請聯繫我們。

Darren :我的意思是,所有的東西都屬於那個外賣。但是,人們是如何找到你的,你會建議人們用什麼方法來接觸你並瞭解更多資訊呢?

Jason:是的。囙此,如果您有興趣瞭解更多有關房地產標記化、標記化的一般資訊,或者只是想看看我們如何幫助您完成標記化項目,您可以通過電子郵件聯系我:Jason.Chan@sidley.com網站.您也可以在我們與Liquify、Colliers和KPMG共同撰寫的一份報告中瞭解標記化的房地產標記化。我想我們可以在以後的某個地方給你一個連結。

Darren :是的,那很酷。很好。然後我覺得這就是整個採訪的內容,有很多事情我沒有消化,然後我只想感謝你的時間,因為你知道,這是我非常期待的事情,很高興有一個最新的進展。所以像你這樣有專業背景的人,只是想知道更多的事情發生了,這是一個令人興奮的時刻,它仍然是狂野的西部,你知道嗎?有點酷。

Jason:是的,是的。不管怎樣,邀請我參加。

Darren :我只想讓觀眾更多地瞭解外面的情况。是的,讓我們下次再試一次,非常感謝。也許下次我們可以做一個更長的表格。那太好了。

Jason:是的,當然。當然。謝謝非常感謝你。

Darren :謝謝。那就好好吃一頓吧。

Jason:謝謝。是啊,你也是。

Darren :再見。